|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2521
   |
Posted - 2014.07.16 17:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
the ADS is getting a price drop in the next hotfix. Is the sky going to be filled with OP players? Is the Afterburner OP? When AV meets ADS where lies the balance?
Let me get the conversation started.
Also... Vote Judge
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2525
|
Posted - 2014.07.16 18:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
taxi bastard wrote:if dropships prices drop - then the AB needs to be nerfed so that they can't outrun swarms as soon as they switch it on
If a dropship cannot outrun a swarm fired at it, then it serves no purpose. If fired; swarms hit. we no longer need swarm tracking or speed. Scouts can outrun heavies. Any infantry player can run round a corner. In the sky there are no corners. Are we not allowed to evade? If not then how do we survive? It's tank or run. Deny us the AB and as we cannot tank, as I show, and we cannot run, then Dropships become non viable.
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2533
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 19:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
843-Vika wrote: I watched his video and most of it was his explain/QQ about how as an ADS pilot you cant see AV players because of rendering issues, not saying he is wrong.
You say I QQ, unfairly I think. Do you think the issues I showed and the problems they cause are really a QQ, or a legitimate and fair representation of what actually happens?
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2533
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 20:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't think there was any QQ. My point was that we need to consider the render issues and the other factors like AB speed when we look at balance. I didn't say buff ADS, or nerf AV. I just tried to show AV the issues we face. I think it is a problem that a forge hits me and I get no hit indicator, no projectile.. nothing. Is that a QQ? I think not.
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2534
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 20:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lynn. Your reply has nothing at all to do with the video, the topic or the discussion so far.
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2534
|
Posted - 2014.07.17 20:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Guiltless D667 wrote:How about on coming AV projectile tracking on your radar for on coming misses/rails and a some sound alerting your taking fire to indicate youve been damage? Simple yet effective.
CCP might want to expand the radar for dropships as well compared to infantry if it isn't already.
I'm not sure we can so this sort of thing within the current hotfix model. Better passive sacs would be a start. The would even the field a bit. I see you. You see me.. then we can decide on balance and make it fun for all.
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2538
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 08:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:.... I think he was trying to show us the issues he deals with as a pilot......Clearly dropships don't have to deal with cloaked shotgun scouts popping them in the head while they are tracking their target, I don't think the video was meant to address all the issues regarding dropship/AV balance.
I was pointing out that before we can adjust missile speed, forge range or damage, we have to establish the rules of the engagement. Scouts often cloak and run mid fire fight. I often see a scout drop a remote, cloak up and run out of danger. Any infantry player can duck into cover. We could set swarm damage high enough that 1 volley will kill a dropship. That's no problem. In that case though we need to give pilots the ability to deal with such a potent threat. Flares, lock warning etc.
In DUST crap rendering is here to stay and limited to no client updates means we cannot do this. We need to look at both sides, what they face as they fight, and tweak it so its a fun fight.
I play also as a maxed out Proto minmando with prof 5 and Proto swarms. I know both sides very well. I have fought for changes to swarms to make them stronger several times. Re-watch the videos I did on that if you want to see my views from the other side.
I die to infantry more than dropships when I swarm. Its hard to defend yourself when you are pointing at the sky. Is the issue more about giving swarms better tools against ground attack or better defense from air attack? For example make swarms have very short lock on so they can fire then quickly get back to defending themselves from infantry, but balance that with less missiles..or much faster weapon switch speed, better passive scan when holding a swarm, special swarm only side arms....just a made-up examples to show we need to adjust the tools to fit the battlefield CCP places us on. Missile speed and damage are not the only things to look at. THIS was my point.
When these two sides fight what makes you scream BS! down the mic? What makes you feel the game is unfair.? Lets look at those things too.
I did not mention buffs or nerfs at all in the video. I said it was for the non pilots. Those that do not fly are commenting on swarms and forges in other threads, but they are not aware of the challenges the pilot faces. I do not expect AV players to try flying. We cannot all have the SP for that, or the interest. What I CAN do is show you what we face and ask you to keep it in mind. This is what I have done.
If you see an AV player who does not understand the pilots view, point him here. then the discussion can continue with both sides being able to make more informed decisions
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2540
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 13:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:I watched the video and I see that you have bad spatial awareness...
You are mistaken.
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2540
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 14:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Jack McReady wrote:I watched the video and I see that you have bad spatial awareness... You are mistaken. there is a little secret that spatial awareness scrubs like you do not understand, you are looking on the roof from a ~60 degree angle. I painted it for you on the screenshot http://snag.gy/L69O6.jpg thus even you would understand. so in short, you are mistaken. he fired straight up after lock while covering close to the wall, even the smokes of the missiles are coming from behind the cover. it is all in your video.
Okay. Ill show you a video of the section before your screen shot more closely. I do analyse this stuff frame by frame in close up before I say what is happening. The "scrubs like you" comment and "even you would understand" are not helpful to anyone by the way.
Jimmy Slapnuts wrote:
I don't believe that he is...........You blame this on rendering, but clearly this is simply an issue of the Swarm player using cover to his advantage..........but this one just seems a little sloppy and biased, IMO.
I think I was right.
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2540
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 14:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jimmy. Did you watch the new segment I linked to? That was his first volly. You can see him render from that spot as he fires for less than a second. 8 frames i think.
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
|
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2540
|
Posted - 2014.07.18 15:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
The new video shows him standing there in the middle as he fires. then he de-renders. it can't be clearer than that. Also you can see the second swarmer on the hives shooting down over the edge.
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2564
|
Posted - 2014.07.21 20:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nevyn Tazinas wrote: As AV I have no clue what direction that ADS I can hear is in.
This was talked about way back as part i think of a dev blog about sound design. There was talk of fixing it, but it never happened. When I am swarming, it drives me nuts that the ADS sound seems to come from everywhere. In case you didn't know, as a pilot we can most times here the direction a swarm is firedfrom.
Further up (long thread now so you probably missed it) I supported things like better scans when holding a swarm, etc. Not well fleshed out ideas, more about the concept. Make us both equally able to realize we are in a fight with each other.
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2573
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 10:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
I see a few comments about increasing swarm speed and reducing AB speed and/or cooldown. But we need to answer this question first :
What is the purpose of the Afterburner?
Remember it is a module, so takes up a slot which has the effect of considerably reducing tank. Around 900hp or so. What is it supposed to give me at the cost of that tank?
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
Judge Rhadamanthus
Amarr Templar One
2576
|
Posted - 2014.07.22 16:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:it give any ADS a extreme speed boost beyond what any AV weapon can keep up with.
It cannot out pace a forge shot or a rail turret or a rail tank turret or a missile turret, nor a missile tank turret or a small rail turret. Nor for that matter another ADS. So by no means "any" AV.
So what is the role of the AB? What should it enable a player to do when it is used in the most effective way it can be used?
For example : a breach forges when used at its most effective is to cause extreme alpha damage to its target. To do that it needs high damage per shot. When used at their most effective kin cats are to enable a player to out pace another player or to reach a target quickly. Cloaks when used at their most effective enable a player to remain un-scanned and/or unseen by an enemy.
Judge for CPM 1
Twitter @Judge_EVELegion
|
|
|
| |
|