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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Dubya Guy
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
87
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Posted - 2014.12.12 15:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Background: I currently have around 13M skillpoints and have been playing daily for a little over 5 months. I am in a stable, mid-sized growing corp, but I squad with players outside my corp at least as often. I suppose I have made about 1M skillpoint GÇ£mistakesGÇ¥  , and am happy that respec is an option though I have elected not to use it.
I am not convinced that this is as serious of a problem as some say. Do I sometimes get GÇ£stompedGÇ¥  in a match where the reds have a squad or two of coordinated proto-running players? Absolutely. I dread those matches. But I have learned to identify them and switch to an ISK-conserving mode of survival (some folks ditch the match, but I donGÇÖt). The life of a mercenary means the odds aren't always even  . Occasionally I have been surprised to see my team making a comeback, or I spot a flaw in the stomper tactics, and I gear back up. On rare occasions, we have pulled out a surprising win. It is those rare occasions I am MOST proud of. They motivate me in future battles not to gear-down as quickly. It is THOSE battles I like to brag about  . Even more so than the battles that seemed to be evenly matched all the way through!
As a new-ish player, it gave me a visible, tangible view of players and gear that I could aspire to. Actually SEEING a shotgunner physically leap over me and shoot me in the back, or watching a heavy sprint faster than his Logi  , made me want to get more skillpoints and try those things myself. Call it gear envy, hero worship, whatever, but without seeing these things in person, so to speak, itGÇÖs all just disorganized numbers and incomprehensible jargon buried in a convoluted menu system  . Without randomized oponents, the game would seem more like a gentlemanly aiming/shooting contest where everyone was assigned the same brand of gun.
If all battles were more GÇ£equalizedGÇ¥ I wouldnGÇÖt be as proud about any particular victory. I may not have as many lows, but also my highs wouldnGÇÖt be as high. So I think there is some game value in battles where there is randomness in players having different GÇ£tiersGÇ¥ of gear and skillpoint-enabled options. I recognize this as gamblerGÇÖs psychology, which I typically eschew. I also recognize this places me in the distinct minority opinion, particularly for one who never runs proto suits in pubs. This is just my experience and personal opinion. DonGÇÖt hate me Spectral. 
PS. IMO PCs serve as the all-gear-and-skillpoint-equivalent contests of skill. They can be improved, but what can't?
FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
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Dubya Guy
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
88
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Posted - 2014.12.12 15:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:
Gear differences are a big part of why new players cant compete. Stop acting like running in a squad is some kind of magical skill multiplier.
Oh, but it IS a multiplier. And best of all, it is FREE. It costs no isk, and requires no SP investment. Your skill is multiplied because a) you can take advantage of tactical in-battle communication to multiply the effectiveness of your existing skills, and b) you learn from others so your skills will improve faster.
Teaching and encouraging new players to squad with more experienced players would absolutely multiply their skill.
FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
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Dubya Guy
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
88
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Posted - 2014.12.12 16:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Dubya Guy wrote:Vesta Opalus wrote:
Gear differences are a big part of why new players cant compete. Stop acting like running in a squad is some kind of magical skill multiplier.
Oh, but it IS a multiplier. And best of all, it is FREE. It costs no isk, and requires no SP investment. Your skill is multiplied because a) you can take advantage of tactical in-battle communication to multiply the effectiveness of your existing skills, and b) you learn from others so your skills will improve faster. Teaching and encouraging new players to squad with more experienced players would absolutely multiply their skill. Which experienced players don't want to do, because scrubs. And not everybody has a Bluetooth.
Noted, and you are right on both points, Meeko. But, I think my point is still valid that IF you find a way to squad with folks at least a little more experienced than yourself, and IF you have the ability to hear your squadmates, your skills can improve faster than if you only play sans squad. The fact that it costs no ISK or SP is the "magical" part.
It is absolutely possible to git gud playing by yourself. Some folks detest the social interactions of squadding, corps, etc. I can understand that. But if you are primarily concerned with how long it takes to learn a game, there is no better learning-curve-flattener, IMO, than to learn it from those who've already played it. CCP has given us squads and corps to facilitate this.
FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
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Dubya Guy
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
92
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Posted - 2014.12.12 19:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vesta Opalus, It seems like your team chat vs squad experiences have been the inverse of mine.
Vesta Opalus wrote:I do agree though that having new players squad with experienced players could help alot (maybe a daily mission/reward framework based around this kind of mentoring would be a great thing to add to dust)
What a cool idea!
FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
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Dubya Guy
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
95
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Posted - 2014.12.12 20:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Funkmaster Whale wrote:A new player that joins the game and sees a tank or dropship decimating his team isn't going to have any idea how to effectively kill it. A new player isn't going to know how to get rid of uplinks in areas that are only reachable by dropship. These are the types of things new players suffer from....
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The people who go around claiming "protostomping" is the problem are merely suffering from confirmation bias. They believe that proto gear is the reason they die when it's actually organization and squad cohesiveness that they get dominated by.
This^
But I am not convinced it is all that big of a turn-away for people. Or rather, it turns people away who are really looking for a different kind of game, something other than a collaborative tactical shooter. Game advantages obtained from organization, squad cohesiveness, terrain and advanced tactics knowledge...these are POSITIVES of Dust. If something is lacking, it is in the education of new and potential players about how important these aspects of the game are.
FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
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Dubya Guy
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
96
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Posted - 2014.12.12 21:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote:Spectral Clone wrote:This is why tiers must die. No tiericide scrub, get better.
OMG. You are calling Spectral Clone a scrub? and telling him to get better!?
Nietzches, I generally agree with your sentiments about this thread, but you might win more support for your viewpoint if you saved ridiculous chest thumping and name-calling for the The War Room. If anyone's a scrub here and needs to get better, it's me, and I disagree with Spectral, an admittedly better and more experienced player than myself, at the considered risk of making a fool of myself by doing so.
FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
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Dubya Guy
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
106
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Posted - 2014.12.16 16:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vrain Matari .... +1 is not enough. I agree with every single thing you said. Absolutely expresses my sentiments (except perhaps the willingness to do a two month trial  )
These are my favorite bits:
Quote:One last thing: Every player in this thread who is advocating for the hard core 'HTFU' game experience you see represented in these posts has posted on the quality/failings/necessity of the NPE in DUST. It's not that the NPE or player retention is unimportant, it's that that commonly accepted industry cure(i.e. making the game softer, more accessible, etc.) destroys the primary value of this game and this virtual universe.
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There's more that one way to skin this kitten ;)
FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
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Dubya Guy
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
114
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Posted - 2014.12.17 14:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
See this idea for a possible way to improve the New Player Experience without harming the Old Player Experience.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=184780&find=unread
FPS = First Person Support. Kills win battles but it's kinda hard to kill if you're dead and out of ammo.
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