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Logis Aren't Doing Thier Jobs

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Clone D 1292	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:22:00 - [1] - Quote Logis pushed for sole propriety over equipment. They got it, and now what? There are many more matches without any uplinks on the field whatsoever. Proximity explosives are a thing of the past because logis have better things to do? Logis are doing the one thing that they know how to do. Latch onto a heavy and hold R1 for the remainder of the match. Do your jobs logis. If you see a battlefield with all red letters and no friendly uplinks, then you didn't do your job. Learn how to prevent that. Don't make me stop assaulting and capturing objectives, because you don't know how to do your job, so that I can do it for you.
Orber Gen Academy Inferno E-R-A 269	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:24:00 - [2] - Quote Work as intended (C) CCP
Byozuma Kegawa Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 392	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:29:00 - [3] - Quote Uplinks have short lifespans due to people actually hunting them down, half the time to spawn-camp and the other to actually get rid of it. Proximities have classically been the purview of scouts because logistics have better things to do (like keeping sentinels/squads covered/healthy). A logistics role isn't advancing into held territory without support, that's what scouts do. Logistics are support roles, thus they don't usually travel solo hacking objectives and dropping explosives. And uplinks tend to happen when opportune.
Flint Beastgood III Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1201	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:31:00 - [4] - Quote Clone D wrote: Logis pushed for sole propriety over equipment. They got it, and now what? There are many more matches without any uplinks on the field whatsoever. Proximity explosives are a thing of the past because logis have better things to do? Logis are doing the one thing that they know how to do. Latch onto a heavy and hold R1 for the remainder of the match. Do your jobs logis. If you see a battlefield with all red letters and no friendly uplinks, then you didn't do your job. Learn how to prevent that. Don't make me stop assaulting and capturing objectives, because you don't know how to do your job, so that I can do it for you. Bandwidth. I still do my uplink thing, but they only go so far now. I'm not running proto every match just so I can place down 8 instead of 6, that's just reetarded. I know what you're saying though. At first I stopped uplinking when bandwidth was introduced, but more and more I am forced to drive around placing links or sit in the redline with the rest of the team until the match ends, lol. Skills - https://www.facebook.com/notes/flint-beastgood-iii/list-of-trained-skills/416505058477164
7th Son 7 Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 188	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:33:00 - [5] - Quote Clone D wrote: Logis pushed for sole propriety over equipment. They got it, and now what? There are many more matches without any uplinks on the field whatsoever. Proximity explosives are a thing of the past because logis have better things to do? Logis are doing the one thing that they know how to do. Latch onto a heavy and hold R1 for the remainder of the match. Do your jobs logis. If you see a battlefield with all red letters and no friendly uplinks, then you didn't do your job. Learn how to prevent that. Don't make me stop assaulting and capturing objectives, because you don't know how to do your job, so that I can do it for you. What's wrong with making an assault suit that has uplinks for those occassions? c'mon man
Clone D 1292	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:35:00 - [6] - Quote Byozuma Kegawa wrote: Uplinks have short lifespans due to people actually hunting them down, half the time to spawn-camp and the other to actually get rid of it. Proximities have classically been the purview of scouts because logistics have better things to do (like keeping sentinels/squads covered/healthy). A logistics role isn't advancing into held territory without support, that's what scouts do. Logistics are support roles, thus they don't usually travel solo hacking objectives and dropping explosives. And uplinks tend to happen when opportune. 1. If you are a logi and you're setting uplinks in places where they can be camped, and you're not protecting them then YOU ARE MAKING A SPAWN TRAP for your team. Learn how to deploy an uplink. You're not doing your job right. 2. If you are a logi and you have better things to do than set proximity explosives, WHO IS SUPPOSED TO DO IT? Scouts do not have enough bandwidth to deploy an effective mine field. PEs are equipment and belong in the domain of the logis who are designed to deploy equipment.
Flint Beastgood III Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1201	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:37:00 - [7] - Quote Byozuma Kegawa wrote: Logistics are support roles, thus they don't usually travel solo hacking objectives and dropping explosives. This was EXACTLY what I did as a gal logi from 5mil SP (Uprising 1.0) to 20mil SP, lol. Hacking level 5. Gal Logi Level 3. Demolitions Level 4. Uplinks Level 3. That was my bread and butter and had I not been doing that, DUST would never have stayed on my PS3 for so long. I'm so glad I didn't have the NPE of nowadays to deal with, but it sure wasn't a walk in the park. EDIT: @57mil SP, the only skill mentioned above that has advanced is Uplinks (Level 5), lol. Skills - https://www.facebook.com/notes/flint-beastgood-iii/list-of-trained-skills/416505058477164
Clone D 1292	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:37:00 - [8] - Quote 7th Son 7 wrote: What's wrong with making an assault suit that has uplinks for those occassions? c'mon man If the field is devoid of uplinks, then logis didn't do their jobs. I am devoting my equipment slot to REs (or a nanohive, since there is never a logi around when you need one).
Clone D 1293	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:40:00 - [9] - Quote Flint Beastgood III wrote: Bandwidth. I still do my uplink thing, but they only go so far now. I'm not running proto every match just so I can place down 8 instead of 6, that's just reetarded. I know what you're saying though. At first I stopped uplinking when bandwidth was introduced, but more and more I am forced to drive around placing links or sit in the redline with the rest of the team until the match ends, lol. Yes, I frequently have to stop what I'm doing and do logis jobs for them and then figure out a way to go back to what I was doing without sacrificing bandwidth.
Flint Beastgood III Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1203	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:40:00 - [10] - Quote Clone D wrote: 7th Son 7 wrote: What's wrong with making an assault suit that has uplinks for those occassions? c'mon man If the field is devoid of uplinks, then logis didn't do their jobs. I am devoting my equipment slot to REs (or a nanohive, since there is never a logi around when you need one). ^This. Although I haven't used REs since they became sticky, apart from on my Min APEX suits. Skills - https://www.facebook.com/notes/flint-beastgood-iii/list-of-trained-skills/416505058477164

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5638	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:40:00 - [11] - Quote For logis to work properly they need to be supporting a squad. People would rather solo. Solo logi throwing out links and crossing their fingers for blueberries to show up is a pretty futile effort. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Clone D 1293	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:44:00 - [12] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: For logis to work properly they need to be supporting a squad. [...] Sounds lke the logi union catch phrase. NO NO NO. I as an assault have to stop what I'm doing, change into a logi suit, call a dropship and set uplinks around the field, to create a doorway back into battle. IF I CAN DO IT. A LOGI WHO SPECCED INTO THAT ROLE CAN DO IT. Do your jobs logis.
Nirwanda Vaughns 1192	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:47:00 - [13] - Quote Clone D wrote: 7th Son 7 wrote: What's wrong with making an assault suit that has uplinks for those occassions? c'mon man If the field is devoid of uplinks, then logis didn't do their jobs. I am devoting my equipment slot to REs (or a nanohive, since there is never a logi around when you need one). or th elogi did his job but a heavy/assault was crying fo rsome hives. logi dropped it and cos of the slightly broken bandwidth system the uplinks pop or scouts tak ethem out. a 'properly' fit logi can carry about 3 uplinks (gauged) once they've gone and either the supply depot has been blown up or you can't get it hacked hows a logi supposed to restock his supply? as has been said before it doesnt take much to get lv3 or 4 in drop uplinks so any player over a few months old can get them and make a quick uplink fit in any suit they own that has an equipment slot and seeign as only the heavy suits don't have them then thats a lot of options. don't just rely on bluedot logis, if you see alack of uplinks while you're solo... err put some out. why rely on someone when you can do it yourself? Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
7th Son 7 Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 189	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:48:00 - [14] - Quote Clone D wrote: 7th Son 7 wrote: What's wrong with making an assault suit that has uplinks for those occassions? c'mon man If the field is devoid of uplinks, then logis didn't do their jobs. I am devoting my equipment slot to REs (or a nanohive, since there is never a logi around when you need one). Agreed, but we all know a team can't always be trusted to do their jobs well. That's where the phrase "stupid blueberry" comes from. All im saying is have a counter for when blueberries are letting you down if you can.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2979	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:48:00 - [15] - Quote I Always put out links... Proto links on every logi suit I have.. The problem lies with equipment health pools.... It used to take a few shots to remove enemy equipment on the field... And if it was a Caldari Logi's nanohives? Those things had 400 health... Taking out equipment was part of the tactics... With the way scouts have had their teeth filed down with nerfs... The average competent enemy scout is sitting at the back of your team taking out Uplinks... Specially in a Dom or Ambush... That with normal players not carrying and deploying Uplinks have made them largely a rarity on the battlefield unless that is all someone is doing. Logi's who just link upto a heavy... And don't worry about supporting the entire team as a whole don;t score or perform to well.. The Logi's who can rep multiple people while keeping links and nanohives down and providing scans or running a passive scan fit are the ones that are getting good results in matches. The ones that just hold R1 behind a heavy..... Then have to try and survive everyone targeting the yellow suit that has a line leading to where it is? Don't score to well and spend the entire match trying to survive.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6267	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:49:00 - [16] - Quote Run with a squad. Be their logi and let them slay, or slay while a squadmate logis. Blueberries are unreliable and incompetent. Stop depending on them to do things for you. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
Flint Beastgood III Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1203	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:49:00 - [17] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: For logis to work properly they need to be supporting a squad. People would rather solo. Solo logi throwing out links and crossing their fingers for blueberries to show up is a pretty futile effort. Yeah, I much prefer to run squad support, but when I am running around solo-linking I stay to defend the links until there is a group of blues ready to move forward, and then carry on about my business which usually involves changing to a support fit or leading a charge on the objective - it's amazing what blues can do when they spawn in to see me mowing down approaching enemies like no mans business, they can go from clueless uncoordinated idiots to men on a mission, lol, great cover for hacking, even if they do just die and respawn. Skills - https://www.facebook.com/notes/flint-beastgood-iii/list-of-trained-skills/416505058477164
Flint Beastgood III Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1203	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:51:00 - [18] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Logi's who just link upto a heavy... And don't worry about supporting the entire team as a whole don;t score or perform to well.. The Logi's who can rep multiple people while keeping links and nanohives down and providing scans or running a passive scan fit are the ones that are getting good results in matches. The ones that just hold R1 behind a heavy..... Then have to try and survive everyone targeting the yellow suit that has a line leading to where it is? Don't score to well and spend the entire match trying to survive. Yep. Skills - https://www.facebook.com/notes/flint-beastgood-iii/list-of-trained-skills/416505058477164
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3588	Posted - 2015.01.07 18:52:00 - [19] - Quote That doesn't mean Logis aren't doing their jobs it means the whole battlefront logistics is messed up. I'm not talking about the Logistics suit here I'm talking about ACTUAL logistics. The game is too dependent upon uplinks to keep players near the frontlines, this causes the problems we see now. When too many uplinks are placed you get ants nesting and making a push on enemy territory becomes a convuluted game of whack-a-mole. When too few uplinks are placed the maps become to expansive and neither team really gathers up the resources to successfully push or defend against points. We need a greater push towards CRU Installations Vehicle Mobile CRU and vehicular transport. Focus needs to be shifted away from uplinks (which should really be used as a black-ops insertion tool not summon a whole army through a magical black hole kind of deal) and more towards bolstering your battle lines requiring a concerted effort between transport pilots, hacker based scouts and point defence. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Flint Beastgood III Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1203	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:03:00 - [20] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: long post with good points Yeah, TEAM communication is not where it needs to be to really achieve this, until we get Team Deploy it's a lost cause. What I'd like is to have an uplink MODULE to fit on my suit. Or an auto-link-on-Squad-Leader feature, like other games where you have the option to spawn on your squad leader. Skills - https://www.facebook.com/notes/flint-beastgood-iii/list-of-trained-skills/416505058477164

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5640	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:04:00 - [21] - Quote Clone D wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: For logis to work properly they need to be supporting a squad. [...] Sounds lke the logi union catch phrase. NO NO NO. I as an assault have to stop what I'm doing, change into a logi suit, call a dropship and set uplinks around the field, to create a doorway back into battle. IF I CAN DO IT. A LOGI WHO SPECCED INTO THAT ROLE CAN DO IT. Do your jobs logis. Winning doesn't matter in pubs. It's pretty much the answer to every problem in Dust. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Clone D 1293	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:08:00 - [22] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: or th elogi did his job but a heavy/assault was crying fo rsome hives. logi dropped it and cos of the slightly broken bandwidth system the uplinks pop or scouts tak ethem out. a 'properly' fit logi can carry about 3 uplinks (gauged) once they've gone and either the supply depot has been blown up or you can't get it hacked hows a logi supposed to restock his supply? All I see here is that some logis don't know how to manage their bandwidth. Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: as has been said before it doesnt take much to get lv3 or 4 in drop uplinks so any player over a few months old can get them and make a quick uplink fit in any suit they own that has an equipment slot and seeign as only the heavy suits don't have them then thats a lot of options. don't just rely on bluedot logis, if you see alack of uplinks while you're solo... err put some out. why rely on someone when you can do it yourself? Logi is not my chosen profession. Why should I have to do the job of a logi, when that is not what I specced into? What you're saying is that logis don't have the ability to do their jobs and need someone else to pitch in a helping hand, yet logis want to maintain superior bandwidth to every other role. NO NO NO. Learn how to manage your bandwidth, logi. Do your job. Or did you not attend bandwidth management at your local community college?
Clone D 1293	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:14:00 - [23] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Run with a squad. Be their logi and let them slay, or slay while a squadmate logis. Blueberries are unreliable and incompetent. Stop depending on them to do things for you. I didn't say I was depending on them. They don't do their jobs, so I do it. I'm just stating that they are not doing what is in their job description very well. And for having pushed so hard to hold that responsibility alone, they are proving that they cannot handle it.. They're letting the team down and causing losses.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5641	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:23:00 - [24] - Quote I find it more odd that blueberries that are sniping aren't able to see the 10 dudes on the pipes dropping remotes. Or the 4 dropships flying around with no AV to be seen. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
SteelheadPep SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 178	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:36:00 - [25] - Quote There are so many variations to the logi fit along with the racial bonuses. People who spec into logi have to spend a tremendous amount of SP to skill and upgrade all of the various equipment. When you are in a sqaud (with mics) sqaud leads try to use the best fits for that particular moment. I try to come in with Amarr Logi with proto uplinks ,pen and a sixskin to start. I will remain in that fitting until the need arise to switch into a Min Logi for better repping, Gal logi if scans are needed. The Amar suit bonus allows my team to get optimal spawns but is a disadvantage in the other areas.All logi fits are not cookie cutter.Just like all slayer fits are not the same,please donnot point your finger at players who are trying to help you do better.This is a team based game, if you like running solo thats fine but it has drawbacks under certain situations.Sqauding up with mics changes the whole dynamics of the game, and who knows you might enjoy more matches.Look forward to sqauding up with you or any sqaud that would like an old school support logi (i will put shiny links down for you personally)
Clone D 1293	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:37:00 - [26] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I find it more odd that blueberries that are sniping aren't able to see the 10 dudes on the pipes dropping remotes. Or the 4 dropships flying around with no AV to be seen. Right on... To me, the primary difference is that snipers didn't push to be the only role to have the right to kill infantry. Logis did push hard to hold primary domain over equipment, thereby restricting other roles from interfering with their WP grubbing. However, now we see evidence that logis are not supporting the team very well. I don't think that they can handle the responsibility alone. In order for me to make things right, I am forced to stop performing the Assault\|Scout\|Point Defense\|AV role I want to do, change into a logi and perform their role for them because they are incapable. Then, I am forced to remain in that role, which super sucks because I don't want to be a logi period. Logis said, "We've got this under control. You don't neeeeed the ability to deploy multiple equipment." I guess they were wrong, and they can't cope with the responisibility.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6273	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:38:00 - [27] - Quote Clone D wrote: I didn't say I was depending on them. They don't do their jobs, so I do it. I'm just stating that they are not doing what is in their job description very well. And for having pushed so hard to hold that responsibility alone, they are proving that they cannot handle it.. They're letting the team down and causing losses. Ah, so you are irritated with blueberries in general. Yeah, they are terrible. Solution: get in a squad. /thread Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1863	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:41:00 - [28] - Quote oh look, another "i hate logistics" thread from Clone D. All Hail Legion
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6273	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:44:00 - [29] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: oh look, another "i hate logistics" thread from Clone D. He is terribly upset that bandwidth exists and he can no longer farm WPs by the thousand Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5644	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:48:00 - [30] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: oh look, another "i hate logistics" thread from Clone D. He is terribly upset that bandwidth exists and he can no longer farm WPs by the thousand It seems that way. I'm a big fan of the bandwidth because it's given logis a role again, but there is still no incentive to win matches. Logis are important to winning matches. Logis perform better in squads. Squading isn't a priority because winning isn't important. Lots of balance issues would be solved or more easily fixed if they incentivized winning. I think the fallout from that would fix sooo many issues that have plagued Dust for a long time. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.

Clone D 1293	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:48:00 - [31] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Solution: get in a squad. Maybe you can assist me with resolving this technical problem: Whenever I am in a squad, I experience huge amounts of lag. It's about double the amount of lag that I usually experience. Whenever I am on comms in a squad, I experience even more lag to the point that I cannot tell what is happening in the game and I just listen in to my squad to see what is happening during that battle. What can I do to fix that? I have a 25 Mbps connection with <1 ms jitter and my ps3 is fully operational and running a SSD. I use the America server (which experience shows gives me the least amount of lag). I adjusted my ps3 settings for optimal networking capabilities. I have an ethernet cable directly connected to my ps3. Oh, if there is no resolution to this problem, then is it okay with you if some people don't play in squads?
Clone D 1293	Posted - 2015.01.07 19:52:00 - [32] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: oh look, another "i hate logistics" thread from Clone D. He is terribly upset that bandwidth exists and he can no longer farm WPs by the thousand Your jabs are pointless, rip. My battle performance reflects my dominance regardless of what hoops I have to jump through. And I do it with MLT and STD gear, with hundreds of millions to spare. I have nothing to prove to you. I only make comments about gameplay, especially when the level of fun is being constrained by losers who can't keep up.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6275	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:06:00 - [33] - Quote Clone D wrote: Maybe you can assist me with resolving this technical problem I'm not your tech support Figure it out on your own. Perform a clean install of Dust 514. That helped Dust's performance on my machine. Clone D wrote: Oh, if there is no resolution to this problem, then is it okay with you if some people don't play in squads? If you want to play solo, that's fine. Just accept that you are going to miss out on some things this game has to offer because it is a squad-based game. One of those things is the ability to coordinate equipment loadouts. Clone D wrote: Your jabs are pointless, rip. My battle performance reflects my dominance regardless of what hoops I have to jump through. And I do it with MLT and STD gear, with hundreds of millions to spare. I have nothing to prove to you. I only make comments about gameplay, especially when the level of fun is being constrained by losers who can't keep up. Those losers are other solo blueberries, like you. The mercs who are squadding, and their logis, are supporting one another. When they need links they say, "Hey Mark, drop some links at bravo." And then Mark ******* does it. You are just screaming at other blues when you yourself have made the same decision they did: to run without friends. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6277	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:12:00 - [34] - Quote Also, it's important to note that assault and commandos can fit uplinks. Uplinks are not a logi-only piece of equipment. Forego RE's on your fittings and fit uplinks if you are really THAT upset. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
Clone D 1293	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:14:00 - [35] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: to run without friends. Just because you need a squad to carry you through battle doesn't mean that logis are doing their jobs. Any time that the battlefield is completely absent of friendly uplinks, or the team is being stampeded by ground vehicles and there are no proximity explosives, a logi somewhere is not doing his / her job. That is the point of the thread. Logis aren't doing their jobs.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6277	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:16:00 - [36] - Quote Clone D wrote: Just because you need a squad to carry you through battle doesn't mean that logis are doing their jobs. Any time that the battlefield is completely absent of friendly uplinks, or the team is being stampeded by ground vehicles and there are no proximity explosives, a logi somewhere is not doing his / her job. That is the point of the thread. Logis aren't doing their jobs. Ripley Riley wrote: Also, it's important to note that assault and commandos can fit uplinks. Uplinks are not a logi-only piece of equipment. Basically, what you are saying, is that blueberries aren't doing their jobs... because logis are not the only ones who can fit an uplink. You don't like blueberries? Turn them into tealberries. And your jabs are pointless, Clone Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
7th Son 7 Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 192	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:18:00 - [37] - Quote Clone D wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: to run without friends. Just because you need a squad to carry you through battle doesn't mean that logis are doing their jobs. Any time that the battlefield is completely absent of friendly uplinks, or the team is being stampeded by ground vehicles and there are no proximity explosives, a logi somewhere is not doing his / her job. That is the point of the thread. Logis aren't doing their jobs. Yeah D, but all the blame can't always fall on Logis, others carry equipment also.
Flint Beastgood III Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1207	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:20:00 - [38] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Those losers are other solo blueberries, like you. The mercs who are squadding, and their logis, are supporting one another. When they need links they say, "Hey Mark, drop some links at bravo." And then Mark ******* does it. You are just screaming at other blues when you yourself have made the same decision they did: to run without friends. LOL. Case closed. Skills - https://www.facebook.com/notes/flint-beastgood-iii/list-of-trained-skills/416505058477164
Clone D 1293	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:21:00 - [39] - Quote 7th Son 7 wrote: Clone D wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: to run without friends. Just because you need a squad to carry you through battle doesn't mean that logis are doing their jobs. Any time that the battlefield is completely absent of friendly uplinks, or the team is being stampeded by ground vehicles and there are no proximity explosives, a logi somewhere is not doing his / her job. That is the point of the thread. Logis aren't doing their jobs. Yeah D, but all the blame can't always fall on Logis, others carry equipment also. I agree, however, if you expect other roles to "assist" with the logi role, then don't limit their bandwidth so much. Need a little breathing room to do a logi's job and another job. Ya know.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6280	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:26:00 - [40] - Quote Clone D wrote: I agree, however, if you expect other roles to "assist" with the logi role, then don't limit their bandwidth so much. Need a little breathing room to do a logi's job and another job. Ya know. One of the fittings I run is an advanced assault with advanced uplinks. 2 deployable at once, 15 spawns per. I can assist an Amarr logi with dropping uplinks just fine. Maybe you need to stop running militia and standard. You know the higher tiers of dropsuit have more bandwidth, right? Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley

7th Son 7 Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 197	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:28:00 - [41] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Clone D wrote: I agree, however, if you expect other roles to "assist" with the logi role, then don't limit their bandwidth so much. Need a little breathing room to do a logi's job and another job. Ya know. I run an advanced assault with advanced uplinks. 2 deployable at once, 15 spawns per. I can assist an Amarr logi with dropping uplinks just fine. Maybe you need to stop running militia and standard. You know the higher tiers of dropsuit have more bandwidth, right? I do the same
Clone D 1293	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:28:00 - [42] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Clone D wrote: I agree, however, if you expect other roles to "assist" with the logi role, then don't limit their bandwidth so much. Need a little breathing room to do a logi's job and another job. Ya know. I run an advanced assault with advanced uplinks. 2 deployable at once, 15 spawns per. I can assist an Amarr logi with dropping uplinks just fine. Maybe you need to stop running militia and standard. You know the higher tiers of dropsuit have more bandwidth, right? Yes, to resolve team uplink problems, I deploy 4 proto uplinks and then change into a proto assault suit. Still, there is an expectation for other roles to pitch in. That is what I'm saying. Many other roles are expected to be a logi helper in addition to the role that they perform. We need an additional degree of freedom in order to do two jobs at once.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6281	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:31:00 - [43] - Quote Clone D wrote: Yes, to resolve team uplink problems, I deploy 4 proto uplinks and then change into a proto assault suit. Still, there is an expectation for other roles to pitch in. That is what I'm saying. Many other roles are expected to be a logi helper in addition to the role that they perform. We need an additional degree of freedom in order to do two jobs at once. I know what you are trying to complain about, but really, when you boil it all down you are upset because your teammates are not pulling their weight. At first, you were upset at specifically logi teammates, but then we pointed out that several dropsuits can fit uplinks. It's not logis that aren't pulling their weight, it's the team itself. Want a stronger team... Wait for it... Here it comes... Get in a squad with 5 other mercs and coordinate your equipment loadouts. You say that for technical reasons you can't squad up. Get those issues worked out then come back to Dust 514. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
Aidualc LATINOS KILLERS CORP Dark Taboo 32	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:32:00 - [44] - Quote Clone D wrote: Logis pushed for sole propriety over equipment. They got it, and now what? Logis are doing the one thing that they know how to do. Latch onto a heavy and hold R1 for the remainder of the match. Do your jobs logis. If you see a battlefield with all red letters and no friendly uplinks, then you didn't do your job. Learn how to prevent that. A Logi is not a Rep-tool slave... so there are no logis... I-¦m a Logi, Gallente one, my "work" is scan the map... to see the enemy position. also I-¦m do the derpship..., put uplinks, rep... and stab clones with a nano inyect.... BUT I have a scout that also drops a link or stab clones... IF you are a "assault", put a droplink, or nano inject... not only nano hives... A real Logi is bring SUPPORT. not do the other roles jobs. I have never see a scout... "scouting..." there are like a slim ninjas with a shotgun or knives doing the ASSAULT JOB.
Clone D 1294	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:41:00 - [45] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: You say that for technical reasons you can't squad up. Get those issues worked out then come back to Dust 514. This is the kind of elitist exclusion that the n.a.z.i.s believed in. If you didn't meet their criteria, then you were exterminated. They had a eugenics program to propagate the perfect race. If you can't make room for people who are different than you are, then I have to say that either you have failed to achieve complete cognitive development, or you fall into the political position called fascism. I'm different than you. There is a place in the game for me too. <----- Start here.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 367	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:45:00 - [46] - Quote 1. Told you so 2. If you want more than 6 links and good ones at that im not busting out a proto suit for you in a pub match 3. You will accept that militia uplink and like it because that is all you are going to get if im forced to stay as a logi and not allowed to swap to any other suit for any other situation 4. You reap what you sow, now deal with it
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6281	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:46:00 - [47] - Quote Clone D wrote: This is the kind of elitist exclusion that the n.a.z.i.s believed in. If you didn't meet their criteria, then you were exterminated. They had a eugenics program to propagate the perfect race. If you can't make room for people who are different than you are, then I have to say that either you have failed to achieve complete cognitive development, or you fall into the political position called fascism. I'm different than you. There is a place in the game for me too. <----- Start here. And here we arrive at Godwin's Law. Also, way to bypass the profanity fitler. No one is forcing you to run in a squad, just as if no one is forcing you to run solo. You get a few advantages by running solo: you don't have to wait on Mark the logi to get finished eating dinner before you can queue up. You don't need to worry about Scotty dropping one member of the squad out of sink while the rest stay in the queue. In exchange, you lose quite a few capabilities on the battlefield. You are making a choice to solo. Live with it. If the negatives of soloing upset you then find a squad. It's similar to Eve Online actually. You can go completely solo in that game if you like. Run missions, mine asteroids, build ships. It's boring though and you a loner so you lack support. You have to invest in your comrades; trust them, help them, then they help you. TL;DR - You can absolutely solo. It's just ******* stupid. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
LAVALLOIS Nash 403	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:47:00 - [48] - Quote SteelheadPep wrote: .... I agree with most of your points, but i dont care for the way you spell squad. Thor Odinson42 wrote: For logis to work properly they need to be supporting a squad. People would rather solo. Solo logi throwing out links and crossing their fingers for blueberries to show up is a pretty futile effort. No offense, but that is more of an assumption than fact. Ive been doing the solo logi since I started playing. You presume that because im not in a squad that has specifically requested one based on a goal, that I wont be able to properly place it to need the need. Its infact, not the case. I know most of the maps and installations/sockets well, and I have a good idea of not only where to put uplinks for best longevity, but also where the enemy counterattack will come from. I know how to use the Overhead. Ive been using it since i started playing. I can see whos pushing what, where enemy activity is and what needs to go where next. Clone D wrote: I'm different than you. There is a place in the game for me too. <----- Start here. Some people either dont get or dont respect the solo player thing. Nothing to do except keeping being solo and proving them wrong.
Clone D 1294	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:48:00 - [49] - Quote Aidualc wrote: I-¦m a Logi, Gallente one, my "work" is scan the map... to see the enemy position. also I-¦m do the derpship..., put uplinks, rep... and stab clones with a nano inyect.... BUT I have a scout that also drops a link or stab clones... IF you are a "assault", put a droplink, or nano inject... not only nano hives... A real Logi is bring SUPPORT. not do the other roles jobs. I have never see a scout... "scouting..." there are like a slim ninjas with a shotgun or knives doing the ASSAULT JOB. This is what I'm getting at. Other roles ARE EXPECTED TO DO TWO JOBS. Instead of carrying the equipment they need to get their job done, it is expected that they carry equipment to HELP LOGIS DO THEIR JOB. You say you want to bring support but not do the other roles' jobs. I want to be an assault and not do a logi's job. If you want me to do a logi's job in addition to my role, then grant me some additional bandwidth breathing space to do two jobs. Initially, logis were angry because people were doing two jobs, but now they are saying, help us with our support jobs, implying that they need everyone else to perform two jobs because logis can't get the job done. Logis, make up your minds. Do you want the rest of us to do two roles or one role? If one role, then please do your job so that the rest of us don't have to.
Nirwanda Vaughns 1195	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:51:00 - [50] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: For logis to work properly they need to be supporting a squad. People would rather solo. Solo logi throwing out links and crossing their fingers for blueberries to show up is a pretty futile effort. ab-so-fking-lutley amount of times when solo i'll flank round and put a scatter of uplinks in various places surround ing the enemy from all sides yet the dumbass bluedots just spawn right on the front to die just as quickly as the last time and hearign them *** that they're 'stuck' Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner

7th Son 7 Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 198	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:53:00 - [51] - Quote Clone D wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: You say that for technical reasons you can't squad up. Get those issues worked out then come back to Dust 514. This is the kind of elitist exclusion that the n.a.z.i.s believed in. If you didn't meet their criteria, then you were exterminated. They had a eugenics program to propagate the perfect race. If you can't make room for people who are different than you are, then I have to say that either you have failed to achieve complete cognitive development, or you fall into the political position called fascism. I'm different than you. There is a place in the game for me too. <----- Start here. Your not going to let this go are you D? lol, he's only trying to help you focus on a solution to your problem, nothing more. There's a great saying "Spend 10% of your time on the problem and 90% on the solution".
TritusX PH4NT0M5 87	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:54:00 - [52] - Quote Clone, you're just playing all the wrong matches. Everything would be better with me here. As a young, clueless logi, aspiring to be the top of his class, I do whatever I can. I drop uplinks. I put nanohives at my team's common camp/reunion spot. I rep people in that area because they most likely came back wounded. I follow a group of people back into battle with a rep tool and keep them well until the enemy is gone. Oh no! The enemy has destroyed one of my links! Good thing I have a link midway between that one! These days, there simply aren't any logi's at all. In every match I logi'd in, I was either with 1. No logi at all, supported the whole team by myself 2. A squad with their own logi's doing their own thing 3. Too many logi's that don't know what they're doing aka. uplinks in the same spot, etc. Just squad up with a logi. Don't ask him to do anything, just say some random stuff every now and then to keep him in the match with you. Minja and Minlogi at your service
Clone D 1294	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:55:00 - [53] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Clone D wrote: I'm different than you. There is a place in the game for me too. <----- Start here. And here we arrive at Godwin's Law. If you don't want to be considered affiliated with certain political regimes, then lead the conversation with tolerance, inclusion and understanding of cultural differences. I would like to see you behave in this way so we can hold more mature conversations in the future.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1865	Posted - 2015.01.07 20:59:00 - [54] - Quote Clone D wrote: This is what I'm getting at. Other roles ARE EXPECTED TO DO TWO JOBS. Instead of carrying the equipment they need to get their job done, it is expected that they carry equipment to HELP LOGIS DO THEIR JOB. You say you want to bring support but not do the other roles' jobs. I want to be an assault and not do a logi's job. If you want me to do a logi's job in addition to my role, then grant me some additional bandwidth breathing space to do two jobs. Initially, logis were angry because people were doing two jobs, but now they are saying, help us with our support jobs, implying that they need everyone else to perform two jobs because logis can't get the job done. Logis, make up your minds. Do you want the rest of us to do two roles or one role? If one role, then please do your job so that the rest of us don't have to. what equipment do you need to do your job. from what this whole argument is about it seems you need uplinks to do your job. carry some. All Hail Legion
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6281	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:01:00 - [55] - Quote Clone D wrote: If you don't want to be considered affiliated with certain political regimes, then lead the conversation with tolerance, inclusion and understanding of cultural differences. I would like to see you behave in this way so we can hold more mature conversations in the future. I'm not against your solo playstyle, Clone. Really. It's just not the playstyle that suits this game very well. You must realize this by now. Most of the complaints you have had all stem from running solo. Why do you think that is? It's because this game isn't suited for solo play. It's a massive multiplayer online game that features things like squads and corporations; ways for players to come together, not stay apart. I'll draw your attention back to my Eve Online statement: you CAN solo in Eve Online, it's just boring and you hamstring yourself. The same logic holds true in Dust 514. I didn't design the game this way. CCP did. They knew what they were doing. Players who group together continue to play a game much longer than players who run by themselves. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5648	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:03:00 - [56] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: SteelheadPep wrote: .... I agree with most of your points, but i dont care for the way you spell squad. Thor Odinson42 wrote: For logis to work properly they need to be supporting a squad. People would rather solo. Solo logi throwing out links and crossing their fingers for blueberries to show up is a pretty futile effort. No offense, but that is more of an assumption than fact. Ive been doing the solo logi since I started playing. You presume that because im not in a squad that has specifically requested one based on a goal, that I wont be able to properly place it to meet the need. Its infact, not the case. I know most of the maps and installations/sockets well, and I have a good idea of not only where to put uplinks for best longevity, but also where the enemy counterattack will come from. I know how to use the Overhead. Ive been using it since i started playing. I can see whos pushing what, where enemy activity is and what needs to go where next. Clone D wrote: I'm different than you. There is a place in the game for me too. <----- Start here. Some people either dont get or dont respect the solo player thing. Nothing to do except keeping being solo and proving them wrong. If you are a good player you can logi solo, but it isn't likely to be efficient as being in a squad communicating with the players you are supporting. I don't put a disclaimer on every post. I play solo as well. But how about we all get behind finding a better scenario than 5-6 solo players at the bottom of every leaderboard that's going 1-3 with less than 200 WP. I'm being conservative with those numbers too. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5648	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:05:00 - [57] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: For logis to work properly they need to be supporting a squad. People would rather solo. Solo logi throwing out links and crossing their fingers for blueberries to show up is a pretty futile effort. ab-so-fking-lutley amount of times when solo i'll flank round and put a scatter of uplinks in various places surround ing the enemy from all sides yet the dumbass bluedots just spawn right on the front to die just as quickly as the last time and hearign them *** that they're 'stuck' I call it a suicide link. You run near an object, place an uplink and frantically do 360s trying to defend it. Then you notice some ahole has deployed 768 uplinks in elevated positions at least 200 meters from the ground. I know they are all laughing at the try hard below. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Clone D 1294	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:07:00 - [58] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Clone D wrote: This is what I'm getting at. Other roles ARE EXPECTED TO DO TWO JOBS. Instead of carrying the equipment they need to get their job done, it is expected that they carry equipment to HELP LOGIS DO THEIR JOB. You say you want to bring support but not do the other roles' jobs. I want to be an assault and not do a logi's job. If you want me to do a logi's job in addition to my role, then grant me some additional bandwidth breathing space to do two jobs. Initially, logis were angry because people were doing two jobs, but now they are saying, help us with our support jobs, implying that they need everyone else to perform two jobs because logis can't get the job done. Logis, make up your minds. Do you want the rest of us to do two roles or one role? If one role, then please do your job so that the rest of us don't have to. what equipment do you need to do your job. from what this whole argument is about it seems you need uplinks to do your job. carry some. If I run assault, I want some REs or a nanohive. I don't want to have to carry around an uplink, although for those who do I'm glad that it fits into their equipment slot. Amarr logi is specifically designed to disburse uplinks. I don't want to have to be a redundancy of their role and do it less effectively because an assault doesn't have uplink bonuses, and because I need a different piece of equipment to do my job well.
Clone D 1294	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:20:00 - [59] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Clone D wrote: If you don't want to be considered affiliated with certain political regimes, then lead the conversation with tolerance, inclusion and understanding of cultural differences. I would like to see you behave in this way so we can hold more mature conversations in the future. I'm not against your solo playstyle, Clone. Really. It's just not the playstyle that suits this game very well. You must realize this by now. Most of the complaints you have had all stem from running solo. Why do you think that is? It's because this game isn't suited for solo play. It's a massive multiplayer online game that features things like squads and corporations; ways for players to come together, not stay apart. I'll draw your attention back to my Eve Online statement: you CAN solo in Eve Online, it's just boring and you hamstring yourself. The same logic holds true in Dust 514. I didn't design the game this way. CCP did. They knew what they were doing. Players who group together continue to play a game much longer than players who run by themselves. Yes, while I acknowledge your perspective, the game works just fine for me as a solo player. The core of this conversation is this: Other roles are helping logis do support. Logis are saying that assaults can/should equip an uplink, scouts can/should equip PEs, etc. Clearly if I play as a scout, assault or what have you, and I trade off the equipment I need to perform my role more effectively in favor of an uplink or PEs because I know that logis need help with support, then this shows a break down in the degree to which bandwidth has been implemented (only if it is expected that other roles support logis). If that is the case, then we need bandwidth to reflect that expectation. If it is not the case and everyone should only do one role, then we need logis to do their jobs better and ensure that the equipment distribution appropriately reflects the context of that match. That responsibility is somewhat larger than a single squad. It is a team level need.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5650	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:21:00 - [60] - Quote Clone D wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Clone D wrote: This is what I'm getting at. Other roles ARE EXPECTED TO DO TWO JOBS. Instead of carrying the equipment they need to get their job done, it is expected that they carry equipment to HELP LOGIS DO THEIR JOB. You say you want to bring support but not do the other roles' jobs. I want to be an assault and not do a logi's job. If you want me to do a logi's job in addition to my role, then grant me some additional bandwidth breathing space to do two jobs. Initially, logis were angry because people were doing two jobs, but now they are saying, help us with our support jobs, implying that they need everyone else to perform two jobs because logis can't get the job done. Logis, make up your minds. Do you want the rest of us to do two roles or one role? If one role, then please do your job so that the rest of us don't have to. what equipment do you need to do your job. from what this whole argument is about it seems you need uplinks to do your job. carry some. If I run assault, I want some REs or a nanohive. I don't want to have to carry around an uplink, although for those who do I'm glad that it fits into their equipment slot. Amarr logi is specifically designed to disburse uplinks. I don't want to have to be a redundancy of their role and do it less effectively because an assault doesn't have uplink bonuses, and because I need a different piece of equipment to do my job well. What if the other 15 players that spawned in with you solo all play with the exact same fitting and playstyle that you do? This is the problem with having so many solo players. What if there are 3 dudes that just happen to be trying out tanks for the first time? Same match there are 3 dudes in a Gorgon trying to get kill assists for their daily missions, etc. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.

Omega Black Zero Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 151	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:25:00 - [61] - Quote Amarr link / laser logi is a pretty good combo, especially on open maps. Drop links behind zergling rush, use LR primarily to drop shields for the CR and RR users. If you get good, it's a good alternative to repping, especially if you've capped in that particular moment. The primary goal should be to protect the spawn points that you drop, since those are your money maker. I also don't bring a needle, carry two sets of links and a rep tool.
7th Son 7 Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 199	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:29:00 - [62] - Quote D you are too much lol, this is the last thing I will say on the topic. D, I don't FEEL like doing alot of the things required of me to win a match, but I do it. I don't WANT to have to spend 200,000 isk for my python to go clear off roof tops, but I do it. Instead of getting mad(because I think there's way better pilots than me), I do it. The battlefields change and so should we.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1867	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:29:00 - [63] - Quote Clone D wrote: If I run assault, I want some REs or a nanohive. I don't want to have to carry around an uplink, although for those who do I'm glad that it fits into their equipment slot. Amarr logi is specifically designed to disburse uplinks. I don't want to have to be a redundancy of their role and do it less effectively because an assault doesn't have uplink bonuses, and because I need a different piece of equipment to do my job well. i always run with links but not all suits have 4 slots and they dont always carry multiple uplinks. they have to compromise somewhere just like you have to compromise by not running in a squad with logistics support. its all compromise and spreading the gear out between you. you entire argument could be boiled down to logistics are not doing their job because they are not repairing everyone on the team, they are not doing their job because they are not picking up every downed clone, they are not doing their job because they are not supplying ammo to every player, they are not doing their job because every objective is not covered in re and every vehicle is not destroyed by proximity mines, they are not doing their job because every enemy has not been scanned and your argument is they are not doing their job because they are not deploying load of uplinks. if there is an uplink logi on your team then there is no issue. if there is no uplink logi on your team then you have no logi. you need to sort it out yourself not blame a logi that isnt even in your team. All Hail Legion
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6282	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:31:00 - [64] - Quote Clone D wrote: Yes, while I acknowledge your perspective, the game works just fine for me as a solo player. Obviously it doesn't or you would not be posting these brilliant threads every few days. Clone D wrote: Clearly if I play as a scout, assault or what have you, and I trade off the equipment I need to perform my role more effectively in favor of an uplink or PEs because I know that logis need help with support, then this shows a break down in the degree to which bandwidth has been implemented (only if it is expected that other roles support logis). If that is the case, then we need bandwidth to reflect that expectation. If it is not the case and everyone should only do one role, then we need logis to do their jobs better and ensure that the equipment distribution appropriately reflects the context of that match. That responsibility is somewhat larger than a single squad. It is a team level need. This is what I gathered from these two paragraphis: Drop uplinks could use an increase in number of spawns. Exact numbers aren't clear at this time. Might require some examination of the current spawn allotments before I can say this is a sure thing. There needs to be more logi players in squads Amarr and Caldari (the deployable logis) might need more bandwidth No other dropsuit needs more bandwidth, so that logis remain the best at deploying equipment Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
Clone D 1294	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:34:00 - [65] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Clone D wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Clone D wrote: This is what I'm getting at. Other roles ARE EXPECTED TO DO TWO JOBS. Instead of carrying the equipment they need to get their job done, it is expected that they carry equipment to HELP LOGIS DO THEIR JOB. You say you want to bring support but not do the other roles' jobs. I want to be an assault and not do a logi's job. If you want me to do a logi's job in addition to my role, then grant me some additional bandwidth breathing space to do two jobs. Initially, logis were angry because people were doing two jobs, but now they are saying, help us with our support jobs, implying that they need everyone else to perform two jobs because logis can't get the job done. Logis, make up your minds. Do you want the rest of us to do two roles or one role? If one role, then please do your job so that the rest of us don't have to. what equipment do you need to do your job. from what this whole argument is about it seems you need uplinks to do your job. carry some. If I run assault, I want some REs or a nanohive. I don't want to have to carry around an uplink, although for those who do I'm glad that it fits into their equipment slot. Amarr logi is specifically designed to disburse uplinks. I don't want to have to be a redundancy of their role and do it less effectively because an assault doesn't have uplink bonuses, and because I need a different piece of equipment to do my job well. What if the other 15 players that spawned in with you solo all play with the exact same fitting and playstyle that you do? This is the problem with having so many solo players. What if there are 3 dudes that just happen to be trying out tanks for the first time? Same match there are 3 dudes in a Gorgon trying to get kill assists for their daily missions, etc. I have found good solo players to be highly resourceful, trying to figure things out and solve problems, and adapt to various situations, comfortably filling in the gaps where the team is hurting. My in game observations have shown that a squadded player is more apt to be pigeonholed within the squad. Who knows whether a squadded or solo player would be more likely to divert from the desired role to meet the need of the team, but a solo player is not subject to a squad leader's decisions and is at liberty to spontaneously change roles. If there are no logis on the team, then I must bite the bullet, admit that there is a need and I have the potential to meet that need, so I ... must ... ... logi because the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the few or the one. But I just got suckered into playing a role that I do not want to play for the remainder of the match.
Clone D 1294	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:39:00 - [66] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Clone D wrote: If I run assault, I want some REs or a nanohive. I don't want to have to carry around an uplink, although for those who do I'm glad that it fits into their equipment slot. Amarr logi is specifically designed to disburse uplinks. I don't want to have to be a redundancy of their role and do it less effectively because an assault doesn't have uplink bonuses, and because I need a different piece of equipment to do my job well. i always run with links but not all suits have 4 slots and they dont always carry multiple uplinks. they have to compromise somewhere just like you have to compromise by not running in a squad with logistics support. its all compromise and spreading the gear out between you. you entire argument could be boiled down to logistics are not doing their job because they are not repairing everyone on the team, they are not doing their job because they are not picking up every downed clone, they are not doing their job because they are not supplying ammo to every player, they are not doing their job because every objective is not covered in re and every vehicle is not destroyed by proximity mines, they are not doing their job because every enemy has not been scanned and your argument is they are not doing their job because they are not deploying load of uplinks. if there is an uplink logi on your team then there is no issue. if there is no uplink logi on your team then you have no logi. you need to sort it out yourself not blame a logi that isnt even in your team. All of the above. I used to be able to handle all of that myself, but now logis want me to rely on them. They're not doing it, so I'm saying that they're not doing their jobs. If logis were performing all of the tasks that you described, I would be so happy.
Clone D 1294	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:41:00 - [67] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Clone D wrote: Yes, while I acknowledge your perspective, the game works just fine for me as a solo player. Obviously it doesn't or you would not be posting these brilliant threads every few days. Clone D wrote: Clearly if I play as a scout, assault or what have you, and I trade off the equipment I need to perform my role more effectively in favor of an uplink or PEs because I know that logis need help with support, then this shows a break down in the degree to which bandwidth has been implemented (only if it is expected that other roles support logis). If that is the case, then we need bandwidth to reflect that expectation. If it is not the case and everyone should only do one role, then we need logis to do their jobs better and ensure that the equipment distribution appropriately reflects the context of that match. That responsibility is somewhat larger than a single squad. It is a team level need. This is what I gathered from these two paragraphis: Drop uplinks could use an increase in number of spawns. Exact numbers aren't clear at this time. Might require some examination of the current spawn allotments before I can say this is a sure thing. There needs to be more logi players in squads Amarr and Caldari (the deployable logis) might need more bandwidth No other dropsuit needs more bandwidth, so that logis remain the best at deploying equipment Hold on, first we need a committal community consensus indicating either: 1. Every other role is expected to help logis do their role and pitch in OR 2. Every role is expected to exclusively do what is directly related to their own functional jurisdiction.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6283	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:43:00 - [68] - Quote Clone D wrote: My in game observations have shown that a squadded player is more apt to be pigeonholed within the squad.Who knows whether a squadded or solo player would be more likely to divert from the desired role to meet the need of the team, but a solo player is not subject to a squad leader's decisions and is at liberty to spontaneously change roles. If there are no logis on the team, then I must bite the bullet, admit that there is a need and I have the potential to meet that need, so I ... must ... ... logi because the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the few or the one. But I just got suckered into playing a role that I do not want to play for the remainder of the match. How do you make in game observation of squadded players when you aren't in squads? Supposedly your PS3 will explode into shards of obsidian if you even lightly hover over the Invite to Squad button Let's pretend that you have been in a squad once or twice. It's obvious that you spend the majority of your time solo. You have no idea how well squads can run when they are populated by players who work well together. Squadded players can change roles just as easily as an unsquadded player. We can do so quickly due to having immediate feedback from our squadmates. "Sentinels in the hallway." So a mate changes to a sentinel fitting of his own. "Scouts around alpha." So a mate switchs to an Amarr scout fitted for scan range. "That ADS is hovering around the supply depot." The AV guy moves from alpha to the supply depot to harass the ADS. You get the idea. You are talking about things you have no clue about. Clone D wrote: 1. Every other role is expected to help logis do their role and pitch in OR 2. Every role is expected to exclusively do what is directly related to their own functional jurisdiction. Everyone is expected to help, to one extent or another, with another classes' role so long as doing so does not cause a role to become obsolete. Such as in the case of logi-tourism that occurred up until the point where bandwidth was introduced. So 1, but with amendments. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
PARKOUR PRACTIONER G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 2416	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:53:00 - [69] - Quote Clone D. Either you have come up with an extremely high form of trolling. Or your too far gone to be helped. Sides usually scouts run links/hunt links just in case. Then the Amarr logi sets some as well. PSN Sil4ntChaozz/Protofits Silent Chaozz Non-Cloak Lone Wolf Scout GLF Gk.0 2COM SH 2COM PD 2COM KC DSSG BSMG F/45
Clone D 1294	Posted - 2015.01.07 21:54:00 - [70] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: How do you make in game observation of squadded players when you aren't in squads? Supposedly your PS3 will explode into shards of obsidian if you even lightly hover over the Invite to Squad button Let's pretend that you have been in a squad once or twice. It's obvious that you spend the majority of your time solo. You have no idea how well squads can run when they are populated by players who work well together. Squadded players can change roles just as easily as an unsquadded player. We can do so quickly due to having immediate feedback from our squadmates. "Sentinels in the hallway." So a mate changes to a sentinel fitting of his own. "Scouts around alpha." So a mate switchs to an Amarr scout fitted for scan range. "That ADS is hovering around the supply depot." The AV guy moves from alpha to the supply depot to harass the ADS. You get the idea. You are talking about things you have no clue about. I see, you have a malleable squad composition. Please dial down the obstinance. I have squadded hundreds of times with highly functional, even superior, squads; OP squads. I have squad experience with peeps who strictly call out every tactical event to more easy going groups of guys who are simply awesome. Through enduring nearly a year of patiently troubleshooting and purchasing various hardware upgrades, making configuration adjustments and cooperatively trying to resolve my technical issues with other kind and helpful players, I have resolved to play solo. I have a clue. I am not stabbing blindly in the dark here.

Clone D 1294	Posted - 2015.01.07 22:00:00 - [71] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: Sides usually scouts run links/hunt links just in case. Then the Amarr logi sets some as well. It depends on what the scout wants to do. Infiltration: carry uplink + REs Hunter: carry hives + REs etc. My position is that if everyone is expected to lend a hand to logis, then we should be granted some bandwidth buffer to do both our job and theirs.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1735	Posted - 2015.01.07 22:04:00 - [72] - Quote Clone D wrote: Logis pushed for sole propriety over equipment. They got it, and now what? There are many more matches without any uplinks on the field whatsoever. Proximity explosives are a thing of the past because logis have better things to do? Logis are doing the one thing that they know how to do. Latch onto a heavy and hold R1 for the remainder of the match. Do your jobs logis. If you see a battlefield with all red letters and no friendly uplinks, then you didn't do your job. Learn how to prevent that. Don't make me stop assaulting and capturing objectives, because you don't know how to do your job, so that I can do it for you. I do not remember ever seeing Logis push for bandwidth. Bandwidth was a knee jerk reaction to the forums whining that equipment spam was causing lag. Now with no equipment on the field frame rates still suck and lag has not changed. GG CCP GG
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3588	Posted - 2015.01.07 22:07:00 - [73] - Quote Flint Beastgood III wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: long post with good points Yeah, TEAM communication is not where it needs to be to really achieve this, until we get Team Deploy it's a lost cause. What I'd like is to have an uplink MODULE to fit on my suit. Or an auto-link-on-Squad-Leader feature, like other games where you have the option to spawn on your squad leader. Thank you, although personally I would prefer a greater focus on vehicles and giving them a much greater role, either as transport or a spawn point. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Clone D 1294	Posted - 2015.01.07 22:19:00 - [74] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Clone D wrote: My in game observations have shown that a squadded player is more apt to be pigeonholed within the squad.Who knows whether a squadded or solo player would be more likely to divert from the desired role to meet the need of the team, but a solo player is not subject to a squad leader's decisions and is at liberty to spontaneously change roles. If there are no logis on the team, then I must bite the bullet, admit that there is a need and I have the potential to meet that need, so I ... must ... ... logi because the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the few or the one. But I just got suckered into playing a role that I do not want to play for the remainder of the match. How do you make in game observation of squadded players when you aren't in squads? Supposedly your PS3 will explode into shards of obsidian if you even lightly hover over the Invite to Squad button Let's pretend that you have been in a squad once or twice. It's obvious that you spend the majority of your time solo. You have no idea how well squads can run when they are populated by players who work well together. Squadded players can change roles just as easily as an unsquadded player. We can do so quickly due to having immediate feedback from our squadmates. "Sentinels in the hallway." So a mate changes to a sentinel fitting of his own. "Scouts around alpha." So a mate switches to an Amarr scout fitted for scan range. "That ADS is hovering around the supply depot." The AV guy moves from alpha to the supply depot to harass the ADS. You get the idea. You are talking about things you have no clue about. Clone D wrote: 1. Every other role is expected to help logis do their role and pitch in OR 2. Every role is expected to exclusively do what is directly related to their own functional jurisdiction. Everyone is expected to help, to one extent or another, with another classes' role so long as doing so does not cause a role to become obsolete. Such as in the case of logi-tourism that occurred up until the point where bandwidth was introduced. So 1, but with amendments. Okay, now we're making headway Let's say I want to play a hunter scout role with nanohives and REs, but I see that the team needs some logi support in terms of uplinks (we'll keep it to uplinks for now). I am using a STD scout suit, so 6 BW should be devoted to my scout role. Because I want to help the logis, not take over, just help, let's say that I want to set one uplink and yet continue to perform the role that I want to play. An uplink takes up 4 of my BW. That's 4 BW that I really don't want to use up, but I have to because we need support outside of the role I have chosen. Later, when I change back into my hunter scout I still need to be able to set at least 2 REs simultaneously. I can't do that at the STD scout level with the current bandwidth constraint. We need to loosen BW up a little bit if we expect everyone to help the logis out. In this case perhaps 12 bw would be more appropriate for a scout. Perhaps 4 bw would be appropriate for a heavy. Giving a margin of transference between roles might be exactly what BW needs in order to make it a more comfortable player experience, especially when we all need to pitch in to help the logis and support the team. So, maybe somebody says, "Well use a proto scout." In accordance with the BW premise, the 12 BW should be reserved for the role for which it was intended, not partially devoted to another role. It doesn't deserve to have 4 BW taken away because logis need help populating the map with uplinks. Those 4 BW should fall within the margin of what we deem is an acceptable supporting contribution. The margin of supporting contribution should be granted in addition to the bare minimum BW that is required to perform any given role.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 6291	Posted - 2015.01.07 22:27:00 - [75] - Quote Sentinels get 0 bandwidth. Scouts bandwidth stays the same too. Assault, logi, and commando are up for discussion. Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley. @Ripley_Riley
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 96	Posted - 2015.01.07 23:03:00 - [76] - Quote Clone D wrote: Logis pushed for sole propriety over equipment. They got it, and now what? There are many more matches without any uplinks on the field whatsoever. Proximity explosives are a thing of the past because logis have better things to do? Logis are doing the one thing that they know how to do. Latch onto a heavy and hold R1 for the remainder of the match. Do your jobs logis. If you see a battlefield with all red letters and no friendly uplinks, then you didn't do your job. Learn how to prevent that. Don't make me stop assaulting and capturing objectives, because you don't know how to do your job, so that I can do it for you. [EDIT] Key concept "margin of supporting contribution" found on page 4. As I sit in the redline in a lawn chair with a cooler of beer I find that offensive!! But no seriously find your squad a dedicated logi guy. Some people like the scout, others do the slayer role. Besides your thoughts about logis doing they're job I've read forum postings of people wining that logis should kill more while repping, dropping uplinks and using nanite injectors. I'm like really!? Besides not being built for slaying the only suit to literally carry all the equipment you would want is proto. I've got two advanced fittings of which one has a drop uplink and another has a nanohive. As far as a battlefield with all red letters do you wish for one player to teleport across that battlefield to place uplinks? Maybe you should do your job and push forward so the logis can and in doing so place closer uplinks?
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 704	Posted - 2015.01.07 23:04:00 - [77] - Quote yawn LOL Good. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 96	Posted - 2015.01.08 00:31:00 - [78] - Quote Clone D wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Clone D wrote: If you don't want to be considered affiliated with certain political regimes, then lead the conversation with tolerance, inclusion and understanding of cultural differences. I would like to see you behave in this way so we can hold more mature conversations in the future. I'm not against your solo playstyle, Clone. Really. It's just not the playstyle that suits this game very well. You must realize this by now. Most of the complaints you have had all stem from running solo. Why do you think that is? It's because this game isn't suited for solo play. It's a massive multiplayer online game that features things like squads and corporations; ways for players to come together, not stay apart. I'll draw your attention back to my Eve Online statement: you CAN solo in Eve Online, it's just boring and you hamstring yourself. The same logic holds true in Dust 514. I didn't design the game this way. CCP did. They knew what they were doing. Players who group together continue to play a game much longer than players who run by themselves. Yes, while I acknowledge your perspective, the game works just fine for me as a solo player. The core of this conversation is this: Other roles are helping logis do support. Logis are saying that assaults can/should equip an uplink, scouts can/should equip PEs, etc. Clearly if I play as a scout, assault or what have you, and I trade off the equipment I need to perform my role more effectively in favor of an uplink or PEs because I know that logis need help with support, then this shows a break down in the degree to which bandwidth has been implemented (only if it is expected that other roles support logis). If that is the case, then we need bandwidth to reflect that expectation. If it is not the case and everyone should only do one role, then we need logis to do their jobs better and ensure that the equipment distribution appropriately reflects the context of that match. That responsibility is somewhat larger than a single squad. It is a team level need. Under your logic a logi should not have a gun because they are support. I as a logi usually stick with my squad because I am moire effective and I cannot support an entire team on one map and give everyone what they want. If I ran solo in ambush just playing a few quick games I'll support whomever I am around.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 96	Posted - 2015.01.08 00:34:00 - [79] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Clone D wrote: If I run assault, I want some REs or a nanohive. I don't want to have to carry around an uplink, although for those who do I'm glad that it fits into their equipment slot. Amarr logi is specifically designed to disburse uplinks. I don't want to have to be a redundancy of their role and do it less effectively because an assault doesn't have uplink bonuses, and because I need a different piece of equipment to do my job well. i always run with links but not all suits have 4 slots and they dont always carry multiple uplinks. they have to compromise somewhere just like you have to compromise by not running in a squad with logistics support. its all compromise and spreading the gear out between you. you entire argument could be boiled down to logistics are not doing their job because they are not repairing everyone on the team, they are not doing their job because they are not picking up every downed clone, they are not doing their job because they are not supplying ammo to every player, they are not doing their job because every objective is not covered in re and every vehicle is not destroyed by proximity mines, they are not doing their job because every enemy has not been scanned and your argument is they are not doing their job because they are not deploying load of uplinks. if there is an uplink logi on your team then there is no issue. if there is no uplink logi on your team then you have no logi. you need to sort it out yourself not blame a logi that isnt even in your team. Thank you. o/
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 96	Posted - 2015.01.08 00:49:00 - [80] - Quote Clone D wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Clone D wrote: If I run assault, I want some REs or a nanohive. I don't want to have to carry around an uplink, although for those who do I'm glad that it fits into their equipment slot. Amarr logi is specifically designed to disburse uplinks. I don't want to have to be a redundancy of their role and do it less effectively because an assault doesn't have uplink bonuses, and because I need a different piece of equipment to do my job well. i always run with links but not all suits have 4 slots and they dont always carry multiple uplinks. they have to compromise somewhere just like you have to compromise by not running in a squad with logistics support. its all compromise and spreading the gear out between you. you entire argument could be boiled down to logistics are not doing their job because they are not repairing everyone on the team, they are not doing their job because they are not picking up every downed clone, they are not doing their job because they are not supplying ammo to every player, they are not doing their job because every objective is not covered in re and every vehicle is not destroyed by proximity mines, they are not doing their job because every enemy has not been scanned and your argument is they are not doing their job because they are not deploying load of uplinks. if there is an uplink logi on your team then there is no issue. if there is no uplink logi on your team then you have no logi. you need to sort it out yourself not blame a logi that isnt even in your team. All of the above. I used to be able to handle all of that myself, but now logis want me to rely on them. They're not doing it, so I'm saying that they're not doing their jobs. If logis were performing all of the tasks that you described, I would be so happy. Oh my god this thread is useless! Look, many people like to squad up, some like the solo gig. Play the game how you want. If you squad with people you can usually find a dedicated person to drop links and a group of people willing to fulfill certain roles. As far as the argument about logis feeling only they should carry equipment, who said this and when? As I recall some felt the bandwidth limitations would A. Reduce drop uplinks and nano hive spam and B. Reduce lag. Now these changes certainly put the focus on logis to step up to a need in the battlefield and reward people who played the role well rather than allowing people to play 2 roles by busting out a logi suit, drop equipment and running to the supply deposit too switch to a slayer suit. If you want people to support you, squad up so people can help you. Blueberries without coms are not psychic and cannot hear or predict what you will need. Even if a solo player such as a logi isn't with a squad they will probably push forward with the team. Who babysits a drop uplink??

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 707	Posted - 2015.01.08 00:57:00 - [81] - Quote TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: Who babysits a drop uplink?? SpawnCampers. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Zindorak Nyain Chan General Tso's Alliance 1587	Posted - 2015.01.08 01:43:00 - [82] - Quote Beggars can't be choosers man. If you want links THAT badly go place em yourself Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 96	Posted - 2015.01.08 02:02:00 - [83] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: Who babysits a drop uplink?? SpawnCampers. I was referring to the idea of anyone babysitting their own.
Clone D 1295	Posted - 2015.01.08 03:18:00 - [84] - Quote TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: Who babysits a drop uplink?? SpawnCampers. I was referring to the idea of anyone babysitting their own. If you're not ensuring the safety of your uplinks, then you're creating a spawn trap for your team mates. It will get camped, etc. When you place an uplink, put it in a secure spot. If you are uncertain as to its safety, then personally guard it.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1450	Posted - 2015.01.08 05:05:00 - [85] - Quote Clone D wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I find it more odd that blueberries that are sniping aren't able to see the 10 dudes on the pipes dropping remotes. Or the 4 dropships flying around with no AV to be seen. Right on... To me, the primary difference is that snipers didn't push to be the only role to have the right to kill infantry. Logis did push hard to hold primary domain over equipment, thereby restricting other roles from interfering with their WP grubbing. However, now we see evidence that logis are not supporting the team very well. I don't think that they can handle the responsibility alone. In order for me to make things right, I am forced to stop performing the Assault\|Scout\|Point Defense\|AV role I want to do, change into a logi and perform their role for them because they are incapable. Then, I am forced to remain in that role, which super sucks because I don't want to be a logi period. Logis said, "We've got this under control. You don't neeeeed the ability to deploy multiple equipment." I guess they were wrong, and they can't cope with the responisibility. Ever stop and think that maybe what you are seeing is actually how few logi's are really out there? "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Reign Omega T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K General Tso's Alliance 1060	Posted - 2015.01.08 05:22:00 - [86] - Quote I have 2 types of logi fits, the medic and the mobile command unit. The first obviously has reps, needle and ammo/rep hives, for the basic slugfest. The second is designed to set up strong positions with uplinks, a scanner, and reps for a big push f4om the outskirts. I try to only use flux uplinks for faster spawns and I'm very cautious about guarding the link until significant reinforcement spawns in. Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
Mudvayne-3324 Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 22	Posted - 2015.01.08 05:24:00 - [87] - Quote @Clone D, you really have never played a logo have you? You can't expect one logo to put up uplinks, rep the entire team, as well as capture objectives. You need to quit blaming the quality of logos and start blaming the lack thereof. Sounds like you want logos to do everything and collect a check. You keep your logo alive and he will keep you alive. I've played just about every role in battle, not just pubs either, even PCs. You can't rely on a set class too much. If your logo becomes overwhelmed, he can't do ***. It isn't the logos, it's the lack of logos causing the issues. Just because you see people running around in proro logo suits doesn't mean they are true logis. The bandwidth "fix" didn't help either. Before, I could fly in my ship and plant tons of links on every point. Now I can barely throw out hives, let along links. Your hatred is towards the wrong people. > Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet getting the work done.* -Linus Torvalds
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game RUST415 1877	Posted - 2015.01.08 05:37:00 - [88] - Quote Clone D wrote: TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: TIGER SHARK1501 wrote: Who babysits a drop uplink?? SpawnCampers. I was referring to the idea of anyone babysitting their own. If you're not ensuring the safety of your uplinks, then you're creating a spawn trap for your team mates. It will get camped, etc. When you place an uplink, put it in a secure spot. If you are uncertain as to its safety, then personally guard it. there is no such thing as a safe spot in dust and you can't spend the whole game protecting uplinks. i know for a fact my logistics even at proto is barely capable of protecting itself let alone several pieces of equipment lying on the ground in different locations. my job is to give players options for them to choose where and when they spawn. All Hail Legion
Jeanne D'Arc IV Red Star. 35	Posted - 2015.01.08 06:02:00 - [89] - Quote Bandwith is perfect tbh its logic and make game better by far
Lady MDK Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 244	Posted - 2015.01.08 06:09:00 - [90] - Quote Team player complains about lack of logis doing proper job but doesn't go logi or ask in squad for someone to do the job. Whinges on forum instead..... Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following. I don't care so neither should you :)

Jeanne D'Arc IV Red Star. 35	Posted - 2015.01.08 06:12:00 - [91] - Quote I will reitere my old idea, make equipment with different db Std proto link 20 spawn proto links avoid std scanner 15 spawn proto link avoid adv scanner 10 spawn proto links avoof proto scanner 5 spawn has idea
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6193	Posted - 2015.01.08 08:49:00 - [92] - Quote Clone D wrote: Logis pushed for sole propriety over equipment. They got it, and now what? There are many more matches without any uplinks on the field whatsoever. Proximity explosives are a thing of the past because logis have better things to do? Logis are doing the one thing that they know how to do. Latch onto a heavy and hold R1 for the remainder of the match. Do your jobs logis. If you see a battlefield with all red letters and no friendly uplinks, then you didn't do your job. Learn how to prevent that. Don't make me stop assaulting and capturing objectives, because you don't know how to do your job, so that I can do it for you. [EDIT] Key concept "margin of supporting contribution" found on page 4. There never were a lot of dedicated logis. Most of them were tourists. Now we see just how few dedicated logistics players there actually are. Which is hilarious because everyone else treats them like they are valueless. Time to start making nice to people who enjoy support play rather than deriding and trolling them, huh? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1735	Posted - 2015.01.08 09:18:00 - [93] - Quote I played minmatar logi quite long and playing REAL logi for extended amount of time results into being the most boring thing ever. beside that, logis are slow, do not sport good hp and have medium suit ewar only. logis are easy prays for shotgun scouts. other than that, logis print WP nonstop.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1446	Posted - 2015.01.08 11:25:00 - [94] - Quote Clone D wrote: Byozuma Kegawa wrote: Uplinks have short lifespans due to people actually hunting them down, half the time to spawn-camp and the other to actually get rid of it. Proximities have classically been the purview of scouts because logistics have better things to do (like keeping sentinels/squads covered/healthy). A logistics role isn't advancing into held territory without support, that's what scouts do. Logistics are support roles, thus they don't usually travel solo hacking objectives and dropping explosives. And uplinks tend to happen when opportune. 1. If you are a logi and you're setting uplinks in places where they can be camped, and you're not protecting them then YOU ARE MAKING A SPAWN TRAP for your team. Learn how to deploy an uplink. You're not doing your job right. 2. If you are a logi and you have better things to do than set proximity explosives, WHO IS SUPPOSED TO DO IT? Scouts do not have enough bandwidth to deploy an effective mine field. PEs are equipment and belong in the domain of the logis who are designed to deploy equipment. You must be a much better player than me if you can go alone to lay uplinks and then defend them with your logi suit. You are scannable, squishy and probably should be with a squad. Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. BW limited those who sought to be versatile for the sake of those who play the well established roles, proto players and squads. I bring uplinks but I know they have a very limited lifespan and besides trying to place them well, I can no longer do anything else about them Because, that's why.
Clone D 1296	Posted - 2015.01.08 11:27:00 - [95] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. Who is supposed to lay proxies now? Can you describe a strategy that makes sense?
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 126	Posted - 2015.01.08 13:53:00 - [96] - Quote Clone D wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: For logis to work properly they need to be supporting a squad. [...] Sounds lke the logi union catch phrase. NO NO NO. I as an assault have to stop what I'm doing, change into a logi suit, call a dropship and set uplinks around the field, to create a doorway back into battle. IF I CAN DO IT. A LOGI WHO SPECCED INTO THAT ROLE CAN DO IT. Do your jobs logis. catch phrase...excellent! I spawn in with a scout and put them down, I tell my guys "he who has uplinks wins" unless of course your opponents are blue shield laggers. CCP fix your latency.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1449	Posted - 2015.01.08 14:01:00 - [97] - Quote Clone D wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. Who is supposed to lay proxies now? Can you describe a strategy that makes sense? Nope. Because, that's why.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 323	Posted - 2015.01.08 14:18:00 - [98] - Quote Clone D wrote: 7th Son 7 wrote: What's wrong with making an assault suit that has uplinks for those occassions? c'mon man If the field is devoid of uplinks, then logis didn't do their jobs. I am devoting my equipment slot to REs (or a nanohive, since there is never a logi around when you need one). needle, hive, scanner, and nanohives? How exactly is a logi not doing there job? Other suits have equipment slots as well. The uplink is tailored for scouts and assaults (plus amar logi). In many of the PC battles I played in it was everyone's responsibility to run uplinks. Sage /thread
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 126	Posted - 2015.01.08 14:19:00 - [99] - Quote Clone D wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. Who is supposed to lay proxies now? Can you describe a strategy that makes sense? proxies need to be buffed by multitudes, and have a arming timer so that placement is a thoughtful process-with these changes making them a valued piece of kit. I would like to be able to "shape" my zone to a greater degree, and influencing armor via making them be "thoughtful in behavior" would add depth to game play. Uplinks and proxies are hurting, and the latter have always been quasi modo due to being under powered.
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1006	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:13:00 - [100] - Quote Clone D wrote: If there are no logis on the team, then I must bite the bullet, admit that there is a need and I have the potential to meet that need, so I ... must ... ... logi because the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the few or the one. But I just got suckered into playing a role that I do not want to play for the remainder of the match. So, now we finally come to the real issue. It's not that "logis aren't doing their jobs" it's that there aren't enough people running logi. Or at least, based on my experience, not enough people not running some ****** APEX (logi) suit. Oh, I know that there are plenty of matches where very little equipment is placed. But while bandwidth has limited some of the previous logi tourism, it is pretty obvious that so many people running APEX suits (and it wouldn't surprise me if logistics commit this sin more than any other role, for obvious reasons) has a lot to do with it as well. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"

Jay Westen Sky-FIRE 147	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:28:00 - [101] - Quote Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you.
Clone D 1298	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:36:00 - [102] - Quote Jay Westen wrote: Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you. That is fine. I don't need your support. But the team does. Don't neglect everyone else please. Keep your lack of support between us. Thanks.
Clone D 1298	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:39:00 - [103] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: Clone D wrote: If there are no logis on the team, then I must bite the bullet, admit that there is a need and I have the potential to meet that need, so I ... must ... ... logi because the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the few or the one. But I just got suckered into playing a role that I do not want to play for the remainder of the match. So, now we finally come to the real issue. It's not that "logis aren't doing their jobs" it's that there aren't enough people actually playing logi. Or at least, based on my experience, not enough people not running some ****** APEX (logi) suit. Oh, I know that there are plenty of matches where very little equipment is placed. But while bandwidth has limited some of the previous logi tourism, it is pretty obvious that so many people running APEX suits (and it wouldn't surprise me if logistics commit this sin more than any other role, for obvious reasons) has a lot to do with it as well. Exactly, so since there are a shortage of logis, we need to add some bandwidth buffer to other roles in order for them to help logis deploy a little extra equipment on the field. Not a lot, just one additional uplink or so ought to do it. That way, all other roles aren't sacrificing the equipment that they need in order to perform their role just to help logis distribute equipment.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 708	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:41:00 - [104] - Quote Jay Westen wrote: Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you. And here we have the Golden Heart of the matter. For the Algebraically inclined who missed the formula, here it is: x= talking ** about Logis/Logistics y= BandWidth limits forced on Logis z=Logi suits being largely underpowered W= fewer people giving a about supporting scrubs. W= x(z+y)** Tears for everyone!! Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 708	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:43:00 - [105] - Quote Clone D wrote: Jay Westen wrote: Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you. That is fine. I don't need your support. But the team does. Don't neglect everyone else please. Keep your lack of support between us. Thanks. Maybe you should slay more, faster, so that the little support you do get isn't squandered. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 708	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:45:00 - [106] - Quote Clone D wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: Clone D wrote: If there are no logis on the team, then I must bite the bullet, admit that there is a need and I have the potential to meet that need, so I ... must ... ... logi because the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the few or the one. But I just got suckered into playing a role that I do not want to play for the remainder of the match. So, now we finally come to the real issue. It's not that "logis aren't doing their jobs" it's that there aren't enough people actually playing logi. Or at least, based on my experience, not enough people not running some ****** APEX (logi) suit. Oh, I know that there are plenty of matches where very little equipment is placed. But while bandwidth has limited some of the previous logi tourism, it is pretty obvious that so many people running APEX suits (and it wouldn't surprise me if logistics commit this sin more than any other role, for obvious reasons) has a lot to do with it as well. Exactly, so since there are a shortage of logis, we need to add some bandwidth buffer to other roles in order for them to help logis deploy a little extra equipment on the field. Not a lot, just one additional uplink or so ought to do it. That way, all other roles aren't sacrificing the equipment that they need in order to perform their role just to help logis distribute equipment. No, because SPAM. And tourists. And crappy slayer tears are actually good. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Jay Westen Sky-FIRE 147	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:52:00 - [107] - Quote Clone D wrote: Jay Westen wrote: Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you. That is fine. I don't need your support. But the team does. Don't neglect everyone else please. Keep your lack of support between us. Thanks. Regrettably, me not supporting you means I don't uplink, and nanohive either. You should really think before you speak.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5081	Posted - 2015.01.08 18:11:00 - [108] - Quote Ok, let's try this, OP. Lets say we buff proxies and change the BW to 1. RE's also get a BW cost of 1. Now whats your opinion? (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
Clone D 1298	Posted - 2015.01.08 18:20:00 - [109] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Ok, let's try this, OP. Lets say we buff proxies and change the BW to 1. RE's also get a BW cost of 1. Now whats your opinion? Would be so sweet!
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6214	Posted - 2015.01.08 18:22:00 - [110] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Ok, let's try this, OP. Lets say we buff proxies and change the BW to 1. RE's also get a BW cost of 1. Now whats your opinion? Enemy engaged. Kill him Johnny boy! On a more serious note: No more asslogi lite suits for clone D! Every time you agree with clone D, god kills a kitten. Think of the kittens. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 711	Posted - 2015.01.08 18:27:00 - [111] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Ok, let's try this, OP. Lets say we buff proxies and change the BW to 1. RE's also get a BW cost of 1. Now whats your opinion? More scout RE spam, YAY!! Munson be praised!!! Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 716	Posted - 2015.01.08 18:29:00 - [112] - Quote Clone D wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. Who is supposed to lay proxies now? Can you describe a strategy that makes sense? Amarr AV Logis. Close the Gates! Ignite the Moat!! Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 96	Posted - 2015.01.08 23:51:00 - [113] - Quote Clone D wrote: Jay Westen wrote: Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you. That is fine. I don't need your support. But the team does. Don't neglect everyone else please. Keep your lack of support between us. Thanks. Ah ha ha! Says the lone wolf, won't squad with anyone player.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 96	Posted - 2015.01.09 00:04:00 - [114] - Quote Clone D wrote: Jay Westen wrote: Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you. That is fine. I don't need your support. But the team does. Don't neglect everyone else please. Keep your lack of support between us. Thanks. Clearly you do because your inferring that if the team fails you fail. Step up to the plate or quit wining about the lack of dedicated logis. Your logic is so flawed.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5085	Posted - 2015.01.09 07:09:00 - [115] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Ok, let's try this, OP. Lets say we buff proxies and change the BW to 1. RE's also get a BW cost of 1. Now whats your opinion? Enemy engaged. Kill him Johnny boy! grabs controller R-L-R-spin Oh wait, wrong one... Anyway, so here's the thing OP. You're doing it wrong. I already pretty much knew the answer. We've simoly confirmed the truth. BW is not the problem here. Neither are all the "bad logis" running around (I'll get to that in a second. Edit: in another thread). You're just spamming all these needless flame bait threads and looking like an unreasonable troll. Not that thats new and unprecedented, but you either don't realize or aren't even asking for what it is you really want! You are either a very accomplished troll setting us up for your actual request or have made all this wasted effort asking for the wrong thing. My advice? Realize that all you really want is not only fairly simple but also far more palatable to the rest of us. It's not like you can frisbee 4 at a time. Hell, I'm totally down with reducing the BW cost of explosives, though Im not sure that a cost of 1 for both types is the best number. Up for discussion. TL;DR FFS stop wasting everyone's time(including your own) with this aimless trololol and just ask for what you really want, which is basically just more splosions. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1951	Posted - 2015.01.09 07:59:00 - [116] - Quote To often he's days I have to stop running my scout or tank and put on my cal logi to carry my team with up links and hives . Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Clone D 1298	Posted - 2015.01.09 13:14:00 - [117] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Anyway, so here's the thing OP. You're doing it wrong. I already pretty much knew the answer. We've simply confirmed the truth. BW is not the problem here. Neither are all the "bad logis" running around (I'll get to that in a second. Edit: in another thread). You're just spamming all these needless flame bait threads and looking like an unreasonable troll. Not that thats new and unprecedented, but you either don't realize or aren't even asking for what it is you really want! You are either a very accomplished troll setting us up for your actual request or have made all this wasted effort asking for the wrong thing. My advice? Realize that all you really want is not only fairly simple but also far more palatable to the rest of us. It's not like you can frisbee 4 at a time. Hell, I'm totally down with reducing the BW cost of explosives, though Im not sure that a cost of 1 for both types is the best number. Up for discussion. TL;DR FFS stop wasting everyone's time(including your own) with this aimless trololol and just ask for what you really want, which is basically just more splosions. Ruh Roh, looks like somebody didn't read the key concept on page 4. My opinion is: There are not enough logis in the meta to support teams. Every other role needs to pitch in a helping hand. Because of this, we need to add a few extra bandwidth (maybe 4) to each dropsuit due to the expectation of role transference.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5090	Posted - 2015.01.09 13:20:00 - [118] - Quote Clone D wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Anyway, so here's the thing OP. You're doing it wrong. I already pretty much knew the answer. We've simply confirmed the truth. BW is not the problem here. Neither are all the "bad logis" running around (I'll get to that in a second. Edit: in another thread). You're just spamming all these needless flame bait threads and looking like an unreasonable troll. Not that thats new and unprecedented, but you either don't realize or aren't even asking for what it is you really want! You are either a very accomplished troll setting us up for your actual request or have made all this wasted effort asking for the wrong thing. My advice? Realize that all you really want is not only fairly simple but also far more palatable to the rest of us. It's not like you can frisbee 4 at a time. Hell, I'm totally down with reducing the BW cost of explosives, though Im not sure that a cost of 1 for both types is the best number. Up for discussion. TL;DR FFS stop wasting everyone's time(including your own) with this aimless trololol and just ask for what you really want, which is basically just more splosions. Ruh Roh, looks like somebody didn't read the key concept on page 4. My opinion is: There are not enough logis in the meta to support teams. Every other role needs to pitch in a helping hand. Because of this, we need to add a few extra bandwidth (maybe 4) to each dropsuit due to the expectation of role transference. So again, no. We need to fix the logi suits (Rattati has buffed literally every other suit), not take steps backward. Then why did you answer my question as you did? Now you wouldn't be happy with just changing the BW costs of explosives? All righty. Carry on with your badposting then I guess. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
Clone D 1298	Posted - 2015.01.09 13:24:00 - [119] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Clone D wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Anyway, so here's the thing OP. You're doing it wrong. I already pretty much knew the answer. We've simply confirmed the truth. BW is not the problem here. Neither are all the "bad logis" running around (I'll get to that in a second. Edit: in another thread). You're just spamming all these needless flame bait threads and looking like an unreasonable troll. Not that thats new and unprecedented, but you either don't realize or aren't even asking for what it is you really want! You are either a very accomplished troll setting us up for your actual request or have made all this wasted effort asking for the wrong thing. My advice? Realize that all you really want is not only fairly simple but also far more palatable to the rest of us. It's not like you can frisbee 4 at a time. Hell, I'm totally down with reducing the BW cost of explosives, though Im not sure that a cost of 1 for both types is the best number. Up for discussion. TL;DR FFS stop wasting everyone's time(including your own) with this aimless trololol and just ask for what you really want, which is basically just more splosions. Ruh Roh, looks like somebody didn't read the key concept on page 4. My opinion is: There are not enough logis in the meta to support teams. Every other role needs to pitch in a helping hand. Because of this, we need to add a few extra bandwidth (maybe 4) to each dropsuit due to the expectation of role transference. So again, no. Then why did you answer my question as you did? Now you wouldn't be happy with just changing the BW costs of explosives? All righty. Carry on with your badposting then I guess. I like the recommendation that you offered up about 1 bw for explosives. I think it makes sense, as PEs have become a thing of legend, and the RE bandwidth also feels too limiting.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5091	Posted - 2015.01.09 15:09:00 - [120] - Quote Clone D wrote: I like the recommendation that you offered up about 1 bw for explosives. I think it makes sense, as PEs have become a thing of legend, and the RE bandwidth also feels too limiting. OK, good. At least one thing we can work with. Backtracking to my previous question, so what you are saying that if RE BW was dropped, you would still be dissatisfied with the BW system? Why? When you give your answer, please assume for the sake of the discussion that BW is never ever going to be completely removed from the game and it is mandatory for further game development that we have a thriving Logi community. It doesn't (and shouldn't) have to be a huge % of the playerbase but sufficient enough that we are not unicorns. Operating under that set of conditions, what would make you happy with this system? Note: Aside from reducing the BW costs of explosives to free up BW for something else, giving scouts more BW is not on the table because as I've already stated, there's no way that will incentivize people to become logi's - it is in fact guaranteed to do the exact opposite because we've already tried letting scouts be do-everything suits with their second EQ slot and here we are. It's not a coincidence that scouts were given so little BW in the first place. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)

Clone D 1299	Posted - 2015.01.09 16:30:00 - [121] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: [...] so what you are saying that if RE BW was dropped, you would still be dissatisfied with the BW system? Why? When you give your answer, please assume for the sake of the discussion that BW is never ever going to be completely removed from the game and it is mandatory for further game development that we have a thriving Logi community. [...] Operating under that set of conditions, what would make you happy with this system? Note: Aside from reducing the BW costs of explosives to free up BW for something else, giving scouts more BW is not on the table because as I've already stated, there's no way that will incentivize people to become logi's - it is in fact guaranteed to do the exact opposite because we've already tried letting scouts be do-everything suits with their second EQ slot and here we are. It's not a coincidence that scouts were given so little BW in the first place. The general consensus seems to be that logis can't do it all, and so scouts, assaults and commandos (SAC) should lend a helping hand by carring uplinks, needles, etc. If the SAC wants to perform that duty, then it is all good and well. One of the distinguishing aspects of the game is the dynamic of choosing how you will build and play a dropsuit, customized to your style. But REs, PEs and nanohives are more aligned with the SAC roles. Here's the problem when bandwidth is too tight. It restricts expected role transference, the community expectation that SAC will occasionally perform support, while still needing the tools to perform their roles best. We have to face the music that, even if role transference were not a community expectation, sometimes there is not enough logi support on a team. This in turn mandates mercs to carry their own hives and uplinks, thereby forcing them to perform support duties themselves which is a clear indication that role transference is not only an expectation, but a requirement. Since role transference is a requirement, my opinion is that we must find a way to meet that need for every role, not just SAC. By now, you may know that my idea is to grant a small buffer of bandwidth in addition to the dropsuit role-balanced bandwidth, which allows for a small amount of team support in addition to performing the given role. (~4bw, about the bw of 1 uplink or 1 hive) Thinking Functional Jurisdictions As Opposed To Dropsuit Type There's this: why does the dropsuit that you are wearing matter so much? Isn't the function that you are performing much more important? If I can perform A/V ten times more effectively in a scout suit than I can in a commando suit, then why shouldn't I do it? If I can inflitrate an enemy compound with a scout, 2 uplinks and 3 REs, then why shouldn't I be allowed to do it? Why must I play in a logi dropsuit to perform the infiltration function now? If I can perform point defense ten times more effectively in a scout suit than a heavy suit, then why shouldn't I do it? Why are we trying to push people into cookie cutter molds? My favorite part of the game when I first started playing was the ability to match my dropsuit to the function I wanted to perform. That is slowly diminishing, and so is the appeal of the game. (nb4can I haz ISK, When I stop finding ways to have fun, I'll quit). Dropsuits are merely a physical embodiment of the utility I needed in a particular moment to get a job done. We need to loosen to bandwidth constraints to the degree that we still have variety in drop suit builds, otherwise, why offer the option of how you want to build a dropsuit at all? If everyone likes to play a scout, find out why. Don't just try to incentivize them to shift roles artificially. What is fun about playing a scout? Was it that the other dropsuits were too sluggish? Was strafing the best cqc tactic because it is more effective than using cover? Do we need to improve some other aspect of the game in order to make the other roles more appealing? It is a video game. People play games for fun factor. If you are trying to entice a certain % of the player base to be a logi, then you need to make logi a fun role. Most people in a FPS want to shoot stuff. If you make logis more like assaults, then essentially, you'll make a super assault plus - fun for fighting and can carry/deploy a bunch of equipment. Then people will leave assault behind and play super assault because it offers the same fun with more options. Then the assault fanboys will say, hey we need more incentives as assaults, etc. It is a downward spiral. Why can't we leave the suits alone, admit they are what they are and that the number of people who want to play them will vary with the context of the game/meta. A dropsuit is not a role. If we continue to treat dropsuits as roles, then we will remove the freedom of building dropsuits to match our creative expression as a player. Conclusion If you grant approx 4 bw in addition to what dropsuits have now, then that will not result in hive/uplink spam, but maybe we won't see so many redline matches. If granting a bufferr of bandwidth to acknowledge role transference and create variety is off of the table, then I think we have become a little too governing.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5092	Posted - 2015.01.09 17:38:00 - [122] - Quote So basically you are saying everything can and should be able to done better in a scout suit? Does that sound like an ideal or balanced solution in ANY WAY to you? I suppose it does otherwise you wouldn't have said it the way you did. That's all I needed to read. I don't want to play the game you describe. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
Clone D 1299	Posted - 2015.01.09 17:47:00 - [123] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: So basically you are saying everything can and should be able to done better in a scout suit? Does that sound like an ideal or balanced solution in ANY WAY to you? I suppose it does otherwise you wouldn't have said it the way you did. That's all I needed to read. I don't want to play the game you describe. You read it with bias. I am saying that all roles should be able to provide a minor team support contribution in addition to the demands of their own role.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5092	Posted - 2015.01.09 18:04:00 - [124] - Quote Clone D wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: So basically you are saying everything can and should be able to done better in a scout suit? Does that sound like an ideal or balanced solution in ANY WAY to you? I suppose it does otherwise you wouldn't have said it the way you did. That's all I needed to read. I don't want to play the game you describe. You read it with bias. I am saying that all roles should be able to provide a minor team support contribution in addition to the demands of their own role. That's not what your said at all. You said (paraphrasing slightly): if scouts can do x better, why not? If they can also do y better, why not? Why should we be forcing them out of that? Here: Clone D wrote: If I can perform A/V ten times more effectively in a scout suit than I can in a commando suit, then why shouldn't I do it? If I can inflitrate an enemy compound with a scout, 2 uplinks and 3 REs, then why shouldn't I be allowed to do it? Why must I play in a logi dropsuit to perform the infiltration function now? If I can perform point defense ten times more effectively in a scout suit than a heavy suit, then why shouldn't I do it? Why are we trying to push people into cookie cutter molds? Because that makes no fcking sense! Why do the other godd@mn suits even exist then? Does the concept of game balance have any meaning to you? In a game with 5 classes of suit, if one (the scout) is the way you describe then it's pathetically broken and major changes need to occur*. The question you should ask isn't why are we trying to push people out of that, its what idiot designed a game like that in the first place! Otherwise you may as well just take tiericide to the 100th power, get rid of every other suit, make one standard base blueprint, give a list of modules and let everyone make a slighty-less-generic version of the same suit for different needs. It will be a revolution in gaming! (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
Clone D 1299	Posted - 2015.01.09 18:34:00 - [125] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Clone D wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: So basically you are saying everything can and should be able to done better in a scout suit? Does that sound like an ideal or balanced solution in ANY WAY to you? I suppose it does otherwise you wouldn't have said it the way you did. That's all I needed to read. I don't want to play the game you describe. You read it with bias. I am saying that all roles should be able to provide a minor team support contribution in addition to the demands of their own role. That's not what your said at all. You said (paraphrasing slightly): if scouts can do x better, why not? If they can also do y better, why not? Why should we be forcing them out of that? Here: Clone D wrote: If I can perform A/V ten times more effectively in a scout suit than I can in a commando suit, then why shouldn't I do it? If I can inflitrate an enemy compound with a scout, 2 uplinks and 3 REs, then why shouldn't I be allowed to do it? Why must I play in a logi dropsuit to perform the infiltration function now? If I can perform point defense ten times more effectively in a scout suit than a heavy suit, then why shouldn't I do it? Why are we trying to push people into cookie cutter molds? Because that makes no fcking sense! Why do the other godd@mn suits even exist then? Does the concept of game balance have any meaning to you? In a game with 5 classes of suit, if one (the scout) is the way you describe then it's pathetically broken and major changes need to occur*. The question you should ask isn't why are we trying to push people out of it, its what idiot designed a game like that in the first place! Otherwise you may as well just take tiericide to the 100th power, get rid of every other suit, make one standard base blueprint, give a list of modules and let everyone make a slighty-less-generic version of the same suit for different needs. It will be a revolution in gaming! Have you taken algebra? Replace scout with X. Scout If I can perform A/V ten times more effectively in a scout suit than I can in a commando suit, then why shouldn't I do it? If I can inflitrate an enemy compound with a scout, 2 uplinks and 3 REs, then why shouldn't I be allowed to do it? Why must I play in a logi dropsuit to perform the infiltration function now? If I can perform point defense ten times more effectively in a scout suit than a heavy suit, then why shouldn't I do it? Why are we trying to push people into cookie cutter molds? Assault If I can perform A/V ten times more effectively in a assault suit than I can in a commando suit, then why shouldn't I do it? If I can inflitrate an enemy compound with a assault, 2 uplinks and 3 REs, then why shouldn't I be allowed to do it? Why must I play in a logi dropsuit to perform the infiltration function now? If I can perform point defense ten times more effectively in a assault suit than a heavy suit, then why shouldn't I do it? Why are we trying to push people into cookie cutter molds? Logi If I can perform A/V ten times more effectively in a logi suit than I can in a commando suit, then why shouldn't I do it? If I can inflitrate an enemy compound with a logi, 2 uplinks and 3 REs, then why shouldn't I be allowed to do it? If I can perform point defense ten times more effectively in a logi suit than a heavy suit, then why shouldn't I do it? Why are we trying to push people into cookie cutter molds? Commando If I can perform A/V ten times more effectively in a commando suit than I can in a blueprint A/V suit, then why shouldn't I do it? If I can inflitrate an enemy compound with a commando,and 3 REs, then why shouldn't I be allowed to do it? If I can perform point defense ten times more effectively in a commando suit than a heavy suit, then why shouldn't I do it? Why are we trying to push people into cookie cutter molds? Heavy If I can perform A/V ten times more effectively in a heavy suit than I can in a commando suit, then why shouldn't I do it? If I can inflitrate an enemy compound with a heavy, then why shouldn't I be allowed to do it? If I can perform point defense ten times more effectively in a heavy suit than an assault suit, then why shouldn't I do it? Why are we trying to push people into cookie cutter molds? Your thinking is limited to the extent that you can only imagine performing specific duties in specific suits.
RayRay James Titans of Phoenix 891	Posted - 2015.01.09 19:01:00 - [126] - Quote Combat oriented people pushed to have the needle nerf installed. Sure WP Farming happened, but get over it. People stopped playing logi because of it. Bandwidth was introduced because CCP wanted it, not Logi's Loss of logis from previous nerfs means less logis on the field. I still run a link, needle, rep milita suit as my main and a pro logi when I want to have fun. I have droplink suits, nanohive suits, and every kind of equipment suit a logi should have for any ocassion. I can bring out the droplink suit, get dead, and spawn in with a different fit because bandwidth transfers over. Ultimately, the problem isn't any of the changes. It's that the changes made people leave the role. Less logis = less equipment. Also, assaults and scouts have equipment slots. suck it up and use them. Us logis wont mind an extra droplink or hive.
RayRay James Titans of Phoenix 891	Posted - 2015.01.09 19:04:00 - [127] - Quote Clone D wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. Who is supposed to lay proxies now? Can you describe a strategy that makes sense? My logi with proto proxies, RE and nanohive work great in certain scenarios. Get me on the bridge map with that suit and unless the tank is paying fantastic attention there's no more tank.
Clone D 1299	Posted - 2015.01.09 19:08:00 - [128] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Clone D wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. Who is supposed to lay proxies now? Can you describe a strategy that makes sense? My logi with proto proxies, RE and nanohive work great in certain scenarios. Get me on the bridge map with that suit and unless the tank is paying fantastic attention there's no more tank. Hey RayRay! Thanks for your feedback on this. I'm trying to learn how people are using proxies nowadays. How many proxies do you deploy? What do you do afterward?
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 723	Posted - 2015.01.09 19:19:00 - [129] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Combat oriented people pushed to have the needle nerf installed. Sure WP Farming happened, but get over it. People stopped playing logi because of it. Bandwidth was introduced because CCP wanted it, not Logi's Loss of logis from previous nerfs means less logis on the field. I still run a link, needle, rep milita suit as my main and a pro logi when I want to have fun. I have droplink suits, nanohive suits, and every kind of equipment suit a logi should have for any ocassion. I can bring out the droplink suit, get dead, and spawn in with a different fit because bandwidth transfers over. Ultimately, the problem isn't any of the changes. It's that the changes made people leave the role. Less logis = less equipment. Also, assaults and scouts have equipment slots. suck it up and use them. Us logis wont mind an extra droplink or hive. This I don't think is too far off. D, you have the ability to "perform" any role from any suit now, as BW is. Are you as effective at it than suits designed to optimize that role? No, and you shouldn't be. Thats why suit base specialization exists. As far as raising the BW limits for SAC, why? They have enough to self-support at a basic level OR weaponize further, as you've proven repeatedly. It just isn't enough BW to do both, simultaneously. Just like how none of my Logi suits can generate passive scans low enough and far enough to detect dampened scouts. If I want to do that, I need a scout frame and to sacrifice most of my Logi gear. And remember, I am the guy who argued vehemently against BW being added the minute the topic was bluestickied. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 723	Posted - 2015.01.09 19:22:00 - [130] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Clone D wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. Who is supposed to lay proxies now? Can you describe a strategy that makes sense? My logi with proto proxies, RE and nanohive work great in certain scenarios. Get me on the bridge map with that suit and unless the tank is paying fantastic attention there's no more tank. Amen to that ^^^^^^ #AVLogiMafiaSinceMurderTaxi514.1.3 Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

Operative 1174 Uuali Y.A.M.A.H 269	Posted - 2015.01.09 19:25:00 - [131] - Quote Flint Beastgood III wrote: Clone D wrote: Logis pushed for sole propriety over equipment. They got it, and now what? There are many more matches without any uplinks on the field whatsoever. Proximity explosives are a thing of the past because logis have better things to do? Logis are doing the one thing that they know how to do. Latch onto a heavy and hold R1 for the remainder of the match. Do your jobs logis. If you see a battlefield with all red letters and no friendly uplinks, then you didn't do your job. Learn how to prevent that. Don't make me stop assaulting and capturing objectives, because you don't know how to do your job, so that I can do it for you. Bandwidth. I still do my uplink thing, but they only go so far now. I'm not running proto every match just so I can place down 8 instead of 6, that's just reetarded. I know what you're saying though. At first I stopped uplinking when bandwidth was introduced, but more and more I am forced to drive around placing links or sit in the redline with the rest of the team until the match ends, lol. Logi is now my pilot suit since bandwidth was added. I drop some on buildings or run a mCRU in my DS. I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
Omega Black Zero Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 166	Posted - 2015.01.09 19:29:00 - [132] - Quote Commando has best the AV specialization potential, double swarm launchers... swarm launcher and plasma cannon... I do agree, however, that each role (with the exception of Sentinels) should be providing a minor degree of support alongside the logi. The logi is intended to be the beast of burden, taking the main load of support, but easing that load puts your team in a better position to succeed if everyone can provide minor support. One logi is just one man, and you aren't always going to have more than one, at least in pubs and FW
Clone D 1299	Posted - 2015.01.09 19:33:00 - [133] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: D, you have the ability to "perform" any role from any suit now, as BW is. Are you as effective at it than suits designed to optimize that role? No, and you shouldn't be. Thats why suit base specialization exists. As far as raising the BW limits for SAC, why? They have enough to self-support at a basic level OR weaponize further, as you've proven repeatedly. It just isn't enough BW to do both, simultaneously. Just like how none of my Logi suits can generate passive scans low enough and far enough to detect dampened scouts. If I want to do that, I need a scout frame and to sacrifice most of my Logi gear. My position is this: bandwidth is fine, but it was implemented in an extreme way, resulting in a conundrum of mutual exclusivity: AssaultContemplator wrote: Do I help my team with that uplink right now, or do I perform my job better with an RE? Someone who has used their SP to spec into assault should ideally be able to focus on assaulting, not sacrifice their hard earned suit bandwidth because there aren't enough logis in the player base. This is where I say, a role should be able to perform the duties related to that role at a peak level. Due to the lack of logis, we should all be able to lend a hand and contribute above and beyond by only a minimal amount. But then we should be able to return to our role and perform it fully without the loss of job effectiveness.
Clone D 1299	Posted - 2015.01.09 19:39:00 - [134] - Quote Operative 1174 Uuali wrote: There are still too many uplinks being placed on the map by ppl who know to do that. No uplinks doesn't mean bandwidth is bad, it means too many people are not informed about how to play the game. There could be a different inference: other roles already have the equipment fitted that is important to getting their job done, and nobody wants to sacrifice their own effectiveness to help out the team. If they could drop an uplink and return to their job as usual, then that might change the situation. I'm not saying bandwidth is bad. I'm saying it is slightly too tight.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 723	Posted - 2015.01.09 19:49:00 - [135] - Quote Clone D wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: D, you have the ability to "perform" any role from any suit now, as BW is. Are you as effective at it than suits designed to optimize that role? No, and you shouldn't be. Thats why suit base specialization exists. As far as raising the BW limits for SAC, why? They have enough to self-support at a basic level OR weaponize further, as you've proven repeatedly. It just isn't enough BW to do both, simultaneously. Just like how none of my Logi suits can generate passive scans low enough and far enough to detect dampened scouts. If I want to do that, I need a scout frame and to sacrifice most of my Logi gear. My position is this: bandwidth is fine, but it was implemented in an extreme way, resulting in a conundrum of mutual exclusivity: AssaultContemplator wrote: Do I help my team with that uplink right now, or do I perform my job better with an RE? Someone who has used their SP to spec into assault should ideally be able to focus on assaulting, not sacrifice their hard earned suit bandwidth because there aren't enough logis in the player base. This is where I say, a role should be able to perform the duties related to that role at a peak level. Due to the lack of logis, we should all be able to lend a hand and contribute above and beyond by only a minimal amount. But then we should be able to return to our role and perform it fully without the loss of job effectiveness. In terms of bandwidth, this would mean relaxing it by about 4 bw per dropsuit. But this, again, already proves the point contrary to your arguement. That assault, if absolutley need be, CAN drop that precious link should his discretion determine its neccessity. Does that commit his equipment capability? Yes. Does that subsequently render him battlefield useless? No. He still has his LW, his SA and his G. In addition to whatever his base+mods stats create. He can continue assaulting, minus the committed equipment. Try it like this: Assault Dilemma wrote: Hm..... Should I run my AR, and gain range but reduced alpha damage in CQ OR Should I run my SG and be **** at range but a scythe in CQ?? Decisons, decisions... Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 723	Posted - 2015.01.09 19:52:00 - [136] - Quote Omega Black Zero wrote: Commando has best the AV specialization potential, double swarm launchers... swarm launcher and plasma cannon...if you're just going to camp one area like a ****** and hope that a dropship flies near. I do agree, however, that each role (with the exception of Sentinels) should be providing a minor degree of support alongside the logi. The logi is intended to be the beast of burden, taking the main load of support, but easing that load puts your team in a better position to succeed if everyone can provide minor support. One logi is just one man, and you aren't always going to have more than one, at least in pubs and FW FTFY XD Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Clone D 1299	Posted - 2015.01.09 19:53:00 - [137] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Clone D wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: D, you have the ability to "perform" any role from any suit now, as BW is. Are you as effective at it than suits designed to optimize that role? No, and you shouldn't be. Thats why suit base specialization exists. As far as raising the BW limits for SAC, why? They have enough to self-support at a basic level OR weaponize further, as you've proven repeatedly. It just isn't enough BW to do both, simultaneously. Just like how none of my Logi suits can generate passive scans low enough and far enough to detect dampened scouts. If I want to do that, I need a scout frame and to sacrifice most of my Logi gear. My position is this: bandwidth is fine, but it was implemented in an extreme way, resulting in a conundrum of mutual exclusivity: AssaultContemplator wrote: Do I help my team with that uplink right now, or do I perform my job better with an RE? Someone who has used their SP to spec into assault should ideally be able to focus on assaulting, not sacrifice their hard earned suit bandwidth because there aren't enough logis in the player base. This is where I say, a role should be able to perform the duties related to that role at a peak level. Due to the lack of logis, we should all be able to lend a hand and contribute above and beyond by only a minimal amount. But then we should be able to return to our role and perform it fully without the loss of job effectiveness. In terms of bandwidth, this would mean relaxing it by about 4 bw per dropsuit. But this, again, already proves the point contrary to your arguement. That assault, if absolutley need be, CAN drop that precious link should his discretion determine its neccessity. Does that commit his equipment capability? Yes. Does that subsequently render him battlefield useless? No. He still has his LW, his SA and his G. In addition to whatever his base+mods stats create. He can continue assaulting, minus the committed equipment. Try it like this: Assault Dilemma wrote: Hm..... Should I run my AR, and gain range but reduced alpha damage in CQ OR Should I run my SG and be **** at range but a scythe in CQ?? Decisons, decisions... But his effectiveness suffers because he had to give up an important tool in order to help someone else with their job. Do we need to consider an analogy to the welfare system? Some people aren't doing their jobs for whatever reason. Everyone else contributes out of their own hard earned cash. If we don't loosen bandwidth just the tiniest little bit, then we just created a welfare system in Dust. All the other roles have to sacrifice the equipment that they need, in order to help out the logis.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 723	Posted - 2015.01.09 20:03:00 - [138] - Quote Except that should any individual find themselves without ammo or a spawnpoint they have the option of hacking a CRU or Supply Depot. Just like if there isn't enough AV on the field, any individual has the option of acking and using a turret. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
RayRay James Titans of Phoenix 892	Posted - 2015.01.09 20:05:00 - [139] - Quote Clone D wrote: RayRay James wrote: Clone D wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. Who is supposed to lay proxies now? Can you describe a strategy that makes sense? My logi with proto proxies, RE and nanohive work great in certain scenarios. Get me on the bridge map with that suit and unless the tank is paying fantastic attention there's no more tank. Hey RayRay! Thanks for your feedback on this. I'm trying to learn how people are using proxies nowadays. How many proxies do you deploy? What do you do afterward? Can't speak for everyone, but lets take my bridge map for example. My demolitions logi has a proto PE, Advanced, PE, Proto rep nanohive and proto RE. I'll drop out as many PE in a cluster as allowed with each type (I think it totals 7). Since tankers rarely turn around and come back across the map (They usually make a big circle around the map), I'll watch once or twice and see which way they prefer to go and then drop my RE's just past the PEs. If the tanker survives the PEs, the REs are there to finish the job. After that, it's resupply with my nanohive if there's no supply depot. If there is a supply depot I usually switch out of the suit for one of my many other logi fits. If I have to stay in my demolitions suit, I play "hide and go seek then destroy" because it's also dampener/speed fit
RayRay James Titans of Phoenix 892	Posted - 2015.01.09 20:06:00 - [140] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: RayRay James wrote: Combat oriented people pushed to have the needle nerf installed. Sure WP Farming happened, but get over it. People stopped playing logi because of it. Bandwidth was introduced because CCP wanted it, not Logi's Loss of logis from previous nerfs means less logis on the field. I still run a link, needle, rep milita suit as my main and a pro logi when I want to have fun. I have droplink suits, nanohive suits, and every kind of equipment suit a logi should have for any ocassion. I can bring out the droplink suit, get dead, and spawn in with a different fit because bandwidth transfers over. Ultimately, the problem isn't any of the changes. It's that the changes made people leave the role. Less logis = less equipment. Also, assaults and scouts have equipment slots. suck it up and use them. Us logis wont mind an extra droplink or hive. This I don't think is too far off. D, you have the ability to "perform" any role from any suit now, as BW is. Are you as effective at it than suits designed to optimize that role? No, and you shouldn't be. Thats why suit base specialization exists. As far as raising the BW limits for SAC, why? They have enough to self-support at a basic level OR weaponize further, as you've proven repeatedly. It just isn't enough BW to do both, simultaneously. Just like how none of my Logi suits can generate passive scans low enough and far enough to detect dampened scouts. If I want to do that, I need a scout frame and to sacrifice most of my Logi gear. And remember, I am the guy who argued vehemently against BW being added the minute the topic was bluestickied. Actually, I have a logi suit that gets down to 27dB. Doesn't get everything, but most people don't go for true damp scouts. If they do, they win. If they don't, I win.

RayRay James Titans of Phoenix 894	Posted - 2015.01.09 20:11:00 - [141] - Quote Clone D wrote: But his effectiveness suffers because he had to give up an important tool in order to help someone else with their job. Do we need to consider an analogy to the welfare system? Some people aren't doing their jobs for whatever reason. Everyone else contributes out of their own hard earned cash. If we don't loosen bandwidth just the tiniest little bit, then we just created a welfare system in Dust. All the other roles have to sacrifice the equipment that they need, in order to help out the logis. Dust is a game of sacrifices. You make the decision to help the logi or help yourself. You get to make this decision every time you die or pass a supply depot. If you're in an assault, throw a link, and die. Come back in the assault with the REs. The link will stay active until you toss out your REs. At that point, you're making the active decision that your REs are more important at that moment that your link was. Bandwidth makes you make decisions. Sometimes those decisions suck.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5095	Posted - 2015.01.09 20:12:00 - [142] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: And remember, I am the guy who argued vehemently against BW being added the minute the topic was bluestickied. Ahh.. That made my day, Thank you! Anyway... Back to the grind here.. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
Clone D 1299	Posted - 2015.01.09 20:20:00 - [143] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Clone D wrote: RayRay James wrote: Clone D wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. Who is supposed to lay proxies now? Can you describe a strategy that makes sense? My logi with proto proxies, RE and nanohive work great in certain scenarios. Get me on the bridge map with that suit and unless the tank is paying fantastic attention there's no more tank. Hey RayRay! Thanks for your feedback on this. I'm trying to learn how people are using proxies nowadays. How many proxies do you deploy? What do you do afterward? Can't speak for everyone, but lets take my bridge map for example. My demolitions logi has a proto PE, Advanced, PE, Proto rep nanohive and proto RE. I'll drop out as many PE in a cluster as allowed with each type (I think it totals 7). Since tankers rarely turn around and come back across the map (They usually make a big circle around the map), I'll watch once or twice and see which way they prefer to go and then drop my RE's just past the PEs. If the tanker survives the PEs, the REs are there to finish the job. After that, it's resupply with my nanohive if there's no supply depot. If there is a supply depot I usually switch out of the suit for one of my many other logi fits. If I have to stay in my demolitions suit, I play "hide and go seek then destroy" because it's also dampener/speed fit So it sounds like you are tracking the tanks you destroy, and setting your explosives in the sweet spot on a per tank basis. Then when the threat is removed you go do something else. What happens when you set your mines in the sweet spot and then the tank never rolls back through? Do you give up, or go chasing the tank around the map? Do you ever use the strategy where you deploy a minefield in a known trafficked area and then go do something else, or do you always stay with your minefield?
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5095	Posted - 2015.01.09 20:23:00 - [144] - Quote Clone D wrote: Have you taken algebra? Still laughing... If only you knew... clone D wrote: {same statement repeats about each class} Oh. my. GOD! I can't even... It's just... Wow. Seriously? That's your counter-argument? It does not matter which suit you are talking about! No matter which suit it is, if it is working as you describe, ITS BROKEN. Every suit should be viable and unquestionably, with no room for debate, superior in every major aspect of its designated role. End of story. Honestly, I've lost all hope here. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
Oswald Banecroft II Muteki Armati Virium 15	Posted - 2015.01.09 20:27:00 - [145] - Quote I have a totally opposite experience. I join a match and spawn as an Amarr Logi but find that everyone on my team, including Ripley Riley's cat, are spamming uplinks left and right. I am hardly able to do my job because of it. Rarely do I get into a match with a team that isn't doing that. At least, ever since bandwidth. Oddly, before bandwidth, it was the reverse for me. Fortune does not seem to pity Dust players.
Clone D 1299	Posted - 2015.01.09 20:28:00 - [146] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Clone D wrote: Have you taken algebra? Still laughing... If only you knew... clone D wrote: {same statement repeats about each class} Oh. my. GOD! I can't even... It's just... Wow. Seriously? That's your counter-argument? It does not matter which suit you are talking about! No matter which suit it is, if it is working as you describe, ITS BROKEN. Every suit should be viable and unquestionably, with no room for debate, superior in every major aspect of its designated role. End of story. Honestly, I've lost all hope here. This is where theory and art divide. Some players can take a suit and use it artfully for something that it was not intended for. Does that make it wrong? Why have you given up hope? It's like you're more interested in being a hard a$$ than admitting that human creativity can be an amazing and inspiring thing.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 724	Posted - 2015.01.09 20:36:00 - [147] - Quote RayRay James wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: RayRay James wrote: Combat oriented people pushed to have the needle nerf installed. Sure WP Farming happened, but get over it. People stopped playing logi because of it. Bandwidth was introduced because CCP wanted it, not Logi's Loss of logis from previous nerfs means less logis on the field. I still run a link, needle, rep milita suit as my main and a pro logi when I want to have fun. I have droplink suits, nanohive suits, and every kind of equipment suit a logi should have for any ocassion. I can bring out the droplink suit, get dead, and spawn in with a different fit because bandwidth transfers over. Ultimately, the problem isn't any of the changes. It's that the changes made people leave the role. Less logis = less equipment. Also, assaults and scouts have equipment slots. suck it up and use them. Us logis wont mind an extra droplink or hive. This I don't think is too far off. D, you have the ability to "perform" any role from any suit now, as BW is. Are you as effective at it than suits designed to optimize that role? No, and you shouldn't be. Thats why suit base specialization exists. As far as raising the BW limits for SAC, why? They have enough to self-support at a basic level OR weaponize further, as you've proven repeatedly. It just isn't enough BW to do both, simultaneously. Just like how none of my Logi suits can generate passive scans low enough and far enough to detect dampened scouts. If I want to do that, I need a scout frame and to sacrifice most of my Logi gear. And remember, I am the guy who argued vehemently against BW being added the minute the topic was bluestickied. Actually, I have a logi suit that gets down to 27dB. Doesn't get everything, but most people don't go for true damp scouts. If they do, they win. If they don't, I win. Exactly my point. Sacrifice made, gain =/= to performance of optimized suit for role. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
RayRay James Titans of Phoenix 895	Posted - 2015.01.09 20:40:00 - [148] - Quote Clone D wrote: So it sounds like you are tracking the tanks you destroy, and setting your explosives in the sweet spot on a per tank basis. Then when the threat is removed you go do something else. What happens when you set your mines in the sweet spot and then the tank never rolls back through? Do you give up, or go chasing the tank around the map? Do you ever use the strategy where you deploy a minefield in a known trafficked area and then go do something else, or do you always stay with your minefield? I've abandoned plenty a mine field. Tank gets destroyed before I get to kill it, for example. In that scenario, if there's a supply depot near by, I'll switch to a different logi suit. If i swap down to militia, some of theos PE/REs get destroyed, if I stay proto, they stick around. I've had instances where I'll have abandoned a mine field, gone and supported a different point only to see +50, +50, +50 5 minutes after the fact because I stayed in a proto suit but didn't deploy any more equipment yet. If there's no supply depot i switch to "hide and go seek and destroy" mode until I die, then the same scenario plays out as above.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 724	Posted - 2015.01.09 20:42:00 - [149] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: And remember, I am the guy who argued vehemently against BW being added the minute the topic was bluestickied. Ahh.. That made my day, Thank you! Anyway; Back to this guy... LOL, then or now? Either way, I'm glad to hear you're stoked a little and want to ensure you aren't getting my position twisted: I ***** hate *** bandwidth. But I don't agree with D in tweaking the values, aside from buffing the out of Logi BW. Title this thread, "** Bandwidth, it HAS to GO" and all I would post would be, "Signed, +1". Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
REDBACK96USMC Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 125	Posted - 2015.01.09 20:51:00 - [150] - Quote Clone D wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Solution: get in a squad. Maybe you can assist me with resolving this technical problem: Whenever I am in a squad, I experience huge amounts of lag. It's about double the amount of lag that I usually experience. Whenever I am on comms in a squad, I experience even more lag to the point that I cannot tell what is happening in the game and I just listen in to my squad to see what is happening during that battle. What can I do to fix that? I have a 25 Mbps connection with <1 ms jitter and my ps3 is fully operational and running a SSD. I use the America server (which experience shows gives me the least amount of lag). I adjusted my ps3 settings for optimal networking capabilities. I have an ethernet cable directly connected to my ps3. Oh, if there is no resolution to this problem, then is it okay with you if some people don't play in squads? Post a traceroute to the servers.

RayRay James Titans of Phoenix 895	Posted - 2015.01.09 20:58:00 - [151] - Quote REDBACK96USMC wrote: Clone D wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Solution: get in a squad. Maybe you can assist me with resolving this technical problem: Whenever I am in a squad, I experience huge amounts of lag. It's about double the amount of lag that I usually experience. Whenever I am on comms in a squad, I experience even more lag to the point that I cannot tell what is happening in the game and I just listen in to my squad to see what is happening during that battle. What can I do to fix that? I have a 25 Mbps connection with <1 ms jitter and my ps3 is fully operational and running a SSD. I use the America server (which experience shows gives me the least amount of lag). I adjusted my ps3 settings for optimal networking capabilities. I have an ethernet cable directly connected to my ps3. Oh, if there is no resolution to this problem, then is it okay with you if some people don't play in squads? Post a traceroute to the servers. First questions should be "Are you on wireless?"
REDBACK96USMC Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 125	Posted - 2015.01.09 21:12:00 - [152] - Quote RayRay James wrote: REDBACK96USMC wrote: Clone D wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Solution: get in a squad. Maybe you can assist me with resolving this technical problem: Whenever I am in a squad, I experience huge amounts of lag. It's about double the amount of lag that I usually experience. Whenever I am on comms in a squad, I experience even more lag to the point that I cannot tell what is happening in the game and I just listen in to my squad to see what is happening during that battle. What can I do to fix that? I have a 25 Mbps connection with <1 ms jitter and my ps3 is fully operational and running a SSD. I use the America server (which experience shows gives me the least amount of lag). I adjusted my ps3 settings for optimal networking capabilities. I have an ethernet cable directly connected to my ps3. Oh, if there is no resolution to this problem, then is it okay with you if some people don't play in squads? Post a traceroute to the servers. First questions should be "Are you on wireless?" He already stated he was on wired. ;)
Clone D 1301	Posted - 2015.01.09 22:10:00 - [153] - Quote REDBACK96USMC wrote: Post a traceroute to the servers. Found Tranquility IP at http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility tracert 87.237.38.200 Tracing route to srv200-g.ccp.cc [87.237.38.200] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 2 ms 2 ms 1 ms homeportal [*...] 2 * * Request timed out. 3 22 ms 22 ms 21 ms 71.144.225.88 4 23 ms 26 ms 21 ms 12.83.40.157 5 28 ms 30 ms 29 ms gar13.cgcil.ip.att.net [12.122.132.121] 6 30 ms 31 ms 30 ms chi-b21-link.telia.net [213.248.87.253] 7 55 ms 55 ms 55 ms nyk-bb1-link.telia.net [213.155.136.72] 8 118 ms 119 ms 117 ms ldn-bb1-link.telia.net [213.155.135.68] 9 116 ms 118 ms 117 ms ldn-b3-link.telia.net [80.91.250.241] 10 eveonline-ic-138015-ldn-b3.c.telia.net [213.248.83.198] reports: Destinati on net unreachable. Trace complete.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5098	Posted - 2015.01.10 03:58:00 - [154] - Quote Clone D wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Clone D wrote: Have you taken algebra? Still laughing... If only you knew... clone D wrote: {same statement repeats about each class} Oh. my. GOD! I can't even... It's just... Wow. Seriously? That's your counter-argument? It does not matter which suit you are talking about! No matter which suit it is, if it is working as you describe, ITS BROKEN. Every suit should be viable and unquestionably, with no room for debate, superior in every major aspect of its designated role. End of story. Honestly, I've lost all hope here. This is where theory and art divide. Some players can take a suit and use it artfully for something that it was not intended for. Does that make it wrong? Why have you given up hope? It's like you're more interested in being a hard a$$ than admitting that human creativity can be an amazing and inspiring thing. It only makes it wrong if the following are true: - you don't have to make enough sacrifices to do it - you can make it better than the suit designed for the role can be (assuming it, too, is being set up for the same purpose, obviously) I hate to burst your little "I am freaking AWESOME" bubble, but the reason you can make scout suits to do all this sh!t medium suits are designed for so well has nothing to do with your singular talent to squeeze evey last ounce of performance out of it and everything to do with a broken system. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
Clone D 1302	Posted - 2015.01.10 11:01:00 - [155] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Clone D wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Clone D wrote: Have you taken algebra? Still laughing... If only you knew... clone D wrote: {same statement repeats about each class} Oh. my. GOD! I can't even... It's just... Wow. Seriously? That's your counter-argument? It does not matter which suit you are talking about! No matter which suit it is, if it is working as you describe, ITS BROKEN. Every suit should be viable and unquestionably, with no room for debate, superior in every major aspect of its designated role. End of story. Honestly, I've lost all hope here. This is where theory and art divide. Some players can take a suit and use it artfully for something that it was not intended for. Does that make it wrong? Why have you given up hope? It's like you're more interested in being a hard a$$ than admitting that human creativity can be an amazing and inspiring thing. It only makes it wrong if the following are true: - you don't have to make enough sacrifices to do it - you can make it better than the suit designed for the role can be (assuming it, too, is being set up for the same purpose, obviously) I hate to burst your little "I am freaking AWESOME" bubble, but the reason you can make scout suits to do all this sh!t medium suits are designed for so well has nothing to do with your singular talent to squeeze evey last ounce of performance out of it and everything to do with a broken system. So, you're telling me that the system is broken when a heavy can kincat tank his dropsuit to the point that he can chase down an assault or scout and mow him down? No, that is ingenuity. A heavy isn't designed for that, but we have the option of customizing it to a certain degree. A suit like that, played well, can terrorize people, and this play style falls outside of the intended purpose of the suit (point defense). Customization gives us degrees of freedom to perform whatever function we can build a suit to do, even if it falls outside of the original intent for the dropsuit.
Sir Petersen D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1094	Posted - 2015.01.10 11:21:00 - [156] - Quote Clone D wrote: Logis pushed for sole propriety over equipment. They got it, and now what? There are many more matches without any uplinks on the field whatsoever.. This was a job for the Scout up until some genius decided to take it away from them. And the Scouts were doing a good job. One of the worst changes I-¦ve seen so far in this game.
CoochMaster Flex Contract Hunters 33	Posted - 2015.01.10 11:31:00 - [157] - Quote I got you CloNe. I just went proto minmatar logi. And I'm back on Dust. o7 CONHU still lives on.
Clone D 1303	Posted - 2015.01.10 11:37:00 - [158] - Quote CoochMaster Flex wrote: I got you CloNe. I just went proto minmatar logi. And I'm back on Dust. o7 COOCH! Awesome, bro! I'm glad you're back, my friend!
CoochMaster Flex Contract Hunters 34	Posted - 2015.01.10 11:39:00 - [159] - Quote Clone D wrote: CoochMaster Flex wrote: I got you CloNe. I just went proto minmatar logi. And I'm back on Dust. o7 COOCH! Awesome, bro! I'm glad you're back, my friend! It's so different from the last time I played. I'm still stuck on 1.8. But I'll adapt. o7 CONHU still lives on.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5102	Posted - 2015.01.10 16:40:00 - [160] - Quote Clone D wrote: So, you're telling me that the system is broken when a heavy can kincat tank his dropsuit to the point that he can chase down an assault or scout and mow him down? No, that is ingenuity. A heavy isn't designed for that, but we have the option of customizing it to a certain degree. A suit like that, played well, can terrorize people, and this play style falls outside of the intended purpose of the suit (point defense). Customization gives us degrees of freedom to perform whatever function we can build a suit to do, even if it falls outside of the original intent for the dropsuit. Hmm... lessee... a sentinel chasing down a scout... That "scout" has no idea what he's doing then. Maybe he should try not putting regular complex plates on a frickin' light frame. Speed tanked Min sentinels will not chase down a scout who has any idea how to fit a suit. An Amarr assault, sure, but that assault will quite possibly have more eHP than the sentinel and their ScR is gonna be murder on the shield HP they are dependent on. That same Min Sentinel would get torn apart by a CQC sentinel, too. Can go outside normal parameters but makes a lot of sacrifices. Working as intended. Let me explain it this way: Fitting freedom/customization should allow you to blur the lines between suit classes, not erase them. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)

Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 184	Posted - 2015.01.10 16:43:00 - [161] - Quote Clone D wrote: ... If I run assault, I want some REs or a nanohive. I don't want to have to carry around an uplink, ... What do you think it sounds like to people who read what you post, when you complain about other people not doing a job you don't want to do? What do you think it sounds like to people who read what you post, when you fail to distinguish between logis not doing their job, and logis not doing their job FOR YOU, the guy who doesn't want to squad with logis? What do you think it sounds like to people who read what you post, when you complain about an insufficient number of uplinks being dropped by logis, and your proposed solution is to devalue running a logi? The charitable reading of your posting in this thread is that you're trolling a bit. The better solution to the "problem" you're complaining about is removing REs from the game. That way everyone will have one less piece of equipment to compete with fitting uplinks. We don't need REs to fill the gap between grenades and proximity explosives anyway. Right? That is a much better solution to this outlying problem you're complaining about, than your proposed solution, which boils down to "buff what I want, because I want it." There's nothing wrong with wanting what we want. I want to play an FPS with complex fitting options, diverse roles, and big enough teams to make for some interesting team tactics, including a logistics role that isn't devalued to the point that almost no one puts up with running logistics. I don't generally try to get what I want, by insulting people. It can be fun, but its just not as persuasive as you may imagine. How did you expect the people reading your posts to react to the way you chose to present what you want? Credibility is a kind of authority. There is no better way to enhance your authority that to use it well; no better way to undermine your own authority than to use it badly. Think before you post. Delete most of what you compose, so only your better compositions get posted. We can learn a lot from playing games, and posting about them, i.e. how to think well, and how to be persuasive. The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
Clone D 1303	Posted - 2015.01.10 18:16:00 - [162] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Clone D wrote: So, you're telling me that the system is broken when a heavy can kincat tank his dropsuit to the point that he can chase down an assault or scout and mow him down? No, that is ingenuity. A heavy isn't designed for that, but we have the option of customizing it to a certain degree. A suit like that, played well, can terrorize people, and this play style falls outside of the intended purpose of the suit (point defense). Customization gives us degrees of freedom to perform whatever function we can build a suit to do, even if it falls outside of the original intent for the dropsuit. Hmm... lessee... a sentinel chasing down a scout... That "scout" has no idea what he's doing then. Maybe he should try not putting regular complex plates on a frickin' light frame. Speed tanked Min sentinels will not chase down a scout who has any idea how to fit a suit. An Amarr assault, sure, but that assault will quite possibly have more eHP than the sentinel and their ScR is gonna be murder on the shield HP they are dependent on. That same Min Sentinel would get torn apart by a CQC sentinel, too. Can go outside normal parameters but makes a lot of sacrifices. Working as intended. Let me explain it this way: Fitting freedom/customization should allow you to blur the lines between suit classes, not erase them. Have you ever seen a movie where a person uses a coffee mug or a newspaper to kill someone? That is the kind of thinking outside of the box that allows a person to use one dropsuit to masterfully complete a task for which it was not designed. You simply lack imagination. That's all. Do some thought experiments to expand your mind or something.
Clone D 1303	Posted - 2015.01.10 18:31:00 - [163] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: Credibility is a kind of authority. There is no better way to enhance your authority that to use it well; no better way to undermine your own authority than to use it badly. There are many kinds of people in the world. It is up to each person to decide his/her opinion of everyone else. Yes, persuasion and mind control exist, but I am not here to get people to like me. I am here to learn about what is going on in this community and learn how other people think. If I were to write a polite, well-stated argument initially, then chances are that it would slide right down the thread queue and out of sight with minimal viewers. Concerning a rude, obnoxious, abrasive or attention-grabbing title and opener, those approaches get people talking and saying what is really on their mind. It can get to the heart of the matter a lot faster. And ultimately, it changes people's streams of consciousness to think about a topic with more emotional weight. What does it hurt if nobody likes me? Nothing. If my goal was to learn why decisions were made or how community members think, then I accomplished my goal. I am not here in search of any kind of authority or credibility; only to observe. I can only observe what people do and say, so if I want to know what they are thinking, then I must concoct a way to extract that information.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5103	Posted - 2015.01.10 18:33:00 - [164] - Quote Clone D wrote: Have you ever seen a movie where a person uses a coffee mug or a newspaper to kill someone? That is the kind of thinking outside of the box that allows a person to use one dropsuit to masterfully complete a task for which it was not designed. You simply lack imagination. That's all. Do some thought experiments to expand your mind or something. It's sad how you can't understand this simple concept. John Demonsbane wrote: Fitting freedom/customization should allow you to blur the lines between suit classes, not erase them. The entire concept of game balance and player classes is based on ONE simple principle: Every class has a particular function/role/specialization for which they are designed to be "best" at. No other class, when both are being used as intended by the designer should be nearly as effective at it. When this is no longer the case, one class is rendered obsolete. This is improper game design and results in a lack of diversity in the long run as everyone will use the same imbalanced class. If paper always beats scissors, too, nobody will ever use a rock. If you are unable to grasp that as not just an aim, but as a necessity, then there Is no point in continuing. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
Clone D 1303	Posted - 2015.01.10 18:43:00 - [165] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: The entire concept of game balance and player classes is based on ONE simple principle: Every class has a particular function/role/specialization for which they are designed to be "best" at. No other class, when both are being used as intended by the designer should be nearly as effective at it. When this is no longer the case, one class is rendered obsolete. This is improper game design and results in a lack of diversity in the long run as everyone will use the same imbalanced class. If paper always beats scissors, too, nobody will ever use a rock. If you are unable to grasp that as not just an aim, but as a necessity, then there Is no point in continuing. Have you examined the community to find out what their goals are? Not everyone has the same motivations or ambitions as you do. There is variety here. There is also variety in the game allowing people to forge their own path to victory. All along, Dust players have stated that there is not a single winning strategy in Dust. People from all walks can thrive here. Go forth, young warrior and find yours. If you need to be narrow minded to do that, then be my guest. I, myself, have been able to use dropsuits in multitudinous ways and still come out on top. I'm sure you will figure it out.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5104	Posted - 2015.01.10 19:36:00 - [166] - Quote Clone D wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: The entire concept of game balance and player classes is based on ONE simple principle: Every class has a particular function/role/specialization for which they are designed to be "best" at. No other class, when both are being used as intended by the designer should be nearly as effective at it. When this is no longer the case, one class is rendered obsolete. This is improper game design and results in a lack of diversity in the long run as everyone will use the same imbalanced class. If paper always beats scissors, too, nobody will ever use a rock. If you are unable to grasp that as not just an aim, but as a necessity, then there Is no point in continuing. Have you examined the community to find out what their goals are? Not everyone has the same motivations or ambitions as you do. There is variety here. There is also variety in the game allowing people to forge their own path to victory. All along, Dust players have stated that there is not a single winning strategy in Dust. People from all walks can thrive here. Go forth, young warrior and find yours. If you need to be narrow minded to do that, then be my guest. I, myself, have been able to use dropsuits in multitudinous ways and still come out on top. I'm sure you will figure it out. facepalm (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 185	Posted - 2015.01.11 15:26:00 - [167] - Quote Clone D wrote: ... then I must concoct a way to extract that information. Its called "asking a question." It can be done politely, if you're really after information, rather than trying to persuade people that your proposal to loosen the bandwidth restrictions was a good solution to the "problem" with which you opened the thread. I'm not suggesting that you should write to get people to like you. I'm suggesting that trolling or petulant arguments aren't the best way to persuade or learn from others. If you don't really think that "Logis aren't doing their jobs," if that was just a clever way to promote interest in your thread, if you were really just looking for information, then what was the real question you wanted to ask, but were concerned might be ignored if you asked it too politely? The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
thehellisgoingon The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 120	Posted - 2015.01.11 17:46:00 - [168] - Quote They took arrrr jaubssss!!!
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. 264	Posted - 2015.01.11 18:27:00 - [169] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Clone D wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I find it more odd that blueberries that are sniping aren't able to see the 10 dudes on the pipes dropping remotes. Or the 4 dropships flying around with no AV to be seen. Right on... To me, the primary difference is that snipers didn't push to be the only role to have the right to kill infantry. Logis did push hard to hold primary domain over equipment, thereby restricting other roles from interfering with their WP grubbing. However, now we see evidence that logis are not supporting the team very well. I don't think that they can handle the responsibility alone. In order for me to make things right, I am forced to stop performing the Assault\|Scout\|Point Defense\|AV role I want to do, change into a logi and perform their role for them because they are incapable. Then, I am forced to remain in that role, which super sucks because I don't want to be a logi period. Logis said, "We've got this under control. You don't neeeeed the ability to deploy multiple equipment." I guess they were wrong, and they can't cope with the responisibility. Ever stop and think that maybe what you are seeing is actually how few logi's are really out there? And then to further that question. Why are there so few logis out there ? But every night I burn. Screaming the animal scream. Every night I burn. Dreaming the crow-black dream
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5106	Posted - 2015.01.11 19:16:00 - [170] - Quote ^ sad that this question continues to get overlooked in the sea of scout QQ we see here. Just want to point out one thing: told you so. All you people who whined about nerfing logi suits "because spam" or never buffing them because "oh noes slayer logis are the boogie man". Now you see the truth. Spam had NOTHING to do with logis and everything to do with scrubby spam tourists. Anyway, back to the I portent question. IMO the main issue is the logi suits are in dire need of a buff. They are simultaneously slow, squishy, and expensive. That's the worst possible combination. There's a whole excellent thread started by Cross but this is the gist of it. 1) whether you make them heavier than assaults or lighter/faster than assaults, one of the two has to happen. If you want us squishy, fine, but we can't also be so damn slow. If you want us slow, then we need some HP or resistances. 2) The bonuses need to be tweaked so that we are not restricted to only one kind of EQ. Example: It's stupid that a rep tool works just as well on a gal scout or cal assault than it does on my Amarr logi suit. Those two things alone would go a long way. Also, those corps that apparently tell their logis they need to just shut up and leash a sentinel are a big part of the problem. Nobody learns how to be a f*cking actual logi any more! (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)

Sir Petersen D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1100	Posted - 2015.01.11 19:21:00 - [171] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: ^ sad that this question continues to get overlooked in the sea of scout QQ we see here. Just want to point out one thing: told you so. All you people who whined about nerfing logi suits "because spam" or never buffing them because "oh noes slayer logis are the boogie man". Now you see the truth. Spam had NOTHING to do with logis and everything to do with scrubby spam tourists. Anyway, back to the I portent question. IMO the main issue is the logi suits are in dire need of a buff. They are simultaneously slow, squishy, and expensive. That's the worst possible combination. There's a whole excellent thread started by Cross but this is the gist of it. 1) whether you make them heavier than assaults or lighter/faster than assaults, one of the two has to happen. If you want us squishy, fine, but we can't also be so damn slow. If you want us slow, then we need some HP or resistances. 2) The bonuses need to be tweaked so that we are not restricted to only one kind of EQ. Example: It's stupid that a rep tool works just as well on a gal scout or cal assault than it does on my Amarr logi suit. Those two things alone would go a long way. Also, those corps that apparently tell their logis they need to just shut up and leash a sentinel are a big part of the problem. Nobody learns how to be a f*cking actual logi any more! Perhaps it would have been a good idea to do some of those things you mention before erasing the uplink scout from the game.
Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 231	Posted - 2015.01.11 19:27:00 - [172] - Quote Clone D wrote: Logis pushed for sole propriety over equipment. They got it, and now what? There are many more matches without any uplinks on the field whatsoever. Proximity explosives are a thing of the past because logis have better things to do? Logis are doing the one thing that they know how to do. Latch onto a heavy and hold R1 for the remainder of the match. Do your jobs logis. If you see a battlefield with all red letters and no friendly uplinks, then you didn't do your job. Learn how to prevent that. Don't make me stop assaulting and capturing objectives, because you don't know how to do your job, so that I can do it for you. [EDIT] Key concepts "role transference" and "margin of supporting contribution" found on page 4 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2558794#post2558794. Succinctly stated: There are not enough logis in the player base to support teams. Every other role needs to pitch in a helping hand. Because of this, we need to add a few extra bandwidth (maybe 4) to each dropsuit due to the expectation of role transference. I believe its the bandwidth that did it Sir Dukey- If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5106	Posted - 2015.01.11 22:45:00 - [173] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: ^ sad that this question continues to get overlooked in the sea of scout QQ we see here. Just want to point out one thing: told you so. All you people who whined about nerfing logi suits "because spam" or never buffing them because "oh noes slayer logis are the boogie man". Now you see the truth. Spam had NOTHING to do with logis and everything to do with scrubby spam tourists. Anyway, back to the I portent question. IMO the main issue is the logi suits are in dire need of a buff. They are simultaneously slow, squishy, and expensive. That's the worst possible combination. There's a whole excellent thread started by Cross but this is the gist of it. 1) whether you make them heavier than assaults or lighter/faster than assaults, one of the two has to happen. If you want us squishy, fine, but we can't also be so damn slow. If you want us slow, then we need some HP or resistances. 2) The bonuses need to be tweaked so that we are not restricted to only one kind of EQ. Example: It's stupid that a rep tool works just as well on a gal scout or cal assault than it does on my Amarr logi suit. Those two things alone would go a long way. Also, those corps that apparently tell their logis they need to just shut up and leash a sentinel are a big part of the problem. Nobody learns how to be a f*cking actual logi any more! Perhaps it would have been a good idea to do some of those things you mention before erasing the uplink scout from the game. I agree 100%. Problem is, Cross is on vacation or AWOL or something and Rattati apparently is incapable of reconciling the fact that the Amarr logi has a sidearm when rebalancing slot progression, so.... Everything old is new again with Dust development, I guess. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16497	Posted - 2015.01.11 22:46:00 - [174] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: C'mon brah do yer job! *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5107	Posted - 2015.01.11 22:54:00 - [175] - Quote True Adamance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: C'mon brah do yer job! Lol. It would be a rare event for someone to complain that there were no uplinks while I was around. However, I find myself less inclined to play with most of my old comrades in arms gone! So, I guess it's really your fault! (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1466	Posted - 2015.01.12 00:15:00 - [176] - Quote >sees thread name >gets serious >sees it's by clone D > Oh yes clone D,we should increase BW for non equipment based suits. That don't sacrifice eHP and speed for the privilege,like logistics does. Assault extra 160 eHP,8-9 slots with high speed clearly isn't enough. Would you like god mode too? Perhaps an 'i win' button that automatically makes your team victorious? I assume you'll campaign equally as hard for all logistics to get a sidearm too right? After all leaving the killing 'burden' on assaults isn't right,and logistics should be able to kill if one isn't around. See,i can be stupid too. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Clone D 1304	Posted - 2015.01.12 02:01:00 - [177] - Quote Meee One wrote: [...]See,i can be stupid too. Oh, hey bro. Did you ever see this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2542839#post2542839 I was interested in your PE strategies. RayRay replied earlier in this thread about how he deploys minefields, but I still wanted to hear what you had to say about it.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1470	Posted - 2015.01.12 18:48:00 - [178] - Quote Clone D wrote: Meee One wrote: [...]See,i can be stupid too. Oh, hey bro. Did you ever see this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2542839#post2542839 I was interested in your PE strategies. RayRay replied earlier in this thread about how he deploys minefields, but I still wanted to hear what you had to say about it. In legion logistics is the designated 'demolitions' class. So in legion in order to even have access to MD or RE/PE you'll have to go down the logistics tree. As to 'laying out a mine field',logistics can do that and easily carry another equipment. Just don't do it solo,unless the area is clear. Then again,if your so complacent as a logistics to focus on the ground it must be a secure area right? PEs aren't grenades meant to be offensive,they are for re-inforcing an already secure area. So,as to placement: -in a secure area -use logistics -as many as it takes to be a deterrent If you use logistics you can use all your BW and still: -rep -rez -scan As to switching suits: -I don't,ever,i run pure logistics 100% of the time,unless i'm broke then i run MLT Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Clone D 1305	Posted - 2015.01.12 22:07:00 - [179] - Quote Meee One wrote: PEs aren't grenades meant to be offensive,they are for re-inforcing an already secure area. Yes, I've found that they are useful for reinforcing a secure area. However, I've also used them to deter enemies from specific routes. Another advanced application is to funnel the opponent into a specific direction, like toward your A/V personnel. Primarily what I'm interested in learning is how many PEs you deploy at once, and what you do with yourself after you lay your minefield. Do you change logi suits afterward and do rep/res/scan until your PEs blow?


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