Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1054
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Posted - 2014.12.24 23:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rat, it's great to have this information. There are, however, two very distinct subsystems you have treated here: Warbarges, and Planetary Conquest. Your language in the post overlaps and intertwines those two systems in an alarming way. At best, War Barges, implemented, have the potential to interact with PC mechanics. The two are separate.
It is mission-critically essential to understand that PC cannot be fixed without a fundamental redesign of its own mechanics. Adding and integrating War Barge mechanics on top of the current PC mechanics cannot fix or redeem PC.
The current Planetary Conquest mechanics are NOT in a state where they can be iterated on. Dev time used iterating on the current mechanics rather than redesigning them IS a waste.
These statements come with the support of nearly two years of history with the current PC. If PC were at all in a place to be iterated on and not redesigned, the community would have been making those suggestions for the last year rather than trying to suggest band-aid patches to stem the bleeding since the current design is nearly unplayable.
If there's some low-grade band-aid work done that integrates War Barges into the current PC mechanics very loosely before the necessary fundamental PC rework, that's reasonable. Anything past that, though, is both wasted time and will encourage you not to abandon the work you've put in when the time comes to redo PC. That will be an even worse decision.
What you have posted are not ideological pillars. They are bullet points on a rough sketch of some implementations. The difference is extremely important; we need to know the design goals driving these changes and be able to comment on them directly.
With this perspective, here's some commentary on your post:
CCP Rattati wrote: Phase Two We want to allow Corporations to be measured on their collective Warbarge Fleets. The Corporation will then be able to invest in power structure/umbrella that either increases the power of each individual Warbarge module or grants brand new bonuses to the Corporation, tentatively called Warbarge Command. Modules will only work while the Corporations have a strong enough membership of real players (no alts), as measured by Loyalty Ranks or be gated in construction by membership, making it necessary to go out and recruit and train new players to get to the upper echelon of power. This may be done through the introduction of Corporation Rank as the defining metric for Corporation eligibility and power.
There needs to be an extremely serious discussion about how alliances fit into this picture. Alliances have been the red-headed stepchild of Dust, and unnecessarily at that. If the game design continues to ignore their existence, then a metric ton of new and more granular roles need to be added to corporation structure to allow for less risky distribution of power. The roles and mechanics we have currently aren't really sufficient to administer a corporation that's active in PC that has more than maybe 1k members without much hardship. More emphatically, though, I would suggest including alliances in the game's design going forward. One of the hardships of being a PC organizer, for instance, is that people very rarely want to leave their corps and alliances might as well not exist according to the mechanics. This is just one instance across a huge span of them where alliances could be integrated with the game but are discounted.
CCP Rattati wrote: The lynchpin to this step is the introduction of the Warbarge Clone Vats Module (name TBD) where Clonepacks can be built with regular intervals, allowing Corporations without Districts to launch relatively risk free attacks on Districts. These attacks should be initiated from a list of Districts, displaying Timers, Clones, Corporation and other useful statistics and not from the Starmap itself. Finally, we are working on a different reward method for Planetary Conquest, primarily based on the simple premis of GÇ£you get what you destroyedGÇ¥. Combined with a minimum Corporation Rank to initiate attacks, we may see the end of district-locking and exploits in 2015. We may also reduce the available Timers and/or set Districts to fixed Timers that canGÇÖt be changed.
All of this except for (maybe?) the clone vats is a direct contradiction of my original suggestion. Making UI changes to accommodate the current, broken PC mechanics as well as iterating on the rewards structure without a fundamental redesign are complete wastes of time. Trying to change a very specific part of the current PC mechanics (timers) without a fundamental redesign is also wasteful. You will not be able to repair current PC with these changes, and I distinctly feel like a properly top-down redesign of PC that has community feedback could easily make these mechanics obsolete. District locking and exploits are a result of the core PC mechanics that need redesigning. It's wishful thinking that they'll be fixed by iterating on a broken foundation.
CCP Rattati wrote: Phase Three All of it.
This phase sounds like it should include the fundamental redesign that I've been discussing. You need to open up this discussion to the community now, before you marry yourself to some implementation that fundamentally won't work. There is not a single group of 5-10 people working anywhere within Dust at the moment that have the capacity to make a good PC implementation by themselves without additional feedback. It would be incredibly ineffective for CCP and the CPM to cook up an elaborate implementation and then only ask for feedback on the numbers from the community. CCPers have never really understood the factors the go into PC, only 3 of the CPM have ever played PC competitively, and only one has done a lot of logistical work in PC.
Thanks for the post, both Rat & CCP Shanghai, and many happy returns.
Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi
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Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1054
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Posted - 2014.12.24 23:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sorry for a bit of a double post, I ran out of characters on the last one.
One of the most helpful things CCP and the CPM can do is to start framing discussion of these potential War Barge changes in terms of War Barges as their own, new subsystem in Dust. Conflating War Barges with Planetary Conquest will produce bad, muddled, feedback and in any case is misleading. No matter how you think of it to yourselves, by not making a clear logical distinction between these two distinct subsystems designs in your discussions you're implying an expectation of improvements to PC that are not at all reasonably encapsulated by the introduction of War Barges.
Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi
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Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1065
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Posted - 2015.01.02 10:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
Posted in a nearby thread, replicated here.
Leither Yiltron wrote:So community members are furiously masturbating collaborating on fundamental PC design. Here's an idea that I came up with that seems to have gone over well.
- Districts no longer hold clones, they hold MCC's. Control of a district is lost when the defender has no more MCC's remaining
- Defenders lose an MCC if they lose a battle on the district
- Attackers require an MCC and a "Clone block" (basically a single unit of an additional resource) to attack
- Attacks happen through a system other than direct clone movement; this is a full rework of part of the logistics subsystem that needs to be discussed
- Clone destruction is no longer the primary payoff determiner; this involves a full rework of the rewards subsystem that needs to be fleshed out and discussed
- In-game clone count for both teams is set at a reasonably high default. 150-180+ has been on the table for discussion.
The quick list of reasons:
- Simplification of attacking, defending, and attrition - The granularity of clone movements is an over complication that doesn't add much tactical value. Attrition rates are crazy hard-to-intuit calculations, and again don't add much tactical value. The new system is much simpler: You can attack a district, or you can't. You have defenses left on a district, or you don't.
- Removal of "unwinnable" games - Gameplay value is detracted when one team or another has to play a match with a critically low number of clones under the current system
- Separation of battle win-conditions and sovereignty/logistics in general. The intertwining of these systems makes balance a lot harder.
This theme of degranularization of PC resources is extensible, and should be applied throughout the redesign wherever possible. Complication for the sake of complication isn't necessarily more "tactical" or "strategic", and comes with its own share of pitfalls.
Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi
Have a pony
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