DUST Search - [Suggestion] On Tweaking Rifles

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

[Suggestion] On Tweaking Rifles

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 691	Posted - 2014.05.16 13:27:00 - [1] - Quote * Slightly decrease RoF for Combat Rifle and Assault Combat Rifle * Slightly increase RoF for Assault (Plasma) Rifle Rifles are pretty close to being balanced; as close as we've seen to date. The adjustments above will move the top-performer and bottom-performer closer to the middle.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13364	Posted - 2014.05.16 13:29:00 - [2] - Quote Yes please. I feel the RoF for the burst combat rifle should be reduced by increasing fire delay between bursts, though. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 693	Posted - 2014.05.16 13:34:00 - [3] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Yes please. I feel the RoF for the burst combat rifle should be reduced by increasing fire delay between bursts, though. Excellent point. OP updated.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1035	Posted - 2014.05.16 14:15:00 - [4] - Quote This will be interesting. First I would like to get relative parity or usage between the racial variants, within each class (std, adv, pro) and leave the gallente variants and other race full auto variants out of the picture (for a time being) That said, currently these rifles are in relative balance, sorted from most consumed to least. Rail Rifles Combat Rifles Plasma (GA) Rifles Scrambler Rifles Data says that Scramblers are either considerably worse or inhabit a radically different role on the battlefield. Plasma rifles also need love, but not much by the numbers. If UP against the others, please post suggestions. My personal experience is that the Assault CR is considerably better than the Duvolle at most ranges. Something I don't like having specced fully into all Plasma rifle proficiencies Discuss "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1200	Posted - 2014.05.16 14:27:00 - [5] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Data says that Scramblers are either considerably worse or inhabit a radically different role on the battlefield. Plasma rifles also need love, but not much by the numbers. If UP against the others, please post suggestions. My personal experience is that the Assault CR is considerably better than the Duvolle at most ranges. Something I don't like having specced fully into all Plasma rifle proficiencies Discuss I think you, in describing your skills, explained why the Plasma Rifle is being used on the battlefield even though it is completely outmatched; you specced it so high. When Uprising hit, THE weapon was the Plasma Rifle, so, a ton of people specced it, heck I even had it to Proto. When we got that first respec, I specced out of PRs into Scramblers. The majority of people, however, still have those skills rather high. When in doubt, you can pull out a Plasma Rifle and have that Prof. V still work even if its a basic. Also, just being called the AR gets any new guy to think 'that's the weapon I know from CoD/BF, I'm good with it there, so, I have to be good with it here'. Thus, the name change needs to be a priority. I think I'm over Dust now...
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13373	Posted - 2014.05.16 14:28:00 - [6] - Quote A sticky? Fantastic. I'll get something more comprehensive down shortly, but for now, initial thoughts on Rattati's post: Scramblers... I'd say they actually do inhabit a radically different role. All of the other rifles can be spammed with relative impunity and tend to be fully automatic. The SCR's harsh overheat penalty tends to punish users much more than the other rifles do. Of all of the rifles, they were also hurt the most by the proficiency change - they really struggle against armour now while all the other rifles are mostly indifferent to the tank type (especially in the case of the combat rifle). I would say that the PR is UP compared to the CR because it's simply overwhelmingly beaten in damage output. When the CR also has a greater range and RoF there is rarely a situation in which it is favourable to use a PR. While rail rifles are the most common I don't think they need to be touched. Also, I know you said to leave variants out of it but in the case of the ACR vs the AR the ACR is just simply better. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3070	Posted - 2014.05.16 14:29:00 - [7] - Quote SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1038	Posted - 2014.05.16 14:35:00 - [8] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: A sticky? Fantastic. I'll get something more comprehensive down shortly, but for now, initial thoughts on Rattati's post: Scramblers... I'd say they actually do inhabit a radically different role. All of the other rifles can be spammed with relative impunity and tend to be fully automatic. The SCR's harsh overheat penalty tends to punish users much more than the other rifles do. Of all of the rifles, they were also hurt the most by the proficiency change - they really struggle against armour now while all the other rifles are mostly indifferent to the tank type (especially in the case of the combat rifle). I would say that the PR is UP compared to the CR because it's simply overwhelmingly beaten in damage output. When the CR also has a greater range and RoF there is rarely a situation in which it is favourable to use a PR. While rail rifles are the most common I don't think they need to be touched. Also, I know you said to leave variants out of it but in the case of the ACR vs the AR the ACR is just simply better. Go forth and bring us sweet sweet numbers :D Let's compare all the Full Autos separately, just like I would like to balance the Breaches (Breach PR vs RR , Bursts Burst PR vs RR and Single Shots, Tac PR vs Scrambler) , a little later, or someone break out a new thread on that. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1200	Posted - 2014.05.16 14:35:00 - [9] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line *liability Also, the current meta is why the Scrambler is bottom of the barrel as steady said. I got my baby to Prof. V, so, if shields could gain some ground, it would do wonders to change that order. Could we get actual numbers Rattati? How out used/sold is the Scrambler. A list of 1-4 is great, but hard numbers are better. Also, Officer Scramblers please (with an Assault Variant too). I think I'm over Dust now...

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1038	Posted - 2014.05.16 14:37:00 - [10] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line The Tac AR used to dominate, even in CQC. Hip dispersion was increased so it went back to short tange sniping, but it has a place in firefights, just like the Scrambler, so let's put ideas on the table. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1040	Posted - 2014.05.16 14:39:00 - [11] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line *liability Also, the current meta is why the Scrambler is bottom of the barrel as steady said. I got my baby to Prof. V, so, if shields could gain some ground, it would do wonders to change that order. Could we get actual numbers Rattati? How out used/sold is the Scrambler. A list of 1-4 is great, but hard numbers are better. Also, Officer Scramblers please (with an Assault Variant too). Yep, EHP stacking with Plates is creating an imbalance in the whole ecosystem "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1200	Posted - 2014.05.16 14:42:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line *liability Also, the current meta is why the Scrambler is bottom of the barrel as steady said. I got my baby to Prof. V, so, if shields could gain some ground, it would do wonders to change that order. Could we get actual numbers Rattati? How out used/sold is the Scrambler. A list of 1-4 is great, but hard numbers are better. Also, Officer Scramblers please (with an Assault Variant too). Yep, EHP stacking with Plates is creating an imbalance in the whole ecosystem Would, as has been suggested elsewhere, changing plates to a % increase (Heavies get more HP while Scouts get very little) be doable with the current update plans? Or is that something that would require a patch? I think I'm over Dust now...

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1043	Posted - 2014.05.16 15:05:00 - [13] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line *liability Also, the current meta is why the Scrambler is bottom of the barrel as steady said. I got my baby to Prof. V, so, if shields could gain some ground, it would do wonders to change that order. Could we get actual numbers Rattati? How out used/sold is the Scrambler. A list of 1-4 is great, but hard numbers are better. Also, Officer Scramblers please (with an Assault Variant too). Yep, EHP stacking with Plates is creating an imbalance in the whole ecosystem Would, as has been suggested elsewhere, changing plates to a % increase (Heavies get more HP while Scouts get very little) be doable with the current update plans? Or is that something that would require a patch? That would maybe remedy brick tanking scouts, but not the bigger picture of plate prevalence and lack of variety. There is also lack of incentive to move to higher class plates, as basics are very simple and efficient. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Appia Nappia 702	Posted - 2014.05.16 15:16:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This will be interesting. First I would like to get relative parity or usage between the racial variants, within each class (std, adv, pro) and leave the gallente variants and other race full auto variants out of the picture (for a time being) That said, currently these rifles are in relative balance, sorted from most consumed to least. Rail Rifles Combat Rifles Plasma (GA) Rifles Scrambler Rifles Data says that Scramblers are either considerably worse or inhabit a radically different role on the battlefield. Plasma rifles also need love, but not much by the numbers. If UP against the others, please post suggestions. My personal experience is that the Assault CR is considerably better than the Duvolle at most ranges. Something I don't like having specced fully into all Plasma rifle proficiencies Discuss Scrambler Rifle is definitely unique. The overheat mechanic and charge keep it from being the go-to weapon. I love it for it's mechanics, though I rarely use the Front-line playstyle which supports the idea that it has a radically different role. Combat Rifle will always be better. It has the best falloff values and the best armor/shiled damage. As long as Hybrid (the "balanced" damage) has +10/-10 or -10/+10 and Combat Rifle has -5/+10 it will be imbalanced and have more people gravitate to it. Both its base and effective DPS are higher. Suggestion: Plasma becomes +5%/-5%; Rail becomes -5%/+5%; Projectile becomes -10%/+10%; Laser becomes +10%/-10% Secretly Appia Vibbia If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3070	Posted - 2014.05.16 15:47:00 - [15] - Quote I cant spell >.< I think tanking styles are also throwing everything off. The idea of shield stacking or amour needs to be reconsidered, i would rather hp buffs removed and resistances put in place in stead, for example you could stack vs CR, like damage types in EvE "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 703	Posted - 2014.05.16 15:50:00 - [16] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: * Combat Rifle - Slightly increase burst interval * Assault Combat Rifle - Slightly decrease Rate of Fire * Plasma (Assault) Rifle - Slightly increase Rate of Fire Rifles are pretty close to being balanced; as close as we've seen to date. The adjustments above will move the top-performers and bottom-performers closer to the middle. I feel this goes a long way towards attaining balance. There does not need to be huge changes, just minor tweaks like described above ^
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1204	Posted - 2014.05.16 15:53:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line *liability Also, the current meta is why the Scrambler is bottom of the barrel as steady said. I got my baby to Prof. V, so, if shields could gain some ground, it would do wonders to change that order. Could we get actual numbers Rattati? How out used/sold is the Scrambler. A list of 1-4 is great, but hard numbers are better. Also, Officer Scramblers please (with an Assault Variant too). Yep, EHP stacking with Plates is creating an imbalance in the whole ecosystem Would, as has been suggested elsewhere, changing plates to a % increase (Heavies get more HP while Scouts get very little) be doable with the current update plans? Or is that something that would require a patch? That would maybe remedy brick tanking scouts, but not the bigger picture of plate prevalence and lack of variety. There is also lack of incentive to move to higher class plates, as basics are very simple and efficient. You say that, but, I think the Scout changes in 1.8 did help remedy that a bit. I have not a single suit that uses an armor plate (maybe one with a basic reactive, not sure, will look). Dampeners are now a must on most every suit but a heavy (as they're pretty pointless). If Basic plates do a very small increase percentage wise, wouldn't they be less prevelant? A basic plate adds ~14% to an Amarr Heavy, ~16% to a Gallente Heavy, ~19.5% to a Minmatar Heavy, and 21.7% to a Caldari Heavy. You get a larger bump the less logic is to put it on the suit. On the Scout end, an Amarr Scout gets a 50% increase in armor, the Gallente gets ~65% increase, while the Minmatar and Caldari share a ~121% increase to their armor pools. This is all off of base health, which is how I'd assume the Plates would work. Just for context, if plates went percentage based, an Amarr gains 22.5% max armor for one complex plate. You could make Plates a 10%/15%/20% or 15%/20%/25% increase. Of course, we could just look at Shield Extenders and make them viable (cough, advanced are crap, cough) sorry, a couple coworkers have been getting sick and I think I may have caught what they have. I think I'm over Dust now...
Appia Nappia 705	Posted - 2014.05.16 15:56:00 - [18] - Quote Completely forgot. Combat Rifle will always be vastly superior because of the highest rate of fire. Stun Lock / seize mechanic exists and was confirmed. As long as being damaged slows you down the combat rifle with a higher rate of fire will slow you down more and lock you into place. Secretly Appia Vibbia If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3070	Posted - 2014.05.16 15:57:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line The Tac AR used to dominate, even in CQC. Hip dispersion was increased so it went back to short tange sniping, but it has a place in firefights, just like the Scrambler, so let's put ideas on the table. Back then we didnt have the RR and the CR, and damage mods massively increased the problem, also the Tac rifle didnt over heat, . The only similararty between the 2 is they are both singleshot . I agree if u removed the overheat the ScR would be instantly overpowered but with the overheat its still useless as a frontline rifle. And im drawing on nostop using it since it was introduced. I have no soultions though its the overheat and charge function that force its support wepone playstyle, the single shot nature is not a factor "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 703	Posted - 2014.05.16 16:04:00 - [20] - Quote Appia Nappia wrote: Completely forgot. Combat Rifle will always be vastly superior because of the highest rate of fire. Stun Lock / seize mechanic exists and was confirmed. As long as being damaged slows you down the combat rifle with a higher rate of fire will slow you down more and lock you into place. I completely agree, though I can't imagine "Stun Lock" being an adjustable database value server-side. Its much more likely one of those things -- like sticky terrain and 2" curbs -- that we're just going to have to accept and attempt to mitigate.

Y-BLOCK BioCyberDevelopment 8	Posted - 2014.05.16 16:14:00 - [21] - Quote SR & CR SR..Lower time to overheat. CR..I feel is fine, only weapon than can effectively do some damage to a heavy other than the RR. Dont nerf the CR!!
Starfire Revo DUST University Ivy League 247	Posted - 2014.05.16 16:15:00 - [22] - Quote What Nappia said about damage profiles is spot on, projectile based weapons are at an advantage because of their superior damage profile. Scrambler rifles are in a pretty good place, their low usage could come from the heat mechanic making them harder to use and their name being really, really dumb. Renaming them to 'Pulse Rifles' might see an increase in usage. I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 14	Posted - 2014.05.16 16:28:00 - [23] - Quote Starfire Revo wrote: What Nappia said about damage profiles is spot on, projectile based weapons are at an advantage because of their superior damage profile. Scrambler rifles are in a pretty good place, their low usage could come from the heat mechanic making them harder to use and their name being really, really dumb. Renaming them to 'Pulse Rifles' might see an increase in usage. the name scrambler came from the pistol, it got bonus critical damage for head shots, hence scrambling your brains. i think the heat mechanic is fine where it is, it's a skill shot weapon that takes time to learn how to use properly without killing yourself, i like that in a weapon. it encourages weapon discipline instead of just spraying everywhere like an idiot. i wish other weapons were like that.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3311	Posted - 2014.05.16 16:42:00 - [24] - Quote Starfire Revo wrote: What Nappia said about damage profiles is spot on, projectile based weapons are at an advantage because of their superior damage profile. Scrambler rifles are in a pretty good place, their low usage could come from the heat mechanic making them harder to use and their name being really, really dumb. Renaming them to 'Pulse Rifles' might see an increase in usage. Ok, no. Anyway, ScR has always been atypical and a little bit niche because the overheat mechanic discourages the spamming spray and pray "technique" most players use, and makes it more of a skill-based weapon in that you at least have to have a tiny bit of situational awareness to use it properly. People also have the concept that you need to have the Amarr assault suit to make it shine, which is only partly true. That said, the reason ScR are not used more now is purely due to the damage profile, especially when you factor in the changes to the proficiency skills. Proficiency 5 ScR used to be a beast, now it's really no better than prof 2 because anyone but a Cal sentinel's shields are going to evaporate with a charged shot no matter what. Combine that with the fact that it no longer holds a range advantage like it did over the AR and there's little point to using it. I know I switched to the CR because it's damage profile is vastly superior and as a logi, the absurdly low fitting costs alone made it a no-brainer. The Amarr logi suit simply does not have enough PG to make using the ScR viable, and that's coming from an Amarr loyalist. My suggestion: 1) The OP's ideas are spot on, for one. 2) A tweak to the damage profiles of projectile and laser weapons like Appia suggests would make the ScR more viable. However, I might suggest 15/15 for laser weapons to start: if you changed the profile of the LR to be 10/10 that thing would become death incarnat... wait... looks at huge inventory of laz0r rilfes... I've said too much. 10/10 sounds good. I... I was never here. Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13385	Posted - 2014.05.16 16:46:00 - [25] - Quote I feel that some of this thread is relevant: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146201&find=unread You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2413	Posted - 2014.05.16 16:56:00 - [26] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: However, I might suggest 15/15 for laser weapons to start: if you changed the profile of the LR to be 10/10 that thing would become death incarnat... wait... looks at huge inventory of laz0r rilfes... I've said too much. 10/10 sounds good. I... I was never here. lol +2 Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
iliel Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 50	Posted - 2014.05.16 17:17:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This will be interesting. First I would like to get relative parity or usage between the racial variants, within each class (std, adv, pro) and leave the gallente variants and other race full auto variants out of the picture (for a time being) That said, currently these rifles are in relative balance, sorted from most consumed to least. Rail Rifles Combat Rifles Plasma (GA) Rifles Scrambler Rifles Data says that Scramblers are either considerably worse or inhabit a radically different role on the battlefield. Plasma rifles also need love, but not much by the numbers. If UP against the others, please post suggestions. My personal experience is that the Assault CR is considerably better than the Duvolle at most ranges. Something I don't like having specced fully into all Plasma rifle proficiencies Discuss Scramblers aren't used because it takes more skill to use them. Do the same statistical analysis with a differentiation of the assualt and tactical variants of weapons and you'll see what I mean. Also, please don't nerf a gun while buffing another - - especially it's competition. If the AR needs a buff, so be it; but the CR does not need a nerf.
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 17	Posted - 2014.05.16 17:30:00 - [28] - Quote iliel wrote: Scramblers aren't used because it takes more skill to use them. Do the same statistical analysis with a differentiation of the assualt and tactical variants of weapons and you'll see what I mean. hence why i love the SCR
Starfire Revo DUST University Ivy League 249	Posted - 2014.05.16 17:40:00 - [29] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: [quote=Starfire Revo]What Nappia said about damage profiles is spot on, projectile based weapons are at an advantage because of their superior damage profile. Scrambler rifles are in a pretty good place, their low usage could come from the heat mechanic making them harder to use and their name being really, really dumb. Renaming them to 'Pulse Rifles' might see an increase in usage. Combine that with the fact that it no longer holds a range advantage like it did over the AR and there's little point to using it./quote] On the range advantage note, I'm looking at the effective ranges now. The AR sits at 65/71.5/78m and the ScR sits at 80/88/96m according to Protofits. So ScRs have roughly 23% more effective range compared to assaults. The only reference to optimal ranges I could find tells a similar story. The damage profile thing is more to do with CRs being too good with their profile and armour being straight up better than shields right now. I've been using the ScR recently and it tears shield users to shreds, there's just so few people using shields right now that it has issues. Quote: the name scrambler came from the pistol, it got bonus critical damage for head shots, hence scrambling your brains. I know that, but the rifle doesn't get the same bonus. The Magsec SMG, the Bolt Pistol and the Rail Rifle function in a similar manner but also have different names, I don't see why the Amarr weapons should follow that same pattern. I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 17	Posted - 2014.05.16 17:48:00 - [30] - Quote Starfire Revo wrote: I know that, but the rifle doesn't get the same bonus. The Magsec SMG, the Bolt Pistol and the Rail Rifle function in a similar manner but also have different names, I don't see why the Amarr weapons should follow that same pattern. yes i know... maybe they were lazy?

Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 870	Posted - 2014.05.16 17:59:00 - [31] - Quote That combat riffle is almost the only weapon you see in PC. It's OP and needs some slight adjusting. I leave it to others to figure out the specifics. Edit: Only AR type weapon, you see HMG's and SG's. But the vast majority of a kill feed is the CR. CCP continues to make the wrong choices, one choice at a time. aka Legion.
JP Acuna Pendejitos Zero-Day 155	Posted - 2014.05.16 18:17:00 - [32] - Quote Every weapon, except the CR, feels fairly balanced today. The CR feels too OP. Too many bursts without delay, and the ACR hits like an HMG with greater range. Add a cloak and better mobility and it's awfully OP. Too much damage. About Scramblers: they are ok due to their high damage with the charge shot option. Overheat is good, and makes sense for the Amarr assault bonus, which is one of the best bonuses. Reliability on sidearm is key when fighting armor. I've been using ScR a lot lately, and i must say i don't even fall short of ammo. ARs feel a little weak, but i think it's just because of the CR's state. I still get kills with it. RRs got fixed in 1.8 in my opinion. Still powerful in its intended range.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15052	Posted - 2014.05.16 18:47:00 - [33] - Quote There was also a complaint on the CR's use of a scope for its supposive range while the LR only has a lense to work with. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 634	Posted - 2014.05.16 18:53:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line The Tac AR used to dominate, even in CQC. Hip dispersion was increased so it went back to short tange sniping, but it has a place in firefights, just like the Scrambler, so let's put ideas on the table. The problem with the TAC AR the RoF was nerfed a little to much and into an odd tempo. 400 rpm is below what most people can pull with their figure and the tempo doesn't sit naturally in your mind. Raise it to 480 and it will be used again. Decrease damage accordingly to keep the DPS the same. Whether you realize it or not, you mind is time conditioned on two fronts, 4/4 time signature due to most 20th and 21st century music, and seconds. 400 rpm is the rhythmic equivalent of triplets at 120 bpm ( 2 beats per second so the most natural of tempos your mind operates in, tic toc, tic toc) . Unless you are someone who only listens to polka, that is not going to naturally feel right to you. 480 rpm is the equivalent of 16th notes at 120, which is a tempo your mind will sync right into. What this causes is misfires buy the rifle and dismisses it's potential because you are naturally wanting to, and are more than capable of, 'rushing' the tempo. YouTube
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3316	Posted - 2014.05.16 18:53:00 - [35] - Quote Starfire Revo wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Starfire Revo wrote: What Nappia said about damage profiles is spot on, projectile based weapons are at an advantage because of their superior damage profile. Scrambler rifles are in a pretty good place, their low usage could come from the heat mechanic making them harder to use and their name being really, really dumb. Renaming them to 'Pulse Rifles' might see an increase in usage. Combine that with the fact that it no longer holds a range advantage like it did over the AR and there's little point to using it. On the range advantage note, I'm looking at the effective ranges now. The AR sits at 65/71.5/78m and the ScR sits at 80/88/96m according to Protofits. So ScRs have roughly 23% more effective range compared to assaults. The only reference to optimal ranges I could find tells a similar story. Sorry, will clarify: I was speaking of the pre-1.7 era, before the CR and RR came out. You are correct that it still outranges the AR, but the ScR no longer has the longest range among standard rifles. Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
Earl Crushinator Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 209	Posted - 2014.05.16 18:55:00 - [36] - Quote AR (Plasma Rifles) need a niche to fit in. I find they're best suited for when you're fighting in a building going from room to room.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 233	Posted - 2014.05.16 20:45:00 - [37] - Quote Maybe Armor plate slowness modifers should be different depending on the suit. Heavy suits are built to carry the weight ,light and medium suits are not designed to carry the weight. So a scout suit could be greatly slowed down if this were to change. Something to think about.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 431	Posted - 2014.05.16 21:35:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Yep, EHP stacking with Plates is creating an imbalance in the whole ecosystem I have a fundamental question: Why do you have damage profiles, in the first place? They make sense for vehicles, where active modules allow tactical retreats and the time to kill is so long that you have time to think about your life choices. But infantry combat lasts seconds for each encounter. There is no time to think "Oh, wait, he's a Minmatar who decided to armor tank! Better go to a supply depot and get myself a Mass Driver! It's a Minmatar - He can't exactly outrun me, can he?", there is only time to think "**, his HP barely goes down. RUN! Oh, **, he shot me in the back.". And now you also say that this mechanic is the root for heavy imbalances. So why do you keep it? It's not like shield and armor would suddenly lose diversity if Scrambler Rifles were equally effective against armor and shields. In fact, you'd now be free to use the tanking style and gun most appropriate to the situation, instead of artificially being handicapped depending on which random weapon/armor combo one of your opponents decided to use. Remove the damage profiles and you suddenly disconnect the balance issues of the rifles from the balance issues of the tanking styles. And balancing variables on their own is also easier than interlinked systems.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9741	Posted - 2014.05.16 21:36:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Data says that Scramblers are either considerably worse or inhabit a radically different role on the battlefield. Plasma rifles also need love, but not much by the numbers. If UP against the others, please post suggestions. My personal experience is that the Assault CR is considerably better than the Duvolle at most ranges. Something I don't like having specced fully into all Plasma rifle proficiencies Discuss I feel like the reason for the SCR is not it being underpowered, rather it being difficult (but rewarding) to use. However, with the existence of the CR, that difficulty isn't rewarded, since the damage the CR can do is pretty much equal, but without the harsh overheat mechanics. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9741	Posted - 2014.05.16 21:46:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line The Tac AR used to dominate, even in CQC. Hip dispersion was increased so it went back to short tange sniping, but it has a place in firefights, just like the Scrambler, so let's put ideas on the table. The problems: It's weaker than the SCR despite having a LOT less range (it was even nerfed in 1.7) It has worse hip fire than SCR It has a longer reload time It has more recoil It has a much lower cap on fire rate And you might say "but it doesn't have overheat!", however, the SCR takes 18 shots to overheat. You know the clip size of the TAC AR? 18. So... You gain nothing. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

OgTheEnigma The Rainbow Effect 183	Posted - 2014.05.16 21:51:00 - [41] - Quote I'm primarily a Scrambler Rifle user and my suggestions on how to improve it are related to how the overheat mechanics work. Previously, my main fitting combined a shield tanked Caldari Assault with the Scrambler rifle, which I was generally quite successful with. The damage nerf to guns in 1.8 made my original fitting fairly redundant and forced me to switch to Amarr Assault to still be viable with the Scrambler. My opinions in this post are mainly in relation to using the gun with level 5 Amarr Assault in the current build. First of all, 'heat buildup to damage ratio' (for lack of a better term) is heavily weighted to making to making uncharged shots much more efficient in terms of the damage produced before overheating. Right now the gun is perhaps too easy to spam hipfire shots at close range. Personally I feel that lowering the accuracy would make the Scrambler much less fun and satisfying to use, so instead, my proposal in this area is to increase the heat buildup of uncharged shots. I don't want to over-nerf the gun at close range either, so I believe an uncharged shot heat increase in the region of 10% to 20% would be acceptable. This may be anecdotal, but currently most of the hatemail I receive on the ground is from people I killed at close range with rapid fire shots (I definitely don't use a turbo controller :p). Naturally, the other two kinds of shots that the Scrambler can produce are partially charged and fully charged, which I will address now: Fully charged shots, in my opinion, are the most balanced mode of the Scrambler in relation to heat buildup. Currently with the Amarr Assault, I can follow up 3 or 4 max charge shots, with a second or so delay between each shot as I line them up (not including the time taken to charge up). As this is the most alpha damage attack method with the gun, I primarily use it at medium to long range whilst popping in and out of cover if I'm under fire. It works great against low ehp scouts, but struggles a lot against armour tanked mediums and heavys. Overall I feel that the fully charged shot is in a good place, not too overpowered (except maybe against scouts) and produces a very viable combat strategy over medium range. I believe the fully charge shot is best when you have plenty of time and space to line up shots and is great for getting a surprise kill on enemies who are already wounded. The heat buildup is large enough to prevent overuse of the full charge so I don't think it needs to be altered in any way. Partially charged shots are where my main concern lies. Right now, this is the one firing method which causes me to overheat more than anything else. I believe this firing method takes the most skill to continuously hit enemies with, but the overheat drawback is way too high. If the overheat penalty of partially charged shots is reduced then I believe it will reward skilful play better and make the using the Scrambler more attractive in its role as a medium range weapon, especially if combined with increased heat buildup of uncharged shots. I'd even advocated raising the overheat of fully charged shots to compensate for reduced overheat of partially charged ones. This may even introduce a risk/reward element where it's best to fire a fraction of a second just before fully charging, but this of course requires a certain amount of timing and skill to pull off consistently. It would also reduce the attractiveness of holding on to a fully charged shot for a period of time without firing (which some people have complained about being OP in the past). Finally I think it would be a good idea to reduce laser weaponry heat buildup on non-Amarr Assault dropsuits. Currently the Amarr Assault gets a 25% heat reduction at max level. This should be changed to 10% max (at 2% per level). I'm not proposing to nerf the Amarr Assault in any way, but to buff the baseline heat reduction so that a 10% bonus will be equivalent to the current 25% bonus. This will go a long way to making the Scrambler viable on other dropsuits, but still providing a nice racial bonus for people wanting to max out the weapon. Well I'm done. Sorry if it sounds like a bit of a ramble, but I absolutely love the Scrambler Rifle, perhaps more than any other gun in dozens of other FPSs I've played. I only want to see the best for it, without the weapon becoming too weak or too powerful (I have a strange sense of pride over how its the most niche primary rifle in Dust). I do want to emphasise the alterations I suggested to partially charged shots; it's the single area of the gun I feel needs the most improvement. Hopefully a few people are interested in what I've got to say and I welcome any criticism or alterations to my suggestions.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9741	Posted - 2014.05.16 21:53:00 - [42] - Quote Note: SCR charge + spam to finish off the target is still REALLY damn effective on the Amarr Assault. You kill things faster than anything else, other than insta kill weaponry of course. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10798	Posted - 2014.05.16 22:14:00 - [43] - Quote The 4 racial assault rifles are meant to be the races' main general purpose rifles. This mean restricting one to too narrow a niche does not make sense. Before the 1.8 damage and proficiency, the scrambler rifle felt right; it was versatile enough to be used in close range with the right amount of practice, and investments into Amarr assault dropsuit. I still have proficiency level 5 on my scrambler rifle, and Amarr assault level 5, and I still feel I am much better off with a combat rifle with level 1 operation skill. The scrambler rifle's current pros are far outweighed by their cons. The standard SCR does 65 per shot The standard CR does 81 per burst To make up for the damage difference, the SCR has a charge shot that takes 2 seconds to fully charge, and a bit longer range (the combat rifle is right behind the SCR in range among the 4 racial assault rifles). I could be argued that these factors make them balanced against each other, but there is also the harsh overheat penalty; the overheat means you cannot run, you cannot switch weapons, and you damage yourself, it is far worse than any reload. A CR can fire 18 bursts before quickly reloading without a problem, while a SCR can only fire about 15 quick shots before being paralyzed by overheat. On top of the overheat being a major problem for SCR users, there is the damage profiles. The combat rifle and all projectile weapons has a -5% damage against shields, and a +10% damage to armor; usually damage profiles' deficiencies and bonuses to shields/armor add up to 0, but the projectiles have a net 5% gain. The scrambler rifle has a net 0 gain from its damage profile (+20% shields, -20% armor), but the problem is in the prevalence of armor tanking. From the SCR's 65 damage per shot, only 52 actually is actually dealt on armor, while the CR's 81 damage per burst becomes 89.1 against armor. Shield tanking needs to be more attractive; basic and enhanced shield extenders are useless. Even to shield tankers, armor modules are much more useful than shield regulators. Currently shield extenders are 22 at basic (1 shot and its gone), 33 enhanced (one shot and its likely gone), and 66 at complex (good). The complex is 100% better than the advanced, the scaling is clearly wrong. Shield extenders should instead be 44 standard, 55 enhanced, and 66 complex. Shield regulators need a serious buff on all tiers, they need to be preferable to stacking plates if you are shield tanking. Currently they are 10% at basic, 20% at enhanced (huge jump), and 25% at complex (tiny jump). The scaling is clearly wrong. Shield regulators should instead be 20% basic, 30% enhanced, and 40% at complex. The scrambler rifle needs to be a useful versatile weapon, not restricted to just a low range sniper. If a comprehensive solution won't be done, then I suppose a simple damage buff might do it. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10798	Posted - 2014.05.16 22:22:00 - [44] - Quote I wrote this thread on rife balance a long while ago, I feel it somewhat relevant now. Categorical balance by firing type. Will copy paste: For background, I think it is necessary that everyone understands what is meant by *type, & CCP's plan for the racial "assault rifles" before moving forward. This is a quote from CCP Remnant on what rifle types and variants. "The idea being that each race will have it's base variant be Assault (Gallente), Burst (Minmatar), Breach (Caldari) or Tactical (Amarr) and then the variants are a specific race's take on the others using their own tech. So, you'd get an Assault Rail Rifle that attempts to somewhat mimic the behavior of the Gallente Assault Rifle and a Tactical Assault Rifle that attempts to mimic the Amarr Scrambler Rifle and so on." It is also important to know the ranges of weapons of different damage profiles. Can be found here, from 1.7 weapon dev blog. Assault type* AR (hybrid-plasma damage profile: short range) Assault SCR (laser damage profile: medium to long range) Assault RR (hybrid-railgun damage profile: long range) Assault CR (projectile damage profile: short-medium range) Tactical type SCR (laser: medium to long range) Tactical AR (hybrid-plasma: short range) Future tactical variants for RR (hybrid-railgun: long range) Future tactical variants for CR (projectile: short-medium range) Burst type CR (projectile: short-medium range) Burst AR (hybrid-plasma: short range) Future burst variants for RR (hybrid-railgun: long range) Future burst variants for SCR (laser: medium to long range) Breach type RR (hybrid-railgun: long range) Breach AR (hybrid-plasma: short range) Future breach variants for SCR (laser: medium to long range) Future breach variants for CR (projectile: short-medium range) [Comparison] So we have identified the types, & their comparative ranges (short to long, everything in between) within the type. Now lets compare the rifles by type using 1.8 stats. All stats prototype. Assault AR: 412.5 DPS, shortest range (45 optimal/78 effective) aCR: 420, short-medium range (56/84) aSCR: 420.59, medium-long range (56/90) aRR: 400, longest range (75/102) Tactical tAR: 462 DPS (acheivable without modded controller), 69.3 damage per shot, restrictive ROF (you can tap R1 faster than it can shoot). Shortest range range (57/84) SCR: 841.17 DPS (not acheivable without modded controller), 71.5 damage per shot, non-restricive ROF. Medium-long range (75/96) Burst buAR: 474.38 DPS, shortest range (50/78) CR: 594 DPS, short-medium range (67/84) Breach brAR: 330, shortest range (46/78) RR: 397.69, longest range (75/102) [Conclusion] The assault-SCR (aSCR) is OP compared to the AR; has both more DPS, on top of more range. Perhaps if the aSCR had overheat play a bigger factor, it would be balanced. The assault-CR (aCR) is OP compared to the AR; has both more DPS, on top of more range. The assault-RR (aRR) does have less damage per second in exchange for range, but it gets 30 meters more optimal to deal full damage in exchange for only 12.5 less damage per second. The aRR gets the much better end of the deal. The spool-up time may be enough to balance things. The tactical-AR (tAR) sucks compared to the SCR. SCR has more damage per shot, more rate of fire, way more range, the charge shot ability, better hipfire accuracy; unless you're really really bad at managing overheat, there is no reason to use the tac AR over the SCR. The burst-AR (buAR) sucks compare to the CR. CR has more massively more DPS, & more range. The breach-AR (brAR) sucks compared to the RR. Less range, less DPS, less magazine size, there's just no reason to ever use the breach AR. While not of the same type, the AR & RR are comparable because they are both automatic. The AR has about 14 points more damage per second, but the RR gets 30 meters more optimal range to do full damage in. While it is a tradeoff, it seems far from equitable; the RR gets the better end of that deal. All weapons of the AR family pretty much suck. [Solutions] Rifles need to be balanced against others of the same type: the tac AR balanced against the SCR, or assault CR against the AR, etc. The main thing is the DPS vs range is not something CCP seems to actively think of as a tradeoff for weapons. Generally (meaning not always, yes there are other factors) If a weapon has more DPS than another of the same type, it should have less range; likewise, if a weapon has less range, it should have more DPS. The AR weapon family has the least ranges within whatever type they are in, they should have the highest DPS within their types. The CR family has the 2nd least ranges within whatever type they are in, they should have the 2nd highest DPS within their types. The SCR family has the 2nd most ranges within whatever type they are in, they should have the 2nd lowest DPS within their types. Overheat should be factored in as well. The RR family has the most ranges within whatever type they are in, they should have the lowest DPS within their types. Spool up time should also be factored. The assault family as a whole needs a serious buff. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
RECON BY FIRE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 396	Posted - 2014.05.16 22:34:00 - [45] - Quote The Plasma rifle needs more damage, not ROF. Hybrids are higher damage but slower ROF weapons. The quicksand effect needs to be done away with before touching the Combat Rifle's ROF or damage. I still contend that without that effect the CR would not be nearly as effective. However, the burst interval does need tweaking. Stuff....?
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5649	Posted - 2014.05.17 01:14:00 - [46] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line The Tac AR used to dominate, even in CQC. Hip dispersion was increased so it went back to short tange sniping, but it has a place in firefights, just like the Scrambler, so let's put ideas on the table. Right now there is absolutely no reason to use a Tac AR when you can use the Scrambler Rifle. I honestly think the scrambler rifle is in a good place if not for the damage/rate of fire peculiarity that has bugged me since Uprising's release in that the vanilla Scrambler Rifle has twice the damage and the same rate of fire as the Assault Scrambler Rifle. Technically, the only thing stopping it from being over-powered as hell is the fact that it has overheat. Compared to the Tac AR it's absolutely no contest. You get more damage per round, both are geared toward shield users so you're better off using the scrambler anyway, you get -dramatically- more rounds in the magazine, the ability to charge it up for three times the normal damage (it's actually like 2.9x) and the fire rate is just insane. Edit: Also more range. Though some would argue that the SCR's fitting costs make a significant impact for all of those, but I personally think that the Tac AR should be viable in it's own right despite that. Needs much higher damage to justify all of it's cons. In this video, I used a Tac AR and a Templar SCR on an Amarr Sentinel (no bonuses to either weapon) and spamming the fire button, the SCR can pump out more rounds before over-heating than the Tac AR even has in it's magazine. Remember, each round does more damage and has a faster fire rate, so there's no sense in even using the Tac AR. (I'd like to note that I do not use a modded controller, despite it sounding like I do). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXeML0Zu9tQ This, coupled with the fact that the Tac AR has received a range nerf in 1.7 and a damage nerf in 1.8, leaves much to be desired with the weapon. At any rate, yes - I personally feel like the SCR is in a good place as the common complaint is that it has hell going through armor users, which is good because that doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong with the weapon, just that something is wrong with armor (plates). I personally -like- that laser based weaponry has hell going through armor in the first place because it actually puts some thought behind the player's actions instead of the general assumption that because the gun does damage, it can kill anything. It's more Rock/Paper/Scissors, imo... ...but I understand that not everyone agrees with me on this. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Y-BLOCK BioCyberDevelopment 9	Posted - 2014.05.17 02:12:00 - [47] - Quote All Rifles There is no point to skill up for the prototype of any rifle when the damage difference is only a point and a half more than the enhanced version!!
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 18	Posted - 2014.05.17 02:34:00 - [48] - Quote Y-BLOCK wrote: All Rifles There is no point to skill up for the prototype of any rifle when the damage difference is only a point and a half more than the enhanced version!! sure there is, unlock the proficency bonus then go back to using enhanced, it works great!
Jace Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 62	Posted - 2014.05.17 03:36:00 - [49] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line The Tac AR used to dominate, even in CQC. Hip dispersion was increased so it went back to short tange sniping, but it has a place in firefights, just like the Scrambler, so let's put ideas on the table. The problem with the TAC AR the RoF was nerfed a little to much and into an odd tempo. 400 rpm is below what most people can pull with their figure and the tempo doesn't sit naturally in your mind. Raise it to 480 and it will be used again. Decrease damage accordingly to keep the DPS the same. Whether you realize it or not, you mind is time conditioned on two fronts, 4/4 time signature due to most 20th and 21st century music, and seconds. 400 rpm is the rhythmic equivalent of triplets at 120 bpm ( 2 beats per second so the most natural of tempos your mind operates in, tic toc, tic toc) . Unless you are someone who only listens to polka, that is not going to naturally feel right to you. 480 rpm is the equivalent of 16th notes at 120, which is a tempo your mind will sync right into. What this causes is misfires buy the rifle and dismisses it's potential because you are naturally wanting to, and are more than capable of, 'rushing' the tempo. This explains why I have never had trouble with the Tac AR Did high school marching band for 5 years. Our Book was mostly triplets. Quarter note triplets, sixlets, and triplet excerises at 180. God I miss drumline. Don't tell anyone, but I'm secretly a Ghost.
Kierkegaard Soren Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 458	Posted - 2014.05.17 04:10:00 - [50] - Quote Interesting to hear about the scrambler rifle being the least used at of those listed. It's a hard one to balance, though, because it's base stats are pretty fearsome. It's limited by the heat mechanic and, to a lesser extent, its damage profile. Even small tweaks could make it potentially OP. My suggestion would be to "clone" damage modules and re-purpose I to heat sinks that function exactly like the Amarr assault bonus. That way suits can specialise into making the scram really nasty, at the cost of using up high slots for tank etc. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9764	Posted - 2014.05.17 08:49:00 - [51] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: The Plasma rifle needs more damage, not ROF. Hybrids are higher damage but slower ROF weapons. The quicksand effect needs to be done away with before touching the Combat Rifle's ROF or damage. I still contend that without that effect the CR would not be nearly as effective. However, the burst interval does need tweaking. No actually, hybrid blasters are extremely close to autocannons in terms of fire rate. The most difference there is when it comes to the light variants is 1 second. But the blasters do double the damage, yes double, at the cost of half the range. (Though higher optimal) So how it would be in DUST is: 1100 RPM 60 damage per shot 43 effective range 38 optimal range Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 234	Posted - 2014.05.17 11:02:00 - [52] - Quote You know what's funny about this thread is that the Laser Rifle is still no good when compared to the next weakest gun of the game. Its so broken still you guys are not even bringing it up when comparing weapons.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9769	Posted - 2014.05.17 11:58:00 - [53] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: You know what's funny about this thread is that the Laser Rifle is still no good when compared to the next weakest gun of the game. Its so broken still you guys are not even bringing it up when comparing weapons. It's actually an excellent weapon, I have no clue what's your problem with it. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Grimmiers 547	Posted - 2014.05.17 12:42:00 - [54] - Quote This was copied from the "This is how bad the assault rifle is" thread. Grimmiers wrote: Rifles shouldn't really outperform each other, but behave differently and have different profiles. It seems like ccp is balancing guns on opposing races only instead of just adding a bit of their flavor to the assault rifle class. Amarrs are heavily tanked suits and can have a ton of shields and armor so they made the combat rifle able to take out shields and armor in the same ratio the average amarr would tank on his suit. The gallente assault rifle was made to kill caldari suits which we all know are shield tanked and have a smaller ehp. This already creates and imbalance because any gun designed to kill a suit with high shield and armor tanking potential in this game would be the best gun to use. Another factor is the two playstyles promoted by each race. Caldari and Gallente weapons are meant for long and close range tracking while the Amarr and Minmatar are use for long and short range burst damage. I think this alone is enough of a difference for the weapons and damage should be much closer than it is for each weapon. The damage output of the combat rifle and the gallente rifle should be much closer. We also should remember that shields have a much faster regeneration so a high damage to shields isn't as devastating as high damage to armor after the dust settles. As for the different variants of the Assault rifles I always thought they should be removed until they have an equivalent for the other rifles. For an alternate gallente weapon I would like a breach assault rifle with a scope, longer range, and an rpm of 500 to mimic the rail rifle. The proto breach ar with the same damage and an increased 500 rpm actually has the same damage of the devolle doing 412.5 damage a second which is more than the rr, but with less range.
Musta Tornius Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1352	Posted - 2014.05.17 13:02:00 - [55] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Luther Mandrix wrote: You know what's funny about this thread is that the Laser Rifle is still no good when compared to the next weakest gun of the game. Its so broken still you guys are not even bringing it up when comparing weapons. It's actually an excellent weapon, I have no clue what's your problem with it. The Laser is stronger than it ever has been, except maybe that bug with the viziam back in chromosome. But overall it's in really good shape atm.
Starfire Revo DUST University Ivy League 253	Posted - 2014.05.17 13:52:00 - [56] - Quote Musta Tornius wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Luther Mandrix wrote: You know what's funny about this thread is that the Laser Rifle is still no good when compared to the next weakest gun of the game. Its so broken still you guys are not even bringing it up when comparing weapons. It's actually an excellent weapon, I have no clue what's your problem with it. The Laser is stronger than it ever has been, except maybe that bug with the viziam back in chromosome. But overall it's in really good shape atm. The lasers biggest weakness right now is that people are favouring armour over shields at the moment. I tend to bring it out to fight people who are normally just out of range of other rifles and it works great. On a different note, do the consumption figures include BPOs? I realized after my earlier posts that the 2 least consumed rifles are also the rifles that have BPO variants. I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
Aerys II Targaryen Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 13	Posted - 2014.05.17 14:42:00 - [57] - Quote Jace Kaisar wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line The Tac AR used to dominate, even in CQC. Hip dispersion was increased so it went back to short tange sniping, but it has a place in firefights, just like the Scrambler, so let's put ideas on the table. The problem with the TAC AR the RoF was nerfed a little to much and into an odd tempo. 400 rpm is below what most people can pull with their figure and the tempo doesn't sit naturally in your mind. Raise it to 480 and it will be used again. Decrease damage accordingly to keep the DPS the same. Whether you realize it or not, you mind is time conditioned on two fronts, 4/4 time signature due to most 20th and 21st century music, and seconds. 400 rpm is the rhythmic equivalent of triplets at 120 bpm ( 2 beats per second so the most natural of tempos your mind operates in, tic toc, tic toc) . Unless you are someone who only listens to polka, that is not going to naturally feel right to you. 480 rpm is the equivalent of 16th notes at 120, which is a tempo your mind will sync right into. What this causes is misfires buy the rifle and dismisses it's potential because you are naturally wanting to, and are more than capable of, 'rushing' the tempo. This explains why I have never had trouble with the Tac AR Did high school marching band for 5 years. Our Book was mostly triplets. Quarter note triplets, sixlets, and triplet excerises at 180. God I miss drumline. It almost explains it, but the math isn't quite right. Eight note triplets at 120bpm would be the equivalent of 360rpm, not 400rpm. You're making it sound like the difference is much bigger than it is. So it's a bit faster than triplets at 120bpm, but even if it were exactly triplets, it would only not be feel natural if you don't listen to pop, rock, blues, country, metal, classical...
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3326	Posted - 2014.05.17 15:49:00 - [58] - Quote Musta Tornius wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Luther Mandrix wrote: You know what's funny about this thread is that the Laser Rifle is still no good when compared to the next weakest gun of the game. Its so broken still you guys are not even bringing it up when comparing weapons. It's actually an excellent weapon, I have no clue what's your problem with it. The Laser is stronger than it ever has been, except maybe that bug with the viziam back in chromosome. But overall it's in really good shape atm. Yeah, if you think the LR is weaker than, say, the AR, I'm afraid you are doing it wrong. It has a steeper learning curve than any other weapon and is very situational, for sure. But, if you keep your range and preheat properly (sorry can't link my LR guide anymore since I deleted it.... maybe if Rattati gives me some officer LR's I'll rethink that decision - hint hint) you can melt even a proto amarr sentinel to slag pretty quick. The damn thing puts out a thousand DPS just before overheating for crissake. Caldari suits die even if you just look at them funny! Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries 9772	Posted - 2014.05.17 15:53:00 - [59] - Quote Starfire Revo wrote: Musta Tornius wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Luther Mandrix wrote: You know what's funny about this thread is that the Laser Rifle is still no good when compared to the next weakest gun of the game. Its so broken still you guys are not even bringing it up when comparing weapons. It's actually an excellent weapon, I have no clue what's your problem with it. The Laser is stronger than it ever has been, except maybe that bug with the viziam back in chromosome. But overall it's in really good shape atm. The lasers biggest weakness right now is that people are favouring armour over shields at the moment. I tend to bring it out to fight people who are normally just out of range of other rifles and it works great. On a different note, do the consumption figures include BPOs? I realized after my earlier posts that the 2 least consumed rifles are also the rifles that have BPO variants. The laser still noms on armor with a bit of heating. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3326	Posted - 2014.05.17 16:12:00 - [60] - Quote Starfire Revo wrote: The lasers biggest weakness right now is that people are favouring armour over shields at the moment. I tend to bring it out to fight people who are normally just out of range of other rifles and it works great. On a different note, do the consumption figures include BPOs? I realized after my earlier posts that the 2 least consumed rifles are also the rifles that have BPO variants. Yeah, like I said earlier, maybe a change to 15/15 damage profile instead of 20/20 would be nice, more for the ScR, but the LR can still put the fear of God into armor tanked suits. But, the reason I quote you is that you do make a good point, Rattati, if it's possible you might want to look at how many of each weapon are used, as opposed to purchased. I still use my Toxin AR on some of my super-cheap BPO fits, like suicide RE scout fits and the like, but I haven't actually bought an AR in like 4-5 months! I bought some ScR's but very few, I didn't use it much anymore and when I did the Templar is no less effective than the ADV (I never used proto rifles) so there wasn't much point. The BPO's could very well be skewing your numbers. Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski

Starfire Revo DUST University Ivy League 254	Posted - 2014.05.17 17:31:00 - [61] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Yeah, like I said earlier, maybe a change to 15/15 damage profile instead of 20/20 would be nice, more for the ScR, but the LR can still put the fear of God into armor tanked suits. Your point here made me realize something as well. The higher the -x%/+x% go, the worse the weapon will perform on average because a negative % will reduce damage the higher the number goes. I tried doing the math for this, but the higher the positive and negative multipliers go, the more shots it will take to kill someone who has equal shield:armour. I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
TRULY ELITE WarRavens Final Resolution. 7	Posted - 2014.05.17 19:15:00 - [62] - Quote It seems there maybe a lot of weapon changes so is it possible a weapon respec will accompany these changes? I think one is long overdue.
TRULY ELITE WarRavens Final Resolution. 7	Posted - 2014.05.17 19:16:00 - [63] - Quote Any thoughts?
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 18	Posted - 2014.05.17 19:16:00 - [64] - Quote TRULY ELITE wrote: It seems there maybe a lot of weapon changes so is it possible a weapon respec will accompany these changes? I think one is long overdue. yes please considering that suits and weapons are affected by each other this should have been done with the suit respec
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3328	Posted - 2014.05.17 19:59:00 - [65] - Quote Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: TRULY ELITE wrote: It seems there maybe a lot of weapon changes so is it possible a weapon respec will accompany these changes? I think one is long overdue. yes please considering that suits and weapons are affected by each other this should have been done with the suit respec Sure, whatever, who cares. Normally I'm anti-respec but considering it's all a moot point anyway, why the f*ck not. (objectively though, these are not massive changes so chill out) Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
TRULY ELITE WarRavens Final Resolution. 7	Posted - 2014.05.17 20:13:00 - [66] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: TRULY ELITE wrote: It seems there maybe a lot of weapon changes so is it possible a weapon respec will accompany these changes? I think one is long overdue. yes please considering that suits and weapons are affected by each other this should have been done with the suit respec Sure, whatever, who cares. Normally I'm anti-respec but considering it's all a moot point anyway, why the f*ck not. (objectively though, these are not massive changes so chill out) Even so, with the RR and CR and the new sidearms we should have got one at the launch of 1.8 and it allows people to spec into their own racial weapons to match they're dropsuits which on some suits, is the only way to access the secondary skill on commandos and assaults.
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 187	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:48:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line *liability Also, the current meta is why the Scrambler is bottom of the barrel as steady said. I got my baby to Prof. V, so, if shields could gain some ground, it would do wonders to change that order. Could we get actual numbers Rattati? How out used/sold is the Scrambler. A list of 1-4 is great, but hard numbers are better. Also, Officer Scramblers please (with an Assault Variant too). Yep, EHP stacking with Plates is creating an imbalance in the whole ecosystem Increase stacking penalties (for all) and remove/reduce passive armour repair for Gallente. Fixed. Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 187	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:05:00 - [68] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: * Combat Rifle - Slightly increase burst interval * Assault Combat Rifle - Slightly decrease Rate of Fire * Plasma (Assault) Rifle - Slightly increase Rate of Fire Rifles are pretty close to being balanced; as close as we've seen to date. The adjustments above will move the top-performers and bottom-performers closer toward the middle. Standard Combat Rifle - increase burst delay Assault Combat Rifle - leave rate of fire - remove/reduce stun-lock effect (from game) - change damage profile to +5%/-5% (All) Rail Rifles - reduce all ranges by 10m (effective, optimal, etc) Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 142	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:21:00 - [69] - Quote Assault rifle ideas: 1- Increase damage and/or rof. But AR needs an increase in damage before RoF. With an AR you can almost get a kill with one clip. Increase the RoF and you will almost get a kill just a bit faster and now be in mid reload when ganked or have run away sooner. 2-AR has shortest range but should have an optimal range for the greater part. So 62m optimal/ 78m effective (~80% range is optimal) instead of 45/78 (~57%). 3-Remove penalty vs armor so damage profile becomes simply +10% vs shields. And now a math lesson.... Some have suggested that damage profile bonuses/penalties cancel out to a net gain/loss. For instance the AR and CR have inverse profiles but both net a +5% gain (+10/-5 and -5/+10 respectively). This is not accurate. Example: Let us consider a super Gal Sent with say 500 shield and 1500 armor. What is its EHP vs an AR and a CR? Against an assault rifle that suit's shields are 10% less effective and its armor is 5% more effective. So we do the math: 500/1500 becomes 450/1575 for a net total 2025 EHP Against a combat rifle that suit's shields are 5% more effective and its armor is 10% less effective. Doing the math: 500/1500 becomes 525/1350 for a net total 1875 EHP Super gal has 2025 EHP vs Assault Rifle and 1875 vs Combat Rifle. Even though the perceived net damage profile gain is +5% for both weapons, the practical effect is much different. Super gal gains 25 ehp against AR but loses 125 ehp against CR. That's a 150 ehp spread between weapons. Now to take it further: -At 594 DPS for a combat rifle, it would take 3.16 seconds to kill that sentinel and it could be done from 67m away. -At 412.5 DPS for an Assault rifle, it would take 4.9 seconds to kill that sentinel and it could only be done from 45m away. -Nearly 2 seconds (1.74= like forever) longer for the AR and at just over half the distance of the CR. That is doubly gimped. -It takes the CR less than a second to eat through its shields despite its penalty against shields where it takes the AR more than a second even with its bonus against shields. This exercise demonstrates two things: >Damage profile net gain/loss does not show the whole picture when applied. >Even though this hypothetical superGallifragilistic sentinel is an extreme example, CPM Rattati stated that armor tanking is the norm. So until its damage is increase, the assault rifle will always be less effective when compared to the others while this is true. AKA - StarVenger
Spankdamonke Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:17:00 - [70] - Quote I would suggest the following actions to help balance things out a bit: GÇó Modify the existing damage profiles (Someone had posted these exact numbers earlier) A) +5 / -5% for Hybrid-Blasters B) -5 / +5% for Hybrid-Railguns C) -10 / +10 for Projectile weapons (adds a marginal bit of balance to CR and HMG) D) +15 / -15% for Laser weapons (makes Laser weaponry more appealing in a game where most players are armor tanked without creating a scenario where all players would opt to take a LR instead if it was reduced to +10 / -10%) GÇó Where individual weapon tweaks are concerned.... 1) Rail rifles- Decrease optimal range slightly (8-10m) 2) Combat rifles- I definitely agree that an increase in burst delay would be effective. As well as others have said, removing the 'Snare Effect' caused by the higher ROF weapons. 3) Plasma Rifles- Increase ROF to 800rpm. (A marginal increase, but this is offset by the changes in damage profiles outlined earlier. And given it's short Optimum range, this would help give it a slight edge in CQC as it would do more DPS than both a RR or ACR by tier) 4) Scrambler Rifles- I would suggest a diminishing damage mechanic instead of a simple Seize / Feedback approach. Wherein, after the rifle reaches it's "overheat point", each subsequent shot will simply do progressively less and less damage until the weapon is allowed to cool. In this way, players do not have to worry about about being punished so severely by an overheat. They can continue to spam out shots, albeit with less damage and thus killing potential. This makes it more appealing to frontline troops, without becoming like the old Tac AR as the new overheat mechanic discourages excessive spam. Coupled with the change in damage profiles, this would again make the ScR a viable choice.

Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1432	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:11:00 - [71] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This will be interesting. First I would like to get relative parity or usage between the racial variants, within each class (std, adv, pro) and leave the gallente variants and other race full auto variants out of the picture (for a time being) That said, currently these rifles are in relative balance, sorted from most consumed to least. Rail Rifles Combat Rifles Plasma (GA) Rifles Scrambler Rifles Data says that Scramblers are either considerably worse or inhabit a radically different role on the battlefield. Plasma rifles also need love, but not much by the numbers. If UP against the others, please post suggestions. My personal experience is that the Assault CR is considerably better than the Duvolle at most ranges. Something I don't like having specced fully into all Plasma rifle proficiencies Discuss I created the following spread sheet in an attempt to build true balance for all the light rifles. Please look it over and comment. I think that using the method on the first tab could be a great way for CCP to work out the balance of these weapons. In this balancing method each of the weapon's stats is assigned a value based upon it being better or worse than the standard gallente AR. Then those stats are modified so that each weapon is unique but all the weighted values end up equalling zero. Please note: You will not be able to modify the spread sheet in any way but you will be able to comment on things by right clicking on a cell and selecting comment. These comments will be used to modify the stats based upon community input. Fun > Realism
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 20	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:27:00 - [72] - Quote The CR is the fast shooter. for AR (plasma) no need to increase the RoF but the dmg. This will make it more gal weapon. this is for all the plasma AR variants. All are short range and to be different from CR do not increase for any of them the RoF but the damage output for all. i was expecting with 1.8 to increase the dmg for breach AR. it has shorter range and lower RoF that RR so soudl compensate with higher dmg per shot and higher stability. Scrambler Rifle - i still use it and love it, but it really have hard time vs armour. maybe we shoud think on the idea to make the prof instead of 3% vs shield to 2% vs both shield and armour??? it has higher DPS but is single shot and fast overhit. i think it is not underpowered but most people are fed up from the overhit during a close fight. to use it we need to learn to control the fire. or decrease of the heat build ??
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2793	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:42:00 - [73] - Quote Yes please to fixing rifles, swarms and plasma cannons (all light weps except for MD). Yes please to full respec when weapon balance is being worked on. This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1434	Posted - 2014.05.18 19:27:00 - [74] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Yes please to fixing rifles, swarms and plasma cannons (all light weps except for MD). Yes please to full respec when weapon balance is being worked on. Knock it off with the respec bs already. Giving respecs has never done anything but helped vets move from one FOTM to another instantly. Also, those requests have absolutely nothing to do with this thread which is achieving balance among the light weapons in DUST514. Fun > Realism
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 99	Posted - 2014.05.18 21:08:00 - [75] - Quote Seriously the whole respec crowd pisses me off. They use any excuse to try to get one. Respecs do nothing but cause trouble with FOTM tryhards plaguing the the game. Half the reason people are getting pissed off with scouts and cloaks is that all the Gal logi tryhards from 1.7 are now running around in tanked scout suits. If my min scout (used since uprising release) or my shotgun (used since the very beginning of open beta) gets nerfed because of it I will not be happy.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1527	Posted - 2014.05.19 00:11:00 - [76] - Quote With the burst CR, I feel that a greatly extended interval between bursts plus a bump to the damage of individual bursts would add to it's "hit and run" feel, but that's just me spitballing. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 MAG Vet ~ Raven R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1042	Posted - 2014.05.19 02:20:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This will be interesting. First I would like to get relative parity or usage between the racial variants, within each class (std, adv, pro) and leave the gallente variants and other race full auto variants out of the picture (for a time being) That said, currently these rifles are in relative balance, sorted from most consumed to least. Rail Rifles Combat Rifles Plasma (GA) Rifles Scrambler Rifles Data says that Scramblers are either considerably worse or inhabit a radically different role on the battlefield. Plasma rifles also need love, but not much by the numbers. If UP against the others, please post suggestions. My personal experience is that the Assault CR is considerably better than the Duvolle at most ranges. Something I don't like having specced fully into all Plasma rifle proficiencies Discuss ScR is UP or less favored, but people complain about the over heat. but in my mind only a skilled amarrian should be able to use it properlly. thats why i love my Alt Account Ark Angel Clone-A since he is an amazing ScR user with lvl 5 amarr assualt and ScR. its more of the, either use it with the proper suit or dont use it at all In Rust We Trust Vherokior Warrior My Honor is for the Republic
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 296	Posted - 2014.05.19 03:21:00 - [78] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line i mentioned this on another thread. the problem is that theres not enough incentive to shield tank. everyone armor tanks and if you noticed, 3 out of the 4 rifle deal great damage... to shield tanks. only two rifles do great damage to armor tanks and one of those rifles does great damage to both shield and armor tanks, has the fastest reloads, the most ammo per clip, the highest ammo reserves, good range, and no recoil. instead of saying the CR is OP (which is definitely is) ask why no one is shield tanking
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 785	Posted - 2014.05.19 06:02:00 - [79] - Quote I can tell you why the Gal AR isn't on the bottom of your list. Because you're counting starter fits...which all have an AR.
Ground Zero420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2014.05.19 10:29:00 - [80] - Quote What if user A uses a weeks worth of user B's weapons in only 1 day? Activity seems like it should be in the equation somewhere. Spartan mk420

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 302	Posted - 2014.05.19 11:24:00 - [81] - Quote after some thought, what about decreasing the combat rifles magazine size? if we cut it by about half how would it be then? it has the fastest reload so it shouldnt also have the such a huge magazine size should it? if combat rifles only had 27 rounds per magazine, then they wouldnt be able to chew through shield tanks without having to reload. the ACR could be cut down to a 40 round magazine. this means hat missing a target is more costly as youll have wasted half you clip without doing anything. the increased reloads would basically be the same as overheating a SCR. you cant keep up continuous fire. then we wouldnt even need to touch the damage. we'd still need to fix the CR and ACR damage profiles only other thing i'd change to the CR is i'd add recoil and dispersion after the 3rd round of each burst. so while firing immediately after a burst would cause that burst to experience increased recoil and dispersion. anything over 3 bursts and you wouldnt be able to hit anything past 10 meters while hipfiring
Phoenix 85 Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 107	Posted - 2014.05.19 17:04:00 - [82] - Quote CR/ACR are fine on minmatar suits where they belong. Only OP when you start putting them on other tankier suits. If you lower ROF, the min suits should get a ROF bonus to compensate. EDUCATE YOURSELF ABOUT PC VS CONSOLE
Lilith Serenity Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 7	Posted - 2014.05.20 00:39:00 - [83] - Quote I feel that all rifles should have been full auto. If project legion is green lit you can make it where you can switch fire mode from full to semi auto with a single press of a button. Variants should be more of what additions are added to the gun instead. Example: Standard PR would be SPR. A scoped variant would be SPR-S. A Variant with a grenade launcher be SPR-G and et cetera for all other racial rifles. On another note, I feel sniper rifles are great atm except we should be able to zoom in and out with all having the same minimum and max zoom. So I don't have to go with tactical to see better are longer distances.
MINA Longstrike 770	Posted - 2014.05.20 01:44:00 - [84] - Quote PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GIVE ME A TACTICAL RAIL RIFLE. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Xx-VxF-xX Void of Faction 15	Posted - 2014.05.20 01:48:00 - [85] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GIVE ME A TACTICAL RAIL RIFLE. Had that before they had the rail rifle. It's the sniper rifle and it even comes in 3 versions ;)
Mordecai Sanguine What The French Red Whines. 683	Posted - 2014.05.20 05:52:00 - [86] - Quote ScR need some "Improvements" like a PG fitting reduction. 11 for STD is way too much.
Marc Rime 402	Posted - 2014.05.20 17:45:00 - [87] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: * Combat Rifle - Slightly increase burst interval Why not just add an over-heat mechanism to it, but one that cools down really fast so it only kicks in if you fire continuous bursts?
Y-BLOCK BioCyberDevelopment 10	Posted - 2014.05.20 17:57:00 - [88] - Quote Dang, u guyz jst finished rebalancing practically every weapon, when does it end? And now jst when we get used to this setup, now u wanna mess with it some more. There will always b butthurt players who complain that a weapon is too this or not enough that; I find that the last weapon balance was pretty well rounded with the exception of the AR & Scrmblr Pstl. For those of us who been playing since closed beta, the awesome weaponry & their effectiveness is part of what prompted us 2 keep playin & looking back it seems that has been going downhill. If ur gonna still do it, jst do it & b done with it..
MINA Longstrike 775	Posted - 2014.05.21 00:57:00 - [89] - Quote Xx-VxF-xX wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GIVE ME A TACTICAL RAIL RIFLE. Had that before they had the rail rifle. It's the sniper rifle and it even comes in 3 versions ;) All of them 1000% useless for anything shorter than 300m away. Tac Rail as I imagine would function like this Semi Auto Prefire charge (0.4sec = 150 RPM) High damage (156 / round at basic = 390 dps +5%/10% at adv & pro) Low magazine size (12-15?) Very similar range profile to standard rail Slightly tweaked optic. I'm not exactly sure what the numbers in regards to dps are for other rifles, but I think this would make it fairly balanced and an unexpectedly 'bursty' rifle. The numbers on this thing though would make it truly terrifying to see in the hands of a caldari commando with damage mods. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Xx-VxF-xX Void of Faction 18	Posted - 2014.05.21 01:53:00 - [90] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Xx-VxF-xX wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GIVE ME A TACTICAL RAIL RIFLE. Had that before they had the rail rifle. It's the sniper rifle and it even comes in 3 versions ;) All of them 1000% useless for anything shorter than 300m away. Tac Rail as I imagine would function like this Semi Auto Prefire charge (0.4sec = 150 RPM) High damage (156 / round at basic = 390 dps +5%/10% at adv & pro) Low magazine size (12-15?) Very similar range profile to standard rail Slightly tweaked optic. I'm not exactly sure what the numbers in regards to dps are for other rifles, but I think this would make it fairly balanced and an unexpectedly 'bursty' rifle. The numbers on this thing though would make it truly terrifying to see in the hands of a caldari commando with damage mods. Sounds good as long as they make it kick like a mule like the tac ar.

CLONE117 True Pros Forever 789	Posted - 2014.05.21 21:11:00 - [91] - Quote should i add that the acr is slightly weaker than the mlt smg?..only it has a faster rof. im not too sure on messing with the plasma rifle other than buffing them back to where the std ar was 31 and so forth. as i dont want rof for the ar messed with. mlt vets are eternal. they shall be the bane to proto scrubs everywhere... dust 514 shall be eternal. pve for dust 514
Sir Dukey SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 894	Posted - 2014.05.22 02:49:00 - [92] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line *liability Also, the current meta is why the Scrambler is bottom of the barrel as steady said. I got my baby to Prof. V, so, if shields could gain some ground, it would do wonders to change that order. Could we get actual numbers Rattati? How out used/sold is the Scrambler. A list of 1-4 is great, but hard numbers are better. Also, Officer Scramblers please (with an Assault Variant too). Yep, EHP stacking with Plates is creating an imbalance in the whole ecosystem Would, as has been suggested elsewhere, changing plates to a % increase (Heavies get more HP while Scouts get very little) be doable with the current update plans? Or is that something that would require a patch? That would maybe remedy brick tanking scouts, but not the bigger picture of plate prevalence and lack of variety. There is also lack of incentive to move to higher class plates, as basics are very simple and efficient. the Proficiency change really hit specialized weapons like SCR and SCP hard because they only do 80% damage instead of the possible 15%, also now that they do less damage it is much easier to overheat trying to kill the enemy. With most suits (even caldari suits) stacking way more armor than shields, it is just not viable to use this weapon. The damage mod nerf, damage nerf, and proficiency nerf made this weapon totally worthless in Armor tank dust 514. Edit: I would like proficiency on certain specialized weapons to be towards the opposite tanking style such as massdriver proficiency gets it 15% shield damage bonus at proficiency level 5.
castba Penguin's March 434	Posted - 2014.05.22 14:05:00 - [93] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line *liability Also, the current meta is why the Scrambler is bottom of the barrel as steady said. I got my baby to Prof. V, so, if shields could gain some ground, it would do wonders to change that order. Could we get actual numbers Rattati? How out used/sold is the Scrambler. A list of 1-4 is great, but hard numbers are better. Also, Officer Scramblers please (with an Assault Variant too). Yep, EHP stacking with Plates is creating an imbalance in the whole ecosystem Would, as has been suggested elsewhere, changing plates to a % increase (Heavies get more HP while Scouts get very little) be doable with the current update plans? Or is that something that would require a patch? That would maybe remedy brick tanking scouts, but not the bigger picture of plate prevalence and lack of variety. There is also lack of incentive to move to higher class plates, as basics are very simple and efficient. Perhaps upping the movement penalty on the normal plates again would lower the amount of brick tanked scouts? Say 4%, 7%, 10%.. or even 4, 8, 12? Hmm, a complex plate negating a complex kin cat. Imagine that!
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 464	Posted - 2014.05.22 14:51:00 - [94] - Quote Phoenix 85 wrote: CR/ACR are fine on minmatar suits where they belong. Only OP when you start putting them on other tankier suits. If you lower ROF, the min suits should get a ROF bonus to compensate. Have been saying this forever - Devs pleas take note. "Shine bright like a diamond"
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 790	Posted - 2014.05.22 21:35:00 - [95] - Quote acr is just a mlt smg that shoots a little faster. nothing more. dust 514 shall be eternal. pve for dust 514. oh look. FF somehow made dust better!.
Ziiro Celeste Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 232	Posted - 2014.05.23 12:19:00 - [96] - Quote For the scrambler, I have prof V and do 139% to shields, the problem is everyone armor tanks and I only do 80% to armor. The scrambler proficiency does nothing to aid it because 120% was already more than high enough. Aisha Ctarl if you didn't know
Firbolg Barun Dust2Dust. Top Men. 6	Posted - 2014.05.23 12:40:00 - [97] - Quote Lilith Serenity wrote: SPR-G Sperg weapon. LOL.
Bayeth Mal OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 384	Posted - 2014.05.23 15:12:00 - [98] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This will be interesting. First I would like to get relative parity or usage between the racial variants, within each class (std, adv, pro) and leave the gallente variants and other race full auto variants out of the picture (for a time being) That said, currently these rifles are in relative balance, sorted from most consumed to least. Rail Rifles Combat Rifles Plasma (GA) Rifles Scrambler Rifles Testing this as anecdotally I disagree with this ranking. Currently performing survey. Edit: Have the data but it's 1am and need to go to bed. Will do basic analysis and post the results in the morning (in about 8 hours) Heading over to Destiny Beta and a few others Hit me up for Skype and PSN
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 33	Posted - 2014.05.23 22:52:00 - [99] - Quote you know what would be great? instead of adding damage mods to the suits themselves, why not make the guns have customization slots? this way the modules on suits are not used up, and a weapon could have more slots as it goes up the ranks( militia would have 0, standard would have 1, adv 2 proto 3) and maybe it's own pg/cpu type constraints (maybe calibration points, like rigs in eve!) then more customization item's could be added in, like rof mods, damage mods, heatsinks, clip expanders, and many more options


Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.