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My 3 week gameplay review.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Guns for Glory Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2014.12.11 13:59:00 - [1] - Quote I came into dust thinking it was like battlefield but when I played my first game it got better! It brought back my memories of MAG! (R.I.P.) so I continued playing and loved it until.....it took me out of the training mission. Then I was thrown in with players that have 6 months plus put into the game. At first I thought I just wasn't used to the game and the aiming so I kept my chin up and pushed on. Now I am 3 weeks in and I know the maps and my aiming is tighter but ow I'm putting a rail rifle clip into an enemy's back to only have them 3 shot me. Pretty unbalanced if you ask me. Plenty of good mmo fps have a skill system but even a new player can do some damage and have fun. Oh and the constant spawn killing is rather annoying. There should be away to play with players only in my range of sp. in general the game has good concepts and fun gameplay but how very unbalanced it is, it realy breaks the game for new players. I realy really want to love this game but I just can't find a reason too. I'm not into wasting 6 months to get enough sp to be able to have some fun. Veterans I understands why you play this game....new players you should just turn around before your ahead unless you have months to use and don't mind gettin slapped around most of your gynnan
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3325	Posted - 2014.12.11 14:02:00 - [2] - Quote This is why tiers must die. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet". My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
Wilhelm Klingspor DUST University Ivy League 472	Posted - 2014.12.11 14:04:00 - [3] - Quote Yeah Dust is about as tender to new players as French kissing a wolverine. Also, walls of text hurt my eyeballs Also, have a like, it helps GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ DON'T PANIC GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ
Edau Skir2 duna corp 54	Posted - 2014.12.11 14:05:00 - [4] - Quote I'm 5 weeks old, just broke the 3.3mil sp mark, and have 2084 kills to my name, with about 500 less deaths. Trust me buddy, stick at it. It's all the finer nuances that get you, Rails are horrible against armor, and even more so if you're putting it into the back of a hybrid-resistant proto sentinel. It gets addictive. Oh so addictive.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5506	Posted - 2014.12.11 14:12:00 - [5] - Quote Welcome to Dust 514, OP. The first few weeks of playing Dust will be punishing, unfortunately, but keep at it. The best advice I can give to a new player is to join an new player friendly corp like Immortal Guides or Dust Uni then squad up as much as possible. My advice to you, playa...
Atiim Titans of Phoenix 14288	Posted - 2014.12.11 14:17:00 - [6] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: I'm 5 weeks old, just broke the 3.3mil sp mark, and have 2084 kills to my name, with about 500 less deaths. Trust me buddy, stick at it. It's all the finer nuances that get you, Rails are horrible against armor, and even more so if you're putting it into the back of a hybrid-resistant proto sentinel. It gets addictive. Oh so addictive. Rail Rifles are stronger against Amor while weaker against Shields. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Kash Tellan Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 53	Posted - 2014.12.11 14:21:00 - [7] - Quote Obligatory HTFU post. meh
Ku Shala The Generals 1049	Posted - 2014.12.11 14:51:00 - [8] - Quote the skill system should give recommendations to new players by highlighting core skills crucial to new player development. academy should be an open option until you have 5 million or more skill points. but who wants new players to keep playing right? *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist *Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0
WARxion ForDUST G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 169	Posted - 2014.12.11 14:52:00 - [9] - Quote Thanks for your review, welcome in New Eden. If you check out the Developer Roadmap you can see they are implementing a Tier Filter, if everything goes well (it won't, it never does) they can deploy it in early spring. But please keep in mind, players who played this game since beta earned their stuff through fires and flames so it's pretty ok IMO to wreck a few days old newbies. HTFU Yes, I'm that desperate...
Edau Skir2 duna corp 56	Posted - 2014.12.11 14:55:00 - [10] - Quote Atiim wrote: Edau Skir2 wrote: I'm 5 weeks old, just broke the 3.3mil sp mark, and have 2084 kills to my name, with about 500 less deaths. Trust me buddy, stick at it. It's all the finer nuances that get you, Rails are horrible against armor, and even more so if you're putting it into the back of a hybrid-resistant proto sentinel. It gets addictive. Oh so addictive. Rail Rifles are stronger against Amor while weaker against Shields. Scratch that, meant Assault Rifles.

SILENT GIANT FATHERS-AND-SONS 211	Posted - 2014.12.11 14:59:00 - [11] - Quote Honestly I like the fact that some players have way more sp, hp, higher damage, etc. Instead of a one on one showdown, it forces you to come up w a tactic for taking down a stronger enemy. Think of it like a boss n.p.c, where you have to widdle their health down while trying to stay alive. Use team work to take down stronger enemies. It makes for a lot more depth. If everyone stood on equal grounds it would get old quick. Be like any other BF or COD, where anyone can be a one man army. Some of the nuances Dust has are a little strange to adapt to in comparison to what the other shooters offer, but you'll learn that it makes for a game unlike any other. If at 5 weeks in you were already a bad ass and could go around slaying the day away, how much fun would that be?Ok, ig uess that is fun, but You would have beaten the game and got bored and moved on to something else. Dust is so complex and takes so long to master, it keeps you working toward goals for the next few years. It might be hard for the new player, but if you take the time to learn the ins and outs, your immortal life as a clone mercenary will hopefully be a very long one, with so much to learn and experience. Even when you do achieve a decent sp, suit, weapons. 2 experienced players in starter fits with low sp alt characters still have the ability to take you down through tactics. This game is less about being rambo and more about using your head, to properly use all tools avail to overcome the enemy. The new player exp is harsh, but I'm the type of person who likes the challenge. Take it slow and enjoy your stay. Soon enough you'll find yourself addicted like the rest of us.
Summa Militum Hidd3n Dragon 112	Posted - 2014.12.11 15:48:00 - [12] - Quote Guns for Glory wrote: I came into dust thinking it was like battlefield but when I played my first game it got better! It brought back my memories of MAG! (R.I.P.) so I continued playing and loved it until.....it took me out of the training mission. Then I was thrown in with players that have 6 months plus put into the game. At first I thought I just wasn't used to the game and the aiming so I kept my chin up and pushed on. Now I am 3 weeks in and I know the maps and my aiming is tighter but ow I'm putting a rail rifle clip into an enemy's back to only have them 3 shot me. Pretty unbalanced if you ask me. Plenty of good mmo fps have a skill system but even a new player can do some damage and have fun. Oh and the constant spawn killing is rather annoying. There should be away to play with players only in my range of sp. in general the game has good concepts and fun gameplay but how very unbalanced it is, it realy breaks the game for new players. I realy really want to love this game but I just can't find a reason too. I'm not into wasting 6 months to get enough sp to be able to have some fun. Veterans I understands why you play this game....new players you should just turn around before your ahead unless you have months to use and don't mind gettin slapped around most of your gynnan I have been playing this game for 7 months and when I started I too got the ** kicked out of me; I also jumped straight into Public Matches because I wasn't aware of a training option so that might have had something to do with me getting beat so badly. What I did was I used the ass-whippin I kept receiving as a challenge to overcome. I strategized my gameplay and I managed my skill point distribution very carefully (I only have 65,000 mismanaged SP). I understand the grind in this game can suck sometimes so I would like to give you some tips. First, upgrade your armor plating or shield (whichever your preference). You are going to want to be able to stay alive long enough to get a feel of how to engage in combat with the different types of players you will see in this game. Once you get a true feel of how to engage all the different types of players you will see then you will start to get the kills. Second, always stick with your teammates. It did not take me more than my first two or three matches to realize that as a noob I shouldn't be running around like a lone-wolf. Third, to help avoid getting spawn killed I suggest you don't hastily spawn somewhere. When I choose a spawn point I look to see if other teammates are spawning there as well. If I see a teammates icon pop up on the map I will wait a few seconds to see if that icon disappears; if it does I know that is a spawn trap and I move on. Fourth, even though this is just a game the challenges go beyond the game. View every difficult situation not as an impossibility but as an opportunity. Fifth, a lot of players in this game have become dependent on playing with a squad to win. Squads have become peoples crutch in this game. I suggest you learn to exploit that. (unless you are up against Kaizuka Sniper; you are pretty much ** against him). Try sticking with the challenge of this game a little longer. Think of yourself right now as an intern working your way up to bigger and better things. Oh and one more thing. Do not waste money on the majority of the bullshit trash they have in the market place. Do not waste actual money buying weapons or dropsuit fittings or any of that **. If you are going to spend money spend it on Passive Boosters so you can gain skill points faster for you to invest in all the different skills the game offers for you to level up.
Summa Militum Hidd3n Dragon 112	Posted - 2014.12.11 15:55:00 - [13] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: the skill system should give recommendations to new players by highlighting core skills crucial to new player development. academy should be an open option until you have 5 million or more skill points. but who wants new players to keep playing right? I would not like it if the game gave recommendations on core skills. People need to learn to identify things like that on their own; inside and outside of the game. If you guide a persons hand too much they are going to end up being a dumbass. The first two days I was playing this game I probably spent more time looking through and reading everything within the skill tree than I actually spent playing the game. I think it is important for people to gain some management skills and the skill tree is a great way to do that.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 234	Posted - 2014.12.11 16:32:00 - [14] - Quote Guns for Glory wrote: I came into dust thinking it was like battlefield but when I played my first game it got better! It brought back my memories of MAG! (R.I.P.) so I continued playing and loved it until.....it took me out of the training mission. Then I was thrown in with players that have 6 months plus put into the game. At first I thought I just wasn't used to the game and the aiming so I kept my chin up and pushed on. Now I am 3 weeks in and I know the maps and my aiming is tighter but ow I'm putting a rail rifle clip into an enemy's back to only have them 3 shot me. Pretty unbalanced if you ask me. Plenty of good mmo fps have a skill system but even a new player can do some damage and have fun. Oh and the constant spawn killing is rather annoying. There should be away to play with players only in my range of sp. in general the game has good concepts and fun gameplay but how very unbalanced it is, it realy breaks the game for new players. I realy really want to love this game but I just can't find a reason too. I'm not into wasting 6 months to get enough sp to be able to have some fun. Veterans I understands why you play this game....new players you should just turn around before your ahead unless you have months to use and don't mind gettin slapped around most of your gynnan Its almost like there should be a Standard tech only bracket in the game so that new people arent forcibly bent over to get farmed by the 3 year protostomp vets. But nah **** new people, growing the game's player base isnt important!
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6558	Posted - 2014.12.11 16:43:00 - [15] - Quote Take a break and let your passive SP accrue so your character is in a better position when you come back. Keep track of the game on the forums, because there may be some changes for the NPE, or other changes that may help you out. Lastly, if you do continue playing, make sure you put your SP into Core skills like shields, armor, engineering etc that will affect all suits and all roles and make consider hooking up with Dust University or any corp in the Learning Coalition. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5425	Posted - 2014.12.11 17:16:00 - [16] - Quote It's all about squading up. You could take the advice of those above to take a break and let your SP accrue, but in reality squading up and learning from those with experience and covering your back is the way to go. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5426	Posted - 2014.12.11 17:19:00 - [17] - Quote Add the channel: xmlx You should be able to get in a squad there. I'm not sure if you know, but typing LFS in a channel is the common method to get an invitation. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Vell0cet Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2662	Posted - 2014.12.11 17:31:00 - [18] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: This is why tiers must die. I completely disagree. Its why we need a second-tier optional academy mode for people under 5 mill SP, it's not the gear, it's map knowledge, teamwork, tactics, knowledge of game mechanics, etc. All of it gives the vet a massive advantage over the new player. The problem isn't the differences in gear (which makes the game unique and interesting via risk/reward) its that new players are being pushed into the greater player base before they've had a chance to get the skills, knowledge, experience, social connections, team tactics etc. Where they can actually be competitive. Best PvE idea ever!
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 236	Posted - 2014.12.11 18:29:00 - [19] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: This is why tiers must die. I completely disagree. Its why we need a second-tier optional academy mode for people under 5 mill SP, it's not the gear, it's map knowledge, teamwork, tactics, knowledge of game mechanics, etc. All of it gives the vet a massive advantage over the new player. The problem isn't the differences in gear (which makes the game unique and interesting via risk/reward) its that new players are being pushed into the greater player base before they've had a chance to get the skills, knowledge, experience, social connections, team tactics etc. Where they can actually be competitive. So people being thrown into a game with other people who have 2-3x their hp pool, 20%+ more damage on their weapons, better regen, and better and more equipment has no affect on their ability to win? Yes skills, knowledge, etc make a big difference, but pretending like the difference between a proto suit and a standard or starter fit is insignificant is just asinine.
Meeko Fent True Illuminate 2273	Posted - 2014.12.11 23:31:00 - [20] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: This is why tiers must die. I completely disagree. Its why we need a second-tier optional academy mode for people under 5 mill SP, it's not the gear, it's map knowledge, teamwork, tactics, knowledge of game mechanics, etc. All of it gives the vet a massive advantage over the new player. The problem isn't the differences in gear (which makes the game unique and interesting via risk/reward) its that new players are being pushed into the greater player base before they've had a chance to get the skills, knowledge, experience, social connections, team tactics etc. Where they can actually be competitive. So people being thrown into a game with other people who have 2-3x their hp pool, 20%+ more damage on their weapons, better regen, and better and more equipment has no affect on their ability to win? Yes skills, knowledge, etc make a big difference, but pretending like the difference between a proto suit and a standard or starter fit is insignificant is just asinine. Si Se+¦or. Good players will shine through the gear differences, and bad ones will dull out. But the simple fact of the game is that the stats are stacked in favor of the vets. They have access to the superior gear, the bonuses that go with it, the means to field them (usually), and the core skills. Even EVE , a MMO, has new players balanced better to old. Only the bonuses and T2 divide the player in EVE. And even then, a good new player can run tackle just as good as an old. What can a new player do that a vet with proto gear not do better. Protoo gear is better in every way then lower tier equipment. There's no reason to not use it if you can afford it. I am the bluedot. And I will rise again.

Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2382	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:11:00 - [21] - Quote This guy posts this: Spectral Clone wrote: This is why tiers must die. and then this guy posts this: Edau Skir2 wrote: I'm 5 weeks old, just broke the 3.3mil sp mark, and have 2084 kills to my name, with about 500 less deaths. Trust me buddy, stick at it. It's all the finer nuances that get you, Rails are horrible against armor, and even more so if you're putting it into the back of a hybrid-resistant proto sentinel. It gets addictive. Oh so addictive. The first statement is an opinion regarding the game design of DUST, the second is an experience based on playing DUST. The second statement is standing on much firmer ground than the first, imo. PSN: RationalSpark

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 13400	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:15:00 - [22] - Quote We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11683	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:18:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Where do these numbers (100, 200) come from exactly? Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Brotherband SHAKING BABIES FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 25	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:20:00 - [24] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Where do these numbers (100, 200) come from exactly? The meta level of equipment I believe. I do not expect us to live through this fight. My only request is that you fight with honor and die with dignity.
Meeko Fent True Illuminate 2278	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:22:00 - [25] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: This guy posts this: Spectral Clone wrote: This is why tiers must die. and then this guy posts this: Edau Skir2 wrote: I'm 5 weeks old, just broke the 3.3mil sp mark, and have 2084 kills to my name, with about 500 less deaths. Trust me buddy, stick at it. It's all the finer nuances that get you, Rails are horrible against armor, and even more so if you're putting it into the back of a hybrid-resistant proto sentinel. It gets addictive. Oh so addictive. The first statement is an opinion regarding the game design of DUST, the second is an experience based on playing DUST. The second statement is standing on much firmer ground than the first, imo. Excepting that anybody can come and post whatever with an alt, theoretically, yes, you are correct in that statement I am the bluedot. And I will rise again.
Meeko Fent True Illuminate 2278	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:23:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Whenever you can, please do this! PLEASE!! I am the bluedot. And I will rise again.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11685	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:23:00 - [27] - Quote Brotherband wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Where do these numbers (100, 200) come from exactly? The meta level of equipment I believe. Would have guessed so at first, but I don't think the metalevels of a fitting's items add up that high. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 257	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:26:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards is this what metalevel lockout is going to be? Jupiter's cock! It's a Mark VI... And we've got it by the ass!
Meeko Fent True Illuminate 2278	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:27:00 - [29] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Brotherband wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Where do these numbers (100, 200) come from exactly? The meta level of equipment I believe. Would have guessed so at first, but I don't think the metalevels of a fitting's items add up that high. Yeah... Maybe they'll adjust it. I am the bluedot. And I will rise again.
voidfaction Nos Nothi 664	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:31:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards This is by far my most wanted thing in dust. Will be nice to see how bad I suck vs same meta players as I play in STD dropsuits 99% of the time. I can't wait and a BIG THANK YOU to you and the other Devs working on this.


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 13406	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:37:00 - [31] - Quote Obviously 100 and 200 are numbers out of thin air "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1106	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:44:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I can see this happening: Tier 1 - Logistics are locked out because the amount of modules and equipment do not allow them to enter this arena. Tier 2 - Basic and Subpar fittings on Logistics players allowed here. Slayers steamroll over them and are rare if they enter or are even alive in this tier. Tier 3 - Logistics players have no worries of being locked out of this mode. Please allow Logistics players to somehow operate on a lower meta level without allowing them to become "Slayer Logis". CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou CIO ("Proto Forum Warrior") Learning Coalition & RTG
Michael Arck 6084	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:46:00 - [33] - Quote Ha! Even this guys knows about the RR and he's new! Man, they nerfed the RR due to community general aggravation with the RR, so I would suggest trying a different weapon. I heard the SCR works wonders. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7413	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:47:00 - [34] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I can see this happening: Tier 1 - Logistics are locked out because the amount of modules and equipment do not allow them to enter this arena. Tier 2 - Basic and Subpar fittings on Logistics players allowed here. Slayers steamroll over them and are rare if they enter or are even alive in this tier. Tier 3 - Logistics players have no worries of being locked out of this mode. Please allow Logistics players to somehow operate on a lower meta level without allowing them to become "Slayer Logis". Fairly interesting assertion. Perhaps a soft-exemption for Equipment? Saaay, 50% reduction in meta-level (assumed)? Long-Term Roadmap More Hard Questions
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7413	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:48:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Alternatively, what's your thoughts on a proposal like this? Long-Term Roadmap More Hard Questions
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 257	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:55:00 - [36] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Kaze Eyrou wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I can see this happening: Tier 1 - Logistics are locked out because the amount of modules and equipment do not allow them to enter this arena. Tier 2 - Basic and Subpar fittings on Logistics players allowed here. Slayers steamroll over them and are rare if they enter or are even alive in this tier. Tier 3 - Logistics players have no worries of being locked out of this mode. Please allow Logistics players to somehow operate on a lower meta level without allowing them to become "Slayer Logis". Fairly interesting assertion. Perhaps a soft-exemption for Equipment? Saaay, 50% reduction in meta-level (assumed)? whats more likely to happen is tier 1 and 2 being ghost towns, meaning business as usual in tier 3 with higher payouts than what we have now, which would defeat the entire purpose of 3 tiers Jupiter's cock! It's a Mark VI... And we've got it by the ass!
X-eon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 102	Posted - 2014.12.12 03:08:00 - [37] - Quote My question is how would fittings be handled? Would I have to delete all my fittings and make then fit the lower meta or would I have to choose a specific amount of suits before I go in? Looking for LAV Pilots and Gunners. Join in game chat channel: LAV Research
Vell0cet OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2663	Posted - 2014.12.12 04:05:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. Best PvE idea ever!
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1408	Posted - 2014.12.12 04:14:00 - [39] - Quote OP reeks of a bitter vet alt, 7/10 for the amount of responses. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2879	Posted - 2014.12.12 04:25:00 - [40] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: I'm 5 weeks old, just broke the 3.3mil sp mark, and have 2084 kills to my name, with about 500 less deaths. Trust me buddy, stick at it. It's all the finer nuances that get you, Rails are horrible against armor, and even more so if you're putting it into the back of a hybrid-resistant proto sentinel. It gets addictive. Oh so addictive. Oh god why the hell are you part of Duna corp, they have an insane tax rate, don't they? "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire

Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1213	Posted - 2014.12.12 04:38:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Obviously 100 and 200 are numbers out of thin air Why not make it easy on yourself and just make the game modes restricted to STD, ADV, and Proto so that you get the intended effect of meta level balanced game modes without gimping logistics players who automatically would have super sub-standard fits. Also you would have to find a meta level system that works with vehicles too, which would be very delicate trying to create a balanced system between tanks, LAVs and dropships when they all have such varying fitting ideologies while using the same modules. Just limit everything to STD, ADV, and Proto and bypass all of that. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
voidfaction Nos Nothi 664	Posted - 2014.12.12 04:49:00 - [42] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Obviously 100 and 200 are numbers out of thin air I would hope so as my main STD fitting has a total meta of 20
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 845	Posted - 2014.12.12 06:42:00 - [43] - Quote This game is like survival of the fittest. Who ever makes it the first day or week you pretty much passed the first hurdle. At least that's how i felt and then you start getting better. When i first played dust i deleted the game out of frustration and then re installed it again to give it another try. So i kinda died but revived like Jesus it was cray. AE.
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 15505	Posted - 2014.12.12 07:00:00 - [44] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. I miss OSG There is so much right in this in this post, Flight Academy coming soon(tm) to my YouTube WoD 514
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 15506	Posted - 2014.12.12 07:10:00 - [45] - Quote On second thought though, you can still use garbage gear in tier 3, so you may get facerolled but youll get paid well for it. Different tiers are still being used, there just needs to be more incentive to win, so that you feel it more, win or lose. Flight Academy coming soon(tm) to my YouTube WoD 514
Edau Skir2 duna corp 76	Posted - 2014.12.12 08:07:00 - [46] - Quote If you want to balance the game so you don't get vets against new players, then make matchmaking lobbies based on sp levels, e.g. Matches with players who have under 1.5mil, and then only players who have 1.5mil to 3mil, and so on. Won't need to be too many, I'm over 3 mil now, and I hold my own against the proto stomp.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3350	Posted - 2014.12.12 08:23:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards And after that, you will do this? EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet". My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3350	Posted - 2014.12.12 08:24:00 - [48] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: This game is like survival of the fittest. Who ever makes it the first day or week you pretty much passed the first hurdle. At least that's how i felt and then you start getting better. When i first played dust i deleted the game out of frustration and then re installed it again to give it another try. So i kinda died but revived like Jesus it was cray. Mothafuckin' cray fish. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet". My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 1035	Posted - 2014.12.12 08:51:00 - [49] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. I miss OSG There is so much right in this in this post, Tend to agree, but not sure the optional academy mode option should be a replacement for this one. All that really does is extend academy...though it might help the NPE. Is there some solution to the initial idea? If KDR is so precious to some, would it be as precious if a stat on the meta-level difference of the suits were also listed? For example, if I'm a KDR-***** and love my 6 KDR, would my approach change if a "Hard Target" stat of 0.6 was against my name as well? This would mean I'm stomping in some way shape or form. Overall we're also at the problem of are there enough players playing to split the battles like this? Whether there are or not, if the OP's experience is common, we've a catch-22 problem. Maybe we should stop worrying about critical mass in the player base preventing some of these ideas. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
nicholas73 Glitched Connection 317	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:07:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Now just give us some more fitting space and its gonna be perfect. Proud member of Glitched Connection "Only idiots start a fight they can't win" - Sora (No Game No Life)

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1580	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:07:00 - [51] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Overall we're also at the problem of are there enough players playing to split the battles like this? Whether there are or not, if the OP's experience is common, we've a catch-22 problem. Maybe we should stop worrying about critical mass in the player base preventing some of these ideas. THIS is the biggest concern. Otherwise this tiered matchmaking would be quite doable and a good thing. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3354	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:20:00 - [52] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: This is why tiers must die. I completely disagree. Its why we need a second-tier optional academy mode for people under 5 mill SP, it's not the gear, it's map knowledge, teamwork, tactics, knowledge of game mechanics, etc. All of it gives the vet a massive advantage over the new player. The problem isn't the differences in gear (which makes the game unique and interesting via risk/reward) its that new players are being pushed into the greater player base before they've had a chance to get the skills, knowledge, experience, social connections, team tactics etc. Where they can actually be competitive. CCP should aim for elegant solutions. Meta level locking is one. The other elegant solution is tiericide, just like I propose it. It will make new players more useful from the get go. If you dont agree that SP is giving a huge advantage (due to dropsuit slots increasing, increased CPU/PG), I have two questions for you: 1. Do you even Dust? 2. Do you even lift? EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet". My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
SoTa PoP Titans of Phoenix 5269	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:31:00 - [53] - Quote This is so full of BS I can't believe people are buying it. Most of the 'vets' don't even use proto in pubs - they use BPO STD gear. It hardly costs ANY SP AT ALL to get. The problem is he has no idea how to allocate his SP so he ends up with some toon that isn't prepared for what's coming. Acedemy isn't training people to do anything. It needs to be expanded With options to play with the 'big boys' to allow players with under 5mil to continue to play there. That gives them breathing room to explore and learn on there own since CCP refuse to teach them. And when they want to go test themselves with the rest of us - they can. And when it turns bad then can go running back to the safety of acdemy. This means, ofc, you'll have to rethink a few things - but you'll find this system a lot more friendly to our environment then this TERRIBLE idea of brackets. It's bad enough you ruined part of this game by allowing respecs. We get it - this game isn't EvE or tied to it anymore, so it's not a part of the 'harsh environment where choices matter' But at least keep some aspects of the real game we wanted around. Shesh. Also: Not enough players. lol n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1580	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:38:00 - [54] - Quote Also a smaller issue, this (link) needs to be implemented unless you want playerbase to never try differents modes - or slash their wrists. Killface Hunt Posted about fitting limits and folders People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 296	Posted - 2014.12.12 10:17:00 - [55] - Quote Guns for Glory wrote: I came into dust thinking it was like battlefield but when I played my first game it got better! It brought back my memories of MAG! (R.I.P.) so I continued playing and loved it until.....it took me out of the training mission. Then I was thrown in with players that have 6 months plus put into the game. At first I thought I just wasn't used to the game and the aiming so I kept my chin up and pushed on. Now I am 3 weeks in and I know the maps and my aiming is tighter but ow I'm putting a rail rifle clip into an enemy's back to only have them 3 shot me. Pretty unbalanced if you ask me. Plenty of good mmo fps have a skill system but even a new player can do some damage and have fun. Oh and the constant spawn killing is rather annoying. There should be away to play with players only in my range of sp. in general the game has good concepts and fun gameplay but how very unbalanced it is, it realy breaks the game for new players. I realy really want to love this game but I just can't find a reason too. I'm not into wasting 6 months to get enough sp to be able to have some fun. Veterans I understands why you play this game....new players you should just turn around before your ahead unless you have months to use and don't mind gettin slapped around most of your gynnan This reads remarkably like my first forum postings :D Yeah, seems its still like this The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5724	Posted - 2014.12.12 11:05:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Obviously 100 and 200 are numbers out of thin air I want into the FFA meta unlocked matches please. Tens of millions of SP... nothing but Quafe. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 387	Posted - 2014.12.12 11:10:00 - [57] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Whenever you can, please do this! PLEASE!! So this is like deadspace in Eve ,You get there from a acceleration Gate

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 13472	Posted - 2014.12.12 13:39:00 - [58] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. SP is absolutely not a measure of "fps skill". The vets will be on equal ground in STD gear. Then there is no "proto" stomping. And an equal amount of good players on each side. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

RayRay James Titans of Phoenix 807	Posted - 2014.12.12 13:41:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: SP is absolutely not a measure of "fps skill". The vets will be on equal ground in STD gear. Then there is no "proto" stomping. And an equal amount of good players on each side. I'm living proof of that statement
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5581	Posted - 2014.12.12 13:53:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Why even have tiers at all? Just tiericide every dropsuit and be done with it. Leave modules and weapons in their current state, make every dropsuit the proto version of itself. Less need for a tiered system with this in place. My advice to you, playa...

GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 76	Posted - 2014.12.12 13:54:00 - [61] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Take a break and let your passive SP accrue so your character is in a better position when you come back. Keep track of the game on the forums, because there may be some changes for the NPE, or other changes that may help you out. Lastly, if you do continue playing, make sure you put your SP into Core skills like shields, armor, engineering etc that will affect all suits and all roles and make consider hooking up with Dust University or any corp in the Learning Coalition. This is solid advive. Your core skills are much more important than chasing proto. Learning to play in ADV gear will lead to mastering DUST514. HE WHO SEES FIRST-WINS, you can't coach speed, and get your **** back online, are my 3 pieces of advice to my corpmates-and ret. control as well. peace out GL/HF/GH
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 639	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:01:00 - [62] - Quote Guns for Glory wrote: I came into dust thinking it was like battlefield but when I played my first game it got better! It brought back my memories of MAG! (R.I.P.) so I continued playing and loved it until.....it took me out of the training mission. Then I was thrown in with players that have 6 months plus put into the game. At first I thought I just wasn't used to the game and the aiming so I kept my chin up and pushed on. Now I am 3 weeks in and I know the maps and my aiming is tighter but ow I'm putting a rail rifle clip into an enemy's back to only have them 3 shot me. Pretty unbalanced if you ask me. Plenty of good mmo fps have a skill system but even a new player can do some damage and have fun. Oh and the constant spawn killing is rather annoying. There should be away to play with players only in my range of sp. in general the game has good concepts and fun gameplay but how very unbalanced it is, it realy breaks the game for new players. I realy really want to love this game but I just can't find a reason too. I'm not into wasting 6 months to get enough sp to be able to have some fun. Veterans I understands why you play this game....new players you should just turn around before your ahead unless you have months to use and don't mind gettin slapped around most of your gynnan Honestly just ditch the game. Ive got 2 years player experience on this game and i stopped playing it cause its just gotten way to tedious and more of a grindfest. My advice is get yourself a proper game cause if you spend too much time on this here you will spend more money then on a brand new AAA game (~60Gé¼). Stay away from it, delete the game from your HDD and forget the developers name. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Meeko Fent True Illuminate 2285	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:14:00 - [63] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Why even have tiers at all? Just tiericide every dropsuit and be done with it. Leave modules and weapons in their current state, make every dropsuit the proto version of itself. Less need for a tiered system with this in place. Good point. I personally would keep ADV as Militia gear, and also cide weapons. But then the vets will lose what they have worked so hard to get... I am the bluedot. And I will rise again.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1380	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:18:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. SP is absolutely not a measure of "fps skill". The vets will be on equal ground in STD gear. Then there is no "proto" stomping. And an equal amount of good players on each side. Just a thought, with only 8 or 9 mil SP and good planning you can be pretty well maxed out for any role but Logi. I like the idea of offering some different options for new players, however, whatever option you may go with I really do want to sustain the feeling of progression and long term skill building. Recommendation on you match levels would be to only have two levels though. The first tier scales so that you can run up to APEX suits (I.e. Proto suit with STD modules/weapons). With a well fitted STD suit and good skills you can be pretty effective. For the next tier then have anything goes. After the system has been out for a bit assess if you need a middle ground level. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4914	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:33:00 - [65] - Quote I'd almost say we only need 2 tiers period. 3 might be splitting up the player base a little too much. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
zzZaXxx The Exemplars 696	Posted - 2014.12.12 14:57:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I like it and think it's necessary but I think two tiers is better. Tier 1 would never have to see proto. That's enough. We don't want to thin the pool for matches too much. And that would mean more diversity of suits. Start with two tiers. And how would it work with squads?
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 87	Posted - 2014.12.12 15:02:00 - [67] - Quote Background: I currently have around 13M skillpoints and have been playing daily for a little over 5 months. I am in a stable, mid-sized growing corp, but I squad with players outside my corp at least as often. I suppose I have made about 1M skillpoint GÇ£mistakesGÇ¥ , and am happy that respec is an option though I have elected not to use it. I am not convinced that this is as serious of a problem as some say. Do I sometimes get GÇ£stompedGÇ¥ in a match where the reds have a squad or two of coordinated proto-running players? Absolutely. I dread those matches. But I have learned to identify them and switch to an ISK-conserving mode of survival (some folks ditch the match, but I donGÇÖt). The life of a mercenary means the odds aren't always even . Occasionally I have been surprised to see my team making a comeback, or I spot a flaw in the stomper tactics, and I gear back up. On rare occasions, we have pulled out a surprising win. It is those rare occasions I am MOST proud of. They motivate me in future battles not to gear-down as quickly. It is THOSE battles I like to brag about . Even more so than the battles that seemed to be evenly matched all the way through! As a new-ish player, it gave me a visible, tangible view of players and gear that I could aspire to. Actually SEEING a shotgunner physically leap over me and shoot me in the back, or watching a heavy sprint faster than his Logi , made me want to get more skillpoints and try those things myself. Call it gear envy, hero worship, whatever, but without seeing these things in person, so to speak, itGÇÖs all just disorganized numbers and incomprehensible jargon buried in a convoluted menu system . Without randomized oponents, the game would seem more like a gentlemanly aiming/shooting contest where everyone was assigned the same brand of gun. If all battles were more GÇ£equalizedGÇ¥ I wouldnGÇÖt be as proud about any particular victory. I may not have as many lows, but also my highs wouldnGÇÖt be as high. So I think there is some game value in battles where there is randomness in players having different GÇ£tiersGÇ¥ of gear and skillpoint-enabled options. I recognize this as gamblerGÇÖs psychology, which I typically eschew. I also recognize this places me in the distinct minority opinion, particularly for one who never runs proto suits in pubs. This is just my experience and personal opinion. DonGÇÖt hate me Spectral. PS. IMO PCs serve as the all-gear-and-skillpoint-equivalent contests of skill. They can be improved, but what can't? FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 221	Posted - 2014.12.12 15:10:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards 1. Tier 1 - High sec, Tier 2 - Low sec, Tier 3- Null sec
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 108	Posted - 2014.12.12 15:30:00 - [69] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: the skill system should give recommendations to new players by highlighting core skills crucial to new player development. academy should be an open option until you have 5 million or more skill points. but who wants new players to keep playing right? it should but you do have vets who make a new alt wait about a month while logging in and get about 3.5-4 million sp then go on a killing spree in it.
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 466	Posted - 2014.12.12 15:39:00 - [70] - Quote SILENT GIANT wrote: Honestly I like the fact that some players have way more sp, hp, higher damage, etc. Instead of a one on one showdown, it forces you to come up w a tactic for taking down a stronger enemy. Think of it like a boss n.p.c, where you have to widdle their health down while trying to stay alive. Use team work to take down stronger enemies. It makes for a lot more depth. If everyone stood on equal grounds it would get old quick. Be like any other BF or COD, where anyone can be a one man army. Some of the nuances Dust has are a little strange to adapt to in comparison to what the other shooters offer, but you'll learn that it makes for a game unlike any other. If at 5 weeks in you were already a bad ass and could go around slaying the day away, how much fun would that be?Ok, ig uess that is fun, but You would have beaten the game and got bored and moved on to something else. Dust is so complex and takes so long to master, it keeps you working toward goals for the next few years. It might be hard for the new player, but if you take the time to learn the ins and outs, your immortal life as a clone mercenary will hopefully be a very long one, with so much to learn and experience. Even when you do achieve a decent sp, suit, weapons. 2 experienced players in starter fits with low sp alt characters still have the ability to take you down through tactics. This game is less about being rambo and more about using your head, to properly use all tools avail to overcome the enemy. The new player exp is harsh, but I'm the type of person who likes the challenge. Take it slow and enjoy your stay. Soon enough you'll find yourself addicted like the rest of us. best post and descripton of dust I have seen for a loooooooooooooooooooooooong fckn time. 1 *Elite Gallenten Soldier*

Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 248	Posted - 2014.12.12 15:42:00 - [71] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. Gear differences are a big part of why new players cant compete. Stop acting like running in a squad is some kind of magical skill multiplier.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 248	Posted - 2014.12.12 15:46:00 - [72] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. I miss OSG There is so much right in this in this post, Except that its not right. There's a huge difference between losing a fight because the guy was better than you and losing a fight because the guy was better than you and had a massive gear advantage. Tiered queues gives people the opportunity to avoid the second scenario which lets them really work on the first scenario, which lets them concentrate on what they are doing wrong, not the huge differential between the new guy's fit and the vet's fit.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 88	Posted - 2014.12.12 15:57:00 - [73] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Gear differences are a big part of why new players cant compete. Stop acting like running in a squad is some kind of magical skill multiplier. Oh, but it IS a multiplier. And best of all, it is FREE. It costs no isk, and requires no SP investment. Your skill is multiplied because a) you can take advantage of tactical in-battle communication to multiply the effectiveness of your existing skills, and b) you learn from others so your skills will improve faster. Teaching and encouraging new players to squad with more experienced players would absolutely multiply their skill. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Meeko Fent True Illuminate 2287	Posted - 2014.12.12 16:22:00 - [74] - Quote Dubya Guy wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Gear differences are a big part of why new players cant compete. Stop acting like running in a squad is some kind of magical skill multiplier. Oh, but it IS a multiplier. And best of all, it is FREE. It costs no isk, and requires no SP investment. Your skill is multiplied because a) you can take advantage of tactical in-battle communication to multiply the effectiveness of your existing skills, and b) you learn from others so your skills will improve faster. Teaching and encouraging new players to squad with more experienced players would absolutely multiply their skill. Which experienced players don't want to do, because scrubs. And not everybody has a Bluetooth. I am the bluedot. And I will rise again.
Vell0cet OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2670	Posted - 2014.12.12 16:35:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. SP is absolutely not a measure of "fps skill". The vets will be on equal ground in STD gear. Then there is no "proto" stomping. And an equal amount of good players on each side. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to respond. I think there are 3 main factors at play when it comes to the new player: SP (core skills and access to gear), player skill (the thing that Mu is trying to quantify), and a 3rd variable that that encompasses knowledge of maps, understanding of the game mechanics, understanding of your opponents advantages/weaknesses (e.g. weapon ranges, damage profiles), understanding of group tactics, and social connections to allow you to work with people youGÇÖve run with before (place 6 random players in a squad and using a mic, and theyGÇÖll be at a significant disadvantage to 6 players who run together regularly, all other things being equal). YouGÇÖre 100% right that SP is not a good indication of player skill. Once youGÇÖre over a certain threshold SP really isnGÇÖt a factor at all. put a player with 20 mill SP against a player with every skill in the game maxed out and SP really wonGÇÖt matter much at all. Initially though, SP does play a pretty significant role. Take 2 experienced players of equal player skill. Have one run in a fresh-out-of-the-academy fit, and the 2nd player run the same fit but with 20 mill in SP. That SP will be a huge factor in who wins. By far the biggest problem though is that 3rd variableGÇöthe experience/knowledge/social factor variable. Now take 6 random dudes on coms who have never played together before, and have only just graduated from the academy and donGÇÖt know DUST very well yet, put them in proto suits with max SP and have them fight a squad of well-coordinated, vets on new alts. The players that should be proto stomping, will get decimated by the experienced guys in STD. The experienced players will know what ranges to attack from, what map positions are best for the current situation, they will move as a coordinated unit, and easily make up for their SP/Gear disadvantages. This is the main reason why I think an optional 2nd-tier academy mode is a much better solution. ItGÇÖs addressing that 3rd variable, and also the SP gap at the stage where itGÇÖs the most critical. YouGÇÖll also be able to have balanced matches as the playerGÇÖs MU in the 2nd-tier academy will begin to align over time with their actual skill. Tiering matches based on meta only affects gearGÇöwhich is the least significant part of why new players get destroyed after graduating the academy. It comes at a very steep cost. For one it really hurts the risk/reward mechanic that makes DUST so amazing. It feels awesome to take out a PRO suit using a STD one, while still possible to do by running cheap fits in the top-tier matches, I think youGÇÖre squadGÇÖs going to have issues with you. Having a mix of STD, ADV, and PRO at the endgame is fun and interesting. ItGÇÖs more of a sandbox. ItGÇÖs only fun though when you have the OPTION to run what you want, and not when you donGÇÖt have the skills to run PROGÇögetting stomped. Again the 2nd-tier academy solves this much more elegantly. Also PRO gear wonGÇÖt feel special if everyone else is running it. It becomes the new baseline at that tier. I think the meta tiered matches really ruin a lot of what makes DUST special and amazing, without actually solving the problems it needs to. The 2nd-tier optional academy mode DOES address the problems, and doesnGÇÖt screw up the game for everyone else. Much respect o7. Best PvE idea ever!
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 88	Posted - 2014.12.12 16:36:00 - [76] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Dubya Guy wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Gear differences are a big part of why new players cant compete. Stop acting like running in a squad is some kind of magical skill multiplier. Oh, but it IS a multiplier. And best of all, it is FREE. It costs no isk, and requires no SP investment. Your skill is multiplied because a) you can take advantage of tactical in-battle communication to multiply the effectiveness of your existing skills, and b) you learn from others so your skills will improve faster. Teaching and encouraging new players to squad with more experienced players would absolutely multiply their skill. Which experienced players don't want to do, because scrubs. And not everybody has a Bluetooth. Noted, and you are right on both points, Meeko. But, I think my point is still valid that IF you find a way to squad with folks at least a little more experienced than yourself, and IF you have the ability to hear your squadmates, your skills can improve faster than if you only play sans squad. The fact that it costs no ISK or SP is the "magical" part. It is absolutely possible to git gud playing by yourself. Some folks detest the social interactions of squadding, corps, etc. I can understand that. But if you are primarily concerned with how long it takes to learn a game, there is no better learning-curve-flattener, IMO, than to learn it from those who've already played it. CCP has given us squads and corps to facilitate this. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Pisidon Gmen Ivory Vanguard 46	Posted - 2014.12.12 17:27:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards fittings don't matter when u take in the bonuses just 4 having skilled in stuff ex proficiency 15%more damage armor plates lev 5 10%more armor from each plate 5 in armor and or sheld =25% more on every suit ect more sp invested = harder to kill / faster death to newer players some 1 do the math on a front line fitting with all skills to make it better vs a noob with no skill no changes to suits
Valor Goat 106	Posted - 2014.12.12 17:36:00 - [78] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards That'd be AMAZING. Fighting other proto users 24/7 and get enough ISK to cover your loses (you will die as much as you would in a PC battle with all proto users on the ground) - just awesome. That would also prepare pub stompers to the PC experience. 1EE7
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 388	Posted - 2014.12.12 17:38:00 - [79] - Quote This is what happens when you don't eat your oats. Destinys 10 year plan was great.
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 723	Posted - 2014.12.12 17:41:00 - [80] - Quote LOL @ UNBAISED RR Comment.. I wonder how much curve the RR Damage application is because of the community feedback. As a shield only user a BAR and SR eats shields users more effectively then a armor killing counterpart against a armor user. I don't have time for fancy stats but I know the feel is definitely scewed. Back on topic glad you got to stick around.. Join up in xmlx channel to squad up.. you'll live longer. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3964	Posted - 2014.12.12 17:41:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Obviously 100 and 200 are numbers out of thin air And now you know why I always use "X"s when I do design concept People love to latch onto numbers. But really, awesome stuff. High Risk, High Reward. Low Risk, Low Reward. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
voidfaction Nos Nothi 664	Posted - 2014.12.12 18:06:00 - [82] - Quote Pisidon Gmen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards fittings don't matter when u take in the bonuses just 4 having skilled in stuff ex proficiency 15%more damage armor plates lev 5 10%more armor from each plate 5 in armor and or sheld =25% more on every suit ect more sp invested = harder to kill / faster death to newer players some 1 do the math on a front line fitting with all skills to make it better vs a noob with no skill no changes to suits SQUAD UP IT HELPS A LOT WITH A MIC HELPS MORE Now make your comparison to the same noob vs a full proto with full skills. Proto stompers will be against this more than any. Pub proto stompers scared they will have to face proto when they are in there proto squads, lol
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 1037	Posted - 2014.12.12 18:44:00 - [83] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. SP is absolutely not a measure of "fps skill". The vets will be on equal ground in STD gear. Then there is no "proto" stomping. And an equal amount of good players on each side. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to respond. I think there are 3 main factors at play when it comes to the new player: SP (core skills and access to gear), player skill (the thing that Mu is trying to quantify), and a 3rd variable that that encompasses knowledge of maps, understanding of the game mechanics, understanding of your opponents advantages/weaknesses (e.g. weapon ranges, damage profiles), understanding of group tactics, and social connections to allow you to work with people youGÇÖve run with before (place 6 random players in a squad and using a mic, and theyGÇÖll be at a significant disadvantage to 6 players who run together regularly, all other things being equal). YouGÇÖre 100% right that SP is not a good indication of player skill. Once youGÇÖre over a certain threshold SP really isnGÇÖt a factor at all. Put a player with 20 mill SP against a player with every skill in the game maxed out and SP really wonGÇÖt matter much at all. Initially though, SP does play a pretty significant role. Take 2 experienced players of equal player skill. Have one run in a fresh-out-of-the-academy fit, and the 2nd player run the same fit but with 20 mill in SP. That SP will be a huge factor in who wins. By far the biggest problem though is that 3rd variableGÇöthe experience/knowledge/social factor variable. Now take 6 random dudes on coms who have never played together before, and have only just graduated from the academy and donGÇÖt know DUST very well yet, put them in proto suits with max SP and have them fight a squad of well-coordinated, vets on new alts. The players that should be proto stomping, will get decimated by the experienced guys in STD. The experienced players will know what ranges to attack from, what map positions are best for the current situation, they will move as a coordinated unit, and easily make up for their SP/Gear disadvantages. This is the main reason why I think an optional 2nd-tier academy mode is a much better solution. ItGÇÖs addressing that 3rd variable, and also the SP gap at the stage where itGÇÖs the most critical. YouGÇÖll also be able to have balanced matches as the playerGÇÖs MU in the 2nd-tier academy will begin to align over time with their actual skill. Tiering matches based on meta only affects gearGÇöwhich is the least significant part of why new players get destroyed after graduating the academy. It comes at a very steep cost. For one it really hurts the risk/reward mechanic that makes DUST so amazing. It feels awesome to take out a PRO suit using a STD one, while still possible to do by running cheap fits in the top-tier matches, I think youGÇÖre squadGÇÖs going to have issues with you. Having a mix of STD, ADV, and PRO at the endgame is fun and interesting. ItGÇÖs more of a sandbox. ItGÇÖs only fun though when you have the OPTION to run what you want, and not when you donGÇÖt have the skills to run PROGÇögetting stomped. Again the 2nd-tier academy solves this much more elegantly. Also PRO gear wonGÇÖt feel special if everyone else is running it. It becomes the new baseline at that tier. I think the meta tiered matches really ruin a lot of what makes DUST special and amazing, without actually solving the problems it needs to. The 2nd-tier optional academy mode DOES address the problems, and doesnGÇÖt screw up the game for everyone else. Much respect o7. Edit: A couple more cons with the tiered approach. You're splitting the player base into smaller pools which could really increase queuing times, while the 2nd tier academy only splits it once. Also this would be very hard to balance. Some things may have big advantages in low tiers, and suck at the high tiers. For example, low-end vehicles will be very hard to kill using std AV. This could lead to weird "tiered metas" arising with serious balance problems. Mr Rattati, I wanted to respond to your response to Vell0cet but he has summed it up so much more succinctly. I'm not saying your way won't work, just that I think he has a solid point, and some discussion would be nice. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 6306	Posted - 2014.12.12 18:49:00 - [84] - Quote Guns for Glory wrote: I came into dust thinking it was like battlefield but when I played my first game it got better! It brought back my memories of MAG! (R.I.P.) so I continued playing and loved it until.....it took me out of the training mission. Then I was thrown in with players that have 6 months plus put into the game. At first I thought I just wasn't used to the game and the aiming so I kept my chin up and pushed on. Now I am 3 weeks in and I know the maps and my aiming is tighter but ow I'm putting a rail rifle clip into an enemy's back to only have them 3 shot me. Pretty unbalanced if you ask me. Plenty of good mmo fps have a skill system but even a new player can do some damage and have fun. Oh and the constant spawn killing is rather annoying. There should be away to play with players only in my range of sp. in general the game has good concepts and fun gameplay but how very unbalanced it is, it realy breaks the game for new players. I realy really want to love this game but I just can't find a reason too. I'm not into wasting 6 months to get enough sp to be able to have some fun. Veterans I understands why you play this game....new players you should just turn around before your ahead unless you have months to use and don't mind gettin slapped around most of your gynnan I think i might remember that name from somewhere.... Valor or SVER maybe... Amarr Logi, Scout, Assault , Sentinel and soon Commando. Check MY loyalty Empress o7
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 252	Posted - 2014.12.12 18:56:00 - [85] - Quote Dubya Guy wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: Gear differences are a big part of why new players cant compete. Stop acting like running in a squad is some kind of magical skill multiplier. Oh, but it IS a multiplier. And best of all, it is FREE. It costs no isk, and requires no SP investment. Your skill is multiplied because a) you can take advantage of tactical in-battle communication to multiply the effectiveness of your existing skills, and b) you learn from others so your skills will improve faster. Teaching and encouraging new players to squad with more experienced players would absolutely multiply their skill. Most new players in a squad (hell, most players in squads period) just run around like they normally do, they dont actually play as a squad. You communicate in battle via team or other chat, being in a squad doesn't really matter except when you factor in orbitals and squad based scanning. Team play is team play, whether or not you are in a squad, thats what I mean when I say squads arent a magical skill multiplier. I do agree though that having new players squad with experienced players could help alot (maybe a daily mission/reward framework based around this kind of mentoring would be a great thing to add to dust)
zzZaXxx The Exemplars 696	Posted - 2014.12.12 19:03:00 - [86] - Quote I used to never ever ever run standard suits/weapons but when my ISK started getting into the danger zone I started and it's made me a much better player. If you get used to doing what it takes to survive with standard then you'll not only be comfortable going cheap but you'll do better in advanced than you did before and even more so in proto. The thing is to value saving your suits above getting kills. If you're thinking you might be about to be exposed, you're probably already exposed and you need to fall back. Never stand still for more than 1 sec unless your looking for a cloaker. Then you need to be as still as possible. Always assume there's a little b!tch a$$ cloaker near you. Stay with the crowd as a rule. It's hard to do but this will save you a lot of deaths, esp. via SG. Definitely flank and go off on your own when the moment's right but not when you just feel the urge. Resist the urge to be Rambo. At the same time make your standard fitting economical yet effective so that you can be decisive instead of being tentative because you don't want to lose your suit. Be smart and assume your enemy is smart. Be conservative yet decisive. Use your environment. Don't post up in places where you can get got from three directions. Take your time and wait for them to make mistakes. You won't have to wait for long. Skill higher into the suit /weapon that best suits how you naturally tend to play....then give yourself some other options. For example I always end up gravitating to Cal Assault/RR because that's my style: putting myself in a good spot (not too far on the exposed flank though) and harassing. With the above approach I tend to go 11/3 a lot with standard suit/gun/sidearm.
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 252	Posted - 2014.12.12 19:06:00 - [87] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: LOL @ UNBAISED RR Comment.. I wonder how much curve the RR Damage application is because of the community feedback. As a shield only user a BAR and SR eats shields users more effectively then a armor killing counterpart against a armor user. I don't have time for fancy stats but I know the feel is definitely scewed. Back on topic glad you got to stick around.. Join up in xmlx channel to squad up.. you'll live longer. Well lets think about the math of it: if we have damage profiles of +5% armor vs. -5% shield, vs. a weapon with -5% armor vs. +5% shield, what weapon should we use? If you run up against all shield suits, obviously you want to use the +5% shield one, but if there is an even mix, then you have to think to yourself: just how much HP for each type are we talking about? In dust right now what you are going to see is alot more armor out there to burn through than shield, just because you get more HP from armor. This means that the vast majority of the time you will want an anti-armor damage profile to burn through all the armor. It also means that the anti shield weapons are generally overpowered vs. shields because they have to be balanced so that they are useful at all against armor suits (more dps overall so they can compete vs. armor fits results in even higher damage to shields once profile comes into play) What results is weapons like the scrambler rifle that absolutely demolish inside of a half a second any amount of shields and are decent against armor as well. These things are more OP against shields than the old mass driver with the 135% to armor profile was against armor, but I guess nobody cares yet.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 92	Posted - 2014.12.12 19:19:00 - [88] - Quote Vesta Opalus, It seems like your team chat vs squad experiences have been the inverse of mine. Vesta Opalus wrote: I do agree though that having new players squad with experienced players could help alot (maybe a daily mission/reward framework based around this kind of mentoring would be a great thing to add to dust) What a cool idea! FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Niuvo NECROM0NGERS 1053	Posted - 2014.12.12 19:25:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Yes!
Ku Shala The Generals 1056	Posted - 2014.12.12 19:37:00 - [90] - Quote quafe stomp ahoy! *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä (Caldari Specialist)* Caldari Loyalist *Assault -Logistics-Sentinal-Scout-Commando Allround CK-0

Funkmaster Whale Whale Pod 2588	Posted - 2014.12.12 20:15:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. SP is absolutely not a measure of "fps skill". The vets will be on equal ground in STD gear. Then there is no "proto" stomping. And an equal amount of good players on each side. It's not a direct measure of skill, but it is a pretty good measure of familiarity with the game. The inherent problem right now is that you have people who have been playing the game for 2+ years being matched against people who just downloaded it last night. He makes a valid point in saying that vets will still be dominating games because the new players aren't nearly as acquainted with the maps, game mechanics, counter-play tactics, etc. A new player that joins the game and sees a tank or dropship decimating his team isn't going to have any idea how to effectively kill it. A new player isn't going to know how to get rid of uplinks in areas that are only reachable by dropship. These are the types of things new players suffer from and turn them away very quickly. I have 300m+ ISK and could feasibly run proto 24/7 without a problem, but I play ADV gear in pubs because (a) viewers on stream started calling me out on it and (b) I want this game to succeed and don't want to turn any more players away from dying to a "proto stomper". The problem is I can just as easily go 30-0 in an ADV suit as I can in a Proto. I'm still matched against brand new players and would continue to be if such a system were implemented. I would join the lower "tier" and continue to decimate new players. He makes a very valid point in saying that gear is merely a symptom of the problem and not the cause. Proto gear doesn't make a player good, but it does make it more likely that the player will know what he/she is doing. The inherent problem is you don't have an adequate player base to separate players into "leagues" where they would only be matched against players of similar skill level. There's still a really strong discrepancy in skill level between teams. I still get games where I'll have 2000+ warpoints mid-game and the next highest person has like 300-400 warpoints. I would love to constantly be matched against Nyain San, FA, Titans of Phoenix, or w/e other corp that knows what they're doing because, although I die a lot more, the games seem a lot more challenging and fun because I'm not decimating players who are still trying to figure out how their weapon works. I don't know. I can't really say what would fix pubstomping as it's a deeper issue than just gear, but I can guarantee that separating the playerbase even more is going to make matchmaking even worse. If I queue up for the "highest reward" bracket and I'm sitting in queue for more than a few minutes I'll just drop my tier until I can get faster matches. I'm sure many of the pubstomping squads will do the same if they find their queues start to get ridiculous. The playerbase isn't large enough to separate them even further. Even now I'll play Spambush and get either matched with or against the same group of players multiple matches in a row... Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 1487	Posted - 2014.12.12 20:20:00 - [92] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Obviously 100 and 200 are numbers out of thin air Hi Crush them
NIETZCHES OVERMAN Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 118	Posted - 2014.12.12 20:53:00 - [93] - Quote Guns for Glory wrote: I came into dust thinking it was like battlefield but when I played my first game it got better! It brought back my memories of MAG! (R.I.P.) so I continued playing and loved it until.....it took me out of the training mission. Then I was thrown in with players that have 6 months plus put into the game. At first I thought I just wasn't used to the game and the aiming so I kept my chin up and pushed on. Now I am 3 weeks in and I know the maps and my aiming is tighter but ow I'm putting a rail rifle clip into an enemy's back to only have them 3 shot me. Pretty unbalanced if you ask me. Plenty of good mmo fps have a skill system but even a new player can do some damage and have fun. Oh and the constant spawn killing is rather annoying. There should be away to play with players only in my range of sp. in general the game has good concepts and fun gameplay but how very unbalanced it is, it realy breaks the game for new players. I realy really want to love this game but I just can't find a reason too. I'm not into wasting 6 months to get enough sp to be able to have some fun. Veterans I understands why you play this game....new players you should just turn around before your ahead unless you have months to use and don't mind gettin slapped around most of your gynnan It does not take even close to 6 months to become competitive. Buy a booster or 3, play some events. Stay in a squad, stay WITH your squad. You should always be shooting WITH someone, when shooting at anyone. Get a squadmate with a scrambler and watch how fast the 2 of you melt face. DUST 514 is NOT a solo endeavor. Teamwork is OP. Perhaps you should play support, not everyone is a slayer. As for playing with ppl in your sp range HTFU please now. We all did it. Dust is not 4 every 1......
NIETZCHES OVERMAN Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 118	Posted - 2014.12.12 20:55:00 - [94] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: This is why tiers must die. No tiericide scrub, get better.
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 95	Posted - 2014.12.12 20:59:00 - [95] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: A new player that joins the game and sees a tank or dropship decimating his team isn't going to have any idea how to effectively kill it. A new player isn't going to know how to get rid of uplinks in areas that are only reachable by dropship. These are the types of things new players suffer from.... . . . The people who go around claiming "protostomping" is the problem are merely suffering from confirmation bias. They believe that proto gear is the reason they die when it's actually organization and squad cohesiveness that they get dominated by. This^ But I am not convinced it is all that big of a turn-away for people. Or rather, it turns people away who are really looking for a different kind of game, something other than a collaborative tactical shooter. Game advantages obtained from organization, squad cohesiveness, terrain and advanced tactics knowledge...these are POSITIVES of Dust. If something is lacking, it is in the education of new and potential players about how important these aspects of the game are. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
NIETZCHES OVERMAN Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 118	Posted - 2014.12.12 21:10:00 - [96] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Terrible idea, how can you think its about gear? You are too smart to fall for that. Its about experience vs noob. Squad vs solo. Run and gun vs tactics. Its about Hardening the **** up in New Eden and earning your stripes. Damn these noobs got a weekly cap TRIPPLED what I had and they stack boosters????? Gimme a break..... Go make your bones, like men, like MERCS you soft footed EURO trash liberal POS....... RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAG
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 673	Posted - 2014.12.12 21:14:00 - [97] - Quote WARxion ForDUST wrote: Thanks for your review, welcome in New Eden. If you check out the Developer Roadmap you can see they are implementing a Tier Filter, if everything goes well (it won't, it never does) they can deploy it in early spring. But please keep in mind, players who played this game since beta earned their stuff through fires and flames so it's pretty ok IMO to wreck a few days old newbies. HTFU Horse ****, players who played since beta have been playing players since beta. The SP disparity grows everyday. I can't say it can be helped, but I get real tired of people spouting the bullshit that beta vets had it just as hard. No one ha proto everything with all core skills in beta, players do now.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 674	Posted - 2014.12.12 21:22:00 - [98] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I think this idea can work if for example: Tier 1 - Roughly STD level gear with half the isk payouts and half the salvage chances. Tier 2 - Roughly ADV level of gear with standard isk payouts and standard salvage. Tier 3 - Free for all level of gear with double the isk payouts and double the salvage rate. Leave FW and PC as free for all in their current iteration. Possibly increase the reward for losing to not be so steep (I mean only 10% sheesh) so that players will actually queue more for FW. Right now its pretty much a waste unless you know you can win.
SoTa PoP Titans of Phoenix 5310	Posted - 2014.12.12 21:24:00 - [99] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: WARxion ForDUST wrote: Thanks for your review, welcome in New Eden. If you check out the Developer Roadmap you can see they are implementing a Tier Filter, if everything goes well (it won't, it never does) they can deploy it in early spring. But please keep in mind, players who played this game since beta earned their stuff through fires and flames so it's pretty ok IMO to wreck a few days old newbies. HTFU Horse ****, players who played since beta have been playing players since beta. The SP disparity grows everyday. I can't say it can be helped, but I get real tired of people spouting the bullshit that beta vets had it just as hard. No one ha proto everything with all core skills in beta, players do now. Don't waste your SP and you'll be ready at 5mil to kill proto suit, and PC ready at 15mil. Proto weapon > core > suit your welcome. I don't use Proto in pubs and I get called a proto stomper. I don't even believe it exists anymore and you guys just cry about anything killing you. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 96	Posted - 2014.12.12 21:24:00 - [100] - Quote NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: This is why tiers must die. No tiericide scrub, get better. OMG. You are calling Spectral Clone a scrub? and telling him to get better!? Nietzches, I generally agree with your sentiments about this thread, but you might win more support for your viewpoint if you saved ridiculous chest thumping and name-calling for the The War Room. If anyone's a scrub here and needs to get better, it's me, and I disagree with Spectral, an admittedly better and more experienced player than myself, at the considered risk of making a fool of myself by doing so. FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.

TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 674	Posted - 2014.12.12 21:25:00 - [101] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: WARxion ForDUST wrote: Thanks for your review, welcome in New Eden. If you check out the Developer Roadmap you can see they are implementing a Tier Filter, if everything goes well (it won't, it never does) they can deploy it in early spring. But please keep in mind, players who played this game since beta earned their stuff through fires and flames so it's pretty ok IMO to wreck a few days old newbies. HTFU Horse ****, players who played since beta have been playing players since beta. The SP disparity grows everyday. I can't say it can be helped, but I get real tired of people spouting the bullshit that beta vets had it just as hard. No one ha proto everything with all core skills in beta, players do now. Don't waste your SP and you'll be ready at 5mil to kill proto suit, and PC ready at 15mil. Proto weapon > core > suit your welcome. I don't use Proto in pubs and I get called a proto stomper. I don't even believe it exists anymore and you guys just cry about anything killing you. If you skill into medi logi, shotgun scout, or hmg heavy sure, but if you don't happen to be toting BAR rifles you aren't going to be PC ready by 15 mil. And if you don't happen to be the FOTM you won't be competitive. That's what makes people with 70mil+ SP impossible to compete with. They will have all of the good gear. Also, I can tell you must be one of those people that always have 4 guys hugging your ass in your squad if you think proto weapons (Slightly more dps for 47k isk) is more cost effective compared to a proto suit (47k for superior CPU/PG and slots) or for damn sure cores. Edit: NM saw your corp Titans of Phoenix lol. I've never seen you guys do good when you weren't pub stomping the battle academy grads.
Robocop Junior research lab 901	Posted - 2014.12.12 21:36:00 - [102] - Quote R.I.P MAG! Still nothing has been as gratifying as fixing that barricade just before 18 people could rush in to take the point lol. If strength were all, tiger would not fear scorpion.
jane stalin Ametat Security Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2014.12.12 21:40:00 - [103] - Quote All the AFKers will go to the tier that gives the highest payouts, probably tier 3, so don't expect many opponents By the way can troops in the MCC be scanned? I played a 12 versus 4 battle and I was flying around in my viper looking for them I don't blame for staying in the dropship if they were outnumbered
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 674	Posted - 2014.12.12 21:45:00 - [104] - Quote jane stalin wrote: All the AFKers will go to the tier that gives the highest payouts, probably tier 3, so don't expect many opponents By the way can troops in the MCC be scanned? I played a 12 versus 4 battle and I was flying around in my viper looking for them I don't blame for staying in the dropship if they were outnumbered That's a fair point, although I think WP just needs to more directly correlate to earnings as well since that's the game's current metric. You shouldn't get isk for doing nothing an entire match. If they change that then no more afkers or at least no afkers trying to isk grind if they get a big fat 0 for their efforts.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 1429	Posted - 2014.12.13 00:30:00 - [105] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Yes. Everyone will probably focus on the metalevel restrictions, but I think the different reward levels will be the most significant part of this. Top players won't play for anything other than the highest rewards; new players will accept the lower rewards in order to play matches without those top players stomping them. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 13534	Posted - 2014.12.13 01:08:00 - [106] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. SP is absolutely not a measure of "fps skill". The vets will be on equal ground in STD gear. Then there is no "proto" stomping. And an equal amount of good players on each side. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to respond. I think there are 3 main factors at play when it comes to the new player: SP (core skills and access to gear), player skill (the thing that Mu is trying to quantify), and a 3rd variable that that encompasses knowledge of maps, understanding of the game mechanics, understanding of your opponents advantages/weaknesses (e.g. weapon ranges, damage profiles), understanding of group tactics, and social connections to allow you to work with people youGÇÖve run with before (place 6 random players in a squad and using a mic, and theyGÇÖll be at a significant disadvantage to 6 players who run together regularly, all other things being equal). YouGÇÖre 100% right that SP is not a good indication of player skill. Once youGÇÖre over a certain threshold SP really isnGÇÖt a factor at all. Put a player with 20 mill SP against a player with every skill in the game maxed out and SP really wonGÇÖt matter much at all. Initially though, SP does play a pretty significant role. Take 2 experienced players of equal player skill. Have one run in a fresh-out-of-the-academy fit, and the 2nd player run the same fit but with 20 mill in SP. That SP will be a huge factor in who wins. By far the biggest problem though is that 3rd variableGÇöthe experience/knowledge/social factor variable. Now take 6 random dudes on coms who have never played together before, and have only just graduated from the academy and donGÇÖt know DUST very well yet, put them in proto suits with max SP and have them fight a squad of well-coordinated, vets on new alts. The players that should be proto stomping, will get decimated by the experienced guys in STD. The experienced players will know what ranges to attack from, what map positions are best for the current situation, they will move as a coordinated unit, and easily make up for their SP/Gear disadvantages. This is the main reason why I think an optional 2nd-tier academy mode is a much better solution. ItGÇÖs addressing that 3rd variable, and also the SP gap at the stage where itGÇÖs the most critical. YouGÇÖll also be able to have balanced matches as the playerGÇÖs MU in the 2nd-tier academy will begin to align over time with their actual skill. Tiering matches based on meta only affects gearGÇöwhich is the least significant part of why new players get destroyed after graduating the academy. It comes at a very steep cost. For one it really hurts the risk/reward mechanic that makes DUST so amazing. It feels awesome to take out a PRO suit using a STD one, while still possible to do by running cheap fits in the top-tier matches, I think youGÇÖre squadGÇÖs going to have issues with you. Having a mix of STD, ADV, and PRO at the endgame is fun and interesting. ItGÇÖs more of a sandbox. ItGÇÖs only fun though when you have the OPTION to run what you want, and not when you donGÇÖt have the skills to run PROGÇögetting stomped. Again the 2nd-tier academy solves this much more elegantly. Also PRO gear wonGÇÖt feel special if everyone else is running it. It becomes the new baseline at that tier. I think the meta tiered matches really ruin a lot of what makes DUST special and amazing, without actually solving the problems it needs to. The 2nd-tier optional academy mode DOES address the problems, and doesnGÇÖt screw up the game for everyone else. Much respect o7. Edit: A couple more cons with the tiered approach. You're splitting the player base into smaller pools which could really increase queuing times, while the 2nd tier academy only splits it once. Also this would be very hard to balance. Some things may have big advantages in low tiers, and suck at the high tiers. For example, low-end vehicles will be very hard to kill using std AV. This could lead to weird "tiered metas" arising with serious balance problems. Thanks for the feedback. We will be sure to incorporate it, there are more than one way to skin this cat, and maybe a combination of metalevel and sp is the way to go. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

SoTa PoP Titans of Phoenix 5318	Posted - 2014.12.13 01:09:00 - [107] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks for the feedback. We will be sure to incorporate it, there are more than one way to skin this cat, and maybe a combination of metalevel and sp is the way to go. I just want to confirm one thing: You're fine with ruining the Risk vs Reward aspect of this game with brackets?.... n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
SoTa PoP Titans of Phoenix 5318	Posted - 2014.12.13 01:11:00 - [108] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: WARxion ForDUST wrote: Thanks for your review, welcome in New Eden. If you check out the Developer Roadmap you can see they are implementing a Tier Filter, if everything goes well (it won't, it never does) they can deploy it in early spring. But please keep in mind, players who played this game since beta earned their stuff through fires and flames so it's pretty ok IMO to wreck a few days old newbies. HTFU Horse ****, players who played since beta have been playing players since beta. The SP disparity grows everyday. I can't say it can be helped, but I get real tired of people spouting the bullshit that beta vets had it just as hard. No one ha proto everything with all core skills in beta, players do now. Don't waste your SP and you'll be ready at 5mil to kill proto suit, and PC ready at 15mil. Proto weapon > core > suit your welcome. I don't use Proto in pubs and I get called a proto stomper. I don't even believe it exists anymore and you guys just cry about anything killing you. If you skill into medi logi, shotgun scout, or hmg heavy sure, but if you don't happen to be toting BAR rifles you aren't going to be PC ready by 15 mil. And if you don't happen to be the FOTM you won't be competitive. That's what makes people with 70mil+ SP impossible to compete with. They will have all of the good gear. Also, I can tell you must be one of those people that always have 4 guys hugging your ass in your squad if you think proto weapons (Slightly more dps for 47k isk) is more cost effective compared to a proto suit (47k for superior CPU/PG and slots) or for damn sure cores. Edit: NM saw your corp Titans of Phoenix lol. I've never seen you guys do good when you weren't pub stomping the battle academy grads. If I remember correctly you guys spam shotgun scouts, hmg heavies, and tanks. I'm guessing though as that's what most the scrub corps spam. Cores > suits > modules > proto weapons. Rushing proto weapons before anything else is a good way for newbies to go bankrupt. General Discussion peasants don't get to talk to me as an equal. Sit down, shut up, listen to what I say, learn from it, then feel grateful I spent any time on you at all. And your own ability keeps you from competing - not your gear. The balance this game has now compared to a year ago is vastly improved. FOTM isn't all dominating - only bad players think so. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1063	Posted - 2014.12.13 01:29:00 - [109] - Quote Dear op, just buy gall apex scout. Bingo, if u not wanna die, u not die. Other things - personal skills. Please support fair play!
NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 727	Posted - 2014.12.13 01:30:00 - [110] - Quote I rather just see a restriction by millita, basic, advanced and proto gear as shown in the Dust Trailer. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012

SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 734	Posted - 2014.12.13 02:20:00 - [111] - Quote I've seen new people do well before. I myself only use cheap suits, although I understand I have some bonuses from the SP I have gained. I personally do not mind dying a few times before getting one kill if they are proto users. I love knowing that I won the ISK battle. That was how I PVPed in EVE, and it is how I do it in DUST. I jut wish they showed us some kind of ISK efficiency. Maybe and end of match stat that showed ISK lost, and ISK destroyed. Like EVE counting all kills and assists and the ISK cost of those items.
Inmortal Slayer Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 2	Posted - 2014.12.13 03:09:00 - [112] - Quote Guns for Glory wrote: I came into dust thinking it was like battlefield but when I played my first game it got better! It brought back my memories of MAG! (R.I.P.) so I continued playing and loved it until.....it took me out of the training mission. Then I was thrown in with players that have 6 months plus put into the game. At first I thought I just wasn't used to the game and the aiming so I kept my chin up and pushed on. Now I am 3 weeks in and I know the maps and my aiming is tighter but ow I'm putting a rail rifle clip into an enemy's back to only have them 3 shot me. Pretty unbalanced if you ask me. Plenty of good mmo fps have a skill system but even a new player can do some damage and have fun. Oh and the constant spawn killing is rather annoying. There should be away to play with players only in my range of sp. in general the game has good concepts and fun gameplay but how very unbalanced it is, it realy breaks the game for new players. I realy really want to love this game but I just can't find a reason too. I'm not into wasting 6 months to get enough sp to be able to have some fun. Veterans I understands why you play this game....new players you should just turn around before your ahead unless you have months to use and don't mind gettin slapped around most of your gynnan spawn camping is a 2 person job 1 from each team.. sorry to say but if you constantly spawn on camped links/crus your stupid. the first spawn and second even are understandable but the rest are your fault. also the game isn't like cod or anything else ccp is one of the only developers not turning into the cod fad of "everybody should have a fair chance and be equal " I say good on ya ccp for making a game that challenges its users to think about how they play and doesn't have a dev babysitting you the whole way through. you gotta learn the game and eventually you will find out what your doing wrong then you wont complain on the forums no more :D
Inmortal Slayer Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 2	Posted - 2014.12.13 03:12:00 - [113] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: WARxion ForDUST wrote: Thanks for your review, welcome in New Eden. If you check out the Developer Roadmap you can see they are implementing a Tier Filter, if everything goes well (it won't, it never does) they can deploy it in early spring. But please keep in mind, players who played this game since beta earned their stuff through fires and flames so it's pretty ok IMO to wreck a few days old newbies. HTFU Horse ****, players who played since beta have been playing players since beta. The SP disparity grows everyday. I can't say it can be helped, but I get real tired of people spouting the bullshit that beta vets had it just as hard. No one ha proto everything with all core skills in beta, players do now. Don't waste your SP and you'll be ready at 5mil to kill proto suit, and PC ready at 15mil. Proto weapon > core > suit your welcome. I don't use Proto in pubs and I get called a proto stomper. I don't even believe it exists anymore and you guys just cry about anything killing you. If you skill into medi logi, shotgun scout, or hmg heavy sure, but if you don't happen to be toting BAR rifles you aren't going to be PC ready by 15 mil. And if you don't happen to be the FOTM you won't be competitive. That's what makes people with 70mil+ SP impossible to compete with. They will have all of the good gear. Also, I can tell you must be one of those people that always have 4 guys hugging your ass in your squad if you think proto weapons (Slightly more dps for 47k isk) is more cost effective compared to a proto suit (47k for superior CPU/PG and slots) or for damn sure cores. Edit: NM saw your corp Titans of Phoenix lol. I've never seen you guys do good when you weren't pub stomping the battle academy grads. If I remember correctly you guys spam shotgun scouts, hmg heavies, and tanks. I'm guessing though as that's what most the scrub corps spam. Cores > suits > modules > proto weapons. Rushing proto weapons before anything else is a good way for newbies to go bankrupt. General Discussion peasants don't get to talk to me as an equal. Sit down, shut up, listen to what I say, learn from it, then feel grateful I spent any time on you at all. And your own ability keeps you from competing - not your gear. The balance this game has now compared to a year ago is vastly improved. FOTM isn't all dominating - only bad players think so. moody mentioned somthings in a video one time about how vet could stomp a lot fo us in milita gear whe we have proto. its skills not gear.
RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1512	Posted - 2014.12.13 03:15:00 - [114] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards How about for the kick off of this mechanic, we have another, stomp the devs event? Honestly I would have posted this anywhere, but it's been a long time since I've fought a dev on the battle field. Empress $layer.
Ace Boone Capital Acquisitions LLC 572	Posted - 2014.12.13 05:40:00 - [115] - Quote This was the only game I was ever truly good at. I peaked when a lot of the playerbase left tho, and I don't even have a PS3. I just comment on the forums because this game gave me some really good memories. It was almost a run-away from reality, really. In reality, I'm just a guy among 7 billion other people, even if what I'm doing is significant, it doesn't really matter in the long run. In DUST, I'm Ace Boone. I'm a merc, and if I play well enough, I can turn the whole tide of a battle, and in sequence, change the holdings of Molden Heath. That's really what it becomes. A get away. An escape from reality, and a portal into a new sci-fi universe you've never been apart of before. Only loyal to the republic. I'm nothing more than bittervet without a PS3.
Vell0cet OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2674	Posted - 2014.12.13 05:46:00 - [116] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks for the feedback. We will be sure to incorporate it, there are more than one way to skin this cat, and maybe a combination of metalevel and sp is the way to go. Thanks for reading/considering my post. I know you've got a lot on your plate. I also think this is an example of where posting the roadmap can produce a better outcome by collaborating with the players early before you guys commit too many development resources to something. Thank you for keeping us in the loop. It means a lot to us as players, and I think it's very smart business. I don't know how difficult it would be to implement the 2nd tier optional academy mode, but from the outside looking in, it seems like a much easier idea to code. You, of course, have access to the data and know how that would affect queue times and such, as well as what would be involved in creating a mode that only appeared for people that met the SP requirements (this may already be possible with the existing code). The other issue would be creating a pop-up message for when a squad leader (who meets the requirements) queued for this mode, but one of his squamates didn't, notifying that person they can't join the battle. Overall that sounds like a pretty minimal amount of work, but I realize things can be much more complex to implement than they may appear. If this truly is reasonably easy to add though. I urge you to think about the possibility of trying this suggestion as an experiment first. Run it for a month or two and see how it affects new player retention numbers. I think it's a much smaller risk with much less development resources and balancing issues to manage. If this radically improves retention (as I believe it will), other measures may be unnecessary. If it fails horribly, you can always remove the mode and try other options (and delete my ISK/rename my character "The Idi0t" with dev hacks ). From my perspective, this is a low-risk idea, with the potential for very high rewards. Then again, I don't know what you know. I haven't seen the data you've seen, so take that for what it's worth. Best PvE idea ever!
SgtMajSquish MLBJ Consolidated Dust 240	Posted - 2014.12.13 05:51:00 - [117] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Cores > suits > modules > proto weapons. Rushing proto weapons before anything else is a good way for newbies to go bankrupt. this is definitely a good order, although i ran it more like Cores > Modules > Proto Weapon SKILLS > Suits > Purchase of proto weapons Pffft....... Proto Suits lol Adv Omni Merc is the way to go
voidfaction Nos Nothi 665	Posted - 2014.12.13 06:11:00 - [118] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. SP is absolutely not a measure of "fps skill". The vets will be on equal ground in STD gear. Then there is no "proto" stomping. And an equal amount of good players on each side. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to respond. I think there are 3 main factors at play when it comes to the new player: SP (core skills and access to gear), player skill (the thing that Mu is trying to quantify), and a 3rd variable that that encompasses knowledge of maps, understanding of the game mechanics, understanding of your opponents advantages/weaknesses (e.g. weapon ranges, damage profiles), understanding of group tactics, and social connections to allow you to work with people youGÇÖve run with before (place 6 random players in a squad and using a mic, and theyGÇÖll be at a significant disadvantage to 6 players who run together regularly, all other things being equal). YouGÇÖre 100% right that SP is not a good indication of player skill. Once youGÇÖre over a certain threshold SP really isnGÇÖt a factor at all. Put a player with 20 mill SP against a player with every skill in the game maxed out and SP really wonGÇÖt matter much at all. Initially though, SP does play a pretty significant role. Take 2 experienced players of equal player skill. Have one run in a fresh-out-of-the-academy fit, and the 2nd player run the same fit but with 20 mill in SP. That SP will be a huge factor in who wins. By far the biggest problem though is that 3rd variableGÇöthe experience/knowledge/social factor variable. Now take 6 random dudes on coms who have never played together before, and have only just graduated from the academy and donGÇÖt know DUST very well yet, put them in proto suits with max SP and have them fight a squad of well-coordinated, vets on new alts. The players that should be proto stomping, will get decimated by the experienced guys in STD. The experienced players will know what ranges to attack from, what map positions are best for the current situation, they will move as a coordinated unit, and easily make up for their SP/Gear disadvantages. This is the main reason why I think an optional 2nd-tier academy mode is a much better solution. ItGÇÖs addressing that 3rd variable, and also the SP gap at the stage where itGÇÖs the most critical. YouGÇÖll also be able to have balanced matches as the playerGÇÖs MU in the 2nd-tier academy will begin to align over time with their actual skill. Tiering matches based on meta only affects gearGÇöwhich is the least significant part of why new players get destroyed after graduating the academy. It comes at a very steep cost. For one it really hurts the risk/reward mechanic that makes DUST so amazing. It feels awesome to take out a PRO suit using a STD one, while still possible to do by running cheap fits in the top-tier matches, I think youGÇÖre squadGÇÖs going to have issues with you. Having a mix of STD, ADV, and PRO at the endgame is fun and interesting. ItGÇÖs more of a sandbox. ItGÇÖs only fun though when you have the OPTION to run what you want, and not when you donGÇÖt have the skills to run PROGÇögetting stomped. Again the 2nd-tier academy solves this much more elegantly. Also PRO gear wonGÇÖt feel special if everyone else is running it. It becomes the new baseline at that tier. I think the meta tiered matches really ruin a lot of what makes DUST special and amazing, without actually solving the problems it needs to. The 2nd-tier optional academy mode DOES address the problems, and doesnGÇÖt screw up the game for everyone else. Much respect o7. Edit: A couple more cons with the tiered approach. You're splitting the player base into smaller pools which could really increase queuing times, while the 2nd tier academy only splits it once. Also this would be very hard to balance. Some things may have big advantages in low tiers, and suck at the high tiers. For example, low-end vehicles will be very hard to kill using std AV. This could lead to weird "tiered metas" arising with serious balance problems. I like the 2nd tier academy idea. If gear is least significant part then why do squads proto stomp pub matches? Why would so many want to keep the ability to proto stomp pub matches in the game? Do proto stompers not want to be in matches vs other proto squads? Can they still stomp in STD gear vs STD gear yes. So why do they need to defend the ability to do it in proto gear vs STD gear?
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 459	Posted - 2014.12.13 07:21:00 - [119] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks for the feedback. We will be sure to incorporate it, there are more than one way to skin this cat, and maybe a combination of metalevel and sp is the way to go. I just want to confirm one thing: You're fine with ruining the Risk vs Reward aspect of this game with brackets?.... Implying there is a stable Risk/Reward system to ruin Fight tooth and nail in proto to barely win the game and go 30-5? Whoops, you just guaranteed yourself a net loss of ISK. Meanwhile... Logi on your team spends the entire game farming bluedots for spawn kills and triage (likely the reason the game was a tough win) and goes 0-5 with 2000 WP in std/adv gear? He draws a big chunk of the teams payout and has a net gain for no risk. Sniper on the opposing, losing team goes 5-0 with 500 WP? He probably made more than most of the players on the winning team, zero risk. Yep, great Risk/Reward aspect right there. Dividing the game so that a high payout "null-sec" division of pubs would open up the ability to create an area where payouts are much more directly dependent on winning, kills, WP, and gear destroyed. There would still be risk/reward, but losing some expensive gear wouldn't guarantee a net loss, you would just have to make those losses count for something of greater value than the cost of the materials destroyed. Winning should also be THE MOST significant factor in your ISK payout in such a match, as winning should be the thing which you are taking the risk in order to ultimately obtain. As much as I hate bringing in "lore based" arguments... The NPC corps paying for those contracts would obviously want you to utilize your best resources, and they would want to compensate you for making those resources profitable. Obviously, breaking even or anything below a 2.0 K/D (or an AV/Logistics equivalent) wouldn't be acceptable in proto gear, but it also shouldn't be a flat "lose 4 proto suits and you won't make any profit" either.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 1039	Posted - 2014.12.13 07:22:00 - [120] - Quote voidfaction wrote: I like the 2nd tier academy idea. If gear is least significant part then why do squads proto stomp pub matches? Why would so many want to keep the ability to proto stomp pub matches in the game? Do proto stompers not want to be in matches vs other proto squads? Can they still stomp in STD gear vs STD gear yes. So why do they need to defend the ability to do it in proto gear vs STD gear? - coz least significant doesn't mean insignificant R F Gyro wrote: Everyone will probably focus on the metalevel restrictions, but I think the different reward levels will be the most significant part of this. Top players won't play for anything other than the highest rewards; new players will accept the lower rewards in order to play matches without those top players stomping them. - coz KDR is a reward to some You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz

IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 1039	Posted - 2014.12.13 07:24:00 - [121] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: Fight tooth and nail in proto to barely win the game and go 30-5? Whoops, you just guaranteed yourself a net loss of ISK. This is a really good point. Unless you lost those five PRO suits to STD / ADV (but that's a different story) you shouldn't lose ISK. Mercs get paid. [edit] Now I think about this further, there's a flip side. If those 30 kills are on STD / ADV...........proto-stomping will be rewarded with ISK. Would have to address that. Need a delta between suit vs suit fights. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 459	Posted - 2014.12.13 07:40:00 - [122] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Fight tooth and nail in proto to barely win the game and go 30-5? Whoops, you just guaranteed yourself a net loss of ISK. This is a really good point. Unless you lost those five PRO suits to STD / ADV (but that's a different story) you shouldn't lose ISK. Mercs get paid. [edit] Now I think about this further, there's a flip side. If those 30 kills are on STD / ADV...........proto-stomping will be rewarded with ISK. Would have to address that. Need a delta between suit vs suit fights. The assumption here is that this is an argument for the high payout "free for all" game mode. So, I was assuming that the situation was either against gear of a similar caliber or that that one proto player did significantly better than the rest of the team against lower tier gear (as that number of kills would be very difficult against std/adv players if the rest of the team wasn't fighting) and should get a significant amount of the reward as compensation. I probably should have made that a bit clearer in the original post.
SoTa PoP Titans of Phoenix 5326	Posted - 2014.12.13 08:08:00 - [123] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks for the feedback. We will be sure to incorporate it, there are more than one way to skin this cat, and maybe a combination of metalevel and sp is the way to go. I just want to confirm one thing: You're fine with ruining the Risk vs Reward aspect of this game with brackets?.... Implying there is a stable Risk/Reward system to ruin Fight tooth and nail in proto to barely win the game and go 30-5? Whoops, you just guaranteed yourself a net loss of ISK. Meanwhile... Logi on your team spends the entire game farming bluedots for spawn kills and triage (likely the reason the game was a tough win) and goes 0-5 with 2000 WP in std/adv gear? He draws a big chunk of the teams payout and has a net gain for no risk. Sniper on the opposing, losing team goes 5-0 with 500 WP? He probably made more than most of the players on the winning team, zero risk. Yep, great Risk/Reward aspect right there. Dividing the game so that a high payout "null-sec" division of pubs would open up the ability to create an area where payouts are much more directly dependent on winning, kills, WP, and gear destroyed. There would still be risk/reward, but losing some expensive gear wouldn't guarantee a net loss, you would just have to make those losses count for something of greater value than the cost of the materials destroyed. Winning should also be THE MOST significant factor in your ISK payout in such a match, as winning should be the thing which you are taking the risk in order to ultimately obtain. As much as I hate bringing in "lore based" arguments... The NPC corps paying for those contracts would obviously want you to utilize your best resources, and they would want to compensate you for making those resources profitable. Obviously, breaking even or anything below a 2.0 K/D (or an AV/Logistics equivalent) wouldn't be acceptable in proto gear, but it also shouldn't be a flat "lose 4 proto suits and you won't make any profit" either. You mean, turn this more into a generic lobby shooter you can find anywhere else? The risk vs rewards needs to be improved upon - not removed. It's one of the very few things that actually make this a different FPS from every other FPS we already have. Stop trying to dumb this game down further. Brackets or any idea of separating players through value determined by the suit your using is utter nonsense. The newbs need to be train and given a reason to stay - not give them more generic standards of equality when equality doesn't exist. We were supposed to be a part of New Eden - not Disney Land. n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 459	Posted - 2014.12.13 08:33:00 - [124] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: You mean, turn this more into a generic lobby shooter you can find anywhere else? The risk vs rewards needs to be improved upon - not removed. It's one of the very few things that actually make this a different FPS from every other FPS we already have. Stop trying to dumb this game down further. Brackets or any idea of separating players through value determined by the suit your using is utter nonsense. The newbs need to be train and given a reason to stay - not give them more generic standards of equality when equality doesn't exist. We were supposed to be a part of New Eden - not Disney Land. What kind on inane excuse for "logic" did you use to conjure that conclusion from my response? Let me break it down, nice and simple: Now: Lose a lot + Make an even bigger contribution + win/lose (doesn't matter) = Net Loss Lose a little + Make no contribution + win/lose = Net gain Lose a little + Give the illusion of contribution + win/lose = Huge net gain A proper risk/reward system: Lose a lot + Make an equivalent contribution + win = Net gain/break even Lose a lot + Make an equivalent contribution + loss = Net loss Lose a moderate amount + Make a significantly larger contribution + loss = small net loss (close to breaking even, but not quite) Lose a little + make no contribution + win/loss = Net loss (slightly smaller loss for a win) Lose a lot + Make less significant contribution + win/loss = Net loss (Significant net loss for a loss in battle) I don't want happy fun times everybody gets a gold star land, that should have been completely obvious. I will concede that the tiered game modes might not be the best way of going about it, but it isn't necessarily a bad way of implementing it either. A significant contribution should get a significant payout on the winning team. Losers shouldn't get rewarded, they might get compensated partially, but the spoils should go to the victor. That isn't anything like a generic lobby shooter.
CrotchGrab 360 Yon Hyaku Nijuu Moyase 1653	Posted - 2014.12.13 11:53:00 - [125] - Quote Guns for Glory wrote: I came into dust thinking it was like battlefield but when I played my first game it got better! It brought back my memories of MAG! (R.I.P.) so I continued playing and loved it until.....it took me out of the training mission. Then I was thrown in with players that have 6 months plus put into the game. At first I thought I just wasn't used to the game and the aiming so I kept my chin up and pushed on. Now I am 3 weeks in and I know the maps and my aiming is tighter but ow I'm putting a rail rifle clip into an enemy's back to only have them 3 shot me. Pretty unbalanced if you ask me. Plenty of good mmo fps have a skill system but even a new player can do some damage and have fun. Oh and the constant spawn killing is rather annoying. There should be away to play with players only in my range of sp. in general the game has good concepts and fun gameplay but how very unbalanced it is, it realy breaks the game for new players. I realy really want to love this game but I just can't find a reason too. I'm not into wasting 6 months to get enough sp to be able to have some fun. Veterans I understands why you play this game....new players you should just turn around before your ahead unless you have months to use and don't mind gettin slapped around most of your gynnan yes but they don't want to you to not play with proto players because then you won't buy AUR proto suits to compete, it's the mentality they try to induce whilst neglecting the new player experience. all of these problems have never and never will be fixed because of $$$$$$. you won't play with players in your SP range because there is less chance of you buying boosters. why didn't they just charge for this game instead of going the slimy whale monetizing route? DUST VIDEOS
Guns for Glory Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 38	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:55:00 - [126] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Guns for Glory wrote: I came into dust thinking it was like battlefield but when I played my first game it got better! It brought back my memories of MAG! (R.I.P.) so I continued playing and loved it until.....it took me out of the training mission. Then I was thrown in with players that have 6 months plus put into the game. At first I thought I just wasn't used to the game and the aiming so I kept my chin up and pushed on. Now I am 3 weeks in and I know the maps and my aiming is tighter but ow I'm putting a rail rifle clip into an enemy's back to only have them 3 shot me. Pretty unbalanced if you ask me. Plenty of good mmo fps have a skill system but even a new player can do some damage and have fun. Oh and the constant spawn killing is rather annoying. There should be away to play with players only in my range of sp. in general the game has good concepts and fun gameplay but how very unbalanced it is, it realy breaks the game for new players. I realy really want to love this game but I just can't find a reason too. I'm not into wasting 6 months to get enough sp to be able to have some fun. Veterans I understands why you play this game....new players you should just turn around before your ahead unless you have months to use and don't mind gettin slapped around most of your gynnan I think i might remember that name from somewhere.... Valor or SVER maybe... Lmao sver all the way!Liked raven for a challenge so more fun.....I deeply miss mag the best online shooter I have Ever played. Wish they would rerelease it
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 1330	Posted - 2014.12.14 01:59:00 - [127] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards This sounds great but can our average online count sustain splitting matches this much?
Guns for Glory Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 38	Posted - 2014.12.14 02:13:00 - [128] - Quote Robocop Junior wrote: R.I.P MAG! Still nothing has been as gratifying as fixing that barricade just before 18 people could rush in to take the point lol. Vouch this. No other shooter will ever be as intense as 256 ppl in complete tactile warefare
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3566	Posted - 2014.12.14 02:17:00 - [129] - Quote Stick with it....think of it as a hazing. When you get your sp up, then you can **** on the new guy lol. No, but seriously....weekly cap is 750K/week at the moment. If you don't mind spending a little money, you can buy aurum and stack boosters now! This was unheard of when I started playing. Sp is being thrown away nowadays. You can earn millions of sp in one month as opposed to the little bit that we were only able to when Dust came out. It was a grind last year....now it's a free for all. Just play...get into some advanced gear and you'd wreck. > Check RND out here
Megaman Trigger Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 140	Posted - 2014.12.14 02:34:00 - [130] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I can see this happening: Tier 1 - Logistics are locked out because the amount of modules and equipment do not allow them to enter this arena. Tier 2 - Basic and Subpar fittings on Logistics players allowed here. Slayers steamroll over them and are rare if they enter or are even alive in this tier. Tier 3 - Logistics players have no worries of being locked out of this mode. Please allow Logistics players to somehow operate on a lower meta level without allowing them to become "Slayer Logis". I foresee Logistics in Tier 1 resorting to using mostly Militia equipment (which is Meta level 0) rather than being locked out or turned into slayers. Purifier. First Class.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2474	Posted - 2014.12.14 02:57:00 - [131] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Meta level is single digits, with only officer weapons being metal level 10. How is this going to work? I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 470	Posted - 2014.12.14 03:03:00 - [132] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Meta level is single digits, with only officer weapons being metal level 10. How is this going to work? I'm pretty sure those are just placeholders. There's no point in criticizing the details of a concept without any actual details.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2474	Posted - 2014.12.14 05:39:00 - [133] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Meta level is single digits, with only officer weapons being metal level 10. How is this going to work? I'm pretty sure those are just placeholders. There's no point in criticizing the details of a concept without any actual details. People criticized the placeholder stats for the pilot suits before we had any stats on the suits themselves. Unless he plans to up the meta numbers for everything. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Union118 Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 35	Posted - 2014.12.14 05:42:00 - [134] - Quote Guns for Glory wrote: I came into dust thinking it was like battlefield but when I played my first game it got better! It brought back my memories of MAG! (R.I.P.) so I continued playing and loved it until.....it took me out of the training mission. Then I was thrown in with players that have 6 months plus put into the game. At first I thought I just wasn't used to the game and the aiming so I kept my chin up and pushed on. Now I am 3 weeks in and I know the maps and my aiming is tighter but ow I'm putting a rail rifle clip into an enemy's back to only have them 3 shot me. Pretty unbalanced if you ask me. Plenty of good mmo fps have a skill system but even a new player can do some damage and have fun. Oh and the constant spawn killing is rather annoying. There should be away to play with players only in my range of sp. in general the game has good concepts and fun gameplay but how very unbalanced it is, it realy breaks the game for new players. I realy really want to love this game but I just can't find a reason too. I'm not into wasting 6 months to get enough sp to be able to have some fun. Veterans I understands why you play this game....new players you should just turn around before your ahead unless you have months to use and don't mind gettin slapped around most of your gynnan OMG MAG BEST GAME EVER! You have my full attention sir. Starter Fit Suits are OP :-)
voidfaction Nos Nothi 666	Posted - 2014.12.14 11:14:00 - [135] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards This sounds great but can our average online count sustain splitting matches this much? I don't see Tier 1 being hurt much as most of the q-sync proto stompers will all still be there to grief the new, solo, or unorganized players as being organized will be their only advantage left and they are not going to risk their KDR in adv vs adv or proto vs proto matches.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 1039	Posted - 2014.12.14 15:15:00 - [136] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Meta level is single digits, with only officer weapons being metal level 10. How is this going to work? I'm pretty sure those are just placeholders. There's no point in criticizing the details of a concept without any actual details. Dev post already confirmed those are numbers out of thin air. It's an example. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Quasar Storm Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 368	Posted - 2014.12.14 15:34:00 - [137] - Quote Guns for Glory wrote: I came into dust thinking it was like battlefield but when I played my first game it got better! It brought back my memories of MAG! (R.I.P.) so I continued playing and loved it until.....it took me out of the training mission. Then I was thrown in with players that have 6 months plus put into the game. At first I thought I just wasn't used to the game and the aiming so I kept my chin up and pushed on. Now I am 3 weeks in and I know the maps and my aiming is tighter but ow I'm putting a rail rifle clip into an enemy's back to only have them 3 shot me. Pretty unbalanced if you ask me. Plenty of good mmo fps have a skill system but even a new player can do some damage and have fun. Oh and the constant spawn killing is rather annoying. There should be away to play with players only in my range of sp. in general the game has good concepts and fun gameplay but how very unbalanced it is, it realy breaks the game for new players. I realy really want to love this game but I just can't find a reason too. I'm not into wasting 6 months to get enough sp to be able to have some fun. Veterans I understands why you play this game....new players you should just turn around before your ahead unless you have months to use and don't mind gettin slapped around most of your gynnan "Trial by Fire" is the method that has been used in this game for beginners since early uprising. Its never easy & things will go wrong. Keep your head up & keep going. Greatness was never achieved by quitting. You need to join a corp, Get involved with what they do. This is a team-based game & you must count on your brothers, As they will count on you. As you grow into the game, Your interests will change based on what you feel like your end game is. Pubs/FW or PC. You may want to join other corps for just that reason. Also, The forums are good place to ask questions. There really isn't a stupid question for beginners -- So feel free to ask. Its never easy & the beginning is uniquely punishing, However if you continue on -- Its unquestionably rewarding. ADS & Tank pilot. Drifting on *Stormy* Seas. The "Eh" Team
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3315	Posted - 2014.12.14 23:24:00 - [138] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Vell0cet wrote: I think the meta tiered matches really ruin a lot of what makes DUST special and amazing, without actually solving the problems it needs to. The 2nd-tier optional academy mode DOES address the problems, and doesnGÇÖt screw up the game for everyone else. Much respect o7. Edit: A couple more cons with the tiered approach. You're splitting the player base into smaller pools which could really increase queuing times, while the 2nd tier academy only splits it once. Also this would be very hard to balance. Some things may have big advantages in low tiers, and suck at the high tiers. For example, low-end vehicles will be very hard to kill using std AV. This could lead to weird "tiered metas" arising with serious balance problems. Thanks for the feedback. We will be sure to incorporate it, there are more than one way to skin this cat, and maybe a combination of metalevel and sp is the way to go. This is called a learning curve. It happens in every single game that exists with a multiplayer pvp element. You should not design around a learning curve imo. Using meta based matchmaking with a low tier and low risk/reward scenario creates a place where newbies feel like they arent being protostomped. It doesn't matter if there are vets or not, its simply an area where they can learn the mechanics in an environment they perceive is fair. Creating a second academy is an unsustainable idea imo. It is quite possible that there will be times when that queue does not have enough players to fill a match. That may not be today, but its a possibility regardless. Rattati's solution is probably the ideal solution given the circumstances. Don't bring SP into this... you have the academy which exists for a short duration and then allow the players to determine what they want to do. Risk it all on higher tier matches or take it easy in a low meta setup. This maximized player agency and will be the best solution in the long run. It also gives a set of tiers that will generally be filled at all times by the limited player population. Rattati, my suggestion as you move forward with tiered matchmaking is design the higher tiers to be almost exclusively WP to ISK. You do not want to create an environment where people just farm higher meta matches with militia gear simply because the payout is higher. Leave the lower tiers a more socialist style with high amounts of passive SP and low bearing on WP generation so that high performing players feel like they don't want to waste their time in those matches while the higher tiers are all about performance so poor performing players don't find they can maximize isk generation by farming. Also, team deploy in the highest tier of pubs, do it.
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 299	Posted - 2014.12.16 08:08:00 - [139] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: And your own ability keeps you from competing - not your gear. The balance this game has now compared to a year ago is vastly improved. FOTM isn't all dominating - only bad players think so. Sir, you are stuck in a non-actionable mindset (reeks like hell of free-market-ideology). What do you think a game developer can do about the personal abilities of their players? YES absolutely nothing. They have to work with how the world is. What they CAN do, is change the game to fit the players that exist better. If your premise is correct, they could make the most punishing and horrible game in existience, it's all the players fault for not being "gud" enough and not "htfu" enough. If this game then would be shunned by the players, jeez I guess "the players are just not good enough for our game" (would be just stupid to say that). I seriously hope that they are better than that. And from the posts of Rattati I deduct that they are indeed. So YES to anything that has the potential of giving Noobs a fair chance and to keep then in the game. Meta Lock seems like a fine first step, PVE would be too :P And YES to keeping a place for the competetive players to butt their foreheads against each other till the end of time. They are players too and have their own wants and needs for the game. Edit: A good metaphor for thinking about this is the process of learning to swim. You dont just jump into the water and hope for the best. You wont learn anything. You just die and never return. Instead you have to step slowly into ever deeper water and learn gradually. Thats how it works. The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
cray cray FISH Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 10	Posted - 2014.12.16 12:53:00 - [140] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Kalante Schiffer wrote: This game is like survival of the fittest. Who ever makes it the first day or week you pretty much passed the first hurdle. At least that's how i felt and then you start getting better. When i first played dust i deleted the game out of frustration and then re installed it again to give it another try. So i kinda died but revived like Jesus it was cray. Mothafuckin' cray fish. Can confirm, i was there. Catchphrase: "I hate team games, I'm shellfish" World turns away in disgust

Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2396	Posted - 2014.12.16 15:44:00 - [141] - Quote Hansei Kaizen wrote: SoTa PoP wrote: And your own ability keeps you from competing - not your gear. The balance this game has now compared to a year ago is vastly improved. FOTM isn't all dominating - only bad players think so. Sir, you are stuck in a non-actionable mindset (reeks like hell of free-market-ideology). What do you think a game developer can do about the personal abilities of their players? YES absolutely nothing. They have to work with how the world is. What they CAN do, is change the game to fit the players that exist better. If your premise is correct, they could make the most punishing and horrible game in existience, it's all the players fault for not being "gud" enough and not "htfu" enough. If this game then would be shunned by the players, jeez I guess "the players are just not good enough for our game" (would be just stupid to say that). I seriously hope that they are better than that. And from the posts of Rattati I deduct that they are indeed. So YES to anything that has the potential of giving Noobs a fair chance and to keep then in the game. Meta Lock seems like a fine first step, PVE would be too :P And YES to keeping a place for the competetive players to butt their foreheads against each other till the end of time. They are players too and have their own wants and needs for the game. Edit: A good metaphor for thinking about this is the process of learning to swim. You dont just jump into the water and hope for the best. You wont learn anything. You just die and never return. Instead you have to step slowly into ever deeper water and learn gradually. Thats how it works. What you say sounds eminently reasonable, but could easily presage a downhill slide to spoon-fed meaninglessness. In a very real sense DUST, EVE, New Eden occupy a unique niche in gaming, where players are responsible for their own failure and success, where the playing field is not level and definitely not fair, where the uphill slog to viability/relevance will hurt. There are vanishingly few games like that on the market, a few in development that may or may not yield fruit. Accessibility for all sounds like a fine ideal, but in this case it is poison disguised as medicine. In New Eden, players get left behind. Some peeps are not smart enough, tough enough, flat-out stubborn enough to survive here. If we want a game where personal decisions and abilities have meaning it is a price we have to pay. Remove that 'unfairness' and brutality from New Eden and you drive a stake through her heart, she would die literally overnight. One last thing: Every player in this thread who is advocating for the hard core 'HTFU' game experience you see represented in these posts has posted on the quality/failings/necessity of the NPE in DUST. It's not that the NPE or player retention is unimportant, it's that that the commonly accepted industry cure(i.e. making the game softer, more accessible, etc.) destroys the primary value of this game and this virtual universe. As for Rattati's meta-tier proposal, i'm not sure, tbqh. I'd support a limited fixed-term trial of two months. But i am sure of the primary price that we & New Eden will pay for meta-tiers: It breaks up the single shard, it limits the scope and meaning of our shared universe. If EVE is really a social engine that allows peeps to come together and create stories and history and collectively induct meaning into an arbitrary game ruleset, what then is DUST? A lobby shooter where we sever the social connections and separate populations to protect players from the universe that they live in? This no doubt sounds academic and romantic to some, but it isn't. The single shard is the primary reason it's so hard to quit DUST/EVE: it gives our actions meaning. Would rather approach the NPE from a lore-based perspective: how would corporations run cheap everyday business contracts vs. elite bet-the-company contracts? How would this impact player gear and autonomy in suit choice? Maybe if a merc was willing to use the mass-produced company dropsuit(s)/gear they'd get them at a big discount, etc. There's more that one way to skin this kitten ;) PSN: RationalSpark
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 106	Posted - 2014.12.16 16:02:00 - [142] - Quote Vrain Matari .... +1 is not enough. I agree with every single thing you said. Absolutely expresses my sentiments (except perhaps the willingness to do a two month trial ) These are my favorite bits: Quote: One last thing: Every player in this thread who is advocating for the hard core 'HTFU' game experience you see represented in these posts has posted on the quality/failings/necessity of the NPE in DUST. It's not that the NPE or player retention is unimportant, it's that that commonly accepted industry cure(i.e. making the game softer, more accessible, etc.) destroys the primary value of this game and this virtual universe. . . There's more that one way to skin this kitten ;) FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 706	Posted - 2014.12.16 16:30:00 - [143] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards CCP Rattati - PLEASE DON'T IMPLEMENT IT IN THAT FASHION, IT'S ALREADY BROKEN!!!! If you do the above, then the higher skilled people will fit lower "crap" meta-level gear to "farm ISK" from the newbs!!!! SERIOUSLY!!! We've already figured out that the top 3 players on the end of match screen for each team end up with the majority of the ISK payout for the match (as in the top 3 players end up with more than the other 13 players combined in ISK payout). So now if you do the above, I take my 1 year+ vet toon who has level 5's in everything and pick up the militia or free stuff and start ownage on newb players so that I end up on the top 3 spots every match to earn ISK super fast!!! YOU DUNCES YOU ARE MAKING THE PROBLEM WORSE BY DOING WHAT YOU PROPOSE ABOVE, HOW CAN YOU BE SO BLIND TO THE METRICS IN YOUR OWN GAME!?!?!?!?!? You need to instead introduces a metric based on skillpoints, but that would fail because I may have 10+ million SPs into HAV's but I may only have > 1 million into dropsuits/light weapons... So I would get owned in that situation too. You need to NOT do the above or I (and everyone reading this post) will f**king own your new player even more than they are being owned now and you will virtually kill any chances of recruiting new players to the game!!!! Now if you were to assign both meta level pts AND skill level pts associated WITH that loadout (ie. meta 1 = 1pt + skill level 3 = 3 more pts, but have to understand that more than one skill affects stuff on a fitting so will have multiple of those) then use THAT adjusted SP AND MP (meta point) total to come up with an adjusted COMBAT RATING VALUE (CRV) for the character, then you might have something!!! Seriously do that! Add in both the meta of the equipment AND any skills that affect that equipment to come up with and adjusted CRV for that fitting. Then come up with adjusted scales for the above 3 tiers of play and you will have done it righ!!!!
Dubya Guy Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 114	Posted - 2014.12.17 14:39:00 - [144] - Quote See this idea for a possible way to improve the New Player Experience without harming the Old Player Experience. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=184780&find=unread FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5464	Posted - 2014.12.17 18:02:00 - [145] - Quote SoTa PoP wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Thanks for the feedback. We will be sure to incorporate it, there are more than one way to skin this cat, and maybe a combination of metalevel and sp is the way to go. I just want to confirm one thing: You're fine with ruining the Risk vs Reward aspect of this game with brackets?.... I think the idea was for the lower brackets, which have less risk, to also have less reward. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 303	Posted - 2014.12.19 11:51:00 - [146] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: What you say sounds eminently reasonable, but could easily presage a downhill slide to spoon-fed meaninglessness. In a very real sense DUST, EVE, New Eden occupy a unique niche in gaming, where players are responsible for their own failure and success, where the playing field is not level and definitely not fair, where the uphill slog to viability/relevance will hurt. There are vanishingly few games like that on the market, a few in development that may or may not yield fruit. Accessibility for all sounds like a fine ideal, but in this case it is poison disguised as medicine. In New Eden, players get left behind. Some peeps are not smart enough, tough enough, flat-out stubborn enough to survive here. If we want a game where personal decisions and abilities have meaning it is a price we have to pay. Remove that 'unfairness' and brutality from New Eden and you drive a stake through her heart, she would die literally overnight. One last thing: Every player in this thread who is advocating for the hard core 'HTFU' game experience you see represented in these posts has posted on the quality/failings/necessity of the NPE in DUST. It's not that the NPE or player retention is unimportant, it's that that the commonly accepted industry cure(i.e. making the game softer, more accessible, etc.) destroys the primary value of this game and this virtual universe. As for Rattati's meta-tier proposal, i'm not sure, tbqh. I'd support a limited fixed-term trial of two months. But i am sure of the primary price that we & New Eden will pay for meta-tiers: It breaks up the single shard, it limits the scope and meaning of our shared universe. If EVE is really a social engine that allows peeps to come together and create stories and history and collectively induct meaning into an arbitrary game ruleset, what then is DUST? A lobby shooter where we sever the social connections and separate populations to protect players from the universe that they live in? This no doubt sounds academic and romantic to some, but it isn't. The single shard is the primary reason it's so hard to quit DUST/EVE: it gives our actions meaning. Would rather approach the NPE from a lore-based perspective: how would corporations run cheap everyday business contracts vs. elite bet-the-company contracts? How would this impact player gear and autonomy in suit choice? Maybe if a merc was willing to use the mass-produced company dropsuit(s)/gear they'd get them at a big discount, etc. There's more that one way to skin this kitten ;) Absolutely great response. Thank you for that. I agree, there is a fine line to be balanced here. A game like this should be both challenging AND accessible from a mechanical standpoint. Not only that, it needs to bind lore, art-style, mechanics and through that the experience as a whole together. So the "New Eden" experience in FPS form. There should be challenge, there should be a little bit punishment, because New Eden is a harsh place. But New Eden has its Baby Pools too. Not every place is just a black ocean full of sharks, although that is where the fun is I think the answer is somewhere in the Hi-Sec Lo-Sec separation. I just made a thread in the features ideas forum, where we could collect material about this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2521698#post2521698 The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo


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