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Logis Aren't Doing Thier Jobs

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Jeanne D'Arc IV Red Star. 35	Posted - 2015.01.08 06:12:00 - [91] - Quote I will reitere my old idea, make equipment with different db Std proto link 20 spawn proto links avoid std scanner 15 spawn proto link avoid adv scanner 10 spawn proto links avoof proto scanner 5 spawn has idea
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6193	Posted - 2015.01.08 08:49:00 - [92] - Quote Clone D wrote: Logis pushed for sole propriety over equipment. They got it, and now what? There are many more matches without any uplinks on the field whatsoever. Proximity explosives are a thing of the past because logis have better things to do? Logis are doing the one thing that they know how to do. Latch onto a heavy and hold R1 for the remainder of the match. Do your jobs logis. If you see a battlefield with all red letters and no friendly uplinks, then you didn't do your job. Learn how to prevent that. Don't make me stop assaulting and capturing objectives, because you don't know how to do your job, so that I can do it for you. [EDIT] Key concept "margin of supporting contribution" found on page 4. There never were a lot of dedicated logis. Most of them were tourists. Now we see just how few dedicated logistics players there actually are. Which is hilarious because everyone else treats them like they are valueless. Time to start making nice to people who enjoy support play rather than deriding and trolling them, huh? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1735	Posted - 2015.01.08 09:18:00 - [93] - Quote I played minmatar logi quite long and playing REAL logi for extended amount of time results into being the most boring thing ever. beside that, logis are slow, do not sport good hp and have medium suit ewar only. logis are easy prays for shotgun scouts. other than that, logis print WP nonstop.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1446	Posted - 2015.01.08 11:25:00 - [94] - Quote Clone D wrote: Byozuma Kegawa wrote: Uplinks have short lifespans due to people actually hunting them down, half the time to spawn-camp and the other to actually get rid of it. Proximities have classically been the purview of scouts because logistics have better things to do (like keeping sentinels/squads covered/healthy). A logistics role isn't advancing into held territory without support, that's what scouts do. Logistics are support roles, thus they don't usually travel solo hacking objectives and dropping explosives. And uplinks tend to happen when opportune. 1. If you are a logi and you're setting uplinks in places where they can be camped, and you're not protecting them then YOU ARE MAKING A SPAWN TRAP for your team. Learn how to deploy an uplink. You're not doing your job right. 2. If you are a logi and you have better things to do than set proximity explosives, WHO IS SUPPOSED TO DO IT? Scouts do not have enough bandwidth to deploy an effective mine field. PEs are equipment and belong in the domain of the logis who are designed to deploy equipment. You must be a much better player than me if you can go alone to lay uplinks and then defend them with your logi suit. You are scannable, squishy and probably should be with a squad. Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. BW limited those who sought to be versatile for the sake of those who play the well established roles, proto players and squads. I bring uplinks but I know they have a very limited lifespan and besides trying to place them well, I can no longer do anything else about them Because, that's why.
Clone D 1296	Posted - 2015.01.08 11:27:00 - [95] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. Who is supposed to lay proxies now? Can you describe a strategy that makes sense?
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 126	Posted - 2015.01.08 13:53:00 - [96] - Quote Clone D wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: For logis to work properly they need to be supporting a squad. [...] Sounds lke the logi union catch phrase. NO NO NO. I as an assault have to stop what I'm doing, change into a logi suit, call a dropship and set uplinks around the field, to create a doorway back into battle. IF I CAN DO IT. A LOGI WHO SPECCED INTO THAT ROLE CAN DO IT. Do your jobs logis. catch phrase...excellent! I spawn in with a scout and put them down, I tell my guys "he who has uplinks wins" unless of course your opponents are blue shield laggers. CCP fix your latency.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1449	Posted - 2015.01.08 14:01:00 - [97] - Quote Clone D wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. Who is supposed to lay proxies now? Can you describe a strategy that makes sense? Nope. Because, that's why.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 323	Posted - 2015.01.08 14:18:00 - [98] - Quote Clone D wrote: 7th Son 7 wrote: What's wrong with making an assault suit that has uplinks for those occassions? c'mon man If the field is devoid of uplinks, then logis didn't do their jobs. I am devoting my equipment slot to REs (or a nanohive, since there is never a logi around when you need one). needle, hive, scanner, and nanohives? How exactly is a logi not doing there job? Other suits have equipment slots as well. The uplink is tailored for scouts and assaults (plus amar logi). In many of the PC battles I played in it was everyone's responsibility to run uplinks. Sage /thread
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 126	Posted - 2015.01.08 14:19:00 - [99] - Quote Clone D wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. Who is supposed to lay proxies now? Can you describe a strategy that makes sense? proxies need to be buffed by multitudes, and have a arming timer so that placement is a thoughtful process-with these changes making them a valued piece of kit. I would like to be able to "shape" my zone to a greater degree, and influencing armor via making them be "thoughtful in behavior" would add depth to game play. Uplinks and proxies are hurting, and the latter have always been quasi modo due to being under powered.
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1006	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:13:00 - [100] - Quote Clone D wrote: If there are no logis on the team, then I must bite the bullet, admit that there is a need and I have the potential to meet that need, so I ... must ... ... logi because the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the few or the one. But I just got suckered into playing a role that I do not want to play for the remainder of the match. So, now we finally come to the real issue. It's not that "logis aren't doing their jobs" it's that there aren't enough people running logi. Or at least, based on my experience, not enough people not running some ****** APEX (logi) suit. Oh, I know that there are plenty of matches where very little equipment is placed. But while bandwidth has limited some of the previous logi tourism, it is pretty obvious that so many people running APEX suits (and it wouldn't surprise me if logistics commit this sin more than any other role, for obvious reasons) has a lot to do with it as well. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"

Jay Westen Sky-FIRE 147	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:28:00 - [101] - Quote Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you.
Clone D 1298	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:36:00 - [102] - Quote Jay Westen wrote: Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you. That is fine. I don't need your support. But the team does. Don't neglect everyone else please. Keep your lack of support between us. Thanks.
Clone D 1298	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:39:00 - [103] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: Clone D wrote: If there are no logis on the team, then I must bite the bullet, admit that there is a need and I have the potential to meet that need, so I ... must ... ... logi because the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the few or the one. But I just got suckered into playing a role that I do not want to play for the remainder of the match. So, now we finally come to the real issue. It's not that "logis aren't doing their jobs" it's that there aren't enough people actually playing logi. Or at least, based on my experience, not enough people not running some ****** APEX (logi) suit. Oh, I know that there are plenty of matches where very little equipment is placed. But while bandwidth has limited some of the previous logi tourism, it is pretty obvious that so many people running APEX suits (and it wouldn't surprise me if logistics commit this sin more than any other role, for obvious reasons) has a lot to do with it as well. Exactly, so since there are a shortage of logis, we need to add some bandwidth buffer to other roles in order for them to help logis deploy a little extra equipment on the field. Not a lot, just one additional uplink or so ought to do it. That way, all other roles aren't sacrificing the equipment that they need in order to perform their role just to help logis distribute equipment.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 708	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:41:00 - [104] - Quote Jay Westen wrote: Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you. And here we have the Golden Heart of the matter. For the Algebraically inclined who missed the formula, here it is: x= talking ** about Logis/Logistics y= BandWidth limits forced on Logis z=Logi suits being largely underpowered W= fewer people giving a about supporting scrubs. W= x(z+y)** Tears for everyone!! Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 708	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:43:00 - [105] - Quote Clone D wrote: Jay Westen wrote: Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you. That is fine. I don't need your support. But the team does. Don't neglect everyone else please. Keep your lack of support between us. Thanks. Maybe you should slay more, faster, so that the little support you do get isn't squandered. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 708	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:45:00 - [106] - Quote Clone D wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: Clone D wrote: If there are no logis on the team, then I must bite the bullet, admit that there is a need and I have the potential to meet that need, so I ... must ... ... logi because the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the few or the one. But I just got suckered into playing a role that I do not want to play for the remainder of the match. So, now we finally come to the real issue. It's not that "logis aren't doing their jobs" it's that there aren't enough people actually playing logi. Or at least, based on my experience, not enough people not running some ****** APEX (logi) suit. Oh, I know that there are plenty of matches where very little equipment is placed. But while bandwidth has limited some of the previous logi tourism, it is pretty obvious that so many people running APEX suits (and it wouldn't surprise me if logistics commit this sin more than any other role, for obvious reasons) has a lot to do with it as well. Exactly, so since there are a shortage of logis, we need to add some bandwidth buffer to other roles in order for them to help logis deploy a little extra equipment on the field. Not a lot, just one additional uplink or so ought to do it. That way, all other roles aren't sacrificing the equipment that they need in order to perform their role just to help logis distribute equipment. No, because SPAM. And tourists. And crappy slayer tears are actually good. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Jay Westen Sky-FIRE 147	Posted - 2015.01.08 17:52:00 - [107] - Quote Clone D wrote: Jay Westen wrote: Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you. That is fine. I don't need your support. But the team does. Don't neglect everyone else please. Keep your lack of support between us. Thanks. Regrettably, me not supporting you means I don't uplink, and nanohive either. You should really think before you speak.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5081	Posted - 2015.01.08 18:11:00 - [108] - Quote Ok, let's try this, OP. Lets say we buff proxies and change the BW to 1. RE's also get a BW cost of 1. Now whats your opinion? (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
Clone D 1298	Posted - 2015.01.08 18:20:00 - [109] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Ok, let's try this, OP. Lets say we buff proxies and change the BW to 1. RE's also get a BW cost of 1. Now whats your opinion? Would be so sweet!
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6214	Posted - 2015.01.08 18:22:00 - [110] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Ok, let's try this, OP. Lets say we buff proxies and change the BW to 1. RE's also get a BW cost of 1. Now whats your opinion? Enemy engaged. Kill him Johnny boy! On a more serious note: No more asslogi lite suits for clone D! Every time you agree with clone D, god kills a kitten. Think of the kittens. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 711	Posted - 2015.01.08 18:27:00 - [111] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Ok, let's try this, OP. Lets say we buff proxies and change the BW to 1. RE's also get a BW cost of 1. Now whats your opinion? More scout RE spam, YAY!! Munson be praised!!! Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 716	Posted - 2015.01.08 18:29:00 - [112] - Quote Clone D wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Proxies are one option, one that to be effective requires as many proxies as you can lay down, meaning no links, hives or remotes. It seens like a poor tradeoff for a logi to do this. Who is supposed to lay proxies now? Can you describe a strategy that makes sense? Amarr AV Logis. Close the Gates! Ignite the Moat!! Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 96	Posted - 2015.01.08 23:51:00 - [113] - Quote Clone D wrote: Jay Westen wrote: Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you. That is fine. I don't need your support. But the team does. Don't neglect everyone else please. Keep your lack of support between us. Thanks. Ah ha ha! Says the lone wolf, won't squad with anyone player.
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet 96	Posted - 2015.01.09 00:04:00 - [114] - Quote Clone D wrote: Jay Westen wrote: Hate to say it clone d, but after your previous rant about logistics getting to many warpoints and it being a simpletons class. I outright refuse to support you. That is fine. I don't need your support. But the team does. Don't neglect everyone else please. Keep your lack of support between us. Thanks. Clearly you do because your inferring that if the team fails you fail. Step up to the plate or quit wining about the lack of dedicated logis. Your logic is so flawed.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5085	Posted - 2015.01.09 07:09:00 - [115] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Ok, let's try this, OP. Lets say we buff proxies and change the BW to 1. RE's also get a BW cost of 1. Now whats your opinion? Enemy engaged. Kill him Johnny boy! grabs controller R-L-R-spin Oh wait, wrong one... Anyway, so here's the thing OP. You're doing it wrong. I already pretty much knew the answer. We've simoly confirmed the truth. BW is not the problem here. Neither are all the "bad logis" running around (I'll get to that in a second. Edit: in another thread). You're just spamming all these needless flame bait threads and looking like an unreasonable troll. Not that thats new and unprecedented, but you either don't realize or aren't even asking for what it is you really want! You are either a very accomplished troll setting us up for your actual request or have made all this wasted effort asking for the wrong thing. My advice? Realize that all you really want is not only fairly simple but also far more palatable to the rest of us. It's not like you can frisbee 4 at a time. Hell, I'm totally down with reducing the BW cost of explosives, though Im not sure that a cost of 1 for both types is the best number. Up for discussion. TL;DR FFS stop wasting everyone's time(including your own) with this aimless trololol and just ask for what you really want, which is basically just more splosions. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1951	Posted - 2015.01.09 07:59:00 - [116] - Quote To often he's days I have to stop running my scout or tank and put on my cal logi to carry my team with up links and hives . Proud Caldari purist . Rank 10 colonel omiwarrior. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
Clone D 1298	Posted - 2015.01.09 13:14:00 - [117] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Anyway, so here's the thing OP. You're doing it wrong. I already pretty much knew the answer. We've simply confirmed the truth. BW is not the problem here. Neither are all the "bad logis" running around (I'll get to that in a second. Edit: in another thread). You're just spamming all these needless flame bait threads and looking like an unreasonable troll. Not that thats new and unprecedented, but you either don't realize or aren't even asking for what it is you really want! You are either a very accomplished troll setting us up for your actual request or have made all this wasted effort asking for the wrong thing. My advice? Realize that all you really want is not only fairly simple but also far more palatable to the rest of us. It's not like you can frisbee 4 at a time. Hell, I'm totally down with reducing the BW cost of explosives, though Im not sure that a cost of 1 for both types is the best number. Up for discussion. TL;DR FFS stop wasting everyone's time(including your own) with this aimless trololol and just ask for what you really want, which is basically just more splosions. Ruh Roh, looks like somebody didn't read the key concept on page 4. My opinion is: There are not enough logis in the meta to support teams. Every other role needs to pitch in a helping hand. Because of this, we need to add a few extra bandwidth (maybe 4) to each dropsuit due to the expectation of role transference.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5090	Posted - 2015.01.09 13:20:00 - [118] - Quote Clone D wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Anyway, so here's the thing OP. You're doing it wrong. I already pretty much knew the answer. We've simply confirmed the truth. BW is not the problem here. Neither are all the "bad logis" running around (I'll get to that in a second. Edit: in another thread). You're just spamming all these needless flame bait threads and looking like an unreasonable troll. Not that thats new and unprecedented, but you either don't realize or aren't even asking for what it is you really want! You are either a very accomplished troll setting us up for your actual request or have made all this wasted effort asking for the wrong thing. My advice? Realize that all you really want is not only fairly simple but also far more palatable to the rest of us. It's not like you can frisbee 4 at a time. Hell, I'm totally down with reducing the BW cost of explosives, though Im not sure that a cost of 1 for both types is the best number. Up for discussion. TL;DR FFS stop wasting everyone's time(including your own) with this aimless trololol and just ask for what you really want, which is basically just more splosions. Ruh Roh, looks like somebody didn't read the key concept on page 4. My opinion is: There are not enough logis in the meta to support teams. Every other role needs to pitch in a helping hand. Because of this, we need to add a few extra bandwidth (maybe 4) to each dropsuit due to the expectation of role transference. So again, no. We need to fix the logi suits (Rattati has buffed literally every other suit), not take steps backward. Then why did you answer my question as you did? Now you wouldn't be happy with just changing the BW costs of explosives? All righty. Carry on with your badposting then I guess. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)
Clone D 1298	Posted - 2015.01.09 13:24:00 - [119] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Clone D wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Anyway, so here's the thing OP. You're doing it wrong. I already pretty much knew the answer. We've simply confirmed the truth. BW is not the problem here. Neither are all the "bad logis" running around (I'll get to that in a second. Edit: in another thread). You're just spamming all these needless flame bait threads and looking like an unreasonable troll. Not that thats new and unprecedented, but you either don't realize or aren't even asking for what it is you really want! You are either a very accomplished troll setting us up for your actual request or have made all this wasted effort asking for the wrong thing. My advice? Realize that all you really want is not only fairly simple but also far more palatable to the rest of us. It's not like you can frisbee 4 at a time. Hell, I'm totally down with reducing the BW cost of explosives, though Im not sure that a cost of 1 for both types is the best number. Up for discussion. TL;DR FFS stop wasting everyone's time(including your own) with this aimless trololol and just ask for what you really want, which is basically just more splosions. Ruh Roh, looks like somebody didn't read the key concept on page 4. My opinion is: There are not enough logis in the meta to support teams. Every other role needs to pitch in a helping hand. Because of this, we need to add a few extra bandwidth (maybe 4) to each dropsuit due to the expectation of role transference. So again, no. Then why did you answer my question as you did? Now you wouldn't be happy with just changing the BW costs of explosives? All righty. Carry on with your badposting then I guess. I like the recommendation that you offered up about 1 bw for explosives. I think it makes sense, as PEs have become a thing of legend, and the RE bandwidth also feels too limiting.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 5091	Posted - 2015.01.09 15:09:00 - [120] - Quote Clone D wrote: I like the recommendation that you offered up about 1 bw for explosives. I think it makes sense, as PEs have become a thing of legend, and the RE bandwidth also feels too limiting. OK, good. At least one thing we can work with. Backtracking to my previous question, so what you are saying that if RE BW was dropped, you would still be dissatisfied with the BW system? Why? When you give your answer, please assume for the sake of the discussion that BW is never ever going to be completely removed from the game and it is mandatory for further game development that we have a thriving Logi community. It doesn't (and shouldn't) have to be a huge % of the playerbase but sufficient enough that we are not unicorns. Operating under that set of conditions, what would make you happy with this system? Note: Aside from reducing the BW costs of explosives to free up BW for something else, giving scouts more BW is not on the table because as I've already stated, there's no way that will incentivize people to become logi's - it is in fact guaranteed to do the exact opposite because we've already tried letting scouts be do-everything suits with their second EQ slot and here we are. It's not a coincidence that scouts were given so little BW in the first place. (The godfather of tactical logisticsGäó)



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