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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
297
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Posted - 2014.08.18 12:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Played on my tank alt for a couple of hours. Think I'm beginning to understand how it is that tankers are frustrated even though they seem to be able to dominate the battlefield. AV and enemy tanks put up a decent fight but I managed to keep my tank in one piece (killed six tanks in one battle). I only died twice, both times to the same ADS pilot (in different battles). I couldn't really see how I could do anything differently - once they're above you (which is instantly) you're toast, hardeners just extend the agony of being pecked to death  The only 'counters' I came up with were: 1) Stay near the redline so you have a half chance of escaping. 2) Use cheaper tank (lower tier turret or militia hull) so when an ADS inevitably kills you it doesn't cost so much. Obviously neither of those things are actually counters, they're basically just ways of accepting defeat. If ADSes were a specific anti-tank weapon this wouldn't be so bad, but they terrorize infantry just as much. The only thing that is even slightly effective against an ADS is a forge gun, and even then the pilot can choose to escape if they wish. There is nothing (apart from another dropship) that is a true counter to an ADS, i.e. a mortal threat even to a competent pilot. And in any case a forge gunner is giving up a lot to offer that minor threat. They are sitting ducks for any other infantry. An ADS isn't a sitting duck for anything, it dominates almost everything and even has a good chance against its supposed counter. How to fix this? For that kind of power, an ADS should have SOME vulnerabilities. Obviously a reduction in ADS HP is one option, so AV can counter more effectively. An increase to large railgun range and railgun modifier power would be another possibility, so ADSes couldn't hover indefinitely without risk. At any rate, something should be done. I only have 200 kills on my tank alt and usually play as a scout, so I die very rarely to ADSes (low profile+cloak=ADS don't see me). So it doesn't really affect me personally. But it is a glaring imbalance in what is otherwise a pretty balanced game now.
I'm quoting this, but I'm buggered if I'm gonna read past the title...
I ads and tank... I use a missile tank, I can dupe a pilot into flying low enough by manuevering round objectives and doing the old hit reverse trick, aim up and BAM! you at least scare them off a bit, easy enough to escape to the redzone...
If you aren't on your own a top turret can chase them off... Or another tank if you set yourselves far enough apart and keep each other covered.
Now if you are however bitching about the ads bonus stacking which allows you to down anything in under a second... Well I'll ***** alongside you.
Edit-Well bugger me I read some of it >__< I hate myself... The only counter to a dropship is not just a fecking forge gun, infact swarms>>>>> Forge... Not to mention rammers, or calling in an rdv to hit them, or you know a tank, used with a brain.
You sir, are a bad tanker. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
297
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? No, not that it is relevant to the issue at hand.
No because having the view of both sides would just make your oppinoin a little one sided... Oh wait, nvm it's the other way round... ****.
Yes yes, I'll go now, my angry sarcasm is helping no one. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
297
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:OP you used to have a railgun that was able to hit harder, OH less, fire quicker and also have a 600m range until the lolcpm member in the thread got the railgun nerfed so he could hover in safety If it was upto him he would want the railgun removed so you would have 0 defence against an ADS https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1638265#post1638265
Except it's missiles that fire up, not rails... |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
297
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Right... While they're still in range... I must be forgetting the massive range of the damn small turret, because last time I flew out of range of a swarm, I wasn't able to shoot at the tank or anyone near it...
Swarms blow a dropship about and fire quickly... Forge at me and I'm gonna shoot you down before you get your 2nd or 3rd shot, not to mention I can just dodge a few shots so you have to reload, meaning I don't even have to leave the area.
Idiots who can't think crack me up : ) |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
298
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Derpty Derp wrote:Right... While they're still in range... I must be forgetting the massive range of the damn small turret, because last time I flew out of range of a swarm, I wasn't able to shoot at the tank or anyone near it...
Swarms blow a dropship about and fire quickly... Forge at me and I'm gonna shoot you down before you get your 2nd or 3rd shot, not to mention I can just dodge a few shots so you have to reload, meaning I don't even have to leave the area.
Idiots who can't think crack me up : ) i kill them in a methana.... you sir are just bad, there are ready built solutions to your problem in game, and your chosing not to use them. working as intended, not the games fault its yours. if i can do it with an LAV... you can do it in a ******* tank.
Dude you need to learn to read, we're argueing the same point, lol... I can kill a dropship with a tank, I can kill it with a forge & I can damn well kill it with another dropship. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
298
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:oi tank scrubs how about instead of using a scout suit to bail out of your tank before it explodes you get a heavy suit with a forgegun? If a ADS is bothering you just jump out and start shoting it with a forgegun. See i just solved your problem without thinking longer then 0.1 sec about it. Certain people seriously have the IQ of some 1 who lived in the stone age.
Uhm dude... Stone age people mastered fire... You're giving these guys too much credit. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
299
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 12:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Are you speced into the ADS at all? Do you fly? No, not that it is relevant to the issue at hand. Yes it is. Squad with me. Ill spawn you some ADS and film how indestructible you are.
If we could set up a test match somehow, I'd love you to film a small rail shooting an armour rep Madruga... Once the shields are down, they can't do anything... But yeah the only tanks are shield tanks, which get boned by them. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
306
|
Posted - 2014.08.18 18:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Large missile turrets are fine, 1 burst with no damage mod drops any ads if you land enough shots... if you don't land enough they have to **** right off...
Whatever you do, for this test, get a decent tanker for it... I hate to blow my own horn but if not me in the tank then Delboy, he's the only other person I've seen who can actually use them... These morons wont be happy until everything is broken and the game is just an FPS.
Why the **** is everyone bitching about an afterburning dropship getting away! The ship is not killing anything while it flys to the redzone... Can I complain about infantry simply on the basis that it 'could' fit extra shields or extra damage or extra speed? You want to down something that's flying away, ignoring anything that doesn't have a ******* afterburner, which will be unusable... Now fine if you want to balance ads based on afterburners, we better get them fitted as standard on everything.
Swarms are broken, they've never worked right, they were nerfed into oblivion for a reason, that reason being that the devs can't fecking program them not to be buggy as hell... 3 swarm shots will down most dropships, you don't even have to reload, you can't miss and they're mostly invisible and can be fired away from.
Now if a dropship comes overhead and your av isn't there yet, have you considered hiding? they can't fire around objects, that's what the swarms do, use your ******* brain! I don't come running straight at you with a militia AR and then complain I got shot, I duck behind cover, like someone who isn't ********. |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
312
|
Posted - 2014.08.19 14:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:
No, they think 'this guy is stopping me from killing infantry and tanks, I want to kill him'. By trying to kill you, they let you kill them. The entire engagement after the first shot is at the discretion of the ADS pilot - if they wanted to stay alive more than they wanted to kill you they'd be at the flight ceiling already.
I have killed plenty of dropships too. The point is, I only killed the ADSes 1 on 1 that opted to stay within range after the first shot or made some other stupid mistake (e.g. engaging with hardeners on cooldown). So did you. Maybe it makes you feel good to think that it is your uberskill that downed the ADS. I'm more realistic, I know if I down an ADS on my own the FAA investigation would say 'pilot error'.
This was tolerable until you started guessing as to what a pilot thinks without having a clue as to how dropships operate or the challenges a pilot faces. Dropship pilots are blind a good portion of the time, objects and infantry sometimes don't render until you are 10m away and sometimes don't render at all. Swarms are invisible, even when the swarmer is standing 40m in front of you firing volleys at you. When you are hit the hit marker indicates the opposite direction that you were actually hit making all kinds of confusion. Sometimes there is absolutely no indicator that you have been hit, forge hits, no knock back, no blue flare, your HP just drops, but then why would you check your HP if nothing has indicated that something painful just smacked you? There is no trail to follow on a forge gun and swarms are invisible so there is ALOT of guess work involved in actually finding the threat and even if you hover over them there is a chance they won't render until an invisible swarm hits or you see the forge ball 2 inches from your face. This is partly why dropships disengage and hightail it out so often. We have false/no information to actually go off of when encountering av. Most flying is guess work and gut feelings and many many runs to just find where the av is. Yet you make it sound like we can see you from the flight ceiling! From your first sentence I can see how you think, from a dropship pilots perspective I would be thinking "damn a forge gun, can't provide cover for my squad, he's gonna be able to hit me from 600m and it could really hurt. I have find out where he is, too much of a threat to not know. Maybe if he is milita, or really bad, I can fight him, otherwise I need to know where I can take cover." Do you honestly expect me, a seasoned dropship pilot with two years of flying experience, in my 700k isk dropship, to turn and attempt to look for a swarmer after being hit by an invisible volley that has taken down a third of my shields and knocked me all over, with another invisible volley on the way and no indication or visual confirmation of the threat(s?)?! No I'm gonna get the fu*k out of there! You tell me you wouldn't do the same. You know nothing of dropships, which explains why you have no idea how to fight them. This is why the forums are so pointless. I repeatedly said that ADS only die when they hang around after they get shot and that a competent pilot disappears at that point, but you seem to think im saying the opposite, that a good pilot hovers under fire so they can get killed  . And dont even get me started on the forge guns that you think are hitting you at 600m 
So you want to nerf the "good" pilots and not the rubbish ones... Can we do the same with ground troops, just nerf it it'll only effect the people that use it well & not the people who suck hard, because they'll still drop like flies anyway, once we have everything dropping in 1 shot it'll all be fair.
What about dropships with small blasters? it's near impossible to use, but fun... You want this gone.
Anything not stacking ads rof bonuses... You want them gone.
anything that isn't just flying past every 2 minutes firing 1 or 2 missiles, should be gone because missiles are too strong against infantry...
I can turn tail and run from you as a commando... I go behind a wall, you follow, I shoot you in the face with a shotgun... you gonna cry for nerfs on that because you can't just kill me without thinking before hand? |
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