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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
202
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Posted - 2015.02.17 06:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Cyrus Grevare wrote:Happy to help o7,
If something's broken let me know, I'll get on it ASAP.
both a question for you and Rattati...What is the real 80GJ Particle Cannon Damage...the client lists it as a lower value than what is listed on protofits (as I brought up a lot in the previous threads...). This can lead to inaccurate assumptions about the overall DPS of the weapon platform
Back to responding to the OP:
Other Than that...the Gladius looks like an awesome shield tanker for now...just adapting my current fitting onto it...
Also...to Rattati...I understand why you're limiting the hardeners, but I will still protest it for the final HAV rebalance.
[email protected] was seeing two fits simultaneously...and getting the gallente regen on the caldari hull? (Possibly just a fun glitch)
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
202
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Posted - 2015.02.17 07:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cyrus Grevare wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:Cyrus Grevare wrote:Happy to help o7,
If something's broken let me know, I'll get on it ASAP. both a question for you and Rattati...What is the real 80GJ Particle Cannon Damage...the client lists it as a lower value than what is listed on protofits (as I brought up a lot in the previous threads...). This can lead to inaccurate assumptions about the overall DPS of the weapon platform Back to responding to the OP: Other Than that...the Gladius looks like an awesome shield tanker for now...just adapting my current fitting onto it... Also...to Rattati...I understand why you're limiting the hardeners, but I will still protest it for the final HAV rebalance. [email protected] was seeing two fits simultaneously...and getting the gallente regen on the caldari hull? (Possibly just a fun glitch) I'll do a quick check on the current turret damage values mine might be off, that data (turret damage) is unfortunately not on the SDE and any updates on it I have to do manually, sometimes I loose track  Give me a few mins 
Quite alright, and thanks
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
202
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Posted - 2015.02.17 16:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rattati, you may want to tone back the costs associated with the fitting mods...as has been stated, ADSs are almost entirely dependent on them...(The unfortunate part of a rebalance of the system the way you have it is you hit everything that uses the module types at the same time)
as for the HAV side of things...consider re-tuning the Shield Booster fitting cost. Shield boosters are very...temperamental...to use right now, and the punishing fitting cost doesn't help them look like a reliable choice.
As for armor hardeners...while it seems like a lower resistance for a shorter time is pretty good...they end up falling flat. The engagement window for HAVs is so small when someone has AV (doesn't matter if it's man portable or on a vehicle, so long as the operator is competent), that for armor HAVs there is hardly a point to hardeners...30% resistance would be a nice start...and shouldn't result in too much of an extreme result (other than the possibility that Incubi become a little harder to shoot down...) especially considering the limit of 1 hardener (of each type) per fit.
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
204
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Posted - 2015.02.17 23:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
On the subject of shield regeneration. It needs to have a way to happen to where at all times, it is more worth it to leave the vehicle on the field to self-repair than to recall it and then call in it back in again. This is in no way advocating for even longer Recall "Cooldown" timers...as those are already punishing of accidentally calling in the wrong vehicle, but rather a chance to talk about time to recharge and time in-between "Waves of Opportunity"
I personally am for the implementation of either a recharge time model (Which would take too much of a development undertaking) or a Psuedo Recharge Time (Similar to how the Concentric Circle sensor system was a psuedo falloff system for sensors) by adding a shield regen bonus to hardeners (along with a change of regen rates of the HAV hulls to maintain the recharge time etc etc etc)
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
206
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Posted - 2015.02.18 01:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Not most people, just 3 people that spend more time posting on the forums then calling in a tank in- game.
With one hardener, for 24 seconds shield hardners need the old 60% reduction, and armor tankers need the old 35 second 40% reduction.
Again, the 4 second shield delay, depleted shield delay, and damage threshold was the trade off for not needing a module to start shield reps.
If there is a low slot module introduced that triples shield reps and reduces repair delay to near zero seconds then there would be some parity.
As it is proposed a shield tank with blaster VS an armor tank with blaster of equal skill will have the shield tank lose badly every time. Armor will rep through damage. Well when "most people" spend most time complaining about how much they hate everything rather than offering tangible solutions, those producing actual feedback are taken the most seriously. Also I've said, many times, that hardeners in general need to be redone on both fronts. Also note that I never said shield vehicles should need a module to start shield reps. I have no issue with them repping naturally without any modules needed. What I did have an issue with is the natural shield recharge outclassing even the best armor repairer with zero module investment...again, it leads to balance issues. And no, throwing more CPU at the Madrugar would not change this fact. And you're right, a CALDARI vehicle using a GALLENTE turret against a tanking style SPECIFICALLY designed to counter low sustained damage in a range which is not supposed to be well suited for a shield tanking style...you're going to lose. Working as intended. If you want to be a close range blaster sustained brawler, use a Gallente HAV. If you want longer range burst damage, use a Caldari HAV. It's not complicated.
I think the issue has to do with total fitted regen capability of the Shield HAVs (What with boosters being both...Temperamental (Possibly Flat out Broken) and extremely expensive to fit). To where, with modules as-is it takes the Shield HAVs longer to regen than it would for them to withdraw from to the redline, recall, and then call in another vehicle...(dependent on fits ofc...but holds true for most MBT-style fits)
I agree that base regen needs to be lower than what it was, but the shield HAVs need fitting options to support that change
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
206
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Posted - 2015.02.19 21:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Oh I found out you can't interrupt shield boosters. they only get one pulse for the listed amount.
if you take damage, it just eats part (or all) of that benefit entirely.
so instead of 5 pulses that result in say 1950 HP repped to shields it just does it all at once, rather than spacing it out over 10-15 seconds.
So I dunno what people are thinking whern you say you can "interrupt" the regen.
Which is why I say they are temperamental rather than broken...
There are sometimes (although I can't reliably reproduce the behavior) where taking only slight damage will keep the full amount from being provided...additionally, they can sometimes provide no benefit at all even when not taking damage, but again, I have found this difficult to reproduce, as it just seems to happen at random, or there are too many things going on for me to be able to list all of what was affecting it
Additionally, on the shield booster itself, it is too fitting intensive to really make it a valuable mod, even without the temperamental behavior (Particularly on the PGU side of things)...if there was an advanced fitting optimization skill that reduced the opposite fitting stat for both armor and shield (so, Advanced Shield Fitting Optimization affects Shield PGU cost and Advanced Armor Fitting Optimization affects Armor CPU cost) it might be usable...or if it had a reduced PGU cost. (Note: that this was a problem even before the proposed changes to fitting mods are taken into account).
Alternatively, the boost amount could be increased to try to make it worth fitting, but I find that: in general, the fitting cost is still going to be the big sticking point (adjusting Cooldowns accross all tiers is an option, as currently there is little incentive to not proto out most vehicle modules...the difference is just so drastic)
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
208
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Posted - 2015.02.21 15:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ok...Starting to do some comparisons for people to reference
I use two General Defense types for Gunnlogi fits
Type 1s are dual extender, single hardener
Type 1 R/R
Type 1 R/B
Type 1 R/D
These are the three I run most often, mostly because they're what my usual squadmates like to use
I also will occassionally run a type 2 fitting (Dual Hardener, 1 Extender or utility mod)
Type 2 R/D-s
Ok...those are for a frame of reference of where I'm coming from, I prefer Tank to Gank on my HAVs...and currently stand a solid chance in any HAV v HAV engagement...
Here are some of the fittings I've been cooking up for the Gladius:
R/R-T - The Raw HP this beast can get is impressive to say the least, but requires extremely high skills to achieve...although the ADV extender can be dropped for a utility module instead (Damage AMP and the like)
R/B-B Fair HP, with a booster and Nitro to help it in sticky situations, I wouldn't want to use it HAV v HAV without fire support, and the Booster hits your overall fitting potential by a ton.
R/D-TsA Tanky Gladius, where I drop a little bit of the HP to gain a mCRU, should prove useful as a forward fire base (If it had more seats, blues know to hop out of the turrets, or people could spawn outside the vehicle)
Those are some of the things I've been messing around with, the small turrets remain largely interchangeable, so picking the right smalls for the job (or your squadmates) should be pretty easy...just wish they could get ADV gun fitting on there at the least
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
208
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Posted - 2015.02.21 18:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
duster 35000 wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:Ok...Starting to do some comparisons for people to reference I use two General Defense types for Gunnlogi fits Type 1s are dual extender, single hardener Type 1 R/RType 1 R/BType 1 R/DThese are the three I run most often, mostly because they're what my usual squadmates like to use I also will occassionally run a type 2 fitting (Dual Hardener, 1 Extender or utility mod) Type 2 R/D-sOk...those are for a frame of reference of where I'm coming from, I prefer Tank to Gank on my HAVs...and currently stand a solid chance in any HAV v HAV engagement... Here are some of the fittings I've been cooking up for the Gladius: R/R-T - The Raw HP this beast can get is impressive to say the least, but requires extremely high skills to achieve...although the ADV extender can be dropped for a utility module instead (Damage AMP and the like) R/B-B Fair HP, with a booster and Nitro to help it in sticky situations, I wouldn't want to use it HAV v HAV without fire support, and the Booster hits your overall fitting potential by a ton. R/D-TsA Tanky Gladius, where I drop a little bit of the HP to gain a mCRU, should prove useful as a forward fire base (If it had more seats, blues know to hop out of the turrets, or people could spawn outside the vehicle) Those are some of the things I've been messing around with, the small turrets remain largely interchangeable, so picking the right smalls for the job (or your squadmates) should be pretty easy...just wish they could get ADV gun fitting on there at the least I'm looking at fittings for the Marduk right now, but my initial fittings say it's low a tad on CPU (Not nearly to the degree they used to be) and a bit short on PGU...and extra 35-40 CPU and a 40-50 PGU boost would help them immensely All those fits are boring, nothing but railgun turret. also 4 extenders is terrible, since they nerfed the shield regen.
Turrets are fairly easily interchangeable, but I prefer the rail turret personally, and yeah regen can be problematic on shields, given how much has to be sacrificed to fit a Booster....really I'd like to see base regen lowered a bit more, and then add a flat regen bonus to the plates to put in place psuedo-recharge-time system, let's say we go to a 35-45 second recharge (since we're working with a system that has shield recharge delay...without delay I'd put it at a 90 second recharge).
Additionally, I've found the Gladius to be too dependent on fitting mods...it also needs its fitting upped slightly...and we also need to have utility mods in the lows.
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
209
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Posted - 2015.02.22 23:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:True Adamance wrote:
Specific kinds of hardeners?
Low all round resistance hardeners vs powerful damage type specific ones?
For example players might choose to stack say 20% hardeners and one explosive damage resistance modules that provides 35% against explosive weapons?
I forget, in EVE do damage specific hardeners stack separately from omni-damage hardeners?
Omni-Damage hardeners affect all 4 resistance attributes, so do have stacking penalties with specific hardeners (as it's all about if they affect a certain attribute or not). The exception being the Damage Control Module Series, which do not have stacking penalties (although only one may be fit), except with the armor resistance phasing module
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
209
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Posted - 2015.02.27 16:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Not really when rattati is seriously thinking about limiting the hardener to 1 and nerfing PG/CPU modules or creating various fits on protofits.
The creating various fits on protofits is part of the community feedback phase, and is designed to help Rattati see if there is anything broken at all. I agree with you that I don't like the heavy-handed approach to hardeners. As well, PG/CPU mods don't need as hard of a nerf as Rattati is giving them as much as they need some competition for utility in the low-slots, beyond just armor mods.
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Im right when i talk about SL in uprising and now, im right on the new advanced/prototype HAVs which are just in name and not nature because of no slot increase, im right about the ADS unable to dodge SL.
New ADV/PRO HAVs may have the same slot-layout, but they have expanded fitting to allow them to fill those slots out. It isn't the same as dropsuit progression, and in my opinion, it's better and should be how the dropsuits are done.
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
Unfortuanly not many use FG, the majority is AV and last i checked the SL is AV, the FG is generally fine, the PLC is not but buffing any AV can defo kill the rest of the vehicles.
Swarm Launcher is in a...very powerful place right now, and wouldn't need a change, I'm reasonably sure Breakin, Rattati...and frankly anyone who has seen a swarm launcher in action is aware of that. The Forge Gun (Specifically the VFG and BFG...AFG is in a pretty solid place right now, and might only need slight tweaking) however could use a little bit of help...particularly the BFG... and the PLC's AV Capability is laughable outside of a commando platform, and even then it barely does enough to qualify unless you run double PLCs or a Kubo's. So in that sense, the majority of AV needs some sort of buff, but it would be more accurate to say that AV needs a re-balance, and commando potential AV utility needs to be looked at as well but that's a discussion for a separate thread (that has already been made by pokey). (As do LAVs and DSs...LAVs get too much in the way of base stats...need more slots, lower base stats, better Light Modules...DSs need something)
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
I play the game every day and i see what happens to my vehicles and how a SL pushes me off easily or i can dual a FG because they have a chance to miss. I have FG and SL to proto and prof 5, i have used them and i know the downsides and upsides of both.
Opinions come from playing the game and just being a spreadsheet warrior doesn't cut it because the spreadsheet pits whatever it is on an empty field with no cover, no moving, no tactics, no variables whatsoever so it produces a false outcome.
You are correct, spreadsheets assume spherical mercs in a vacuum, and thus aren't going to ever be where final balance is struck. But they are a great starting point to hammer into a correct shape through testing...and we as the Vehicle Operator/AV community should be focusing on the new stats, and looking for any issues that will come up through the course of normal game-play. It's true that we cannot predict everything, but we can get a pretty good idea based on our past experiences.
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
213
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Posted - 2015.03.02 21:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ofc all this AV discussion is irrelevant to the topic of the thread itself...
The proposed HAVs are almost good...both need a resource buff, and we need some utility for the lows (That way you can actually have the intended opportunity cost of fitting mods)...no change to the resource cost is necessary once the slot becomes competitive (Things like Overdrives, Regulators...even passive damage amps and the like for things for the low slot)
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
213
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Posted - 2015.03.03 01:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Doc DDD wrote:For example, I am making some rediculous marduk fits with shield extenders and shield hardeners with a nitro, 2 complex light armor repairers and 2 basic plates... proto blaster with 2 small basic rails...
What inventive shield fits are there going to be?
Extender
Extender
Extender
Extender
Hardener
ammo expansion
plate Again I think this comes full circle to the fact that passive regeneration is really the only true means of regaining HP. I mean sure you have boosters but they're difficult to fit a lot of the time, and they're more of a means to trigger passive regeneration than they are actively regenerating HP. That being said if your entire means to regain HP is in passive regen, and you have no means to improve that regen (rechargers for example) there is little reason to NOT max out eHP. Pretty much all of my Gunnlogi fits are 4 extenders and a hardener too because I have very little reason NOT to do that. We got more slots, but without new modules and restricting to a single hardener instead of addressing the issues with hardeners directly....I feel like in terms of freedom of fitting its 2 steps forward and 2 steps back.
New slots are at least a step in the right direction, and I've made a few theory-fits with nitros and boosters (because I keep hoping they get fixed)...it's just a light tank isn't the style I personally like (it's entirely possible to do with the new Gunnlogi slot layout though...just needs more base fittings, and low slots to have some competitive utilities...fitting mods don't need to be hit as hard...etc etc...). My personal preference is for a heavy tank, and I'd gladly fit some regulators in the low-slots to increase my regen...or maybe even drop an extender for a recharger...if shield delay wasn't a thing the decision would be easier...but the mod has to exist for the decision to take place(But you and I have already talked about shield recharge delay before pokey).
Additionally, all game mechanics need to be taken into account when looking at how vehicles can interact with the game over-all. The HP needs to be able to be restored to a reasonable amount, in an small enough amount of time to where it isn't more advantageous to call in a new HAV and recall the old one. This can be accomplished easily on shields using a regen time (or pseudo regen time system), and armor can be solved with a better regen bonus in the vicinity of a supply depot (of which, we need more that vehicles can actually use...Rattati Please?)...shields could also use a supplemental shield regen bonus from supply depots (in place of the pseudo time system, or to augment it)...provided that being around it also reduced the shield delay, and Depleted Delay...
I think we can at least agree that the slot layout is a step in the right direction...the fitting numbers need played with (buffed slightly in both cases), and fitting mods don't need to be hit as hard as Rattati is proposing (if they need changed at all). Assuming we get new mods at some point close to the release of these changes (or at the same time if possible).
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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