DUST Search - Sticky:Hotfix Delta

Cat Merc wrote:

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

Looking at the pistols alone, it looks like you completely forgot that the SCP has a MASSIVE headshot bonus that overshadows any advantage any of the other pistols have.

Looking at the SMG.... still king... in every way.

Pistols in general are still terrible. There is no reason to use one instead of an SMG, except for maybe the Flaylock, because it will be a kill-viable equipment clearer now.

I've said it before. Pistols should be high DPS, low Magazine size, and unforgiving of missed shots. The very opposite of spray n pray.
SMGs should be all about spray n pray.

Still, it looks to me that the IoP will be the best pistol now. Oversampling will cut the practical DPS of the ScP in half, and the fact that the IoP will have enough RoF to prevent oversampling for the most part is a larger advantage than the headshot multiplier will ever be.

Tl;dr
Pistols are still ****, across the board. SMGs still the best, with the Breach SMG looking to be the best sidearm due to its increased ammo efficiency.

Meh, doubt that the IoP will be the best.
That headshot multiplier cannot be underestimated.
And the ROF isn't quite high enough to not have oversampling.
TAR has 400RPM and I still oversample it HARD, I don't think an extra 50RPM will turn it from HARD to None.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3279	Posted - 2014.09.16 19:38:00 - [31] - Quote Assault sidearms with higher range and lower dps and breach weaponry with lower range and higher dps. Please figure out a naming convention and make it consistent across different weapon types. Also... lower rof + lower range = bad weapon design. You want low RoF in long range scenario where TTK is higher and you are concerned about DPC and bullet efficiency. In CQC you want high RoF to maximize applied dps in situations where each player has a high transversal velocity. Please consider this and fix poor game design decisions made in the past with the release of these weapon variants... or at least forward this on so it can be fixed in Legion... B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 225	Posted - 2014.09.16 19:44:00 - [32] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: Guys. The Flaylock is back. Increased direct damage, increased splash, increased blast radius on std and adv. and an increased projectile speed. Wow. Amazing, but that pg though crazy. The Blazing Intellect Machine
Syeven Reed Sebiestor Field Sappers 876	Posted - 2014.09.16 19:58:00 - [33] - Quote Can I just say, those charts are fantastic! Word Crimes EvE - 21 Day Buddy Trial
hfderrtgvcd 400	Posted - 2014.09.16 20:09:00 - [34] - Quote You forgot to account for the charge time before every shot when calculating the bolt pistol dps. It still needs a sizable buff to be on par with the other sidearms. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 273	Posted - 2014.09.16 20:29:00 - [35] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Looking at the pistols alone, it looks like you completely forgot that the SCP has a MASSIVE headshot bonus that overshadows any advantage any of the other pistols have. Looking at the SMG.... still king... in every way. Pistols in general are still terrible. There is no reason to use one instead of an SMG, except for maybe the Flaylock, because it will be a kill-viable equipment clearer now. I've said it before. Pistols should be high DPS, low Magazine size, and unforgiving of missed shots. The very opposite of spray n pray. SMGs should be all about spray n pray. Still, it looks to me that the IoP will be the best pistol now. Oversampling will cut the practical DPS of the ScP in half, and the fact that the IoP will have enough RoF to prevent oversampling for the most part is a larger advantage than the headshot multiplier will ever be. Tl;dr Pistols are still ****, across the board. SMGs still the best, with the Breach SMG looking to be the best sidearm due to its increased ammo efficiency.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 511	Posted - 2014.09.16 20:31:00 - [36] - Quote Reactions: First of all great job, good work overall, and thanks. 1) I'm reaaaallllly worried that the Flaylock will be OP again. AOE used to be 2.5, now it will be 2.06. That sounds just right. But the damage is scary. Now 193, at Prof 4 it will be destroying armor at 260 dmg per rocket, with now 4 rockets in the clip. So a scout could quickly dispatch most suits (once down to armor) with one or two hits. He could take out a proto Amarr sentinal's armor with one clip. I don't want the days of flaylock dominance to return....and that was before scouts were OP! 2) Good changes to the SMG. The breach is now a usable weapon! Huzzah! 3) Can't wait to try the Magsec with reduced ADS kick! It will be hopefully be able to do its job now. 4) Ion pistol looks great. We'll see. Hopefully it will be amazing. But worried about the flaylock!!!!
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 472	Posted - 2014.09.16 20:40:00 - [37] - Quote What is with those graphs? What am I looking at? Label your axes, dammit! Anyways, this looks kind of shaky. Guess we'll have to get hands-on to see how it all pans out. But what's with the bolt pistol? It pretty much got a minor nerf in one area and minor buff in another, making it roughly the same as before. Am I missing something? Stabby-stabber extraordinaire
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 28	Posted - 2014.09.16 20:44:00 - [38] - Quote Changes look like they're going the right way. I do however have a concern. I was a breach scrambler pistol user on my scout. I used it because of high alpha and low PG cost. Right now there are no more sidearms at all that will fit in 2 PG. All my fits are broken and I am not sure what alternative to take. I realize this is probably intentional, but having a low PG option (at least one) was healthy, even if the weapon underperformed (like the scrambler pistol).
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12223	Posted - 2014.09.16 20:49:00 - [39] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Looking at the pistols alone, it looks like you completely forgot that the SCP has a MASSIVE headshot bonus that overshadows any advantage any of the other pistols have. Looking at the SMG.... still king... in every way. Pistols in general are still terrible. There is no reason to use one instead of an SMG, except for maybe the Flaylock, because it will be a kill-viable equipment clearer now. I've said it before. Pistols should be high DPS, low Magazine size, and unforgiving of missed shots. The very opposite of spray n pray. SMGs should be all about spray n pray. Still, it looks to me that the IoP will be the best pistol now. Oversampling will cut the practical DPS of the ScP in half, and the fact that the IoP will have enough RoF to prevent oversampling for the most part is a larger advantage than the headshot multiplier will ever be. Tl;dr Pistols are still ****, across the board. SMGs still the best, with the Breach SMG looking to be the best sidearm due to its increased ammo efficiency. Meh, doubt that the IoP will be the best. That headshot multiplier cannot be underestimated. And the ROF isn't quite high enough to not have oversampling. TAR has 400RPM and I still oversample it HARD, I don't think an extra 50RPM will turn it from HARD to None. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Spademan Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 3622	Posted - 2014.09.16 21:01:00 - [40] - Quote Okay, happy with the Assault variants of weapons. I think it's a really good thing that they've been changed. Not happy with Ion Pistol, I'm pretty disappointed there. More RoF is nice and tighter dispersion is nice, but I feel like it needs more oomph per shot. As the shortest ranged weapon I feel like it needs to be more deadly. Three questions though, is that under a third of the charge time? If so I quite like the look of it. Heat, can I fire more than one charge shot before I overheat? Seize, how much has that been reduced and is it still harmless? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community

shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2815	Posted - 2014.09.16 21:28:00 - [41] - Quote I would give 2 more shots per clip to the bolt pistol. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
PLAYSTTION GamersForChrist 204	Posted - 2014.09.16 21:29:00 - [42] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: Guys. The Flaylock is back. nope i can't fit it anymore DONT RAISE THE PG!!! 44/4 in a BPO Scout (1.8) 40/5 in a Proto Assault (1.7) Open Beta Vet 27mil sp R.I.P Dust 514
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 274	Posted - 2014.09.16 21:33:00 - [43] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Looking at the pistols alone, it looks like you completely forgot that the SCP has a MASSIVE headshot bonus that overshadows any advantage any of the other pistols have. Looking at the SMG.... still king... in every way. Pistols in general are still terrible. There is no reason to use one instead of an SMG, except for maybe the Flaylock, because it will be a kill-viable equipment clearer now. I've said it before. Pistols should be high DPS, low Magazine size, and unforgiving of missed shots. The very opposite of spray n pray. SMGs should be all about spray n pray. Still, it looks to me that the IoP will be the best pistol now. Oversampling will cut the practical DPS of the ScP in half, and the fact that the IoP will have enough RoF to prevent oversampling for the most part is a larger advantage than the headshot multiplier will ever be. Tl;dr Pistols are still ****, across the board. SMGs still the best, with the Breach SMG looking to be the best sidearm due to its increased ammo efficiency. Meh, doubt that the IoP will be the best. That headshot multiplier cannot be underestimated. And the ROF isn't quite high enough to not have oversampling. TAR has 400RPM and I still oversample it HARD, I don't think an extra 50RPM will turn it from HARD to None. I said mostly. It will still os, but much less frequently. I think the RoF on all hitscan semiautomatics should be equalized to 600, even the sniper. The limiting factor for a semiautomatic should be its kick, not an artificial feeling RoF limiter. If you want me to fire slower with a weapon, make it kick. That way, I'll fire when the weapon is back on target, and not oversample because there is no way to know when the weapon is ready to go again.
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 606	Posted - 2014.09.16 21:45:00 - [44] - Quote Minnie screwed once again - that PG increase on the flaylock is insane for the race that is supposed to use it. I hope the skill is changed back to PG reduction instead of CPU reduction. "Shine bright like a diamond"
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2231	Posted - 2014.09.16 21:55:00 - [45] - Quote I would not have buffed the Flaylok like that....but i'll take it PSN: RationalSpark
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 4117	Posted - 2014.09.16 22:21:00 - [46] - Quote Erm i dont want to spoil it but what exactly is the bolt pistol good for? ive compared it with the breach scrambler pistol. So lets compare the proto bolt pistol wtith the standard scrambler pistol. Bolt pisto (proto!): -Rate of fire =150 -damage= 154.35HP -clip size= 6 -CPU= 55 -PG= 10 Brech scrambler pistol (standard): -Rate of fire= 150 -damage= 180HP -clip size= 6 -CPU= 28 -PG= 7 So please explain me why the hell should i spec into bolt pistols? Scrambler pistols aswell gain like 400% headshot bonus which no other gun in the game has, ther operation adds +1 round to the clip and i dont need to worry about the spool up time from the bolt pistol. So the breach scrambler is easy to fit, does more damage, has a bigger clip size (with the skillbook) and handles better (point and shot) They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
hfderrtgvcd 401	Posted - 2014.09.16 22:27:00 - [47] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Erm i dont want to spoil it but what exactly is the bolt pistol good for? ive compared it with the breach scrambler pistol. So lets compare the proto bolt pistol wtith the standard scrambler pistol. Bolt pisto (proto!): -Rate of fire =150 -damage= 154.35HP -clip size= 6 -CPU= 55 -PG= 10 Brech scrambler pistol (standard): -Rate of fire= 150 -damage= 180HP -clip size= 6 -CPU= 28 -PG= 7 So please explain me why the hell should i spec into bolt pistols? Scrambler pistols aswell gain like 400% headshot bonus which no other gun in the game has, ther operation adds +1 round to the clip and i dont need to worry about the spool up time from the bolt pistol. So the breach scrambler is easy to fit, does more damage, has a bigger clip size (with the skillbook) and handles better (point and shot) The bolt pistol also has to be charged up before each shot and has a pitifully low clip size. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
mollerz 5342	Posted - 2014.09.16 22:43:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: I'm gonna be horribly rude here..one of the worst designed spreadsheets I've ever seen. As to the numbers, they seem interesting. My MCC SP will probably go to Protoing my remaining sidearms. Nope, it is a thing of structured beauty, much like a Taj Mahal happy meal lego set missing a piece. FTFY I'm seriously fukn serious
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 149	Posted - 2014.09.16 22:47:00 - [49] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Erm i dont want to spoil it but what exactly is the bolt pistol good for? ive compared it with the breach scrambler pistol. So lets compare the proto bolt pistol wtith the standard scrambler pistol. Bolt pisto (proto!): -Rate of fire =150 -damage= 154.35HP -clip size= 6 -CPU= 55 -PG= 10 Brech scrambler pistol (standard): -Rate of fire= 150 -damage= 180HP -clip size= 6 -CPU= 28 -PG= 7 So please explain me why the hell should i spec into bolt pistols? Scrambler pistols aswell gain like 400% headshot bonus which no other gun in the game has, ther operation adds +1 round to the clip and i dont need to worry about the spool up time from the bolt pistol. So the breach scrambler is easy to fit, does more damage, has a bigger clip size (with the skillbook) and handles better (point and shot) The bolt pistol also doesnt register now and then like all the rail weapons.
mollerz 5342	Posted - 2014.09.16 22:49:00 - [50] - Quote The minja PG is more screwed than ever. shrug. I'm seriously fukn serious

Glitch116 Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 145	Posted - 2014.09.16 22:49:00 - [51] - Quote **** YEAH FLAYLOCKS BACK BABY! now to actual read the rest I AM THE KING OF THE BLASTER!!! deal with it
Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 634	Posted - 2014.09.16 22:50:00 - [52] - Quote Bolt Pistol still looks a bit underwhelming to be honest. I don't think the additional range is good enough to make it competitive, especially compared to the Breach ScP. With the current ROF it takes 4.5 seconds to go from pulling the trigger to emptying the clip. That means your theoretical 386 DPS really will be more like ~205 DPS. My proposal would be to increase the range to an effective range of 72m (maybe even leave optimal range as it is, or increase hip-fire spread slightly) and the damage to 180 giving it an actual DPS of 240. If you deem this too powerful then maybe we could reduce the clipsize to 5 shots so that the damage per clip stays <1000. In its current state I really don't see why anyone would pick the Bolt Pistol over one of the other sidearms. If I wanted a sidearm with a bit more range I'd rather pick the Magsec or ScP. But with an additional range the BoP would really become an option for those who need a sidearm with a long range and it would become kinda unique amongst the other sidearms. Paying customer. // @JebusMcKing
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 861	Posted - 2014.09.16 22:55:00 - [53] - Quote Things are looking very nice, Rattati, but I'll admit, I'm a bit sad to not see the proto Breach and Burst Scrambler Pistols. Nova Knives are best sidearm.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7222	Posted - 2014.09.16 23:04:00 - [54] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: You forgot to account for the charge time before every shot when calculating the bolt pistol dps. It still needs a sizable buff to be on par with the other sidearms. Agreed "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7224	Posted - 2014.09.16 23:10:00 - [55] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: What is with those graphs? What am I looking at? Label your axes, dammit! Anyways, this looks kind of shaky. Guess we'll have to get hands-on to see how it all pans out. But what's with the bolt pistol? It pretty much got a minor nerf in one area and minor buff in another, making it roughly the same as before. Am I missing something? The Bolt Pistol, reading through most of the discussions, didn't get any complaints except for us to check on the absolute range again. Feel free to add comments, I need to fix. Does increased headcount damage for ALL pistols make sense? maybe not 450% but we can scale it. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Kanku Dycia Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2014.09.16 23:15:00 - [56] - Quote @CCP Rattati Higher headshot modifiers with a flaylock?....I would love to try my hand at that. The ultimate OHK 'skillshot.'
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 149	Posted - 2014.09.16 23:25:00 - [57] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: What is with those graphs? What am I looking at? Label your axes, dammit! Anyways, this looks kind of shaky. Guess we'll have to get hands-on to see how it all pans out. But what's with the bolt pistol? It pretty much got a minor nerf in one area and minor buff in another, making it roughly the same as before. Am I missing something? The Bolt Pistol, reading through most of the discussions, didn't get any complaints except for us to check on the absolute range again. Feel free to add comments, I need to fix. Does increased headcount damage for ALL pistols make sense? maybe not 450% but we can scale it. Range is the only thing the bolt pistol has over other sidearms. Leave the range as is, and can you guys test the range on it now, i really dont believe it reaches 72 meters. Also hit detections pretty bad on it like all other rail weapons.
Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 634	Posted - 2014.09.16 23:27:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The Bolt Pistol, reading through most of the discussions, didn't get any complaints except for us to check on the absolute range again. Feel free to add comments, I need to fix. Does increased headcount damage for ALL pistols make sense? maybe not 450% but we can scale it. Maybe not enough people are using the BoP to get a reasonable amount of opinions on it. Also I guess the discussions about IoP and Flaylock kinda overshadowed the BoP. I'd rather see a significant range and damage buff to the BoP than a CPU/PG buff. I kinda like that the increased headshot bonus is a ScP-only thing. Makes it different from other Pistols. Paying customer. // @JebusMcKing

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7227	Posted - 2014.09.16 23:52:00 - [59] - Quote I actually watched this video a month ago, and it was impressive, but it's obviously a niche weapon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4pB4coPpH0 "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK Intrepidus XI EoN. 213	Posted - 2014.09.16 23:54:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: What is with those graphs? What am I looking at? Label your axes, dammit! Anyways, this looks kind of shaky. Guess we'll have to get hands-on to see how it all pans out. But what's with the bolt pistol? It pretty much got a minor nerf in one area and minor buff in another, making it roughly the same as before. Am I missing something? The Bolt Pistol, reading through most of the discussions, didn't get any complaints except for us to check on the absolute range again. Feel free to add comments, I need to fix. Does increased headcount damage for ALL pistols make sense? maybe not 450% but we can scale it. If anything the bolt pistol should have the highest headshot multiplier to offset the spool up time and reward more risky skill shots. Bolt Pistol - 400% Scrambler pistol - 300% Ion pistol - 200% Planetside 2 Eventually Eh



Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page