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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
1596
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Posted - 2014.06.09 10:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Regulators are in a really comfortable place PG/CPU-wise, but Energizers, Rechargers & Extenders are all terrible.
Energizer's CPU should scale about the same as the Rechargers do currently and Rechargers should be at about half their current CPU costs.
Rechargers and energizers need a bigger bump. When you're a Minmatar assault and you ONLY have shields due to your 5/2 module loadout, waiting 5 seconds on your delay and then waiting another 10 for your shields to replenish is an eternity. I'm thinking 25/45/65 for Rechargers and 45/75/95 for Energizers
Regulators should have a much higher percentage increase (more along the lines of 35/55/75) because getting your shields back in an intense firefight means the world when you shield tank and no logi in the world can help you with that.
Extenders CPU/PG is kinda jacked up too. I'm thinking something along the lines of 15/1, 30/3, 50/5. Others have discussed the HP scaling in detail, so I'll leave it at that.
^My Shield Christmas Wish List.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
1596
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Posted - 2014.06.09 10:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:duster 35000 wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Spartan MK420 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:As announced, we want to tweak all aspects of shield tanking so it becomes viable.
I don't foresee any boosting of Extender hp, but their progression is up for discussion. However, we really want regulators and rechargers to be competitive choices to Armor.
Most anything is on the table, PG/CPU, recharge delay, depleted recharge delay, recharge rates etc. Even CPU upgrades to get more CPU for those hard to fit regulators.
Your proposals must be tweaks, nothing game altering and have to be focused on fixing shield tanking, without making hybrid tanking an even better choice. proto regulators should be around 75% or 80% (so they can stack shields with the shield recharge penalty holding no bearing) 1 thing that has always annoyed me iabout shields, is how little the shield rechargers add to your gross recharge rate in the end. Sums up to a wasted slot. The Energizers are much more what I expected the rechargers to be. yea except energizers nerf you shield hp by a ton. you also cant have regulators that high. youd have normal shield delays thatd be less than 1 second lol That would mean PURE shields would have use in pc, and people would stop using armor on shield suits. ok then, buff regulators in two separate parts. buff the "shield delay" to 30% and then the "depleted shield delay" to what ever we need to offset stacking shield extenders. but reducing the shield delay by 75% per module (not including stacking penalties) is insane Having a shield delay at less than a second is fine, because he had to sacrifice a plate spot in order to run his shields well. The whole idea is to make shield mods good enough that you want to use them as opposed to stacking on more HP with armor. 75% reduction accomplishes this.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
1644
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Posted - 2014.06.11 01:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Honestly I will be happy if kin cats were moved to high slots and got their PG requirements cut back. Sorry CatMerc, but a armor tanked Amarr Sentinel with 2x complex kincats would be the absolute end of Dust for me as far as I'm concerned. Hell, a 50/50 rep/armor stacked Gallente Sentinal with 1 complex Kincat would be f'n insane. I'd be happy to give you PG upgrades, Cardiac regs and codebreakers as highs if you need high slot variety though.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
1648
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Posted - 2014.06.11 08:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Hi, we are back with numbers here, we are aiming for tweaks as the bonuses are mostly % based, so stacking can lead to invincible suits. Numbers Would it be possible to add regulator variants? Like one that reduces depleted delay more but gives no bonus to regular delay, and one that reduces regular delay more but doesn't effect depleted dellay?
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
1649
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Posted - 2014.06.11 11:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
I know I'm taking liberty with your lack of specificity here, but since this is a thread on shield tanking here is a link to my thoughts on Caldari vs Minmatar shield tanking as it pertains to Assault Suits. Ya know, for when you guys get to that point.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
1649
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Posted - 2014.06.11 12:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Hi, we are back with numbers here, we are aiming for tweaks as the bonuses are mostly % based, so stacking can lead to invincible suits. Numbers Would it be possible to add regulator variants? Like one that reduces depleted delay more but gives no bonus to regular delay, and one that reduces regular delay more but doesn't effect depleted delay? Edit: The problem is that adding a 5% bonus to an already far too weak module isn't going to be enough to make it worth running over an additional plate For example: a Minmatar assault with 4 shield extenders has about a 10.2 second recharge delay (which is in itself ridiculous since it's the lowest eHP assault suit in the game). Throwing on a current prototype regulator will reduce that to 7.6 seconds to wait while bullets are raining all around you and missiles are falling from the sky. Waiting that long before your shields START to recover, not before they ARE recovered. With this new bonus, instead we'll be waiting 7.1 seconds for our shields to START coming back. You just saved me 0.5 seconds on a 7+ second wait...... thanks. That might be enough to save me.... 3% of the time. I don't know how well you know your Minmatar suits, but that means we have 168 (at max armor passive skill) to keep us alive until our shields begin to regen, and that's if you don't take any fall damage, get clipped by a vehicle, or get grazed by a stray bullet in the meantime. 1-6 bullets from just about any weapon is enough to kill that, and I don't know if you've noticed but our guns shoot a lot of bullets really fast. So tell me why, with this minuscule wait time increase, would I not be more inclined to simply throw on a plate? At least then I'd have the health to run away once my shields went down. With this low eHP, I'd be better off having at least one plate to give me the health to run when necessary as opposed to dying while hiding and hoping my shields come back before the guy that shot my shields off decides to come play peek-a-boo around whatever cover I'm using. I'll use you as my example of why shield tanking is done wrong by players. You only needed enough shield hp to absorb whatever blast hit you. What's your shield delay? Extenders don't penalize your normal shield delay. If you hadn't let your shields drop to zero you actually would've only had to wait maybe 5 seconds. I think that's too long and should be shortened. But It's my belief that anyone who stacks that much shield hp and still manage to let their shield drop to zero deserves to die. I have 5 high slots. Should I be leaving them empty? Damage mods are useless, my passives pick up any non-damped suits and anyone who IS damped is going to be beyond anything less than 2 precision enhancers. Putting on less shields means my shields get depleted fully SOONER, and I even though shield HP is the high end of the HP pool on my suit even before mods, I only have 37.4 more base shields than Amarr or Gallente and 75 less than a Caldari while having less armor than anyone (base 135). To top that off, I already have to run a recharger or energizer in one of my highs in order to keep my recharge speed up with the Caldari's base recharge stats; and even with just 2 shield extenders fitted, a Complex regulator wont keep my depleted delay up with a Caldari assault's base depleted delay stats. (You know the Caldari right? The ones who are supposed to TANK shields and not BUFFER TANK them?)
So tell me, when running my 2 shield extenders (keeping my shield health equal to a Caldari assault with one extender on), just to keep my depleted delay ALMOST as low as a Caldari assault's depleted delay when I have a COMPLEX regulator on, how should I run my suit to keep my HP above that of a scout so I can survive? You know, the guys that can run faster than me, strafe faster than me, don't show on my radar, and can passively see me on theirs? What do you suggest? Armor plate? Oh wait, we're trying to FIX that problem, aren't we....
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
1649
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Posted - 2014.06.11 12:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:you just explained why minmatar are guerrilla warfare specialists. this is why the combat rifle does so much damage. combined with minmatar speed you get in fast, blast your target and leave before anyone can do anything about it. then you do it again to someone else. minmatar dont do slug matches. they are hit and run. more so than caldari. their stats are designed purposely so they cant stand toe to toe with anyone. theyre designed to force you into the hit and run play style
No, I just described why Minmatar SHOULD be hit-and-run specialists.
The Minmatar scout is a great hit-and-run suit because of it's native scans and damps combined with it's spectacular speed and balanced slot loadout.
The Minmatar assault is not fast enough to be able to get the run part of "hit-and-run" down since every scout that's not completely loaded down with plates and any assault with a single basic kincat can keep up with. There is not enough good cover in this game to bounce from cover to cover avoiding gunfire. It has no bonus to scans or damps so even if you do run you are 75% of the time just picked off by a scout who saw what you were doing and got ahead of you. With 3 complex precision enhancers this suit cannot scan a scout with a single damp on (3 complex puts my scan at 26.35db, scout with 1 proto damp = 23.63), so that increases the % of people I can scan over no precision enhancers by about 3% since my maxed passives already pick up anyone not a scout or damped, so that's useless. I can't Damp tank to avoid scanners or scout passives since I only have 2 lows, one always held by a regulator. And since my ability to recover from damage is worse than anyone's, my suit fails at recovering in a pinch.
So, basically all the things that could be used to put together a great hit-and-run class the Minmatar either fails at miserably or attempts but falls short of.
No, sir, YOU are the one who has no clue what he is speaking of.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
1649
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Posted - 2014.06.11 14:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:Wow, some of you should really just stop posting in feedback as it's clear that you don't know how to properly play the game. The only issue with Minmatar lies with the heavy variant as it doesn't have outstanding abilities like the medium/light racial bonuses, all it has is a decent stamina recovery. Shield rechargers/energizers are not in need of tweaks, the bonus is good enough and if you can't fit it USE A CPU UPGRADE. As suggested in a different thread, shield regulators should be changed to a 20/30/40 progression while adding a new variant that does the following:
STD - 10% reduction to delay and 5% increase to base shields. ADV - 20% reduction to delay and 10% increase to base shields. PRO - 25% reduction to delay and 15% increase to base shields.
With that we have one variant that is useful when frequently taking damage and another that gives some HP but with a slightly longer wait time to recover it. Wow, some of you should really just stop posting in feedback as it's clear you refuse to accept that everyone has different viewpoints on the same playstyles to share. You know, that thing we call "Feedback". And I must have missed the part where someone was complaining about being able to fit modules.
On Topic - If you were to put in this variant you would be adding a low module that adds shield HP. Would it not make sense to move reactive plates to a high slot so that armor to even things out in that respect? Reactives are about as close to regulators as armor modules get, and it would give armor fits something useful apart from shields to throw in their high slots. Thoughts?
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
1649
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Posted - 2014.06.11 14:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:you just explained why minmatar are guerrilla warfare specialists. this is why the combat rifle does so much damage. combined with minmatar speed you get in fast, blast your target and leave before anyone can do anything about it. then you do it again to someone else. minmatar dont do slug matches. they are hit and run. more so than caldari. their stats are designed purposely so they cant stand toe to toe with anyone. theyre designed to force you into the hit and run play style
No, I just described why Minmatar SHOULD be hit-and-run specialists. The Minmatar scout is a great hit-and-run suit because of it's native scans and damps combined with it's spectacular speed and balanced slot loadout. The Minmatar assault is not fast enough to be able to get the run part of "hit-and-run" down since every scout that's not completely loaded down with plates and any assault with a single basic kincat can keep up with. There is not enough good cover in this game to bounce from cover to cover avoiding gunfire. It has no bonus to scans or damps so even if you do run you are 75% of the time just picked off by a scout who saw what you were doing and got ahead of you. With 3 complex precision enhancers this suit cannot scan a scout with a single damp on (3 complex puts my scan at 26.35db, scout with 1 proto damp = 23.63), so that increases the % of people I can scan over no precision enhancers by about 3% since my maxed passives already pick up anyone not a scout or damped, so that's useless. I can't Damp tank to avoid scanners or scout passives since I only have 2 lows, one always held by a regulator. And since my ability to recover from damage is worse than anyone's, my suit fails at recovering in a pinch. So, basically all the things that could be used to put together a great hit-and-run class the Minmatar either fails at miserably or attempts but falls short of. No, sir, YOU are the one who has no clue what he is speaking of. so youre not using complex kincats? i dont need cover just kill, run and flank the next target. you dont need scanners and you dont need defense really. just focus on speed and firepower. thats it and use damage mods. i just did a match (lost it) but i went 17/6 in milita medium frame lol. dont tell me idk how to hit and run. i just did without any problems and died 3 times in it. i hack a point, left, came back and killed three guys counter hacking ran away, and came back killed a dude as he was being revived, then killed the guy who revived him, then a heavy caldari after that. i dont even run minmatar and know how they work lol 1 complex extender 1 enhanced recharger 1 enhanced damage mod std combat rifle std smg compact nanohive I'll post my response in this thread as we are crowding a shield balancing thread with a suit argument. If you want to see it, feel free to go there here in a few minutes. Either way, we don't need to bog this thread down with this topic.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
1650
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Posted - 2014.06.11 14:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Redacted
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
1651
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Posted - 2014.06.11 15:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Alldin Kan wrote:Offering misleading feedback would result in unnecessary tweaks or balance issues (see current state of scouts). Anyways, reactives should remain on low due to armor suits already having huge HP, for the variant I suggested it's ok due to shields needing extra HP but still not being able to get too close to armor suit HP total (shields are quick to recover). Moving reactice to high would be overkill due to lower cpu/pg req than shields. Would these regulators be giving a percentage of base shields or total shields? Because if it's total, a Caldari assault fully shield tanked right now would go from 552.3 to 634.8 shields (not too terribly large of a jump if they only used a single module, potential for issues if stacked), but a Caldari heavy would go from 946.7 to 1088.7 and tbh with resistances boosting eHP the way they are already this could be something of an issue. I specified base shields. Missed it, I see no issue with this then.
PSN ID: AlbelNox2569
Cross Atu for CPM1
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