Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly?

Ah, so infantry having to switch to AV gear, or better switch to a tank, in order to fight a tank is a good thing but a tanker having to change something to fight an ADS is unfair?

Multiple tank crew should not be required to counter one ADS pilot.

To put rails on you cimp your fit since you generally dont have enough PG/CPU since we are not allowed adv/proto hulls

If you jump out with a FG bluedot nicks it and you are not in control of your tank which may have a module ready to activate

Basically they are poor options, those options prove that you do not need a tank, just go around with a LAV instead

Ah, so infantry having to switch to AV gear, or better switch to a tank, in order to fight a tank is a good thing but a tanker having to change something to fight an ADS is unfair?

4. Have their high jumping cloaked scout buddies come and shoot you in the face.

This is the only answer you have, 'do you fly ADS?'. When you tire of your ad hominems you can tell me what the counter to an ADS is. Another dropship does not count, nor does a forgegun (since you can only get off enough shots to kill an ADS if the pilot chooses to let you).

To put rails on you cimp your fit since you generally dont have enough PG/CPU since we are not allowed adv/proto hulls

If you jump out with a FG bluedot nicks it and you are not in control of your tank which may have a module ready to activate

Basically they are poor options, those options prove that you do not need a tank, just go around with a LAV instead

Played on my tank alt for a couple of hours. Think I'm beginning to understand how it is that tankers are frustrated even though they seem to be able to dominate the battlefield. AV and enemy tanks put up a decent fight but I managed to keep my tank in one piece (killed six tanks in one battle). I only died twice, both times to the same ADS pilot (in different battles). I couldn't really see how I could do anything differently - once they're above you (which is instantly) you're toast, hardeners just extend the agony of being pecked to death

The only 'counters' I came up with were:

1) Stay near the redline so you have a half chance of escaping.
2) Use cheaper tank (lower tier turret or militia hull) so when an ADS inevitably kills you it doesn't cost so much.

Obviously neither of those things are actually counters, they're basically just ways of accepting defeat. If ADSes were a specific anti-tank weapon this wouldn't be so bad, but they terrorize infantry just as much.

The only thing that is even slightly effective against an ADS is a forge gun, and even then the pilot can choose to escape if they wish. There is nothing (apart from another dropship) that is a true counter to an ADS, i.e. a mortal threat even to a competent pilot. And in any case a forge gunner is giving up a lot to offer that minor threat. They are sitting ducks for any other infantry. An ADS isn't a sitting duck for anything, it dominates almost everything and even has a good chance against its supposed counter.

How to fix this? For that kind of power, an ADS should have SOME vulnerabilities. Obviously a reduction in ADS HP is one option, so AV can counter more effectively. An increase to large railgun range and railgun modifier power would be another possibility, so ADSes couldn't hover indefinitely without risk. At any rate, something should be done. I only have 200 kills on my tank alt and usually play as a scout, so I die very rarely to ADSes (low profile+cloak=ADS don't see me). So it doesn't really affect me personally. But it is a glaring imbalance in what is otherwise a pretty balanced game now.

Afterburner increase in cooldown would keep the ads at bay, 10s is to short.

Higher angle of firing for missiles and rail guns to decrease that blind spot would also kill or keep the ads at bay.

Without nerfing the ads direactly since they are in a good position (minus the skill stacking)

Infantry side looks more like this for me:

Breakin Stuff is hunting for tanks and dropships in a suicide sled (LAV)
Breakin Stuff spots ADS menacing allies.
Breakin Stuff Moves to contact: 150M between ADS and friendly redline.
Breakin Stuff shoots ADS twice in rapid succession before the ADS pilot realizes what has happened and begins maneuvering wildly to escape.
Breakin Stuff fires a third snap-shot to attempt the kill. 1/3 ADS are successfully led, crash and explode. +75 WP.
Breakin Stuff reloads Forge gun and returns to vehicular homicide patrol pattern.
Breakin Stuff Inevitably screws up and gets knifed, because he's really terrible at everything but killing vehicles.
Breakin Stuff respawns as AV

This is a more accurate picture of what it looks like from the PoV of a primary AV gunner.

ADS are not invulnerable.

Just ask Judge. I'm pretty sure he's seen me shoot the things down. Or gotten shot down by me at least once.

The only 'counters' I came up with were:

1) Stay near the redline so you have a half chance of escaping.
2) Use cheaper tank (lower tier turret or militia hull) so when an ADS inevitably kills you it doesn't cost so much.

Obviously neither of those things are actually counters, they're basically just ways of accepting defeat.

Do you think we should buff Swarms more in terms of damage? or would changes to missile speed and turn radius make more sense to you? Do you think they are close to right or still in need of a balance pass?

Cost of doing business.

Nothing is assured.

Oh I'm sorry, did you want a 100% effective, all the time method of beating an enemy that never fails?

Get the hell over it. If you're going to run Forge, pick a kill spot that's inconvenient for scouts to get to, take your shots and move.

Standing still for the scout to get you is a moron move.

And you bitching that the scout will kill you before you can kill the dropship tells me TEAMWORK is OP, not the ship.

Get off your ass and learn to kill them. I do not,

Let me say this again for the hell of it...

I do NOT have any difficulty pasting ADS or rendering them impotent while farming their stupid asses for warpoints while they flee for the redline. ADS are the path to winning for smart AV.

DUST is about COMBINED ARMS. Which means Infantry support tanks, tanks support infantry.

THis does not mean that Tanks are lone wolf kings of everything. That attitude results in me burning tanks down like nothing. THe ones who stay close to their infantry invariably kick my ass.

ADS is no different. It gets too close to a forge gunner or tanker with proper support, and all he's doing is crapping out WP and being impotent while we laugh at him.

stick a small rail turret on your top gun, swap to it when a red ADS flys over you and pop it out of the sky with OP small rail damage...

you can tank more hits then he can so he has to GTFO or be ganked by your tank.



what im seeing is that you dont know how to fit your tanks. (doesnt require two people... you just have to understand teh concept of switching seats.)

How bout no, theyre perfect right now. Youre just looking for something new to nerf. This game isnt just about infantry.

Lol. Tankers have screamed FOREVER that it should take more than one person to kill them. Yet if they are required to use another player to kill an ADS they kick and scream. Tankers are such unskilled pussies.

This is the best answer so far (though I never said you needed two people... the post I was replying to brought in the 'two people' concept. Even so, you have to make a lot of compromises to your fit to get that small rail in, that will only get used vs. an ADS. And even then, it will never really kill the ADS, just scare them off, so we still await the true counter to the ADS. But still, this isn't a bad defensive idea in the meantime and I'll give it a spin.

A very wise man named Aldin Kan would like to have a word with you, OP.

it's true, the ADS can't maintain it's assault vs this HAV w/ small turret unless it's suicidal. you need ADV turrets tho. there's also the chance to suprise the pilot but players always fire in full anger mode at the wrong range/out of range, alerting the pilot instead of ambushing. also the days are over where pilot laughs off the SL hits there not as UP as everyone thinks. incubus vs good HAV takes minutes to kill even more so if it's gallente HAV., plenty of time for some kind of response outside of the normal panic mode of tank going back and forth in between some obstacles. also if you put an AV guy in your turret who's worth af

I repeat, it is not possible to down a well built ADS unless they allow you to. Even if you hit with every shot the charge time is too long to get enough shots off before they're out of range. This is with IAFG, two damage mods, prof 5.

Of course FGers like Aldin can get lots of ADS kills because (1) some ADS are not built well and (2) some pilots allow themselves to be killed. (1) applies a lot in pubs because pubs=scrubs. (2) applies a lot in PC because, in order to support the team, pilots have to be excessively aggressive (which they don't in pubs).

I repeat, it is not possible to down a well built ADS unless they allow you to. Even if you hit with every shot the charge time is too long to get enough shots off before they're out of range. This is with IAFG, two damage mods, prof 5.

Of course FGers like Aldin can get lots of ADS kills because (1) some ADS are not built well and (2) some pilots allow themselves to be killed. (1) applies a lot in pubs because pubs=scrubs. (2) applies a lot in PC because, in order to support the team, pilots have to be excessively aggressive (which they don't in pubs).

Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly?

If dropships are impossible to kill why am I able to kill them with an ADV AFG or breach, 2 ADV mods and prof 4?

Serious question. Not anecdotal. I successfully shoot down pythons and incubi with breaches ans AFGs of all types.

This is narrow minded, you are ignoring the other half of the equation. The skill and equipment of the aver. Avers with good skill and trigger discipline can down a max skill ads fit. It requires some experience from the aver to know that the first mover advantage is theirs and not to fire until the dropship is in a good position to strike. Hunting dropships also requires a bit of coordination to know where it is and what its doing.

Teamwork is the best way to get a dropship in one blow, a friend and I enjoy laving around with a rail turret, I use my cal heavy and an IAFG to gun. If we encounter an ads he positions the leave in a good spot, I hop out and start charging while he gets on the gun and opens up. My shot hits and by the time he starts running its already over.

Yes, you can dedicate two men to countering a single ADS pilot, but you're then giving the reds a numerical advantage.

No it simply proves you need something other than one solution. Infantry doesn't have 1 solution to all it's problems. Even a commando needs protection from scouts, sentinels, explosives, Snipers, Mass Drivers, Plasma Cannons and so forth.

Your tank, is not the be all and end all of combat

Yes, you can dedicate two men to countering a single ADS pilot, but you're then giving the reds a numerical advantage.