Proposed numbers in a separate tab here:

Numbers

You are showing effective range not optimal range, so I am assuming that the optimal range value is -30 meters. To me optimal range is far more important than effective since as a Gallente shooting anything outside of my optimal even just 5 meters out is like throwing sprinkles at my target.

Would like some optimal range values though...

DPS for automatic AR should be higher, specially with its range reduced to 40 meters (not to happy about that :/). although I am having a hard time converting that number to raw rof per minute/per sec. Or if it even represents rof.

Range of the Assault rail should be lower by about 10 meters or its dispersion should be considerably higher so as to not make it a true "assault" weapon.

Breach AR range should be higher by about 10 meters. Not sure about dps, I can't figure it out.

Burst AR range is good. Not sure about its DPS.

Tactical rifle also looks good.

Please remember that all burst and tactical type weapons should have a burst delay to avoid abuse. This also had the side effect of helping the weapon not nerf itself in situations of high lag.

I keep on saying this, but it hasn't been responded to yet. However, I don't think all optimals are a flat 30m under effective.

At prototype level they are.

Approve of removing range progression.

Afraid of tinkering with rifle variants will repeat the "copies" outperforming the "originals". It's funny because all the real rifle originals, the "copies", are plasma rifles because that was the place holder weapon for all other "original" rifles.

If rail rifle DPS needs reducing, please lower the rate of fire so that it feels different from firing the plasma rifle.

OK ... done now. See Response to Data
You were saying?

Just keep the overheat of the ScR in mind if you start looking at tweaking it vs TAR. It does damage to you and renders you uuseless and vulnerable for that period of time.

No. This is where there is miscommunication starts. He has shown effective ranges not optimals. And he is using base optimal damage so it isn't as straightforward as you show. We don't know what they are doing with optimals.

"Not knowing what they're doing with optimals" is not an excuse to ignore the data we've been provided. My calculations are responsive to said data and are offered in followup to my now-defunct earlier calculations posted here.

There is no miscommunication, intended or otherwise.
I'll underline "effective" in my post above. Just for you.
Kisses.

Sorry, my point is more that they've been the ones not acknowledging anything about optimals yet.

Thanks everyone for your input over the last few weeks on this issue. At the heart of every FPS there is the Rifle and it just needs to be fair and balanced.

The current situation is that we have some underperforming weapons and a complex range progression. See here: DPS versus Range - Current

I began looking at balancing that system, and that effort got me around here: DPS versus Range - Tuned

Here are, therefore, our proposals, while our method will be primarily buffing through tweaking fire delays, ROF and damage. We will not be touching the actual maximum effective range of the weapons, as they are heavily influenced by New Eden lore/rules.

1) Eliminate range progression of all rifles. It's unnecessarily complex and very hard to balance dps over range with overlapping bubbles. Therefore, all Standard and Advanced weapon will have the effective range of the matching Prototype weapon.

This is how that scenario looks like, and we can all agree that it is easier on the eyes and brain: Range vs DPS - No Range Progression - Current

2) Then we need to properlybuff some of the weaker variants in general, Breach AR, Burst AR and Tac AR

3) And finally make sure that there is a trade off of range versus dps, I am looking at you Rail Rifle.

And this is a birds eye view of how that might look after this balancing pass:
Range versus DPS - No Range Progression - Tuned

Go wild, keep it civil and constructive.

I know that you cannot make changes in regards to my following statement. CCP failed to tie players race, to their kit therefore "playstyles" where broken from the get go. RACE + Race's suit + race's weapons should= 100% effectiveness all other combos should be penalised.

Thanks everyone for your input over the last few weeks on this issue. At the heart of every FPS there is the Rifle and it just needs to be fair and balanced.

...Some Cool Stuff...

Should not be penalized; Dust 514 and eve is about freedom of fitting instead of shoehorning; true suit bonuses causes a bit of shoehorning but that's the deal when you start to specialize.

If we have to spend our hard earned SP & ISk to get access to a higher tier weapon variant, then the value of the increase of damage of that weapon should also correlate with an increased range. To not do so would very much seem unfair; otherwise lower the cost or Sp requirements for all rifles.

I know that you cannot make changes in regards to my following statement. CCP failed to tie players race, to their kit therefore "playstyles" where broken from the get go. RACE + Race's suit + race's weapons should= 100% effectiveness all other combos should be penalised.

Higher tier weapons are supposed to give you an edge.
More range is not an edge. It flat-out changes the fight from "I have a slightly better gun" to "Hahaha he can't even hit back!".
I do agree that the advantage should be meaningful, but not via range.
It makes more sense to increase mag size or reduce the drawback or something.


No, a race's equipment should be fitting to that race's playstyle, not increasing the effectiveness artifically.
A Gallente should want a Gallente weapon because his suit is best used in close combat. A Minmatar should prefer a Minmatar weapon because it fits his hit and run-oriented suit.
And any player should be able to consciously use another faction's equipment for specific roles. That's why we even have a fitting system.

Bonuses should be in-character, not metagaming. An Assault shouldn't give a bonus to a faction's weapon, but rather give a bonus that makes all weapons a bit more like the faction's weapon - Meaning that the faction's weapon profits the most, because it's already the strongest in the areas that are getting even stronger. A close-combat bonus on a Rail Rifle is worth less than a close combat bonus on a Plasma Rifle, because the load-up of the Rail Rifle will always be detrimental in that situation.

Edit:
And yes, this means that the Logi equipment is quite silly right now. According to this logic, the Amarr should have the repair tool, due to being brick tankers.
Ideally, you would be capable of filling your ranks with a single faction, due to appropriate synergy.

Might I suggest increasing the AR's clip size to 64 bullets?
The increased fire rate means it will eat bullets faster, resulting in more frequent reloads on the rifle with the 2nd slowest reload time.
And considering it's a CQC rifle, that's not something that you want.

Might I suggest increasing the AR's clip size to 64 bullets?
The increased fire rate means it will eat bullets faster, resulting in more frequent reloads on the rifle with the 2nd slowest reload time.
And considering it's a CQC rifle, that's not something that you want.

Does the USA have export restrictions on gear and systems-YES.
Do contractors and companies, such as XE receive waivers for the systems-YES
If you show your MIL ID can you buy milspec items such as scopes-YES

Is it unreasonable for a game to follow RL logic-YES? GTFO!

As for lore a Caldari arms manufacturer would not sell Tier-1 kit to a Gallente. The operating sytems of race suits and weapons from foriegn sources would not work to spec.

Most importantly you negate play styles, and thus balance. Map design is important and an RP'ing MIN or CAL can only run around 50 meters from an objective-where the snipers shoot and the tanks roll, because shields SUCK- so we have range.

If you give the metal monsters more rifle punch you best get ready to buff Cal/Min assaults, shield, scan range and movement if you expect any of them to get near an objective.

I know that you cannot make changes in regards to my following statement. CCP failed to tie players race, to their kit therefore "playstyles" where broken from the get go. RACE + Race's suit + race's weapons should= 100% effectiveness all other combos should be penalised.