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Can we PLEASE do something about tanked scouts?

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Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 605	Posted - 2014.10.05 20:49:00 - [1] - Quote 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
Atiim 12755	Posted - 2014.10.05 20:55:00 - [2] - Quote How dare you suggest that I have to sacrifice something!? The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4605	Posted - 2014.10.05 20:56:00 - [3] - Quote It was out of hand between 1.8 and Charlie. Now it is a minor annoyance, with many slayers finding the Assaults preferable when playing the role. You can always tell a Millford Minja
valad II NoGameNoLife 213	Posted - 2014.10.05 20:56:00 - [4] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4606	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:00:00 - [5] - Quote valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano Or he could just squad with someone who has a scout with some precision so they show up on his tacnet and can't sneak up on him. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 605	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:02:00 - [6] - Quote Why should it, the Rail rifle doesn't exchange anything for being long range, the bolt pistol exchanges nothing for being long range and insanely high damaging, and the scout suit is just insane at everything, at the same time. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 605	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:03:00 - [7] - Quote valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano Best counter is the counter itself eh? "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4606	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:06:00 - [8] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano Best counter is the counter itself eh? He was suggesting an untanked scout, but really, you could just use an active scanner if you didn't want to rely on a scout, because tanking that much means a dampening sacrifice. You can always tell a Millford Minja
valad II NoGameNoLife 214	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:07:00 - [9] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano Best counter is the counter itself eh? For that situation probably. It is best to move undected. Unless you run into a gal logi running proto scanner.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 606	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:12:00 - [10] - Quote IF the best way to counter a scout is to use a scout... well then there is a problem. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those

shaman oga S.W.A.G. of J.E.B.U.S. 2905	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:16:00 - [11] - Quote I haven't many problem with tanked scouts, i have more problem with non-tanked ones. BTW, i agree, tank module should increase hitbox. Each suit can have a fixed value which represent their hitbox another number which represent maximum delta between their hitbox without tank and their hitbox at full tank, the bigger is this number the more the hitbox can be raised. Scout would have a greater number, assault a medium number and heavies a little number because their hitbox is already large and their role imply tanking (generally). PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
howard sanchez 965	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:18:00 - [12] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: IF the best way to counter a scout is to use a scout... well then there is a problem. Funny, I thought that was what the op was proposing...limiting the variety of how drop suits can be fitted. ...
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3570	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:22:00 - [13] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: It was out of hand between 1.8 and Charlie. Now it is a minor annoyance, with many slayers finding the Assaults preferable when playing the role. Devoted assault merc here. Still not seeing very much reason for playing an assault instead of scout. Same weapon options, two equipment slots, smaller hitbox, much faster walk/sprint speeds, faster stamina regen, vastly superior ewar, cloaking bonuses. Cons: smaller intial eHP. The assault dropsuit passives are good on the Amarr, mediorce on the Caldari and Minmatar, and right next to silly on the Gallente. I'm not asking for scouts to be nerfed. I just want them balanced to be better at their recon/hacking role and assaults be better at mobile fireteam tactics. My advice to you, playa...
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 607	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:37:00 - [14] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: IF the best way to counter a scout is to use a scout... well then there is a problem. Funny, I thought that was what the op was proposing...limiting the variety of how drop suits can be fitted. So, I guess that mean you conceed the point, as I see no argument against scouts being the very best suit for: Dampening Precision Scan Range Sprint Speed Jumping Walking speed Terran mobility Endurance Shield Regen Hitbox Fitting versatility Cloaking Oh and they do the same amount of damage as: Logistics Assaults Basic Suits Anything else using light weapons (commandos aside) With the same or more equipment slots than: Amarr logi Assaults Commandos Sentinels Basic suits Oh, but they have less HP....... maybe. Of course If you figure HP/hitbox volume I bet that they are among the best. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
Magnus Amadeuss Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1123	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:39:00 - [15] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: One Eyed King wrote: It was out of hand between 1.8 and Charlie. Now it is a minor annoyance, with many slayers finding the Assaults preferable when playing the role. Devoted assault merc here. Still not seeing very much reason for playing an assault instead of scout. Same weapon options, two equipment slots, smaller hitbox, much faster walk/sprint speeds, faster stamina regen, vastly superior ewar, cloaking bonuses. Cons: smaller intial eHP. The assault dropsuit passives are good on the Amarr, mediorce on the Caldari and Minmatar, and right next to silly on the Gallente. I'm not asking for scouts to be nerfed. I just want them balanced to be better at their recon/hacking role and assaults be better at mobile fireteam tactics. No, people need to stop saying the amarr assault has a good bonus. The amarr assault allows you to use the scrambler and laser... otherwise those weapons are horrible. The amarr assault should not be the only suit in the game that can use those weapons. Fixing swarms
farmer 88 Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:39:00 - [16] - Quote a higher movement speed penalty for scouts fitting armor plate moduels. btw caldari hitbox wtf. this logi is getting lonely with this being the age of the scout, 80% of the battle field is scouts because its the most effective role. why have choices if all but one sucks. 07
Bax Zanith 199	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:16:00 - [17] - Quote Iv been comparing each races assault stats to its scout stats. There are three things the assault dos better than the scout, shield, armor and melee damage (Gscout has more melee than Gassault). Everything ells belongs to scouts. I still have more work to do before I can say for sure if the scout can do the assault's job or not. That is, if any of you care for balance enough to lend a hand. They didn't die from the cold without They died from the cold within. - James Patrick Kinney
hfderrtgvcd 651	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:20:00 - [18] - Quote An assault will beat a tanked scout of equal skill every single time. Its a different story if the scout uses ewar and a shotgun You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 492	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:26:00 - [19] - Quote valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano So when everyone cried about the main dropship counter being another dropship...
valad II NoGameNoLife 218	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:33:00 - [20] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano So when everyone cried about the main dropship counter being another dropship... That argument doesn't even make sense. I never heard that. Dropships can be countered by any numerous AV tactics. Forges are my favorite. Swarms are pretty fun now.

Vicious Minotaur 1195	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:39:00 - [21] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano So when everyone cried about the main dropship counter being another dropship... The whole "counter to something is itself" dilemma gets a wrench thrown into it when you realize that in order for that to apply here, in this contex, vlad II would have had to recommend a 700+ eHP scout. I could be wrong, but damps/kincats/precision mods do not modify HP values (you know, with them being biotics and eWAR mods instead of shields/armour). And last time I checked... Tanked scout =/= Completely untanked scout. Unless, of course, one places all scouts as being equal, regardless of DUSTs entire fitting system. But then that begs the question as to why one would single out a specific scout fitting, when fittings are irrelevant... I am a minotaur.
valad II NoGameNoLife 218	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:45:00 - [22] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano So when everyone cried about the main dropship counter being another dropship... The whole "counter to something is itself" dilemma gets a wrench thrown into it when you realize that in order for that to apply here, in this contex, vlad II would have had to recommend a 700+ eHP scout. I could be wrong, but damps/kincats/precision mods do not modify HP values (you know, with them being biotics and eWAR mods instead of shields/armour). And last time I checked... Tanked scout =/= Completely untanked scout. Unless, of course, one places all scouts as being equal, regardless of DUSTs entire fitting system. But then that begs the question as to why one would single out a specific scout fitting, when fittings are irrelevant... Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 948	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:48:00 - [23] - Quote sadly untill tanked OP assault-lite scouts get F'd with a spikey nerf-bat where the sun does not shine.. my alts will be abuseing the hell out of it as revenge for all the rage i feel about there being like 80% scouts and 1 token assault suit. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 948	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:49:00 - [24] - Quote valad II wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano So when everyone cried about the main dropship counter being another dropship... The whole "counter to something is itself" dilemma gets a wrench thrown into it when you realize that in order for that to apply here, in this contex, vlad II would have had to recommend a 700+ eHP scout. I could be wrong, but damps/kincats/precision mods do not modify HP values (you know, with them being biotics and eWAR mods instead of shields/armour). And last time I checked... Tanked scout =/= Completely untanked scout. Unless, of course, one places all scouts as being equal, regardless of DUSTs entire fitting system. But then that begs the question as to why one would single out a specific scout fitting, when fittings are irrelevant... Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter. of gal logi suit 5 and focused active scanner.. i think only the 100% ewar scouts (ie real scouts) can avoid detection from it. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3571	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:54:00 - [25] - Quote valad II wrote: Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter. The counter to paper is not paper, the counter to rock isn't rock, the counter to scissors isn't more ******* scissors. Your argument is invalid. My advice to you, playa...
Vicious Minotaur 1195	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:56:00 - [26] - Quote valad II wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano So when everyone cried about the main dropship counter being another dropship... The whole "counter to something is itself" dilemma gets a wrench thrown into it when you realize that in order for that to apply here, in this contex, vlad II would have had to recommend a 700+ eHP scout. I could be wrong, but damps/kincats/precision mods do not modify HP values (you know, with them being biotics and eWAR mods instead of shields/armour). And last time I checked... Tanked scout =/= Completely untanked scout. Unless, of course, one places all scouts as being equal, regardless of DUSTs entire fitting system. But then that begs the question as to why one would single out a specific scout fitting, when fittings are irrelevant... Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter. ....what? People are bringing up the idea that the counter to something should not be itself. (and directed that idea at what you said) I simply mentioned that countering a tanked scout with an untanked, eWAR scout does not fit with the idea of "The counter to something is itself." Because, again, Tanked scout =/= Completely untanked scout, which is directed at the aforementioned idea. (being: the counter to something should never be itself) In order for that idea to apply, it would have to have been 700eHP scout vs. 700eHP scout, which, given what has been said, is not at all applicable (because you suggested an eWAR scout). To put it simply, I was agreeing with you. I am a minotaur.
valad II NoGameNoLife 220	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:00:00 - [27] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: valad II wrote: Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter. The counter to paper is not paper, the counter to rock isn't rock, the counter to scissors isn't more ******* scissors. Your argument is invalid. WOW all this bullsh!t you spew and you dont provide one answer. Good job. Real productive. You saying my argument is invalid because of paper, rock, scissors doesn't prove that my argument is infact invalid. More less proves my point because you provide sh!t else of evidence or solutions. Nice fallacy you provided.
valad II NoGameNoLife 220	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:02:00 - [28] - Quote Vicious Minotaur, I apologize. I misread it.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 952	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:35:00 - [29] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: valad II wrote: Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter. The counter to paper is not paper, the counter to rock isn't rock, the counter to scissors isn't more ***** scissors. Your argument is invalid. depends.. if your talking ORE.. then diamond as an ORE can break all other rock :P [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah**
valad II NoGameNoLife 223	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:39:00 - [30] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: valad II wrote: Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter. The counter to paper is not paper, the counter to rock isn't rock, the counter to scissors isn't more ******* scissors. Your argument is invalid. depends.. if your talking ORE.. then diamond as an ORE can break all other rock :P Sharmin butthole paper or heavy duty construction paper that has complex armor plates? I like sharmin, it doesn't leave any dingle berries.

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3572	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:42:00 - [31] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Depends.. if your talking ORE.. then diamond as an ORE can break all other rock :P Let's not get technical here Apoth. We will lose valad I tried to use simple terms, but it gave him an aneurysm. Let's have a meaningful conversation about the scout and assault role. Scouts need a light weapon, they need ewar, and cloaks. Those things make them fit neatly into their role as opportunistic ambush/recon. What they don't need is the ability to fit 700+ eHP. As a scout, tell me what would be a good way to prevent this kind of behavior. As an assault, I don't want better ewar, cloaking bonuses, or insane walk/sprint speeds. I don't want to infringe on the scout role. Can we change the assault dropsuits to make them better at their role? My advice to you, playa...
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 953	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:44:00 - [32] - Quote valad II wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: valad II wrote: Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter. The counter to paper is not paper, the counter to rock isn't rock, the counter to scissors isn't more ***** scissors. Your argument is invalid. depends.. if your talking ORE.. then diamond as an ORE can break all other rock :P Sharmin butthole paper or heavy duty construction paper that has complex armor plates? I like sharmin, it doesn't leave any dingle berries. you mean compacted cardboard (thick paper) vs 2 ply toilet paper.. what will win? :P [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah**
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 953	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:45:00 - [33] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Depends.. if your talking ORE.. then diamond as an ORE can break all other rock :P Let's not get technical here Apoth. We will lose valad I tried to use simple terms, but it gave him an aneurysm. Let's have a meaningful conversation about the scout and assault role. Scouts need a light weapon, they need ewar, and cloaks. Those things make them fit neatly into their role as opportunistic ambush/recon. What they don't need is the ability to fit 700+ eHP. As a scout, tell me what would be a good way to prevent this kind of behavior. As an assault, I don't want better ewar, cloaking bonuses, or insane walk/sprint speeds. I don't want to infringe on the scout role. Can we change the assault dropsuits to make them better at their role? well id say scout needs -1 equipment and assault needs +1 edit. only if amarr and caldari logi get +1 equipment at standard level to bring them to 3 [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
valad II NoGameNoLife 223	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:48:00 - [34] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: valad II wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: valad II wrote: Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter. The counter to paper is not paper, the counter to rock isn't rock, the counter to scissors isn't more ******* scissors. Your argument is invalid. depends.. if your talking ORE.. then diamond as an ORE can break all other rock :P Sharmin butthole paper or heavy duty construction paper that has complex armor plates? I like sharmin, it doesn't leave any dingle berries. you mean compacted cardboard (thick paper) vs 2 ply toilet paper.. what will win? :P Depends on if compacted sees the 2ply coming for him. 2 ply is squishy but dampened. I love an underdog. money is onthe 2ply butt paper.
valad II NoGameNoLife 223	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:49:00 - [35] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Depends.. if your talking ORE.. then diamond as an ORE can break all other rock :P Let's not get technical here Apoth. We will lose valad I tried to use simple terms, but it gave him an aneurysm. Let's have a meaningful conversation about the scout and assault role. Scouts need a light weapon, they need ewar, and cloaks. Those things make them fit neatly into their role as opportunistic ambush/recon. What they don't need is the ability to fit 700+ eHP. As a scout, tell me what would be a good way to prevent this kind of behavior. As an assault, I don't want better ewar, cloaking bonuses, or insane walk/sprint speeds. I don't want to infringe on the scout role. Can we change the assault dropsuits to make them better at their role? well id say scout needs -1 equipment and assault needs +1 edit. only if amarr and caldari logi get +1 equipment at standard level to bring them to 3 I could totally agree with getting rid of the scouts 2nd equip slot. Sacrifice.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 953	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:49:00 - [36] - Quote valad II wrote: you mean compacted cardboard (thick paper) vs 2 ply toilet paper.. what will win? :P Depends on if compacted sees the 2ply coming for him. 2 ply is squishy but dampened. I love an underdog. money is onthe 2ply butt paper. [/quote] depending on the saturation of the 2ply it should be thrown against the cardboard and eventually could weaken the area and it would have a structural failure [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
valad II NoGameNoLife 223	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:53:00 - [37] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: valad II wrote: you mean compacted cardboard (thick paper) vs 2 ply toilet paper.. what will win? :P Depends on if compacted sees the 2ply coming for him. 2 ply is squishy but dampened. I love an underdog. money is onthe 2ply butt paper. depending on the saturation of the 2ply it should be thrown against the cardboard and eventually could weaken the area and it would have a structural failure[/quote] LOL now I just gotta say what? I am not catching the comparisons. Fun while it lasted.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3572	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:56:00 - [38] - Quote Apothecary wrote: well id say scout needs -1 equipment and assault needs +1 edit. only if amarr and caldari logi get +1 equipment at standard level to bring them to 3 That prevents scouts from being mini logis. How does that keep them from fitting massive tanks? Not saying it is a bad change, just playing devil's advocate. My advice to you, playa...
Yeeeuuuupppp Vengeance Unbound 632	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:00:00 - [39] - Quote Atiim wrote: Everyone has to sacrifice something for their advantages, Scouts should be one of them. Speed. "Removed for hurting my feelings" - CCP PSN: GMANCASH Rage Proficiency V
Yeeeuuuupppp Vengeance Unbound 632	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:01:00 - [40] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: Why should it, the Rail rifle doesn't exchange anything for being long range, the bolt pistol exchanges nothing for being long range and insanely high damaging, and the scout suit is just insane at everything, at the same time. Bolt pIstol has a slow rof, but high damage "Removed for hurting my feelings" - CCP PSN: GMANCASH Rage Proficiency V

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3572	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:02:00 - [41] - Quote Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Speed. Shield tanks do not sacrifice speed for their tank. As for armor tanking, just stick to ferroscale and reactives. Dual tanking is still very much a possibility My advice to you, playa...
Mex-0 G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 72	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:03:00 - [42] - Quote I pray that CCP does not take the nerf bat to the scouts. It's my favorite class. I can run 500 eHP max on my proto caldari scout. I assume you are talking about the gallente scout? Dedicated Scout and Nova Knifer.
Sergeant Sazu New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 142	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:03:00 - [43] - Quote Switch the Scout's regen stats with the Assault's, and watch as only the real Scouts remain. "Breach weapon specialist..." -Puts two pairs of sunglasses on Assault gk.0- "...before it was cool."
valad II NoGameNoLife 223	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:04:00 - [44] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Apothecary wrote: well id say scout needs -1 equipment and assault needs +1 edit. only if amarr and caldari logi get +1 equipment at standard level to bring them to 3 That prevents scouts from being mini logis. How does that keep them from fitting massive tanks? Not saying it is a bad change, just playing devil's advocate. Why shouldnt they be able to tank if they wish too. Then they are slow and unable to run precision or damps. They are sacrificing that for tanking.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3572	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:05:00 - [45] - Quote valad II wrote: Why shouldnt they be able to tank if they wish too. Then they are slow and unable to run precision or damps. They are sacrificing that for tanking. Even without damps a Gallente/Caldari scout can fly well under logistic and assaults dropsuits scan precision. Which gives the scout tank AND invisibility to passive scans. My advice to you, playa...
Yeeeuuuupppp Vengeance Unbound 633	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:19:00 - [46] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Speed. Shield tanks do not sacrifice speed for their tank. As for armor tanking, just stick to ferroscale and reactives. Dual tanking is still very much a possibility The op said 700+ hp. Most if not everyone pointed at thE gal scout. Gal scouts max armor is 750, which is only achieved from 4 complex armor plates. Stacking ferro's, iirc, gets you to just over 600 armor, and reactives just under 600. None of those fits would be viable except maybe the ferro, speed wise. Now, for shield suits, the max you could have is 450 shields which doesn't seem too much (imo). That of course would be the scout,ck.o with 4 complex shields. This is almost a very good fit if it didn't lack ewar . The part where it really gets stupid is when you put 2 enhanced plates, which bumps you up to about 450/330. (Those numbers are very very close to my min assault). I'm pretty sure that if you don'T use a cloak, you'd be able to toss a complex plate or two. Yes, you could put on ferro and blah blah, but these "scouts" want to be hp effectivE more than anything . To fix these absurd numbers I'd suggest nerfing pg/cpu capabilities of the scout, and maybe have hp mods give like half of what they'd normally give (just spit balling) "Removed for hurting my feelings" - CCP PSN: GMANCASH Rage Proficiency V
Atiim 12762	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:25:00 - [47] - Quote Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Atiim wrote: Everyone has to sacrifice something for their advantages, Scouts should be one of them. Speed. I've made scout builds with 600+ eHP that can still sprint at 8m/s. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 245	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:27:00 - [48] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: An assault will beat a tanked scout of equal skill every single time. Its a different story if the scout uses ewar and a shotgun That is actually not true. It is the inverse. A tanked scout will beat an assault of equal skill every time and you know it (or are you a scout....)
Yeeeuuuupppp Vengeance Unbound 635	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:34:00 - [49] - Quote Atiim wrote: Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Atiim wrote: Everyone has to sacrifice something for their advantages, Scouts should be one of them. Speed. I've made scout builds with 600+ eHP that can still sprint at 8m/s. Dafuq "Removed for hurting my feelings" - CCP PSN: GMANCASH Rage Proficiency V
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3572	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:37:00 - [50] - Quote Atiim wrote: I've made scout builds with 600+ eHP that can still sprint at 8m/s. Please be overexaggerating. Link the fitting? My advice to you, playa...

Atiim 12762	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:45:00 - [51] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Atiim wrote: I've made scout builds with 600+ eHP that can still sprint at 8m/s. Please be overexaggerating. Link the fitting? http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/837/8224 Who needs Shield Regulators and Rechargers when you have 50HP/s and a 3s delay? The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3573	Posted - 2014.10.06 00:51:00 - [52] - Quote Atiim wrote: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/837/8224 Who needs Shield Regulators and Rechargers when you have 50HP/s and a 3s delay? ...gotdayum. Yeah, they should just retire the assault dropsuit until they figure out how to fix the scout My advice to you, playa...
Thurak1 Psygod9 1019	Posted - 2014.10.06 01:08:00 - [53] - Quote Dam once i get home and can view that web page i need to spend some of my unused sp and make me a scout.
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3749	Posted - 2014.10.06 01:19:00 - [54] - Quote It's horrible, I know. I still suggest removing an equipment and going back to the old CPU / PG of Olde. Scout fittings were fine back then. We didn't need the buff.
X7 lion Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 304	Posted - 2014.10.06 02:03:00 - [55] - Quote Plates on scouts should slow scouts down more & raise the scan profile, that way us real scouts are not effect by a balance change that has nothing to do with us. Do not contribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance. being contradictory is not the same as being offensive.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 954	Posted - 2014.10.06 02:04:00 - [56] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Apothecary wrote: well id say scout needs -1 equipment and assault needs +1 edit. only if amarr and caldari logi get +1 equipment at standard level to bring them to 3 That prevents scouts from being mini logis. How does that keep them from fitting massive tanks? Not saying it is a bad change, just playing devil's advocate. its one small step.. maybe lower their slots and PG as ewar only takes cpu iirc. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 954	Posted - 2014.10.06 02:05:00 - [57] - Quote Joel II X wrote: It's horrible, I know. I still suggest removing an equipment and going back to the old CPU / PG of Olde. Scout fittings were fine back then. We didn't need the buff. maybe "light" suits stay at 2 equip.. and scout goes down to 1.. as scout is the specialist for ewar/cloak.. thes changes mean people would make a shift to the slightly subpar (on cpu) suit if they wanted the 2 slots. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 954	Posted - 2014.10.06 02:07:00 - [58] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Atiim wrote: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/837/8224 Who needs Shield Regulators and Rechargers when you have 50HP/s and a 3s delay? ...gotdayum. Yeah, they should just retire the assault dropsuit until they figure out how to fix the scout think i need to change my underware.. i didnt think it was possable to Brick that hard on a caldari.. i thougth the main offenders were gal/amarr [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
hfderrtgvcd 655	Posted - 2014.10.06 02:16:00 - [59] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: An assault will beat a tanked scout of equal skill every single time. Its a different story if the scout uses ewar and a shotgun That is actually not true. It is the inverse. A scout of any variety will beat an assault of equal skill more often than not and you know it (or are you a scout....) And I am speaking solely head to head. Strafe /plus/ keyboard /plus/ speed /plus/ tiny hitbox /plus/ lag compensation making bullets that hit actually miss give scouts ridiculous ehp. They SHOULD win everytime if they sneak to the side or behind. I have both proto assault and proto scout. The assault has over 1100 hp. No scout can come even close to that. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3574	Posted - 2014.10.06 02:16:00 - [60] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: maybe "light" suits stay at 2 equip.. and scout goes down to 1.. as scout is the specialist for ewar/cloak.. thes changes mean people would make a shift to the slightly subpar (on cpu) suit if they wanted the 2 slots. Light dropsuits do not get the cloaking module CPU/PG reduction. Doesn't make a lot of sense for them to have two equipment slots unless they need a cloak. I feel like borrowing the modules "sizes" from Eve Online would be the best way to balance this nonsense. That way, a scout could fit a dual tank and have great eHP... for scout. In comparison to a medium dropsuit it will always be just a bit behind in the eHP department. And so it goes with mediums and heavies; heavies can fit "large" modules, which will grant more eHP than medium. Either that, or have modules grant a percentage of the respective HP. That isn't really keeping with the spirit of New Eden though, as the only modules that grant percentages of things are rigs (IIRC). My advice to you, playa...

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 958	Posted - 2014.10.06 02:22:00 - [61] - Quote Atiim wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Atiim wrote: I've made scout builds with 600+ eHP that can still sprint at 8m/s. Please be overexaggerating. Link the fitting? http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/837/8224 Who needs Shield Regulators and Rechargers when you have 50HP/s and a 3s delay? i managed to get amarr scout to like 944 ehp.. and gallente with like 904ehp.. its nuts [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 2444	Posted - 2014.10.06 02:47:00 - [62] - Quote Atiim wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Atiim wrote: I've made scout builds with 600+ eHP that can still sprint at 8m/s. Please be overexaggerating. Link the fitting? http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/837/8224 Who needs Shield Regulators and Rechargers when you have 50HP/s and a 3s delay? But no room for a Cloak, Or Damps.... A Logi with a Active scanner skills can scan you out... Not that any of them know it anymore... EVERY scout with passive skills can see you... ANDD Your Suck with a Burst Combat Rifle or Basic, ADV level weapons to make the fit effective. When that fits goes Toe to toe with a Caldari Assault or a Caldari Commando the suit fails... It completely relies on it's paper thin Ewar which nearly anything can see through. Negatives and Benefits.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3574	Posted - 2014.10.06 03:00:00 - [63] - Quote Bethhy wrote: But no room for a Cloak, Or Damps.... Ermm... http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/837/8228 Here is the same fitting with a cloak. Also, if you are a Gallente or Caldari scout you get onboard damps by nature of the scout skill. Bethhy wrote: A Logi with a Active scanner skills can scan you out... Not that any of them know it anymore... I see logis with scanners once in a blue moon. They also have to be scanning in the right location to see the scout. An active scanner does not guarantee catching a scout. Bethhy wrote: EVERY scout with passive skills can see you... Scouts are the solution to OP scouts... got it Bethhy wrote: AND Your Stuck with a Burst Combat Rifle or Basic, ADV level weapons to make the fit effective. Uh, his fitting has a proto light and an advanced sidearm. That's pretty beefy. Bethhy wrote: Negatives and Benefits. I'm seeing a lot of benefits, but not many negatives... My advice to you, playa...
gustavo acosta Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 310	Posted - 2014.10.06 04:12:00 - [64] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Atiim wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Atiim wrote: I've made scout builds with 600+ eHP that can still sprint at 8m/s. Please be overexaggerating. Link the fitting? http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/837/8224 Who needs Shield Regulators and Rechargers when you have 50HP/s and a 3s delay? But no room for a Cloak, Or Damps.... A Logi with a Active scanner skills can scan you out... Not that any of them know it anymore... EVERY scout with passive skills can see you... ANDD Your Stuck with a Burst Combat Rifle or Basic, ADV level weapons to make the fit effective. When that fits goes Toe to toe with a Caldari Assault or a Caldari Commando the suit fails... It completely relies on it's paper thin Ewar which nearly anything can see through. Negatives and Benefits. With that much EHp, passive E-war, and Regen who need to be invisible.? Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 627	Posted - 2014.10.06 04:32:00 - [65] - Quote So still the best counter to a scout is a scout? Oh and to the dummies who say you can't count a Tanked scout as a ewar scout...... you must be trolling. They are both scouts yes? Just a simple yes or no will do. A tanked scout still has these advantages over the other suits: invisible to all but scout on tacnet (might be invisible to most scouts too) can see all but some scouts on tacnet Faster than all but scouts has 2 equipment slots Does the same amount of damage as an assault Can cloak Can navigate more difficult terran Can see farther on tacnet Can run farther Can run longer Much smaller hitbox than assaults and heavies Regen shields in a blink of an eye You can do all of this on a scout, fit a prototype weapon, proto nades, proto armor rep, run at nearly 7 m/sec, have a nanohive, cloak, and still have a sidearm, oh and 823 HP.OR forgo the armor repper, run a tiny bit slower, and have 971 HP. Yep thats right, be better in EVERY SINGLE ATTRIBUTE but HP, oh but wait, due to having a significantly smaller hitbox, your dodging many more bullets, and have effectively the same or MORE HP. If you really think scouts are balanced you are just dumb. If you think it is ok for scouts to be the only valid counter for scouts you are dumb. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
Bax Zanith 200	Posted - 2014.10.06 05:24:00 - [66] - Quote If none of you don't mind me cutting in, I'd like to do a little more than shout my opinion. Does anyone here want to take a stab at guessing what the role "Assault" means, and what is needed to perform this role? Anyone? If all you want to do is argue without accomplishing anything, then by all means just ignore me. They didn't die from the cold without They died from the cold within. - James Patrick Kinney
Magnus Amadeuss Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1126	Posted - 2014.10.06 05:41:00 - [67] - Quote Bax Zanith wrote: If none of you don't mind me cutting in, I'd like to do a little more than shout my opinion. Does anyone here want to take a stab at guessing what the role "Assault" means, and what is needed to perform this role? Anyone? If all you want to do is argue without accomplishing anything, then by all means just ignore me. That isn't really the point of discussion is it though? The point is that a scout fills too many roles in either an exclusionary (like ewar) or an encompasing (like assault/logi-lite) manner. Should a scout be able to do these things is the better question. Should a scout be the only viable suit for so many roles, while being fully capable of filling other roles as well? Especially when the other suits can in no way fufill it's role to the same extent? What exactly is the role of the scout? Is it supposed to assault? If no, why can it have so many HP and such a small hitbox making it an idea assaulter? Why does it do just as much damage as the assault and logi suits? Is it an assault/logi hybrid? If no, why does it require two equipment slots? Why does it have so many slots? Is it an ewar machine? Is it a stealth role? What exactly is the role of the scout? Right now it fills too many shoes too well, many at the same time. Fixing swarms
Bax Zanith 200	Posted - 2014.10.06 06:02:00 - [68] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Bax Zanith wrote: If none of you don't mind me cutting in, I'd like to do a little more than shout my opinion. Does anyone here want to take a stab at guessing what the role "Assault" means, and what is needed to perform this role? Anyone? If all you want to do is argue without accomplishing anything, then by all means just ignore me. That isn't really the point of discussion is it though? The point is that a scout fills too many roles in either an exclusionary (like ewar) or an encompasing (like assault/logi-lite) manner. Should a scout be able to do these things is the better question. Should a scout be the only viable suit for so many roles, while being fully capable of filling other roles as well? Especially when the other suits can in no way fufill it's role to the same extent? What exactly is the role of the scout? I want to answer this question too, but I have to start some where first. Id like to look at the argument backed up by sound logic, rather then just taking someone's word for it. But that of course is going to require more than comparing shear stats to accomplish. Is the scout OP, or is the assault UP? I want a crystal clear answer, and I'm not going to get that answer by just yelling. I'm not a genius like judge, or Mat Pat from game theory, so I politely ask for some help to find the answer, and possibly the solution. They didn't die from the cold without They died from the cold within. - James Patrick Kinney
Henrietta Unknown Nox Lupos 342	Posted - 2014.10.06 06:04:00 - [69] - Quote Bax Zanith wrote: If none of you don't mind me cutting in, I'd like to do a little more than shout my opinion. Does anyone here want to take a stab at guessing what the role "Assault" means, and what is needed to perform this role? Anyone? If all you want to do is argue without accomplishing anything, then by all means just ignore me. Standard infantry. Not better than a scout or heavy 1 v 1, but at least two or three in an advantageous position and with the appropriate weapons and builds can neutralize a heavy or a scout. Now when you throw in multiple heavies/scouts, the Assaults start to suffer again. Not to mention that assaults have the highest number of slots out of all dropsuits. Basically, assaults are versatile. They suck alone, but pack effective punches as a coordinated squad. The main reason organized squads still suffer today is because there are also full squads of heavies + logies or scouts or both. ...had to let it out. Give the Magsex some love.
Magnus Amadeuss Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1126	Posted - 2014.10.06 06:13:00 - [70] - Quote Bax Zanith wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Bax Zanith wrote: If none of you don't mind me cutting in, I'd like to do a little more than shout my opinion. Does anyone here want to take a stab at guessing what the role "Assault" means, and what is needed to perform this role? Anyone? If all you want to do is argue without accomplishing anything, then by all means just ignore me. That isn't really the point of discussion is it though? The point is that a scout fills too many roles in either an exclusionary (like ewar) or an encompasing (like assault/logi-lite) manner. Should a scout be able to do these things is the better question. Should a scout be the only viable suit for so many roles, while being fully capable of filling other roles as well? Especially when the other suits can in no way fufill it's role to the same extent? What exactly is the role of the scout? I want to answer this question too, but I have to start some where first. Id like to look at the argument backed up by sound logic, rather then just taking someone's word for it. But that of course is going to require more than comparing shear stats to accomplish. Is the scout OP, or is the assault UP? I want a crystal clear answer, and I'm not going to get that answer by just yelling. I'm not a genius like judge, or Mat Pat from game theory, so I politely ask for some help to find the answer, and possibly the solution. That is too binary of a question, the reason being is that there are multiple suits in this game. So you have to ask yourself, how do the assault, logi, sentinel, commando, and scout fit into this game, which ones are OP and UP and work from there. This amkes the entire thing WAY more complicated. What should be obvious is that players will flock to what is OP, and using metrics you can decide what is over performing and what is under performing. I think it is plainly obvious that the scout is the most popular suit with people over 10 million SP, and where there is smoke there is fire. Fixing swarms

Bax Zanith 200	Posted - 2014.10.06 06:18:00 - [71] - Quote Henrietta Unknown wrote: Bax Zanith wrote: If none of you don't mind me cutting in, I'd like to do a little more than shout my opinion. Does anyone here want to take a stab at guessing what the role "Assault" means, and what is needed to perform this role? Anyone? If all you want to do is argue without accomplishing anything, then by all means just ignore me. Standard infantry. Not better than a scout or heavy 1 v 1, but at least two or three in an advantageous position and with the appropriate weapons and builds can neutralize a heavy or a scout. Now when you throw in multiple heavies/scouts, the Assaults start to suffer again. Not to mention that assaults have the highest number of slots out of all dropsuits. Basically, assaults are versatile. They suck alone, but pack effective punches as a coordinated squad. The main reason organized squads still suffer today is because there are also full squads of heavies + logies or scouts or both. ...had to let it out. So funny thing about that slot thing. Assault suits have more slots than there scout counter parts only at the proto level, even then its only by one slot. At advanced level they equal in total slot numberes, and at standard the scout beats the assault in slot count by approximately one equipment slot. They didn't die from the cold without They died from the cold within. - James Patrick Kinney
Magnus Amadeuss Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1126	Posted - 2014.10.06 06:29:00 - [72] - Quote Henrietta Unknown wrote: Bax Zanith wrote: If none of you don't mind me cutting in, I'd like to do a little more than shout my opinion. Does anyone here want to take a stab at guessing what the role "Assault" means, and what is needed to perform this role? Anyone? If all you want to do is argue without accomplishing anything, then by all means just ignore me. Standard infantry. Not better than a scout or heavy 1 v 1, but at least two or three in an advantageous position and with the appropriate weapons and builds can neutralize a heavy or a scout. Now when you throw in multiple heavies/scouts, the Assaults start to suffer again. Not to mention that assaults have the highest number of slots out of all dropsuits. Basically, assaults are versatile. They suck alone, but pack effective punches as a coordinated squad. The main reason organized squads still suffer today is because there are also full squads of heavies + logies or scouts or both. ...had to let it out. Here i the problem with that statement: If Scout > assault, bring scout If Heavy > assault, bring heavy Assaults are not the most versitile either, I would argue that they are just below sentinels, 1 light, 1 sidearm, 1 grenade, 1 equipment (logi and scout have this setup too, sentinel has a grenade, commando has equipment), 3rd worst ewar stats (after scout and logi), 3rd worst HP (after heavy and commando), 2nd fastest speed/endurance (after scout). There is a reason you see so many people using sentinels with light weapons, they fill assault roles just as well. The only assault suit that seems like it has a decent bonus is the amarr assault suit, and that is only because scramblers and laser are useless without that suit. It is not coincidence that the two suit classes with 3 bonuses (sentinel and scout) are also the most used. Fixing swarms
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 429	Posted - 2014.10.06 06:53:00 - [73] - Quote Sergeant Sazu wrote: Switch the Scout's regen stats with the Assault's, and watch as only the real Scouts remain. Quoting this to bring a bit more attention. I think this would be a very good solution. It makes assaults much better frontline fighters, while encouraging scouts to rely more on stealth by reducing the effectiveness of any tank they might attempt to build. The Amarr suits might need a bit more tweaking beyond this, but I think it alleviates most of the problems with the other three. I don't like the idea of removing the scout's 2nd EQ or giving another one to Assaults. It just so happens that my argument for this relates to the role of Assaults in comparison to the other two primary combatant classes, Scouts and Sentinels (I guess Commandos are too, but they're a bit more niche). I may be a bit biased on the Scouts, but the two EQ slots are very important to many of the Scout's roles that can't be done effectively by any other unit. Scouts are often used as uplink runners, which usually requires either a cloak, or two sets of links depending on the situation. As for Assaults, they are, even by name, focused primarily on combat. More equipment would just bring them further from that role. Unlike Sentinels, who fill a similar role, Assaults do need one EQ in order to have relative autonomy, which a Sentinel isn't suited for.
Vicious Minotaur 1198	Posted - 2014.10.06 07:35:00 - [74] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: If you think it is ok for scouts to be the only valid counter for scouts you are crutcher. I frequently counter any and all armour tanking scouts (be it eWAR or Tanked) with a Mass Driver. They don't like those (hell, even shield tanked scouts don't like them). And Mass Drivers can be used on any suit. Ion and scrambler pistols can wreck shields of any scout, and can be used to counter any shield tanking scout (provided you can aim). And sidearms can be used on all suits. In fact, every single weapon in the game, barring the swarm launcher, can be used to counter a scout suit if you are competent. If you can't counter a tanked scout suit with anything other than another scout, then, well... you just flat out suck at this game. "But they can cloak!" Oh, but you have eyes, and the cloak, when active, is easily seen through. "But they can avoid scans!" Oh, but again, you have eyes. Check your back frequently, avoid getting tunnel vision during engagements, and your eyes will see scouts, even cloaked ones. Oh, and you have active scanners. And yes, they work. Tanked scouts will have trouble beating an active scanner. "But they are fast!" Oh, but they are not faster than bullets, now, are they? "But they can tank lots w/ better speed and a hitbox!" Oh, but if you use the right weapon, they are as good as dead. Can't hit them? Get better aim, or use a different weapon that is more forgiving. That speed won't mean a thing when you force them to either run or die with proper weapon usage. In fact, the best counter to scouts (and anything, really), is YOU. As in, your brain and your eyes. That's how it is in virtually every game. Now, that's not to say that there are not problems with scouts, for there are (I won't go into the real problems, because this thread is trash). But Come on. There is an entire fitting system in DUST with a plethora of options. I counter scouts, even heavily tanked ones, on a regular basis using ARs, MDs, Bolt pistols, HMGs and others, all on Logis/assaults/Commandos/Sentinels, and yes, even scouts. TL;DR Get good, and use the damn fitting system. I am a minotaur.
valad II NoGameNoLife 235	Posted - 2014.10.06 07:46:00 - [75] - Quote All the bitching about Scouts brick tanking is hilarious. Especially when you have scrubs running around in Sent. GKO's with Kali rail rifles. All the roof top camping going on, makes me not give a sh!t about all the bitczhes complaining about scouts even more. Just tonight I took my Amarr Scout AKO and brick tanked the hell out of him. Stood right in front of a heavy and shot him 3 times. Buh bye heavy. Still able to cloak up and disappear. Call me a scrub, I dont give a flying Fuk. Get the fuk off the roofs. This isn't Nintendos Duck Hunt.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1115	Posted - 2014.10.06 07:59:00 - [76] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: It was out of hand between 1.8 and Charlie. Now it is a minor annoyance, with many slayers finding the Assaults preferable when playing the role. "Slayers" You mean the scrubs who *need* that much HP to win a gunfight right? Amarrica! It's Not Safe to Swim.
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3750	Posted - 2014.10.06 08:10:00 - [77] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Joel II X wrote: It's horrible, I know. I still suggest removing an equipment and going back to the old CPU / PG of Olde. Scout fittings were fine back then. We didn't need the buff. maybe "light" suits stay at 2 equip.. and scout goes down to 1.. as scout is the specialist for ewar/cloak.. thes changes mean people would make a shift to the slightly subpar (on cpu) suit if they wanted the 2 slots. I can get behind that...
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1885	Posted - 2014.10.06 08:17:00 - [78] - Quote Said this before, I'll say it again. Give precision to Caldari Scout, and range to Amarr Scout. The Caldari capitalizes on a precision bonus by sacrificing tank. Same for Amarr and range. Decrease dampeners effectiveness, so that Gallente must fit more to remain hidden. MinScout is paper as it is, especially when fitted with kincats. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 430	Posted - 2014.10.06 08:31:00 - [79] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Joel II X wrote: It's horrible, I know. I still suggest removing an equipment and going back to the old CPU / PG of Olde. Scout fittings were fine back then. We didn't need the buff. maybe "light" suits stay at 2 equip.. and scout goes down to 1.. as scout is the specialist for ewar/cloak.. thes changes mean people would make a shift to the slightly subpar (on cpu) suit if they wanted the 2 slots. I can get behind that... I still can't support swapping the EQs of Assaults and Scouts. There haven't been any complete arguments for it in this thread. All I've seen is "Less stuff for Scouts, more stuff for Assaults." The extra EQ is immensely more useful on a Scout than it would be on an Assault. In fact, it would do very little to alleviate the disparity between the two classes. The two equipment slots are extremely important to the Scout's role, as I mentioned above. The Assault just isn't fitted to utilize it as well as a Scout can, and it doesn't fit the primary goals of the class. Swapping the regen/repair rates, however, would be immensely more useful for Assaults, while allowing scouts to maintain their primary role. Scouts aren't supposed to be taking much damage in the first place. So, if Scouts are utilizing the role "as intended," it won't have a huge effect. What it will do, is greatly reduce the effectiveness of any tank stacked on a Scout suit, while increasing its effectiveness in Assault suits. This will make Assaults into much more formidable frontline fighters.
rpastry The Rainbow Effect 245	Posted - 2014.10.06 08:37:00 - [80] - Quote brick tanked scouts are garbage. any ewar scout can see them and all an assault needs is one complex dampener to counter their passive scan. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]

Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 101	Posted - 2014.10.06 08:48:00 - [81] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: There haven't been any complete arguments for it in this thread. All I've seen is "Less stuff for Scouts, more stuff for Assaults." The extra EQ is immensely more useful on a Scout than it would be on an Assault. In fact, it would do very little to alleviate the disparity between the two classes. The two equipment slots are extremely important to the Scout's role, as I mentioned above. The Assault just isn't fitted to utilize it as well as a Scout can, and it doesn't fit the primary goals of the class. because assaults do not have uses for explosives or injectors, right? who is gonna revive the logi? or setup a trap for the advancing heavies at the objectives?
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 430	Posted - 2014.10.06 09:03:00 - [82] - Quote Cpt McReady wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: There haven't been any complete arguments for it in this thread. All I've seen is "Less stuff for Scouts, more stuff for Assaults." The extra EQ is immensely more useful on a Scout than it would be on an Assault. In fact, it would do very little to alleviate the disparity between the two classes. The two equipment slots are extremely important to the Scout's role, as I mentioned above. The Assault just isn't fitted to utilize it as well as a Scout can, and it doesn't fit the primary goals of the class. because assaults do not have uses for explosives or injectors, right? who is gonna revive the logi? or setup a trap for the advancing heavies at the objectives? I didn't say that they don't have a use for a second EQ slot, I said they can't utilize it as well. An Assault can do all of those things right now, just not more than one at once. Does it help the Assault achieve its primary role of the frontline attacker? Not really. The Assault shouldn't have time to juggle multiple EQ roles, because it should be assaulting. The Scout, however, is fast, agile, and stealthy, making it ideal for laying REs, running uplinks, and even substitute logistics. Take away that slot, and you are removing integral roles of the class and encouraging more bricked Scouts. The problem with the Assault is that it isn't good enough at, you know, assaulting. How do you fix that? The answer is REGEN. If the Assault can regenerate more quickly, it will be able to make its currently negligibly higher tank significant. If that happens, it will be able to spend more time assaulting, and less time regenerating HP.
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 101	Posted - 2014.10.06 09:38:00 - [83] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: The problem with the Assault is that it isn't good enough at, you know, assaulting. How do you fix that? The answer is REGEN. If the Assault can regenerate more quickly, it will be able to make its currently negligibly higher tank significant. If that happens, it will be able to spend more time assaulting, and less time regenerating HP. for regeneration armor tanked suits would need an additional bonus which gives them armor repair. beside that, scouts ewar bonus should be tied to the module and not to the base stats.
Shutter Fly Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 430	Posted - 2014.10.06 09:50:00 - [84] - Quote Cpt McReady wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: The problem with the Assault is that it isn't good enough at, you know, assaulting. How do you fix that? The answer is REGEN. If the Assault can regenerate more quickly, it will be able to make its currently negligibly higher tank significant. If that happens, it will be able to spend more time assaulting, and less time regenerating HP. for regeneration armor tanked suits would need an additional bonus which gives them armor repair. beside that, scouts ewar bonus should be tied to the module and not to the base stats. As I said earlier (guess I should have quoted it), the Amarr suits would need additional tweaks. Gallente could possibly need a bit more, but the Assault would be able to benefit a bit more from the boost to shield and would be in a good spot with the 3HP/s armor rep. I could live with ewar bonuses being tied to modules, but they would have to be rearranged. It would be a a huge nerf for the Cal Scout, whose two bonuses both apply to low slot modules, which it only has two spots for.
jerrmy12 kahoalii G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1622	Posted - 2014.10.06 10:15:00 - [85] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. we got you a book that might you thee Closed beta vet. Call me TrolLuna or Trollmare Moon. Reference link
Spaceman-Rob Dead Man's Game RUST415 556	Posted - 2014.10.06 10:41:00 - [86] - Quote Assaults just need another buff of some sort.
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1011	Posted - 2014.10.06 10:50:00 - [87] - Quote It amazes me how stupid some players are and they believe that more hp is always better in this game. My 400 hp scouts wrecks 700 hp scouts and my 990 armor hp ak.0 heavy wrecks 1300 armor hp heavies. Strafing, speed, flanking, using cover, stealth, situational awarness, the ability to aim and land shoots on target and using your eyes to find scouts not the tacnet, are the most important part of this game, not hp. And this is true regardless of the suit you are using. Only bad players brick fit scouts. And only worse players complain about them. Get good and quit your bitching. If you pulled your head from your ass you would realize there are multiple counters to brick fit scouts. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 101	Posted - 2014.10.06 11:00:00 - [88] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: It amazes me how stupid some players are and they believe that more hp is always better in this game. My 400 hp scouts wrecks 700 hp scouts and my 990 armor hp ak.0 heavy wrecks 1300 armor hp heavies. Strafing, speed, flanking, using cover, stealth, situational awarness, the ability to aim and land shoots on target and using your eyes to find scouts not the tacnet, are the most important part of this game, not hp. And this is true regardless of the suit you are using. Only bad players brick fit scouts. And only worse players complain about them. Get good and quit your bitching. If you pulled your head from your ass you would realize there are multiple counters to brick fit scouts. so you arguments for scouts being able to do all roles is because you can defeat bad players? 1/10 troll attempt
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1011	Posted - 2014.10.06 11:22:00 - [89] - Quote Cpt McReady wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: It amazes me how stupid some players are and they believe that more hp is always better in this game. My 400 hp scouts wrecks 700 hp scouts and my 990 armor hp ak.0 heavy wrecks 1300 armor hp heavies. Strafing, speed, flanking, using cover, stealth, situational awarness, the ability to aim and land shoots on target and using your eyes to find scouts not the tacnet, are the most important part of this game, not hp. And this is true regardless of the suit you are using. Only bad players brick fit scouts. And only worse players complain about them. Get good and quit your bitching. If you pulled your head from your ass you would realize there are multiple counters to brick fit scouts. so you arguments for scouts being able to do all roles is because you can defeat bad players? 1/10 troll attempt It is obvious you can't read. My argument is that more HP does not make scouts or any dropsuit better. I know players that dampen assault suits and **** face with them. I speed tank heavies and murder brick fit heavies. My dampend scouts slaughter brick fit scouts. HP is the least important stat in this game and if you don't understand why that is true than there is no hope for you. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Prius Vecht Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 401	Posted - 2014.10.06 13:00:00 - [90] - Quote Scouts should have a max health of 400 ehp or so. they have to sacrifice something for speed, a tiny hitbox and being hard to detect.

Mex-0 G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 72	Posted - 2014.10.06 22:21:00 - [91] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Cpt McReady wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: It amazes me how stupid some players are and they believe that more hp is always better in this game. My 400 hp scouts wrecks 700 hp scouts and my 990 armor hp ak.0 heavy wrecks 1300 armor hp heavies. Strafing, speed, flanking, using cover, stealth, situational awarness, the ability to aim and land shoots on target and using your eyes to find scouts not the tacnet, are the most important part of this game, not hp. And this is true regardless of the suit you are using. Only bad players brick fit scouts. And only worse players complain about them. Get good and quit your bitching. If you pulled your head from your ass you would realize there are multiple counters to brick fit scouts. so you arguments for scouts being able to do all roles is because you can defeat bad players? 1/10 troll attempt It is obvious you can't read. My argument is that more HP does not make scouts or any dropsuit better. I know players that dampen assault suits and **** face with them. I speed tank heavies and murder brick fit heavies. My dampend scouts slaughter brick fit scouts. HP is the least important stat in this game and if you don't understand why that is true than there is no hope for you. HP is not the least important stat. There is a difference between a 1000+ brick tanked heavy and a 300 eHP scout. Dedicated Scout and Nova Knifer.
Mex-0 G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 72	Posted - 2014.10.06 22:23:00 - [92] - Quote Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Speed. Shield tanks do not sacrifice speed for their tank. As for armor tanking, just stick to ferroscale and reactives. Dual tanking is still very much a possibility The op said 700+ hp. Most if not everyone pointed at thE gal scout. Gal scouts max armor is 750, which is only achieved from 4 complex armor plates. Stacking ferro's, iirc, gets you to just over 600 armor, and reactives just under 600. None of those fits would be viable except maybe the ferro, speed wise. Now, for shield suits, the max you could have is 450 shields which doesn't seem too much (imo). That of course would be the scout,ck.o with 4 complex shields. This is almost a very good fit if it didn't lack ewar . The part where it really gets stupid is when you put 2 enhanced plates, which bumps you up to about 450/330. (Those numbers are very very close to my min assault). I'm pretty sure that if you don'T use a cloak, you'd be able to toss a complex plate or two. Yes, you could put on ferro and blah blah, but these "scouts" want to be hp effectivE more than anything . To fix these absurd numbers I'd suggest nerfing pg/cpu capabilities of the scout, and maybe have hp mods give like half of what they'd normally give (just spit balling) That would turn newer players away from scouts, because of the lack of fitting capabillities w/ cloak field. Dedicated Scout and Nova Knifer.
Yeeeuuuupppp Vengeance Unbound 641	Posted - 2014.10.06 22:25:00 - [93] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Speed. Shield tanks do not sacrifice speed for their tank. As for armor tanking, just stick to ferroscale and reactives. Dual tanking is still very much a possibility The op said 700+ hp. Most if not everyone pointed at thE gal scout. Gal scouts max armor is 750, which is only achieved from 4 complex armor plates. Stacking ferro's, iirc, gets you to just over 600 armor, and reactives just under 600. None of those fits would be viable except maybe the ferro, speed wise. Now, for shield suits, the max you could have is 450 shields which doesn't seem too much (imo). That of course would be the scout,ck.o with 4 complex shields. This is almost a very good fit if it didn't lack ewar . The part where it really gets stupid is when you put 2 enhanced plates, which bumps you up to about 450/330. (Those numbers are very very close to my min assault). I'm pretty sure that if you don'T use a cloak, you'd be able to toss a complex plate or two. Yes, you could put on ferro and blah blah, but these "scouts" want to be hp effectivE more than anything . To fix these absurd numbers I'd suggest nerfing pg/cpu capabilities of the scout, and maybe have hp mods give like half of what they'd normally give (just spit balling) That would turn newer players away from scouts, because of the lack of fitting capabillities w/ cloak field. Nobody said they had to use a cloak "Removed for hurting my feelings" - CCP PSN: GMANCASH Rage Proficiency V
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1904	Posted - 2014.10.06 22:29:00 - [94] - Quote [Ork voice] - Yerrr, shoot dem! "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1017	Posted - 2014.10.06 22:37:00 - [95] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: Cpt McReady wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: It amazes me how stupid some players are and they believe that more hp is always better in this game. My 400 hp scouts wrecks 700 hp scouts and my 990 armor hp ak.0 heavy wrecks 1300 armor hp heavies. Strafing, speed, flanking, using cover, stealth, situational awarness, the ability to aim and land shoots on target and using your eyes to find scouts not the tacnet, are the most important part of this game, not hp. And this is true regardless of the suit you are using. Only bad players brick fit scouts. And only worse players complain about them. Get good and quit your bitching. If you pulled your head from your ass you would realize there are multiple counters to brick fit scouts. so you arguments for scouts being able to do all roles is because you can defeat bad players? 1/10 troll attempt It is obvious you can't read. My argument is that more HP does not make scouts or any dropsuit better. I know players that dampen assault suits and **** face with them. I speed tank heavies and murder brick fit heavies. My dampend scouts slaughter brick fit scouts. HP is the least important stat in this game and if you don't understand why that is true than there is no hope for you. HP is not the least important stat. There is a difference between a 1000+ brick tanked heavy and a 300 eHP scout. Yet that 300 hp scout can use speed and damps to sneak up on and kill that heavy. It is a lot easier for a heavy to kill a brick tanked scout than a fast, sneaky dampened scout. When I run hmg the only scouts I have trouble killing are fast, sneaky ghost scouts. Brick fit scouts are easy to kill with an hmg especially a burst. So again, hp is not as important as players think it is. And complaining about brick fit scouts is laughable since they are the easiest scouts to kill. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Mex-0 G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 72	Posted - 2014.10.07 01:16:00 - [96] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Mex-0 wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: Cpt McReady wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: It amazes me how stupid some players are and they believe that more hp is always better in this game. My 400 hp scouts wrecks 700 hp scouts and my 990 armor hp ak.0 heavy wrecks 1300 armor hp heavies. Strafing, speed, flanking, using cover, stealth, situational awarness, the ability to aim and land shoots on target and using your eyes to find scouts not the tacnet, are the most important part of this game, not hp. And this is true regardless of the suit you are using. Only bad players brick fit scouts. And only worse players complain about them. Get good and quit your bitching. If you pulled your head from your ass you would realize there are multiple counters to brick fit scouts. so you arguments for scouts being able to do all roles is because you can defeat bad players? 1/10 troll attempt It is obvious you can't read. My argument is that more HP does not make scouts or any dropsuit better. I know players that dampen assault suits and **** face with them. I speed tank heavies and murder brick fit heavies. My dampend scouts slaughter brick fit scouts. HP is the least important stat in this game and if you don't understand why that is true than there is no hope for you. HP is not the least important stat. There is a difference between a 1000+ brick tanked heavy and a 300 eHP scout. Yet that 300 hp scout can use speed and damps to sneak up on and kill that heavy. It is a lot easier for a heavy to kill a brick tanked scout than a fast, sneaky dampened scout. When I run hmg the only scouts I have trouble killing are fast, sneaky ghost scouts. Brick fit scouts are easy to kill with an hmg especially a burst. So again, hp is not as important as players think it is. And complaining about brick fit scouts is laughable since they are the easiest scouts to kill. Yeah, It's SOOO easy killing brick tanked heavies. All you have to do is burn through 500 shields and 500 eHP (depending on sentinel type) before he turns around and sprays you dead with his water sprinkler gun. sarcasm off I'm not denying scouts can kill with less than 300 HP. I've played as a scout, and I've been able to kill pretty much every heavy with a full round from my CR and smg. It's the fact that if you are spotted at long range you are dead meat which might be kind of annoying for newbies. Dedicated Scout and Nova Knifer.
gustavo acosta Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 311	Posted - 2014.10.07 01:38:00 - [97] - Quote Ok the issue with scouts is not that they brick tank, well it is, but the real issue arises from how effective they CAN be if they brick tank. It creates inherent imbalance when a suit can do a role outside of their own at a ridiculously effective level. Beyond that it can be suggested that they are rewarded by Brick tanking. 1.The passive bonus given to scouts allows them to remain effective in terms of E-war without any detriment to tank. 2.The high regeneration rates given to the scout suit allows them to tank shields without worrying about adding any regen modules, and the low recharge delays furthers this reward. The same can be said about the gallente scout armor reps to a degree. 3. The extra equipment slot creates even more disparity in the scouts role by allowing to run as an effective logi, though this could be overlooked by the effectiveness bonus that actual logis are given. Currently if issues 1 and 2 are resolved the 3rd issue would be aswell if logis were buffed in some respects(minor tweaks at best). I would also love it if the Assault suit got the regen that the scout suit has currently because it would further the assault's longevity, though it would not be required as long as the scout suit's base regen was lower than the assault's in terms of either-or regen rate, and recharge delay. Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
Orphan Shadow Waiting For Deployment 189	Posted - 2014.10.07 01:52:00 - [98] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: An assault will beat a tanked scout of equal skill every single time. Its a different story if the scout uses ewar and a shotgun Um, in Ballerina 514 the scout of equal skill will always win.
Lloyd Orfay Commando Perkone Caldari State 58	Posted - 2014.10.07 03:23:00 - [99] - Quote I actually have made a little spreadsheet assessing the scoutsuit's functions. Pretty much the suit is one of the role-lacking dropsuits that needs to be re-purposed. Take note that this spreadsheet is only my two cents on what we could do to repurpose it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1v0APKsKWuInIwCdRLxjnhcpOnIMYuwuzPJvEtEGRteE/edit?usp=sharing
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2465	Posted - 2014.10.07 03:27:00 - [100] - Quote Once every 7 matches isn't "out of hand". The highest HP viable scout suit is the gallente scout with double complex plates and double shields. This fit moves slower, has less HP, less damage output, and less regen than a well fitted gallente assault "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor

gustavo acosta Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 312	Posted - 2014.10.07 03:38:00 - [101] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Once every 7 matches isn't "out of hand". The highest HP viable scout suit is the gallente scout with double complex plates and double shields. This fit moves slower, has less HP, less damage output, and less regen than a well fitted gallente assault If you look earlier in the thread Atimm actually made a pretty fast, beefy, and all around good Cal Scout Assault suit with literally NO DRAWBACKS. Need E-war? You have passive E-war don't worry 'bout that none. Need Regen? You have over 30 hp/s base because you're a scout don't worry 'bout dat none. Need Speed? You're a scout you're the fastest suit in the game, don't worry 'bout dat none. Need WP? Be a logi with the 2 equipment slots don't worry 'bout dat none. Need Hp? Stack plates and Extenders the recharge delay is a joke and the Regen is really high, and what else are ya gonna do wit da low slots you already gots passive E-war. Want more damage? Add a damage mod foo what are yu gonna do wit dem high slots E-war?! You best recognize! Wanna run as an Assault suit? Go ahead you got everything you need to be decent+passive invisiblity... (literally no drawbacks) Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
rpastry The Rainbow Effect 246	Posted - 2014.10.07 08:35:00 - [102] - Quote gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Once every 7 matches isn't "out of hand". The highest HP viable scout suit is the gallente scout with double complex plates and double shields. This fit moves slower, has less HP, less damage output, and less regen than a well fitted gallente assault If you look earlier in the thread Atimm actually made a pretty fast, beefy, and all around good Cal Scout Assault suit with literally NO DRAWBACKS. Need E-war? You have passive E-war don't worry 'bout that none. Need Regen? You have over 30 hp/s base because you're a scout don't worry 'bout dat none. Need Speed? You're a scout you're the fastest suit in the game, don't worry 'bout dat none. Need WP? Be a logi with the 2 equipment slots don't worry 'bout dat none. Need Hp? Stack plates and Extenders the recharge delay is a joke and the Regen is really high, and what else are ya gonna do wit da low slots you already gots passive E-war. Want more damage? Add a damage mod foo what are yu gonna do wit dem high slots E-war?! You best recognize! Wanna run as an Assault suit? Go ahead you got everything you need to be decent+passive invisiblity... (literally no drawbacks) no drawbacks until you come up against a 1100hp amarr assault with a scrambler rifle. any assault can fit one complex dampener and negate atiims little 600hp scouts ewar skill. do that on a min assault, add a kincat, and you have a suit that is faster, has more hp, and a 25% bigger clip size. need more hp and dps? put 2 dampeners on a sentinel and see how long 600hp lasts against a hmg so many counters to a 'brick' scout... if you can call 600hp a brick.... a brickette maybe. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 102	Posted - 2014.10.07 08:42:00 - [103] - Quote rpastry wrote: gustavo acosta wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Once every 7 matches isn't "out of hand". The highest HP viable scout suit is the gallente scout with double complex plates and double shields. This fit moves slower, has less HP, less damage output, and less regen than a well fitted gallente assault If you look earlier in the thread Atimm actually made a pretty fast, beefy, and all around good Cal Scout Assault suit with literally NO DRAWBACKS. Need E-war? You have passive E-war don't worry 'bout that none. Need Regen? You have over 30 hp/s base because you're a scout don't worry 'bout dat none. Need Speed? You're a scout you're the fastest suit in the game, don't worry 'bout dat none. Need WP? Be a logi with the 2 equipment slots don't worry 'bout dat none. Need Hp? Stack plates and Extenders the recharge delay is a joke and the Regen is really high, and what else are ya gonna do wit da low slots you already gots passive E-war. Want more damage? Add a damage mod foo what are yu gonna do wit dem high slots E-war?! You best recognize! Wanna run as an Assault suit? Go ahead you got everything you need to be decent+passive invisiblity... (literally no drawbacks) no drawbacks until you come up against a 1100hp amarr assault with a scrambler rifle. any assault can fit one complex dampener and negate atiims little 600hp scouts ewar skill. do that on a min assault, add a kincat, and you have a suit that is faster, has more hp, and a 25% bigger clip size. need more hp and dps? put 2 dampeners on a sentinel and see how long 600hp lasts against a hmg so many counters to a 'brick' scout... if you can call 600hp a brick.... a brickette maybe. your "counters" only work against braindeads. none of your counters work against people with awareness & gungame due to the small hitbox.
rpastry The Rainbow Effect 246	Posted - 2014.10.07 09:02:00 - [104] - Quote bringing in team scan and logis applies to both teams. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 104	Posted - 2014.10.07 13:45:00 - [105] - Quote rpastry wrote: bringing in team scan and logis applies to both teams. except that bringing team scan and logis do nothing against small hitbox and higher strafe speeds combined with the EHP of an ADV assault. try to dance around a HMG with a medium suit, do it again with a scout and note the difference.
Vesta Opalus Kang Lo Holding 44	Posted - 2014.10.07 14:15:00 - [106] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Assault is better at this kind of build than scout by a good margin since the assault hotfix. The only balance issue for scouts currently is unscannable unseeable scouts running around one shotting people, but most people dont seem to care about that.
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1024	Posted - 2014.10.07 16:02:00 - [107] - Quote Cpt McReady wrote: rpastry wrote: bringing in team scan and logis applies to both teams. except that bringing team scan and logis do nothing against small hitbox and higher strafe speeds combined with the EHP of an ADV assault. try to dance around a HMG with a medium suit, do it again with a scout and note the difference. The more you ramble on the more I am convinced you don't actually scout yourself. A brickfit scout will never out dance my hmg and kill me. I will kill him or he will run away. And if by some chance he lucked out and dropped me my very next fit would be a dampened scout and I would stick my knives into the brick fit scouts spine. You are just arguing for the sake of it because you are either trolling or because you are too stupid to realize how easy brick fit scouts are to counter. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
gustavo acosta Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 313	Posted - 2014.10.07 17:31:00 - [108] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Cpt McReady wrote: rpastry wrote: bringing in team scan and logis applies to both teams. except that bringing team scan and logis do nothing against small hitbox and higher strafe speeds combined with the EHP of an ADV assault. try to dance around a HMG with a medium suit, do it again with a scout and note the difference. The more you ramble on the more I am convinced you don't actually scout yourself. A brickfit scout will never out dance my hmg and kill me. I will kill him or he will run away. And if by some chance he lucked out and dropped me my very next fit would be a dampened scout and I would stick my knives into the brick fit scouts spine. You are just arguing for the sake of it because you are either trolling or because you are too stupid to realize how easy brick fit scouts are to counter. Who cares if they're easy to counter? You wouldn't be saying that if assaults could do the same things a scout at the same level. The point is not that bricked scouts are rampant, it's that you can run one as effectively as an assault suit, and a logi fit. I can't run my assault as an effective logi or scout. I can't run my logi as an effective scout. All my heavy can do is HP tank because their base stats are awful, but that's all fine until you get to the scout suit who be as effective if not more effective than an assault or logi suit. Who cares if you can kill them with your heavy or ammar assault. I always used to kill slayer logis like butter, but they were still broken because they could take over another role and were encouraged to do so(because of passive armor reps). The same has happened with the scout except now they're encouraged to be assaults AND logi. This time it's because of ridiculously high regen rates(that are unnecessary considering that scouts shouldn't be tanking), ridiculously low recharge delay times, and passive E-war. (not to mention the second Equipment slot) It's not OP because it can kill things, it's OP because of how versatile it is. Gallente scout, heavy, logi, and assault Eternal Can I haz ur isk?
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 291	Posted - 2014.10.07 17:37:00 - [109] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Assault is better at this kind of build than scout by a good margin since the assault hotfix. The only balance issue for scouts currently is unscannable unseeable scouts running around one shotting people, but most people dont seem to care about that. Sorry, Crimson that your thread turned into a hot-lead shootout in the middle of town---but itGÇÖs a good shootout. I too dislike the annoyance of being popped in the middle of nowhere by a player bopping around under concealment, with a shotgun, whoGÇÖs wearing a Scout Dropsuit that heGÇÖs maligned for run-n-gun purposes (in a game that was always trying NOT to be a run-n-gun lovers fps). (Personally, I even HATE when we say theyGÇÖre GÇ£running ScoutGÇ¥... these players seldom visit the objectives that true scout-players try to control, and hardly ever help guard or counter assets during the matches. Wearing a Scout Dropsuit doesnGÇÖt qualify you to have a respectable word like GÇ£scoutGÇ¥ used anywhere on them. They arenGÇÖt GÇ£scoutGÇ¥-ANYTHING. TheyGÇÖre just the spanky-alfalfa dudes who used to populate CoD,... and GÇ£scoutGÇ¥-shotty or GÇ£scoutGÇ¥-knifey is about the only skill or talent they are able to achieve in an objective-biased game like this.) But I canGÇÖt let my personal prejudice against that kind of player cause me blame some kind of imbalance in our Suits. Dust (via EVE) is about players using their real-world cunning to gimp monies, ambush unfairly, and malign and subvert resources and assets somewhat beyond what was intended. I have to do my best to protect my team from such players, but not ask the devs to do alot to GÇ£fixGÇ¥ what isnGÇÖt really busted. Operating someoneGÇÖs damned fine suit in a corruptible and contemptible way (even in ways that would make others want to spit on them for doing it ), is the New Eden machine (and Dust pimp-able equipment) operating as reasonably intended. One day, OFF the game and OFF these forums, we ought to organize a GÇ£48-hour PurgeGÇ¥. In it, we and the red mercs agree NOT to shoot one another in the matches. The blue mercs simply go hunting only the red GÇ£scoutGÇ¥-shotty/knifersGÇöwhile the righteous red players help point them out to us so we can kill them even when theyGÇÖre cloaked. And vice-versa, we point out where OUR blue GÇ£scoutGÇ¥-shotty/knifers are to the reds, so the reds can hunt down them. Every match, Every match type, for 48 hours. Some of those CoD run-gunners would have the stones to try to fight back in the matches,..but most players would be terrified to visit the game if they know theyGÇÖll be intentionally victimized when they spawn on the map. CCP wouldnGÇÖt stand in our way or stop us,... it would be New Eden operating as reasonably intended. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Mex-0 G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 74	Posted - 2014.10.07 23:58:00 - [110] - Quote Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Mex-0 wrote: Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Yeeeuuuupppp wrote: Speed. Shield tanks do not sacrifice speed for their tank. As for armor tanking, just stick to ferroscale and reactives. Dual tanking is still very much a possibility The op said 700+ hp. Most if not everyone pointed at thE gal scout. Gal scouts max armor is 750, which is only achieved from 4 complex armor plates. Stacking ferro's, iirc, gets you to just over 600 armor, and reactives just under 600. None of those fits would be viable except maybe the ferro, speed wise. Now, for shield suits, the max you could have is 450 shields which doesn't seem too much (imo). That of course would be the scout,ck.o with 4 complex shields. This is almost a very good fit if it didn't lack ewar . The part where it really gets stupid is when you put 2 enhanced plates, which bumps you up to about 450/330. (Those numbers are very very close to my min assault). I'm pretty sure that if you don'T use a cloak, you'd be able to toss a complex plate or two. Yes, you could put on ferro and blah blah, but these "scouts" want to be hp effectivE more than anything . To fix these absurd numbers I'd suggest nerfing pg/cpu capabilities of the scout, and maybe have hp mods give like half of what they'd normally give (just spit balling) That would turn newer players away from scouts, because of the lack of fitting capabillities w/ cloak field. Nobody said they had to use a cloak The ability to use a cloak is pretty appealing to new players. I for one only started scouting again after 1.8 cloak release. I used it to practice sneaking, and after i got better, I gave it up. Dedicated Scout and Nova Knifer.

Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 501	Posted - 2014.10.08 00:01:00 - [111] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano So when everyone cried about the main dropship counter being another dropship... The whole "counter to something is itself" dilemma gets a wrench thrown into it when you realize that in order for that to apply here, in this contex, vlad II would have had to recommend a 700+ eHP scout. I could be wrong, but damps/kincats/precision mods do not modify HP values (you know, with them being biotics and eWAR mods instead of shields/armour). And last time I checked... Tanked scout =/= Completely untanked scout. Unless, of course, one places all scouts as being equal, regardless of DUSTs entire fitting system. But then that begs the question as to why one would single out a specific scout fitting, when fittings are irrelevant... And an Incubus with small rails is the same as a Python with missiles...
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1048	Posted - 2014.10.08 00:02:00 - [112] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Once every 7 matches isn't "out of hand". The highest HP viable scout suit is the gallente scout with double complex plates and double shields. This fit moves slower, has less HP, less damage output, and less regen than a well fitted gallente assault Wat i thot it was the Amarr Scout Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Yeeeuuuupppp Vengeance Unbound 648	Posted - 2014.10.08 00:05:00 - [113] - Quote I prefer scouting pre cloak... I liked the part of knowing how many damps I needed to get under adv scans. (Since the scout sKill took off of your scan profile, it took scout lv 3 and damps lv 4 to be invisible) everything was speed and damp based, it was beautiful. The part where I think they went wrong was the cloak, changing the scout skill to benefit the cloak and giving gal, scouts armor reps.. "Removed for hurting my feelings" - CCP PSN: GMANCASH Rage Proficiency V
Mex-0 G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 74	Posted - 2014.10.08 22:32:00 - [114] - Quote I think the thing that annoys most people is the Scout gk.0 with a shotty and a cloak. The gallente scout's scan profile is so low that only a fraction of players can detect them. Dedicated Scout and Nova Knifer.
hfderrtgvcd 701	Posted - 2014.10.08 22:38:00 - [115] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: I think the thing that annoys most people is the Scout gk.0 with a shotty and a cloak. The gallente scout's scan profile is so low that only a fraction of players can detect them. It has the same profile as the caldari scout. Both can be detected by the active scanner unless they give up a third of their module slots and fit a proto cloak. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Yeeeuuuupppp Vengeance Unbound 653	Posted - 2014.10.08 22:53:00 - [116] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: I think the thing that annoys most people is the Scout gk.0 with a shotty and a cloak. The gallente scout's scan profile is so low that only a fraction of players can detect them. To be truly invisible, 2 complex damps on a gal and poof. Shotguns are so powerful. Too powerful, especially when you have sometHing that makes you invisible.. #Nerf "Removed for hurting my feelings" - CCP PSN: GMANCASH Rage Proficiency V
Henrietta Unknown Nox Lupos 360	Posted - 2014.10.08 23:12:00 - [117] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: I think the thing that annoys most people is the Scout gk.0 with a shotty and a cloak. The gallente scout's scan profile is so low that only a fraction of players can detect them. Not to mention that they can be completely invisible to all scans with two cmplx damps and a proto cloak. I have an alt with Gal to 5 and damps to 5. 1 Cmplx damp gets me by all scans in pubs. Give the Magsex some love.
Mex-0 G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 75	Posted - 2014.10.08 23:54:00 - [118] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Mex-0 wrote: I think the thing that annoys most people is the Scout gk.0 with a shotty and a cloak. The gallente scout's scan profile is so low that only a fraction of players can detect them. It has the same profile as the caldari scout. Both can be detected by the active scanner unless they give up a third of their module slots and fit a proto cloak. The caldari scout has 2 low slots, while the gallente scout has 4 or 5. (I don't remember) It's easier for the Gallente scout to be stealthier. Dedicated Scout and Nova Knifer.
Henrietta Unknown Nox Lupos 361	Posted - 2014.10.09 00:10:00 - [119] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Mex-0 wrote: I think the thing that annoys most people is the Scout gk.0 with a shotty and a cloak. The gallente scout's scan profile is so low that only a fraction of players can detect them. It has the same profile as the caldari scout. Both can be detected by the active scanner unless they give up a third of their module slots and fit a proto cloak. The caldari scout has 2 low slots, while the gallente scout has 4 or 5. (I don't remember) It's easier for the Gallente scout to be stealthier. Easier? Both need two damps and a proto cloak to pass all scans. But since the Gallente relies on armor extenders, it is gimped more so than the Cal Scout, who need not sacrifice the shield extenders in its high slots to pass scans. Now that I've said that, Gallente scouts can still pack a ton of armor when fitting two damps. Give the Magsex some love.
Mex-0 G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 76	Posted - 2014.10.09 00:16:00 - [120] - Quote Henrietta Unknown wrote: Mex-0 wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Mex-0 wrote: I think the thing that annoys most people is the Scout gk.0 with a shotty and a cloak. The gallente scout's scan profile is so low that only a fraction of players can detect them. It has the same profile as the caldari scout. Both can be detected by the active scanner unless they give up a third of their module slots and fit a proto cloak. The caldari scout has 2 low slots, while the gallente scout has 4 or 5. (I don't remember) It's easier for the Gallente scout to be stealthier. Easier? Both need two damps and a proto cloak to pass all scans. But since the Gallente relies on armor extenders, it is gimped more so than the Cal Scout, who need not sacrifice the shield extenders in its high slots to pass scans. Now that I've said that, Gallente scouts can still pack a ton of armor when fitting two damps. Yeah... except for maybe the fact that the calscout has to sacrafice its armor. If you get fluxed in that fit, then well you're screwed. I run a complex reactive plates with a complex damp on my calscout. it works fine in most pubs/fw, Dedicated Scout and Nova Knifer.

Henrietta Unknown Nox Lupos 361	Posted - 2014.10.09 00:21:00 - [121] - Quote So that's why scouts who survive should be aware of things like grenades. Not to say that I also run with one cmplx reactive, but also a cmplx range instead of dampening mod. Hasn't caused me problems just yet. Or you know, pack a Compact or K-17 Nanohive. Give the Magsex some love.
Mex-0 G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 76	Posted - 2014.10.09 00:23:00 - [122] - Quote Henrietta Unknown wrote: So that's why scouts who survive should be aware of things like grenades. Not to say that I also run with one cmplx reactive, but also a cmplx range instead of dampening mod. Hasn't caused me problems just yet. Or you know, pack a Compact or K-17 Nanohive. I move around alot, so the nanohives don't really work for me. Somtimes i just get logi'd by a corp member. Dedicated Scout and Nova Knifer.
hfderrtgvcd 702	Posted - 2014.10.09 00:34:00 - [123] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: Henrietta Unknown wrote: Mex-0 wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Mex-0 wrote: I think the thing that annoys most people is the Scout gk.0 with a shotty and a cloak. The gallente scout's scan profile is so low that only a fraction of players can detect them. It has the same profile as the caldari scout. Both can be detected by the active scanner unless they give up a third of their module slots and fit a proto cloak. The caldari scout has 2 low slots, while the gallente scout has 4 or 5. (I don't remember) It's easier for the Gallente scout to be stealthier. Easier? Both need two damps and a proto cloak to pass all scans. But since the Gallente relies on armor extenders, it is gimped more so than the Cal Scout, who need not sacrifice the shield extenders in its high slots to pass scans. Now that I've said that, Gallente scouts can still pack a ton of armor when fitting two damps. Yeah... except for maybe the fact that the calscout has to sacrafice its armor. If you get fluxed in that fit, then well you're screwed. I run a complex reactive plates with a complex damp on my calscout. it works fine in most pubs/fw, If you get fluxed in a shotgun scout you're doing something wrong. Also, if a gal scout get hit with a locus its almost always an ohk You can't fight in here! This is the war room.


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