DUST Search - My 3 week gameplay review.

DUST Fiend wrote:

Vell0cet wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards

I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem.

The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up.

I miss OSG

There is so much right in this in this post,

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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 13406	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:37:00 - [31] - Quote Obviously 100 and 200 are numbers out of thin air "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1106	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:44:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I can see this happening: Tier 1 - Logistics are locked out because the amount of modules and equipment do not allow them to enter this arena. Tier 2 - Basic and Subpar fittings on Logistics players allowed here. Slayers steamroll over them and are rare if they enter or are even alive in this tier. Tier 3 - Logistics players have no worries of being locked out of this mode. Please allow Logistics players to somehow operate on a lower meta level without allowing them to become "Slayer Logis". CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou CIO ("Proto Forum Warrior") Learning Coalition & RTG
Michael Arck 6084	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:46:00 - [33] - Quote Ha! Even this guys knows about the RR and he's new! Man, they nerfed the RR due to community general aggravation with the RR, so I would suggest trying a different weapon. I heard the SCR works wonders. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7413	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:47:00 - [34] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I can see this happening: Tier 1 - Logistics are locked out because the amount of modules and equipment do not allow them to enter this arena. Tier 2 - Basic and Subpar fittings on Logistics players allowed here. Slayers steamroll over them and are rare if they enter or are even alive in this tier. Tier 3 - Logistics players have no worries of being locked out of this mode. Please allow Logistics players to somehow operate on a lower meta level without allowing them to become "Slayer Logis". Fairly interesting assertion. Perhaps a soft-exemption for Equipment? Saaay, 50% reduction in meta-level (assumed)? Long-Term Roadmap More Hard Questions
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7413	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:48:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Alternatively, what's your thoughts on a proposal like this? Long-Term Roadmap More Hard Questions
Monty Mole Clone Ametat Security Amarr Empire 257	Posted - 2014.12.12 02:55:00 - [36] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Kaze Eyrou wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I can see this happening: Tier 1 - Logistics are locked out because the amount of modules and equipment do not allow them to enter this arena. Tier 2 - Basic and Subpar fittings on Logistics players allowed here. Slayers steamroll over them and are rare if they enter or are even alive in this tier. Tier 3 - Logistics players have no worries of being locked out of this mode. Please allow Logistics players to somehow operate on a lower meta level without allowing them to become "Slayer Logis". Fairly interesting assertion. Perhaps a soft-exemption for Equipment? Saaay, 50% reduction in meta-level (assumed)? whats more likely to happen is tier 1 and 2 being ghost towns, meaning business as usual in tier 3 with higher payouts than what we have now, which would defeat the entire purpose of 3 tiers Jupiter's cock! It's a Mark VI... And we've got it by the ass!
X-eon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 102	Posted - 2014.12.12 03:08:00 - [37] - Quote My question is how would fittings be handled? Would I have to delete all my fittings and make then fit the lower meta or would I have to choose a specific amount of suits before I go in? Looking for LAV Pilots and Gunners. Join in game chat channel: LAV Research
Vell0cet OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2663	Posted - 2014.12.12 04:05:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. Best PvE idea ever!
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1408	Posted - 2014.12.12 04:14:00 - [39] - Quote OP reeks of a bitter vet alt, 7/10 for the amount of responses. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2879	Posted - 2014.12.12 04:25:00 - [40] - Quote Edau Skir2 wrote: I'm 5 weeks old, just broke the 3.3mil sp mark, and have 2084 kills to my name, with about 500 less deaths. Trust me buddy, stick at it. It's all the finer nuances that get you, Rails are horrible against armor, and even more so if you're putting it into the back of a hybrid-resistant proto sentinel. It gets addictive. Oh so addictive. Oh god why the hell are you part of Duna corp, they have an insane tax rate, don't they? "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 1213	Posted - 2014.12.12 04:38:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Obviously 100 and 200 are numbers out of thin air Why not make it easy on yourself and just make the game modes restricted to STD, ADV, and Proto so that you get the intended effect of meta level balanced game modes without gimping logistics players who automatically would have super sub-standard fits. Also you would have to find a meta level system that works with vehicles too, which would be very delicate trying to create a balanced system between tanks, LAVs and dropships when they all have such varying fitting ideologies while using the same modules. Just limit everything to STD, ADV, and Proto and bypass all of that. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
voidfaction Nos Nothi 664	Posted - 2014.12.12 04:49:00 - [42] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Obviously 100 and 200 are numbers out of thin air I would hope so as my main STD fitting has a total meta of 20
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 845	Posted - 2014.12.12 06:42:00 - [43] - Quote This game is like survival of the fittest. Who ever makes it the first day or week you pretty much passed the first hurdle. At least that's how i felt and then you start getting better. When i first played dust i deleted the game out of frustration and then re installed it again to give it another try. So i kinda died but revived like Jesus it was cray. AE.
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 15505	Posted - 2014.12.12 07:00:00 - [44] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. I miss OSG There is so much right in this in this post, Flight Academy coming soon(tm) to my YouTube WoD 514
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 15506	Posted - 2014.12.12 07:10:00 - [45] - Quote On second thought though, you can still use garbage gear in tier 3, so you may get facerolled but youll get paid well for it. Different tiers are still being used, there just needs to be more incentive to win, so that you feel it more, win or lose. Flight Academy coming soon(tm) to my YouTube WoD 514
Edau Skir2 duna corp 76	Posted - 2014.12.12 08:07:00 - [46] - Quote If you want to balance the game so you don't get vets against new players, then make matchmaking lobbies based on sp levels, e.g. Matches with players who have under 1.5mil, and then only players who have 1.5mil to 3mil, and so on. Won't need to be too many, I'm over 3 mil now, and I hold my own against the proto stomp.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3350	Posted - 2014.12.12 08:23:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards And after that, you will do this? EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet". My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3350	Posted - 2014.12.12 08:24:00 - [48] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: This game is like survival of the fittest. Who ever makes it the first day or week you pretty much passed the first hurdle. At least that's how i felt and then you start getting better. When i first played dust i deleted the game out of frustration and then re installed it again to give it another try. So i kinda died but revived like Jesus it was cray. Mothafuckin' cray fish. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet". My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 1035	Posted - 2014.12.12 08:51:00 - [49] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. I miss OSG There is so much right in this in this post, Tend to agree, but not sure the optional academy mode option should be a replacement for this one. All that really does is extend academy...though it might help the NPE. Is there some solution to the initial idea? If KDR is so precious to some, would it be as precious if a stat on the meta-level difference of the suits were also listed? For example, if I'm a KDR-***** and love my 6 KDR, would my approach change if a "Hard Target" stat of 0.6 was against my name as well? This would mean I'm stomping in some way shape or form. Overall we're also at the problem of are there enough players playing to split the battles like this? Whether there are or not, if the OP's experience is common, we've a catch-22 problem. Maybe we should stop worrying about critical mass in the player base preventing some of these ideas. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
nicholas73 Glitched Connection 317	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:07:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Now just give us some more fitting space and its gonna be perfect. Proud member of Glitched Connection "Only idiots start a fight they can't win" - Sora (No Game No Life)
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1580	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:07:00 - [51] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Overall we're also at the problem of are there enough players playing to split the battles like this? Whether there are or not, if the OP's experience is common, we've a catch-22 problem. Maybe we should stop worrying about critical mass in the player base preventing some of these ideas. THIS is the biggest concern. Otherwise this tiered matchmaking would be quite doable and a good thing. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3354	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:20:00 - [52] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: This is why tiers must die. I completely disagree. Its why we need a second-tier optional academy mode for people under 5 mill SP, it's not the gear, it's map knowledge, teamwork, tactics, knowledge of game mechanics, etc. All of it gives the vet a massive advantage over the new player. The problem isn't the differences in gear (which makes the game unique and interesting via risk/reward) its that new players are being pushed into the greater player base before they've had a chance to get the skills, knowledge, experience, social connections, team tactics etc. Where they can actually be competitive. CCP should aim for elegant solutions. Meta level locking is one. The other elegant solution is tiericide, just like I propose it. It will make new players more useful from the get go. If you dont agree that SP is giving a huge advantage (due to dropsuit slots increasing, increased CPU/PG), I have two questions for you: 1. Do you even Dust? 2. Do you even lift? EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet". My PS3: http://imgur.com/a/5O8ok
SoTa PoP Titans of Phoenix 5269	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:31:00 - [53] - Quote This is so full of BS I can't believe people are buying it. Most of the 'vets' don't even use proto in pubs - they use BPO STD gear. It hardly costs ANY SP AT ALL to get. The problem is he has no idea how to allocate his SP so he ends up with some toon that isn't prepared for what's coming. Acedemy isn't training people to do anything. It needs to be expanded With options to play with the 'big boys' to allow players with under 5mil to continue to play there. That gives them breathing room to explore and learn on there own since CCP refuse to teach them. And when they want to go test themselves with the rest of us - they can. And when it turns bad then can go running back to the safety of acdemy. This means, ofc, you'll have to rethink a few things - but you'll find this system a lot more friendly to our environment then this TERRIBLE idea of brackets. It's bad enough you ruined part of this game by allowing respecs. We get it - this game isn't EvE or tied to it anymore, so it's not a part of the 'harsh environment where choices matter' But at least keep some aspects of the real game we wanted around. Shesh. Also: Not enough players. lol n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++ I watch anime for the plot
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1580	Posted - 2014.12.12 09:38:00 - [54] - Quote Also a smaller issue, this (link) needs to be implemented unless you want playerbase to never try differents modes - or slash their wrists. Killface Hunt Posted about fitting limits and folders People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 296	Posted - 2014.12.12 10:17:00 - [55] - Quote Guns for Glory wrote: I came into dust thinking it was like battlefield but when I played my first game it got better! It brought back my memories of MAG! (R.I.P.) so I continued playing and loved it until.....it took me out of the training mission. Then I was thrown in with players that have 6 months plus put into the game. At first I thought I just wasn't used to the game and the aiming so I kept my chin up and pushed on. Now I am 3 weeks in and I know the maps and my aiming is tighter but ow I'm putting a rail rifle clip into an enemy's back to only have them 3 shot me. Pretty unbalanced if you ask me. Plenty of good mmo fps have a skill system but even a new player can do some damage and have fun. Oh and the constant spawn killing is rather annoying. There should be away to play with players only in my range of sp. in general the game has good concepts and fun gameplay but how very unbalanced it is, it realy breaks the game for new players. I realy really want to love this game but I just can't find a reason too. I'm not into wasting 6 months to get enough sp to be able to have some fun. Veterans I understands why you play this game....new players you should just turn around before your ahead unless you have months to use and don't mind gettin slapped around most of your gynnan This reads remarkably like my first forum postings :D Yeah, seems its still like this The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5724	Posted - 2014.12.12 11:05:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Obviously 100 and 200 are numbers out of thin air I want into the FFA meta unlocked matches please. Tens of millions of SP... nothing but Quafe. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 387	Posted - 2014.12.12 11:10:00 - [57] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Whenever you can, please do this! PLEASE!! So this is like deadspace in Eve ,You get there from a acceleration Gate

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 13472	Posted - 2014.12.12 13:39:00 - [58] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards I have a lot of respect for you and the work youGÇÖve done, but I think this is a VERY WRONG approach. Having tiered gear is only useful because other people are using different tiers (risk/reward). If everyone is using the same tier of gear in a given match, then it defeats the purpose of having tiers at all. It seriously devalues the RPG aspects of the game. YouGÇÖll still have vets playing in the low bracket GÇ£STD-stompingGÇ¥ with organized squads to max their K/D, ruining the experience of the new players youGÇÖre trying to protect. YouGÇÖre solving the wrong problem. The real problem is that youGÇÖre including new players and vets in the same matches. Meta-based matches don't solve this. The gear differences are a symptom, not the cause. An infinitely better solution is a 2nd-tier, optional academy mode. This would be available to all players under some SP threshold (around 5 mill SPGÇöbut open to debate). IGÇÖve written about it here. IGÇÖd really love to hear why matches tiered by meta levels of gear is a better solution for new players getting destroyed and giving up. SP is absolutely not a measure of "fps skill". The vets will be on equal ground in STD gear. Then there is no "proto" stomping. And an equal amount of good players on each side. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

RayRay James Titans of Phoenix 807	Posted - 2014.12.12 13:41:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: SP is absolutely not a measure of "fps skill". The vets will be on equal ground in STD gear. Then there is no "proto" stomping. And an equal amount of good players on each side. I'm living proof of that statement
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 5581	Posted - 2014.12.12 13:53:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We are working on metalevel brackets of gameplay, imagine a WoW dungeon only in reverse. Tier 1 - no fittings above 100 (sum of all equipment on the fitting) - average rewards Tier 2 - no fittings above 200 - high rewards Tier 3 - free for all - very high rewards Why even have tiers at all? Just tiericide every dropsuit and be done with it. Leave modules and weapons in their current state, make every dropsuit the proto version of itself. Less need for a tiered system with this in place. My advice to you, playa...

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