The creating various fits on protofits is part of the community feedback phase, and is designed to help Rattati see if there is anything broken at all. I agree with you that I don't like the heavy-handed approach to hardeners. As well, PG/CPU mods don't need as hard of a nerf as Rattati is giving them as much as they need some competition for utility in the low-slots, beyond just armor mods.

New ADV/PRO HAVs may have the same slot-layout, but they have expanded fitting to allow them to fill those slots out. It isn't the same as dropsuit progression, and in my opinion, it's better and should be how the dropsuits are done.

Swarm Launcher is in a...very powerful place right now, and wouldn't need a change, I'm reasonably sure Breakin, Rattati...and frankly anyone who has seen a swarm launcher in action is aware of that. The Forge Gun (Specifically the VFG and BFG...AFG is in a pretty solid place right now, and might only need slight tweaking) however could use a little bit of help...particularly the BFG... and the PLC's AV Capability is laughable outside of a commando platform, and even then it barely does enough to qualify unless you run double PLCs or a Kubo's. So in that sense, the majority of AV needs some sort of buff, but it would be more accurate to say that AV needs a re-balance, and commando potential AV utility needs to be looked at as well but that's a discussion for a separate thread (that has already been made by pokey). (As do LAVs and DSs...LAVs get too much in the way of base stats...need more slots, lower base stats, better Light Modules...DSs need something)


You are correct, spreadsheets assume spherical mercs in a vacuum, and thus aren't going to ever be where final balance is struck. But they are a great starting point to hammer into a correct shape through testing...and we as the Vehicle Operator/AV community should be focusing on the new stats, and looking for any issues that will come up through the course of normal game-play. It's true that we cannot predict everything, but we can get a pretty good idea based on our past experiences.

Only spkr would argue that it's unfair for proto AV to smash a militia tank.

But at least over the last two years he's consistent!

You are correct, spreadsheets assume spherical mercs in a vacuum, and thus aren't going to ever be where final balance is struck. But they are a great starting point to hammer into a correct shape through testing...and we as the Vehicle Operator/AV community should be focusing on the new stats, and looking for any issues that will come up through the course of normal game-play. It's true that we cannot predict everything, but we can get a pretty good idea based on our past experiences.

Only spkr would argue that it's unfair for proto AV to smash a militia tank.

But at least over the last two years he's consistent!

Yes, A SOMA. A madrudger could take a bit more than that. And yet again the disparity between armor and shields IS being addressed and discussed.

The correct answer is bringing armor up to the level shield is at, not nerfing shield to the point where the differences are back to Chrome/Uprising levdls.

I did the smashing. I've been smashed in return. The national corps do that very well. I don't see them coming on here and talking about AV and vehicles. But, all of you want to easily solo vehicles. It's a squad of infantry with AV vs you going solo. Of course you're all going to complain that AV is hard to use and UP, and vehicles are too hard to destroy.

You do realize that I pilot right. I've been with several top corps and my prowess has always been appreciated and needed. I'm typically a first pick for PC teams.

I know my stuff. And above all I want a well balanced and challenging end game. No I don't want infantry AV to hold the advantage over a tank, and I seriously don't think breaking wants that either.

Above all we want and expect a challenge. You always revert back to how tanks were when tanks were OP and blame AV for being unable to kill a tank and the cause for how tanks are now. Things were balanced heavily to the tank side and I'm sorry fella, that isn't right.

That's exactly what I said, and by taking one look at proto fits you can see that's what they are attempting to do! Who in the world ever said NERF SHIELDS? Where and why are you even saying this.

Makes no sense.

Perfect description! I've never believed that you can figure out the solution on paper, as things work differently in the field than they do on paper often.

But all these things go hand in hand, paper creates the shape, experience and practice hammers out the edges. Can't have one without the other.

Love it.

When have tanks ever been OP?

Correction pokey. 13-16 second MINIMUM TTK.

I'm erring on the side of advantage to tank versus solo AV.

Ah you must have updated it from last time I looked at it.

I'm more comfortable with 13-16 seconds, but we'll have to see how it plays out in testing.

Yes, A SOMA. A madrudger could take a bit more than that. And yet again the disparity between armor and shields IS being addressed and discussed.

To be fair to Sparky, there's not much of a difference. Yea, you can still 4 shot a maxed out Maddy. That is a thing now.

After the balance pass, no. And To be fair to you and Breakin, a PROTO Swarm fired at a Soma should break easily.

When have tanks ever been OP?

How will it be different? Assuming you mean current numbers.

Because a maddy now takes 4 forge shots to kill.

Rattatis maddy will require a reload. Possibly a mag and a half depending on regen.

Maddys are buffed. Gunnlogis will be about as hard to kill with a forge as they are now . The 13-16 second TTK I'm quoting is versus the maddy solo assuming no shots up the butt. Using current AV values it's closer to 22 second minimum TTK if you pull every shot perfectly .

The gunnlogis will be significantly harder in both cases. The UHAVs are going to be insane.

AV will require a buff to hit 13-16 second window if your shot placement is perfect.

Swarms will be less stupid vs. The new tanks. They're in the neighborhood of where the new tanks will be Already. I have to rerun their TTK numbers. I have a feeling they're still going tito be a bit too strong.

Up to halfway through Codex, and then again for like a week in Chromo. And you could argue 1.7

How is the maddy going to require more than 1 forge clip? 4k armor, or 4.5k, is still the same.

Im not sure what fit you're using for your Madrugar but its obviously a bit different from mine.

Complex Armor Hardener
Complex Armor Repairer
Enhanced 120mm Armor Plate
Enhanced 120mm Armor Plate

Basic Fuel Injector
Enhanced Damage Mod
Complex Scanner

Proto Large Blaster

1200 Shield HP
5600 Armor HP
7000 Armor eHP (Hardened)

That's quite a bit more than 4k-4.5k armor, are you only using one plate? Looks like 1 Complex Plate pushes you around 4.5k armor or so.

Overall I think the PG/CPU mods should be much less fitting intensive. As it stands using the mods we have currently on rattati's hulls? Unless I'm missing something it won't allow more than the addition of a forge gun shot worth of TTK overall. If I'm wrong tell me.

I'm not seeing the current mods breaking rattati's hulls.

Seriously can anyone use the current fitting mods in protofits to spike an HAV above 8k raw HP (before hardeners/reps)?

If so, how and by how much?

Because a maddy now takes 4 forge shots to kill.

Rattatis maddy will require a reload. Possibly a mag and a half depending on regen.

Maddys are buffed. Gunnlogis will be about as hard to kill with a forge as they are now . The 13-16 second TTK I'm quoting is versus the maddy solo assuming no shots up the butt. Using current AV values it's closer to 22 second minimum TTK if you pull every shot perfectly .

The gunnlogis will be significantly harder in both cases. The UHAVs are going to be insane.

AV will require a buff to hit 13-16 second window if your shot placement is perfect.

Swarms will be less stupid vs. The new tanks. They're in the neighborhood of where the new tanks will be Already. I have to rerun their TTK numbers. I have a feeling they're still going tito be a bit too strong.