DUST Search - CCP and the CPM failed hard

Derrith Erador wrote:

Derpty Derp wrote:

Because math differs to practical use... Yes IF the ads and the av player do everything at the exact first possible moment it all counts for nothing, but in practice that doesn't happen, people have to fly, move and aim (among other things.)

An extra anything is going to help in certain rare circumstances, be it against another dropship and LAV getting into the redzone... An infantry player running into a building... Or just maybe you didn't fly perfectly and ended up pointing the sight at the guy just slightly before you could have fired with lvl 4.

"in certain rare circumstances". i can safely assure you that i haven't ran across any situations where my ROF saved me. i've had situations where my shield recharge saved me, where my core grid management saved me, and where my shield tanking has saved me. aside from that, you answered this question before, saying you had level 3, and wouldn't even bother touching it. did something change?


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Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 560	Posted - 2014.10.21 14:17:00 - [1] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: So I have been flying dropships for 2 days. And the CPM and CCP should be ashamed of themselves. Me included. I apologize to pilots. I let you down. The ADS is useless. We can't even make a tank scared now. My missiles fire so slowly i'm just a noise in the air, nothing more. We tried to show the evidence to CCP, we tried to manage balance but the anti vehicles guys could not let their lack of experience and knowledge stop them from sticking their ignorant fingers into the mix. Killing a Milita dropship in a proto ship is a 5 minute fight. Killing tanks is impossible unless they forget the redline exists. Round two; gloves off. I disagree. a lot... The missiles are fine, why should we destroy a tank or a standard dropship in 5 seconds? Is your problem with the Python missile bonus or also with the Incubus rail bonus, because I'll be honest, dropping a Python without overheating was kind of boring in my eyes... Now at least you have to think about when to fire instead of just holding the button down spraying everywhere. The small rail overheat is an issue, but the RoF is not, slower is more interesting as it gives people a chance to react. I've made some nice kills against vehicles and AV during Delta, swarms are still broken (but they have been since you called for a buff without telling them they needed fixing first) but all in all I quite like the way things are going. 5 minute fight is a massive exaggeration... Keep in mind if dropships are able to pew pew infantry, they will cry and then av will get another chuffing buff because "If you can kill fast, they need to be able to as well."
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 561	Posted - 2014.10.21 14:25:00 - [2] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: popcorn runs out ''Why can't I take an ADS to solo clear the AV infesting that point???'' - If the answer to this question is .. A. Because you must Git Gud B. Coz AV is mad OP C. That AV is meant to blow you up - stay away until they are engaged or cleared - One of those earns you a cookie. You forgot option D... Squash them with a Gorgon. T_____T He called me a scrub when I did that.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 561	Posted - 2014.10.21 14:42:00 - [3] - Quote True Adamance wrote: - Re-designation of the roles of Turrets by making Large Turrets all adhere to the slow tracking high power weapons they should be. I would like 1 of 2 things for tanks... Either make the turret manned by a second person, or just make the turrets facing independent of the tank, like the small turret on the back of an LAV... Then you'd have to think about positioning and where you're going, rather than just " hey something drove past me, quick 180 and boom! it's dead." The second option is better as it makes small turrets more useful, whereas the first option puts the final nail in the coffin for them.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 569	Posted - 2014.10.22 15:25:00 - [4] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I used to log in for the joy of exploding vehicles. It's not as fun anymore. The vehicles feel less a threat and more a chore right now for me. Dunno how others feel. But I miss marauders in all of their horrible glory. I could argue that you are a seasoned AV player who has been wrecking vehicles since Moses wore short-shorts. Your feelings can't be used to judge the overall feeling of AV. So we're pitting nooby AV vs Seasoned Pilots for balance? That sounds fair. Example my father decided he wanted to pilot because he saw me flying one... The point being he can't hit bugger all and doesn't always know which direction he's moving in... He's a little better a few months on, but he still struggles to hit a stationary target and his landing usually ends in death... Killar-12 wrote: Look, I can see what DSes, HAVs, LAVs, FGs, AV nades, REs, PMs, PLCs, and SLs are supposed to do, but ADSes only one person has tried to define and poorly at that, so what are ADSes suppoed to do? AV or Infantry? Suppression or Attack? Suppression covers it pretty much, stops people running out in the open while they're flying about. A good Forge gunner got the job done before Charlie, but because no one else wanted to spec into something that didn't allow them to free-farm (hi scouts and heavys that get just as good K/D as ads) swarms got buffed so non skilled AV becomes worthless & there's no longer an AV/V battle instead it's either V farms infantry or AV farms V. No strategy, no struggle, just I win or you win & mine costs less. Vehicles out in the open you suppress them back into the red zone or somewhere they can cover, or when a decent missile tanker is about (rare) it's just until you maneuver to a shot on the dropship and then game over. Why is there a limit of 5 vehicles? If no one bothers to bring any out anymore. There's why infantry got farmed, no one ever brings out enough vehicles on both teams to create an actual vehicle battle... So the vehicles find something else to do (& frankly I find farming infantry with a vehicle to be boring as hell... so give someone a reason to pull a vehicle against me!!!)
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 574	Posted - 2014.10.24 14:09:00 - [5] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Rather than increase the RoF bonus, I think that Missile turrets should have their own RoF looked at, since they weren't really a threat on anything but an ADS before, and now can only hit people that are oblivious to the fact that they're getting shot at. Personally, I would also like to see Turret variants brought back into the game. While the current missiles seem reasonable for killing infantry given that in most cases you can drop a suit in one shot, they are completely worthless against vehicles. A higher RoF missile with very little splash damage could help the Python be useful against vehicles again. However, I would like to point out that the Incubus with a Small Railgun suddenly feels amazing. Even with the bonus reduced so far, the changes made to Small Rails mean that I can drop a Soma in a single magazine, and I've been working on improving my aim so I can go back to killing tanks. I have a top missile turret on my multi-turret tank & it's always been effective for everything from clearing low roof av to helping down another tank and even fending off pesky dropships... With an ads the missile turret is great as AV as well as infantry, downing an LAV has always and still is easier with the missiles, shooting enemies out of side turrets is also a lot easier (although I miss blaster turrets during Charlie as that was more entertaining, lol.) Downing a tank is also very easy, even though everyone wants to be able to drop them without reloading, which is just plain stupid considering how few places there are for a tank to hide from aerial assault. I do agree that the small rails are nice though.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 595	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:08:00 - [6] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: why should I skill level 5 ROF if it's not going to, mathematically, help me in any way. Because math differs to practical use... Yes IF the ads and the av player do everything at the exact first possible moment it all counts for nothing, but in practice that doesn't happen, people have to fly, move and aim (among other things.) An extra anything is going to help in certain rare circumstances, be it against another dropship and LAV getting into the redzone... An infantry player running into a building... Or just maybe you didn't fly perfectly and ended up pointing the sight at the guy just slightly before you could have fired with lvl 4. MEDICO RITARDATO wrote: #CRYBABYTHREAD Now give me likes. Te Sbundo!
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 597	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:07:00 - [7] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Because math differs to practical use... Yes IF the ads and the av player do everything at the exact first possible moment it all counts for nothing, but in practice that doesn't happen, people have to fly, move and aim (among other things.) An extra anything is going to help in certain rare circumstances, be it against another dropship and LAV getting into the redzone... An infantry player running into a building... Or just maybe you didn't fly perfectly and ended up pointing the sight at the guy just slightly before you could have fired with lvl 4. "in certain rare circumstances". i can safely assure you that i haven't ran across any situations where my ROF saved me. i've had situations where my shield recharge saved me, where my core grid management saved me, and where my shield tanking has saved me. aside from that, you answered this question before, saying you had level 3, and wouldn't even bother touching it. did something change? It's RoF, it's offensive it helps you get an extra shot in sooner rather than later, it's not meant to keep you alive like regen/hp/hardeners/movespeed... I also said I wasn't going above lvl 3 before when it was 50% so no, still no changes. Unless you're asking that the base fire rate of small turrets be reduced simply so that people with high sp can still have an advantage over everyone else (including other vehicles, which get no bonus for anything) then yes I might have to get to lvl 5 if I'm not interested in branching out into many different roles as I currently do, which for many lvl 3 is sufficient. I also don't have proficiency in small turrets (heck only missiles are above lvl 3 opperation, for everything else there's loyalty points.) I don't have more than lvl 3 ads skill (what is it 2 or 3% damage for small turrets? who needs it.) or assult rifle proficiency above lvl 3... They're all very small bonuses that really only give you a meaningless advantage over other people doing the same thing... Are you sure being able to fire slightly faster than another dropship or Tank/LAV fitted with small missile turret hasn't helped you at all and wont in the future?
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 597	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:13:00 - [8] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: No, it doesn't run counter to anything I've said. You simply aren't comprehending what I am explaining. I will try one more time. You can base ISK cost on effectiveness. You cannot base effectiveness on ISK cost. You realise the two are not independent of each other right? Also the effectiveness of AV is now balanced the same as the effectiveness of vehicles... So tanks/ads need a price drop to be in line with other proto suits.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 599	Posted - 2014.10.29 19:43:00 - [9] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: You are assuming tanks and ADSes are equivalent in effectiveness as proto suits. Fair enough, comparing a suit and a vehicle on anything other than kdr (which is about the same, since you get matches where an ads noob dies more than he kills and an infantry player can go 30 + for 1 or even 0 deaths... Plus the complete opposite for both...) But how about you compare a 350k ads with missile launcher to a 20k blaster LAV... You wanna tell me the LAV doesn't plow infantry with ease, while actually having an easier time of avoiding those pesky swarms? Edit- This is ignoring the whole LAV rail sniper, who can actually sit well out of range while popping headshots into an objective among other areas.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 601	Posted - 2014.10.29 21:50:00 - [10] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: @ Derp, ROF is for helping you kill, this is true. but in this repect, it also helps you survive. case in point, two people are in battle, both weapons do the same damage, and their builds are the same, but one persons ROF is a little better. who wins? but on to my point. i'm not asking for a higher raw ROF for turrets, i'm asking that our ROF per level be noticeable for it's (not 10%, don't get your panties in a bunch). on movement, the only place i've been able to accurately factor that in is ADS vs maddy, and that's because of the back and forth technique (buys min 4 seconds), so not really. and the problem i have there is missiles is anti armor, and max ROF can't break the rep cycles of dropsuits/tanks. we're only a threat to idiot tankers. and on you not having any sort of need to devote yourself to a role, am i the only the one with an issue on this? not trying to criticize, but not needing to devote yourself to a role is kind of stupid to me. My point on movement was actually based on the path of the dropship + where you can possibly position the sight along that flight path against the running/wobbling/bunnyhopping of infantry, where by I have personally had moments where a shot just a fraction of a second earlier would have hit the target, but I couldn't so I had to move round and wait a little while longer allowing the infantry guy time to run to cover or even for some av/tank/whatever to start shooting. point being 10%, 15%, 50% or even 2%... No matter the number there will always be something to gain no matter how small or even unnoticeable it may seem. Now this is a bonus that doesn't fit with any dropsuit, the dropsuit bonus is comparable to the ads bonus of 2% small turret damage. Personally I'd suggest making this a racial turret fitting bonus for getting more turrets on. This is because to get any fitting bonus currently as an ads pilot, you have to waste time on small turret proficiency, which does absolutely jack for anyone... Although if it worked would be nice for the gunners (who wouldn't have to waste their time on the racial ads bonus, this should get refunded especially for those people who have been forced to spec into multiple things they don't need just to get bonuses required for their dedicated position.) Rep Maddys are a bane to a pilot for sure, but they aren't quite what they used to be, a forge gunner or another tanker will rip them to shreds now, I'm not 100% sure, but if you hit the weak spot enoughand/or fit a damage mod (crazy I know because swarms are bullshit if you don't currently use specific fits) it might actually drop. I know most of the Madruga's I see don't fit full reps and take quite a bit of killing from any source (but can be killed.) Shield tanks on the other hand are easy pickings if they don't make use of maneuverability.