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ACT1ON BASTARD wrote:

Nothing Certain wrote:

I support the idea of lowering ADS costs and I would like collision damage to be changed as well. Judge made an excellent video with some good points about swarm speed and the AB. It was a selective video though about one aspect and in the end we need to ask, do more Pythons die to AV'ers or more AV'ers to Pythons. We can remove the factor of player skill by asking Judge, or anyone playing both roles, this question. I am confident that the pilots are winning these engagements the majority of the time. I hear pilots complain about "almost being killed" by AV all the time. AV never complains about "almost" being killed by pilots.

The issue in my opinion is the difference in TTK between the two. Yes, the AV'er often has the first mover advantage but with a TTK approaching 15 seconds for the Python this means that even after being hit the pilot has 7-8 seconds to engage the AV'er and still leave a window for escape. With a 1-2 second TTK for the AV'er, this means the outcome is always in the pilot's hands, he either wins or escapes every time unless he chooses to overstay. So how do we make it so that the TTK is a little more even without tipping the scales entirely the other direction? How do we factor in the ridiculous regen the Python exhibits which negates all previous actions done by an AV'er in a matter of seconds?

You cant factor out a players skill. A good forger will take me out a bad one wont, simple so get your skill up not you but anyone complaining about dropships being op.


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Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 960	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:00:00 - [1] - Quote I support the idea of lowering ADS costs and I would like collision damage to be changed as well. Judge made an excellent video with some good points about swarm speed and the AB. It was a selective video though about one aspect and in the end we need to ask, do more Pythons die to AV'ers or more AV'ers to Pythons. We can remove the factor of player skill by asking Judge, or anyone playing both roles, this question. I am confident that the pilots are winning these engagements the majority of the time. I hear pilots complain about "almost being killed" by AV all the time. AV never complains about "almost" being killed by pilots. The issue in my opinion is the difference in TTK between the two. Yes, the AV'er often has the first mover advantage but with a TTK approaching 15 seconds for the Python this means that even after being hit the pilot has 7-8 seconds to engage the AV'er and still leave a window for escape. With a 1-2 second TTK for the AV'er, this means the outcome is always in the pilot's hands, he either wins or escapes every time unless he chooses to overstay. So how do we make it so that the TTK is a little more even without tipping the scales entirely the other direction? How do we factor in the ridiculous regen the Python exhibits which negates all previous actions done by an AV'er in a matter of seconds? Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 960	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:04:00 - [2] - Quote On a side note, the video also demonstrated the stupidity of the jumping scouts. They can jump 8 ft. high and 20 meters long, being able to jump out of sight frame and close into shotgun distance with one leap. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 961	Posted - 2014.07.16 23:11:00 - [3] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: I support the idea of lowering ADS costs and I would like collision damage to be changed as well. Judge made an excellent video with some good points about swarm speed and the AB. It was a selective video though about one aspect and in the end we need to ask, do more Pythons die to AV'ers or more AV'ers to Pythons. We can remove the factor of player skill by asking Judge, or anyone playing both roles, this question. I am confident that the pilots are winning these engagements the majority of the time. I hear pilots complain about "almost being killed" by AV all the time. AV never complains about "almost" being killed by pilots. The issue in my opinion is the difference in TTK between the two. Yes, the AV'er often has the first mover advantage but with a TTK approaching 15 seconds for the Python this means that even after being hit the pilot has 7-8 seconds to engage the AV'er and still leave a window for escape. With a 1-2 second TTK for the AV'er, this means the outcome is always in the pilot's hands, he either wins or escapes every time unless he chooses to overstay. So how do we make it so that the TTK is a little more even without tipping the scales entirely the other direction? How do we factor in the ridiculous regen the Python exhibits which negates all previous actions done by an AV'er in a matter of seconds? You cant factor out a players skill. A good forger will take me out a bad one wont, simple so get your skill up not you but anyone complaining about dropships being op. I'm not sure you understood my post. If Player A plays using a Python half the time and using AV half the time, in which does he die more often? In which does he kill more often? If money was on the line and they played against themselves would they choose to be a pilot or an AV'er? We have players that do both, so skill isn't the differentiating factor for them. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 961	Posted - 2014.07.16 23:16:00 - [4] - Quote I'll state it again though, if no changes are made to the Python besides cost I probably won't complain. Let's see if more people fly them and if it is the ship or the pilots who make it so hard to kill them. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 969	Posted - 2014.07.18 07:04:00 - [5] - Quote I don't think he was trying to point out the issues for both sides or be unbiased. I think he was trying to show us the issues he deals with as a pilot. I like seeing it, I don't fly and I want balance fir both sides. Clearly dropships don't have to deal with cloaked shotgun scouts popping them in the head while they are tracking their target, I don't think the video was meant to address all the issues regarding dropship/AV balance. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 969	Posted - 2014.07.18 07:07:00 - [6] - Quote I will say that it was a very weak argument saying infantry knows where a shot is coming from and can avoid it. We deal with the same issues as he does on that front. I forge gun people all the time, they not only have no warning, all they see is "BLAP", what OHK's a Python that way? Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 980	Posted - 2014.07.21 07:29:00 - [7] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Actually I heard something yesterday that completely revised my opinion on this topic. Mina Longstrike was discussion ADS with us and said (roughly)..... "The reason they are so fast is that they need to be, otherwise they cannot survive, the reason they choose to run and not to engage is because often times they cannot adapt to the new threat on the fly, pun intended. Its not that they are too fast its that they can use afterburners too often......" Which basically now surmises my opinions on the matter. ADS don't need more EHP and they don't need too be slower. Many are saying to nerf the AB cooldown. I personally don't understand how that fixes the problem but with several people saying it who usually have good opinions, it should be on the table. Because, that's why.