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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2254	Posted - 2014.06.09 08:37:00 - [1] - Quote As announced, we want to tweak all aspects of shield tanking so it becomes viable. I don't foresee any boosting of Extender hp, but their progression is up for discussion. However, we really want regulators and rechargers to be competitive choices to Armor. Most anything is on the table, PG/CPU, recharge delay, depleted recharge delay, recharge rates etc. Even CPU upgrades to get more CPU for those hard to fit regulators. Your proposals must be tweaks, nothing game altering and have to be focused on fixing shield tanking, without making hybrid tanking an even better choice. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2014.06.09 08:44:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As announced, we want to tweak all aspects of shield tanking so it becomes viable. I don't foresee any boosting of Extender hp, but their progression is up for discussion. However, we really want regulators and rechargers to be competitive choices to Armor. Most anything is on the table, PG/CPU, recharge delay, depleted recharge delay, recharge rates etc. Even CPU upgrades to get more CPU for those hard to fit regulators. Your proposals must be tweaks, nothing game altering and have to be focused on fixing shield tanking, without making hybrid tanking an even better choice. Less cpu on energizers and rechargers, especially complex Regulator buff by at least 70% Less depleted delays on caldari and minmatar suits, and less regukar delay, those 2 up for discussion. Jerrmy12 Banned, reason, hotfix alpha thread. No joke, the reason was a devs first post, I was linked to the first post.
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 502	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:02:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As announced, we want to tweak all aspects of shield tanking so it becomes viable. I don't foresee any boosting of Extender hp, but their progression is up for discussion. However, we really want regulators and rechargers to be competitive choices to Armor. Most anything is on the table, PG/CPU, recharge delay, depleted recharge delay, recharge rates etc. Even CPU upgrades to get more CPU for those hard to fit regulators. Your proposals must be tweaks, nothing game altering and have to be focused on fixing shield tanking, without making hybrid tanking an even better choice. proto regulators should be around 75% or 80% (so they can stack shields with the shield recharge penalty holding no bearing) 1 thing that has always annoyed me iabout shields, is how little the shield rechargers add to your gross recharge rate in the end. Sums up to a wasted slot. The Energizers are much more what I expected the rechargers to be. Support Assault changes
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 316	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:10:00 - [4] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As announced, we want to tweak all aspects of shield tanking so it becomes viable. I don't foresee any boosting of Extender hp, but their progression is up for discussion. However, we really want regulators and rechargers to be competitive choices to Armor. Most anything is on the table, PG/CPU, recharge delay, depleted recharge delay, recharge rates etc. Even CPU upgrades to get more CPU for those hard to fit regulators. Your proposals must be tweaks, nothing game altering and have to be focused on fixing shield tanking, without making hybrid tanking an even better choice. Less cpu on energizers and rechargers, especially complex Regulator buff by at least 70% Less depleted delays on caldari and minmatar suits, and less regukar delay, those 2 up for discussion. do you know what increasing complex regulators to 30% even looks like? if you ran two of them your shield delay would be 2.39 seconds. anything higher and youre delay will be dipping under two seconds. a 40% regulator will have you just a tad over one second. thats stupid considering that you can get a shield recharge of 70 hp/s with 1 complex energizer and 1 complex recharger on the caldari assault suits. i suggest that adding the shield damage threshold that tanks use to dropsuits. nothing crazy, but if high enough it'd be possible to use long ranges to lower incoming damage to under the threshold. at this point, your shields recharge uninterrupted and you essentially take no damage. short range weapons like plasma rifles and combat rifle (outside of their optimal ranges) become useless at long range. then the two tanking styles become more clearly defined where armor should be taken out from long range and shields should be taken out at close range.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 316	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:12:00 - [5] - Quote Spartan MK420 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As announced, we want to tweak all aspects of shield tanking so it becomes viable. I don't foresee any boosting of Extender hp, but their progression is up for discussion. However, we really want regulators and rechargers to be competitive choices to Armor. Most anything is on the table, PG/CPU, recharge delay, depleted recharge delay, recharge rates etc. Even CPU upgrades to get more CPU for those hard to fit regulators. Your proposals must be tweaks, nothing game altering and have to be focused on fixing shield tanking, without making hybrid tanking an even better choice. proto regulators should be around 75% or 80% (so they can stack shields with the shield recharge penalty holding no bearing) 1 thing that has always annoyed me iabout shields, is how little the shield rechargers add to your gross recharge rate in the end. Sums up to a wasted slot. The Energizers are much more what I expected the rechargers to be. yea except energizers nerf you shield hp by a ton. you also cant have regulators that high. youd have normal shield delays thatd be less than 1 second lol
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3359	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:16:00 - [6] - Quote I think we can all agree enhanced need to be at 44 not 33. I just never run enhanced over running a basic unless there's absolutely nowhere else to use that pg/cpu. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5999	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:19:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As announced, we want to tweak all aspects of shield tanking so it becomes viable. I don't foresee any boosting of Extender hp, but their progression is up for discussion. However, we really want regulators and rechargers to be competitive choices to Armor. Most anything is on the table, PG/CPU, recharge delay, depleted recharge delay, recharge rates etc. Even CPU upgrades to get more CPU for those hard to fit regulators. Your proposals must be tweaks, nothing game altering and have to be focused on fixing shield tanking, without making hybrid tanking an even better choice. As has been previously discussed, I think the optimal levels for Regulators are: STD: 20% ENHANCED: 30% COMPLEX: 40% This gives a good power boost while covering some of the penalty that Shield Extenders provide, giving a lot of encouragement and incentive to use them over armor plates (that is, unless you intend to change the penalty). Shield Extenders themselves could probably use a little bit of a reduction in the PG/CPU (not much) in order to compensate for the fact that armor plating is just so darn easy to fit now (you get more benefit from Ferroscales at less CPU/PG cost atm). If at all possible, change the Shield Extenders to have a better progression. 33/44/66 is the common proposal, if I'm not mistaken. Don't really know enough about Rechargers/Energizers to comment. I'll let others weigh in on that. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:19:00 - [8] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Spartan MK420 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As announced, we want to tweak all aspects of shield tanking so it becomes viable. I don't foresee any boosting of Extender hp, but their progression is up for discussion. However, we really want regulators and rechargers to be competitive choices to Armor. Most anything is on the table, PG/CPU, recharge delay, depleted recharge delay, recharge rates etc. Even CPU upgrades to get more CPU for those hard to fit regulators. Your proposals must be tweaks, nothing game altering and have to be focused on fixing shield tanking, without making hybrid tanking an even better choice. proto regulators should be around 75% or 80% (so they can stack shields with the shield recharge penalty holding no bearing) 1 thing that has always annoyed me iabout shields, is how little the shield rechargers add to your gross recharge rate in the end. Sums up to a wasted slot. The Energizers are much more what I expected the rechargers to be. yea except energizers nerf you shield hp by a ton. you also cant have regulators that high. youd have normal shield delays thatd be less than 1 second lol That would mean PURE shields would have use in pc, and people would stop using armor on shield suits. Jerrmy12 Banned, reason, hotfix alpha thread. No joke, the reason was a devs first post, I was linked to the first post.
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 821	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:26:00 - [9] - Quote Reduce the cpu cost of rechargers by 25-45% minimal. Increase regulator by 5% all levels. Decrease delay of extenders by 50-75%. Increase rechargers rate to energizers (minus the penalty),and increase the energizers rate even higher...possibly 90% at Pro increase penalty by 1% per level. Shields cost too much for there to be a delay of greater than 1.5 seconds. Armor is favored because it's cheap and effective and lasts longer. Becoming a Min logi in 1.8 taught me all those harsh lessons,coming from Gal logi. The amount extenders give is pitiful compared to the delay,66 for less recharge in-fight time? or 100+ armor for 5% travel speed. Hmmm,choices,choices.
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 502	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:27:00 - [10] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Spartan MK420 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As announced, we want to tweak all aspects of shield tanking so it becomes viable. I don't foresee any boosting of Extender hp, but their progression is up for discussion. However, we really want regulators and rechargers to be competitive choices to Armor. Most anything is on the table, PG/CPU, recharge delay, depleted recharge delay, recharge rates etc. Even CPU upgrades to get more CPU for those hard to fit regulators. Your proposals must be tweaks, nothing game altering and have to be focused on fixing shield tanking, without making hybrid tanking an even better choice. proto regulators should be around 75% or 80% (so they can stack shields with the shield recharge penalty holding no bearing) 1 thing that has always annoyed me iabout shields, is how little the shield rechargers add to your gross recharge rate in the end. Sums up to a wasted slot. The Energizers are much more what I expected the rechargers to be. yea except energizers nerf you shield hp by a ton. you also cant have regulators that high. youd have normal shield delays thatd be less than 1 second lol I don't do math :P. That's just my way of saying it needs buffed to be worthy of using a low slot. It's pretty much like how the armor rep was redundant for armor tankers, it just wasn't worth losing the extra hp from an extra plate, it just used up all your cpu for 7.5 hp/s when you're suit ran 600-700 armor. Support Assault changes

shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2239	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:27:00 - [11] - Quote I agree with Kagehoshi, nothing to add on his view of shield tanking. PSN: ogamega Never f* with a Galdari.
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3360	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:34:00 - [12] - Quote I think instead of throwing out arbitrary numbers for the rechargers and regulators we need to theorycraft what it would mean and then contrast the theorycrafted fits stats vs the hybrid tank. The point needs to be that rechargers need to compete against the tank offered by an extender. Meaning 72 hp on a complex extender needs to be viably weighed against the rechargers value. Same with regulator's vs the kin kats or tank or reppers offered by low slots. I will theorycraft some fits and get back to you. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
DAMIOS82 warravens Final Resolution. 125	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:35:00 - [13] - Quote Lower PG of complex shield mods or a skill with a better percentage to lower it. For instance i have my gunloggi, i have 1 complex CPU, 1 complex PG, 1 complex heavy shield booster, 1 complex Shield Hardeners and 1 advanced shield Extender. Why not complex well because dispite the fact that i also have my skills at level 5, with Optimization at 3 (which only effects cpu), i do not seem to be able to fit this freeking module. Even with my turret skills at 5 and Optimization at 3 it still won't fit. The remaining 2 lvls won't have much effect towards the pg it's only like a 2% increase which is not enough. So lower the PG on the module, it doesn't matter if i need lvl 5 with all skills, but i would like to fit my modules as i see fit. You know like before you's messed hav all up after 1.7. Same goes for armor tanking, only then reversed. There's no problem PG wise, but CPU wise o'boy. Despite skill levels and complex CPU. So i suggest decreasing the PG/CPU levels on modules or better yet giving a skill that does this. So that when i do have level 5 of everything whatever module i fit won't be to much of a problem. OW and before you say shield tanking meant for infantry. Well shield tanking is shield tanking.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 318	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:41:00 - [14] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Spartan MK420 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As announced, we want to tweak all aspects of shield tanking so it becomes viable. I don't foresee any boosting of Extender hp, but their progression is up for discussion. However, we really want regulators and rechargers to be competitive choices to Armor. Most anything is on the table, PG/CPU, recharge delay, depleted recharge delay, recharge rates etc. Even CPU upgrades to get more CPU for those hard to fit regulators. Your proposals must be tweaks, nothing game altering and have to be focused on fixing shield tanking, without making hybrid tanking an even better choice. proto regulators should be around 75% or 80% (so they can stack shields with the shield recharge penalty holding no bearing) 1 thing that has always annoyed me iabout shields, is how little the shield rechargers add to your gross recharge rate in the end. Sums up to a wasted slot. The Energizers are much more what I expected the rechargers to be. yea except energizers nerf you shield hp by a ton. you also cant have regulators that high. youd have normal shield delays thatd be less than 1 second lol That would mean PURE shields would have use in pc, and people would stop using armor on shield suits. ok then, buff regulators in two separate parts. buff the "shield delay" to 30% and then the "depleted shield delay" to what ever we need to offset stacking shield extenders. but reducing the shield delay by 75% per module (not including stacking penalties) is insane
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 567	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:56:00 - [15] - Quote I see two issues: - There is no synergy between low- and high-slot modules for one tanking type. The only exception are regulators. I can't see how to fix this without redoing modules completely. - You generally have enough fitting resources to fit both a shield and an armor tank. (Thanks to basic armor plates, even after hotfix alpha.) Here's a proposal for a set of changes: 1. Make shield extender progression 44 -> 55 -> 66 hp and change fitting requirements accordingly. 2. Basic armor plates receive a further increase in fitting requirements. We need to arrive at a situation where you can't stack 3 shield extenders and 3 armor plates because you'd run out of resources. You should focus on your 3 shield extenders or 3 armor plates and try to increase their effectiveness with utility-modules in the remaining slots.
Joseph Ridgeson warravens Final Resolution. 1979	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:57:00 - [16] - Quote Most people will say that Complex Extenders are fairly decent in the amount of HP they give. However, the LUDICROUS scaling AND fitting cost is what makes them flat out worse than Plates. 22->33->66 makes Extenders "use Complex or do not bother." Basic and Advanced need to be made higher while Complex remains the same. The fitting cost is another issue that really should have been fixed from the beginning. 18/3, 36/6, and 54/11 means that a Plate is pretty much easier to fit across the board. Every Assault suit basically goes 5 CPU for 1 PG so something cost twice as much CPU and only saving 1 PG is, well, bloody terrible. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 1596	Posted - 2014.06.09 10:02:00 - [17] - Quote Regulators are in a really comfortable place PG/CPU-wise, but Energizers, Rechargers & Extenders are all terrible. Energizer's CPU should scale about the same as the Rechargers do currently and Rechargers should be at about half their current CPU costs. Rechargers and energizers need a bigger bump. When you're a Minmatar assault and you ONLY have shields due to your 5/2 module loadout, waiting 5 seconds on your delay and then waiting another 10 for your shields to replenish is an eternity. I'm thinking 25/45/65 for Rechargers and 45/75/95 for Energizers Regulators should have a much higher percentage increase (more along the lines of 35/55/75) because getting your shields back in an intense firefight means the world when you shield tank and no logi in the world can help you with that. Extenders CPU/PG is kinda jacked up too. I'm thinking something along the lines of 15/1, 30/3, 50/5. Others have discussed the HP scaling in detail, so I'll leave it at that. ^My Shield Christmas Wish List. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 1596	Posted - 2014.06.09 10:07:00 - [18] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: duster 35000 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Spartan MK420 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As announced, we want to tweak all aspects of shield tanking so it becomes viable. I don't foresee any boosting of Extender hp, but their progression is up for discussion. However, we really want regulators and rechargers to be competitive choices to Armor. Most anything is on the table, PG/CPU, recharge delay, depleted recharge delay, recharge rates etc. Even CPU upgrades to get more CPU for those hard to fit regulators. Your proposals must be tweaks, nothing game altering and have to be focused on fixing shield tanking, without making hybrid tanking an even better choice. proto regulators should be around 75% or 80% (so they can stack shields with the shield recharge penalty holding no bearing) 1 thing that has always annoyed me iabout shields, is how little the shield rechargers add to your gross recharge rate in the end. Sums up to a wasted slot. The Energizers are much more what I expected the rechargers to be. yea except energizers nerf you shield hp by a ton. you also cant have regulators that high. youd have normal shield delays thatd be less than 1 second lol That would mean PURE shields would have use in pc, and people would stop using armor on shield suits. ok then, buff regulators in two separate parts. buff the "shield delay" to 30% and then the "depleted shield delay" to what ever we need to offset stacking shield extenders. but reducing the shield delay by 75% per module (not including stacking penalties) is insane Having a shield delay at less than a second is fine, because he had to sacrifice a plate spot in order to run his shields well. The whole idea is to make shield mods good enough that you want to use them as opposed to stacking on more HP with armor. 75% reduction accomplishes this. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1
AmlSeb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 83	Posted - 2014.06.09 10:23:00 - [19] - Quote FYI: Almost every type of tanking is completely broken The only ways tanking work are Armor buffer tanking and the Minmatar Logi+Focused Rep tool (the one with 100+ HP/sec) and Gal Sentinel combo. This reduces most incoming damage to a tankable level but still most of the time you win because you have a large enough buffer as your tank breaks when a second guy comes in. Passive Shield tanking: Does not work because we have a delay (why?) Active shield/armor tanking: No active mods Shield buffer tanking: Does not work because of low HP increase (tbh it-¦s not very effective in EVE likewise) Speed tanking: Barely works on scouts (damage should be reduced with higher speeds) Signature tanking: Nope because of signature is not involved when calculating damage Another thing is that the DPSs of all weapons exceed any tanking ability. Let-¦s take your proposed rifle changes: Even the weapon with the lowest DPS has 361 (RR) which is with a fully skilled Gal Sentinel 306 DPS. Assume every second shot hits he still does 153 DPS. A Minmatar logi can repair up to 126 DPS so your tank is still broken. The only way you survive is because you have a lot of hp and thus survive until he has to reload and you have a HMG with a lot of ammo. So you can kill him before he can kill you. To get to the topic(finally): As I propose you won-¦t add active mods or shield transporters in near future the best way to improve shield tanking is by improving passive shield tanking. Remove the shield recharge delay, shields should repair all the time Shield recharge rates should be like in EVE, fluent It should take a certain time to fully repair your shields, if you add extenders it still takes the same time -> better recharge rates The recharge rates should be better the closer you get to an empty shield The recharge rates would require a bit of tuning of course https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Passive_Shield_Tanking And most important: Reduce DPS! DPS should be at a sustainable level so you really can tank at least one enemy or maybe even two-three in a sentinel A DPS reduction by 75% for example would be fine. Damage dealing classes like Assaults should get a decent DPS bonus then so they would be able to break a tank quite easy. It would also differentiate them from other classes. First day veteran, Logi and Commander Soon a Legionnaire AmlSeb on Twitter
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3360	Posted - 2014.06.09 10:32:00 - [20] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: I see two issues: - There is no synergy between low- and high-slot modules for one tanking type. The only exception are regulators. I can't see how to fix this without redoing modules completely. - You generally have enough fitting resources to fit both a shield and an armor tank. (Thanks to basic armor plates, even after hotfix alpha.) Here's a proposal for a set of changes: 1. Make shield extender progression 44 -> 55 -> 66 hp and change fitting requirements accordingly. 2. Basic armor plates receive a further increase in fitting requirements. We need to arrive at a situation where you can't stack 3 shield extenders and 3 armor plates because you'd run out of resources. You should focus on your 3 shield extenders or 3 armor plates and try to increase their effectiveness with utility-modules in the remaining slots. I foresee a problem with this. Why not run 3 basic extenders and use the massive savings in CPU/PG to ovecome the gap you made. With maxed shield extension you'd get 48.4 shields with a basic. that's 66.6% of the ehp of a complex...with only like 1/3 the cpu/pg cost. You'd save a metric ton of cpu/pg which could be used for increasing more EHP from plates....that extra cpu/pg you would have increaed in your scenario doesn't fix the problem CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought

Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3360	Posted - 2014.06.09 10:50:00 - [21] - Quote Can we have an honest discussion about making reppers a high slot as well? If we're going to buff shields into viability I think we need to give armor tankers an armor tank module in the highs to compete with hybrid tanking. The easiest way to do this is by making hybrid tanking compete with the opportunity with damage mods (buff damage to 7.5% at proto please??) or alternatively, either reppers if it's easy, or a new module if it's feasible and it's what the people want. The reason people hybrid tank more than ever is the motivation for that 1v1 engagement and the critical seconds thereafter. A large problem of the current meta of hybrid tanking is that hybrid tanking the most ehp, outside of heavies, swarmers, and commando's, the sacrifice in tank vs damage mods isn't perceived as viable. So with hybrid tanking making the most sense (taking into account tanked scouts vs scouts who sacrifice to be double or unscannable) we need to rethink incentive when it comes to specializing in one tank. What if suits of different races polarized their respective suits viability and incentive to dual tank? This is a tangent for another conversation perhaps. goes back to theorycraft fits CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
Phoenix 85 Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 121	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:04:00 - [22] - Quote Min needs a shorter recharge delay than caldari. EDUCATE YOURSELF ABOUT PC VS CONSOLE
Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. 50	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:15:00 - [23] - Quote extenders hp/cpu/pg/pen 22/18/3/3 33/36/6/4 66/54/11/7 currently complex is so much better, that fitting 1 over 2 enhanced saves cpu, pg, less penalty, same hp, less cost. the difference is so bad i can fit a basic in that cpu gap, and need only 2 more pg, and get 23.2 extra shield for the trouble. cpu needs to be less linear, pg needs to drop, enhanced needs more hp, pen needs slight adjustment. proposed figures hp/cpu/pg/pen 25/20/2/2 42/35/5/3.5 66(70?)/58/8(9)/6 shield has always been described as cpu heavy, yet complex extenders used 1 less pg for half the hp gain. these numbers mean a caldari suit running 3 of them(will be using current cal assault as basis form this point forward) gets same hp gain( 217.8), uses 174 cpu(12 more), but saves 9 pg(rr and magsec is happy), as well as slightly better shield recharge times. personally i like the idea of adding a module similar to what energizers does for rechargers. something like a heavy extender. cost more cpu, more pg, gives more shield, but hurts recharge times more(talking 10% or more, forcing regulators to get base times) rechargers energizers increase/cpu/pg increase/cpu/pg/pen 15/30/0 25/40/0/2% an extra 10% recharge(3 on cal assault) for 10 cpu and 2% less shield(base only? 25/60/0 45/75/0/4% an extra 20% recharge(6 on cal assault) for 15cpu and 4% less shield(base only?) 42/90/0 60/96/0/6% an extra 18% recharge(5.5 cal assault) for 6cpu? and 6% less shield(base only?) considering cal assault maxs at 392 cpu, i wonder why rechargers are little used. complex gives a bonus 14 shield per second. Not bad, but worth just under 25% of your cpu? more so when for an extra 6 cpu i can gain an extra 6 shield per second for 15 total hp. most people wont fit more then 2 unless experimenting, but stacking penalties tend to slow them down, plus fitting 4 on a cal assault means no cpu left. proposed figures rechargers energizers increase/cpu/pg increase/cpu/pg/pen 20/25/0 30/35/1/3 32/40/0 45/65/1/5 54/72/0 65/85/1/7 improved rechargers for less cpu(may need adjusting), energizers give small improvments, little cpu exchanged for 1pg each. Regulators increase/cpu/pg 10/11/1 20/24/2 25/35/3 these ain't in a bad place, 1 complex reduces 5s wait to 3.6, 2 drops to 2.7. maybe small increase (maxing out at 30%), with a little more cpu cost to match? cal assault fitting 3 shield extenders 174 cpu 24 pg 217.8hp plus 262.5(maxed) gives 480.3 hp, recharge time drops to about 7.2 seconds (174/24) 1 complex recharger 54% plus skill bonus 15% (8.3) 62.8% about 48 shield recharge per second (72/0) energizer instead gives 65% plus skill bonus 15%(9.75) 75.25% 22.8 recharge per second(rough) at cost of about 18 shield (85/1) 2 regulators reduce time to 2.76 and 4.06 seconds (70/6) total cost 174+142= 316cpu or 316+13=329cpu and 30/31 pg currently costs 322/328cpu and 39pg
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1434	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:27:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As announced, we want to tweak all aspects of shield tanking so it becomes viable. I don't foresee any boosting of Extender hp, but their progression is up for discussion. However, we really want regulators and rechargers to be competitive choices to Armor. Most anything is on the table, PG/CPU, recharge delay, depleted recharge delay, recharge rates etc. Even CPU upgrades to get more CPU for those hard to fit regulators. Your proposals must be tweaks, nothing game altering and have to be focused on fixing shield tanking, without making hybrid tanking an even better choice. Would changing static recharge HP per second to time till fully recharged be gamechanging? In the same way EvE handles Shields that instead of saying you will recharge at x amount of hp per second it just says that the shield will recharge in x amount of seconds. I am planning to give some extensive feedback on this but don't want to go through the motions if it's too game changing. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
AmlSeb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 83	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:36:00 - [25] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As announced, we want to tweak all aspects of shield tanking so it becomes viable. I don't foresee any boosting of Extender hp, but their progression is up for discussion. However, we really want regulators and rechargers to be competitive choices to Armor. Most anything is on the table, PG/CPU, recharge delay, depleted recharge delay, recharge rates etc. Even CPU upgrades to get more CPU for those hard to fit regulators. Your proposals must be tweaks, nothing game altering and have to be focused on fixing shield tanking, without making hybrid tanking an even better choice. Would changing static recharge HP per second to time till fully recharged be gamechanging? In the same way EvE handles Shields that instead of saying you will recharge at x amount of hp per second it just says that the shield will recharge in x amount of seconds. I am planning to give some extensive feedback on this but don't want to go through the motions if it's too game changing. The whole tanking system should be like in EVE so it has to be game changing! First day veteran, Logi and Commander Soon a Legionnaire AmlSeb on Twitter
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 243	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:37:00 - [26] - Quote I was thinking the following: Shield Extenders. As of now they are STD 22hp with a 3% penalty to depleted recharge, 33 with a 4% penalty at ADV, and 66hp with a 7% penalty at PRO. Back then Shields were powerful now armor and now hybrid. My proposal here is to decrease the penalty applied to the extenders. Sure armor gets a penalty to movement speed and cannot naturally repair on their own. But keep in mind that nanohives, repair modules, and repair tools helps them dearly. Also keep in mind it is easier to fit armor plates than it is to fit shield extenders. Make the penalty 2,3,5 instead of 3,4,7. The health can also go 33, 55, 77 but that is debatable. Shield rechargers. They are fine Shield regulators. You need to make them worth the players time to run these modules. Really? a 10% STD, 20% ADV and 25% PRO? What is the point of running PRO if it only have a 5% difference to enhance and this is not counting the skill bonus. How about these numbers - 20%, 40%, 50% - 15%, 30%, 45% - or if you still want to keep 10% STD then 10%, 20%, 40%. This would make people want to run the PRO variant. my $0.02 on this subject thrown in.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 491	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:44:00 - [27] - Quote AmlSeb wrote: The whole tanking system should be like in EVE so it has to be game changing! Dude, your EVE fanatism is getting obnoxious. This is a hotfix of an FPS game. It shouldn't be like EVE in the first place, due to its infantry combat, and it can't be, anyway, because the devs can't make major changes anymore. There is a point to be made about making vehicles more like EVE, but not for infantry. The engagement times are way too ridiculously short to make that a sane choice.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2404	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:48:00 - [28] - Quote I've wondered if you could put shield impairment damage on them. Most suits would start with amounts under or at the weaker damage stuff. Somehow, they'd be able to increase, maybe from regulators. They'd mostly be useful against damage at long range, most close range hits would still delay the recharge the same way.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 568	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:53:00 - [29] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: I see two issues: - There is no synergy between low- and high-slot modules for one tanking type. The only exception are regulators. I can't see how to fix this without redoing modules completely. - You generally have enough fitting resources to fit both a shield and an armor tank. (Thanks to basic armor plates, even after hotfix alpha.) Here's a proposal for a set of changes: 1. Make shield extender progression 44 -> 55 -> 66 hp and change fitting requirements accordingly. 2. Basic armor plates receive a further increase in fitting requirements. We need to arrive at a situation where you can't stack 3 shield extenders and 3 armor plates because you'd run out of resources. You should focus on your 3 shield extenders or 3 armor plates and try to increase their effectiveness with utility-modules in the remaining slots. I foresee a problem with this. Why not run 3 basic extenders and use the massive savings in CPU/PG to ovecome the gap you made. With maxed shield extension you'd get 48.4 shields with a basic. that's 66.6% of the ehp of a complex...with only like 1/3 the cpu/pg cost. You'd save a metric ton of cpu/pg which could be used for increasing more EHP from plates....that extra cpu/pg you would have increaed in your scenario doesn't fix the problem In my mind a STD shield extender would end up costing over 2 times the current fitting costs they currently do. That's what I was trying to imply with the "and change fitting requirements accordingly" bit, but I see it wasn't very visible. Under those circumstances an armor tanker probably wouldn't want to add those extenders due to the incurred fitting costs, if there was anything else that could be useful to him to fit in high-slots. And that's precisely the problem. There is nothing useful to equip in high-slots except shield modules. Every armor tanker will always want to fit as many shields as he can due to the lack of utility modules in the high-slots. The same is true for a shield tanker in regards to his low slots. That's because there is barely any synergy between low- and high-slots for the two tanks. In Eve Online every slot on your ship can be used to enhance the tank you've chosen, regardless of it being an active or passive shield or armor tank. In Dust all armor modules are low slot, all shield modules (except regulators) high slot. Of course you end up dual-tanking. Otherwise you'd basically leave slots unoccupied. I was considering suggesting to move shield rechargers and energizers to low slots and making armor repairers high slot modules. But the resulting fittings would look kind of boring, I think.
AmlSeb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 83	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:55:00 - [30] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: AmlSeb wrote: The whole tanking system should be like in EVE so it has to be game changing! Dude, your EVE fanatism is getting obnoxious. This is a hotfix of an FPS game. It shouldn't be like EVE in the first place, due to its infantry combat, and it can't be, anyway, because the devs can't make major changes anymore. There is a point to be made about making vehicles more like EVE, but not for infantry. The engagement times are way too ridiculously short to make that a sane choice. Though it's a game in the EVE universe so it all should be more influenced by EVE and not by CoD First day veteran, Logi and Commander Soon a Legionnaire AmlSeb on Twitter



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