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Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2521	Posted - 2014.07.16 17:36:00 - [1] - Quote the ADS is getting a price drop in the next hotfix. Is the sky going to be filled with OP players? Is the Afterburner OP? When AV meets ADS where lies the balance? Let me get the conversation started. Also... Vote Judge Judge for CPM 1 Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Everything Dies BIKINI BOTTOM BRIGADE 824	Posted - 2014.07.16 17:58:00 - [2] - Quote Remove the ridiculous bonuses to RoF on the ADS' and the problem will be greatly reduced. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof: Listen
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 55	Posted - 2014.07.16 18:00:00 - [3] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: the ADS is getting a price drop in the next hotfix. Is the sky going to be filled with OP players? Is the Afterburner OP? When AV meets ADS where lies the balance? Let me get the conversation started. Also... Vote Judge I already voted judge, #1 choice. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1335	Posted - 2014.07.16 18:03:00 - [4] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Remove the ridiculous bonuses to RoF on the ADS' and the problem will be greatly reduced. The RoF bonuses are the only thing making ADS worth a damn. Now a days, Python is great Anti Infantry, Incubus is great Anti Vehicle. My only issue is that the Incubus has no counter. While I am very happy the Incubus can finally fight back well vs a Python, the railgun is OP. Not only that guys, all it takes to push away a dropship is a proto swarmer or a proto forger. ADS is only ~op~ when you let it go uncontested. The ADS has many viable counters, therefore it is NOT OP. Not only that it is about time they got reduced in price. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
Thumb Green The Valyrian Guard 1128	Posted - 2014.07.16 18:07:00 - [5] - Quote I'm fairly intrigued that enemy chevrons aren't showing up at some of the ranges you were at from them; particularly when you flew over the hanger with the swarmer and forger on it. Is that how it is for a lot of players? Because I usually got the chevron at those ranges (and I usually play solo so no shared scans) but it has been a little bit since a flew, just really got back into playing the game. Can't say I'm all that surprised. I've been drinking and may be drunk.... probably like most dust players.
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 240	Posted - 2014.07.16 18:07:00 - [6] - Quote Some day, I'm going to figure out how you do some of those maneuvers. It's half Kung Fu / Half Drunken Master I've got the Drunken Master part down fine. As always Judge, good video.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 55	Posted - 2014.07.16 18:08:00 - [7] - Quote RayRay James wrote: Some day, I'm going to figure out how you do some of those maneuvers. It's half Kung Fu / Half Drunken Master I've got the Drunken Master part down fine. As always Judge, good video. Get high up nd practice? Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Duke Noobiam S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 113	Posted - 2014.07.16 18:10:00 - [8] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: the ADS is getting a price drop in the next hotfix. Is the sky going to be filled with OP players? Is the Afterburner OP? When AV meets ADS where lies the balance? Let me get the conversation started. Also... Vote Judge + 1 for video and +1 for vote Judge! How do you kill that which has no life?
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 240	Posted - 2014.07.16 18:11:00 - [9] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: I'm fairly intrigued that enemy chevrons aren't showing up at some of the ranges you were at from them; particularly when you flew over the hanger with the swarmer and forger on it. Is that how it is for a lot of players? Because I usually got the chevron at those ranges (and I usually play solo so no shared scans) but it has been a little bit since a flew, just really got back into playing the game. I swear, it varies from game to game. I have times where I can see the guy shooting at my ship but he has no chevron, others I get a chevron over a cloaked scout. Sometimes (as you could see) I have no idea you're there, that you shot at me, or hit me other than my ship lurching and my shields disappearing. ADS flying is a real skill, and it takes lots of practice to pull of some maneuvers. It's even harder to be combat effective if anyone who is running AV is paying attention. That being said, flying ADS is my second favorite thing to do in Dust. The first being a gal logi and keeping my team alive.
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 240	Posted - 2014.07.16 18:11:00 - [10] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: RayRay James wrote: Some day, I'm going to figure out how you do some of those maneuvers. It's half Kung Fu / Half Drunken Master I've got the Drunken Master part down fine. As always Judge, good video. Get high up nd practice? I have. and died doing so.

DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14605	Posted - 2014.07.16 18:20:00 - [11] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Remove the ridiculous bonuses to RoF on the ADS' and the problem will be greatly reduced. Thankfully this is a confirmed bug, but since it requires a client side patch to fix, it won't get fixed for some time. Unfortunately many pilots have grown so accustomed to this crutch that they defend it with everything they have. It's honestly just sad to see. The Future
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1335	Posted - 2014.07.16 18:30:00 - [12] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: the ADS is getting a price drop in the next hotfix. Is the sky going to be filled with OP players? Is the Afterburner OP? When AV meets ADS where lies the balance? Let me get the conversation started. Also... Vote Judge Amazing video as always Judge. I am glad I picked you for my Number 2 pick (twice I might add). Your point about lack of damage indicators, lack of awareness of where incoming fire is coming from etc.. is spot on. While I dont want ADS to receive any more raw power, the mechanics REALLY do need to be fixed. You know after watching videos on DUST and playing DUST I have to wonder, how good is this game to keep me playing through all of these horrendous bugs / lag etc... CCP need to do something. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1335	Posted - 2014.07.16 18:31:00 - [13] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Remove the ridiculous bonuses to RoF on the ADS' and the problem will be greatly reduced. Thankfully this is a confirmed bug, but since it requires a client side patch to fix, it won't get fixed for some time. Unfortunately many pilots have grown so accustomed to this crutch that they defend it with everything they have. It's honestly just sad to see. Stacking pilot skills is the only thing confirmed as a bug. The innate bonuses to the pilots RoF is working as intended. Let me tell you this too, any dropship fitting door weapons WILL have reduced defence. It WILL go down like a sack of potatoes if you put in the effort to kill it. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
taxi bastard jihad taxi co. 146	Posted - 2014.07.16 18:33:00 - [14] - Quote if dropships prices drop - then the AB needs to be nerfed so that they can't outrun swarms as soon as they switch it on
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2525	Posted - 2014.07.16 18:52:00 - [15] - Quote taxi bastard wrote: if dropships prices drop - then the AB needs to be nerfed so that they can't outrun swarms as soon as they switch it on If a dropship cannot outrun a swarm fired at it, then it serves no purpose. If fired; swarms hit. we no longer need swarm tracking or speed. Scouts can outrun heavies. Any infantry player can run round a corner. In the sky there are no corners. Are we not allowed to evade? If not then how do we survive? It's tank or run. Deny us the AB and as we cannot tank, as I show, and we cannot run, then Dropships become non viable. Judge for CPM 1 Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14605	Posted - 2014.07.16 19:10:00 - [16] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Remove the ridiculous bonuses to RoF on the ADS' and the problem will be greatly reduced. Thankfully this is a confirmed bug, but since it requires a client side patch to fix, it won't get fixed for some time. Unfortunately many pilots have grown so accustomed to this crutch that they defend it with everything they have. It's honestly just sad to see. Stacking pilot skills is the only thing confirmed as a bug. The innate bonuses to the pilots RoF is working as intended. Let me tell you this too, any dropship fitting door weapons WILL have reduced defence. It WILL go down like a sack of potatoes if you put in the effort to kill it. Yea, pushing past the intended 50% RoF is a bug. I just assumed that's what he was getting at. The problem is that small turrets cost too much to fit ever since they updated them. One design mistake doesn't justify the abuse of a bug is all. 100 RoF turrets are stupid lol, and lower the skill required for all parties involved. The Future
Mike De Luca STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME 189	Posted - 2014.07.16 19:36:00 - [17] - Quote If ADS spam happens, my IAFG will be going "OMNOMNOMNOM! Tasty wp!" what i think of when charging fg
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 960	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:00:00 - [18] - Quote I support the idea of lowering ADS costs and I would like collision damage to be changed as well. Judge made an excellent video with some good points about swarm speed and the AB. It was a selective video though about one aspect and in the end we need to ask, do more Pythons die to AV'ers or more AV'ers to Pythons. We can remove the factor of player skill by asking Judge, or anyone playing both roles, this question. I am confident that the pilots are winning these engagements the majority of the time. I hear pilots complain about "almost being killed" by AV all the time. AV never complains about "almost" being killed by pilots. The issue in my opinion is the difference in TTK between the two. Yes, the AV'er often has the first mover advantage but with a TTK approaching 15 seconds for the Python this means that even after being hit the pilot has 7-8 seconds to engage the AV'er and still leave a window for escape. With a 1-2 second TTK for the AV'er, this means the outcome is always in the pilot's hands, he either wins or escapes every time unless he chooses to overstay. So how do we make it so that the TTK is a little more even without tipping the scales entirely the other direction? How do we factor in the ridiculous regen the Python exhibits which negates all previous actions done by an AV'er in a matter of seconds? Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 960	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:04:00 - [19] - Quote On a side note, the video also demonstrated the stupidity of the jumping scouts. They can jump 8 ft. high and 20 meters long, being able to jump out of sight frame and close into shotgun distance with one leap. Because, that's why.
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 645	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:16:00 - [20] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: taxi bastard wrote: if dropships prices drop - then the AB needs to be nerfed so that they can't outrun swarms as soon as they switch it on If a dropship cannot outrun a swarm fired at it, then it serves no purpose. If fired; swarms hit. we no longer need swarm tracking or speed. Scouts can outrun heavies. Any infantry player can run round a corner. In the sky there are no corners. Are we not allowed to evade? If not then how do we survive? It's tank or run. Deny us the AB and as we cannot tank, as I show, and we cannot run, then Dropships become non viable. I disagree with the "no corners in the sky" argument. Swarms make a bee-line to whatever they are locked onto. There are plenty of buildings, towers and silos to fly behind or even near. This results in way more rockets missing than connecting. The only ADS pilots I can consistently take out solo with my Min Commando are the really dumb ones. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V

Mikey Ducati Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 340	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:22:00 - [21] - Quote You've been here long enough, you know whats going to happen.
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 134	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:24:00 - [22] - Quote Yay! price is gonna go down now i can make some noobs mad with and ADS missle launcher
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:31:00 - [23] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: I support the idea of lowering ADS costs and I would like collision damage to be changed as well. Judge made an excellent video with some good points about swarm speed and the AB. It was a selective video though about one aspect and in the end we need to ask, do more Pythons die to AV'ers or more AV'ers to Pythons. We can remove the factor of player skill by asking Judge, or anyone playing both roles, this question. I am confident that the pilots are winning these engagements the majority of the time. I hear pilots complain about "almost being killed" by AV all the time. AV never complains about "almost" being killed by pilots. The issue in my opinion is the difference in TTK between the two. Yes, the AV'er often has the first mover advantage but with a TTK approaching 15 seconds for the Python this means that even after being hit the pilot has 7-8 seconds to engage the AV'er and still leave a window for escape. With a 1-2 second TTK for the AV'er, this means the outcome is always in the pilot's hands, he either wins or escapes every time unless he chooses to overstay. So how do we make it so that the TTK is a little more even without tipping the scales entirely the other direction? How do we factor in the ridiculous regen the Python exhibits which negates all previous actions done by an AV'er in a matter of seconds? You cant factor out a players skill. A good forger will take me out a bad one wont, simple so get your skill up not you but anyone complaining about dropships being op.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:35:00 - [24] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Remove the ridiculous bonuses to RoF on the ADS' and the problem will be greatly reduced. Thankfully this is a confirmed bug, but since it requires a client side patch to fix, it won't get fixed for some time. Unfortunately many pilots have grown so accustomed to this crutch that they defend it with everything they have. It's honestly just sad to see. I think the bug is just fine, i dont see it getting abused.Without the rof why even make gunner dropships, you have a compromised fit with less hp, why not run 2 dropships with full hp.
Not Jason Pearson 17	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:38:00 - [25] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Also... Vote Judge If you become CPM I think I will be done here, the community is the only reason I continue with DUST, and you're a bad :P (It's not that I dislike you, I just don't think you have enough love in your heart for everybody, especially Tanks.) On topic, let's not do anything, alright? Seriously, no jumping to conclusions immediately because it means that the balance gets completely ****** up. One thing at a time, price reduction, if usage goes vastly up, look at which ships are being bought, I mean what if it's a shitload of Pythons instead of Incubi (Incubi?). Does CCP have data to see how many kills these ships rake in, or what their ISK gain and loss is? I mean usage could actually go up, but what if that's because more people are trying them out while they're like this and cheap? So what I'm saying is wait for a week or two before any of these threads need to be taken seriously. Not King of the Forums
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5667	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:47:00 - [26] - Quote I'm all for opening up an aerial front. Makes things interesting. pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 677	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:49:00 - [27] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Remove the ridiculous bonuses to RoF on the ADS' and the problem will be greatly reduced. That has almost nothing to do with this video. I'd recommend you watch it before commenting, it's quite good. Purchase Aurum Today!
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3067	Posted - 2014.07.16 22:13:00 - [28] - Quote As a pilot myself I concur on the first hit rule. There is a lot you have to take into account and very little information to go off. My Incubus is fitted with 2x Light Armour Plate 1x Heavy Armour Repairer 1x Light Shield Booster Now, my ship can typically take 4 SL shots at I think as high as advanced level, with proficiency bonus. Provided I run as soon as I take the first shot I can be out comfortably woth nothing mlre than my tail between my legs. However their are also multiple occasions where I have taken 5 volleys and still survived because the Swarms take so long to catch up to me I have already repped back half the damge I have taken, as both an AVer and Dropship pilot, I believe this is mildly unfair, I have overstayed my welcome and should rightly pay the price. But my uncanny ability to fly in straight line, diagonally towards my redline has saved me. Then again in different circumstances I have been sliding across the sky like an incredibly manly ballerina and swarms have turned, litteraly on a 50 pencd piece to chase me down like a rabid dog. Swarms need Gùå Top Speed boost Gùå Intial Acceleration boost but they also need Gùå Longer unguided duration Gùå Wider Turning Circle Other that I concurr that dropshipping would be a more pleasant experience if I could tell who just shot insteadbof fumbling around like a drunken huntsman. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
alten hilt Legio DXIV 373	Posted - 2014.07.16 22:19:00 - [29] - Quote I am a Proto Plasma Cannoneer! Fear Me!!! Surviving Dust: Tutorial Series
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14613	Posted - 2014.07.16 22:40:00 - [30] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Remove the ridiculous bonuses to RoF on the ADS' and the problem will be greatly reduced. Thankfully this is a confirmed bug, but since it requires a client side patch to fix, it won't get fixed for some time. Unfortunately many pilots have grown so accustomed to this crutch that they defend it with everything they have. It's honestly just sad to see. I think the bug is just fine, i dont see it getting abused.Without the rof why even make gunner dropships, you have a compromised fit with less hp, why not run 2 dropships with full hp. The difference in HP is about a single hit from some AV, and other AV the difference doesn't even exist. You're going down in the same amount of hits regardless. Also, you only need a single side gunner to abuse the bug, not two. As I've stated countless times, peoples beef is with small turrets having obnoxious fitting requirements. It's just that bads have grown so accustomed to having bugged turrets that it's now a staple of their day to day, and they can't imagine life any other way. The Future

Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 961	Posted - 2014.07.16 23:11:00 - [31] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: I support the idea of lowering ADS costs and I would like collision damage to be changed as well. Judge made an excellent video with some good points about swarm speed and the AB. It was a selective video though about one aspect and in the end we need to ask, do more Pythons die to AV'ers or more AV'ers to Pythons. We can remove the factor of player skill by asking Judge, or anyone playing both roles, this question. I am confident that the pilots are winning these engagements the majority of the time. I hear pilots complain about "almost being killed" by AV all the time. AV never complains about "almost" being killed by pilots. The issue in my opinion is the difference in TTK between the two. Yes, the AV'er often has the first mover advantage but with a TTK approaching 15 seconds for the Python this means that even after being hit the pilot has 7-8 seconds to engage the AV'er and still leave a window for escape. With a 1-2 second TTK for the AV'er, this means the outcome is always in the pilot's hands, he either wins or escapes every time unless he chooses to overstay. So how do we make it so that the TTK is a little more even without tipping the scales entirely the other direction? How do we factor in the ridiculous regen the Python exhibits which negates all previous actions done by an AV'er in a matter of seconds? You cant factor out a players skill. A good forger will take me out a bad one wont, simple so get your skill up not you but anyone complaining about dropships being op. I'm not sure you understood my post. If Player A plays using a Python half the time and using AV half the time, in which does he die more often? In which does he kill more often? If money was on the line and they played against themselves would they choose to be a pilot or an AV'er? We have players that do both, so skill isn't the differentiating factor for them. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 961	Posted - 2014.07.16 23:16:00 - [32] - Quote I'll state it again though, if no changes are made to the Python besides cost I probably won't complain. Let's see if more people fly them and if it is the ship or the pilots who make it so hard to kill them. Because, that's why.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3067	Posted - 2014.07.16 23:20:00 - [33] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: I support the idea of lowering ADS costs and I would like collision damage to be changed as well. Judge made an excellent video with some good points about swarm speed and the AB. It was a selective video though about one aspect and in the end we need to ask, do more Pythons die to AV'ers or more AV'ers to Pythons. We can remove the factor of player skill by asking Judge, or anyone playing both roles, this question. I am confident that the pilots are winning these engagements the majority of the time. I hear pilots complain about "almost being killed" by AV all the time. AV never complains about "almost" being killed by pilots. The issue in my opinion is the difference in TTK between the two. Yes, the AV'er often has the first mover advantage but with a TTK approaching 15 seconds for the Python this means that even after being hit the pilot has 7-8 seconds to engage the AV'er and still leave a window for escape. With a 1-2 second TTK for the AV'er, this means the outcome is always in the pilot's hands, he either wins or escapes every time unless he chooses to overstay. So how do we make it so that the TTK is a little more even without tipping the scales entirely the other direction? How do we factor in the ridiculous regen the Python exhibits which negates all previous actions done by an AV'er in a matter of seconds? You cant factor out a players skill. A good forger will take me out a bad one wont, simple so get your skill up not you but anyone complaining about dropships being op. I'm not sure you understood my post. If Player A plays using a Python half the time and using AV half the time, in which does he die more often? In which does he kill more often? If money was on the line and they played against themselves would they choose to be a pilot or an AV'er? We have players that do both, so skill isn't the differentiating factor for them. Ahem if I may wager in here. I am a Incubus pilot, with no more than 3 levels in to armour fitting optimazation and the level required to unlock an Incubus. I am also a AVer with an ADV swarm launcher, lvl 5 profciency and 2x Std dmg mods, I also have AV grenades lvl 3 and remote explosives lvl 5. I would put money on the Incubus flying me everytime. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 502	Posted - 2014.07.16 23:39:00 - [34] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: taxi bastard wrote: if dropships prices drop - then the AB needs to be nerfed so that they can't outrun swarms as soon as they switch it on If a dropship cannot outrun a swarm fired at it, then it serves no purpose. If fired; swarms hit. we no longer need swarm tracking or speed. Scouts can outrun heavies. Any infantry player can run round a corner. In the sky there are no corners. Are we not allowed to evade? If not then how do we survive? It's tank or run. Deny us the AB and as we cannot tank, as I show, and we cannot run, then Dropships become non viable. You shouldn't be able to insta-accelerate outside their range, however, which I suspect is what happens. In the same way that Fuel Injectors need looking at for HAVs, AB need some attention. If nothing else, their cooldown times should be altered a little. Thing is always active. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Miokai Zahou The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 337	Posted - 2014.07.17 00:16:00 - [35] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: taxi bastard wrote: if dropships prices drop - then the AB needs to be nerfed so that they can't outrun swarms as soon as they switch it on If a dropship cannot outrun a swarm fired at it, then it serves no purpose. If fired; swarms hit. we no longer need swarm tracking or speed. Scouts can outrun heavies. Any infantry player can run round a corner. In the sky there are no corners. Are we not allowed to evade? If not then how do we survive? It's tank or run. Deny us the AB and as we cannot tank, as I show, and we cannot run, then Dropships become non viable. You shouldn't be able to insta-accelerate outside their range, however, which I suspect is what happens. In the same way that Fuel Injectors need looking at for HAVs, AB need some attention. If nothing else, their cooldown times should be altered a little. Thing is always active. Well then to make it fair ADS will need a significant base HP buff to tanking and increasing in the slots and cpu/pg if you want us to get hit more often to the silly little swarms. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
IVIaster LUKE Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn 620	Posted - 2014.07.17 00:38:00 - [36] - Quote Mikey Ducati wrote: You've been here long enough, you know whats going to happen. We will blacken the sky with our arrows...I mean Dropships. Battle Academy? laughs No. Never did it. Wasn't in the game when I started. Corp Battles FTW! \o/
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2492	Posted - 2014.07.17 00:50:00 - [37] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: taxi bastard wrote: if dropships prices drop - then the AB needs to be nerfed so that they can't outrun swarms as soon as they switch it on If a dropship cannot outrun a swarm fired at it, then it serves no purpose. If fired; swarms hit. we no longer need swarm tracking or speed. Scouts can outrun heavies. Any infantry player can run round a corner. In the sky there are no corners. Are we not allowed to evade? If not then how do we survive? It's tank or run. Deny us the AB and as we cannot tank, as I show, and we cannot run, then Dropships become non viable. Perhaps a nerf to AB cool down would suffice if you would like to retain that ability then sacrifice that ridiculously fast cool down, I mean it's like 10 seconds even if you dive back down almost instantly after use it's still pretty much cooled down by the time you back to killing. For such a valuable module it has such minimal fitting costs and cool down. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
Mike De Luca STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME 189	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:00:00 - [38] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: taxi bastard wrote: if dropships prices drop - then the AB needs to be nerfed so that they can't outrun swarms as soon as they switch it on If a dropship cannot outrun a swarm fired at it, then it serves no purpose. If fired; swarms hit. we no longer need swarm tracking or speed. Scouts can outrun heavies. Any infantry player can run round a corner. In the sky there are no corners. Are we not allowed to evade? If not then how do we survive? It's tank or run. Deny us the AB and as we cannot tank, as I show, and we cannot run, then Dropships become non viable. Perhaps a nerf to AB cool down would suffice if you would like to retain that ability then sacrifice that ridiculously fast cool down, I mean it's like 10 seconds even if you dive back down almost instantly after use it's still pretty much cooled down by the time you back to killing. For such a valuable module it has such minimal fitting costs and cool down. All raising its cooldown will most likely do is just have an ads sitting at the ceiling longer waiting for it to be usable again.... what i think of when charging fg
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 865	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:25:00 - [39] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: I'm fairly intrigued that enemy chevrons aren't showing up at some of the ranges you were at from them; particularly when you flew over the hanger with the swarmer and forger on it. Is that how it is for a lot of players? Because I usually got the chevron at those ranges (and I usually play solo so no shared scans) but it has been a little bit since a flew, just really got back into playing the game. You have to fly very low to get things to show up on passive ADS scans. Thankfully there are ways around this if you're in a squad willing and able to scan for you. Medium frame EHP is not medium
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 865	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:36:00 - [40] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Remove the ridiculous bonuses to RoF on the ADS' and the problem will be greatly reduced. Thankfully this is a confirmed bug, but since it requires a client side patch to fix, it won't get fixed for some time. Unfortunately many pilots have grown so accustomed to this crutch that they defend it with everything they have. It's honestly just sad to see. Rate of fire bonus isn't a bug, stacking rate of fire bonuses from multiple players is. Medium frame EHP is not medium

DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14621	Posted - 2014.07.17 02:00:00 - [41] - Quote medomai grey wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Remove the ridiculous bonuses to RoF on the ADS' and the problem will be greatly reduced. Thankfully this is a confirmed bug, but since it requires a client side patch to fix, it won't get fixed for some time. Unfortunately many pilots have grown so accustomed to this crutch that they defend it with everything they have. It's honestly just sad to see. Rate of fire bonus isn't a bug, stacking rate of fire bonuses from multiple players is. I'm well aware, I assumed he was referring to the bug. The Future
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2014.07.17 03:42:00 - [42] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: I support the idea of lowering ADS costs and I would like collision damage to be changed as well. Judge made an excellent video with some good points about swarm speed and the AB. It was a selective video though about one aspect and in the end we need to ask, do more Pythons die to AV'ers or more AV'ers to Pythons. We can remove the factor of player skill by asking Judge, or anyone playing both roles, this question. I am confident that the pilots are winning these engagements the majority of the time. I hear pilots complain about "almost being killed" by AV all the time. AV never complains about "almost" being killed by pilots. The issue in my opinion is the difference in TTK between the two. Yes, the AV'er often has the first mover advantage but with a TTK approaching 15 seconds for the Python this means that even after being hit the pilot has 7-8 seconds to engage the AV'er and still leave a window for escape. With a 1-2 second TTK for the AV'er, this means the outcome is always in the pilot's hands, he either wins or escapes every time unless he chooses to overstay. So how do we make it so that the TTK is a little more even without tipping the scales entirely the other direction? How do we factor in the ridiculous regen the Python exhibits which negates all previous actions done by an AV'er in a matter of seconds? You cant factor out a players skill. A good forger will take me out a bad one wont, simple so get your skill up not you but anyone complaining about dropships being op. I'm not sure you understood my post. If Player A plays using a Python half the time and using AV half the time, in which does he die more often? In which does he kill more often? If money was on the line and they played against themselves would they choose to be a pilot or an AV'er? We have players that do both, so skill isn't the differentiating factor for them. Ofcourse you die more in av than in a dropship otherwise there wouldnt be any dropshippers. A good aver might die 2-3 times but depends. If i were to die that much a match i would be out at least a mil. Dropships are balanced just leave it alone.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2014.07.17 03:53:00 - [43] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Remove the ridiculous bonuses to RoF on the ADS' and the problem will be greatly reduced. Thankfully this is a confirmed bug, but since it requires a client side patch to fix, it won't get fixed for some time. Unfortunately many pilots have grown so accustomed to this crutch that they defend it with everything they have. It's honestly just sad to see. I think the bug is just fine, i dont see it getting abused.Without the rof why even make gunner dropships, you have a compromised fit with less hp, why not run 2 dropships with full hp. The difference in HP is about a single hit from some AV, and other AV the difference doesn't even exist. You're going down in the same amount of hits regardless. Also, you only need a single side gunner to abuse the bug, not two. As I've stated countless times, peoples beef is with small turrets having obnoxious fitting requirements. It's just that bads have grown so accustomed to having bugged turrets that it's now a staple of their day to day, and they can't imagine life any other way. When shot down in 3 hits an extra hit is very significant.I rarely see people running gunner dropships even with this bug.There will be even less if you take it away.
DELB0Y 12	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:05:00 - [44] - Quote Nice vid as always Judge. You give up our position one more time, I'll bleed you, real quiet, and leave you here. Got that?
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 67	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:37:00 - [45] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Remove the ridiculous bonuses to RoF on the ADS' and the problem will be greatly reduced. Thankfully this is a confirmed bug, but since it requires a client side patch to fix, it won't get fixed for some time. Unfortunately many pilots have grown so accustomed to this crutch that they defend it with everything they have. It's honestly just sad to see. the ridiculous rot of fire is not a bug but a passive skill you get for leveling up the ADS of your choice......cal get bonus to missle ROF and gal get it to hybrid turrets......its not the RoF thats the problem...its the after burners that are OP.....use to get out of range...and by the time your fully healed the after burner is ready to go again.....so as soon as they take any damage they fly away....the biggest problem for an ADS is the collision damage to them.....tap them with a MLT DS and watch them go down in flames....
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3072	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:12:00 - [46] - Quote 843-Vika wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Remove the ridiculous bonuses to RoF on the ADS' and the problem will be greatly reduced. Thankfully this is a confirmed bug, but since it requires a client side patch to fix, it won't get fixed for some time. Unfortunately many pilots have grown so accustomed to this crutch that they defend it with everything they have. It's honestly just sad to see. the ridiculous rot of fire is not a bug but a passive skill you get for leveling up the ADS of your choice......cal get bonus to missle ROF and gal get it to hybrid turrets......its not the RoF thats the problem...its the after burners that are OP.....use to get out of range...and by the time your fully healed the after burner is ready to go again.....so as soon as they take any damage they fly away....the biggest problem for an ADS is the collision damage to them.....tap them with a MLT DS and watch them go down in flames.... I find your lack of understanding, disturbing. Yes you do indeed get a passive skill that makes your weapons fire faster. But what you aren't understanding is that by having and 2 gunners skilled into the dropship you can achieve a staggering 150% ROF this is a bug and turns an ADS into a fully fledged gunship, even the blaster is powerful when it gets 150% extra ROF. If you had watched judges video, he explains quite clearly why regularly run, what do you expect us to do, sit their amd take it? If you are using AV you need to be prepared to run it all match, it's not something you keep in your fittings so you can pop a tank and go back to being infantry again. AV is a dedicated role, that requires dedicated players to do it, trust me if I could make a tank run back to his redline with JUST ONE MAGAZINE of Swarm Launcher, I would be overjoyed, in fact I'd probably do a merry little jig on the tanks wreckage. AV neutralises Vehicles that doesn't mean they should ALWAYS kill, a good pilot/driver knows when to leave and when to stay. If you don't like the idea of protecting your team from the tyranny of vehicles, quite potentially ALL MATCH, I suggest you put down that swarm launcher and go back to your pea shooter rifles. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1346	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:16:00 - [47] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: the ADS is getting a price drop in the next hotfix. Is the sky going to be filled with OP players? Is the Afterburner OP? When AV meets ADS where lies the balance? I was ready to dislike the video because I fly. As many of the forums posts regarding dropships are AV whiners that want the kill and not just to control the airspace. However, it was very well done. Although I would have preferred your email to state your conclusion. You provided some good information. Although I have no idea why the sky would be filled will OP players because the dropship price is finally going to be adjusted several months after they had stated it was too high. That just doesn't make sense to me. Of course reason and dust have very little in common. A simple mini-map indicator, like planetside 2 does in its kills screen, would be very useful and not intensive. However that would take client side work and with the only changes being in the database server side it is unlikely. Considering that the basic hit marker rarely shows the first hit highly unlikely is a better description. No fixes to draw distance or much of anything else because we have pretty grass that texture pops as we move along. Grass is more important in dust than seeing the opposition. I had thought that the AV crowd would be satisfied with getting multiple +75 WP for hitting dropships but kills are the only thing that matters to many of the dust players. As mentioned they control the airspace. The actions of the ADS and other dropships are limited by the intensity of the AV response. They have a two hit advantage as there is no indication of what hit you, where it came from or if they are in a position to take the deadly third volley. I lose ADS way too often. Normally it is because two AV hit me at the same time. While my AB might let me escape if one is shooting two having that first hit undetectable advantage that can take everything away before you even know you are being targeted. This entire situation is very frustrating as the constant nerfing of tank weapons has made tanking boring, for me. Infantry that rarely has to worry about getting killed by a tank just seems wrong to me. And so it goes.
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 67	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:35:00 - [48] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: But what you aren't understanding is that by having and 2 gunners skilled into the dropship you can achieve a staggering 150% ROF this is a bug and turns an ADS into a fully fledged gunship, even the blaster is powerful when it gets 150% extra ROF. I can see that your one of the newer players and dont understand the math behind how it works.....it's not 50%+50%+50%= 150%...it's x +50% = x then you add 50% to the end result and so forth ( EVE .....so its actually worst then you think.....and tbh as far as i know the stack does not count on the ADS/tank its self for those passive skills....it only work for the turrets that people use, where their turret skills stack on top of your for boosted small turret effects. When we had the vayu tanks if 2 tankers hopped into it the passive bonus from the vayu skill did not stack, so why would it stack for an ads... Monkey MAC wrote: If you had watched judges video, he explains quite clearly why regularly run, what do you expect us to do, sit their amd take it? If you are using AV you need to be prepared to run it all match, it's not something you keep in your fittings so you can pop a tank and go back to being infantry again. I watched his video and most of it was his explain/QQ about how as an ADS pilot you cant see AV players because of rendering issues, not saying he is wrong. You can run AV and still kill infantry, its called commando suits. Run any light weapon with swarms as your second....instant multitasking suit fitting lol
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2533	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:57:00 - [49] - Quote 843-Vika wrote: I watched his video and most of it was his explain/QQ about how as an ADS pilot you cant see AV players because of rendering issues, not saying he is wrong. You say I QQ, unfairly I think. Do you think the issues I showed and the problems they cause are really a QQ, or a legitimate and fair representation of what actually happens? Judge for CPM 1 Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 67	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:06:00 - [50] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: 843-Vika wrote: I watched his video and most of it was his explain/QQ about how as an ADS pilot you cant see AV players because of rendering issues, not saying he is wrong. You say I QQ, unfairly I think. Do you think the issues I showed and the problems they cause are really a QQ, or a legitimate and fair representation of what actually happens? I didn't say it was a total QQ and i also said that i agree with you on those problems....that and the fact that a militia DS can just bump an ADS and kill it is the reason that i stopped using them, also because the cost was just way to high on them. You di explain everything in a very elegant way but all in all it was still a QQ in a way

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2533	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:16:00 - [51] - Quote I don't think there was any QQ. My point was that we need to consider the render issues and the other factors like AB speed when we look at balance. I didn't say buff ADS, or nerf AV. I just tried to show AV the issues we face. I think it is a problem that a forge hits me and I get no hit indicator, no projectile.. nothing. Is that a QQ? I think not. Judge for CPM 1 Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 2052	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:34:00 - [52] - Quote The thing about AVers wanting the kill: this game is ENTIRELY about isk destruction. If you could run a role that, when you play it, you are nearly guaranteed to never die, but instead, 'be denied WP', would that be 'balanced'? Imagine a Logi, that, when fit as a logi, and as long as his Rep Tool is out, is granted +100% resistances, and never dies? Sure, he's 'not a threat' but his very existence is a threat multiplier. Tl:dr- Av 'complains' about not getting kills, because bad tankers(and to a lesser extent, ADSers) can be granted invulnerability as long as they only engage when mods are up. Seeing as the entire EVE universe relies on ISK destruction as a performance metric, AV feels shafted when they can only deny a vehicle their free treats, and that killing them is either impossible, or requiring an INSTAWTFBLAP from multiple players syncing together. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 193	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:37:00 - [53] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: the ADS is getting a price drop in the next hotfix. Is the sky going to be filled with OP players? Is the Afterburner OP? When AV meets ADS where lies the balance? Let me get the conversation started. Also... Vote Judge Find out next time on DRAGONBALLZ! ...... But seriously, these are good questions, and in classic CCP fashion we will be victimized to no end for months to find out?! "Anybody order chaos?"
Guiltless D667 51	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:41:00 - [54] - Quote How about on coming AV projectile tracking on your radar for on coming misses/rails and a some sound alerting your taking fire to indicate youve been damage? Simple yet effective. CCP might want to expand the radar for dropships as well compared to infantry if it isn't already. A Strange Game.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2534	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:46:00 - [55] - Quote Lynn. Your reply has nothing at all to do with the video, the topic or the discussion so far. Judge for CPM 1 Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2534	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:48:00 - [56] - Quote Guiltless D667 wrote: How about on coming AV projectile tracking on your radar for on coming misses/rails and a some sound alerting your taking fire to indicate youve been damage? Simple yet effective. CCP might want to expand the radar for dropships as well compared to infantry if it isn't already. I'm not sure we can so this sort of thing within the current hotfix model. Better passive sacs would be a start. The would even the field a bit. I see you. You see me.. then we can decide on balance and make it fun for all. Judge for CPM 1 Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 68	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:49:00 - [57] - Quote a simple fix to the AV you can't see because of rendering is use a scanner. it works for infantry when they use it and i use a militia DS with a militia scanner when i start the match as a troop transport and anti drop ship move and i can see everything just fine. Well it works for same kind of place he was points out in the video, close range AV. AV that sits at the max range are harder to detect but that's a different story
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2151	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:50:00 - [58] - Quote I don't mind ADS running anymore now that damaging vehicles once more gives WP, you can run and I can keep my +75 or 150WP. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3072	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:18:00 - [59] - Quote 843-Vika wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: But what you aren't understanding is that by having and 2 gunners skilled into the dropship you can achieve a staggering 150% ROF this is a bug and turns an ADS into a fully fledged gunship, even the blaster is powerful when it gets 150% extra ROF. I can see that your one of the newer players and dont understand the math behind how it works.....it's not 50%+50%+50%= 150%...it's x +50% = x then you add 50% to the end result and so forth ( EVE .....so its actually worst then you think.....and tbh as far as i know the stack does not count on the ADS/tank its self for those passive skills....it only work for the turrets that people use, where their turret skills stack on top of your for boosted small turret effects. (So if you know exactly how it works AND it has been confirmed by the devs themselves, why are you trying to fob it off as nothing, it happens they have said as much. Edit: Aah, all I did was miss a + sign, easy mistake to make on a tablet.) When we had the vayu tanks if 2 tankers hopped into it the passive bonus from the vayu skill did not stack, so why would it stack for an ads... (Once again the devs have said it happens and that it is a bug that will require a fix.) Monkey MAC wrote: If you had watched judges video, he explains quite clearly why regularly run, what do you expect us to do, sit their amd take it? If you are using AV you need to be prepared to run it all match, it's not something you keep in your fittings so you can pop a tank and go back to being infantry again. I watched his video and most of it was his explain/QQ about how as an ADS pilot you cant see AV players because of rendering issues, not saying he is wrong. You can run AV and still kill infantry, its called commando suits. Run any light weapon with swarms as your second....instant multitasking suit fitting lol (Do you know why? He made such a point of it? Because it's a big point, once again he explains the logic we use very well. We can't see who so we leave. Once again your problem which seems to be not getting the kill, it's called forethought and planning. Like an infantry player, if we don't like the engagement, we leave just like you do. So why are you complaining, if you can run commandos, do so.) Your not helping yourself Gùå You show that skill stacking is what I said it to be +150% ROF Gûá Then said it doesn't happen despite it being confirmed as bug in the Hotfix update Gùå You write of the reason we usually retreat as QQ Gûá Then QQ that you can't kill people cause they fly away. Gùå You know you can run a hybrid suit Gûá But you still complain you spend most of your time AVing They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Guiltless D667 51	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:18:00 - [60] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Guiltless D667 wrote: How about on coming AV projectile tracking on your radar for on coming misses/rails and a some sound alerting your taking fire to indicate youve been damage? Simple yet effective. CCP might want to expand the radar for dropships as well compared to infantry if it isn't already. I'm not sure we can do this sort of thing within the current hotfix model. Better passive scans would be a start. They would even the field a bit. I see you. You see me.. then we can decide on balance and make it fun for all. That would work,but it has to be made in a way where it doesn't just give dropships full view all troop movements as it does active scanner. It's hard to gauge solutions when you dont know what CCP can do within constraints without going too far out. How about making AV icon on radar "blip" a different color indicating they using AV to engage you(if slowly fades as time goes on)?also increased scanner range. The answer is in the radar. A Strange Game.

Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 2052	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:20:00 - [61] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Lynn. Your reply has nothing at all to do with the video, the topic or the discussion so far. Someone in this theead stated that Av was complaining they weren't getting enough kills(i don't share this view) However, i was also stating my displeasure with an ADS who idly camps a rooftop, and then leaving the moment he takes damage(not the same as leaving upon hearing it) is nearly impossible to kill. If the only 'weakness' to a dropship is their inability to tank, and thus immediately leave, then what good does the 'isk destruction' metric do? I agree rendering or chevron dependability need to improve, however saying that ADS is 'incredibly weak' or that they are rendered 'unusable' when 1 aver appears, is a lie. That Swarm Launcher-er has only 175m to touch you, but he needs to be within 100 to reliably hit you with enough volleys to 'nearly' kill you. You have the entire map at your disposal, at literally any second of the game. If that Aver is posing a problem to you(rendering or not) you aren't obliged to kill him. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 2052	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:25:00 - [62] - Quote Also, that a scout who's seen, and fired upon, is dead(at least, minjas/ewar scouts) how fair would it be if a scout could evade damage to the point that, once seen, they only need activate their 'Kincat Stimulant' and they now run at 25m/s? I understand a Dropship's only defense against AV is to either kill them or nullify the damage(buildings/distance) however, being able to instantly just GTFO button instantly away from a point is semi-uncalled for. What if: an ADS recieved a Top Speed boost,(as currently) but no Accel?(spitballin here) the current problem AV encounters against an ADS is they loiter about, spitting 1-2hko missiles about all willy-nilly, and then, AFTER their counter appears, they just teleport away until the threat gives up or is engulfed by the approaching masses. Tell me 'No.' Or whatever, but it's just me, a lowly AV/minja person who's speaking displeasure, and partial disagreement to your claims. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 1889	Posted - 2014.07.17 22:36:00 - [63] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: snip Swarms need Gùå Top Speed boost Gùå Intial Acceleration boost but they also need Gùå Longer unguided duration Gùå Wider Turning Circle Other that I concurr that dropshipping would be a more pleasant experience if I could tell who just shot insteadbof fumbling around like a drunken huntsman. I miss the days of a door gunner calling out a missile launch and then trying to out-bank them. Doing coordinated teamwork on Dropships was fun back in Closed Beta. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3076	Posted - 2014.07.17 23:30:00 - [64] - Quote 843-Vika wrote: a simple fix to the AV you can't see because of rendering is use a scanner. it works for infantry when they use it and i use a militia DS with a militia scanner when i start the match as a troop transport and anti drop ship move and i can see everything just fine. Well it works for same kind of place he was points out in the video, close range AV. AV that sits at the max range are harder to detect but that's a different story My Incubus has 1 High slot this can be filled with either/or Scanner Has a 100m range well with in Swarm Launcher Radius, doesn't benefit me since I can still see him if I look at him Afterburner Let's get the hell out of dodge, as soon as possible because that Swarm Launcer guy already has 3 volleys in the air. Booster Let's my armour rep back slightly before the next volley, dependent upon the situation better than an afterbuner Extender More shields, only good if I actually get much use out of my shields (I don't, they are a shield gate, a spider sense if you will) Shield Hardener Because hardening 950 shields at the expense of my armour tank is a great idea. So only 2 of these modules actualy benefit me. The scanner only scans at 100m, that's a whole 39,000 square meters where you can shoot me and I still can't tell where you are. What benifit is that to me? They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
B145PH3M3R The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 20	Posted - 2014.07.18 00:12:00 - [65] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: 843-Vika wrote: a simple fix to the AV you can't see because of rendering is use a scanner. it works for infantry when they use it and i use a militia DS with a militia scanner when i start the match as a troop transport and anti drop ship move and i can see everything just fine. Well it works for same kind of place he was points out in the video, close range AV. AV that sits at the max range are harder to detect but that's a different story My Incubus has 1 High slot this can be filled with either/or Scanner Has a 100m range well with in Swarm Launcher Radius, doesn't benefit me since I can still see him if I look at him Afterburner Let's get the hell out of dodge, as soon as possible because that Swarm Launcer guy already has 3 volleys in the air. Booster Let's my armour rep back slightly before the next volley, dependent upon the situation better than an afterbuner Extender More shields, only good if I actually get much use out of my shields (I don't, they are a shield gate, a spider sense if you will) Shield Hardener Because hardening 950 shields at the expense of my armour tank is a great idea. So only 2 of these modules actualy benefit me. The scanner only scans at 100m, that's a whole 39,000 square meters where you can shoot me and I still can't tell where you are. What benifit is that to me? If you cant scan them at 100m they probably can't hit you either. I usually like judges videos, but this one seems a little biased. He talks about infantry not dealing with the same issues, yet I have been ohk'd by dropships, tanks, snipers, forgers, and RE scouts, having no clue where it came from. The issues in this video are exactly the same issues that infantry deal with on a regular basis, they are some of the biggest issues in dust for EVERYONE, not just pilots. I would have to agree with most of the people saying fit a scanner, and go about slaughtering infantry without ever losing an ADS...
abdullah muzaffar Immortal Guides 1	Posted - 2014.07.18 00:15:00 - [66] - Quote I don't understand why they don't give it an HP buff and cripple its speed. Being able to outrun a swarm is its op factor
waistr DEAD-MEN-WALKING 208	Posted - 2014.07.18 01:26:00 - [67] - Quote Dropships don't bother me, I enjoy the fight between me and you, sometimes I loose, sometimes you loose, I find forge gunning very fun and challenging I have to fight both the ground troupes and the drop ship Which is something "Judge" does not take into account in his Videos.... I'm fighting a battle on two fronts. Are you, judge?
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 969	Posted - 2014.07.18 07:04:00 - [68] - Quote I don't think he was trying to point out the issues for both sides or be unbiased. I think he was trying to show us the issues he deals with as a pilot. I like seeing it, I don't fly and I want balance fir both sides. Clearly dropships don't have to deal with cloaked shotgun scouts popping them in the head while they are tracking their target, I don't think the video was meant to address all the issues regarding dropship/AV balance. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 969	Posted - 2014.07.18 07:07:00 - [69] - Quote I will say that it was a very weak argument saying infantry knows where a shot is coming from and can avoid it. We deal with the same issues as he does on that front. I forge gun people all the time, they not only have no warning, all they see is "BLAP", what OHK's a Python that way? Because, that's why.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2538	Posted - 2014.07.18 08:08:00 - [70] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: .... I think he was trying to show us the issues he deals with as a pilot......Clearly dropships don't have to deal with cloaked shotgun scouts popping them in the head while they are tracking their target, I don't think the video was meant to address all the issues regarding dropship/AV balance. I was pointing out that before we can adjust missile speed, forge range or damage, we have to establish the rules of the engagement. Scouts often cloak and run mid fire fight. I often see a scout drop a remote, cloak up and run out of danger. Any infantry player can duck into cover. We could set swarm damage high enough that 1 volley will kill a dropship. That's no problem. In that case though we need to give pilots the ability to deal with such a potent threat. Flares, lock warning etc. In DUST crap rendering is here to stay and limited to no client updates means we cannot do this. We need to look at both sides, what they face as they fight, and tweak it so its a fun fight. I play also as a maxed out Proto minmando with prof 5 and Proto swarms. I know both sides very well. I have fought for changes to swarms to make them stronger several times. Re-watch the videos I did on that if you want to see my views from the other side. I die to infantry more than dropships when I swarm. Its hard to defend yourself when you are pointing at the sky. Is the issue more about giving swarms better tools against ground attack or better defense from air attack? For example make swarms have very short lock on so they can fire then quickly get back to defending themselves from infantry, but balance that with less missiles..or much faster weapon switch speed, better passive scan when holding a swarm, special swarm only side arms....just a made-up examples to show we need to adjust the tools to fit the battlefield CCP places us on. Missile speed and damage are not the only things to look at. THIS was my point. When these two sides fight what makes you scream BS! down the mic? What makes you feel the game is unfair.? Lets look at those things too. I did not mention buffs or nerfs at all in the video. I said it was for the non pilots. Those that do not fly are commenting on swarms and forges in other threads, but they are not aware of the challenges the pilot faces. I do not expect AV players to try flying. We cannot all have the SP for that, or the interest. What I CAN do is show you what we face and ask you to keep it in mind. This is what I have done. If you see an AV player who does not understand the pilots view, point him here. then the discussion can continue with both sides being able to make more informed decisions Judge for CPM 1 Twitter @Judge_EVELegion

Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3080	Posted - 2014.07.18 11:05:00 - [71] - Quote B145PH3M3R wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: 843-Vika wrote: a simple fix to the AV you can't see because of rendering is use a scanner. it works for infantry when they use it and i use a militia DS with a militia scanner when i start the match as a troop transport and anti drop ship move and i can see everything just fine. Well it works for same kind of place he was points out in the video, close range AV. AV that sits at the max range are harder to detect but that's a different story My Incubus has 1 High slot this can be filled with either/or Scanner Has a 100m range well with in Swarm Launcher Radius, doesn't benefit me since I can still see him if I look at him Afterburner Let's get the hell out of dodge, as soon as possible because that Swarm Launcer guy already has 3 volleys in the air. Booster Let's my armour rep back slightly before the next volley, dependent upon the situation better than an afterbuner Extender More shields, only good if I actually get much use out of my shields (I don't, they are a shield gate, a spider sense if you will) Shield Hardener Because hardening 950 shields at the expense of my armour tank is a great idea. So only 2 of these modules actualy benefit me. The scanner only scans at 100m, that's a whole 39,000 square meters where you can shoot me and I still can't tell where you are. What benifit is that to me? If you cant scan them at 100m they probably can't hit you either. I usually like judges videos, but this one seems a little biased. He talks about infantry not dealing with the same issues, yet I have been ohk'd by dropships, tanks, snipers, forgers, and RE scouts, having no clue where it came from. The issues in this video are exactly the same issues that infantry deal with on a regular basis, they are some of the biggest issues in dust for EVERYONE, not just pilots. I would have to agree with most of the people saying fit a scanner, and go about slaughtering infantry without ever losing an ADS... So you are telling me You can't see the massive steel box flying around at 130m away? You can't here it coming? Once again the Scanner Results in 39,000 square meters where you still don't shpw up on radar. Futhermore even if you do show up on my scan how do I differentiate your AV carrying blip from a Rifle carrying blip? Finally the Scanner doesn't help at all with forge guns which have considerably greatee than 150m range. I understand those infantry problems, yes they do happen but OHK are different, while I belive that OHK should only come from forge and rail guns, that isn't the matter at hand. The matter is, is that if you survive the first shot, you have more information than we do. Swarm launchers can be launched behind you but hit you on opposing flanks, giving false readings Forgeguns about 40% of the time, hit with absolutely no indication, your health will just drop for no apparent reason We get considerably less information to go on then you do after the first shot, and unlike you, we only have AT BEST 3-4 more shots before we fall from the sky. There is no cover, no where to hide we only have 2 choices. 1) Kill the unkown Assailant from an unkown location before we die (hope he worked alone) 2) Get out of range re group amd try again. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
DontChimpOut Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 41	Posted - 2014.07.18 11:09:00 - [72] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: the ADS is getting a price drop in the next hotfix. Is the sky going to be filled with OP players? Is the Afterburner OP? When AV meets ADS where lies the balance? Let me get the conversation started. Also... Vote Judge You're like a real-world politician and / or news anchor. Nobody likes you.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3080	Posted - 2014.07.18 11:14:00 - [73] - Quote waistr wrote: Dropships don't bother me, I enjoy the fight between me and you, sometimes I loose, sometimes you loose, I find forge gunning very fun and challenging But and its a big "but" I have to fight both the ground troupes... snipers, assault... heavy's etc and the drop ship, while you are going for a leisurely cruse looking for "fish in a barrel" to shoot So when you say you cant see a SWRM LAUNCHER or a Forge gunner are you taking into account that everyone on the battlefield can figure out where it came from?...and I am screwed Which is something "Judge" does not take into account in his Videos its his precious dropship.... I'm fighting a battle on two fronts. Are you, judge? Swarms Forges - Front one Rail gun Tanks Missile Tanks Installations - Front two Enemy Pilots Dropship Rammers - Front three Also since when are we looking for 'fish in a barrel' how can you tell what I as a dropship pilot am prioritising as a target? I personally constantly look for dropuplinks or ant's nests being set up by the enemy, I am a greatee service to my team destroying 30 uplinks than I am killing 2 medium suits. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1459	Posted - 2014.07.18 12:07:00 - [74] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: Also, that a scout who's seen, and fired upon, is dead(at least, minjas/ewar scouts) how fair would it be if a scout could evade damage to the point that, once seen, they only need activate their 'Kincat Stimulant' and they now run at 25m/s? I understand a Dropship's only defense against AV is to either kill them or nullify the damage(buildings/distance) however, being able to instantly just GTFO button instantly away from a point is semi-uncalled for. What if: an ADS recieved a Top Speed boost,(as currently) but no Accel?(spitballin here) the current problem AV encounters against an ADS is they loiter about, spitting 1-2hko missiles about all willy-nilly, and then, AFTER their counter appears, they just teleport away until the threat gives up or is engulfed by the approaching masses. Tell me 'No.' Or whatever, but it's just me, a lowly AV/minja person who's speaking displeasure, and partial disagreement to your claims. But the scout with a Kincat Stimulant has lots of cover in the form of buildings, microterrain, boxes, pillars, other players, etc. to break line of sight, and therefore stop the incoming damage. An ADS has no way to avoid your damage but to get out of your range to hit him. I think your kincat stimulant is fair and balanced if there is a wide open field with nothing for you to hide behind. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1508	Posted - 2014.07.18 13:12:00 - [75] - Quote I watched the video and I see that you have bad spartial awareness... first the roof swarmer... the guy shooting was not in the middle of the roof, he was sitting close to the wall (it is large enough to cover a suit) thus you could not see him. there was nothing to render. the guy behind the obstacle fired straight in the air thus the swarms curved and were like 10 meter above the roof already thus from your point of view due to the angle you looked at the swarms it seems that the swarms are coming from the middle of the roof. for better explanation just look at this image http://snag.gy/L69O6.jpg same at the second scene, the guy on the roof was fully covered by the obstacle from the angle you looked first till you flied by and changed the point view which you look at him. and finally the small dot who was a swarmer where you said you cant see him, well you were looking straight on a human sized target without any angle, you were basically looking down on his shoulders and the top of this head from around hundred meters away from him, ofcourse he will be hard to see if he does not move...
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3082	Posted - 2014.07.18 13:18:00 - [76] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Also, that a scout who's seen, and fired upon, is dead(at least, minjas/ewar scouts) how fair would it be if a scout could evade damage to the point that, once seen, they only need activate their 'Kincat Stimulant' and they now run at 25m/s? I understand a Dropship's only defense against AV is to either kill them or nullify the damage(buildings/distance) however, being able to instantly just GTFO button instantly away from a point is semi-uncalled for. What if: an ADS recieved a Top Speed boost,(as currently) but no Accel?(spitballin here) the current problem AV encounters against an ADS is they loiter about, spitting 1-2hko missiles about all willy-nilly, and then, AFTER their counter appears, they just teleport away until the threat gives up or is engulfed by the approaching masses. Tell me 'No.' Or whatever, but it's just me, a lowly AV/minja person who's speaking displeasure, and partial disagreement to your claims. But the scout with a Kincat Stimulant has lots of cover in the form of buildings, microterrain, boxes, pillars, other players, etc. to break line of sight, and therefore stop the incoming damage. An ADS has no way to avoid your damage but to get out of your range to hit him. I think your kincat stimulant is fair and balanced if there is a wide open field with nothing for you to hide behind. Not to mention scouts have cloaks that can be activated at any time. Simply drop behind a wall and your gone like a ghost. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Jimmy Slapnuts Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2014.07.18 13:24:00 - [77] - Quote With regards to Swarms, with their ridiculously short lock-on range and slow speed, it really shouldn't be THAT difficult to figure out where they're coming from. You KNOW they have to be coming from someplace close, or they wouldn't get the lock in the first place so, if you're near a building or any other elevated position, it's a pretty safe bet that the AV with the Swarm Launcher is probably on top of it somewhere. Yes, swarms and AV players not rendering for DS pilots is a HUGE issue, but it's not like those Swarms can be coming at you from anywhere on the map, just from somewhere in pretty small radius below you. Even if the first volley is an auto-hit (or even the second, for that matter), you can still just fly straight up out of range to easily outrun and avoid the next volley. You don't NEED cover, you just need distance (and not very much of it, either).
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2540	Posted - 2014.07.18 13:31:00 - [78] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: I watched the video and I see that you have bad spatial awareness... You are mistaken. Judge for CPM 1 Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1509	Posted - 2014.07.18 13:35:00 - [79] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Jack McReady wrote: I watched the video and I see that you have bad spatial awareness... You are mistaken. yeah that is why it is obvious when watching your video, I even painted it for you on the screenshot http://snag.gy/L69O6.jpg thus even a spartial awareness scrubs like you would understand
Jimmy Slapnuts Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2014.07.18 13:59:00 - [80] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Jack McReady wrote: I watched the video and I see that you have bad spatial awareness... You are mistaken. I don't believe that he is. If you watch your video again, at 1:02, you point out the nanohive on the roof and claim that it "looks" clear, but that is only because, at that moment, the AV player is BEHIND the structure that the nanohive is on, and thus out of your line of sight (you can clearly see that he had fired at you from behind this structure once you've swung around from the other side at 1:26. You blame this on rendering, but clearly this is simply an issue of the Swarm player using cover to his advantage. At 1:32, you point out that he is standing in the middle of the roof, which he clearly is, but only because he MOVED to that position AFTER the first volley. He was NOT standing there, out in the open, the whole time. While I completely agree that rendering is an issue in this game (and not just for Pilots), and I'm normally a big fan of your videos, but this one just seems a little sloppy and biased, IMO. (no offence)

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2540	Posted - 2014.07.18 14:05:00 - [81] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Jack McReady wrote: I watched the video and I see that you have bad spatial awareness... You are mistaken. there is a little secret that spatial awareness scrubs like you do not understand, you are looking on the roof from a ~60 degree angle. I painted it for you on the screenshot http://snag.gy/L69O6.jpg thus even you would understand. so in short, you are mistaken. he fired straight up after lock while covering close to the wall, even the smokes of the missiles are coming from behind the cover. it is all in your video. Okay. Ill show you a video of the section before your screen shot more closely. I do analyse this stuff frame by frame in close up before I say what is happening. The "scrubs like you" comment and "even you would understand" are not helpful to anyone by the way. Jimmy Slapnuts wrote: I don't believe that he is...........You blame this on rendering, but clearly this is simply an issue of the Swarm player using cover to his advantage..........but this one just seems a little sloppy and biased, IMO. I think I was right. Judge for CPM 1 Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Jimmy Slapnuts Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2014.07.18 14:20:00 - [82] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Jimmy Slapnuts wrote: I don't believe that he is...........You blame this on rendering, but clearly this is simply an issue of the Swarm player using cover to his advantage..........but this one just seems a little sloppy and biased, IMO. I think I was right. I know you do, but if you look at the timestamps that I mentioned, you'll see that it's pretty clear that, in this instance at least, you aren't. Sorry. Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with the point you're trying to make, I just don't think that this particular footage illustrates it very well (if at all). Again, I mean no offence. I've watched MANY of your videos, and I know you can do better. (YOU'VE been judged! lol)
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2540	Posted - 2014.07.18 14:34:00 - [83] - Quote Jimmy. Did you watch the new segment I linked to? That was his first volly. You can see him render from that spot as he fires for less than a second. 8 frames i think. Judge for CPM 1 Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Takahashi Kashuken Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 151	Posted - 2014.07.18 14:45:00 - [84] - Quote Oh no a vehicle is getting a buff nerf it nerf it nerfi it now its so OP Bad scrubs ADS is the only vehicle which somehow is useful in PC matches, you know that gamemode that 90% of you dont play because you are scrubs and even then the pilot has to be damn ***** good to stay alive and survive with rooftop FGs about Even in pubs ADS isnt easy, look at judge hes a terrible pilot and ive seen him get taken out by adv level swarms on a regular basis thats if he doesnt quit the game 1st, they wont become FOTM because it takes some skill to fly one let alone get kills and if any decent FG is on the otherside they can stop you from doing anything AB works because it does its job ie hitting top speed when its on and if it outruns swarms then tough **, i mean look at the SL its a skillless weapon for scrubs which can fire all its ammo in less than 4seconds and still the missiles travel to 400m out even when the SL has lost lock on
Jimmy Slapnuts Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 80	Posted - 2014.07.18 14:52:00 - [85] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Jimmy. Did you watch the new segment I linked to? That was his first volley. You can see him render from that spot as he fires for less than a second. 8 frames i think. He does run eventually to the rear hump, but not at this point. (2:36 volley 3 is from this point.) Yes, and it nicely illustrates MY point, that THAT particular volley came from just behind that structure on the roof, which would have been just out of your line of sight from your original approach. In the time it took you to pass the roof and turn around, he had PLENTY of time to take a couple steps away from the wall before firing (which is precisely where your video zooms in on him). How do you not see that? Anywho, not really worth arguing about. Like I said, I DO agree with the point you're TRYING to make, but it seems like you tried a little too hard to make it seem that this clip illustrates it (when it really doesn't), instead of using some other footage that CLEARLY does (like at 1:52 where the installation obviously POPS into view, for example) I just thought that this particular video wasn't up to your usual standards, that's all. (Judge not, lest YE be judged!)
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2540	Posted - 2014.07.18 15:00:00 - [86] - Quote The new video shows him standing there in the middle as he fires. then he de-renders. it can't be clearer than that. Also you can see the second swarmer on the hives shooting down over the edge. Judge for CPM 1 Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1509	Posted - 2014.07.18 15:09:00 - [87] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Jimmy. Did you watch the new segment I linked to? That was his first volley. You can see him render from that spot as he fires for less than a second. 8 frames i think. He does run eventually to the rear hump, but not at this point. (2:36 volley 3 is from this point.) Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: The new video shows him standing there in the middle as he fires. then he de-renders. it can't be clearer than that. Also you can see the second swarmer on the hives shooting down over the edge. you are taking nothing into account except your fooled senses. there are several factors that you dismiss, this is how swarm animation looks like when fired, the angle you are looking at it, the smoke path and the fact that you can actually fire swarms in the opposite direction when locked if you know how. additionally you obviously need some glasses. first of all that small spot where you claim something is rendering, well nothing is changing there, it is just a bad looking texture and it looks the same the whole video. no one is actually standing there. buy some glasses second, you are looking at the swarms after they already had been fired, you dont see anyone actually fire them. when swarms are fired, they are quickly launched into the air, then get a bit slower where they "hang" in the air, then afterwards turn on thrusters and chase the target. you got them in your POV when they were "hanging" in the air, in short they already were fired. you never saw someone firing the launcher thus you do not know where he actually is. third, you can see from the smoke path that the guy just launched them from behind cover in the opposite direction. the swarms then curved a few meters above the roof into your direction thus look like they are coming from the middle of the roof where no one actually is. you are wrong in this case, deal with it.
Beld Errmon 1784	Posted - 2014.07.18 15:34:00 - [88] - Quote Shame this thread didn't come up before I became completely F***ing sick of arguing about ADS, bottom line you green eyed scrubs, CCP has the stats, ADS die all the time, unless their stats show otherwise they aren't gunna nerf ADS on the word of a few BAD Avers, the AB isn't an I live button 100% of the time and nerfing the AB will only result in shorter windows of opportunity for you to get to shoot at the ADS. Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)
Lanius Pulvis Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 313	Posted - 2014.07.18 15:38:00 - [89] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: I'm fairly intrigued that enemy chevrons aren't showing up at some of the ranges you were at from them; particularly when you flew over the hanger with the swarmer and forger on it. Is that how it is for a lot of players? Because I usually got the chevron at those ranges (and I usually play solo so no shared scans) but it has been a little bit since a flew, just really got back into playing the game. I rarely get chevrons unless they're directly in front of me for a few seconds. Not new, just new to you.
Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10647	Posted - 2014.07.18 15:43:00 - [90] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Tthe AB isn't an I live button 100% of the time. Completely evading any and all threats in the span of 1.5-2.6s is an "I live button" for any pilot who's smart enough to not crash into a building. The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers! -HAND

Beld Errmon 1785	Posted - 2014.07.18 15:54:00 - [91] - Quote Atiim wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: Tthe AB isn't an I live button 100% of the time. Completely evading any and all threats in the span of 1.5-2.6s is an "I live button" for any pilot who's smart enough to not crash into a building. I'm done with the subject, and I learnt a long time ago its pointless arguing with a populist like you, you jump on the bandwagon of anything you think the majority supports, while in game doing the exact opposite of what you preach, badly. Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 132	Posted - 2014.07.18 16:15:00 - [92] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Remove the ridiculous bonuses to RoF on the ADS' and the problem will be greatly reduced. that will REALLY help. -- You called, sir?
Takahashi Kashuken Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 153	Posted - 2014.07.18 16:54:00 - [93] - Quote Atiim wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: Tthe AB isn't an I live button 100% of the time. Completely evading any and all threats in the span of 1.5-2.6s is an "I live button" for any pilot who's smart enough to not crash into a building. If you are going to continue to use a fire and forget weapon because you are a scrub then the AB will continue to exist because nothing is scrubbier than the SL with its no skill fire and forget lauching its full clip in under 4seconds 400m evading corner missiles
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 666	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:26:00 - [94] - Quote Takahashi Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: Tthe AB isn't an I live button 100% of the time. Completely evading any and all threats in the span of 1.5-2.6s is an "I live button" for any pilot who's smart enough to not crash into a building. If you are going to continue to use a fire and forget weapon because you are a scrub then the AB will continue to exist because nothing is scrubbier than the SL with its no skill fire and forget lauching its full clip in under 4seconds 400m evading corner missiles In all fairness, the Swarm Launcher is hands down the easiest weapon to evade. Even in open fields the damn things crash into the ground if their "smart" brains tell them it's the quickest path to the target. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3082	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:40:00 - [95] - Quote Takahashi Kashuken wrote: Oh no a vehicle is getting a buff nerf it nerf it nerfi it now its so OP Bad scrubs ADS is the only vehicle which somehow is useful in PC matches, you know that gamemode that 90% of you dont play because you are scrubs and even then the pilot has to be damn ***** good to stay alive and survive with rooftop FGs about Even in pubs ADS isnt easy, look at judge hes a terrible pilot and ive seen him get taken out by adv level swarms on a regular basis thats if he doesnt quit the game 1st, they wont become FOTM because it takes some skill to fly one let alone get kills and if any decent FG is on the otherside they can stop you from doing anything AB works because it does its job ie hitting top speed when its on and if it outruns swarms then tough , i mean look at the SL its a skillless weapon for scrubs which can fire all its ammo in less than 4seconds and still the missiles travel to 400m out even when the SL has lost lock on 1) Yes it's lock-on why can't a weapon that targets vehicles travelling upwards of 25mph? Seriously what is the problem. 2) Fire and Forget, means exactly what it says, I can't forget about the target. I need to take into consoderation the local terrain, sure I can just lock on and fire, but most of the time you'll just hit the terrain. 3)Please don't start the whole 'PC master race' rubbish, it's only good for knowing what definitely OP, I have been in PC matches all it is FOTM spam and Spawn Camping. 4) Please don't talk about skilless, you are complaining about people fighting through and around enemy infantry, to get and kill you, meanwhile you QQ that your blaster can't 3 shot with perfect accuracy. 5) You seriously expect missiles to blow up after 150m ? Come on this is the problem with you an Spkr, you have no consoderation for AVer. You blow up a few vehicles with help from your own tanks, as vindication for your own tank spam. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3082	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:43:00 - [96] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: Takahashi Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: Tthe AB isn't an I live button 100% of the time. Completely evading any and all threats in the span of 1.5-2.6s is an "I live button" for any pilot who's smart enough to not crash into a building. If you are going to continue to use a fire and forget weapon because you are a scrub then the AB will continue to exist because nothing is scrubbier than the SL with its no skill fire and forget lauching its full clip in under 4seconds 400m evading corner missiles In all fairness, the Swarm Launcher is hands down the easiest weapon to evade. Even in open fields the damn things crash into the ground if their "smart" brains tell them it's the quickest path to the target. He wouldn't know this he spends most of his time in a tank, the problem with most of the people who argue as Pro-Tanking They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 77	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:12:00 - [97] - Quote Takahashi Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: Tthe AB isn't an I live button 100% of the time. Completely evading any and all threats in the span of 1.5-2.6s is an "I live button" for any pilot who's smart enough to not crash into a building. If you are going to continue to use a fire and forget weapon because you are a scrub then the AB will continue to exist because nothing is scrubbier than the SL with its no skill fire and forget lauching its full clip in under 4seconds 400m evading corner missiles SL is in no way a fire and forget weapon, you always have to take into consideration what is in the way i.e. building, rocks and things like that. its very easy for a tank or ADS to fly/drive around a building and those dumb(smart) brains on the SL rocket will hit that and not your target. AS for an ADS they just hit their afterburners and out run the swarms. If anything the FG is more fire and forget since it just goes in a straight line.
Takahashi Kashuken Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 154	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:48:00 - [98] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Takahashi Kashuken wrote: Oh no a vehicle is getting a buff nerf it nerf it nerfi it now its so OP Bad scrubs ADS is the only vehicle which somehow is useful in PC matches, you know that gamemode that 90% of you dont play because you are scrubs and even then the pilot has to be damn ***** good to stay alive and survive with rooftop FGs about Even in pubs ADS isnt easy, look at judge hes a terrible pilot and ive seen him get taken out by adv level swarms on a regular basis thats if he doesnt quit the game 1st, they wont become FOTM because it takes some skill to fly one let alone get kills and if any decent FG is on the otherside they can stop you from doing anything AB works because it does its job ie hitting top speed when its on and if it outruns swarms then tough , i mean look at the SL its a skillless weapon for scrubs which can fire all its ammo in less than 4seconds and still the missiles travel to 400m out even when the SL has lost lock on 1) Yes it's lock-on why can't a weapon that targets vehicles travelling upwards of 25mph? Seriously what is the problem. 2) Fire and Forget, means exactly what it says, I can't forget about the target. I need to take into consoderation the local terrain, sure I can just lock on and fire, but most of the time you'll just hit the terrain. 3)Please don't start the whole 'PC master race' rubbish, it's only good for knowing what definitely OP, I have been in PC matches all it is FOTM spam and Spawn Camping. 4) Please don't talk about skilless, you are complaining about people fighting through and around enemy infantry, to get and kill you, meanwhile you QQ that your blaster can't 3 shot with perfect accuracy. 5) You seriously expect missiles to blow up after 150m ? Come on this is the problem with you an Spkr, you have no consoderation for AVer. You blow up a few vehicles with help from your own tanks, as vindication for your own tank spam. 1. Barely have to lock on, hell you can lock on and not look at the target and still fire which is broken, really you should have to keep lock and as soon as your not on the target you lose lock 2. Hit the terrain lolno, you dont even have to keep lock on to guide the missiles 3. PC master race, you dont balance for pubs, PC finds out what works and what doesnt - fact 4. Its skilless, it requires 0 aim, blaster used to require aim because if that small dot was on you it meant i hit the target now its down to luck and random bullet spread because accuracy means ** all, SL users fight through ppl lolno they dont they get on a roof 5. Never said that
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1462	Posted - 2014.07.18 23:09:00 - [99] - Quote 843-Vika wrote: Takahashi Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: Tthe AB isn't an I live button 100% of the time. Completely evading any and all threats in the span of 1.5-2.6s is an "I live button" for any pilot who's smart enough to not crash into a building. If you are going to continue to use a fire and forget weapon because you are a scrub then the AB will continue to exist because nothing is scrubbier than the SL with its no skill fire and forget lauching its full clip in under 4seconds 400m evading corner missiles SL is in no way a fire and forget weapon, you always have to take into consideration what is in the way i.e. building, rocks and things like that. its very easy for a tank or ADS to fly/drive around a building and those dumb(smart) brains on the SL rocket will hit that and not your target. AS for an ADS they just hit their afterburners and out run the swarms. If anything the FG is more fire and forget since it just goes in a straight line. Your misunderstanding the concept of fire and forget weapon. Fire and forget means that once the missiles leave your launcher, you do not have to pay attention anymore to the vehicle, save for wanting to relock and fire again. Once they leave your launcher, you no longer need to manually guide the swarms, or maintain the swarm lock by constantly keeping the launcher lock on the vehicle. You can simply set them loose and go about your business, and the swarms will take care of the rest for you. Now should you want to get another swarm volley off, yes you do have to continue to look at the vehicle and relock it and release another volley, but none of this in any way affects the behavior of the first swarm. The first swarm will either hit the vehicle, or it won't, completely independent from any action you might take. This is why they are "fire-and-forget" technology. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 2702	Posted - 2014.07.18 23:17:00 - [100] - Quote If only I knew how to fly the damn things. I might just stack armor plates to slow that incubus down a bit. How do you people do it? What's your secret?

Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 336	Posted - 2014.07.18 23:25:00 - [101] - Quote It sounds like the removal of stacking ADS turret skills is a bad idea because: People dedicate themselves to this. They train with their pilots and gunners every day. It's not fair to someone who trained turret skill specifically for this to have their stacking bonuses removed. It should still be better to have turret skill as a gunner than not having any at all. Change it if you must, but don't remove it so that people have wasted SP. Eventually the Dust community is going to nerf itself into nonexistance. Please don't ruin heavies CCP.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 29	Posted - 2014.07.20 21:08:00 - [102] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: It sounds like the removal of stacking ADS turret skills is a bad idea because: People dedicate themselves to this. They train with their pilots and gunners every day. It's not fair to someone who trained turret skill specifically for this to have their stacking bonuses removed. It should still be better to have turret skill as a gunner than not having any at all.d Change it if you must, but don't remove it so that people have wasted SP. When you gun especially with missles they fly all over the place. We need that rof.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3091	Posted - 2014.07.20 21:20:00 - [103] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: It sounds like the removal of stacking ADS turret skills is a bad idea because: People dedicate themselves to this. They train with their pilots and gunners every day. It's not fair to someone who trained turret skill specifically for this to have their stacking bonuses removed. It should still be better to have turret skill as a gunner than not having any at all.d Change it if you must, but don't remove it so that people have wasted SP. When you gun especially with missles they fly all over the place. We need that rof. No you don't, do you lack the capacity to adjust aim for velocity? People who have skilled specifically to achieve this bug, should be punished. It is known bug it is not/or ever was intended. Nor can you argue the text implied it was intentional, it isn't. The simplest way to do it is so the skill only applies to the turret you are manning, receiving a +50% ROF bonus and no more. If people want out because they don't get +150% then tough **. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 94	Posted - 2014.07.20 21:52:00 - [104] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: It sounds like the removal of stacking ADS turret skills is a bad idea because: People dedicate themselves to this. They train with their pilots and gunners every day. It's not fair to someone who trained turret skill specifically for this to have their stacking bonuses removed. It should still be better to have turret skill as a gunner than not having any at all.d Change it if you must, but don't remove it so that people have wasted SP. When you gun especially with missles they fly all over the place. We need that rof. No you don't, do you lack the capacity to adjust aim for velocity? People who have skilled specifically to achieve this bug, should be punished. It is known bug it is not/or ever was intended. Nor can you argue the text implied it was intentional, it isn't. The simplest way to do it is so the skill only applies to the turret you are manning, receiving a +50% ROF bonus and no more. If people want out because they don't get +150% then tough ****. when we had the Vayu tanks, those skills didn't stack, only turret skills stacked. So why would it be different now?
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3091	Posted - 2014.07.20 22:05:00 - [105] - Quote 843-Vika wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: It sounds like the removal of stacking ADS turret skills is a bad idea because: People dedicate themselves to this. They train with their pilots and gunners every day. It's not fair to someone who trained turret skill specifically for this to have their stacking bonuses removed. It should still be better to have turret skill as a gunner than not having any at all.d Change it if you must, but don't remove it so that people have wasted SP. When you gun especially with missles they fly all over the place. We need that rof. No you don't, do you lack the capacity to adjust aim for velocity? People who have skilled specifically to achieve this bug, should be punished. It is known bug it is not/or ever was intended. Nor can you argue the text implied it was intentional, it isn't. The simplest way to do it is so the skill only applies to the turret you are manning, receiving a +50% ROF bonus and no more. If people want out because they don't get +150% then tough **. when we had the Vayu tanks, those skills didn't stack, only turret skills stacked. So why would it be different now? You have asked this already, as I explained the dev's confirmed it https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=167719&find=unread here. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 380	Posted - 2014.07.21 03:41:00 - [106] - Quote People who don't come on the forum can't be blamed for "exploiting bugs." That's like saying if you put 4 damage mods on your Caldari heavy it's exploiting a bug. No, it's exploiting something CCP put into the game. You know the scary thing about em? They don't need power... lights, heat, nothing. That's their advantage.
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 136	Posted - 2014.07.21 04:11:00 - [107] - Quote I've mentioned this before..... Beef the dropships (double the respective tank) and slow them down by 10% I have not mentioned this, but increase passsive scan by 2x. those red dots are going to help, but the mobility nerf will make us more 'stand and deliver' type of pilots. -- You called, sir?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12064	Posted - 2014.07.21 04:18:00 - [108] - Quote Actually I heard something yesterday that completely revised my opinion on this topic. Mina Longstrike was discussion ADS with us and said (roughly)..... "The reason they are so fast is that they need to be, otherwise they cannot survive, the reason they choose to run and not to engage is because often times they cannot adapt to the new threat on the fly, pun intended. Its not that they are too fast its that they can use afterburners too often......" Which basically now surmises my opinions on the matter. ADS don't need more EHP and they don't need too be slower. "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 788	Posted - 2014.07.21 04:26:00 - [109] - Quote The price drop worries me that if people decide to spam them then it is going to be difficult to navigate around newbies that lack awareness of the skies around them. On the bright side more people crashing and burning in them will likely lead to a small increase in pub match payouts for some people.
Dauth Jenkins Merc-0107 555	Posted - 2014.07.21 04:53:00 - [110] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: I support the idea of lowering ADS costs and I would like collision damage to be changed as well. Judge made an excellent video with some good points about swarm speed and the AB. It was a selective video though about one aspect and in the end we need to ask, do more Pythons die to AV'ers or more AV'ers to Pythons. We can remove the factor of player skill by asking Judge, or anyone playing both roles, this question. I am confident that the pilots are winning these engagements the majority of the time. I hear pilots complain about "almost being killed" by AV all the time. AV never complains about "almost" being killed by pilots. The issue in my opinion is the difference in TTK between the two. Yes, the AV'er often has the first mover advantage but with a TTK approaching 15 seconds for the Python this means that even after being hit the pilot has 7-8 seconds to engage the AV'er and still leave a window for escape. With a 1-2 second TTK for the AV'er, this means the outcome is always in the pilot's hands, he either wins or escapes every time unless he chooses to overstay. So how do we make it so that the TTK is a little more even without tipping the scales entirely the other direction? How do we factor in the ridiculous regen the Python exhibits which negates all previous actions done by an AV'er in a matter of seconds? You cant factor out a players skill. A good forger will take me out a bad one wont, simple so get your skill up not you but anyone complaining about dropships being op. I'm not sure you understood my post. If Player A plays using a Python half the time and using AV half the time, in which does he die more often? In which does he kill more often? If money was on the line and they played against themselves would they choose to be a pilot or an AV'er? We have players that do both, so skill isn't the differentiating factor for them. I do both on the same character, and I fly a python more. But remember, most times, the AV that gets killed is a mlt swarmer. I can kill a swarmer 6 times, but if I did once, I've lost risk and half to play 3 matches to make it up. The AV balance is pretty good right now, as most AV is strong enough to force me to leave, and if the AV is more than just a MLT Blueberry, they will be able to rebuff me the entire time. I'm not the best pilot, but I'm pretty good. -Sincerely --The Dual Swarm Commando

Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 980	Posted - 2014.07.21 07:29:00 - [111] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Actually I heard something yesterday that completely revised my opinion on this topic. Mina Longstrike was discussion ADS with us and said (roughly)..... "The reason they are so fast is that they need to be, otherwise they cannot survive, the reason they choose to run and not to engage is because often times they cannot adapt to the new threat on the fly, pun intended. Its not that they are too fast its that they can use afterburners too often......" Which basically now surmises my opinions on the matter. ADS don't need more EHP and they don't need too be slower. Many are saying to nerf the AB cooldown. I personally don't understand how that fixes the problem but with several people saying it who usually have good opinions, it should be on the table. Because, that's why.
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 790	Posted - 2014.07.21 11:20:00 - [112] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: True Adamance wrote: Actually I heard something yesterday that completely revised my opinion on this topic. Mina Longstrike was discussion ADS with us and said (roughly)..... "The reason they are so fast is that they need to be, otherwise they cannot survive, the reason they choose to run and not to engage is because often times they cannot adapt to the new threat on the fly, pun intended. Its not that they are too fast its that they can use afterburners too often......" Which basically now surmises my opinions on the matter. ADS don't need more EHP and they don't need too be slower. Many are saying to nerf the AB cooldown. I personally don't understand how that fixes the problem but with several people saying it who usually have good opinions, it should be on the table. All that nerfing AB cool down does is leaves the pilot staying away a few more seconds which ultimately nerfs the solo swarm who had assistance before they got bored while the dropship was away. As a dropship pilot I would be a fan of buffing the speed of swarm missles. With the right speed it leaves a pilot with the choice to GTFO or risk it as soon as the first set hits. I say this due to the fact that generally speaking I have several seconds minimum to try to find the person that launched the swarm and kill them or still escape with armor intact. I would also be a fan of rediculously buffing swarm speeds if we had a lock on indicator or atleast swarm users that render more than 50% of the time.
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 97	Posted - 2014.07.21 17:14:00 - [113] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: True Adamance wrote: Actually I heard something yesterday that completely revised my opinion on this topic. Mina Longstrike was discussion ADS with us and said (roughly)..... "The reason they are so fast is that they need to be, otherwise they cannot survive, the reason they choose to run and not to engage is because often times they cannot adapt to the new threat on the fly, pun intended. Its not that they are too fast its that they can use afterburners too often......" Which basically now surmises my opinions on the matter. ADS don't need more EHP and they don't need too be slower. Many are saying to nerf the AB cooldown. I personally don't understand how that fixes the problem but with several people saying it who usually have good opinions, it should be on the table. All that nerfing AB cool down does is leaves the pilot staying away a few more seconds which ultimately nerfs the solo swarm who had assistance before they got bored while the dropship was away. As a dropship pilot I would be a fan of buffing the speed of swarm missles. With the right speed it leaves a pilot with the choice to GTFO or risk it as soon as the first set hits. I say this due to the fact that generally speaking I have several seconds minimum to try to find the person that launched the swarm and kill them or still escape with armor intact. I would also be a fan of rediculously buffing swarm speeds if we had a lock on indicator or atleast swarm users that render more than 50% of the time. I would love to see a speed buff to swarms so they could keep up with the AB speed boosts as well as range that swarms can travel so that ADS cant just fly to roof of map above MCC to hide. This would force ADS pilots to learn evasive moves instead of just camp the map roof.
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 263	Posted - 2014.07.21 18:26:00 - [114] - Quote Joel II X wrote: If only I knew how to fly the damn things. I might just stack armor plates to slow that incubus down a bit. How do you people do it? What's your secret? Heavy Drinking
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 263	Posted - 2014.07.21 18:38:00 - [115] - Quote 843-Vika wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: True Adamance wrote: Actually I heard something yesterday that completely revised my opinion on this topic. Mina Longstrike was discussion ADS with us and said (roughly)..... "The reason they are so fast is that they need to be, otherwise they cannot survive, the reason they choose to run and not to engage is because often times they cannot adapt to the new threat on the fly, pun intended. Its not that they are too fast its that they can use afterburners too often......" Which basically now surmises my opinions on the matter. ADS don't need more EHP and they don't need too be slower. Many are saying to nerf the AB cooldown. I personally don't understand how that fixes the problem but with several people saying it who usually have good opinions, it should be on the table. All that nerfing AB cool down does is leaves the pilot staying away a few more seconds which ultimately nerfs the solo swarm who had assistance before they got bored while the dropship was away. As a dropship pilot I would be a fan of buffing the speed of swarm missles. With the right speed it leaves a pilot with the choice to GTFO or risk it as soon as the first set hits. I say this due to the fact that generally speaking I have several seconds minimum to try to find the person that launched the swarm and kill them or still escape with armor intact. I would also be a fan of rediculously buffing swarm speeds if we had a lock on indicator or atleast swarm users that render more than 50% of the time. I would love to see a speed buff to swarms so they could keep up with the AB speed boosts as well as range that swarms can travel so that ADS cant just fly to roof of map above MCC to hide. This would force ADS pilots to learn evasive moves instead of just camp the map roof. I hate flying up to the ceiling, and I really don't see many ADS pilots that do anymore. It's much more effective to use buildings against incoming swarms and horizontal/vertical changes against forges. Admittedly, the first hit I take that get's me to armor is met with an AB and a quick 100 ft vertical change, followed by a -100ft vertical change. That maneuver usually gets forges off of me for long enough to get my armor somewhat repped and swarms, well, swarms might drive me off after that to get a different approach on target.
Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 38	Posted - 2014.07.21 20:53:00 - [116] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I'm not sure we can do this sort of thing within the current hotfix model. Better passive scans would be a start. They would even the field a bit. I see you. You see me.. then we can decide on balance and make it fun for all. Uh, except Vehicles don't show up on passive scans. So that's not an even playing field. As AV I have no clue what direction that ADS I can hear is in, I have to spend time manually looking for it, while avoiding the ADS's field of view also, because if he sees me and goes after me I'm dead in 3-4 shots from missiles most of the time. Give all suits a passive vehicle scan that picks up vehicles at longer ranges, heavies should be the best at this as the dedicated AV suit, separate from the infantry passive so that you can give heavies enough range on it to matter without breaking infantry scan balance. Then you can have your better scan as well since it will actually be even. I only get a visual if there are no buildings in the way, same as you do.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2564	Posted - 2014.07.21 20:58:00 - [117] - Quote Nevyn Tazinas wrote: As AV I have no clue what direction that ADS I can hear is in. This was talked about way back as part i think of a dev blog about sound design. There was talk of fixing it, but it never happened. When I am swarming, it drives me nuts that the ADS sound seems to come from everywhere. In case you didn't know, as a pilot we can most times here the direction a swarm is firedfrom. Further up (long thread now so you probably missed it) I supported things like better scans when holding a swarm, etc. Not well fleshed out ideas, more about the concept. Make us both equally able to realize we are in a fight with each other. Judge for CPM 1 Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 38	Posted - 2014.07.21 21:06:00 - [118] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: This was talked about way back as part i think of a dev blog about sound design. There was talk of fixing it, but it never happened. When I am swarming, it drives me nuts that the ADS sound seems to come from everywhere. In case you didn't know, as a pilot we can most times here the direction a swarm is fired from. Further up (long thread now so you probably missed it) I supported things like better scans when holding a swarm, etc. Not well fleshed out ideas, more about the concept. Make us both equally able to realize we are in a fight with each other. Probably never happen with Dust, but separate Vehicle & Inf scan ranges would be the cleanest way I can think of. So your Heavy suits can be good at scanning Vehicles but terrible at scanning Inf, and certain vehicles would be good at one, others at the other, or possibly determined by primary turret on your vehicle if you equip for anti vehicle or anti inf.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2014.07.22 08:54:00 - [119] - Quote 843-Vika wrote: deezy dabest wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: True Adamance wrote: Actually I heard something yesterday that completely revised my opinion on this topic. Mina Longstrike was discussion ADS with us and said (roughly)..... "The reason they are so fast is that they need to be, otherwise they cannot survive, the reason they choose to run and not to engage is because often times they cannot adapt to the new threat on the fly, pun intended. Its not that they are too fast its that they can use afterburners too often......" Which basically now surmises my opinions on the matter. ADS don't need more EHP and they don't need too be slower. Many are saying to nerf the AB cooldown. I personally don't understand how that fixes the problem but with several people saying it who usually have good opinions, it should be on the table. All that nerfing AB cool down does is leaves the pilot staying away a few more seconds which ultimately nerfs the solo swarm who had assistance before they got bored while the dropship was away. As a dropship pilot I would be a fan of buffing the speed of swarm missles. With the right speed it leaves a pilot with the choice to GTFO or risk it as soon as the first set hits. I say this due to the fact that generally speaking I have several seconds minimum to try to find the person that launched the swarm and kill them or still escape with armor intact. I would also be a fan of rediculously buffing swarm speeds if we had a lock on indicator or atleast swarm users that render more than 50% of the time. I would love to see a speed buff to swarms so they could keep up with the AB speed boosts as well as range that swarms can travel so that ADS cant just fly to roof of map above MCC to hide. This would force ADS pilots to learn evasive moves instead of just camp the map roof. You cant evade swarms without getting behind a wall or outrunning them. With most maps being open there usually isnt much cover so i have no option but to fly the 100 m.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2573	Posted - 2014.07.22 10:52:00 - [120] - Quote I see a few comments about increasing swarm speed and reducing AB speed and/or cooldown. But we need to answer this question first : What is the purpose of the Afterburner? Remember it is a module, so takes up a slot which has the effect of considerably reducing tank. Around 900hp or so. What is it supposed to give me at the cost of that tank? Judge for CPM 1 Twitter @Judge_EVELegion

843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 112	Posted - 2014.07.22 15:56:00 - [121] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I see a few comments about increasing swarm speed and reducing AB speed and/or cooldown. But we need to answer this question first : What is the purpose of the Afterburner? Remember it is a module, so takes up a slot which has the effect of considerably reducing tank. Around 900hp or so. What is it supposed to give me at the cost of that tank? Weather or not the AB takes up a mod slot, it give any ADS a extreme speed boost beyond what any AV weapon can keep up with.....being able to use a mod to run away and by the time its hp has regenerated use the same booster again to run away is to OP.......i don't think they need be removed or lower the speed bonus at all....those aspects are just fine......but lower the CD timer so that the mod can't be abused.....either that or increase the range and speed of things like swarms so that it balances out the AB.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2576	Posted - 2014.07.22 16:01:00 - [122] - Quote 843-Vika wrote: it give any ADS a extreme speed boost beyond what any AV weapon can keep up with. It cannot out pace a forge shot or a rail turret or a rail tank turret or a missile turret, nor a missile tank turret or a small rail turret. Nor for that matter another ADS. So by no means "any" AV. So what is the role of the AB? What should it enable a player to do when it is used in the most effective way it can be used? For example : a breach forges when used at its most effective is to cause extreme alpha damage to its target. To do that it needs high damage per shot. When used at their most effective kin cats are to enable a player to out pace another player or to reach a target quickly. Cloaks when used at their most effective enable a player to remain un-scanned and/or unseen by an enemy. Judge for CPM 1 Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
MINA Longstrike 1053	Posted - 2014.07.24 09:07:00 - [123] - Quote 843-Vika wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I see a few comments about increasing swarm speed and reducing AB speed and/or cooldown. But we need to answer this question first : What is the purpose of the Afterburner? Remember it is a module, so takes up a slot which has the effect of considerably reducing tank. Around 900hp or so. What is it supposed to give me at the cost of that tank? Weather or not the AB takes up a mod slot, it give any ADS a extreme speed boost beyond what any AV weapon can keep up with.....being able to use a mod to run away and by the time its hp has regenerated use the same booster again to run away is to OP.......i don't think they need be removed or lower the speed bonus at all....those aspects are just fine......but lower the CD timer so that the mod can't be abused.....either that or increase the range and speed of things like swarms so that it balances out the AB. Have you tried flying an ADS without an afterburner recently? I do it pretty regularly on my anti-vehicle incubus. I get shot down all the goddamn time, because swarms are already insanely fast and incredibly hard to defeat without insane maneuvers (even with an afterburner frequently), without the ability to adjust momentum quickly that an afterburner provides assault forge-gunners have little problem tracking and repeatedly connecting forge-gun shots. The afterburner is so prevalent because to not fit one is suicide. How many MLT/STD dropships do you see escape from swarm or forge fire - I can guarantee you the number is absolutely abysmally low. Yes it annoys me when people just afterburner and zip away while I'm trying to catch them with a damage modded rail incubus. Yes it annoys me when assault dropships re-engage quickly after zooming out of swarm range when I'm shooting at them on a commando. But I understand completely why it is done - because AV is once again fast approaching 1.6 levels of lethality and to not run away like this (from things that almost always get the first shot in) is to throw away a half-million isk every time you call in an assault dropship. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
JAKE REDBLOOD New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 1	Posted - 2014.09.21 17:42:00 - [124] - Quote That video is spot on, we cannot see infantry until we are at least 20m away from them, sometimes even less. By which time we have already been hit by 2 sets of swarms and have no option but to run or die... it doesn't even matter if the swarms are proto or millita. We cannot see you in enough time to respond, so if we stick around we have maybe 1 or 2 shots to try and kill you otherwise we've lost 450k plus, it's never normally a single swarmer/fg . GREAT GAME MECHANICS... I will shoot you, let the medic (aka scrub) pick you up, then shoot you again
roblox098 Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 18	Posted - 2014.09.21 18:20:00 - [125] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: the ADS is getting a price drop in the next hotfix. Is the sky going to be filled with OP players? Is the Afterburner OP? When AV meets ADS where lies the balance? Let me get the conversation started. Also... Vote Judge I already voted judge, #1 choice. me too My corp : 4th best Dream corp : NS Best Corp : NS


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