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Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
1814
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Posted - 2014.08.19 05:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:
The only 'counters' I came up with were:
1) Stay near the redline so you have a half chance of escaping.
2) Use cheaper tank (lower tier turret or militia hull) so when an ADS inevitably kills you it doesn't cost so much.
Obviously neither of those things are actually counters, they're basically just ways of accepting defeat.
Your right, those aren't counters and you didn't try hard enough to actually come up with a way to counter it.
As both a missile tanker and a python pilot I have a perspective from both views. What tanks and dropships both face when engaging each other. There are a few strategies that I and I'm sure many other tankers have developed to counter an ads above a tank, or in its blind spot.
1.) Fit a nitros on your tank. This is something that even a rookie tanker can think up. Tanks can pretty much stop on a dime and change direction, this can catch pilots unaware and line you up for a shot. By simply going backwards and forwards you can throw off and adses aim quite easily and allow your tank to regen. It also makes it a lot easier to find cover or retreat to the redline as a dropship has to accelerate pretty hard to keep up. Throw in some maneuvers and suddenly retreating isn't a problem anymore.
At its core, increase the speed and evasion of your tank.
2.) Draw them to turrets or ground troops. Large missile turrets actually provide great AA cover and throw off a dropships aim. If there is an AA turret or blaster heck even a rail you can buy yourself some valuable time to rep up as the dropship struggles to both evade and attack at the same time.
3.) Squad with another tanker. You have no idea how hard it can be to engage two tanks who are working together and cover each others backs. When I'm playing with my tanker buddy and we encounter an ads we set up in a defensive formation that either kills or forces a retreat from the dropship.
4.) (Personal favorite and my most recommended) fit two small rails to your tank. Have av hop inside, preferably a swarmer and a forger. Anytime a dropship gets in your blind spot he will have a nasty surprise waiting for him. Not only does this provide AA defense for your tank, but also helps in armor engagements, especially when you are out numbered. Using this tactic my crew and I destroyed 3 hostile tanks with our one. Furthermore small rails are excellent for eliminating infantry and give your tank amazing AI capabilities. Entire teams can be snuffed out if they are caught in the open, for tanks that lack good AI (eg rail and missile tanks) small rails become an additional offensive system.
So, AA and anti armor support that moves with you and also acts as AI when garrisoned.
Honestly if you don't have gunners your doing it wrong. Really tho make an effort, even a rookie tanker could figure out #1.
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Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
1815
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Posted - 2014.08.19 11:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:THUNDERGROOVE wrote:A very wise man named Aldin Kan would like to have a word with you, OP. I repeat, it is not possible to down a well built ADS unless they allow you to. Even if you hit with every shot the charge time is too long to get enough shots off before they're out of range. This is with IAFG, two damage mods, prof 5. Of course FGers like Aldin can get lots of ADS kills because (1) some ADS are not built well and (2) some pilots allow themselves to be killed. (1) applies a lot in pubs because pubs=scrubs. (2) applies a lot in PC because, in order to support the team, pilots have to be excessively aggressive (which they don't in pubs).
This is narrow minded, you are ignoring the other half of the equation. The skill and equipment of the aver. Avers with good skill and trigger discipline can down a max skill ads fit. It requires some experience from the aver to know that the first mover advantage is theirs and not to fire until the dropship is in a good position to strike. Hunting dropships also requires a bit of coordination to know where it is and what its doing.
Teamwork is the best way to get a dropship in one blow, a friend and I enjoy laving around with a rail turret, I use my cal heavy and an IAFG to gun. If we encounter an ads he positions the leave in a good spot, I hop out and start charging while he gets on the gun and opens up. My shot hits and by the time he starts running its already over.
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Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
1815
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Posted - 2014.08.19 12:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:
Yes, you can dedicate two men to countering a single ADS pilot, but you're then giving the reds a numerical advantage.
A single forge gunner can destroy an ads, but it takes longer and is less reliable. With the afore mentioned strategy, note that I said if we encounter an ads. That two man squad can take on tanks, other lavs, and infantry. They can cap points, deploy proxies or remotes, provide scans and recon and reinforce positions.
For a moment you are fighting 2 on one to effectively eliminate a highly dangerous threat before moving on to other tasks, tanks and other lavs also require two on one. One could also argue that fighting infantry in a two man lav (driver/gunner) is "giving the reds a numerical advantage" it would be a dumb argument but one could.
How is this any different than taking on a heavy? When I'm in my medium suit I need another person to help me take it down, or waste most of my ammo and nades and a good chunk of my HP.
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Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
1815
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 13:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:
No, they think 'this guy is stopping me from killing infantry and tanks, I want to kill him'. By trying to kill you, they let you kill them. The entire engagement after the first shot is at the discretion of the ADS pilot - if they wanted to stay alive more than they wanted to kill you they'd be at the flight ceiling already.
I have killed plenty of dropships too. The point is, I only killed the ADSes 1 on 1 that opted to stay within range after the first shot or made some other stupid mistake (e.g. engaging with hardeners on cooldown). So did you. Maybe it makes you feel good to think that it is your uberskill that downed the ADS. I'm more realistic, I know if I down an ADS on my own the FAA investigation would say 'pilot error'.
This was tolerable until you started guessing as to what a pilot thinks without having a clue as to how dropships operate or the challenges a pilot faces.
Dropship pilots are blind a good portion of the time, objects and infantry sometimes don't render until you are 10m away and sometimes don't render at all. Swarms are invisible, even when the swarmer is standing 40m in front of you firing volleys at you. When you are hit the hit marker indicates the opposite direction that you were actually hit making all kinds of confusion. Sometimes there is absolutely no indicator that you have been hit, forge hits, no knock back, no blue flare, your HP just drops, but then why would you check your HP if nothing has indicated that something painful just smacked you?
There is no trail to follow on a forge gun and swarms are invisible so there is ALOT of guess work involved in actually finding the threat and even if you hover over them there is a chance they won't render until an invisible swarm hits or you see the forge ball 2 inches from your face. This is partly why dropships disengage and hightail it out so often.
We have false/no information to actually go off of when encountering av. Most flying is guess work and gut feelings and many many runs to just find where the av is. Yet you make it sound like we can see you from the flight ceiling!
From your first sentence I can see how you think, from a dropship pilots perspective I would be thinking "damn a forge gun, can't provide cover for my squad, he's gonna be able to hit me from 600m and it could really hurt. I have find out where he is, too much of a threat to not know. Maybe if he is milita, or really bad, I can fight him, otherwise I need to know where I can take cover."
Do you honestly expect me, a seasoned dropship pilot with two years of flying experience, in my 700k isk dropship, to turn and attempt to look for a swarmer after being hit by an invisible volley that has taken down a third of my shields and knocked me all over, with another invisible volley on the way and no indication or visual confirmation of the threat(s?)?!
No I'm gonna get the fu*k out of there! You tell me you wouldn't do the same.
You know nothing of dropships, which explains why you have no idea how to fight them.
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Pvt Numnutz
Prophets of the Velocirapture
1815
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Posted - 2014.08.19 13:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
They were nerfed because of DS complaints, good ADS pilots didnt have a problem and if hill sniping is a problem then move back the redline 500m problem solved
Get your facts right
Yeah it was a problem. I was getting pretty sick of getting hit half way across the map by a tank that was 400m in the redline. I was pretty tiered of waiting for camping girls to move close enough to the edge of the redline that I might be able to make a strafe run. Oh and them shooting at me from 500m back to the flight ceiling while I was waiting for them to grow a pair.
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