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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2614	Posted - 2014.12.24 20:01:00 - [91] - Quote nicholas73 wrote: Looks interesting, looking forward to see how it will work out. Though I am also afraid of the hundreds of other stuff that might break when this launches, please properly QA the stuff before launching it. As in putting it up on the test server with a bunch of corps will all their SP to let us see what it's like and pick out any bugs. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 20507	Posted - 2014.12.24 20:03:00 - [92] - Quote The only way for Loyalty Rank to be a sensible metric is for it to be based on actual activity and not the amount of money spent. Otherwise, money will directly translate into corporate strength. Sometimes, one just has an overwhelming urge to throw a potato at someone.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5547	Posted - 2014.12.24 20:15:00 - [93] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: It appears that I'll have to be very diligent in this thread. PC discussion always get lost in complex issues when the number one concern should be, "How do we get thousands and thousands of players involved instead of hundreds?". That is a key goal of allowing people to generate clone packs through tho system. To reduce the entry barrier significantly. But one of the biggest complaints from those that have tried PC is the wait around for 30 minutes and not get chosen. A fight or two every other day isn't going to change much. On a given scale it'll still be the best 16 vs the best 16. It won't put any strain on the status quo. Timers, timers, timers. Have I mentioned that timers are one of the biggest things holding PC back? Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
The-Errorist 933	Posted - 2014.12.24 20:29:00 - [94] - Quote I would first want you guys to fix the logis like you said you would, but chickened out. As for pillars for the PC changes, sure they look nice, but its still gonna be the same old skirmish battles. Please make Skirmish 3.0 a priority for FW and PC like so many of us suggested in the past. On a side note, have you seen how awesome Hawken's siege mode is? After you make skirmish 3.0 happen, can consider making a mode similar to that? Like STYLIE77 said, the corp management tools in dust are sorely lacking; one big issue is that dust CEOs can't form/apply to alliances. Also there should be an easier way to see one's own corp roles in the My Corp menu. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: @Community ... For example the war barge does not have to be so tied down into PC that it cannot be an asset enjoyed elsewhere. I mean what if the personal ship doesn't start out as a barge but is more like the titan of eve; the highest end personal goal you can set for yourself being a daunting task to upgrade to that size? ... @CCP Rattati Change Corp Loyalty into Corp Standings. This is more eve sensical and lowers confusion hopefully. Having Corp Loyalty renamed to Corp Standings does sound like a nice change. Having these war assets start out small and have applications outside of PC would be cool. After players build and or upgrade their personal warbarges, they should be able to donate it to the Corp's assets, and that should increase the individual's standing with their corp. Those standings should control how much bonuses one gets from being in that corp. The number of warbarges and the Warbarge Command modules fitted on them should also influence how much bonuses are given at each corp standing. Progressing through the corp standings should be similar to loyalty ranks except for the spending AUR part. EDIT: Warbarges should also give some kind of bonuses to EVE players too and they should have some way to increase production of warbarges (maybe making them themselves?) or something else that benefits corps besides being able to drop OBs in PC. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill AKA Enkouyami (Main PSN).
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5119	Posted - 2014.12.24 20:38:00 - [95] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Timers, timers, timers. Have I mentioned that timers are one of the biggest things holding PC back? I understand you believe that. It doesn't mean you're right. Timers are critical for allowing players accomplishments to mean something, and not requiring the people managing for their corp to have to eat, sleep, and breathe the game 24/7. That being said, some reasonable adjustments to timers are well-warranted, and I heavily advocate making it impossible to squat 50 districts in the 1200 UTC timer. Thor Odinson42 wrote: But one of the biggest complaints from those that have tried PC is the wait around for 30 minutes and not get chosen. A fight or two every other day isn't going to change much. On a given scale it'll still be the best 16 vs the best 16. It won't put any strain on the status quo. I disagree. A lot more corps being able to afford a lot more clone packs regularly means holding districts DOES become a lot more work. There will be a lot more corps in play, and a lot more battles on the schedule. The same 16 people won't be able to be in every match all the time, especially since this system should help reduce alt corp locking tactics as well. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5970	Posted - 2014.12.24 20:41:00 - [96] - Quote Make raids (non-conquering strikes on districts) a thing. that way a corp can hotdrop a district for no other reason than to shoot people and of course to harvest this nebulous nanotechnetium from their land, rob the local townsfolk for ISK after subduing the natives then peace out and go back to being bastards elsewhere. I want to be a reaver, not the gorram Roman Empire. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5120	Posted - 2014.12.24 20:43:00 - [97] - Quote Generic commentary on the thread: Very glad this is out here now, I hope everyone has a lot of ideas and feedback on it. I saw a few people saying the barge should be a corp asset rather than a personal one. Some of us on the CPM lean that way as well, your feedback is surely valued on that topic. This is all high level stuff, and there's lots of room for tweaks to the system. And remember that this is an iterative process, so parts that don't work well can be tweaked and adjusted down the line. A few people wanted to know why the CPM didn't openly discuss our own proposal for PC. One of the major reasons for that was because our documents and CCP's documents were extremely similar. Both CCP Rattati and the CPM had an extremely similar view of what the key points were to making Planetary Conquest worthwhile, interesting, and exciting. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5120	Posted - 2014.12.24 20:45:00 - [98] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Make raids (non-conquering strikes on districts) a thing. that way a corp can hotdrop a district for no other reason than to shoot people and of course to harvest this nebulous nanotechnetium from their land, rob the local townsfolk for ISK after subduing the natives then peace out and go back to being bastards elsewhere. This is definitely something we discussed, and I'd like to see. Also, non-conquering matches are the realm of thing where it may be easy to do more short-notice battles for ISK. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 14065	Posted - 2014.12.24 20:45:00 - [99] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Timers, timers, timers. Have I mentioned that timers are one of the biggest things holding PC back? I understand you believe that. It doesn't mean you're right. Timers are critical for allowing players accomplishments to mean something, and not requiring the people managing for their corp to have to eat, sleep, and breathe the game 24/7. That being said, some reasonable adjustments to timers are well-warranted, and I heavily advocate making it impossible to squat 50 districts in the 1200 UTC timer. Timers can be handled more organically. The current implementation is restrictive as all hell. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5970	Posted - 2014.12.24 20:49:00 - [100] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Timers, timers, timers. Have I mentioned that timers are one of the biggest things holding PC back? I understand you believe that. It doesn't mean you're right. Timers are critical for allowing players accomplishments to mean something, and not requiring the people managing for their corp to have to eat, sleep, and breathe the game 24/7. That being said, some reasonable adjustments to timers are well-warranted, and I heavily advocate making it impossible to squat 50 districts in the 1200 UTC timer. Timers can be handled more organically. The current implementation is restrictive as all hell. Timers can stay for conquest. Let's make lesser engagements (such as when i drop myself and 15 random newbees on Molon Labe's planet to loot, pillage and otherwise steal everything nailed down we don't have to worry about whether "it's time" and Molon Labe can enjoy the practice session of getting their butts kicked by the clueless before the inevitable Nyain San conquest of their world. And my newbies get rewarded with neat loot. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 10574	Posted - 2014.12.24 21:01:00 - [101] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Fleen Costell'o wrote: Hmmm, waiting fanfest... Dunno what for. They're not doing anything for Dust 514 or Project Legion at Fanfest. I will host roundtables an various topics and a DUST 514 pubcrawl, that's not nothing Not enough for me to shell out $2000 to go to Iceland over, lol, hence why I wound up cancelling my tickets. In either case, shouldn't have to go to Fanfest to get information about either game. It's nice to have a beer with you guys, don't get me wrong, but I certainly shouldn't feel obligated to spend an entire portion of my salary to learn about my favorite game EDIT: Either way, good job on what you're proposing so far with these PC iterations. They look like a good start. Honestly, nobody goes to Fanfest just for a presentation. You go there to have fun with friends and strangers while enjoying the epic view of Iceland while experiencing the culture and cuisines of your viking overlords. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Terry Webber Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 531	Posted - 2014.12.24 21:20:00 - [102] - Quote Can't wait for these changes and additions, Rattati. It would be cool if it was possible for warbarges to be piloted by EVE or DUST players and be vulnerable to attack in EVE Online. Although, like other fellow posters, I'm concerned that the changes to PC would not help it in any way if the current Skirmish game mode is the only one available. I have never played the old version of Skirmish but from what I've read about it, it would really fit PC better if it had a few tweaks to make it more balanced.
Brush Master Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1373	Posted - 2014.12.24 21:30:00 - [103] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Modules will only work while the Corporations have a strong enough membership of real players (no alts), as measured by Loyalty Ranks or be gated in construction by membership, making it necessary to go out and recruit and train new players to get to the upper echelon of power. This may be done through the introduction of Corporation Rank as the defining metric for Corporation eligibility and power. Wait. Loyalty ranks are the defining metric of corporation power? I seriously hope this is not the case. Loyalty ranks are based almost entirely on the amount of AUR you've purchased. This is directly linking strength to how much money you've spent on the game. And this is pretty much the reason why "Loyalty" Ranks, as they are, should not be involved into any actual meaningful mechanic in the game. Some of us did raise concerns over amounts of aurum spent being (intentionally) cofused with activity levels in the first place... Ok, at the risk of skirting over the lines of NDA, I feel I should point out now to stop further confusion and prevent unnecessary angst that the term 'Loyalty Ranks' is a genaric term and shouldn't be assumed to be the same as what is already in the game. Revision: that being said the Loyality System we have in the game already is a pretty good indicator to determine alts created for the sake of making up numbers and alts that are actually actively used. When most refer to alts, alts are usually different PSN accounts due to the free sp that the game actually encouraged people to just make more free accounts instead of using the 2nd and 3rd character slots. So to say the loyalty ranks is a good indicator to determine alts, I think is a pretty inaccurate statement. Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ? True Logi. Flying DS from the start. @dustreports
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5123	Posted - 2014.12.24 21:41:00 - [104] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Fleen Costell'o wrote: Hmmm, waiting fanfest... Dunno what for. They're not doing anything for Dust 514 or Project Legion at Fanfest. I will host roundtables an various topics and a DUST 514 pubcrawl, that's not nothing Not enough for me to shell out $2000 to go to Iceland over, lol, hence why I wound up cancelling my tickets. In either case, shouldn't have to go to Fanfest to get information about either game. It's nice to have a beer with you guys, don't get me wrong, but I certainly shouldn't feel obligated to spend an entire portion of my salary to learn about my favorite game EDIT: Either way, good job on what you're proposing so far with these PC iterations. They look like a good start. Honestly, nobody goes to Fanfest just for a presentation. You go there to have fun with friends and strangers while enjoying the epic view of Iceland while experiencing the culture and cuisines of your viking overlords. Aeon's case is a key reason why we encouraged that information to be posted. It is not good form to let players shell out that kind of money for international travel on false expectations. And several people seemed to be under the impression that they should expect a giant Legion keynote with beta versions playable on the floor or something like that. There's a lot of good reasons to go to Fanfest. I have heard nothing but positive impressions from people about how Fanfest is as an event, and I'm excited to go this year. (My wallet, however, is not excited about this, as it is now empty.) But it's good that people have the right expectations. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
da GAND Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 1077	Posted - 2014.12.24 23:24:00 - [105] - Quote Interesting and I have no problems with these changes at all, looking forward to all these things. Should Legion be on the ps4?
Leither Yiltron Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1054	Posted - 2014.12.24 23:44:00 - [106] - Quote Rat, it's great to have this information. There are, however, two very distinct subsystems you have treated here: Warbarges, and Planetary Conquest. Your language in the post overlaps and intertwines those two systems in an alarming way. At best, War Barges, implemented, have the potential to interact with PC mechanics. The two are separate. It is mission-critically essential to understand that PC cannot be fixed without a fundamental redesign of its own mechanics. Adding and integrating War Barge mechanics on top of the current PC mechanics cannot fix or redeem PC. The current Planetary Conquest mechanics are NOT in a state where they can be iterated on. Dev time used iterating on the current mechanics rather than redesigning them IS a waste. These statements come with the support of nearly two years of history with the current PC. If PC were at all in a place to be iterated on and not redesigned, the community would have been making those suggestions for the last year rather than trying to suggest band-aid patches to stem the bleeding since the current design is nearly unplayable. If there's some low-grade band-aid work done that integrates War Barges into the current PC mechanics very loosely before the necessary fundamental PC rework, that's reasonable. Anything past that, though, is both wasted time and will encourage you not to abandon the work you've put in when the time comes to redo PC. That will be an even worse decision. What you have posted are not ideological pillars. They are bullet points on a rough sketch of some implementations. The difference is extremely important; we need to know the design goals driving these changes and be able to comment on them directly. With this perspective, here's some commentary on your post: CCP Rattati wrote: Phase Two We want to allow Corporations to be measured on their collective Warbarge Fleets. The Corporation will then be able to invest in power structure/umbrella that either increases the power of each individual Warbarge module or grants brand new bonuses to the Corporation, tentatively called Warbarge Command. Modules will only work while the Corporations have a strong enough membership of real players (no alts), as measured by Loyalty Ranks or be gated in construction by membership, making it necessary to go out and recruit and train new players to get to the upper echelon of power. This may be done through the introduction of Corporation Rank as the defining metric for Corporation eligibility and power. There needs to be an extremely serious discussion about how alliances fit into this picture. Alliances have been the red-headed stepchild of Dust, and unnecessarily at that. If the game design continues to ignore their existence, then a metric ton of new and more granular roles need to be added to corporation structure to allow for less risky distribution of power. The roles and mechanics we have currently aren't really sufficient to administer a corporation that's active in PC that has more than maybe 1k members without much hardship. More emphatically, though, I would suggest including alliances in the game's design going forward. One of the hardships of being a PC organizer, for instance, is that people very rarely want to leave their corps and alliances might as well not exist according to the mechanics. This is just one instance across a huge span of them where alliances could be integrated with the game but are discounted. CCP Rattati wrote: The lynchpin to this step is the introduction of the Warbarge Clone Vats Module (name TBD) where Clonepacks can be built with regular intervals, allowing Corporations without Districts to launch relatively risk free attacks on Districts. These attacks should be initiated from a list of Districts, displaying Timers, Clones, Corporation and other useful statistics and not from the Starmap itself. Finally, we are working on a different reward method for Planetary Conquest, primarily based on the simple premis of GÇ£you get what you destroyedGÇ¥. Combined with a minimum Corporation Rank to initiate attacks, we may see the end of district-locking and exploits in 2015. We may also reduce the available Timers and/or set Districts to fixed Timers that canGÇÖt be changed. All of this except for (maybe?) the clone vats is a direct contradiction of my original suggestion. Making UI changes to accommodate the current, broken PC mechanics as well as iterating on the rewards structure without a fundamental redesign are complete wastes of time. Trying to change a very specific part of the current PC mechanics (timers) without a fundamental redesign is also wasteful. You will not be able to repair current PC with these changes, and I distinctly feel like a properly top-down redesign of PC that has community feedback could easily make these mechanics obsolete. District locking and exploits are a result of the core PC mechanics that need redesigning. It's wishful thinking that they'll be fixed by iterating on a broken foundation. CCP Rattati wrote: Phase Three All of it. This phase sounds like it should include the fundamental redesign that I've been discussing. You need to open up this discussion to the community now, before you marry yourself to some implementation that fundamentally won't work. There is not a single group of 5-10 people working anywhere within Dust at the moment that have the capacity to make a good PC implementation by themselves without additional feedback. It would be incredibly ineffective for CCP and the CPM to cook up an elaborate implementation and then only ask for feedback on the numbers from the community. CCPers have never really understood the factors the go into PC, only 3 of the CPM have ever played PC competitively, and only one has done a lot of logistical work in PC. Thanks for the post, both Rat & CCP Shanghai, and many happy returns. Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi Have a pony
Leither Yiltron Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1054	Posted - 2014.12.24 23:48:00 - [107] - Quote Sorry for a bit of a double post, I ran out of characters on the last one. One of the most helpful things CCP and the CPM can do is to start framing discussion of these potential War Barge changes in terms of War Barges as their own, new subsystem in Dust. Conflating War Barges with Planetary Conquest will produce bad, muddled, feedback and in any case is misleading. No matter how you think of it to yourselves, by not making a clear logical distinction between these two distinct subsystems designs in your discussions you're implying an expectation of improvements to PC that are not at all reasonably encapsulated by the introduction of War Barges. Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi Have a pony
Grimmiers 754	Posted - 2014.12.25 02:46:00 - [108] - Quote There's a few things I'd like to see implemented for things to work more smoothly. Expand beyond Molden Heath It's currently to crowded with many corps opting out of pc because the current setup allows donuts to stomp out any chance to compete. Implement a contract system Eve could make better use of dust if there was a contract system. An eve pilot should be able to hire mercs of their choosing to take over a district for resources. Dust mercs should be able to set a price on themselves if they want to ring for money. This game should revolve around a contract system to get every type of player into pc/fw. A sandbox battle that allows for more interesting outcomes. The option to drop installations has been in the game as long as I can remember. Dropping installations like null cannons, turrets, scanners, null cannons, etc would initially be enough to give battles a sandbox feel. Districts could have a bandwidth limit for installation drops and installations should have a module layout. There's a lot of good flushed out gamemodes made by players for pc that would work a lot better than skirmish. Balancing a game-mode where there's one attacking mcc is what the players want even if it's not "fair". Not every battle needs to be large as well, districts should range from defending a small, medium, or large socket with player counts that fit.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5557	Posted - 2014.12.25 03:15:00 - [109] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Timers, timers, timers. Have I mentioned that timers are one of the biggest things holding PC back? I understand you believe that. It doesn't mean you're right. Timers are critical for allowing players accomplishments to mean something, and not requiring the people managing for their corp to have to eat, sleep, and breathe the game 24/7. That being said, some reasonable adjustments to timers are well-warranted, and I heavily advocate making it impossible to squat 50 districts in the 1200 UTC timer. Thor Odinson42 wrote: But one of the biggest complaints from those that have tried PC is the wait around for 30 minutes and not get chosen. A fight or two every other day isn't going to change much. On a given scale it'll still be the best 16 vs the best 16. It won't put any strain on the status quo. I disagree. A lot more corps being able to afford a lot more clone packs regularly means holding districts DOES become a lot more work. There will be a lot more corps in play, and a lot more battles on the schedule. The same 16 people won't be able to be in every match all the time, especially since this system should help reduce alt corp locking tactics as well. We've got nearly two years of evidence saying I'm right. You give people 24 hours notice and something worthwhile to fight for and it'll be the best 32 ISK can buy. Locking is a reaction to getting beaten or to protect yourself from getting stacked timers. In other words a work around for mechanics that lend themselves to small elite groups. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5557	Posted - 2014.12.25 03:19:00 - [110] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Generic commentary on the thread: Very glad this is out here now, I hope everyone has a lot of ideas and feedback on it. I saw a few people saying the barge should be a corp asset rather than a personal one. Some of us on the CPM lean that way as well, your feedback is surely valued on that topic. This is all high level stuff, and there's lots of room for tweaks to the system. And remember that this is an iterative process, so parts that don't work well can be tweaked and adjusted down the line. A few people wanted to know why the CPM didn't openly discuss our own proposal for PC. One of the major reasons for that was because our documents and CCP's documents were extremely similar. Both CCP Rattati and the CPM had an extremely similar view of what the key points were to making Planetary Conquest worthwhile, interesting, and exciting. It's pretty simple. You have a small minority of the playerbase with lots of ISK and SP that are hardened in the ways of PC. You have very little interest in PC from the vast majority of the playerbase. Introducing something that the vets will jump on to make themselves more powerful helps increase participation how? Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5976	Posted - 2014.12.25 03:23:00 - [111] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Generic commentary on the thread: Very glad this is out here now, I hope everyone has a lot of ideas and feedback on it. I saw a few people saying the barge should be a corp asset rather than a personal one. Some of us on the CPM lean that way as well, your feedback is surely valued on that topic. This is all high level stuff, and there's lots of room for tweaks to the system. And remember that this is an iterative process, so parts that don't work well can be tweaked and adjusted down the line. A few people wanted to know why the CPM didn't openly discuss our own proposal for PC. One of the major reasons for that was because our documents and CCP's documents were extremely similar. Both CCP Rattati and the CPM had an extremely similar view of what the key points were to making Planetary Conquest worthwhile, interesting, and exciting. It's pretty simple. You have a small minority of the playerbase with lots of ISK and SP that are hardened in the ways of PC. You have very little interest in PC from the vast majority of the playerbase. Introducing something that the vets will jump on to make themselves more powerful helps increase participation how? By incentivizing people to grow some balls and dive in. sooner or later someone will pop in and kick your butt. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5558	Posted - 2014.12.25 03:32:00 - [112] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: There's a few things I'd like to see implemented for things to work more smoothly. Expand beyond Molden Heath It's currently to crowded with many corps opting out of pc because the current setup allows donuts to stomp out any chance to compete. Implement a contract system Eve could make better use of dust if there was a contract system. An eve pilot should be able to hire mercs of their choosing to take over a district for resources. Dust mercs should be able to set a price on themselves if they want to ring for money. This game should revolve around a contract system to get every type of player into pc/fw. A sandbox battle that allows for more interesting outcomes. The option to drop installations has been in the game as long as I can remember. Dropping installations like null cannons, turrets, scanners, null cannons, etc would initially be enough to give battles a sandbox feel. Districts could have a bandwidth limit for installation drops and installations should have a module layout. There's a lot of good flushed out gamemodes made by players for pc that would work a lot better than skirmish. Balancing a game-mode where there's one attacking mcc is what the players want even if it's not "fair". Not every battle needs to be large as well, districts should range from defending a small, medium, or large socket with player counts that fit. PC is anything but crowded out. I've mentioned hundreds but when it's really humming and the big boys are active it's dozens of players that make things happen. This is not an exaggeration. 32 of the top AE players at their peak is enough to wipe you out. If they had an OH or a TP helping them they could wipe out any organization in a little more than a week. Once you remove a single corporation's districts they are either getting ferried into battles or buying clone packs. Unless they are certain they can beat an A team of one of those corps they aren't likely to attack anybody because the lesser corps will just contact one of the elite corps and repel your attacks. Without timer changes to bring spontaneity this changes nothing. And I'm not talking about everyone waking up and everything is gone. I don't want that either. I'm saying something more in the middle. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5129	Posted - 2014.12.25 03:33:00 - [113] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Introducing something that the vets will jump on to make themselves more powerful helps increase participation how? Warbarges are actually the mechanic that will help newer players get practice, lower investment to get into matches, and help bring the big powers to their knees. If you noticed the description of clone vats, there's an intention to allow war barges to generate clone packs. This will mean a LOT more fights will occur, as the cost to initiating them will be much lower. And with so many additional attacks constantly, corporations will have to think twice about what they can afford to hold. And getting more matches going is the key to getting more players practicing PC strategies. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5129	Posted - 2014.12.25 03:35:00 - [114] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Without timer changes to bring spontaneity this changes nothing. And I'm not talking about everyone waking up and everything is gone. I don't want that either. I'm saying something more in the middle. Timers are critical. Full stop. There's no way players can be expected to reasonably manage having to fight during their work day, because an attack was placed during their previous work day. Molon Labe, being a giant corp in a giant blue donut alliance, can manage that. A lot of groups can't. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5558	Posted - 2014.12.25 03:39:00 - [115] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Generic commentary on the thread: Very glad this is out here now, I hope everyone has a lot of ideas and feedback on it. I saw a few people saying the barge should be a corp asset rather than a personal one. Some of us on the CPM lean that way as well, your feedback is surely valued on that topic. This is all high level stuff, and there's lots of room for tweaks to the system. And remember that this is an iterative process, so parts that don't work well can be tweaked and adjusted down the line. A few people wanted to know why the CPM didn't openly discuss our own proposal for PC. One of the major reasons for that was because our documents and CCP's documents were extremely similar. Both CCP Rattati and the CPM had an extremely similar view of what the key points were to making Planetary Conquest worthwhile, interesting, and exciting. It's pretty simple. You have a small minority of the playerbase with lots of ISK and SP that are hardened in the ways of PC. You have very little interest in PC from the vast majority of the playerbase. Introducing something that the vets will jump on to make themselves more powerful helps increase participation how? By incentivizing people to grow some balls and dive in. sooner or later someone will pop in and kick your butt. You talk to me like I haven't been involved in multiple wars over 1.5+ years. Over the last few months KEQ, FA, and ML has tried to give away districts to get corps involved. Random Gunz, Dead Man's Group, and that's about it have become involved. Adding in something to make the current groups of players more powerful will be WORSE than allowing 80 Mil SP players in the Academy. Anyone with any actual experience in PC that denies this is just simply trolling. You've made multiple jabs at my corp in this thread. I'm not pointing out my fears out of paranoia of what it may or may not mean to ML. I'm pointing them out because I want to see PC as something a majority of the playerbase strives to participate in. Not a few dozen elite players slapping everyone around. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5558	Posted - 2014.12.25 03:42:00 - [116] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Without timer changes to bring spontaneity this changes nothing. And I'm not talking about everyone waking up and everything is gone. I don't want that either. I'm saying something more in the middle. Timers are critical. Full stop. There's no way players can be expected to reasonably manage having to fight during their work day, because an attack was placed during their previous work day. Molon Labe, being a giant corp in a giant blue donut alliance, can manage that. A lot of groups can't. Jesus f'n Christ. I'm not talking about Molon. I'm talking about any group that wants to recruit and grow an organization. You keep the timers the way they are and most of those players leave when they realize they aren't good enough to be chosen. Requiring a corporation to field multiple teams opens the doors for more people to participate out of necessity. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5558	Posted - 2014.12.25 03:43:00 - [117] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Introducing something that the vets will jump on to make themselves more powerful helps increase participation how? Warbarges are actually the mechanic that will help newer players get practice, lower investment to get into matches, and help bring the big powers to their knees. If you noticed the description of clone vats, there's an intention to allow war barges to generate clone packs. This will mean a LOT more fights will occur, as the cost to initiating them will be much lower. And with so many additional attacks constantly, corporations will have to think twice about what they can afford to hold. And getting more matches going is the key to getting more players practicing PC strategies. Lol, I guess we'll see. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5558	Posted - 2014.12.25 03:47:00 - [118] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Without timer changes to bring spontaneity this changes nothing. And I'm not talking about everyone waking up and everything is gone. I don't want that either. I'm saying something more in the middle. Timers are critical. Full stop. There's no way players can be expected to reasonably manage having to fight during their work day, because an attack was placed during their previous work day. Molon Labe, being a giant corp in a giant blue donut alliance, can manage that. A lot of groups can't. And if you'd actually done something with your alliance over the last few months you'd know that this big, blue donut has been trying to give away districts to groups like yours. But obviously you aren't interested. I can only guess due to the current mechanics you are defending. If you can't give away districts HTF is a warbarge generating clones going to make groups like yours interested? Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3329	Posted - 2014.12.25 04:10:00 - [119] - Quote Before entering into any sort of systems design. My one piece of feedback would be: What is the incentive to own a district? You need to answer this, and create a proper risk/reward structure that actually gets people interested in participating before going any further into balance and system design. You could spend months designing a pretty game mode but if no one has a reason to participate its all for naught.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5560	Posted - 2014.12.25 04:29:00 - [120] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Before entering into any sort of systems design. My one piece of feedback would be: What is the incentive to own a district? You need to answer this, and create a proper risk/reward structure that actually gets people interested in participating before going any further into balance and system design. You could spend months designing a pretty game mode but if no one has a reason to participate its all for naught. You are right about that, but I'll argue that finding a way to force corps to reach for their team C and D is vital to introducing more players into PC. If you don't address that it'll just bring back more of the elites and they'll just pistol whip everyone again. Without the ability to lock or work around the mechanics it'll just be the same dudes bitching about being tired of fighting each other every night. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.



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