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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2404
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Posted - 2014.06.09 11:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm a little confused. Isn't this showing the dps of your optimal range but the listed ranges are effective ranges? |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2404
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Posted - 2014.06.09 14:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:I'm a little confused. Isn't this showing the dps of your optimal range but the listed ranges are effective ranges? The listed DPS corresponds to the distance in CM on the bottom.
I just don't think this is true. I don't think that the 30% of a CR DPS is 594 in its effective range.
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2404
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 16:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Could you finally show the effective and maximum ranges of weapons in game?
Glad to see you're tackling this stuff either way
I think they are going off of the numbers (and SDE) from the 1.7 devblog. It's showing the optimal and effective ranges. But yeah, having it in game would be nice. At the effective range the DPS should be 30% of what it is inside of the optimal range. I think they are miscommunicating DPS in some way here. But comparing effective range DPS is still useful.
But looking just at effective range DPS and not optimal isn't so helpful. I think a comparison of other competing rifles at optimal ranges matters too. If some weapons can dominate your DPS outside your optimal, then what really is your role? |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2404
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 16:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just so we are clear CCP Rattati, it looks like you are listing the DPS inside a weapon's optimal but at the effective ranges of each weapon. In reality, the listed dps should be 70% lower than what you have at these ranges.
That is unless you are eliminating the effective range progression for all rifles and making DPS constant up to the effective range? |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2404
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 17:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alright, I took CCP Rattati's Rifle Range chart with his DPS numbers for proto weapons, and then converted the DPS to what each weapon would output at their effective ranges.
Here's the new chart
I thought his chart was misleading because it was showing the optimal range DPS at effective range. I wish i could connect the slopes of the different rifle types here, but this is what I have at short notice. I also tried to race-color coordinate.
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2404
|
Posted - 2014.06.09 18:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:All Gallente rifles and variants need to have the highest DPS of their type, and the lowest range of ttype. All caldari rifles and their variants need to have the highest range and lowest DPS of their variants. The other two races should fall in the middle, as appropriate.
The reason is, the variants are a copy of another races rifle, but still with the racial flavor of the parent rifle. Thus, the breach AR should have the highest range and lowest DPS of the AR variants, but have the lowest range and highest DPS when compared to the other races breach variants (breach scrambler rifle, breach combat rifle, and regular rail rifle)
I will create a spreadsheet for this if someone can tell me how I can upload it. :/
Not necessarily. Damage isn't always the most significant factor in taking something down. When going against suits that are 750HP+ then, it is much more significant, but against <500 HP suits, things like RoF, reload speed, and other accuracy factors make a big difference. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2404
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 11:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Just so long as we all get the 'effective range' reduces this listed damage to 30% of what's up there. Nobody is getting that damage at that range. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2404
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 11:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Proposed numbers in a separate tab here: Numbers You are showing effective range not optimal range, so I am assuming that the optimal range value is -30 meters. To me optimal range is far more important than effective since as a Gallente shooting anything outside of my optimal even just 5 meters out is like throwing sprinkles at my target. Would like some optimal range values though... DPS for automatic AR should be higher, specially with its range reduced to 40 meters (not to happy about that :/). although I am having a hard time converting that number to raw rof per minute/per sec. Or if it even represents rof. Range of the Assault rail should be lower by about 10 meters or its dispersion should be considerably higher so as to not make it a true "assault" weapon. Breach AR range should be higher by about 10 meters. Not sure about dps, I can't figure it out. Burst AR range is good. Not sure about its DPS. Tactical rifle also looks good. Please remember that all burst and tactical type weapons should have a burst delay to avoid abuse. This also had the side effect of helping the weapon not nerf itself in situations of high lag.
I keep on saying this, but it hasn't been responded to yet. However, I don't think all optimals are a flat 30m under effective. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2405
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 11:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Proposed numbers in a separate tab here: Numbers You are showing effective range not optimal range, so I am assuming that the optimal range value is -30 meters. To me optimal range is far more important than effective since as a Gallente shooting anything outside of my optimal even just 5 meters out is like throwing sprinkles at my target. Would like some optimal range values though... DPS for automatic AR should be higher, specially with its range reduced to 40 meters (not to happy about that :/). although I am having a hard time converting that number to raw rof per minute/per sec. Or if it even represents rof. Range of the Assault rail should be lower by about 10 meters or its dispersion should be considerably higher so as to not make it a true "assault" weapon. Breach AR range should be higher by about 10 meters. Not sure about dps, I can't figure it out. Burst AR range is good. Not sure about its DPS. Tactical rifle also looks good. Please remember that all burst and tactical type weapons should have a burst delay to avoid abuse. This also had the side effect of helping the weapon not nerf itself in situations of high lag. I keep on saying this, but it hasn't been responded to yet. However, I don't think all optimals are a flat 30m under effective. At prototype level they are.
Are these no longer the ranges? But yes, I assume this would mean that optimal ranges would now become what the old PRO optimals were? |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2405
|
Posted - 2014.06.10 12:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:Approve of removing range progression.
Afraid of tinkering with rifle variants will repeat the "copies" outperforming the "originals". It's funny because all the real rifle originals, the "copies", are plasma rifles because that was the place holder weapon for all other "original" rifles.
If rail rifle DPS needs reducing, please lower the rate of fire so that it feels different from firing the plasma rifle.
Or give it a bit more kick over time. |
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2408
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Posted - 2014.06.10 13:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:New Numbers (The Buffs, ranked)
- Tactical Assault Rifles (All) +27% to RoF, +15% DMG, +7% Range
- Burst Assault Rifles (Adv) +17% to RoF, +15% DMG
- Burst Assault Rifles (Pro) +6% to RoF, +18% DMG
- Breach Assault Rifles (All) +7% to RoF, +13% DMG
- Assault Rifles (All) +6% to RoF
- *
[i]Note: Lower-tier range profiles buffed to fit prototype range profile. Note: Prototype (normalized) effective range profiles reduced as follows: New Numbers (The Nerfs, ranked)
- Assault Rifles -10% Range
- Assault Combat Rifles -6% Range
- Assault Rail Rifles -5% Range
- Breach Assault Rifles -5% Range
- Assault Scrambler Rifle -2% Range
- Rail Rifle -2% Range
No. This is where there is miscommunication starts. He has shown effective ranges not optimals. And he is using base optimal damage so it isn't as straightforward as you show. We don't know what they are doing with optimals.
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
2409
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Posted - 2014.06.10 14:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Beren Hurin wrote: No. This is where there is miscommunication starts. He has shown effective ranges not optimals. And he is using base optimal damage so it isn't as straightforward as you show. We don't know what they are doing with optimals.
"Not knowing what they're doing with optimals" is not an excuse to ignore the data we've been provided. My calculations are responsive to said data and are offered in followup to my now-defunct earlier calculations posted here. There is no miscommunication, intended or otherwise. I'll underline "effective" in my post above. Just for you. Kisses.
Sorry, my point is more that they've been the ones not acknowledging anything about optimals yet. |
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