it is possible

It would do your Cal Mediums a LOT BETTER to change THEIR BASIC DROPSUIT VALUES, not the modules in general.

I am AGREEING WITH YOU, just in a different way. Stop raging and QQing.

Hi, we are back with numbers here, we are aiming for tweaks as the bonuses are mostly % based, so stacking can lead to invincible suits.

Numbers

Caldari assault should have the same shields delays of an heavy. 1 sec of depleted shield delay is more usefull to Assault IMO.

Hi, we are back with numbers here, we are aiming for tweaks as the bonuses are mostly % based, so stacking can lead to invincible suits.

Numbers

Quick feedback of the new regulator numbers:

While the buff to 25% and 30% is great, it still isn't enough of a gap to use proto over advanced, especially when you consider the fact that they also have a stacking penalty. This also makes advanced a lot better than standard too.

To summarize, we want to create a decent gap between advanced and proto without making standard too powerful compared to advanced, and prototype not able to reduce your recharge rate to game breaking levels.

Here's a few solutions:

15, 20, 30
-This I feel works best as you still get a good step up using multiple modules, and is the same ratio as the new shield values

10, 20, 30
-Probably the most balanced, and my personal favorite (10% at basic makes it easy for new players to imagine the effects, 10% of 5 seconds is obviously 0.5 seconds, 20% and 30% is double and triple respectively, so double 0.5 seconds...easy mental math), but I'm guessing most players want more of a buff than just 5% at proto)

15, 25, 35
-Makes prototype the semi-obvious choice, keeps standard and advanced from being useless and encourages multiple module use. Biggest problem is the 35...

See, even with stacking penalties 30 is technically possible to remove your shield delay altogether by using 4 modules...but anyone using 4 is sacrificing a lot of fitting options to do so. Unfortunately 35% makes it possible to remove the shield delay at only 3 modules (for easy calculations see this).

idk, this is pretty difficult.

Would it be possible to add regulator variants? Like one that reduces depleted delay more but gives no bonus to regular delay, and one that reduces regular delay more but doesn't effect depleted delay?

Edit: The problem is that adding a 5% bonus to an already far too weak module isn't going to be enough to make it worth running over an additional plate

For example: a Minmatar assault with 4 shield extenders has about a 10.2 second recharge delay (which is in itself ridiculous since it's the lowest eHP assault suit in the game). Throwing on a current prototype regulator will reduce that to 7.6 seconds to wait while bullets are raining all around you and missiles are falling from the sky. Waiting that long before your shields START to recover, not before they ARE recovered. With this new bonus, instead we'll be waiting 7.1 seconds for our shields to START coming back.

You just saved me 0.5 seconds on a 7+ second wait...... thanks. That might be enough to save me.... 3% of the time.

I don't know how well you know your Minmatar suits, but that means we have 168 (at max armor passive skill) to keep us alive until our shields begin to regen, and that's if you don't take any fall damage, get clipped by a vehicle, or get grazed by a stray bullet in the meantime. 1-6 bullets from just about any weapon is enough to kill that, and I don't know if you've noticed but our guns shoot a lot of bullets really fast.

So tell me why, with this minuscule wait time increase, would I not be more inclined to simply throw on a plate? At least then I'd have the health to run away once my shields went down. With this low eHP, I'd be better off having at least one plate to give me the health to run when necessary as opposed to dying while hiding and hoping my shields come back before the guy that shot my shields off decides to come play peek-a-boo around whatever cover I'm using.

I disagree because Cal Sentinel is really good. Going too crazy on shield regen ability will make it OP.

Instead you should change the base values of Caldari mediums and probably Calmando as well.

Quick feedback of the new regulator numbers:

While the buff to 25% and 30% is great, it still isn't enough of a gap to use proto over advanced, especially when you consider the fact that they also have a stacking penalty. This also makes advanced a lot better than standard too.

To summarize, we want to create a decent gap between advanced and proto without making standard too powerful compared to advanced, and prototype not able to reduce your recharge rate to game breaking levels.

Here's a few solutions:

15, 20, 30
-This I feel works best as you still get a good step up using multiple modules, and is the same ratio as the new shield values

10, 20, 30
-Probably the most balanced, and my personal favorite (10% at basic makes it easy for new players to imagine the effects, 10% of 5 seconds is obviously 0.5 seconds, 20% and 30% is double and triple respectively, so double 0.5 seconds...easy mental math), but I'm guessing most players want more of a buff than just 5% at proto)

15, 25, 35
-Makes prototype the semi-obvious choice, keeps standard and advanced from being useless and encourages multiple module use. Biggest problem is the 35...

See, even with stacking penalties 30 is technically possible to remove your shield delay altogether by using 4 modules...but anyone using 4 is sacrificing a lot of fitting options to do so. Unfortunately 35% makes it possible to remove the shield delay at only 3 modules (for easy calculations see this).

idk, this is pretty difficult.

Sorry if this have been said before, but a rework to shield tanking should start with the suits stats. The really important stats when considering shield tanking are shield recharge rate, shield recharge delay and shield depleted delay. Those stats vary wildly between shield tanking suits, even in the same race.


The shield tanking stats of a Caldari scout or heavy are much, much better than the ones from a Caldari logi or assault, and a dream to a Minmatar assault. Due to that it is very difficult to propose changes to shield modules, because if we make them reasonable to say, for example, the Caldari scout, they will probably be worthless for a Caldari Logi or a Min assault. And if we make them good enough for the Min Assault, then they will be OP in a Caldari Heavy or Scout.


So my 2 cents is that the shield tanking rework should start at equalizing a little more the related base stats of the shield tanking suits, and with that I mean buffing the base stats of the Cal assault/logi and to a lesser extent, the Min suits. Only after that it would be reasonable to start talking about modules.


So if you have in mind any future changes to the base stats of any suit, and you could share them with us, it would make for a more fruitful discussion.


If you don't want to do that, I don't dare to throw numbers here, apart from suggesting to lower strongly the shield regulator fitting requirements.

---

TL;DR

We should be talking about buffing the base stats (recharge rate, delay, depleted delay) of the weaker shield tanking suits, before starting to talk about modules.

I know I'm taking liberty with your lack of specificity here, but since this is a thread on shield tanking here is a link to my thoughts on Caldari vs Minmatar shield tanking as it pertains to Assault Suits. Ya know, for when you guys get to that point.

I'll use you as my example of why shield tanking is done wrong by players. You only needed enough shield hp to absorb whatever blast hit you. What's your shield delay? Extenders don't penalize your normal shield delay. If you hadn't let your shields drop to zero you actually would've only had to wait maybe 5 seconds. I think that's too long and should be shortened. But It's my belief that anyone who stacks that much shield hp and still manage to let their shield drop to zero deserves to die.

I have 5 high slots. Should I be leaving them empty? Damage mods are useless, my passives pick up any non-damped suits and anyone who IS damped is going to be beyond anything less than 2 precision enhancers. Putting on less shields means my shields get depleted fully SOONER, and I even though shield HP is the high end of the HP pool on my suit even before mods, I only have 37.4 more base shields than Amarr or Gallente and 75 less than a Caldari while having less armor than anyone (base 135). To top that off, I already have to run a recharger or energizer in one of my highs in order to keep my recharge speed up with the Caldari's base recharge stats; and even with just 2 shield extenders fitted, a Complex regulator wont keep my depleted delay up with a Caldari assault's base depleted delay stats. (You know the Caldari right? The ones who are supposed to TANK shields and not BUFFER TANK them?)

So tell me, when running my 2 shield extenders (keeping my shield health equal to a Caldari assault with one extender on), just to keep my depleted delay ALMOST as low as a Caldari assault's depleted delay when I have a COMPLEX regulator on, how should I run my suit to keep my HP above that of a scout so I can survive? You know, the guys that can run faster than me, strafe faster than me, don't show on my radar, and can passively see me on theirs? What do you suggest? Armor plate? Oh wait, we're trying to FIX that problem, aren't we....

Could you please edit the spreadsheet so that we see the actual rate of fire changes instead of the silly numbers where i have to do the math by myself? For example the rate of fire with the assault rifle. In the spreadsheet its listed that we currently have a fire interval of 0.08 and the proposed change is 0.075. For those who dont understand it i teach you now what this actually means:

weapon stats are allways rounds per minute (rpm) and a minute has 60 secs (duh). So all you have to do is to devide 1 minute with that number in the spreadsheet. For the assault rifle it looks like this:

60/0,08= 750 RPM (thats what the stats ingame will tell you)
60/0,075= 800 RPM (thats the proposed change)

So you see the assault rifle gets a +50 RPM buff but to figure that out i had to run maths. Not every simpleton here has the patience to do that. So instead of posting random numbers i would like to see that you show the ingame stats which makes our all life much easier.

you just explained why minmatar are guerrilla warfare specialists. this is why the combat rifle does so much damage. combined with minmatar speed you get in fast, blast your target and leave before anyone can do anything about it. then you do it again to someone else. minmatar dont do slug matches. they are hit and run. more so than caldari. their stats are designed purposely so they cant stand toe to toe with anyone. theyre designed to force you into the hit and run play style

No, I just described why Minmatar SHOULD be hit-and-run specialists.

The Minmatar scout is a great hit-and-run suit because of it's native scans and damps combined with it's spectacular speed and balanced slot loadout.

The Minmatar assault is not fast enough to be able to get the run part of "hit-and-run" down since every scout that's not completely loaded down with plates and any assault with a single basic kincat can keep up with. There is not enough good cover in this game to bounce from cover to cover avoiding gunfire. It has no bonus to scans or damps so even if you do run you are 75% of the time just picked off by a scout who saw what you were doing and got ahead of you. With 3 complex precision enhancers this suit cannot scan a scout with a single damp on (3 complex puts my scan at 26.35db, scout with 1 proto damp = 23.63), so that increases the % of people I can scan over no precision enhancers by about 3% since my maxed passives already pick up anyone not a scout or damped, so that's useless. I can't Damp tank to avoid scanners or scout passives since I only have 2 lows, one always held by a regulator. And since my ability to recover from damage is worse than anyone's, my suit fails at recovering in a pinch.

So, basically all the things that could be used to put together a great hit-and-run class the Minmatar either fails at miserably or attempts but falls short of.

No, sir, YOU are the one who has no clue what he is speaking of.

Wow, some of you should really just stop posting in feedback as it's clear that you don't know how to properly play the game. The only issue with Minmatar lies with the heavy variant as it doesn't have outstanding abilities like the medium/light racial bonuses, all it has is a decent stamina recovery. Shield rechargers/energizers are not in need of tweaks, the bonus is good enough and if you can't fit it USE A CPU UPGRADE. As suggested in a different thread, shield regulators should be changed to a 20/30/40 progression while adding a new variant that does the following:

STD - 10% reduction to delay and 5% increase to base shields.
ADV - 20% reduction to delay and 10% increase to base shields.
PRO - 25% reduction to delay and 15% increase to base shields.

With that we have one variant that is useful when frequently taking damage and another that gives some HP but with a slightly longer wait time to recover it.

No, I just described why Minmatar SHOULD be hit-and-run specialists.

The Minmatar scout is a great hit-and-run suit because of it's native scans and damps combined with it's spectacular speed and balanced slot loadout.

The Minmatar assault is not fast enough to be able to get the run part of "hit-and-run" down since every scout that's not completely loaded down with plates and any assault with a single basic kincat can keep up with. There is not enough good cover in this game to bounce from cover to cover avoiding gunfire. It has no bonus to scans or damps so even if you do run you are 75% of the time just picked off by a scout who saw what you were doing and got ahead of you. With 3 complex precision enhancers this suit cannot scan a scout with a single damp on (3 complex puts my scan at 26.35db, scout with 1 proto damp = 23.63), so that increases the % of people I can scan over no precision enhancers by about 3% since my maxed passives already pick up anyone not a scout or damped, so that's useless. I can't Damp tank to avoid scanners or scout passives since I only have 2 lows, one always held by a regulator. And since my ability to recover from damage is worse than anyone's, my suit fails at recovering in a pinch.

So, basically all the things that could be used to put together a great hit-and-run class the Minmatar either fails at miserably or attempts but falls short of.

No, sir, YOU are the one who has no clue what he is speaking of.

so youre not using complex kincats? i dont need cover just kill, run and flank the next target.

you dont need scanners and you dont need defense really. just focus on speed and firepower. thats it and use damage mods. i just did a match (lost it) but i went 17/6 in milita medium frame lol. dont tell me idk how to hit and run. i just did without any problems and died 3 times in it. i hack a point, left, came back and killed three guys counter hacking ran away, and came back killed a dude as he was being revived, then killed the guy who revived him, then a heavy caldari after that.

i dont even run minmatar and know how they work lol

1 complex extender

1 enhanced recharger

1 enhanced damage mod

std combat rifle

std smg

compact nanohive

Wow, some of you should really just stop posting in feedback as it's clear you refuse to accept that everyone has different viewpoints on the same playstyles to share. You know, that thing we call "Feedback". And I must have missed the part where someone was complaining about being able to fit modules.

On Topic - If you were to put in this variant you would be adding a low module that adds shield HP. Would it not make sense to move reactive plates to a high slot so that armor to even things out in that respect? Reactives are about as close to regulators as armor modules get, and it would give armor fits something useful apart from shields to throw in their high slots. Thoughts?