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[Suggestion] On Tweaking Rifles

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Starfire Revo DUST University Ivy League 254	Posted - 2014.05.17 17:31:00 - [61] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Yeah, like I said earlier, maybe a change to 15/15 damage profile instead of 20/20 would be nice, more for the ScR, but the LR can still put the fear of God into armor tanked suits. Your point here made me realize something as well. The higher the -x%/+x% go, the worse the weapon will perform on average because a negative % will reduce damage the higher the number goes. I tried doing the math for this, but the higher the positive and negative multipliers go, the more shots it will take to kill someone who has equal shield:armour. I make videos of EVE and Dust http://www.youtube.com/mrgimbleb I write about EVE and Dust http://mrgimbleb.blogspot.com
TRULY ELITE WarRavens Final Resolution. 7	Posted - 2014.05.17 19:15:00 - [62] - Quote It seems there maybe a lot of weapon changes so is it possible a weapon respec will accompany these changes? I think one is long overdue.
TRULY ELITE WarRavens Final Resolution. 7	Posted - 2014.05.17 19:16:00 - [63] - Quote Any thoughts?
Raedon Vo-Graza Armored Dragon Corp 18	Posted - 2014.05.17 19:16:00 - [64] - Quote TRULY ELITE wrote: It seems there maybe a lot of weapon changes so is it possible a weapon respec will accompany these changes? I think one is long overdue. yes please considering that suits and weapons are affected by each other this should have been done with the suit respec
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3328	Posted - 2014.05.17 19:59:00 - [65] - Quote Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: TRULY ELITE wrote: It seems there maybe a lot of weapon changes so is it possible a weapon respec will accompany these changes? I think one is long overdue. yes please considering that suits and weapons are affected by each other this should have been done with the suit respec Sure, whatever, who cares. Normally I'm anti-respec but considering it's all a moot point anyway, why the f*ck not. (objectively though, these are not massive changes so chill out) Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit! See you in Destiny psn: bobswerski
TRULY ELITE WarRavens Final Resolution. 7	Posted - 2014.05.17 20:13:00 - [66] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Raedon Vo-Graza wrote: TRULY ELITE wrote: It seems there maybe a lot of weapon changes so is it possible a weapon respec will accompany these changes? I think one is long overdue. yes please considering that suits and weapons are affected by each other this should have been done with the suit respec Sure, whatever, who cares. Normally I'm anti-respec but considering it's all a moot point anyway, why the f*ck not. (objectively though, these are not massive changes so chill out) Even so, with the RR and CR and the new sidearms we should have got one at the launch of 1.8 and it allows people to spec into their own racial weapons to match they're dropsuits which on some suits, is the only way to access the secondary skill on commandos and assaults.
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 187	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:48:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line *liability Also, the current meta is why the Scrambler is bottom of the barrel as steady said. I got my baby to Prof. V, so, if shields could gain some ground, it would do wonders to change that order. Could we get actual numbers Rattati? How out used/sold is the Scrambler. A list of 1-4 is great, but hard numbers are better. Also, Officer Scramblers please (with an Assault Variant too). Yep, EHP stacking with Plates is creating an imbalance in the whole ecosystem Increase stacking penalties (for all) and remove/reduce passive armour repair for Gallente. Fixed. Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 187	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:05:00 - [68] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: * Combat Rifle - Slightly increase burst interval * Assault Combat Rifle - Slightly decrease Rate of Fire * Plasma (Assault) Rifle - Slightly increase Rate of Fire Rifles are pretty close to being balanced; as close as we've seen to date. The adjustments above will move the top-performers and bottom-performers closer toward the middle. Standard Combat Rifle - increase burst delay Assault Combat Rifle - leave rate of fire - remove/reduce stun-lock effect (from game) - change damage profile to +5%/-5% (All) Rail Rifles - reduce all ranges by 10m (effective, optimal, etc) Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 142	Posted - 2014.05.18 03:21:00 - [69] - Quote Assault rifle ideas: 1- Increase damage and/or rof. But AR needs an increase in damage before RoF. With an AR you can almost get a kill with one clip. Increase the RoF and you will almost get a kill just a bit faster and now be in mid reload when ganked or have run away sooner. 2-AR has shortest range but should have an optimal range for the greater part. So 62m optimal/ 78m effective (~80% range is optimal) instead of 45/78 (~57%). 3-Remove penalty vs armor so damage profile becomes simply +10% vs shields. And now a math lesson.... Some have suggested that damage profile bonuses/penalties cancel out to a net gain/loss. For instance the AR and CR have inverse profiles but both net a +5% gain (+10/-5 and -5/+10 respectively). This is not accurate. Example: Let us consider a super Gal Sent with say 500 shield and 1500 armor. What is its EHP vs an AR and a CR? Against an assault rifle that suit's shields are 10% less effective and its armor is 5% more effective. So we do the math: 500/1500 becomes 450/1575 for a net total 2025 EHP Against a combat rifle that suit's shields are 5% more effective and its armor is 10% less effective. Doing the math: 500/1500 becomes 525/1350 for a net total 1875 EHP Super gal has 2025 EHP vs Assault Rifle and 1875 vs Combat Rifle. Even though the perceived net damage profile gain is +5% for both weapons, the practical effect is much different. Super gal gains 25 ehp against AR but loses 125 ehp against CR. That's a 150 ehp spread between weapons. Now to take it further: -At 594 DPS for a combat rifle, it would take 3.16 seconds to kill that sentinel and it could be done from 67m away. -At 412.5 DPS for an Assault rifle, it would take 4.9 seconds to kill that sentinel and it could only be done from 45m away. -Nearly 2 seconds (1.74= like forever) longer for the AR and at just over half the distance of the CR. That is doubly gimped. -It takes the CR less than a second to eat through its shields despite its penalty against shields where it takes the AR more than a second even with its bonus against shields. This exercise demonstrates two things: >Damage profile net gain/loss does not show the whole picture when applied. >Even though this hypothetical superGallifragilistic sentinel is an extreme example, CPM Rattati stated that armor tanking is the norm. So until its damage is increase, the assault rifle will always be less effective when compared to the others while this is true. AKA - StarVenger
Spankdamonke Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2014.05.18 05:17:00 - [70] - Quote I would suggest the following actions to help balance things out a bit: GÇó Modify the existing damage profiles (Someone had posted these exact numbers earlier) A) +5 / -5% for Hybrid-Blasters B) -5 / +5% for Hybrid-Railguns C) -10 / +10 for Projectile weapons (adds a marginal bit of balance to CR and HMG) D) +15 / -15% for Laser weapons (makes Laser weaponry more appealing in a game where most players are armor tanked without creating a scenario where all players would opt to take a LR instead if it was reduced to +10 / -10%) GÇó Where individual weapon tweaks are concerned.... 1) Rail rifles- Decrease optimal range slightly (8-10m) 2) Combat rifles- I definitely agree that an increase in burst delay would be effective. As well as others have said, removing the 'Snare Effect' caused by the higher ROF weapons. 3) Plasma Rifles- Increase ROF to 800rpm. (A marginal increase, but this is offset by the changes in damage profiles outlined earlier. And given it's short Optimum range, this would help give it a slight edge in CQC as it would do more DPS than both a RR or ACR by tier) 4) Scrambler Rifles- I would suggest a diminishing damage mechanic instead of a simple Seize / Feedback approach. Wherein, after the rifle reaches it's "overheat point", each subsequent shot will simply do progressively less and less damage until the weapon is allowed to cool. In this way, players do not have to worry about about being punished so severely by an overheat. They can continue to spam out shots, albeit with less damage and thus killing potential. This makes it more appealing to frontline troops, without becoming like the old Tac AR as the new overheat mechanic discourages excessive spam. Coupled with the change in damage profiles, this would again make the ScR a viable choice.

Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1432	Posted - 2014.05.18 06:11:00 - [71] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This will be interesting. First I would like to get relative parity or usage between the racial variants, within each class (std, adv, pro) and leave the gallente variants and other race full auto variants out of the picture (for a time being) That said, currently these rifles are in relative balance, sorted from most consumed to least. Rail Rifles Combat Rifles Plasma (GA) Rifles Scrambler Rifles Data says that Scramblers are either considerably worse or inhabit a radically different role on the battlefield. Plasma rifles also need love, but not much by the numbers. If UP against the others, please post suggestions. My personal experience is that the Assault CR is considerably better than the Duvolle at most ranges. Something I don't like having specced fully into all Plasma rifle proficiencies Discuss I created the following spread sheet in an attempt to build true balance for all the light rifles. Please look it over and comment. I think that using the method on the first tab could be a great way for CCP to work out the balance of these weapons. In this balancing method each of the weapon's stats is assigned a value based upon it being better or worse than the standard gallente AR. Then those stats are modified so that each weapon is unique but all the weighted values end up equalling zero. Please note: You will not be able to modify the spread sheet in any way but you will be able to comment on things by right clicking on a cell and selecting comment. These comments will be used to modify the stats based upon community input. Fun > Realism
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 20	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:27:00 - [72] - Quote The CR is the fast shooter. for AR (plasma) no need to increase the RoF but the dmg. This will make it more gal weapon. this is for all the plasma AR variants. All are short range and to be different from CR do not increase for any of them the RoF but the damage output for all. i was expecting with 1.8 to increase the dmg for breach AR. it has shorter range and lower RoF that RR so soudl compensate with higher dmg per shot and higher stability. Scrambler Rifle - i still use it and love it, but it really have hard time vs armour. maybe we shoud think on the idea to make the prof instead of 3% vs shield to 2% vs both shield and armour??? it has higher DPS but is single shot and fast overhit. i think it is not underpowered but most people are fed up from the overhit during a close fight. to use it we need to learn to control the fire. or decrease of the heat build ??
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2793	Posted - 2014.05.18 11:42:00 - [73] - Quote Yes please to fixing rifles, swarms and plasma cannons (all light weps except for MD). Yes please to full respec when weapon balance is being worked on. This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1434	Posted - 2014.05.18 19:27:00 - [74] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Yes please to fixing rifles, swarms and plasma cannons (all light weps except for MD). Yes please to full respec when weapon balance is being worked on. Knock it off with the respec bs already. Giving respecs has never done anything but helped vets move from one FOTM to another instantly. Also, those requests have absolutely nothing to do with this thread which is achieving balance among the light weapons in DUST514. Fun > Realism
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 99	Posted - 2014.05.18 21:08:00 - [75] - Quote Seriously the whole respec crowd pisses me off. They use any excuse to try to get one. Respecs do nothing but cause trouble with FOTM tryhards plaguing the the game. Half the reason people are getting pissed off with scouts and cloaks is that all the Gal logi tryhards from 1.7 are now running around in tanked scout suits. If my min scout (used since uprising release) or my shotgun (used since the very beginning of open beta) gets nerfed because of it I will not be happy.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1527	Posted - 2014.05.19 00:11:00 - [76] - Quote With the burst CR, I feel that a greatly extended interval between bursts plus a bump to the damage of individual bursts would add to it's "hit and run" feel, but that's just me spitballing. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 MAG Vet ~ Raven R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1042	Posted - 2014.05.19 02:20:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This will be interesting. First I would like to get relative parity or usage between the racial variants, within each class (std, adv, pro) and leave the gallente variants and other race full auto variants out of the picture (for a time being) That said, currently these rifles are in relative balance, sorted from most consumed to least. Rail Rifles Combat Rifles Plasma (GA) Rifles Scrambler Rifles Data says that Scramblers are either considerably worse or inhabit a radically different role on the battlefield. Plasma rifles also need love, but not much by the numbers. If UP against the others, please post suggestions. My personal experience is that the Assault CR is considerably better than the Duvolle at most ranges. Something I don't like having specced fully into all Plasma rifle proficiencies Discuss ScR is UP or less favored, but people complain about the over heat. but in my mind only a skilled amarrian should be able to use it properlly. thats why i love my Alt Account Ark Angel Clone-A since he is an amazing ScR user with lvl 5 amarr assualt and ScR. its more of the, either use it with the proper suit or dont use it at all In Rust We Trust Vherokior Warrior My Honor is for the Republic
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 296	Posted - 2014.05.19 03:21:00 - [78] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: SCR is just a close range sniper rifle you cant use like it an AR because the overheat gets you killed. Thus you cant frontline the SCR. The assult makes up for this but as everyone is amour tanking your better off using the CC or RR. Hope that makes sense, i would rather the SCR went full auto but lost its power until you reloaded. So you unload it but if u do it to much your using a pea shooter. With its current overheat method its a lighbitly on the front line i mentioned this on another thread. the problem is that theres not enough incentive to shield tank. everyone armor tanks and if you noticed, 3 out of the 4 rifle deal great damage... to shield tanks. only two rifles do great damage to armor tanks and one of those rifles does great damage to both shield and armor tanks, has the fastest reloads, the most ammo per clip, the highest ammo reserves, good range, and no recoil. instead of saying the CR is OP (which is definitely is) ask why no one is shield tanking
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 785	Posted - 2014.05.19 06:02:00 - [79] - Quote I can tell you why the Gal AR isn't on the bottom of your list. Because you're counting starter fits...which all have an AR.
Ground Zero420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1	Posted - 2014.05.19 10:29:00 - [80] - Quote What if user A uses a weeks worth of user B's weapons in only 1 day? Activity seems like it should be in the equation somewhere. Spartan mk420

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 302	Posted - 2014.05.19 11:24:00 - [81] - Quote after some thought, what about decreasing the combat rifles magazine size? if we cut it by about half how would it be then? it has the fastest reload so it shouldnt also have the such a huge magazine size should it? if combat rifles only had 27 rounds per magazine, then they wouldnt be able to chew through shield tanks without having to reload. the ACR could be cut down to a 40 round magazine. this means hat missing a target is more costly as youll have wasted half you clip without doing anything. the increased reloads would basically be the same as overheating a SCR. you cant keep up continuous fire. then we wouldnt even need to touch the damage. we'd still need to fix the CR and ACR damage profiles only other thing i'd change to the CR is i'd add recoil and dispersion after the 3rd round of each burst. so while firing immediately after a burst would cause that burst to experience increased recoil and dispersion. anything over 3 bursts and you wouldnt be able to hit anything past 10 meters while hipfiring
Phoenix 85 Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 107	Posted - 2014.05.19 17:04:00 - [82] - Quote CR/ACR are fine on minmatar suits where they belong. Only OP when you start putting them on other tankier suits. If you lower ROF, the min suits should get a ROF bonus to compensate. EDUCATE YOURSELF ABOUT PC VS CONSOLE
Lilith Serenity Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 7	Posted - 2014.05.20 00:39:00 - [83] - Quote I feel that all rifles should have been full auto. If project legion is green lit you can make it where you can switch fire mode from full to semi auto with a single press of a button. Variants should be more of what additions are added to the gun instead. Example: Standard PR would be SPR. A scoped variant would be SPR-S. A Variant with a grenade launcher be SPR-G and et cetera for all other racial rifles. On another note, I feel sniper rifles are great atm except we should be able to zoom in and out with all having the same minimum and max zoom. So I don't have to go with tactical to see better are longer distances.
MINA Longstrike 770	Posted - 2014.05.20 01:44:00 - [84] - Quote PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GIVE ME A TACTICAL RAIL RIFLE. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Xx-VxF-xX Void of Faction 15	Posted - 2014.05.20 01:48:00 - [85] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GIVE ME A TACTICAL RAIL RIFLE. Had that before they had the rail rifle. It's the sniper rifle and it even comes in 3 versions ;)
Mordecai Sanguine What The French Red Whines. 683	Posted - 2014.05.20 05:52:00 - [86] - Quote ScR need some "Improvements" like a PG fitting reduction. 11 for STD is way too much.
Marc Rime 402	Posted - 2014.05.20 17:45:00 - [87] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: * Combat Rifle - Slightly increase burst interval Why not just add an over-heat mechanism to it, but one that cools down really fast so it only kicks in if you fire continuous bursts?
Y-BLOCK BioCyberDevelopment 10	Posted - 2014.05.20 17:57:00 - [88] - Quote Dang, u guyz jst finished rebalancing practically every weapon, when does it end? And now jst when we get used to this setup, now u wanna mess with it some more. There will always b butthurt players who complain that a weapon is too this or not enough that; I find that the last weapon balance was pretty well rounded with the exception of the AR & Scrmblr Pstl. For those of us who been playing since closed beta, the awesome weaponry & their effectiveness is part of what prompted us 2 keep playin & looking back it seems that has been going downhill. If ur gonna still do it, jst do it & b done with it..
MINA Longstrike 775	Posted - 2014.05.21 00:57:00 - [89] - Quote Xx-VxF-xX wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GIVE ME A TACTICAL RAIL RIFLE. Had that before they had the rail rifle. It's the sniper rifle and it even comes in 3 versions ;) All of them 1000% useless for anything shorter than 300m away. Tac Rail as I imagine would function like this Semi Auto Prefire charge (0.4sec = 150 RPM) High damage (156 / round at basic = 390 dps +5%/10% at adv & pro) Low magazine size (12-15?) Very similar range profile to standard rail Slightly tweaked optic. I'm not exactly sure what the numbers in regards to dps are for other rifles, but I think this would make it fairly balanced and an unexpectedly 'bursty' rifle. The numbers on this thing though would make it truly terrifying to see in the hands of a caldari commando with damage mods. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Xx-VxF-xX Void of Faction 18	Posted - 2014.05.21 01:53:00 - [90] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Xx-VxF-xX wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GIVE ME A TACTICAL RAIL RIFLE. Had that before they had the rail rifle. It's the sniper rifle and it even comes in 3 versions ;) All of them 1000% useless for anything shorter than 300m away. Tac Rail as I imagine would function like this Semi Auto Prefire charge (0.4sec = 150 RPM) High damage (156 / round at basic = 390 dps +5%/10% at adv & pro) Low magazine size (12-15?) Very similar range profile to standard rail Slightly tweaked optic. I'm not exactly sure what the numbers in regards to dps are for other rifles, but I think this would make it fairly balanced and an unexpectedly 'bursty' rifle. The numbers on this thing though would make it truly terrifying to see in the hands of a caldari commando with damage mods. Sounds good as long as they make it kick like a mule like the tac ar.



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