DUST Search - ADS=unescapable, uncounterable death for tanks

All Channels

General Discussions

ADS=unescapable, uncounterable death for tanks

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1551	Posted - 2014.08.18 11:53:00 - [1] - Quote Played on my tank alt for a couple of hours. Think I'm beginning to understand how it is that tankers are frustrated even though they seem to be able to dominate the battlefield. AV and enemy tanks put up a decent fight but I managed to keep my tank in one piece (killed six tanks in one battle). I only died twice, both times to the same ADS pilot (in different battles). I couldn't really see how I could do anything differently - once they're above you (which is instantly) you're toast, hardeners just extend the agony of being pecked to death The only 'counters' I came up with were: 1) Stay near the redline so you have a half chance of escaping. 2) Use cheaper tank (lower tier turret or militia hull) so when an ADS inevitably kills you it doesn't cost so much. Obviously neither of those things are actually counters, they're basically just ways of accepting defeat. If ADSes were a specific anti-tank weapon this wouldn't be so bad, but they terrorize infantry just as much. The only thing that is even slightly effective against an ADS is a forge gun, and even then the pilot can choose to escape if they wish. There is nothing (apart from another dropship) that is a true counter to an ADS, i.e. a mortal threat even to a competent pilot. And in any case a forge gunner is giving up a lot to offer that minor threat. They are sitting ducks for any other infantry. An ADS isn't a sitting duck for anything, it dominates almost everything and even has a good chance against its supposed counter. How to fix this? For that kind of power, an ADS should have SOME vulnerabilities. Obviously a reduction in ADS HP is one option, so AV can counter more effectively. An increase to large railgun range and railgun modifier power would be another possibility, so ADSes couldn't hover indefinitely without risk. At any rate, something should be done. I only have 200 kills on my tank alt and usually play as a scout, so I die very rarely to ADSes (low profile+cloak=ADS don't see me). So it doesn't really affect me personally. But it is a glaring imbalance in what is otherwise a pretty balanced game now.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2749	Posted - 2014.08.18 11:58:00 - [2] - Quote Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2700	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:05:00 - [3] - Quote Step 1. Mount little turrets on your HAV Step 2. Acquire a friendly forge (or two, the second is optional) Step 3. Harvest tears from DS pilots. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communists who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items" LOCK REGIONS
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1552	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:07:00 - [4] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Step 1. Mount little turrets on your HAV Step 2. Acquire a friendly forge (or two, the second is optional) Step 3. Harvest tears from DS pilots. Multiple tank crew should not be required to counter one ADS pilot.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 297	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:08:00 - [5] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Played on my tank alt for a couple of hours. Think I'm beginning to understand how it is that tankers are frustrated even though they seem to be able to dominate the battlefield. AV and enemy tanks put up a decent fight but I managed to keep my tank in one piece (killed six tanks in one battle). I only died twice, both times to the same ADS pilot (in different battles). I couldn't really see how I could do anything differently - once they're above you (which is instantly) you're toast, hardeners just extend the agony of being pecked to death The only 'counters' I came up with were: 1) Stay near the redline so you have a half chance of escaping. 2) Use cheaper tank (lower tier turret or militia hull) so when an ADS inevitably kills you it doesn't cost so much. Obviously neither of those things are actually counters, they're basically just ways of accepting defeat. If ADSes were a specific anti-tank weapon this wouldn't be so bad, but they terrorize infantry just as much. The only thing that is even slightly effective against an ADS is a forge gun, and even then the pilot can choose to escape if they wish. There is nothing (apart from another dropship) that is a true counter to an ADS, i.e. a mortal threat even to a competent pilot. And in any case a forge gunner is giving up a lot to offer that minor threat. They are sitting ducks for any other infantry. An ADS isn't a sitting duck for anything, it dominates almost everything and even has a good chance against its supposed counter. How to fix this? For that kind of power, an ADS should have SOME vulnerabilities. Obviously a reduction in ADS HP is one option, so AV can counter more effectively. An increase to large railgun range and railgun modifier power would be another possibility, so ADSes couldn't hover indefinitely without risk. At any rate, something should be done. I only have 200 kills on my tank alt and usually play as a scout, so I die very rarely to ADSes (low profile+cloak=ADS don't see me). So it doesn't really affect me personally. But it is a glaring imbalance in what is otherwise a pretty balanced game now. I'm quoting this, but I'm buggered if I'm gonna read past the title... I ads and tank... I use a missile tank, I can dupe a pilot into flying low enough by manuevering round objectives and doing the old hit reverse trick, aim up and BAM! you at least scare them off a bit, easy enough to escape to the redzone... If you aren't on your own a top turret can chase them off... Or another tank if you set yourselves far enough apart and keep each other covered. Now if you are however bitching about the ads bonus stacking which allows you to down anything in under a second... Well I'll ***** alongside you. Edit-Well bugger me I read some of it >__< I hate myself... The only counter to a dropship is not just a fecking forge gun, infact swarms>>>>> Forge... Not to mention rammers, or calling in an rdv to hit them, or you know a tank, used with a brain. You sir, are a bad tanker.
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1552	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:11:00 - [6] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? No, not that it is relevant to the issue at hand.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 297	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:12:00 - [7] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? No, not that it is relevant to the issue at hand. No because having the view of both sides would just make your oppinoin a little one sided... Oh wait, nvm it's the other way round... ****. Yes yes, I'll go now, my angry sarcasm is helping no one.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3838	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:14:00 - [8] - Quote OP you used to have a railgun that was able to hit harder, OH less, fire quicker and also have a 600m range until the lolcpm member in the thread got the railgun nerfed so he could hover in safety If it was upto him he would want the railgun removed so you would have 0 defence against an ADS https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1638265#post1638265
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 297	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:17:00 - [9] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: OP you used to have a railgun that was able to hit harder, OH less, fire quicker and also have a 600m range until the lolcpm member in the thread got the railgun nerfed so he could hover in safety If it was upto him he would want the railgun removed so you would have 0 defence against an ADS https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1638265#post1638265 Except it's missiles that fire up, not rails...
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 380	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:19:00 - [10] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? Im am. And i can tell that tanker can do nothing to ADS above them, or just to ADS whos waiting for vehicles to destroy. To the point. Incubus with small rail is crazy at AV. Harder to get infiantry. Python/Incubus with missiles will take infiantry in 1-3 shoots and are very strong vs vehicles. Small missiles shouldnt achive similiar dmg to large missiles. Thats all. Once again about countering. If tanker will get inside with IAFG then he can counter ADS to drive away. But when we include AV,other tanks then you wont jump out. Caldari Loyalist Markiplier fan. Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.

Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2057	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:19:00 - [11] - Quote stick a small rail turret on your top gun, swap to it when a red ADS flys over you and pop it out of the sky with OP small rail damage... you can tank more hits then he can so he has to GTFO or be ganked by your tank. what im seeing is that you dont know how to fit your tanks. (doesnt require two people... you just have to understand teh concept of switching seats.) Minmatar is Winmatar
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1553	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:20:00 - [12] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Edit-Well bugger me I read some of it >__< I hate myself... The only counter to a dropship is not just a fecking forge gun, infact swarms>>>>> Forge... Not to mention rammers, or calling in an rdv to hit them, or you know a tank, used with a brain. You sir, are a bad tanker. I don't claim to be great (as I said, I only have 200 kills with my tanker!) but I'm still better than the average pub tanker. Won every tank 1 on 1 in this session, and a few 2 on 1s (I'm the 1). Swarms are a joke against a dropship, you'll be lucky to get a second volley while they're still in range. Ramming is effective but it requires another dropship, and as we know, if the only 'counter' to x is another x, x doesn't really have a counter. RDV works too rarely to be relied upon.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3838	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:20:00 - [13] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: OP you used to have a railgun that was able to hit harder, OH less, fire quicker and also have a 600m range until the lolcpm member in the thread got the railgun nerfed so he could hover in safety If it was upto him he would want the railgun removed so you would have 0 defence against an ADS https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1638265#post1638265 Except it's missiles that fire up, not rails... Missiles require travel time before they even hit you, railgun is near instant
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4225	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:23:00 - [14] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: The only counter to a dropship is not just a fecking forge gun, infact swarms>>>>> Forge. Schwarms superior to Forge against ADS? Pilots crack me up. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1553	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:25:00 - [15] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: stick a small rail turret on your top gun, swap to it when a red ADS flys over you and pop it out of the sky with OP small rail damage... you can tank more hits then he can so he has to GTFO or be ganked by your tank. what im seeing is that you dont know how to fit your tanks. (doesnt require two people... you just have to understand teh concept of switching seats.) This is the best answer so far (though I never said you needed two people... the post I was replying to brought in the 'two people' concept. Even so, you have to make a lot of compromises to your fit to get that small rail in, that will only get used vs. an ADS. And even then, it will never really kill the ADS, just scare them off, so we still await the true counter to the ADS. But still, this isn't a bad defensive idea in the meantime and I'll give it a spin.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11787	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:25:00 - [16] - Quote It's not as easy as it looks. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Jebus McKing Legio DXIV 543	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:26:00 - [17] - Quote You need some scissors to protect your rock from the all mighty paper plane. OP is a kitten. @JebusMcKing
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1553	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:28:00 - [18] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: You need some scissors to protect your rock from the all mighty paper plane. Except the plane is rock (anti-infantry), paper (anti-tank), and scissors (anti-aircraft) all in one. Balance, Judge Rhadamanthas style.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2057	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:28:00 - [19] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: stick a small rail turret on your top gun, swap to it when a red ADS flys over you and pop it out of the sky with OP small rail damage... you can tank more hits then he can so he has to GTFO or be ganked by your tank. what im seeing is that you dont know how to fit your tanks. (doesnt require two people... you just have to understand teh concept of switching seats.) This is the best answer so far (though I never said you needed two people... the post I was replying to brought in the 'two people' concept. Even so, you have to make a lot of compromises to your fit to get that small rail in, that will only get used vs. an ADS. And even then, it will never really kill the ADS, just scare them off, so we still await the true counter to the ADS. But still, this isn't a bad defensive idea in the meantime and I'll give it a spin. if i can kill dropships in a methana, you can kill em with a gunnlogi Minmatar is Winmatar
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 297	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:28:00 - [20] - Quote Right... While they're still in range... I must be forgetting the massive range of the damn small turret, because last time I flew out of range of a swarm, I wasn't able to shoot at the tank or anyone near it... Swarms blow a dropship about and fire quickly... Forge at me and I'm gonna shoot you down before you get your 2nd or 3rd shot, not to mention I can just dodge a few shots so you have to reload, meaning I don't even have to leave the area. Idiots who can't think crack me up : )

Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 380	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:29:00 - [21] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: stick a small rail turret on your top gun, swap to it when a red ADS flys over you and pop it out of the sky with OP small rail damage... you can tank more hits then he can so he has to GTFO or be ganked by your tank. what im seeing is that you dont know how to fit your tanks. (doesnt require two people... you just have to understand teh concept of switching seats.) 1. Incubis with rail, have more hp than tank and hits 1,5x harder with rails (dmg+rof bonus) 2. Incubus will destroy your tank before you will even get overheat with rail. 3. Tank with small rail (only one person)is bad vs tanks. Caldari Loyalist Markiplier fan. Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2059	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:31:00 - [22] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Right... While they're still in range... I must be forgetting the massive range of the damn small turret, because last time I flew out of range of a swarm, I wasn't able to shoot at the tank or anyone near it... Swarms blow a dropship about and fire quickly... Forge at me and I'm gonna shoot you down before you get your 2nd or 3rd shot, not to mention I can just dodge a few shots so you have to reload, meaning I don't even have to leave the area. Idiots who can't think crack me up : ) i kill them in a methana.... you sir are just bad, there are ready built solutions to your problem in game, and your chosing not to use them. working as intended, not the games fault its yours. if i can do it with an LAV... you can do it in a ******* tank. Minmatar is Winmatar
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11490	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:32:00 - [23] - Quote The Problem Dedicated (and even more-so Non-Dedicated) HAV Pilots have no effective 1:1 counter to competent Assault Dropship pilots that don't involve hiding in the redline. Solutions Content Creation - Introduce an 80GJ Railgun with a higher RoF, but lower damage. This will allow for HAV Pilots to get more than one hit on competent ADS Pilots, while also giving them a better counter against JLAVs. Turret Adjustments - Increase the elevation of Missile Turrets and 80GJ Railguns, making them more effective AV weapons when facing competent pilots. Afterburner Adjustments - Increase the cooldown time of Afterburners. This way a competent ADS Pilot may still evade the area, but s/he'll need to pay attention to it's up/downtime, and won't be able to evade constantly without worry. This will bring it in line with Fuel Injectors. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2059	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:33:00 - [24] - Quote Atiim wrote: The Problem Dedicated (and even more-so Non-Dedicated) HAV Pilots have no effective 1:1 counter to competent Assault Dropship pilots that don't involve hiding in the redline. Solutions Content Creation - Introduce an 80GJ Railgun with a higher RoF, but lower damage. This will allow for HAV Pilots to get more than one hit on competent ADS Pilots, while also giving them a better counter against JLAVs. Turret Adjustments - Increase the elevation of Missile Turrets and 80GJ Railguns, making them more effective AV weapons when facing competent pilots. Afterburner Adjustments - Increase the cooldown time of Afterburners. This way a competent ADS Pilot may still evade the area, but s/he'll need to pay attention to it's up/downtime, and won't be able to evade constantly without worry. This will bring it in line with Fuel Injectors. Extended Solutions fit a small rail turret to your roof and enjoy the free points of the new flying pinatas Minmatar is Winmatar
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1554	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:36:00 - [25] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Right... While they're still in range... I must be forgetting the massive range of the damn small turret, because last time I flew out of range of a swarm, I wasn't able to shoot at the tank or anyone near it... Swarms blow a dropship about and fire quickly... Forge at me and I'm gonna shoot you down before you get your 2nd or 3rd shot, not to mention I can just dodge a few shots so you have to reload, meaning I don't even have to leave the area. Idiots who can't think crack me up : ) i kill them in a methana.... you sir are just bad, there are ready built solutions to your problem in game, and your chosing not to use them. working as intended, not the games fault its yours. if i can do it with an LAV... you can do it in a ******* tank. I think you think you're replying to the OP (me), but you're not. It's someone else saying all these Derpty Derp things
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11490	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:36:00 - [26] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Extended Solutions fit a small rail turret to your roof and enjoy the free points of the new flying pinatas Damage Mods on a Methana is better. You're harder to hit, can follow him on the map, and even have your turret ready before he get's into range. That, and it's easy to snipe at his weakspot. You can even kill Infantry while you wait too. Switching seats on your tank is just asking to have you HAV stolen by a random blueberry. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 900	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:38:00 - [27] - Quote Roofs, redlines, and unpredictable movement are your friend. As for ADS being un-killable, that's just not true. What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2204	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:39:00 - [28] - Quote While it is not a guaranteed kill, a forge ninja can "juggle" up to 3 ADS. By juggling I mean hit one twice to make him flee, reload, then use a full mag to hammer the other two into running away. Inevitably one of the three WILL screw the pooch and stick around for a second too long, or foul up by activating a shield hardener after you've breached the shields/knocked them to 5%. When dealing with more risk averse ADS pilots one lovetap is enough to make them bug out. If you keep this up continuously (keep that LAV handy to run to a depot to rearm) one of two things WILL happen. 1: The ADS pilot will decide the risk is not worth it and recall the dropship. Mission accomplished. 2: The ADS pilot will get madder and madder until he flips out and tries to fight the forge to the death. This means he has to hover to maintain stable fire on a missile-resistant sentinel who can move while charging or hits for close to 3000 damage per hit. This is not a winning strategy. I have had ADS pilots try to land on me before. TL;DR: best advice is to make friends with a explosion-obsessed forge gunner who has taken the time to max or close to max his gun. They, and the burning need swarm troops have to kill those damn ADS is THE best cover to keep friendly tanks alive.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 298	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:39:00 - [29] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Right... While they're still in range... I must be forgetting the massive range of the damn small turret, because last time I flew out of range of a swarm, I wasn't able to shoot at the tank or anyone near it... Swarms blow a dropship about and fire quickly... Forge at me and I'm gonna shoot you down before you get your 2nd or 3rd shot, not to mention I can just dodge a few shots so you have to reload, meaning I don't even have to leave the area. Idiots who can't think crack me up : ) i kill them in a methana.... you sir are just bad, there are ready built solutions to your problem in game, and your chosing not to use them. working as intended, not the games fault its yours. if i can do it with an LAV... you can do it in a ******* tank. Dude you need to learn to read, we're argueing the same point, lol... I can kill a dropship with a tank, I can kill it with a forge & I can damn well kill it with another dropship.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3970	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:45:00 - [30] - Quote oi tank scrubs how about instead of using a scout suit to bail out of your tank before it explodes you get a heavy suit with a forgegun? If a ADS is bothering you just jump out and start shoting it with a forgegun. See i just solved your problem without thinking longer then 0.1 sec about it. Certain people seriously have the IQ of some 1 who lived in the stone age. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2749	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:47:00 - [31] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? No, not that it is relevant to the issue at hand. Yes it is. Squad with me. Ill spawn you some ADS and film how indestructible you are. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 298	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:47:00 - [32] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: oi tank scrubs how about instead of using a scout suit to bail out of your tank before it explodes you get a heavy suit with a forgegun? If a ADS is bothering you just jump out and start shoting it with a forgegun. See i just solved your problem without thinking longer then 0.1 sec about it. Certain people seriously have the IQ of some 1 who lived in the stone age. Uhm dude... Stone age people mastered fire... You're giving these guys too much credit.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2059	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:48:00 - [33] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Right... While they're still in range... I must be forgetting the massive range of the damn small turret, because last time I flew out of range of a swarm, I wasn't able to shoot at the tank or anyone near it... Swarms blow a dropship about and fire quickly... Forge at me and I'm gonna shoot you down before you get your 2nd or 3rd shot, not to mention I can just dodge a few shots so you have to reload, meaning I don't even have to leave the area. Idiots who can't think crack me up : ) i kill them in a methana.... you sir are just bad, there are ready built solutions to your problem in game, and your chosing not to use them. working as intended, not the games fault its yours. if i can do it with an LAV... you can do it in a ******* tank. Dude you need to learn to read, we're argueing the same point, lol... I can kill a dropship with a tank, I can kill it with a forge & I can damn well kill it with another dropship. damn.... im tired and have been awake for a while... im usually more on the ball then this Minmatar is Winmatar
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 299	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:49:00 - [34] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? No, not that it is relevant to the issue at hand. Yes it is. Squad with me. Ill spawn you some ADS and film how indestructible you are. If we could set up a test match somehow, I'd love you to film a small rail shooting an armour rep Madruga... Once the shields are down, they can't do anything... But yeah the only tanks are shield tanks, which get boned by them.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2750	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:53:00 - [35] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? No, not that it is relevant to the issue at hand. Yes it is. Squad with me. Ill spawn you some ADS and film how indestructible you are. If we could set up a test match somehow, I'd love you to film a small rail shooting an armour rep Madruga... Once the shields are down, they can't do anything... But yeah the only tanks are shield tanks, which get boned by them. Already got that filmed. On it. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Abber Dietmart Vendetta Reactionary Force 4	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:54:00 - [36] - Quote Infantry and tank drivers need to stop whining about ADS. They cost SOOOO much that the few times you do die its expensive. What good is being able to go nearly 30/0 in a majority of matches if it costs so much to replace. And ADS can die so its balanced its just all the forge gunners and swarm launchers just suck. I had an idea for the next hotfix! Invincible ADS! It would be balanced because I said so I don't need to justify anything to you.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3839	Posted - 2014.08.18 12:59:00 - [37] - Quote lol this thread Put small rails on, yea gimp your tank fit Jump into the small turret seat, yea so some bluedot can nick it aswell as gimping your tank Jump out with a FG, yea so some bluedot can nick it Basically all answers are use a FG so the tank isnt needed at all
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2060	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:03:00 - [38] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: lol this thread Put small rails on, yea gimp your tank fit Jump into the small turret seat, yea so some bluedot can nick it aswell as gimping your tank Jump out with a FG, yea so some bluedot can nick it Basically all answers are use a FG so the tank isnt needed at all if your getting ganked by a dropship your fits already gimped LOL small rail fit > other fits, as evedenced by being able to survive a dropship :P Minmatar is Winmatar
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3970	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:04:00 - [39] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: The dark cloud wrote: oi tank scrubs how about instead of using a scout suit to bail out of your tank before it explodes you get a heavy suit with a forgegun? If a ADS is bothering you just jump out and start shoting it with a forgegun. See i just solved your problem without thinking longer then 0.1 sec about it. Certain people seriously have the IQ of some 1 who lived in the stone age. Uhm dude... Stone age people mastered fire... You're giving these guys too much credit. True but at least the people here mastered the usage of a microwave. Put stuff in, push button and wait for the PING sound. While the guys in the stone age had to search for flamable materials, hunt their food and then lit a fire to cook it. If the zombie apocalypse would happend tomorrow 95% of the people on the forum would probs just stand infront of the zombie crowd and say "oh well what im gonna do? Its all pointless". They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2060	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:06:00 - [40] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: The dark cloud wrote: oi tank scrubs how about instead of using a scout suit to bail out of your tank before it explodes you get a heavy suit with a forgegun? If a ADS is bothering you just jump out and start shoting it with a forgegun. See i just solved your problem without thinking longer then 0.1 sec about it. Certain people seriously have the IQ of some 1 who lived in the stone age. Uhm dude... Stone age people mastered fire... You're giving these guys too much credit. True but at least the people here mastered the usage of a microwave. Put stuff in, push button and wait for the PING sound. While the guys in the stone age had to search for flamable materials, hunt their food and then lit a fire to cook it. If the zombie apocalypse would happend tomorrow 95% of the people on the forum would probs just stand infront of the zombie crowd and say "oh well what im gonna do? Its all pointless". the zombie apocalypse is already here... its just that the zombies dont know it yet Minmatar is Winmatar

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3319	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:09:00 - [41] - Quote Counter 1: Equip your tank with a nitrous booster, when a dropship has you tagged drive away at speed, the dropship will give chase. Activate your booster and reverse as fast as you can, you can kill unskilled pilots with this little trick quite easily. Counter 2: Numerous sockets provide rooves or bridges that you can hide under, the ADS can not engage you without entering your LOS making them vunerable, in addition they are low to the ground making it easier to crash them. Counter 3: Drive near a new and improved turret installation, that is friendly, best case scenario it will shoot down the dropship, worst case the pilot will be forced to break of the pursuit. Counter 4: (uses 'teamwork' but is most effective) Fit a roof gunner position. If you are looking specifically to deal with dropships, fit a railgun, otherwise fit a missle turret. The gunner posistion has a maximum attack angle. Requiring the pilot being almost directly over your tank in order to avoid it's fire. Counter 5: (uses 'teamwork' but can be considerably effective) Drive/Park your tank in populus area preferably near a supply depot. Best case scenario, the sky is filled with mlt swarms which will destroy the dropship. Worst case scenario the pilot decides there are more valuable/rewarding targets than you and breaks of engagement. There are 5 different methods you can use to take or disable a dropship pilot from a tank, 4 of which require no form of communication with your team at all. 2 of which don't even require relying upon the capacity for your tea to field AV /installations. Assault Dropships are not designed to be infantry only or vehicle only vehicles. Their role is determined by the turret the pilot fields. Just like how heavy blasters are still much better at AI duties than Railguns, or how large missile turrets are pretty good at both. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11787	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:17:00 - [42] - Quote Counter 6: recall Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
TOOMANY NAMES ALREADYTAKEn Going for the gold 87	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:25:00 - [43] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Counter 6: recall Not enough time, it takes 15 seconds to recall now. Shotgunner for life. EDIT: Scratch that, I love my lasers.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3971	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:26:00 - [44] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Counter 6: recall That takes 15 secs now. So no more recall quickly while the tank is beeing shot which is a good thing. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1555	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:28:00 - [45] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? No, not that it is relevant to the issue at hand. Yes it is. Squad with me. Ill spawn you some ADS and film how indestructible you are. Ill be on tonight. 2000 EVE time. This is the only answer you have, 'do you fly ADS?'. When you tire of your ad hominems you can tell me what the counter to an ADS is. Another dropship does not count, nor does a forgegun (since you can only get off enough shots to kill an ADS if the pilot chooses to let you).
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 465	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:29:00 - [46] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: shaman oga wrote: Step 1. Mount little turrets on your HAV Step 2. Acquire a friendly forge (or two, the second is optional) Step 3. Harvest tears from DS pilots. Multiple tank crew should not be required to counter one ADS pilot. You don't actually need multiple tank crew just one the issue is you still have to have 2 guns since the first gun always auto assigns to the front gun. You need the Top gun to be a small rail and then you should be golden if the Turret operator can aim. Inversely you can just have one front gun and have the gunner ride around with a blaster or rail turret killing enemies with you while jumping out with an assault forge to take out the DS pilots when they come calling. This is hard for tankers to grasp because you guys always had it the easiest... a lot of us can't counter EVERYTHING with ONE FIT. You don't here me crying that my Caldari Assault with a rifle can't counter your tank. In other words, one guy the turret or forger can counter 1 ADS pilot. I do it all the time... hell I've forced dropships to recall or die in a LAV small rail by myself before, and I shoot down ADS incubus and pythons before they can rise out of my range with my ishokune assault forge. This is why people make the joke that squads are OP, because you can't counter everything with one thing but you can counter everything with a few things. This is why I say vehicle vs. AV is the best i've seen it so far, because it takes a good AV player to take out a Good pilot. It's not easy to hit dropships that are flailing about in the sky with a forge gun and swarms they can usually escape from. Only time I don't see the dropships escaping from swarms is when they are joined by other av which to me is working as intended because multiples of 1 thing that is good against you should destroy you.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2750	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:59:00 - [47] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: This is the only answer you have, 'do you fly ADS?'. When you tire of your ad hominems.... Two things. 1) That is not an answer it is a question. 2) There is no ad hominem in my post. There would only be one if i had said "what do you know, do you fly?" Which I didn't. I asked a simple question, so I might then follow up with my next post correctly. So will you join me and show me how indestructible they are? I'll film it, then release it as proof. Like I said. 2000 EVE tonight. Domination. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 208	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:05:00 - [48] - Quote To all the people who say fit a one roof turret I can tell you that you don't drive tanks. why? By default when you fit one turret it gives you the front. You have to fit 2 turrets to actually get the roof one. Even if you fit a single turret in the correct slot it still gives you the front by default. Just wantend to point that out... As for the Judge great that you reply to threads. I hope you will visit features and ideas and give your feedback there aswell. Even if it's non dropship related.. We have a nice thread about assault suits going on that could use your feedback.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2445	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:09:00 - [49] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: This is the only answer you have, 'do you fly ADS?'. When you tire of your ad hominems.... Two things. 1) That is not an answer it is a question. 2) There is no ad hominem in my post. There would only be one if i had said "what do you know, do you fly?" Which I didn't. I asked a simple question, so I might then follow up with my next post correctly. So will you join me and show me how indestructible they are? I'll film it, then release it as proof. Like I said. 2000 EVE tonight. Domination. OOOOH CAN I BE THERE?! I FLY STUFF TOO!! I am the skybound warrior, you will know to run when you hear the music from above that make panties disappear.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4708	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:15:00 - [50] - Quote Missile turrets aim higher than rails, right? Alpha his ass out of the sky.

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2750	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:16:00 - [51] - Quote afraid not. that would be two ADS. His claim is that : Forge Guns are only slightly effective Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The only thing that is even slightly effective against an ADS is a forge gun NOTHING except an ADS is a counter Ryme Intrinseca wrote: There is nothing (apart from another dropship) that is a true counter to an ADS, i.e. a mortal threat even to a competent pilot. And in any case a forge gunner is giving up a lot to offer that minor threat. An ADS is not a sitting duck for anything Ryme Intrinseca wrote: An ADS isn't a sitting duck for anything. ADS can hover without risk Ryme Intrinseca wrote: ADSes couldn't hover indefinitely without risk. Bold claims. If true he wont lose a single dropship. and go at least 20-0. So I want him to put up, and prove these bold claims. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Cody Sietz Evzones 3863	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:16:00 - [52] - Quote When I do use a tank, I'll usually have a assault FG on hand. They never see it coming. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
rpastry The Rainbow Effect 188	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:19:00 - [53] - Quote look its been said time and time again,. ADS pilots just want to hover and kill ****. Everything to counter them has been nerfed - swarms (range) forges (range) large turrets (range and elevation) Its only possible to kill idiot ADS pilots. 2 proto damage modded swarm forge rounds are all you get. By the time the 2nd hits they're already flying away. by the 3rd they're out of range. They can rinse and repeat this all day long. Meanwhile as AV infantry you're in a gimped fit with 15 other enemy infantry all over you. This swapping tank seats/running an AV suit in a tank is unworkable nonsense for one reason - Blueberries. ADS should be removed from the game like they were supposed to be for 1.9. Then DS pilots have to use teams like they always insist AV should do. But no. Now Sir Rhadamanthus the Brave is a CP/M and gets a louder voice to protect his play style. Hover and spam FTW. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2750	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:24:00 - [54] - Quote rpastry wrote: look its been said time and time again,. ADS pilots just want to hover and kill **** It does not matter how many time something is said. All that matters is if it is true or not. Exaggerated claims, Ad hominums and knee jerk reactions do not fix anything. If you have a true and valid point then it's demonstration will be easy. Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16198	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:30:00 - [55] - Quote Step 1 Find a good hill Step 2 Park a Triple Damage Railgun Tank on the said hill Step 3 Fire. CPM 0 Secretary, CPM 1 Elect Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Advanced Minmatar Logistics =// Unlocked
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3971	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:35:00 - [56] - Quote rpastry wrote: look its been said time and time again,. ADS pilots just want to hover and kill ****. Everything to counter them has been nerfed - swarms (range) forges (range) large turrets (range and elevation) Its only possible to kill idiot ADS pilots. 2 proto damage modded swarm forge rounds are all you get. By the time the 2nd hits they're already flying away. by the 3rd they're out of range. They can rinse and repeat this all day long. Meanwhile as AV infantry you're in a gimped fit with 15 other enemy infantry all over you. This swapping tank seats/running an AV suit in a tank is unworkable nonsense for one reason - Blueberries. ADS should be removed from the game like they were supposed to be for 1.9. Then DS pilots have to use teams like they always insist AV should do. But no. Now Sir Rhadamanthus the Brave is a CP/M and gets a louder voice to protect his play style. Hover and spam FTW. I fly myself quite alot of times a ADS and its not that easy. Swarms and forgeguns can effectively deny airspace for dropships and if the pilot is too cocky he gets shot down. There is minimal room for mistakes. If the pilot makes a wrong choice or understimates the AV firepower he gets shot down fast. Forgeguns have a range of 300m and you surely can destroy any ADS in time. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2750	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:54:00 - [57] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: I fly myself quite alot of times a ADS and its not that easy. Swarms and forgeguns can effectively deny airspace for dropships and if the pilot is too cocky he gets shot down. There is minimal room for mistakes. If the pilot makes a wrong choice or understimates the AV firepower he gets shot down fast. Forgeguns have a range of 300m and you surely can destroy any ADS in time. Do you think we should buff Swarms more in terms of damage? or would changes to missile speed and turn radius make more sense to you? Email Me [email protected] Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
rpastry The Rainbow Effect 188	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:55:00 - [58] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: rpastry wrote: look its been said times and time again,. ADS pilots just want to hover and kill **** It does not matter how many times something is said. Repeated claims do not become fact after so many loops. All that matters is if it is true or not. Exaggerated claims, Ad hominums and knee jerk reactions do not fix anything. If you have a true and valid point then it's demonstration will be easy. Define your terms. At what point does a game asset become OP? At what point is it UP? Where are those lines so I can Measure against them. Then demonstrate that both sets of measures actually exist and then we can tune within the actual parameters. Its demonstrated every battle when an ADS turns up. 10 ADS flies in. 20 ADS hovers and pelts stuff with its XT-1. 30 ADS takes fire. 40 ADS flies away. 50 ADS recharges at range, completely invulnerable to all ground forces. 60 GOTO 10 Infantry side; Infantry is fighting infantry Infantry gets one-shotted by an ADS while fighting enemy infantry. Infantry spawns with AV. Infantry tries to shoot ADS while also avoiding enemy infantry. Infantry observes ADS behaviour described above. The only difference is the amount of time an ADS gets to hover and pelt stuff before its forced off. I can spend an entire game forcing off an ADS, but the odds are totally stacked in its favour, and TBH I'd rather be fighting infantry. To measure it? go play with swarms vs. somebody you consider a reasonably skilled pilot. Without them knowing. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
rpastry The Rainbow Effect 188	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:57:00 - [59] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The dark cloud wrote: I fly myself quite alot of times a ADS and its not that easy. Swarms and forgeguns can effectively deny airspace for dropships and if the pilot is too cocky he gets shot down. There is minimal room for mistakes. If the pilot makes a wrong choice or understimates the AV firepower he gets shot down fast. Forgeguns have a range of 300m and you surely can destroy any ADS in time. Do you think we should buff Swarms more in terms of damage? or would changes to missile speed and turn radius make more sense to you? Do you think they are close to right or still in need of a balance pass? RANGE. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 344	Posted - 2014.08.18 15:00:00 - [60] - Quote WHOA!!! now wait a second we can at least scare them off? AV should be able to DESTROY vehicles not scare them off its not fair for them to fly off as soon as danger apears evavde sl by miles with afterburners it shouldn't take a squad to scare 1 guy away it should take a squad to destroy them. Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3841	Posted - 2014.08.18 15:07:00 - [61] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Step 1 Find a good hill Step 2 Park a Triple Damage Railgun Tank on the said hill Step 3 Fire. Wrong, wrong and wrong Thanks to a thread like this https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=130849 The rails got range nerfed, damage nerfed, refire time nerfed, elevation nerfed, OH increased and generally the hard counter to ADS got nerfed FG are capable but require 1 very good fg or 2 to make sure Any complaints about the ADS can be directed at number 1 bad pilot judge who somehow still gets shot down even tho hes trying his hardest to buff the playstyle
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 750	Posted - 2014.08.18 15:16:00 - [62] - Quote have you tried the old reverse trick? make the ads follow you in a straght line for a few seconds then his your nitro and damage mod and slam into reverse and the dropship more than likly keep going forward where you get a split secod chance to alpha him into the dirt. it works often try it
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 344	Posted - 2014.08.18 15:17:00 - [63] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The dark cloud wrote: I fly myself quite alot of times a ADS and its not that easy. Swarms and forgeguns can effectively deny airspace for dropships and if the pilot is too cocky he gets shot down. There is minimal room for mistakes. If the pilot makes a wrong choice or understimates the AV firepower he gets shot down fast. Forgeguns have a range of 300m and you surely can destroy any ADS in time. Do you think we should buff Swarms more in terms of damage? or would changes to missile speed and turn radius make more sense to you? Do you think they are close to right or still in need of a balance pass? Speed and radius and possibly bonus please damage is fine its just that they fly up and out of av's range its unfair for them to put on afterburners and go god mode at the top of the map. Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16198	Posted - 2014.08.18 15:18:00 - [64] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: have you tried the old reverse trick? make the ads follow you in a straght line for a few seconds then his your nitro and damage mod and slam into reverse and the dropship more than likly keep going forward where you get a split secod chance to alpha him into the dirt. it works often try it I saw this happen once it wasn't pretty and I couldn't tell if it was on purpose though. CPM 0 Secretary, CPM 1 Elect Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Advanced Minmatar Logistics =// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16199	Posted - 2014.08.18 15:19:00 - [65] - Quote JARREL THOMAS wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The dark cloud wrote: I fly myself quite alot of times a ADS and its not that easy. Swarms and forgeguns can effectively deny airspace for dropships and if the pilot is too cocky he gets shot down. There is minimal room for mistakes. If the pilot makes a wrong choice or understimates the AV firepower he gets shot down fast. Forgeguns have a range of 300m and you surely can destroy any ADS in time. Do you think we should buff Swarms more in terms of damage? or would changes to missile speed and turn radius make more sense to you? Do you think they are close to right or still in need of a balance pass? Speed and radius and possibly bonus please damage is fine its just that they fly up and out of av's range its unfair for them to put on afterburners and go god mode at the top of the map. I am going have to step in and dash some hopes away but what Judge describes may likely not be feasible via hotfix. Swarms originally took forever to fix. While its worth an exploration none the less we cannot be certain to how possible the reality may be. CPM 0 Secretary, CPM 1 Elect Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Advanced Minmatar Logistics =// Unlocked
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2180	Posted - 2014.08.18 15:21:00 - [66] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? I do an I have seen both sides of the coin. Taking out armor tanks (and to a lesser degree shield tanks) is rather easy with my Python. If they spot me at range, I just fly up and up and then descend down upon them to bring them death. Now, from the tanker's point of view, your only option to deal with an ADS is to get them first before they see you. An infantry equivalent would be once a scout sees you, you no longer have a chance at killing them while they slowly whittle down your EHP at 100 dps. One single player must not hold such a huge advantage over any one single player. I see only several solutions without nerfing dropship EHP: - increase swarm velocity by a considerable amount - increase large missile launchers' max angle of elevation to 70-80 degrees (or something like that) - increase large railgun range up to about 400 or 450 meters - (alternatively for the turrets, add in skills that grant 5 to 10 degrees of max angle of elevation for large missiles and +25 meters of max range to large railguns.... blasters can then get a heat reduction skill or increased dispersion decay or something) Reasoning: - faster swarms means that ADS pilots need to be much more aware and cautious when they approach ground targets. Having used swarms as well, it's too easy for an ADS to escape while being hit by no more than one swarm volley. - increased max angle of elevation would supplement the large missile launcher's role as being the main AV turret. Engaging a vehicle whose role is AV with another vehicle should be a challenge. A large missile launcher should be a serious threat to any ADS, and decreasing the dead-zone above a HAV in my opinion will do that - increasing max railgun range would allow railguns a better chance at destroying dropships. Currently, a rail tank has to get in close to a dropship (about 250 meters) to have a chance at applying several shots, but most ADS pilots will burn straight up right away (and at such close proximity they quickly get beyond the turret's max angle of elevation). They then descend upon the rail tank and it stands no chance at surviving against the ADS. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
DontChimpOut Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 83	Posted - 2014.08.18 15:31:00 - [67] - Quote Maybe if a certain someone didn't single-handedly get tanks nerfed to make flying a little easier for his Fokker... We can add new LP items, but we need to see FW participation numbers go up to make it worth our time. - CCP Dev
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2206	Posted - 2014.08.18 15:37:00 - [68] - Quote rpastry wrote: Its demonstrated every battle when an ADS turns up. 10 ADS flies in. 20 ADS hovers and pelts stuff with its XT-1. 30 ADS takes fire. 40 ADS flies away. 50 ADS recharges at range, completely invulnerable to all ground forces. 60 GOTO 10 Infantry side; Infantry is fighting infantry Infantry gets one-shotted by an ADS while fighting enemy infantry. Infantry spawns with AV. Infantry tries to shoot ADS while also avoiding enemy infantry. Infantry observes ADS behaviour described above. Infantry side looks more like this for me: Breakin Stuff is hunting for tanks and dropships in a suicide sled (LAV) Breakin Stuff spots ADS menacing allies. Breakin Stuff Moves to contact: 150M between ADS and friendly redline. Breakin Stuff shoots ADS twice in rapid succession before the ADS pilot realizes what has happened and begins maneuvering wildly to escape. Breakin Stuff fires a third snap-shot to attempt the kill. 1/3 ADS are successfully led, crash and explode. +75 WP. Breakin Stuff reloads Forge gun and returns to vehicular homicide patrol pattern. Breakin Stuff Inevitably screws up and gets knifed, because he's really terrible at everything but killing vehicles. Breakin Stuff respawns as AV This is a more accurate picture of what it looks like from the PoV of a primary AV gunner. ADS are not invulnerable. Just ask Judge. I'm pretty sure he's seen me shoot the things down. Or gotten shot down by me at least once.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 3060	Posted - 2014.08.18 16:54:00 - [69] - Quote TRIPLE FUEL INJECTOR MACH 7 TANK! FLY, MY DARLING!
danie sous DUST BRASIL S.A Dark Taboo 26	Posted - 2014.08.18 16:59:00 - [70] - Quote The cost of an ADS. Most expensive item right?

Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 455	Posted - 2014.08.18 17:04:00 - [71] - Quote Practice with the assault forge gun and ADS are no longer a threat.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3974	Posted - 2014.08.18 18:06:00 - [72] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: JARREL THOMAS wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The dark cloud wrote: I fly myself quite alot of times a ADS and its not that easy. Swarms and forgeguns can effectively deny airspace for dropships and if the pilot is too cocky he gets shot down. There is minimal room for mistakes. If the pilot makes a wrong choice or understimates the AV firepower he gets shot down fast. Forgeguns have a range of 300m and you surely can destroy any ADS in time. Do you think we should buff Swarms more in terms of damage? or would changes to missile speed and turn radius make more sense to you? Do you think they are close to right or still in need of a balance pass? Speed and radius and possibly bonus please damage is fine its just that they fly up and out of av's range its unfair for them to put on afterburners and go god mode at the top of the map. I am going have to step in and dash some hopes away but what Judge describes may likely not be feasible via hotfix. Swarms originally took forever to fix. While its worth an exploration none the less we cannot be certain to how possible the reality may be. And thats why i didnt run for the CPM simply of the harsh limitations of what you can do with hotfixes cause there will be no more client side updates. But what can be done is to give assault swarm launchers 50% longer lock on range (that would actually make them usefull) and we end up with a max range of about 262m. its still less range then railguns and most certainly less range then forgeguns but its enough to actually hit dropships. They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of: "GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 306	Posted - 2014.08.18 18:37:00 - [73] - Quote Large missile turrets are fine, 1 burst with no damage mod drops any ads if you land enough shots... if you don't land enough they have to ** right off... Whatever you do, for this test, get a decent tanker for it... I hate to blow my own horn but if not me in the tank then Delboy, he's the only other person I've seen who can actually use them... These morons wont be happy until everything is broken and the game is just an FPS. Why the is everyone bitching about an afterburning dropship getting away! The ship is not killing anything while it flys to the redzone... Can I complain about infantry simply on the basis that it 'could' fit extra shields or extra damage or extra speed? You want to down something that's flying away, ignoring anything that doesn't have a *** afterburner, which will be unusable... Now fine if you want to balance ads based on afterburners, we better get them fitted as standard on everything. Swarms are broken, they've never worked right, they were nerfed into oblivion for a reason, that reason being that the devs can't fecking program them not to be buggy as hell... 3 swarm shots will down most dropships, you don't even have to reload, you can't miss and they're mostly invisible and can be fired away from. Now if a dropship comes overhead and your av isn't there yet, have you considered hiding? they can't fire around objects, that's what the swarms do, use your *** brain! I don't come running straight at you with a militia AR and then complain I got shot, I duck behind cover, like someone who isn't ******.
Alabaster Shinho Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 15	Posted - 2014.08.18 18:56:00 - [74] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: shaman oga wrote: Step 1. Mount little turrets on your HAV Step 2. Acquire a friendly forge (or two, the second is optional) Step 3. Harvest tears from DS pilots. Multiple tank crew should not be required to counter one ADS pilot. Multiple tank crew SHOULD be required. One person in a tank should not be able to take out it's counter by itself, otherwise it's not a counter. In fact, even WITH small turrets, a tank should not be able to take out a dropship that's above it. It needs to have other players supporting it to do so. This is not a game to be solo'd.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2208	Posted - 2014.08.18 19:16:00 - [75] - Quote Did a forge gun party with a GM today. Dropships falling from the sky like twenty-ton hailstones. like ten of them. It was glorious. Never mind the tanks I got to pop at point-blank.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3845	Posted - 2014.08.18 19:17:00 - [76] - Quote Alabaster Shinho wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: shaman oga wrote: Step 1. Mount little turrets on your HAV Step 2. Acquire a friendly forge (or two, the second is optional) Step 3. Harvest tears from DS pilots. Multiple tank crew should not be required to counter one ADS pilot. Multiple tank crew SHOULD be required. One person in a tank should not be able to take out it's counter by itself, otherwise it's not a counter. In fact, even WITH small turrets, a tank should not be able to take out a dropship that's above it. It needs to have other players supporting it to do so. This is not a game to be solo'd. But if i say this Multiple Anti vehicle crew SHOULD be required. One person with an AV weapon should not be able to take out it's counter by itself, otherwise it's not a counter. In fact, even WITH AV nades a AV crew should not be able to take out a tank that's infront ofit it. It needs to have other players supporting it to do so. This is not a game to be solo'd All i did was replace tank crew with AV crew and wait to see how many will say that it shouldnt take a crew to take out one pilot in a tank
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1051	Posted - 2014.08.18 19:46:00 - [77] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: shaman oga wrote: Step 1. Mount little turrets on your HAV Step 2. Acquire a friendly forge (or two, the second is optional) Step 3. Harvest tears from DS pilots. Multiple tank crew should not be required to counter one ADS pilot. Kind of funny to hear that coming from tankers. I will agree that one player should not require several players to counter merely as a result of their fit, however, requiring a certain type of fit to deal with another is fair. Just like tanks are immune to regular infantry. I don't think it is really comparable though, I see lots of dropships taking down by tanks. They seem pretty equal to me, especially if you add infantry AV to the mix. I've never seen a tank taken down by a combat rifle, although I finished some off with a mass driver. Because, that's why.
Thurak1 Psygod9 933	Posted - 2014.08.18 20:02:00 - [78] - Quote I have taken multiple dropships out with my rail tank simply by finding a mound to roll my tank up on to give me a nice angle and be able to shoot up at the dropships. Makes them scurry right quick when they start getting hit by my railgun. I should put a damage mod on it so they pop instead of run.
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1563	Posted - 2014.08.18 20:03:00 - [79] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: afraid not. that would be two ADS. His claim is that : Forge Guns are only slightly effective Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The only thing that is even slightly effective against an ADS is a forge gun NOTHING except an ADS is a counter Ryme Intrinseca wrote: There is nothing (apart from another dropship) that is a true counter to an ADS, i.e. a mortal threat even to a competent pilot. An ADS is not a sitting duck for anything Ryme Intrinseca wrote: An ADS isn't a sitting duck for anything. ADS can hover without risk Ryme Intrinseca wrote: An increase to large railgun range and railgun modifier power would be another possibility, so ADSes couldn't hover indefinitely without risk Bold claims. If true he wont lose a single dropship. and go at least 20-0. So I want him to put up, and prove these bold claims. But if they are true, then we need to act. So OP, Prove your claims. How many times do i have to tell you, i have never flown a dropship. The fact that you persist with this bizarre line of argument instead of answering simple questions, like 'what genuine counter is there to an ADS?' suggests that you KNOW full well that ADSes are grossly OP but want to distract from that with irrelevancies.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2213	Posted - 2014.08.18 20:10:00 - [80] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: How many times do i have to tell you, i have never flown a dropship. The fact that you persist with this bizarre line of argument instead of answering simple questions, like 'what genuine counter is there to an ADS?' suggests that you KNOW full well that ADSes are grossly OP but want to distract from that with irrelevancies. ADS are not grossly OP. Most people refuse to spec into their counters. It's like tanks in Chromosome. You had like five people in closed beta who dedicated themselves wholly to the cause of HAV extermination. We were the ones who hunted marauders solo and won a lot of the time.

ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 65	Posted - 2014.08.18 20:18:00 - [81] - Quote I think a better idea would be to nerf installations back some. People dont even bother to kill them anymore, because theyre a waste of ammo.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2213	Posted - 2014.08.18 20:23:00 - [82] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: I think a better idea would be to nerf installations back some. People dont even bother to kill them anymore, because theyre a waste of ammo. Speak for yourself. If it's red, it's dead.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1051	Posted - 2014.08.18 20:26:00 - [83] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: The only counter to a dropship is not just a fecking forge gun, infact swarms>>>>> Forge. Schwarms superior to Forge against ADS? Pilots crack me up. Good pilots are hard to kill with either, but hitting a fast or erratic moving ADS is kind of hard, getting all your shots in the time period is harder. I am better with a forge against tanks or slow dropships but I switch to swarms if dropships are my main target. Because, that's why.
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1563	Posted - 2014.08.18 20:29:00 - [84] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: How many times do i have to tell you, i have never flown a dropship. The fact that you persist with this bizarre line of argument instead of answering simple questions, like 'what genuine counter is there to an ADS?' suggests that you KNOW full well that ADSes are grossly OP but want to distract from that with irrelevancies. ADS are not grossly OP. Most people refuse to spec into their counters. It's like tanks in Chromosome. You had like five people in closed beta who dedicated themselves wholly to the cause of HAV extermination. We were the ones who hunted marauders solo and won a lot of the time. I use 2 damage mod, prof 5 IAFG. It is not a true counter, the pilot only has to press the UP button and they will escape. Youll only get a kill if the pilot is greedy or incompetent. So if thats not the counter, what is?
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 738	Posted - 2014.08.18 20:30:00 - [85] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: How many times do i have to tell you, i have never flown a dropship. The fact that you persist with this bizarre line of argument instead of answering simple questions, like 'what genuine counter is there to an ADS?' suggests that you KNOW full well that ADSes are grossly OP but want to distract from that with irrelevancies. ADS are not grossly OP. Most people refuse to spec into their counters. It's like tanks in Chromosome. You had like five people in closed beta who dedicated themselves wholly to the cause of HAV extermination. We were the ones who hunted marauders solo and won a lot of the time. What counters? Lolswarms are being OUTPACED. Tanks can't do **** outside of surprise attacks. The only counter is an AFG Heavy on a rooftop with Hives that does nothing but lockdown ships all game. And if those Hives are destroyed, it's only a matter time before you beat them due to attrition. The true problem here is that ships don't rely on anything to fly, which means they lose nothing by pressing their guarantee retreat button and leaving for 10 seconds to recover. The pilot always has the advantage because the pilot will always win the grind war.
Hakyou Brutor Pure Evil. 1079	Posted - 2014.08.18 20:32:00 - [86] - Quote Don't run solo, coordinate with AV/Other tanks.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1051	Posted - 2014.08.18 20:32:00 - [87] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: While it is not a guaranteed kill, a forge ninja can "juggle" up to 3 ADS. By juggling I mean hit one twice to make him flee, reload, then use a full mag to hammer the other two into running away. Inevitably one of the three WILL screw the pooch and stick around for a second too long, or foul up by activating a shield hardener after you've breached the shields/knocked them to 5%. When dealing with more risk averse ADS pilots one lovetap is enough to make them bug out. If you keep this up continuously (keep that LAV handy to run to a depot to rearm) one of two things WILL happen. 1: The ADS pilot will decide the risk is not worth it and recall the dropship. Mission accomplished. 2: The ADS pilot will get madder and madder until he flips out and tries to fight the forge to the death. This means he has to hover to maintain stable fire on a missile-resistant sentinel who can move while charging or hits for close to 3000 damage per hit. This is not a winning strategy. I have had ADS pilots try to land on me before. TL;DR: best advice is to make friends with a explosion-obsessed forge gunner who has taken the time to max or close to max his gun. They, and the burning need swarm troops have to kill those damn ADS is THE best cover to keep friendly tanks alive. 4. Have their high jumping cloaked scout buddies come and shoot you in the face. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1051	Posted - 2014.08.18 20:36:00 - [88] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: lol this thread Put small rails on, yea gimp your tank fit Jump into the small turret seat, yea so some bluedot can nick it aswell as gimping your tank Jump out with a FG, yea so some bluedot can nick it Basically all answers are use a FG so the tank isnt needed at all Ah, so infantry having to switch to AV gear, or better switch to a tank, in order to fight a tank is a good thing but a tanker having to change something to fight an ADS is unfair? Because, that's why.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 65	Posted - 2014.08.18 20:53:00 - [89] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: afraid not. that would be two ADS. His claim is that : Forge Guns are only slightly effective Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The only thing that is even slightly effective against an ADS is a forge gun NOTHING except an ADS is a counter Ryme Intrinseca wrote: There is nothing (apart from another dropship) that is a true counter to an ADS, i.e. a mortal threat even to a competent pilot. An ADS is not a sitting duck for anything Ryme Intrinseca wrote: An ADS isn't a sitting duck for anything. ADS can hover without risk Ryme Intrinseca wrote: An increase to large railgun range and railgun modifier power would be another possibility, so ADSes couldn't hover indefinitely without risk Bold claims. If true he wont lose a single dropship. and go at least 20-0. So I want him to put up, and prove these bold claims. But if they are true, then we need to act. So OP, Prove your claims. Noones nerfing dropships til the cost is reduced i have to survive 3 matches as is to make any profit.Why dropship nerf threads now? Nothings been buffed except their counters.Av hardly has anything to fight as is, installations do all the work now.
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 712	Posted - 2014.08.18 20:58:00 - [90] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? No, not that it is relevant to the issue at hand. Typical. OP complains without even understanding the factors at play. The ignorance is strong with this one, move along Living proof that the Amarr can't do anything without the Caldari

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12955	Posted - 2014.08.18 21:04:00 - [91] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? He isn't wrong about HAV being unable to counter them or the fact that you can combine AV and AI power in the same main gun. You literally cannot counter and ADS in the field unless you happen to be rather lucky since a good pilot knows to be constantly on the move and looking for an opportunity. Not to mention there are very few places on maps a competent pilot will not be able to go/ get a shot off on you. Don't get me wrong I am not complaining. Personally I think ADS are fine as they are. Give them more EHP they become Sky Tanks. Take away EHP and they become useless. However as I keep telling ADS pilots they cannot have Tank, Gank, and Mobility/ Flight in one. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3847	Posted - 2014.08.18 21:10:00 - [92] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: lol this thread Put small rails on, yea gimp your tank fit Jump into the small turret seat, yea so some bluedot can nick it aswell as gimping your tank Jump out with a FG, yea so some bluedot can nick it Basically all answers are use a FG so the tank isnt needed at all Ah, so infantry having to switch to AV gear, or better switch to a tank, in order to fight a tank is a good thing but a tanker having to change something to fight an ADS is unfair? To put rails on you cimp your fit since you generally dont have enough PG/CPU since we are not allowed adv/proto hulls If you jump out with a FG bluedot nicks it and you are not in control of your tank which may have a module ready to activate Basically they are poor options, those options prove that you do not need a tank, just go around with a LAV instead
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 855	Posted - 2014.08.18 21:18:00 - [93] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: shaman oga wrote: Step 1. Mount little turrets on your HAV Step 2. Acquire a friendly forge (or two, the second is optional) Step 3. Harvest tears from DS pilots. Multiple tank crew should not be required to counter one ADS pilot. Lol. Tankers have screamed FOREVER that it should take more than one person to kill them. Yet if they are required to use another player to kill an ADS they kick and scream. Tankers are such unskilled pussies. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12955	Posted - 2014.08.18 21:22:00 - [94] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: lol this thread Put small rails on, yea gimp your tank fit Jump into the small turret seat, yea so some bluedot can nick it aswell as gimping your tank Jump out with a FG, yea so some bluedot can nick it Basically all answers are use a FG so the tank isnt needed at all Ah, so infantry having to switch to AV gear, or better switch to a tank, in order to fight a tank is a good thing but a tanker having to change something to fight an ADS is unfair? To put rails on you cimp your fit since you generally dont have enough PG/CPU since we are not allowed adv/proto hulls If you jump out with a FG bluedot nicks it and you are not in control of your tank which may have a module ready to activate Basically they are poor options, those options prove that you do not need a tank, just go around with a LAV instead Actually its only Armour HAV that struggle fitting small turrets. All of my Shield HAV have a full 3x turret line up and are capable of going toe to toe with any other tank as well as carrying two passengers while mounting solid ADV modules. However armour HAV cannot do the same as no fitting modules exist in high slots and their oddly low PG/ High PG cost modules makes fitting 3x turrets and even basic modules impossible. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
DontChimpOut Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 84	Posted - 2014.08.18 22:15:00 - [95] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: lol this thread Put small rails on, yea gimp your tank fit Jump into the small turret seat, yea so some bluedot can nick it aswell as gimping your tank Jump out with a FG, yea so some bluedot can nick it Basically all answers are use a FG so the tank isnt needed at all Ah, so infantry having to switch to AV gear, or better switch to a tank, in order to fight a tank is a good thing but a tanker having to change something to fight an ADS is unfair? Some roll in packs, you know. But you wouldn't know, because you think anybody that specializes in using a vehicle is a stupid, bad player. We can add new LP items, but we need to see FW participation numbers go up to make it worth our time. - CCP Dev
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2217	Posted - 2014.08.18 22:26:00 - [96] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: 4. Have their high jumping cloaked scout buddies come and shoot you in the face. Cost of doing business. Nothing is assured.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3323	Posted - 2014.08.18 23:50:00 - [97] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? No, not that it is relevant to the issue at hand. Yes it is. Squad with me. Ill spawn you some ADS and film how indestructible you are. Ill be on tonight. 2000 EVE time. This is the only answer you have, 'do you fly ADS?'. When you tire of your ad hominems you can tell me what the counter to an ADS is. Another dropship does not count, nor does a forgegun (since you can only get off enough shots to kill an ADS if the pilot chooses to let you). If you want to know a man's weakness, walk a mile in his shoes. Until you've flown and ADS and successfully filleted a tank (with no resistance from said tank) can you say with convinction that an ADS is completely uncounterable by tanks. The fact is, it's not so cut and dry. If your a solo tanker, taking out an aerial vehicle is understandably difficult, Helicopter > Tank For one simple reason, it can fly! And that mea s it can FLY in your blindspot. Now as Takihiro ans Spkr (Don'tChimpout) have tried countering, Tanks should be capable of countering ADS's because infantry can counter Tanks. UNTIL you realise one little thing, if we were to mirror Infantry AV with tanks vs dropships, you would need to fit a main turret that can ONLY engage flying targets, being completely useless against other tanks. I personally would have no proble with this so long aa they are forced to operate outsode their redlines, but what will the tankers say? NO, we have to have our main turret counter EVERYTHING! They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3323	Posted - 2014.08.18 23:55:00 - [98] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: lol this thread Put small rails on, yea gimp your tank fit Jump into the small turret seat, yea so some bluedot can nick it aswell as gimping your tank Jump out with a FG, yea so some bluedot can nick it Basically all answers are use a FG so the tank isnt needed at all Ah, so infantry having to switch to AV gear, or better switch to a tank, in order to fight a tank is a good thing but a tanker having to change something to fight an ADS is unfair? To put rails on you cimp your fit since you generally dont have enough PG/CPU since we are not allowed adv/proto hulls If you jump out with a FG bluedot nicks it and you are not in control of your tank which may have a module ready to activate Basically they are poor options, those options prove that you do not need a tank, just go around with a LAV instead No it simply proves you need something other than one solution. Infantry doesn't have 1 solution to all it's problems. Even a commando needs protection from scouts, sentinels, explosives, Snipers, Mass Drivers, Plasma Cannons and so forth. Your tank, is not the be all and end all of combat They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
saxonmish Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 199	Posted - 2014.08.19 00:39:00 - [99] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Played on my tank alt for a couple of hours. Think I'm beginning to understand how it is that tankers are frustrated even though they seem to be able to dominate the battlefield. AV and enemy tanks put up a decent fight but I managed to keep my tank in one piece (killed six tanks in one battle). I only died twice, both times to the same ADS pilot (in different battles). I couldn't really see how I could do anything differently - once they're above you (which is instantly) you're toast, hardeners just extend the agony of being pecked to death The only 'counters' I came up with were: 1) Stay near the redline so you have a half chance of escaping. 2) Use cheaper tank (lower tier turret or militia hull) so when an ADS inevitably kills you it doesn't cost so much. Obviously neither of those things are actually counters, they're basically just ways of accepting defeat. If ADSes were a specific anti-tank weapon this wouldn't be so bad, but they terrorize infantry just as much. The only thing that is even slightly effective against an ADS is a forge gun, and even then the pilot can choose to escape if they wish. There is nothing (apart from another dropship) that is a true counter to an ADS, i.e. a mortal threat even to a competent pilot. And in any case a forge gunner is giving up a lot to offer that minor threat. They are sitting ducks for any other infantry. An ADS isn't a sitting duck for anything, it dominates almost everything and even has a good chance against its supposed counter. How to fix this? For that kind of power, an ADS should have SOME vulnerabilities. Obviously a reduction in ADS HP is one option, so AV can counter more effectively. An increase to large railgun range and railgun modifier power would be another possibility, so ADSes couldn't hover indefinitely without risk. At any rate, something should be done. I only have 200 kills on my tank alt and usually play as a scout, so I die very rarely to ADSes (low profile+cloak=ADS don't see me). So it doesn't really affect me personally. But it is a glaring imbalance in what is otherwise a pretty balanced game now. Bring a proto FG with you and when theres an ads jump out and shoot it SLAYER.
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 1084	Posted - 2014.08.19 00:43:00 - [100] - Quote A very wise man named Aldin Kan would like to have a word with you, OP. Amarrica! It's Not Safe to Swim.

anaboop Avarice Defense Industries 139	Posted - 2014.08.19 04:14:00 - [101] - Quote Afterburner increase in cooldown would keep the ads at bay, 10s is to short. Higher angle of firing for missiles and rail guns to decrease that blind spot would also kill or keep the ads at bay. Without nerfing the ads direactly since they are in a good position (minus the skill stacking) Fully sick Anaboop trading card
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 67	Posted - 2014.08.19 05:18:00 - [102] - Quote anaboop wrote: Afterburner increase in cooldown would keep the ads at bay, 10s is to short. Higher angle of firing for missiles and rail guns to decrease that blind spot would also kill or keep the ads at bay. Without nerfing the ads direactly since they are in a good position (minus the skill stacking) How bout no, theyre perfect right now. Youre just looking for something new to nerf. This game isnt just about infantry.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1052	Posted - 2014.08.19 05:21:00 - [103] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: rpastry wrote: Its demonstrated every battle when an ADS turns up. 10 ADS flies in. 20 ADS hovers and pelts stuff with its XT-1. 30 ADS takes fire. 40 ADS flies away. 50 ADS recharges at range, completely invulnerable to all ground forces. 60 GOTO 10 Infantry side; Infantry is fighting infantry Infantry gets one-shotted by an ADS while fighting enemy infantry. Infantry spawns with AV. Infantry tries to shoot ADS while also avoiding enemy infantry. Infantry observes ADS behaviour described above. Infantry side looks more like this for me: Breakin Stuff is hunting for tanks and dropships in a suicide sled (LAV) Breakin Stuff spots ADS menacing allies. Breakin Stuff Moves to contact: 150M between ADS and friendly redline. Breakin Stuff shoots ADS twice in rapid succession before the ADS pilot realizes what has happened and begins maneuvering wildly to escape. Breakin Stuff fires a third snap-shot to attempt the kill. 1/3 ADS are successfully led, crash and explode. +75 WP. Breakin Stuff reloads Forge gun and returns to vehicular homicide patrol pattern. Breakin Stuff Inevitably screws up and gets knifed, because he's really terrible at everything but killing vehicles. Breakin Stuff respawns as AV This is a more accurate picture of what it looks like from the PoV of a primary AV gunner. ADS are not invulnerable. Just ask Judge. I'm pretty sure he's seen me shoot the things down. Or gotten shot down by me at least once. Yes, this is more or less the pattern for me, except for Pythons. Pythons, even when I totally surprise them, hit their engines and hurt them badly, still manage to do a pirouette up to flight ceiling and get away unless someone else manages to hit them also. It is the only fit I feel like I am losing to the fit and not the pilot. Because of this I don't want changes to infantry AV. Faster swarms make sense because even LAV's are outrunning them, but can this be done without driving off vehicle users, I don't know. I think we are on the edge and could fall off with anything beyond very small tweaks. Because, that's why.
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1814	Posted - 2014.08.19 05:34:00 - [104] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The only 'counters' I came up with were: 1) Stay near the redline so you have a half chance of escaping. 2) Use cheaper tank (lower tier turret or militia hull) so when an ADS inevitably kills you it doesn't cost so much. Obviously neither of those things are actually counters, they're basically just ways of accepting defeat. Your right, those aren't counters and you didn't try hard enough to actually come up with a way to counter it. As both a missile tanker and a python pilot I have a perspective from both views. What tanks and dropships both face when engaging each other. There are a few strategies that I and I'm sure many other tankers have developed to counter an ads above a tank, or in its blind spot. 1.) Fit a nitros on your tank. This is something that even a rookie tanker can think up. Tanks can pretty much stop on a dime and change direction, this can catch pilots unaware and line you up for a shot. By simply going backwards and forwards you can throw off and adses aim quite easily and allow your tank to regen. It also makes it a lot easier to find cover or retreat to the redline as a dropship has to accelerate pretty hard to keep up. Throw in some maneuvers and suddenly retreating isn't a problem anymore. At its core, increase the speed and evasion of your tank. 2.) Draw them to turrets or ground troops. Large missile turrets actually provide great AA cover and throw off a dropships aim. If there is an AA turret or blaster heck even a rail you can buy yourself some valuable time to rep up as the dropship struggles to both evade and attack at the same time. 3.) Squad with another tanker. You have no idea how hard it can be to engage two tanks who are working together and cover each others backs. When I'm playing with my tanker buddy and we encounter an ads we set up in a defensive formation that either kills or forces a retreat from the dropship. 4.) (Personal favorite and my most recommended) fit two small rails to your tank. Have av hop inside, preferably a swarmer and a forger. Anytime a dropship gets in your blind spot he will have a nasty surprise waiting for him. Not only does this provide AA defense for your tank, but also helps in armor engagements, especially when you are out numbered. Using this tactic my crew and I destroyed 3 hostile tanks with our one. Furthermore small rails are excellent for eliminating infantry and give your tank amazing AI capabilities. Entire teams can be snuffed out if they are caught in the open, for tanks that lack good AI (eg rail and missile tanks) small rails become an additional offensive system. So, AA and anti armor support that moves with you and also acts as AI when garrisoned. Honestly if you don't have gunners your doing it wrong. Really tho make an effort, even a rookie tanker could figure out #1. Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4714	Posted - 2014.08.19 05:38:00 - [105] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The dark cloud wrote: I fly myself quite alot of times a ADS and its not that easy. Swarms and forgeguns can effectively deny airspace for dropships and if the pilot is too cocky he gets shot down. There is minimal room for mistakes. If the pilot makes a wrong choice or understimates the AV firepower he gets shot down fast. Forgeguns have a range of 300m and you surely can destroy any ADS in time. Do you think we should buff Swarms more in terms of damage? or would changes to missile speed and turn radius make more sense to you? Do you think they are close to right or still in need of a balance pass? The swarm is the least player-skill intensive weapon in the game. You don't even aim the thing. It needs to do the bare minimum required of its job and nothing more. That means chasing off vehicles who aren't in a good position to deal with them, NOT absolutely wrecking them with no chance to get away. The only time a swarm should actually kill anything is if the driver is being a stubborn idiot and refuses to leave the area. Two swarms is another story. And right now, they do enough damage.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1052	Posted - 2014.08.19 05:40:00 - [106] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: 4. Have their high jumping cloaked scout buddies come and shoot you in the face. Cost of doing business. Nothing is assured. Oh I'm sorry, did you want a 100% effective, all the time method of beating an enemy that never fails? Get the hell over it. If you're going to run Forge, pick a kill spot that's inconvenient for scouts to get to, take your shots and move. Standing still for the scout to get you is a moron move. And you bitching that the scout will kill you before you can kill the dropship tells me TEAMWORK is OP, not the ship. Get off your ass and learn to kill them. I do not, Let me say this again for the hell of it... I do NOT have any difficulty pasting ADS or rendering them impotent while farming their stupid asses for warpoints while they flee for the redline. ADS are the path to winning for smart AV. DUST is about COMBINED ARMS. Which means Infantry support tanks, tanks support infantry. THis does not mean that Tanks are lone wolf kings of everything. That attitude results in me burning tanks down like nothing. THe ones who stay close to their infantry invariably kick my ass. ADS is no different. It gets too close to a forge gunner or tanker with proper support, and all he's doing is crapping out WP and being impotent while we laugh at him. Funny answer, considering that I only listed the most common form of death for infantry AV. Because, that's why.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 955	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:10:00 - [107] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: stick a small rail turret on your top gun, swap to it when a red ADS flys over you and pop it out of the sky with OP small rail damage... you can tank more hits then he can so he has to GTFO or be ganked by your tank. what im seeing is that you dont know how to fit your tanks. (doesnt require two people... you just have to understand teh concept of switching seats.) Never fit a tank before have you? What happens when you put a small rail on top of your tank? An ally finds their way in and uses up all of the ammo inevitably. Not only that, but the small rail cannot shoot upwards high enough to actually hit the ADS above you... You are now IMMOBILE, and the ADS can strafe on a point with your tank at the center, while your turret must turn to face the ADS, they are ALWAYS facing you. I feel that you've never actually "run" a tank fit, but have fun "insulting through theorycrafting". In order to "Shoot Back" you must be nearly immobile on an incline, and it must tilt in the direction of the ADS. Since terrain is a requirement to get the small rail to point at the ADS, all they have to do is move to the new blind spot, and hover in place while shooting. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
anaboop Avarice Defense Industries 139	Posted - 2014.08.19 08:01:00 - [108] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: anaboop wrote: Afterburner increase in cooldown would keep the ads at bay, 10s is to short. Higher angle of firing for missiles and rail guns to decrease that blind spot would also kill or keep the ads at bay. Without nerfing the ads direactly since they are in a good position (minus the skill stacking) How bout no, theyre perfect right now. Youre just looking for something new to nerf. This game isnt just about infantry. Umm ok? Why dont you read the whole thread, this is a reasonable suggestion. So yeah HTFU. Fully sick Anaboop trading card
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1572	Posted - 2014.08.19 08:29:00 - [109] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: shaman oga wrote: Step 1. Mount little turrets on your HAV Step 2. Acquire a friendly forge (or two, the second is optional) Step 3. Harvest tears from DS pilots. Multiple tank crew should not be required to counter one ADS pilot. Lol. Tankers have screamed FOREVER that it should take more than one person to kill them. Yet if they are required to use another player to kill an ADS they kick and scream. Tankers are such unskilled pussies. Dude I am not a tanker. I have <200 kills on my tanker alt and 54,000> kills on my infantry main. I have consistently said that it should take one person to counter one person. I said that when tanks were ridiculously OP in 1.7, now I'm saying it with OP ADSes.
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1167	Posted - 2014.08.19 08:38:00 - [110] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: stick a small rail turret on your top gun, swap to it when a red ADS flys over you and pop it out of the sky with OP small rail damage... you can tank more hits then he can so he has to GTFO or be ganked by your tank. what im seeing is that you dont know how to fit your tanks. (doesnt require two people... you just have to understand teh concept of switching seats.) This is the best answer so far (though I never said you needed two people... the post I was replying to brought in the 'two people' concept. Even so, you have to make a lot of compromises to your fit to get that small rail in, that will only get used vs. an ADS. And even then, it will never really kill the ADS, just scare them off, so we still await the true counter to the ADS. But still, this isn't a bad defensive idea in the meantime and I'll give it a spin. it's true, the ADS can't maintain it's assault vs this HAV w/ small turret unless it's suicidal. you need ADV turrets tho. there's also the chance to suprise the pilot but players always fire in full anger mode at the wrong range/out of range, alerting the pilot instead of ambushing. also the days are over where pilot laughs off the SL hits there not as UP as everyone thinks. incubus vs good HAV takes minutes to kill even more so if it's gallente HAV., plenty of time for some kind of response outside of the normal panic mode of tank going back and forth in between some obstacles. also if you put an AV guy in your turret who's worth af AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012

Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1572	Posted - 2014.08.19 09:01:00 - [111] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: A very wise man named Aldin Kan would like to have a word with you, OP. I repeat, it is not possible to down a well built ADS unless they allow you to. Even if you hit with every shot the charge time is too long to get enough shots off before they're out of range. Of course FGers like Aldin can get lots of ADS kills because (1) some ADS are not built well and (2) some pilots allow themselves to be killed. (1) applies a lot in pubs because pubs=scrubs. (2) applies a lot in PC because, in order to support the team, pilots have to be excessively aggressive (which they don't in pubs).
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1572	Posted - 2014.08.19 09:08:00 - [112] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: stick a small rail turret on your top gun, swap to it when a red ADS flys over you and pop it out of the sky with OP small rail damage... you can tank more hits then he can so he has to GTFO or be ganked by your tank. what im seeing is that you dont know how to fit your tanks. (doesnt require two people... you just have to understand teh concept of switching seats.) This is the best answer so far (though I never said you needed two people... the post I was replying to brought in the 'two people' concept. Even so, you have to make a lot of compromises to your fit to get that small rail in, that will only get used vs. an ADS. And even then, it will never really kill the ADS, just scare them off, so we still await the true counter to the ADS. But still, this isn't a bad defensive idea in the meantime and I'll give it a spin. it's true, the ADS can't maintain it's assault vs this HAV w/ small turret unless it's suicidal. you need ADV turrets tho. there's also the chance to suprise the pilot but players always fire in full anger mode at the wrong range/out of range, alerting the pilot instead of ambushing. also the days are over where pilot laughs off the SL hits there not as UP as everyone thinks. incubus vs good HAV takes minutes to kill even more so if it's gallente HAV., plenty of time for some kind of response outside of the normal panic mode of tank going back and forth in between some obstacles. also if you put an AV guy in your turret who's worth af I tried this, as others have said, the problem is that the first small turret goes on the front regardless of which slot you assign it to, so you have to fit two turrets which means a really gimped tank fit.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2231	Posted - 2014.08.19 10:11:00 - [113] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: A very wise man named Aldin Kan would like to have a word with you, OP. I repeat, it is not possible to down a well built ADS unless they allow you to. Even if you hit with every shot the charge time is too long to get enough shots off before they're out of range. This is with IAFG, two damage mods, prof 5. Of course FGers like Aldin can get lots of ADS kills because (1) some ADS are not built well and (2) some pilots allow themselves to be killed. (1) applies a lot in pubs because pubs=scrubs. (2) applies a lot in PC because, in order to support the team, pilots have to be excessively aggressive (which they don't in pubs). If dropships are impossible to kill why am I able to kill them with an ADV AFG or breach, 2 ADV mods and prof 4? Serious question. Not anecdotal. I successfully shoot down pythons and incubi with breaches ans AFGs of all types.
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1815	Posted - 2014.08.19 11:03:00 - [114] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: A very wise man named Aldin Kan would like to have a word with you, OP. I repeat, it is not possible to down a well built ADS unless they allow you to. Even if you hit with every shot the charge time is too long to get enough shots off before they're out of range. This is with IAFG, two damage mods, prof 5. Of course FGers like Aldin can get lots of ADS kills because (1) some ADS are not built well and (2) some pilots allow themselves to be killed. (1) applies a lot in pubs because pubs=scrubs. (2) applies a lot in PC because, in order to support the team, pilots have to be excessively aggressive (which they don't in pubs). This is narrow minded, you are ignoring the other half of the equation. The skill and equipment of the aver. Avers with good skill and trigger discipline can down a max skill ads fit. It requires some experience from the aver to know that the first mover advantage is theirs and not to fire until the dropship is in a good position to strike. Hunting dropships also requires a bit of coordination to know where it is and what its doing. Teamwork is the best way to get a dropship in one blow, a friend and I enjoy laving around with a rail turret, I use my cal heavy and an IAFG to gun. If we encounter an ads he positions the leave in a good spot, I hop out and start charging while he gets on the gun and opens up. My shot hits and by the time he starts running its already over. Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer
Symbioticforks Pure Evil. 656	Posted - 2014.08.19 11:06:00 - [115] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? ADS should have smaller clip sizes, make them more anti infantry. I think that's what this guy wants. Sniping Dust 514 (video series)
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1572	Posted - 2014.08.19 11:38:00 - [116] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: A very wise man named Aldin Kan would like to have a word with you, OP. I repeat, it is not possible to down a well built ADS unless they allow you to. Even if you hit with every shot the charge time is too long to get enough shots off before they're out of range. This is with IAFG, two damage mods, prof 5. Of course FGers like Aldin can get lots of ADS kills because (1) some ADS are not built well and (2) some pilots allow themselves to be killed. (1) applies a lot in pubs because pubs=scrubs. (2) applies a lot in PC because, in order to support the team, pilots have to be excessively aggressive (which they don't in pubs). If dropships are impossible to kill why am I able to kill them with an ADV AFG or breach, 2 ADV mods and prof 4? Serious question. Not anecdotal. I successfully shoot down pythons and incubi with breaches ans AFGs of all types. Dude, I already covered this. They are badly fitted ADSes or badly piloted. I have killed scrub ADSes myself. If they keep hovering after the first IAFG shot they're dead. Point is, outside of PC any competent pilot will disappear into the heavens when the first shot hits, charge time is too long to finish the job before they're out of range.
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1572	Posted - 2014.08.19 11:41:00 - [117] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: THUNDERGROOVE wrote: A very wise man named Aldin Kan would like to have a word with you, OP. I repeat, it is not possible to down a well built ADS unless they allow you to. Even if you hit with every shot the charge time is too long to get enough shots off before they're out of range. This is with IAFG, two damage mods, prof 5. Of course FGers like Aldin can get lots of ADS kills because (1) some ADS are not built well and (2) some pilots allow themselves to be killed. (1) applies a lot in pubs because pubs=scrubs. (2) applies a lot in PC because, in order to support the team, pilots have to be excessively aggressive (which they don't in pubs). This is narrow minded, you are ignoring the other half of the equation. The skill and equipment of the aver. Avers with good skill and trigger discipline can down a max skill ads fit. It requires some experience from the aver to know that the first mover advantage is theirs and not to fire until the dropship is in a good position to strike. Hunting dropships also requires a bit of coordination to know where it is and what its doing. Teamwork is the best way to get a dropship in one blow, a friend and I enjoy laving around with a rail turret, I use my cal heavy and an IAFG to gun. If we encounter an ads he positions the leave in a good spot, I hop out and start charging while he gets on the gun and opens up. My shot hits and by the time he starts running its already over. Yes, you can dedicate two men to countering a single ADS pilot, but you're then giving the reds a numerical advantage.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2233	Posted - 2014.08.19 11:53:00 - [118] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Yes, you can dedicate two men to countering a single ADS pilot, but you're then giving the reds a numerical advantage. You just don't want to acknowledge you might be wrong, do you? I, and several others, routinely solo or drive ADS pilots to recall and quit flying entirely. Two AV can basically alpha down any dropship. One can do it with timing and position. All I am hearing from you is screams for nerfs on something that is difficult to destroy by claiming it is impossible. My kill counts disagree with you. So do the burned wrecks of the dropships. And no one "lets" you waste their half-mil ISK autism chariots, whether dropship or HAV. I know no ADS pilot is sitting there going "oh breakin is using good effort. I'll die in a fire to make him happy." There is skill and awareness. With tanks and dropships, good fits and intelligent drivers rarely die unless they make a mistake. The job of AV is to startle them and panic them into making that mistake. Panicked animals die.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3861	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:03:00 - [119] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: lol this thread Put small rails on, yea gimp your tank fit Jump into the small turret seat, yea so some bluedot can nick it aswell as gimping your tank Jump out with a FG, yea so some bluedot can nick it Basically all answers are use a FG so the tank isnt needed at all Ah, so infantry having to switch to AV gear, or better switch to a tank, in order to fight a tank is a good thing but a tanker having to change something to fight an ADS is unfair? To put rails on you cimp your fit since you generally dont have enough PG/CPU since we are not allowed adv/proto hulls If you jump out with a FG bluedot nicks it and you are not in control of your tank which may have a module ready to activate Basically they are poor options, those options prove that you do not need a tank, just go around with a LAV instead No it simply proves you need something other than one solution. Infantry doesn't have 1 solution to all it's problems. Even a commando needs protection from scouts, sentinels, explosives, Snipers, Mass Drivers, Plasma Cannons and so forth. Your tank, is not the be all and end all of combat But it isnt Missile is a ***** to kill infantry with, so i need small missiles Railgun rewards extreme accuracy to hit infantry but the turret turn too slow so its best against armored vehicles and installations so again i need small turrets Blaster used to be able to take care of infantry and vehicles to a lesser extent, 1.0 days you needed a heat sink when killing a vehicle at least but now the turret has problems hitting infantry and its dispersion can be quite big it will miss a LAV Problem is that the maddy barely has enough CPU to fit a proper tank let alone anything extra on it, small turrets aint great at range even if you can see the person and also we still dont have adv/proto hulls
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1815	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:13:00 - [120] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Yes, you can dedicate two men to countering a single ADS pilot, but you're then giving the reds a numerical advantage. A single forge gunner can destroy an ads, but it takes longer and is less reliable. With the afore mentioned strategy, note that I said if we encounter an ads. That two man squad can take on tanks, other lavs, and infantry. They can cap points, deploy proxies or remotes, provide scans and recon and reinforce positions. For a moment you are fighting 2 on one to effectively eliminate a highly dangerous threat before moving on to other tasks, tanks and other lavs also require two on one. One could also argue that fighting infantry in a two man lav (driver/gunner) is "giving the reds a numerical advantage" it would be a dumb argument but one could. How is this any different than taking on a heavy? When I'm in my medium suit I need another person to help me take it down, or waste most of my ammo and nades and a good chunk of my HP. Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer

Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1572	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:21:00 - [121] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Yes, you can dedicate two men to countering a single ADS pilot, but you're then giving the reds a numerical advantage. You just don't want to acknowledge you might be wrong, do you? 16-1=15. 16-2=14. So no, I am not wrong. Quote: Two AV can basically alpha down any dropship. Correct, but then you're effectively numerically inferior as I mentioned. Quote: One can do it with timing and position. All I am hearing from you is screams for nerfs on something that is difficult to destroy by claiming it is impossible. I am not screaming for nerfs. I don't care, it doesn't really affect me, I'm a cloaked scout that ADSes rarely see. I have a slight preference for the game to be balanced even in ways that don't impact me, but if others don't then I guess that's fine, I have no skin in the game. Quote: My kill counts disagree with you. So do the burned wrecks of the dropships. And no one "lets" you waste their half-mil ISK autism chariots, whether dropship or HAV. I know no ADS pilot is sitting there going "oh breakin is using good effort. I'll die in a fire to make him happy." No, they think 'this guy is stopping me from killing infantry and tanks, I want to kill him'. By trying to kill you, they let you kill them. The entire engagement after the first shot is at the discretion of the ADS pilot - if they wanted to stay alive more than they wanted to kill you they'd be at the flight ceiling already. I have killed plenty of dropships too. The point is, I only killed the ADSes 1 on 1 that opted to stay within range after the first shot or made some other stupid mistake (e.g. engaging with hardeners on cooldown). So did you. Maybe it makes you feel good to think that it is your uberskill that downed the ADS. I'm more realistic, I know if I down an ADS on my own the FAA investigation would say 'pilot error'.
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1572	Posted - 2014.08.19 12:24:00 - [122] - Quote I'm done with this thread, I've spent more time here than I ever have thinking about ADS in game. I'm a cloaked scout, ADS is not really my problem.
Juno Tristan Inner.Hell 68	Posted - 2014.08.19 13:19:00 - [123] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: I'm done with this thread, I've spent more time here than I ever have thinking about ADS in game. I'm a cloaked scout, ADS is not really my problem. Then I'll put this in your terms Expecting to beat an ADS that has gotten the drop on you is trying to shotgun a heavy from the front, you can bunny hop all you like but that HMG is going to take you out. but being aware of your surroundings, using cover and teamwork really can do wonders
lunatis orrak Battlefield Brawlers 44	Posted - 2014.08.19 13:23:00 - [124] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: OP you used to have a railgun that was able to hit harder, OH less, fire quicker and also have a 600m range until the lolcpm member in the thread got the railgun nerfed so he could hover in safety If it was upto him he would want the railgun removed so you would have 0 defence against an ADS https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1638265#post1638265 Actually the range was reduced because it outclassed blaster turrets and for the little fact that wwe used to have at least two tanks sitting on the red line hill rail sniping all the way to objective get your facts right. CHUBBY CHASER FOR LIFE `!BEWARE MY FAT BULLDOGS! The leash is not for your protection`
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1815	Posted - 2014.08.19 13:25:00 - [125] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: No, they think 'this guy is stopping me from killing infantry and tanks, I want to kill him'. By trying to kill you, they let you kill them. The entire engagement after the first shot is at the discretion of the ADS pilot - if they wanted to stay alive more than they wanted to kill you they'd be at the flight ceiling already. I have killed plenty of dropships too. The point is, I only killed the ADSes 1 on 1 that opted to stay within range after the first shot or made some other stupid mistake (e.g. engaging with hardeners on cooldown). So did you. Maybe it makes you feel good to think that it is your uberskill that downed the ADS. I'm more realistic, I know if I down an ADS on my own the FAA investigation would say 'pilot error'. This was tolerable until you started guessing as to what a pilot thinks without having a clue as to how dropships operate or the challenges a pilot faces. Dropship pilots are blind a good portion of the time, objects and infantry sometimes don't render until you are 10m away and sometimes don't render at all. Swarms are invisible, even when the swarmer is standing 40m in front of you firing volleys at you. When you are hit the hit marker indicates the opposite direction that you were actually hit making all kinds of confusion. Sometimes there is absolutely no indicator that you have been hit, forge hits, no knock back, no blue flare, your HP just drops, but then why would you check your HP if nothing has indicated that something painful just smacked you? There is no trail to follow on a forge gun and swarms are invisible so there is ALOT of guess work involved in actually finding the threat and even if you hover over them there is a chance they won't render until an invisible swarm hits or you see the forge ball 2 inches from your face. This is partly why dropships disengage and hightail it out so often. We have false/no information to actually go off of when encountering av. Most flying is guess work and gut feelings and many many runs to just find where the av is. Yet you make it sound like we can see you from the flight ceiling! From your first sentence I can see how you think, from a dropship pilots perspective I would be thinking "damn a forge gun, can't provide cover for my squad, he's gonna be able to hit me from 600m and it could really hurt. I have find out where he is, too much of a threat to not know. Maybe if he is milita, or really bad, I can fight him, otherwise I need to know where I can take cover." Do you honestly expect me, a seasoned dropship pilot with two years of flying experience, in my 700k isk dropship, to turn and attempt to look for a swarmer after being hit by an invisible volley that has taken down a third of my shields and knocked me all over, with another invisible volley on the way and no indication or visual confirmation of the threat(s?)?! No I'm gonna get the fu*k out of there! You tell me you wouldn't do the same. You know nothing of dropships, which explains why you have no idea how to fight them. Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3861	Posted - 2014.08.19 13:41:00 - [126] - Quote lunatis orrak wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: OP you used to have a railgun that was able to hit harder, OH less, fire quicker and also have a 600m range until the lolcpm member in the thread got the railgun nerfed so he could hover in safety If it was upto him he would want the railgun removed so you would have 0 defence against an ADS https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1638265#post1638265 Actually the range was reduced because it outclassed blaster turrets and for the little fact that wwe used to have at least two tanks sitting on the red line hill rail sniping all the way to objective get your facts right. Blaster turrets were more AI than AV even so they turned alot quicker than a railgun and add in a nitro you could easily outgun a railgun in CQC but you had to know what you were doing They were nerfed because of DS complaints, good ADS pilots didnt have a problem and if hill sniping is a problem then move back the redline 500m problem solved Get your facts right
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1815	Posted - 2014.08.19 13:53:00 - [127] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: They were nerfed because of DS complaints, good ADS pilots didnt have a problem and if hill sniping is a problem then move back the redline 500m problem solved Get your facts right Yeah it was a problem. I was getting pretty sick of getting hit half way across the map by a tank that was 400m in the redline. I was pretty tiered of waiting for camping girls to move close enough to the edge of the redline that I might be able to make a strafe run. Oh and them shooting at me from 500m back to the flight ceiling while I was waiting for them to grow a pair. Master Skyshark rider Kaalaka dakka tamer
lunatis orrak Battlefield Brawlers 44	Posted - 2014.08.19 14:00:00 - [128] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: lunatis orrak wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: OP you used to have a railgun that was able to hit harder, OH less, fire quicker and also have a 600m range until the lolcpm member in the thread got the railgun nerfed so he could hover in safety If it was upto him he would want the railgun removed so you would have 0 defence against an ADS https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1638265#post1638265 Actually the range was reduced because it outclassed blaster turrets and for the little fact that wwe used to have at least two tanks sitting on the red line hill rail sniping all the way to objective get your facts right. Blaster turrets were more AI than AV even so they turned alot quicker than a railgun and add in a nitro you could easily outgun a railgun in CQC but you had to know what you were doing They were nerfed because of DS complaints, good ADS pilots didnt have a problem and if hill sniping is a problem then move back the redline 500m problem solved Get your facts right Actually no they weren't so your not just a scrub in game but on forum to its as simple as thinking when the rail was nerfed and searching that update discussions good job bud but just like a forum scrub you take everything out of context and try to flip it to pertain to your arguement. CHUBBY CHASER FOR LIFE `!BEWARE MY FAT BULLDOGS! The leash is not for your protection`
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1573	Posted - 2014.08.19 14:22:00 - [129] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: No, they think 'this guy is stopping me from killing infantry and tanks, I want to kill him'. By trying to kill you, they let you kill them. The entire engagement after the first shot is at the discretion of the ADS pilot - if they wanted to stay alive more than they wanted to kill you they'd be at the flight ceiling already. I have killed plenty of dropships too. The point is, I only killed the ADSes 1 on 1 that opted to stay within range after the first shot or made some other stupid mistake (e.g. engaging with hardeners on cooldown). So did you. Maybe it makes you feel good to think that it is your uberskill that downed the ADS. I'm more realistic, I know if I down an ADS on my own the FAA investigation would say 'pilot error'. This was tolerable until you started guessing as to what a pilot thinks without having a clue as to how dropships operate or the challenges a pilot faces. Dropship pilots are blind a good portion of the time, objects and infantry sometimes don't render until you are 10m away and sometimes don't render at all. Swarms are invisible, even when the swarmer is standing 40m in front of you firing volleys at you. When you are hit the hit marker indicates the opposite direction that you were actually hit making all kinds of confusion. Sometimes there is absolutely no indicator that you have been hit, forge hits, no knock back, no blue flare, your HP just drops, but then why would you check your HP if nothing has indicated that something painful just smacked you? There is no trail to follow on a forge gun and swarms are invisible so there is ALOT of guess work involved in actually finding the threat and even if you hover over them there is a chance they won't render until an invisible swarm hits or you see the forge ball 2 inches from your face. This is partly why dropships disengage and hightail it out so often. We have false/no information to actually go off of when encountering av. Most flying is guess work and gut feelings and many many runs to just find where the av is. Yet you make it sound like we can see you from the flight ceiling! From your first sentence I can see how you think, from a dropship pilots perspective I would be thinking "damn a forge gun, can't provide cover for my squad, he's gonna be able to hit me from 600m and it could really hurt. I have find out where he is, too much of a threat to not know. Maybe if he is milita, or really bad, I can fight him, otherwise I need to know where I can take cover." Do you honestly expect me, a seasoned dropship pilot with two years of flying experience, in my 700k isk dropship, to turn and attempt to look for a swarmer after being hit by an invisible volley that has taken down a third of my shields and knocked me all over, with another invisible volley on the way and no indication or visual confirmation of the threat(s?)?! No I'm gonna get the fu*k out of there! You tell me you wouldn't do the same. You know nothing of dropships, which explains why you have no idea how to fight them. This is why the forums are so pointless. I repeatedly said that ADS only die when they hang around after they get shot and that a competent pilot disappears at that point, but you seem to think im saying the opposite, that a good pilot hovers under fire so they can get killed. And dont even get me started on the forge guns that you think are hitting you at 600m
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 312	Posted - 2014.08.19 14:34:00 - [130] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: No, they think 'this guy is stopping me from killing infantry and tanks, I want to kill him'. By trying to kill you, they let you kill them. The entire engagement after the first shot is at the discretion of the ADS pilot - if they wanted to stay alive more than they wanted to kill you they'd be at the flight ceiling already. I have killed plenty of dropships too. The point is, I only killed the ADSes 1 on 1 that opted to stay within range after the first shot or made some other stupid mistake (e.g. engaging with hardeners on cooldown). So did you. Maybe it makes you feel good to think that it is your uberskill that downed the ADS. I'm more realistic, I know if I down an ADS on my own the FAA investigation would say 'pilot error'. This was tolerable until you started guessing as to what a pilot thinks without having a clue as to how dropships operate or the challenges a pilot faces. Dropship pilots are blind a good portion of the time, objects and infantry sometimes don't render until you are 10m away and sometimes don't render at all. Swarms are invisible, even when the swarmer is standing 40m in front of you firing volleys at you. When you are hit the hit marker indicates the opposite direction that you were actually hit making all kinds of confusion. Sometimes there is absolutely no indicator that you have been hit, forge hits, no knock back, no blue flare, your HP just drops, but then why would you check your HP if nothing has indicated that something painful just smacked you? There is no trail to follow on a forge gun and swarms are invisible so there is ALOT of guess work involved in actually finding the threat and even if you hover over them there is a chance they won't render until an invisible swarm hits or you see the forge ball 2 inches from your face. This is partly why dropships disengage and hightail it out so often. We have false/no information to actually go off of when encountering av. Most flying is guess work and gut feelings and many many runs to just find where the av is. Yet you make it sound like we can see you from the flight ceiling! From your first sentence I can see how you think, from a dropship pilots perspective I would be thinking "damn a forge gun, can't provide cover for my squad, he's gonna be able to hit me from 600m and it could really hurt. I have find out where he is, too much of a threat to not know. Maybe if he is milita, or really bad, I can fight him, otherwise I need to know where I can take cover." Do you honestly expect me, a seasoned dropship pilot with two years of flying experience, in my 700k isk dropship, to turn and attempt to look for a swarmer after being hit by an invisible volley that has taken down a third of my shields and knocked me all over, with another invisible volley on the way and no indication or visual confirmation of the threat(s?)?! No I'm gonna get the fu*k out of there! You tell me you wouldn't do the same. You know nothing of dropships, which explains why you have no idea how to fight them. This is why the forums are so pointless. I repeatedly said that ADS only die when they hang around after they get shot and that a competent pilot disappears at that point, but you seem to think im saying the opposite, that a good pilot hovers under fire so they can get killed. And dont even get me started on the forge guns that you think are hitting you at 600m So you want to nerf the "good" pilots and not the rubbish ones... Can we do the same with ground troops, just nerf it it'll only effect the people that use it well & not the people who suck hard, because they'll still drop like flies anyway, once we have everything dropping in 1 shot it'll all be fair. What about dropships with small blasters? it's near impossible to use, but fun... You want this gone. Anything not stacking ads rof bonuses... You want them gone. anything that isn't just flying past every 2 minutes firing 1 or 2 missiles, should be gone because missiles are too strong against infantry... I can turn tail and run from you as a commando... I go behind a wall, you follow, I shoot you in the face with a shotgun... you gonna cry for nerfs on that because you can't just kill me without thinking before hand?

iKILLu osborne Dead Man's Game 182	Posted - 2014.08.19 14:52:00 - [131] - Quote i run both ads and tanks and here is a secret when running away from ads stop all of asudden if you keep moving at the same speed in a straight line to redline to where ads doesn't have too adjust his aim/positioning you deserve to die. "uh guys" "i got to go back to the depot that installation made me crap my dropsuit"
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3861	Posted - 2014.08.19 14:53:00 - [132] - Quote lunatis orrak wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: lunatis orrak wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: OP you used to have a railgun that was able to hit harder, OH less, fire quicker and also have a 600m range until the lolcpm member in the thread got the railgun nerfed so he could hover in safety If it was upto him he would want the railgun removed so you would have 0 defence against an ADS https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1638265#post1638265 Actually the range was reduced because it outclassed blaster turrets and for the little fact that wwe used to have at least two tanks sitting on the red line hill rail sniping all the way to objective get your facts right. Blaster turrets were more AI than AV even so they turned alot quicker than a railgun and add in a nitro you could easily outgun a railgun in CQC but you had to know what you were doing They were nerfed because of DS complaints, good ADS pilots didnt have a problem and if hill sniping is a problem then move back the redline 500m problem solved Get your facts right Actually no they weren't so your not just a scrub in game but on forum to its as simple as thinking when the rail was nerfed and searching that update discussions good job bud but just like a forum scrub you take everything out of context and try to flip it to pertain to your arguement. Wrong again The problem has always been the redline, not the range, if the redline is moved back then the hills are no good and even if they sit at the hills the redline is back 500m so they have a way to go when an ADS can swoop in from behind and nail em but no nerf the turret into the ground as usual instead of fixing the real problem


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.