DUST Search - Can we PLEASE do something about tanked scouts?

valad II wrote:

Vicious Minotaur wrote:

Derpty Derp wrote:

valad II wrote:

Crimson Cerberes wrote:

700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand.

Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head.

G-1 Series Scout
2complex damps
1 Complex Kincat
2 Complex Precision Enhancers
K5 Spec. Shotgun
TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too.
Adv Cloak
Compact Nano

So when everyone cried about the main dropship counter being another dropship...

The whole "counter to something is itself" dilemma gets a wrench thrown into it when you realize that in order for that to apply here, in this contex, vlad II would have had to recommend a 700+ eHP scout. I could be wrong, but damps/kincats/precision mods do not modify HP values (you know, with them being biotics and eWAR mods instead of shields/armour).

And last time I checked... Tanked scout =/= Completely untanked scout. Unless, of course, one places all scouts as being equal, regardless of DUSTs entire fitting system. But then that begs the question as to why one would single out a specific scout fitting, when fittings are irrelevant...

Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter.

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Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 605	Posted - 2014.10.05 20:49:00 - [1] - Quote 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
Atiim 12755	Posted - 2014.10.05 20:55:00 - [2] - Quote How dare you suggest that I have to sacrifice something!? The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4605	Posted - 2014.10.05 20:56:00 - [3] - Quote It was out of hand between 1.8 and Charlie. Now it is a minor annoyance, with many slayers finding the Assaults preferable when playing the role. You can always tell a Millford Minja
valad II NoGameNoLife 213	Posted - 2014.10.05 20:56:00 - [4] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4606	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:00:00 - [5] - Quote valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano Or he could just squad with someone who has a scout with some precision so they show up on his tacnet and can't sneak up on him. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 605	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:02:00 - [6] - Quote Why should it, the Rail rifle doesn't exchange anything for being long range, the bolt pistol exchanges nothing for being long range and insanely high damaging, and the scout suit is just insane at everything, at the same time. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 605	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:03:00 - [7] - Quote valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano Best counter is the counter itself eh? "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4606	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:06:00 - [8] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano Best counter is the counter itself eh? He was suggesting an untanked scout, but really, you could just use an active scanner if you didn't want to rely on a scout, because tanking that much means a dampening sacrifice. You can always tell a Millford Minja
valad II NoGameNoLife 214	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:07:00 - [9] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano Best counter is the counter itself eh? For that situation probably. It is best to move undected. Unless you run into a gal logi running proto scanner.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 606	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:12:00 - [10] - Quote IF the best way to counter a scout is to use a scout... well then there is a problem. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those

shaman oga S.W.A.G. of J.E.B.U.S. 2905	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:16:00 - [11] - Quote I haven't many problem with tanked scouts, i have more problem with non-tanked ones. BTW, i agree, tank module should increase hitbox. Each suit can have a fixed value which represent their hitbox another number which represent maximum delta between their hitbox without tank and their hitbox at full tank, the bigger is this number the more the hitbox can be raised. Scout would have a greater number, assault a medium number and heavies a little number because their hitbox is already large and their role imply tanking (generally). PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
howard sanchez 965	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:18:00 - [12] - Quote Crimson Cerberes wrote: IF the best way to counter a scout is to use a scout... well then there is a problem. Funny, I thought that was what the op was proposing...limiting the variety of how drop suits can be fitted. ...
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3570	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:22:00 - [13] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: It was out of hand between 1.8 and Charlie. Now it is a minor annoyance, with many slayers finding the Assaults preferable when playing the role. Devoted assault merc here. Still not seeing very much reason for playing an assault instead of scout. Same weapon options, two equipment slots, smaller hitbox, much faster walk/sprint speeds, faster stamina regen, vastly superior ewar, cloaking bonuses. Cons: smaller intial eHP. The assault dropsuit passives are good on the Amarr, mediorce on the Caldari and Minmatar, and right next to silly on the Gallente. I'm not asking for scouts to be nerfed. I just want them balanced to be better at their recon/hacking role and assaults be better at mobile fireteam tactics. My advice to you, playa...
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix 607	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:37:00 - [14] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: IF the best way to counter a scout is to use a scout... well then there is a problem. Funny, I thought that was what the op was proposing...limiting the variety of how drop suits can be fitted. So, I guess that mean you conceed the point, as I see no argument against scouts being the very best suit for: Dampening Precision Scan Range Sprint Speed Jumping Walking speed Terran mobility Endurance Shield Regen Hitbox Fitting versatility Cloaking Oh and they do the same amount of damage as: Logistics Assaults Basic Suits Anything else using light weapons (commandos aside) With the same or more equipment slots than: Amarr logi Assaults Commandos Sentinels Basic suits Oh, but they have less HP....... maybe. Of course If you figure HP/hitbox volume I bet that they are among the best. "We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
Magnus Amadeuss Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1123	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:39:00 - [15] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: One Eyed King wrote: It was out of hand between 1.8 and Charlie. Now it is a minor annoyance, with many slayers finding the Assaults preferable when playing the role. Devoted assault merc here. Still not seeing very much reason for playing an assault instead of scout. Same weapon options, two equipment slots, smaller hitbox, much faster walk/sprint speeds, faster stamina regen, vastly superior ewar, cloaking bonuses. Cons: smaller intial eHP. The assault dropsuit passives are good on the Amarr, mediorce on the Caldari and Minmatar, and right next to silly on the Gallente. I'm not asking for scouts to be nerfed. I just want them balanced to be better at their recon/hacking role and assaults be better at mobile fireteam tactics. No, people need to stop saying the amarr assault has a good bonus. The amarr assault allows you to use the scrambler and laser... otherwise those weapons are horrible. The amarr assault should not be the only suit in the game that can use those weapons. Fixing swarms
farmer 88 Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.10.05 21:39:00 - [16] - Quote a higher movement speed penalty for scouts fitting armor plate moduels. btw caldari hitbox wtf. this logi is getting lonely with this being the age of the scout, 80% of the battle field is scouts because its the most effective role. why have choices if all but one sucks. 07
Bax Zanith 199	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:16:00 - [17] - Quote Iv been comparing each races assault stats to its scout stats. There are three things the assault dos better than the scout, shield, armor and melee damage (Gscout has more melee than Gassault). Everything ells belongs to scouts. I still have more work to do before I can say for sure if the scout can do the assault's job or not. That is, if any of you care for balance enough to lend a hand. They didn't die from the cold without They died from the cold within. - James Patrick Kinney
hfderrtgvcd 651	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:20:00 - [18] - Quote An assault will beat a tanked scout of equal skill every single time. Its a different story if the scout uses ewar and a shotgun You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 492	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:26:00 - [19] - Quote valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano So when everyone cried about the main dropship counter being another dropship...
valad II NoGameNoLife 218	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:33:00 - [20] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano So when everyone cried about the main dropship counter being another dropship... That argument doesn't even make sense. I never heard that. Dropships can be countered by any numerous AV tactics. Forges are my favorite. Swarms are pretty fun now.

Vicious Minotaur 1195	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:39:00 - [21] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano So when everyone cried about the main dropship counter being another dropship... The whole "counter to something is itself" dilemma gets a wrench thrown into it when you realize that in order for that to apply here, in this contex, vlad II would have had to recommend a 700+ eHP scout. I could be wrong, but damps/kincats/precision mods do not modify HP values (you know, with them being biotics and eWAR mods instead of shields/armour). And last time I checked... Tanked scout =/= Completely untanked scout. Unless, of course, one places all scouts as being equal, regardless of DUSTs entire fitting system. But then that begs the question as to why one would single out a specific scout fitting, when fittings are irrelevant... I am a minotaur.
valad II NoGameNoLife 218	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:45:00 - [22] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano So when everyone cried about the main dropship counter being another dropship... The whole "counter to something is itself" dilemma gets a wrench thrown into it when you realize that in order for that to apply here, in this contex, vlad II would have had to recommend a 700+ eHP scout. I could be wrong, but damps/kincats/precision mods do not modify HP values (you know, with them being biotics and eWAR mods instead of shields/armour). And last time I checked... Tanked scout =/= Completely untanked scout. Unless, of course, one places all scouts as being equal, regardless of DUSTs entire fitting system. But then that begs the question as to why one would single out a specific scout fitting, when fittings are irrelevant... Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 948	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:48:00 - [23] - Quote sadly untill tanked OP assault-lite scouts get F'd with a spikey nerf-bat where the sun does not shine.. my alts will be abuseing the hell out of it as revenge for all the rage i feel about there being like 80% scouts and 1 token assault suit. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 948	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:49:00 - [24] - Quote valad II wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano So when everyone cried about the main dropship counter being another dropship... The whole "counter to something is itself" dilemma gets a wrench thrown into it when you realize that in order for that to apply here, in this contex, vlad II would have had to recommend a 700+ eHP scout. I could be wrong, but damps/kincats/precision mods do not modify HP values (you know, with them being biotics and eWAR mods instead of shields/armour). And last time I checked... Tanked scout =/= Completely untanked scout. Unless, of course, one places all scouts as being equal, regardless of DUSTs entire fitting system. But then that begs the question as to why one would single out a specific scout fitting, when fittings are irrelevant... Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter. of gal logi suit 5 and focused active scanner.. i think only the 100% ewar scouts (ie real scouts) can avoid detection from it. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3571	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:54:00 - [25] - Quote valad II wrote: Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter. The counter to paper is not paper, the counter to rock isn't rock, the counter to scissors isn't more ******* scissors. Your argument is invalid. My advice to you, playa...
Vicious Minotaur 1195	Posted - 2014.10.05 22:56:00 - [26] - Quote valad II wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: valad II wrote: Crimson Cerberes wrote: 700+ eHP with a tiny hitbox is better than having 1200 HP and a huge hitbox. This is getting out of hand. Yes you can. Run 2complex damps. They obviously arent running Ewar mods. Be stealth & shotgun them to the back of the head. G-1 Series Scout 2complex damps 1 Complex Kincat 2 Complex Precision Enhancers K5 Spec. Shotgun TLO ( I think) Scrambler pistol or the Breach is hiting them Cald. pretty hard now too. Adv Cloak Compact Nano So when everyone cried about the main dropship counter being another dropship... The whole "counter to something is itself" dilemma gets a wrench thrown into it when you realize that in order for that to apply here, in this contex, vlad II would have had to recommend a 700+ eHP scout. I could be wrong, but damps/kincats/precision mods do not modify HP values (you know, with them being biotics and eWAR mods instead of shields/armour). And last time I checked... Tanked scout =/= Completely untanked scout. Unless, of course, one places all scouts as being equal, regardless of DUSTs entire fitting system. But then that begs the question as to why one would single out a specific scout fitting, when fittings are irrelevant... Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter. ....what? People are bringing up the idea that the counter to something should not be itself. (and directed that idea at what you said) I simply mentioned that countering a tanked scout with an untanked, eWAR scout does not fit with the idea of "The counter to something is itself." Because, again, Tanked scout =/= Completely untanked scout, which is directed at the aforementioned idea. (being: the counter to something should never be itself) In order for that idea to apply, it would have to have been 700eHP scout vs. 700eHP scout, which, given what has been said, is not at all applicable (because you suggested an eWAR scout). To put it simply, I was agreeing with you. I am a minotaur.
valad II NoGameNoLife 220	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:00:00 - [27] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: valad II wrote: Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter. The counter to paper is not paper, the counter to rock isn't rock, the counter to scissors isn't more ******* scissors. Your argument is invalid. WOW all this bullsh!t you spew and you dont provide one answer. Good job. Real productive. You saying my argument is invalid because of paper, rock, scissors doesn't prove that my argument is infact invalid. More less proves my point because you provide sh!t else of evidence or solutions. Nice fallacy you provided.
valad II NoGameNoLife 220	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:02:00 - [28] - Quote Vicious Minotaur, I apologize. I misread it.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 952	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:35:00 - [29] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: valad II wrote: Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter. The counter to paper is not paper, the counter to rock isn't rock, the counter to scissors isn't more ***** scissors. Your argument is invalid. depends.. if your talking ORE.. then diamond as an ORE can break all other rock :P [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 2 Forum Pariah**
valad II NoGameNoLife 223	Posted - 2014.10.05 23:39:00 - [30] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: valad II wrote: Counter to scout with 700+hp is not another scout with 700+hp. A counter would be dampening and precision, with speed. Thats why it is called a counter. The counter to paper is not paper, the counter to rock isn't rock, the counter to scissors isn't more ******* scissors. Your argument is invalid. depends.. if your talking ORE.. then diamond as an ORE can break all other rock :P Sharmin butthole paper or heavy duty construction paper that has complex armor plates? I like sharmin, it doesn't leave any dingle berries.



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