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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4943
   |
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:23:00 -
[61] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:
Someone tanking as their main thing will obviously be much better than someone that sits in the redline with a PRO rail, and scoffs at the idea of actually brawling with tanks (because they're actually pretty bad with tanks).
inb4 facts
Most of my Railgun kills are in CQC.
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
AFK
No seriously. My lunch break's over now. :(
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The Attorney General
2190
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:25:00 -
[62] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:
Uh... I do not remember the huge outcry from infantry when AV was getting nerfed into the ground. I do not remember people defending AV grenades, and I sure don't remember anyone have a problem with the AV grenade nerf.
I do remember tankers crying non-stop about how tanks were sooo easy to kill, even though they could still kill LEGIONS of infantry then as well. Tanks were glass cannons then, they could kill a lot and die a lot. Now they just kill a lot and your community thinks everything is balanced. See OP.
Read this thread.
Here is a thread with AV nade defenders
Here is a thread where Atiim chimesi n at the end to say everything is fine.
A couple of swarms are fine in here too.
This one too has people calling for buffs to swarms!
Search tool is your friend. Unless you like looking stupid.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
309
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Posted - 2014.02.21 19:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:Before:
AV is invulnerable to Tanks (rendering glitch)
Now:
Tanks are invulnerable to infantry and most AV
Before:
Blah Blah ISK
Now:
200k tank >>>>>>>>>>>> 200k suits
Before:
1 AV'er killing 3 tanks is OP
Now:
1 tank killing squads not OP
Before:
Tanks need teamwork to survive!!
Now:
Tanks should be able to SOLO!! Make AV require teamwork.
Then:
400M range locks down entire field
Now:
lol railguns and killing infantry at 200 Ms with blasters....
Yeah, you guys never get to talk about underpowered again... ever. You have no credibility left. To tell you the truth, I much more preferred things pre-1.7 and I've been tanking since the start of Chromosome. I lost my infantry killing power in 1.7 and I lost my godmode in 1.7, it's true that pre-1.7 AV was ridiculously strong but with a little bit of teamwork nowhere near OP. It was a lot less useless than it is now. We cannot spider tank for the lols anymore. So let me fix your list: Before:
AV is invulnerable to Tanks (rendering glitch)
Now: Tanks are invulnerable to 90% of the game Before:
200K ISK suit vs 600K-2.5K ISK tank
Now: 70K-550K ISK tank vs 200K ISK suit (p.s. no one thinks that milita suits taking out proto suits is wrong) Before:
1 AV'er killing 3 tanks if 15+ mil sp invested into suit/weapon1 tank with support killing whole teams. Now: Only jihad jeeps are viable, all other AV is lol 1 tank killing squads not OP Before:
Tanks need teamwork to survive!!Now: Tanks can still get repped, can still have infatry support, don't need it because lol op Then: 400M range locks down entire field Railgun snipes as far as you could render Now: Lol 600 m Railguns 200 m blasters
Took a minute to pull all of your b-llsh-t out of that post. |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4943
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:Before:
AV is invulnerable to Tanks (rendering glitch)
Now:
Tanks are invulnerable to infantry and most AV overnerfed SL and fixed bugs
Before:
Blah Blah ISK 200k HAV > 1x 200k suit when we could see them
Now:
200k tank >>>>>>>>>>>> 200k suits assuming you're a scrub and don't have/know how to use effective AV tactics. Or you expect your Duvolle to kill my HAV
Before:
1 AV'er killing 3 tanks is OP *1 AVer killing 1 HAV inside 10s from outside render distance is OP
Now:
1 tank killing squads not OP
because they've never done this before? Did you ever even play against a decent tanker?
Before:
AV should be able to SOLO! Make tanks require teamwork.
Now:
Tanks should be able to SOLO!! Make AV require teamwork.
Then:
400M range locks down entire field
Now:
lol railguns and killing infantry at 200 Ms with blasters....
400m =/= 200m. This is called basic mathematics.
Yeah, you guys never get to talk about underpowered again... ever. You have no credibility left.
two months =/= eight months. Although apparently Crimson Cerberes = Spkr4theDead.
I'm terribly sorry, but your credibility is approximately as poor as ours, if not worse.
lol@ invisible 400m fire-and-forget 2k DPS weapon 'requires skill'.
Yeah, nope. Do you know how often people would dance in the middle of the street trying to kill me? With both forges and swarms? Had a rather low success rate, which makes sense considering my experience surviving BS AV, but the very fact that it happened? Clearly it was somewhat successful. Do you honestly think it makes sense for me to be running an anti-infantry turret and that you are (hypptheticaly) capable of soloing me from the middle of the road in front of me? You might enjoy bitching and moaning (let's face it, you clearly do) but I can find you no more than two tankers that are satisfied with this current situation. I bet you can guess who they are Please, find me some AVers who stuck up for pilots at ANY point in the last eight months. Then come talk to me about fu cking 'hypocrisy'. I'm done. Enjoy your circle jerk. Actually, That AVer would be me, considering how I myself have asked for a vehicle buff before 1.7.
Benjamin Cisko even made a thread asking me about that.
Excuse me while I proceed to talk to you about flucking 'hypocrisy'
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
AFK
No seriously. My lunch break's over now. :(
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
310
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:41:00 -
[65] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:
Uh... I do not remember the huge outcry from infantry when AV was getting nerfed into the ground. I do not remember people defending AV grenades, and I sure don't remember anyone have a problem with the AV grenade nerf.
I do remember tankers crying non-stop about how tanks were sooo easy to kill, even though they could still kill LEGIONS of infantry then as well. Tanks were glass cannons then, they could kill a lot and die a lot. Now they just kill a lot and your community thinks everything is balanced. See OP.
Read this thread.
uhh... ok??
a post back in febuary, that last a whole 24 post... doesn't sound like a huge topic there. Also, there are alot of reasoned counter-points, like the fact that you have to be within 30 meters to use them, or that 3 lia dias CANNOT kill a tank even then.
first one is directed at attim, so he can deal with that
Second and third one HAVE THE SAME GUY claiming swarms are either fine or need a buff. King CHECKMATE. This is not a reasoned arguement, you are just picking one dude and repeatedly showing his post as proof. Just look through the forums at the time.
It was concensus that vehicles needed a buff, from all corners of the community. It was concensus that swarm range was too far.
Also, swarms did need an alteration then, but not the way you are thinking. Swarms get +25% dmg per tier, thats ridiculous. So back then, militia/standard swarms were balanced (other than range) but adv and proto were way too good. The problem with swarms was/is the damage scaling. |
MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
170
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:41:00 -
[66] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:Before:
AV is invulnerable to Tanks (rendering glitch)
Now:
Tanks are invulnerable to infantry and most AV
Before:
Blah Blah ISK
Now:
200k tank >>>>>>>>>>>> 200k suits
Before:
1 AV'er killing 3 tanks is OP
Now:
1 tank killing squads not OP
Before:
Tanks need teamwork to survive!!
Now:
Tanks should be able to SOLO!! Make AV require teamwork.
Then:
400M range locks down entire field
Now:
lol railguns and killing infantry at 200 Ms with blasters....
Yeah, you guys never get to talk about underpowered again... ever. You have no credibility left. To tell you the truth, I much more preferred things pre-1.7 and I've been tanking since the start of Chromosome. I lost my infantry killing power in 1.7 and I lost my godmode in 1.7, it's true that pre-1.7 AV was ridiculously strong but with a little bit of teamwork nowhere near OP. It was a lot less useless than it is now. We cannot spider tank for the lols anymore. So let me fix your list: Before:
AV is invulnerable to Tanks (rendering glitch)
Now: Tanks are invulnerable to 90% of the game Before:
200K ISK suit vs 600K-2.5K ISK tank
Now: 70K-550K ISK tank vs 200K ISK suit (p.s. no one thinks that milita suits taking out proto suits is wrong) Before:
1 AV'er killing 3 tanks if 15+ mil sp invested into suit/weapon1 tank with support killing whole teams. Now: Only jihad jeeps are viable, all other AV is lol 1 tank killing squads not OP Before:
Tanks need teamwork to survive!!Now: Tanks can still get repped, can still have infatry support, don't need it because lol op Then: 400M range locks down entire field Railgun snipes as far as you could render Now: Lol 600 m Railguns 200 m blasters Took a minute to pull all of your b-llsh-t out of that post.
Clearly you don't even AV and you have to change your own words when they look bad (are actually true).
EDIT: I don't understand what you are crying about when I tell you that I too as a tanker want the days of pre-1.7 back for both AV and Vehicles and still you have to be a *****.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
310
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:46:00 -
[67] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:Before:
AV is invulnerable to Tanks (rendering glitch)
Now:
Tanks are invulnerable to infantry and most AV
Before:
Blah Blah ISK
Now:
200k tank >>>>>>>>>>>> 200k suits
Before:
1 AV'er killing 3 tanks is OP
Now:
1 tank killing squads not OP
Before:
Tanks need teamwork to survive!!
Now:
Tanks should be able to SOLO!! Make AV require teamwork.
Then:
400M range locks down entire field
Now:
lol railguns and killing infantry at 200 Ms with blasters....
Yeah, you guys never get to talk about underpowered again... ever. You have no credibility left. To tell you the truth, I much more preferred things pre-1.7 and I've been tanking since the start of Chromosome. I lost my infantry killing power in 1.7 and I lost my godmode in 1.7, it's true that pre-1.7 AV was ridiculously strong but with a little bit of teamwork nowhere near OP. It was a lot less useless than it is now. We cannot spider tank for the lols anymore. So let me fix your list: Before:
AV is invulnerable to Tanks (rendering glitch)
Now: Tanks are invulnerable to 90% of the game Before:
200K ISK suit vs 600K-2.5K ISK tank
Now: 70K-550K ISK tank vs 200K ISK suit (p.s. no one thinks that milita suits taking out proto suits is wrong) Before:
1 AV'er killing 3 tanks if 15+ mil sp invested into suit/weapon1 tank with support killing whole teams. Now: Only jihad jeeps are viable, all other AV is lol 1 tank killing squads not OP Before:
Tanks need teamwork to survive!!Now: Tanks can still get repped, can still have infatry support, don't need it because lol op Then: 400M range locks down entire field Railgun snipes as far as you could render Now: Lol 600 m Railguns 200 m blasters Took a minute to pull all of your b-llsh-t out of that post. Clearly you don't even AV and you have to change your own words when they look bad (are actually true).
I just didn't want to take the time to re-reference my orignal post. In then end what you wrote was complete and utter drivel, easily debunked and refuted.
Let me break it down for you:
Tankers used to cry that they required teamwork before, now they don't and they tell AV that they NEED it.
Tankers used to cry about AV being invulnerable because of a rendering glitch, but tankers are invulnerable to 90% of the game.
Tankers used to cry about isk/sp investments, but now not so much. Also they completely ignore the fact that EVERYONE thinks starter fits killing a proto logi is balanced.
Tankers used to cry about 1 av'er killing tanks easily, but they kill infantry in much greater numbers and with much greater ease.
The hypocrisy is evident and everywhere. The fact that you don't see it says a lot about you. |
YourDeadAgain76
Red Star.
EoN.
180
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:48:00 -
[68] - Quote
These are our STD tanks, i cant wait to see you guys freekout when/if we get our ADV and Proto HAV's. LOL
If you are posting about Tanks being OP and you cant solo us with militia,STD FG/SL.
Then you are an idiot AV'r. To those of you that have ADV or Proto AV with Proficiency 4 or 5 with Complex Damage mods i dont here you guys saying HAV'S are OP.
You know why....cause they aint,....its because HAV's are not that hard to solo. Hell if you got 2 Av'rs with ADV or Proto with Damage mods n some av nades, we pop with a little effort if you try.
Another tad bit of info for ya Av scrubs. Use teamwork, Get proto, or get lost.
|
The Attorney General
2191
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:52:00 -
[69] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:
first one is directed at attim, so he can deal with that
Second and third one HAVE THE SAME GUY claiming swarms are either fine or need a buff. King CHECKMATE. This is not a reasoned arguement, you are just picking one dude and repeatedly showing his post as proof. Just look through the forums at the time.
It was concensus that vehicles needed a buff, from all corners of the community. It was concensus that swarm range was too far.
Also, swarms did need an alteration then, but not the way you are thinking. Swarms get +25% dmg per tier, thats ridiculous. So back then, militia/standard swarms were balanced (other than range) but adv and proto were way too good. The problem with swarms was/is the damage scaling.
I just grabbed from the first two pages of search results. I didn't think you would try to fight it, but I underestimated your inability to see the truth. I'll start working on a much better post that will shut you down if you like.
If you end up squading with me when I show you how to kill tanks, I am going to make so much fun of you. I am starting to doubt if you would even be able to understand how to fight tanks, if this is the type of debate you are capable of.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
|
Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
745
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:53:00 -
[70] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:Before:
AV is invulnerable to Tanks (rendering glitch)
Now:
Tanks are invulnerable to infantry and most AV
So I guess wanting a gaming error fixed makes us all hypocrites. Funny. Swarms indeed need some work, I put a video of it in a thread saying they need help, but forges are fine, and proxies get kills still. AV nades need a possible buff, but I haven't seen them used against my tank to give an opinion. Part of this is tanks are too fast, and they need to be slowed down.
Crimson Cerberes wrote:Before:
Blah Blah ISK
Now:
200k tank >>>>>>>>>>>> 200k suits
Remember when AV said that tanks being more expensive when their counter was way cheaper wasn't an excuse? In any case, the ISK argument was that million ISK tanks were dying in seconds to 100k fits, and we wanted to either have more powerful tanks in line with the high cost, or reduce their price. CCP did both, which unbalanced them. My personal opinion, I want them to stay powerful, and thus want their prices brought back to around 1.6 levels, perhaps 75-80% of what their prices used to be. The base hull should be at least 200k, if not more.
Crimson Cerberes wrote:
Before:
1 AV'er killing 3 tanks is OP
Now:
1 tank killing squads not OP
Remember the ISK justification above? That was why we were mad. You could easily kill 2.5 million a match with a 100k ISK suit. That was utterly broken. Now, you have a 70k tank slaughtering 200k suits. This is half right. A tank should win, but a tank should cost for that win. What makes them so broken is how cheap their power is. Tank spam would never be a thing if they cost as much as ADS do now, because scrubs would go broke. As it is, it's more economical to run tanks than proto suits. This needs addressing.
Crimson Cerberes wrote:Before:
Tanks need teamwork to survive!!
Now:
Tanks should be able to SOLO!! Make AV require teamwork.
A tank should absolutely take teamwork to kill. But, it should take teamwork to kill with. Large turrets should be for killing other vehicles. A tank's infantry killing capabilities should come from fitting small turrets. Large blasters are indeed broken, and part of the reason I specced into proto railguns, to hunt down scrubs using militia tanks as crutches.
Yeah, we do get to talk about being underpowered, if we ever become underpowered again. Some of us actually want a a balanced game, because there is no fun without any risk. And if tanks become underpowered, then I will call for them to be buffed, because it will be needed. As it stands now, Tanks don't need a direct nerf, but they need to change how they are implemented. I and others have put forth ideas like:
1. Limit one hardener per vehicle. Permahardened Gunnlogis are gamebreaking.
2. Slow tank top speed. This will make it easier for AV to deal damage enough to kill them, thus increasing their DPS.
3. make all hardeners have the same uptime and cooldown, and increase the resistance bonus as you go up the tiers. This, along with number 1, will emphasie the wave of opportunity concept. A tank should be nigh indestructible when hardeners are up. It should be easy to chase off, or kill if he's a crappy tanker, once that hardener turns off. I think 30 seconds uptime and 2-2.5 minutes cooldown would be close to the sweet spot.
So maybe you should think before grouping all of us under one heading, yeah?
Best PVE idea I've seen.
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BAD FURRY
SVER True Blood
General Tso's Alliance
577
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:54:00 -
[71] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:Before:
AV is invulnerable to Tanks (rendering glitch)
Now:
Tanks are invulnerable to infantry and most AV
Before:
Blah Blah ISK
Now:
200k tank >>>>>>>>>>>> 200k suits
Before:
1 AV'er killing 3 tanks is OP
Now:
1 tank killing squads not OP
Before:
Tanks need teamwork to survive!!
Now:
Tanks should be able to SOLO!! Make AV require teamwork.
Then:
400M range locks down entire field
Now:
lol railguns and killing infantry at 200 Ms with blasters....
Yeah, you guys never get to talk about underpowered again... ever. You have no credibility left.
im looking at your op and see a lot of BS
as far as i can tell
before shield tanks OP as hell
Before Shield tanks OP but you can have a Pro SL take the whole team of tanks down from atop of a roof
before LAND draks and you need the whole team to work as one to win the game and kill the tanks
before shields still OP but now Av can kill them in 2- 3hits of FG
before tanks cost to much AV now OP vsing tanks no need to uses tanks at all.
before tanks under powered vsing AV no need for tanks at all
......give some more builds where tanks are useless in PC and everything do to AV
Now All tanks are on fair ground with AV and AV has to work in a group of 3 to kill them or some one needs to skill in to AV and know what the hek they are doing trying to sole a tank !
tanks now have a roll in PC,s
FAIR !!! Unless your a Puppy from pub machs whos do,s not run PC and thinks of him self as a one man do everything like COD or just joined dust 514 in the last 8 months and thinks things are broken !
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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Supernus Gigas
Star Giants
304
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:54:00 -
[72] - Quote
To really get a good grasp of the situation you really need to put some time into playing both roles. Both roles being Tanks and AV. I'm a Tanker(Proto Missile Gunnolgi, complex mods) and I'm also an AV Heavy(Proto Forge Guns, Prof Lv4). I'll explain my positions on the Tank V. Infantry(rather than focus on Tank V. Tank)
Here are my views and such:
Now I have used Blasters, Rails and Missiles. However I only run Missiles now(unless there's some jack-wagon Redline Rail Gun). The way I see it, Blasters absolutely wreck infantry and are the biggest problem that infantry face. I think a simple increase in dispersion, lower fire rate, and higher damage per shot would decrease it's effectiveness against infantry(especially at range) while keeping it's current effectiveness against Vehicles. Currently, Rail Guns are not very effective against infantry, and unless you have [brag]sweet Missile skillz like me and can hit infantry reliably[/brag] Missiles aren't very effective either(especially with their broken feeling splash mechanics.)
While I do use Tanks, I am truly a Heavy at heart. Maybe it's because I've been a Heavy since I started playing Dust over a year ago and I've gotten particularly good, but I can easily solo Tanks with an Assault Forge Gun and an AV nade or two(maybe even finish 'em off with a flaylock just to get them real salty). The trick is to get behind them and aim at their weak spot. A shocking and revolutionary tactic, I know. But I am serious, the amount of Forge Gunners I've seen who just shoot at the side of Tank from 200m away that can easily just hide behind a near by building or hill is staggering.
Swarms. Sorry, I've never used Swarms seriously. I'd love to offer some balancing or buff suggestions, but I've never used them so I don't feel like I'm in a position to really talk about them.
Here's some tips for you fellow Forge Gunners out there:
Don't use the Sentinel. Only use Basic Frames. Damage mods effect Forge Guns more than any other infantry weapon due to the Forge Guns high base damage, so being able to stick two of them on a suit is vital.
Be mobile. Use an LAV, but don't drive right up to the Tank because it'll probably hear you. And if you are really close to a Tank, drive slower and thus quieter. I swear, people only ever go full throttle or nothing. Get out a distance away and walk closer if you need too. I also recommend putting a Cardiac Regulator and a KinCat in your low slots so you can move a bit faster for longer. Also be prepared to lose your LAV, either to an enemy blowing it up, the LAV blowing itself up if you're away from it for too long, or some ******* blueberry taking off while you're resupplying.
The Assault Forge Gun is King. Unless you want to risk losing any of your Gastun's, use the AFG. ADV tier is fine, but if you can afford it, go with the Ishukone. If you're not good with the AFG, learn to get good. Make an cheap fit, get in an Ambush match and try to hit infantry and get used to the charge-up time. If you can hit a sprinting scout at 100m you can hit a Tank's fuel cells.
FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!
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Leonid Tybalt
Dark Knightz Corp.
253
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 19:58:00 -
[73] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:calisk galern wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:calisk galern wrote:really? you're actually going to try to deny his points with anecdotal evidence of how you are the magical jesus of blowing up tanks?
all right then....
may I suggest video evidence of your elite tank fighting skills, I personally would enjoy watching the batman of tank fighting deal with tanks like they were your whipping boys.
I would like to add a rail gun tank is nothing like a forge gunner, the forge gunner is vulnerable, slow, has near to no anti-infantry capabilities, and if he's a good forge gunner probably costs more then the tank. Erm, what "evidence" do you complainers present to the contrary if not anecdotal?  hmmm....how about every single video on your tube involving the numerous 6 tank steam rolls? how about the hundreds of players that feel like quitting after being rolled game after game after game because they don't have 20+ million sp characters with anti tank fits. math, has been presented, videos presented, numerous steam rolls, ambush is practically unplayable because of them, what more do you want -.-. I can find the threads, and the videos, but seriously why do I need to, it's been discussed, av is likely getting buffed, i'm just shocked someone wants to still use the "I can pop a tank with my 35 million sp character, so tanks must be balanced" defence. Still just anecdotal evidence. Here's some more anecdotal evidence: I got popped by a forge gunner yesterday. If you feel like calling me a "bad tanker" because of it, then i suggest you put your money where your mouth is. What I thought was funny here is how you whiners seem to consider your "evidence" to be "scientific" (or something) when you are all just as biased and base your views on nothing but anecdotes like everyone else. What's obvious to the rest of us is just that you suck at this game. And I don't really care if you feel like quitting. :) yep not worth my time talking with someone of your type
Nope, spend your time coming up with an actual case instead. Then we can talk. |
Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
313
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:02:00 -
[74] - Quote
YourDeadAgain76 wrote:These are our STD tanks, i cant wait to see you guys freekout when/if we get our ADV and Proto HAV's. LOL
If you are posting about Tanks being OP and you cant solo us with militia,STD FG/SL.
Then you are an idiot AV'r. To those of you that have ADV or Proto AV with Proficiency 4 or 5 with Complex Damage mods i dont here you guys saying HAV'S are OP.
You know why....cause they aint,....its because HAV's are not that hard to solo. Hell if you got 2 Av'rs with ADV or Proto with Damage mods n some av nades, we pop with a little effort if you try.
Another tad bit of info for ya Av scrubs. Use teamwork, Get proto, or get lost.
Proof or STFU.
Here is a bit of math for you:
IAFG does 2047 dmg per shot with proficiency 5 and 2 complex damage mods. There is no infantry based AV that does more sustained damage than the IAFG, it is the premier AV, to top tier, the counterpoint to a fully skilled gunnlogi or maddrugar. This fitting requires a total of 3.5 mil sp just for the suit and the weapon/wdmg mods. All specific to 1 role, before any other things are considered.
The IAFG does about 545 damage per second (sustained DPS including reloads).
If you were a lazy tanker and threw on 3x enhanced armor reps, with maxed armor rep skill ( a total of 1.2 mil sp) You would tank 450 hp/sec, forever, without any input from you. This means that the IAFG would require around 52 straight seconds of firing at you, without you moving, or firing back, or anything, and a supply of nanohives which it can't carry, in order to blow you up.
Oh yeah that seems balanced.
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
170
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:05:00 -
[75] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:
I just didn't want to take the time to re-reference my orignal post. In then end what you wrote was complete and utter drivel, easily debunked and refuted.
Let me break it down for you:
Tankers used to cry that they required teamwork before, now they don't and they tell AV that they NEED it.
Only scrub tankers still think that AV should require teamwork. Even tho tanks still need a ton of teamwork now if they want to stay alive throughout the match. It's just not the same kind of teamwork that used to save tanks pre-1.7 because that was taken away from us. Oneshotting anything is still bullshit, be it infantry oneshotting vehicles or vehicles oneshotting infantry. With the exception of snipers.
Tankers used to cry about AV being invulnerable because of a rendering glitch, but tankers are invulnerable to 90% of the game.
90% of the maps' actual infantry fighting areas are immune to tanks. Vehicle users still lose their stuff due to RDVs, ground instagibs ground vehicles, vehicles fall through the ground. Vehicles get stuck into the ground for no obivous reasons (so does infantry too). If you meant immune to 90% of infantry weapons there are 22 different infantry weapons all of which can get the killing blow on a tank and 9 of which are actually effective in one way or the other against tanks. So it seems to be more like 60%.
Tankers used to cry about isk/sp investments, but now not so much. Also they completely ignore the fact that EVERYONE thinks starter fits killing a proto logi is balanced.
If starter fit kills your proto logi you deserve to die. If militia tank kills your STD tank you also deserve to die, even tho it has pretty much the same killing power as a 20 million SP invested STD tank. I guess we don't cry anymore because 0 SP militia tanks are just as effective as 20 million SP STD tanks. All that is changed is how often you are effective.
Tankers used to cry about 1 av'er killing tanks easily, but they kill infantry in much greater numbers and with much greater ease.
They are tanks... ever heard of a tank that is unable to kill infantry? No? Me neither. Btw 1 AV kills tanks much faster and easier now than before. AV is hard counter to unsupported tanks and always will be and always should be. We just want our teamwork support possibilities back.
The hypocrisy is evident and everywhere. The fact that you don't see it says a lot about you.
I never said I don't see it. I just think those that are hypocrites are scrub tankers.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
|
Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
313
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:07:00 -
[76] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:
first one is directed at attim, so he can deal with that
Second and third one HAVE THE SAME GUY claiming swarms are either fine or need a buff. King CHECKMATE. This is not a reasoned arguement, you are just picking one dude and repeatedly showing his post as proof. Just look through the forums at the time.
It was concensus that vehicles needed a buff, from all corners of the community. It was concensus that swarm range was too far.
Also, swarms did need an alteration then, but not the way you are thinking. Swarms get +25% dmg per tier, thats ridiculous. So back then, militia/standard swarms were balanced (other than range) but adv and proto were way too good. The problem with swarms was/is the damage scaling.
I just grabbed from the first two pages of search results. I didn't think you would try to fight it, but I underestimated your inability to see the truth. I'll start working on a much better post that will shut you down if you like. If you end up squading with me when I show you how to kill tanks, I am going to make so much fun of you. I am starting to doubt if you would even be able to understand how to fight tanks, if this is the type of debate you are capable of.
You go ahead and do that, and in response I will just go to the linked forum post time periods and screen-cap the forum displays. We will see how prevalent it was.
Also, I will probably be on from 0800-1000 Gametime tongiht if you want to gang. I can not wait for you to start posting on an alt after I post a video of your ineptitude. |
MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
170
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:10:00 -
[77] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:The Attorney General wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:
first one is directed at attim, so he can deal with that
Second and third one HAVE THE SAME GUY claiming swarms are either fine or need a buff. King CHECKMATE. This is not a reasoned arguement, you are just picking one dude and repeatedly showing his post as proof. Just look through the forums at the time.
It was concensus that vehicles needed a buff, from all corners of the community. It was concensus that swarm range was too far.
Also, swarms did need an alteration then, but not the way you are thinking. Swarms get +25% dmg per tier, thats ridiculous. So back then, militia/standard swarms were balanced (other than range) but adv and proto were way too good. The problem with swarms was/is the damage scaling.
I just grabbed from the first two pages of search results. I didn't think you would try to fight it, but I underestimated your inability to see the truth. I'll start working on a much better post that will shut you down if you like. If you end up squading with me when I show you how to kill tanks, I am going to make so much fun of you. I am starting to doubt if you would even be able to understand how to fight tanks, if this is the type of debate you are capable of. You go ahead and do that, and in response I will just go to the linked forum post time periods and screen-cap the forum displays. We will see how prevalent it was. Also, I will probably be on from 0800-1000 Gametime tongiht if you want to gang. I can not wait for you to start posting on an alt after I post a video of your ineptitude.
Lol. Mind = Blown.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
|
Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
315
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:17:00 -
[78] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:The Attorney General wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:
first one is directed at attim, so he can deal with that
Second and third one HAVE THE SAME GUY claiming swarms are either fine or need a buff. King CHECKMATE. This is not a reasoned arguement, you are just picking one dude and repeatedly showing his post as proof. Just look through the forums at the time.
It was concensus that vehicles needed a buff, from all corners of the community. It was concensus that swarm range was too far.
Also, swarms did need an alteration then, but not the way you are thinking. Swarms get +25% dmg per tier, thats ridiculous. So back then, militia/standard swarms were balanced (other than range) but adv and proto were way too good. The problem with swarms was/is the damage scaling.
I just grabbed from the first two pages of search results. I didn't think you would try to fight it, but I underestimated your inability to see the truth. I'll start working on a much better post that will shut you down if you like. If you end up squading with me when I show you how to kill tanks, I am going to make so much fun of you. I am starting to doubt if you would even be able to understand how to fight tanks, if this is the type of debate you are capable of. You go ahead and do that, and in response I will just go to the linked forum post time periods and screen-cap the forum displays. We will see how prevalent it was. Also, I will probably be on from 0800-1000 Gametime tongiht if you want to gang. I can not wait for you to start posting on an alt after I post a video of your ineptitude. Lol. Mind = Blown.
So why is your mind blown?
He will meticulously troll through the forums to find isolated instances of people claiming AV nades were perfectly balanced before 1.7, or that AV was perfectly balanced. In response to this I will go to those time frames and screen cap the forums and we will see how prevalent those claims were. (hint: they were very rare.) |
YourDeadAgain76
Red Star.
EoN.
180
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:24:00 -
[79] - Quote
2 to 2.5 minute cooldown is crazy.
 We have 5% bonuses to active Mod regen and length of active mods if skilled into. So 25% longer hardners and 25% decrease in wait time for active mod use now.
I will admit the 30 to 45 seconds isa bit to short, i can see a minute and then with your 25% gets you down to 45 seconds again not counting the 25% to the lenght of hardner time if used skills for it.
For armor tanks what everyone i think is forgetting about is the Reppers. The complex armor reppers are crazy 145hp sec. put 2 on and you rep all damage done by SL/FG in like what 4 or 5 seconds, not even counting the repper bonus skill of 5%?.
I believe the shield booster and the repper need a bit of tweeking as well and then all should be balanced.
A large blaster tank is needed/helpfull for infantry support (not to destroy other tanks thats what rails/missles are for). As a mainly blaster tank pilot i stick with Blue n Green dots run Scanners- I see no need for the large blaster to not be able to kill reds dots. Otherwise you might as well only have shield tanks in the game.
There need to be more CPU/PG penelties for running rails on Maddys and blasters on gunnys and so on when other racial varients of tanks come out.....IF.
Reduce to range of Rail turrets will help get rid of redline Rail snipers.
I do believe the large missle needs to do more damage (hardly ever see any i have proto missle and rarely use). Or have more than 12 shot b4 reload the rail and blaster do way more damage in same amount of time.
Tanks should be slowed down a bit, but dont get crazy about it. As long as we will still have speed mods we can skill into to speed up for a time its fair. |
Nothing Certain
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
265
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:30:00 -
[80] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:Before:
AV is invulnerable to Tanks (rendering glitch)
Now:
Tanks are invulnerable to infantry and most AV overnerfed SL and fixed bugs
Before:
Blah Blah ISK 200k HAV > 1x 200k suit when we could see them
Now:
200k tank >>>>>>>>>>>> 200k suits assuming you're a scrub and don't have/know how to use effective AV tactics. Or you expect your Duvolle to kill my HAV
Before:
1 AV'er killing 3 tanks is OP *1 AVer killing 1 HAV inside 10s from outside render distance is OP
Now:
1 tank killing squads not OP
because they've never done this before? Did you ever even play against a decent tanker?
Before:
AV should be able to SOLO! Make tanks require teamwork.
Now:
Tanks should be able to SOLO!! Make AV require teamwork.
Then:
400M range locks down entire field
Now:
lol railguns and killing infantry at 200 Ms with blasters....
400m =/= 200m. This is called basic mathematics.
Yeah, you guys never get to talk about underpowered again... ever. You have no credibility left.
two months =/= eight months. Although apparently Crimson Cerberes = Spkr4theDead.
I'm terribly sorry, but your credibility is approximately as poor as ours, if not worse.
lol@ invisible 400m fire-and-forget 2k DPS weapon 'requires skill'.
Yeah, nope. Do you know how often people would dance in the middle of the street trying to kill me? With both forges and swarms? Had a rather low success rate, which makes sense considering my experience surviving BS AV, but the very fact that it happened? Clearly it was somewhat successful. Do you honestly think it makes sense for me to be running an anti-infantry turret and that you are (hypptheticaly) capable of soloing me from the middle of the road in front of me? You might enjoy bitching and moaning (let's face it, you clearly do) but I can find you no more than two tankers that are satisfied with this current situation. I bet you can guess who they are Please, find me some AVers who stuck up for pilots at ANY point in the last eight months. Then come talk to me about fu cking 'hypocrisy'. I'm done. Enjoy your circle jerk.
What happened prior to 1.7 was kind if before my time, i was too new to notice tank imbalance but it seems clear that there was an imbalance and human nature being what it is, i have little doubt the AV'ers are guilty of hypocrisy as well. The tankers and AV'ers are drawing from the same well of players and i am sure there was lots of advice to HTFU and get gud from the AVer's to the tankers. That doesn't make it a legitimate response in return, it only continues the cycle of stupidity.
Because, that's why.
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4948
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:35:00 -
[81] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:
Here's one of the many times I also call for a buff:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=125990&find=unread
More coverage later. I'd grab more links but I like being employed
Atiim (Gunnlogi - 80GJ Particle Cannon) Tank Scrub
AFK
No seriously. My lunch break's over now. :(
|
HYENAKILLER X
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
621
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:41:00 -
[82] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:Before:
AV is invulnerable to Tanks (rendering glitch)
Now:
Tanks are invulnerable to infantry and most AV
Before:
Blah Blah ISK
Now:
200k tank >>>>>>>>>>>> 200k suits
Before:
1 AV'er killing 3 tanks is OP
Now:
1 tank killing squads not OP
Before:
Tanks need teamwork to survive!!
Now:
Tanks should be able to SOLO!! Make AV require teamwork.
Then:
400M range locks down entire field
Now:
lol railguns and killing infantry at 200 Ms with blasters....
Yeah, you guys never get to talk about underpowered again... ever. You have no credibility left.
The words........they're......just so.......beautiful.
Tanks are for pussies.
|
Salt Dog 76
Red Star.
EoN.
71
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:44:00 -
[83] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:YourDeadAgain76 wrote:These are our STD tanks, i cant wait to see you guys freekout when/if we get our ADV and Proto HAV's. LOL
If you are posting about Tanks being OP and you cant solo us with militia,STD FG/SL.
Then you are an idiot AV'r. To those of you that have ADV or Proto AV with Proficiency 4 or 5 with Complex Damage mods i dont here you guys saying HAV'S are OP.
You know why....cause they aint,....its because HAV's are not that hard to solo. Hell if you got 2 Av'rs with ADV or Proto with Damage mods n some av nades, we pop with a little effort if you try.
Another tad bit of info for ya Av scrubs. Use teamwork, Get proto, or get lost.
Proof or STFU. Here is a bit of math for you: IAFG does 2047 dmg per shot with proficiency 5 and 2 complex damage mods. There is no infantry based AV that does more sustained damage than the IAFG, it is the premier AV, to top tier, the counterpoint to a fully skilled gunnlogi or maddrugar. This fitting requires a total of 3.5 mil sp just for the suit and the weapon/wdmg mods. All specific to 1 role, before any other things are considered. The IAFG does about 545 damage per second (sustained DPS including reloads). If you were a lazy tanker and threw on 3x enhanced armor reps, with maxed armor rep skill ( a total of 1.2 mil sp) You would tank 450 hp/sec, forever, without any input from you. This means that the IAFG would require around 52 straight seconds of firing at you, without you moving, or firing back, or anything, and a supply of nanohives which it can't carry, in order to blow you up. Oh yeah that seems balanced.
LOL you are so rediculous its making my side hurt. My suggestion for you is to GG. Skill into Proto FG with proficiency 5 reload speed and ammo and get your complex damage mods on a Basic proto hvy suit instead of throwing out numbers like a geek.
I have and do solo Maddys/Gunnys all the time now, then, PC, ambush, Dom,Skrim. You complaining about this issue and not giving up on it makes you come off as a noob scrub thats mad you only have 3 million sp and it will take me to long. WA WA WA
Quit your crying on the forums grab your proto FG and fight the tankers back to the redline ya P U S S. |
Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
316
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:45:00 -
[84] - Quote
Salt Dog 76 wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:YourDeadAgain76 wrote:These are our STD tanks, i cant wait to see you guys freekout when/if we get our ADV and Proto HAV's. LOL
If you are posting about Tanks being OP and you cant solo us with militia,STD FG/SL.
Then you are an idiot AV'r. To those of you that have ADV or Proto AV with Proficiency 4 or 5 with Complex Damage mods i dont here you guys saying HAV'S are OP.
You know why....cause they aint,....its because HAV's are not that hard to solo. Hell if you got 2 Av'rs with ADV or Proto with Damage mods n some av nades, we pop with a little effort if you try.
Another tad bit of info for ya Av scrubs. Use teamwork, Get proto, or get lost.
Proof or STFU. Here is a bit of math for you: IAFG does 2047 dmg per shot with proficiency 5 and 2 complex damage mods. There is no infantry based AV that does more sustained damage than the IAFG, it is the premier AV, to top tier, the counterpoint to a fully skilled gunnlogi or maddrugar. This fitting requires a total of 3.5 mil sp just for the suit and the weapon/wdmg mods. All specific to 1 role, before any other things are considered. The IAFG does about 545 damage per second (sustained DPS including reloads). If you were a lazy tanker and threw on 3x enhanced armor reps, with maxed armor rep skill ( a total of 1.2 mil sp) You would tank 450 hp/sec, forever, without any input from you. This means that the IAFG would require around 52 straight seconds of firing at you, without you moving, or firing back, or anything, and a supply of nanohives which it can't carry, in order to blow you up. Oh yeah that seems balanced. LOL you are so rediculous its making my side hurt. My suggestion for you is to GG. Skill into Proto FG with proficiency 5 reload speed and ammo and get your complex damage mods on a Basic proto hvy suit instead of throwing out numbers like a geek. I have and do solo Maddys/Gunnys all the time now, then, PC, ambush, Dom,Skrim. You complaining about this issue and not giving up on it makes you come off as a noob scrub thats mad you only have 3 million sp and it will take me to long. WA WA WA Quit your crying on the forums grab your proto FG and fight the tankers back to the redline ya P U S S.
Tanslation: MATH HARD..... GROG NO LIKE MATH..... GROG LIKE TANK.....GROG MAKE TANK SEEM EASY KILL..... GROG CALL NAMES........ GROG SMART |
MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
171
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:47:00 -
[85] - Quote
Lol nobody reply to this guy anymore, he's just trolling us.
R.I.P. Pre-1.7 tanks, you will be missed.
|
Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
1740
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:48:00 -
[86] - Quote
Hold on lemme go grab a bucket.
Patrick57 Carries us all
Tanker Prof. V scrub
Q_Q moar
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
318
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:49:00 -
[87] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Lol nobody reply to this guy anymore, he's just trolling us.
Yep, math, facts, debunking, totally trolling.
Just try to show some kind of proof that tanks aren't insanely OP.
Some dude was offering 50 mil isk for video evidence earlier for proof of people who say soloing tanks is easy. You can convince me with just math, no need to set up any equipment.
Oh you can't do it? That's a shmae.... |
Salt Dog 76
Red Star.
EoN.
71
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:50:00 -
[88] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:YourDeadAgain76 wrote:These are our STD tanks, i cant wait to see you guys freekout when/if we get our ADV and Proto HAV's. LOL
If you are posting about Tanks being OP and you cant solo us with militia,STD FG/SL.
Then you are an idiot AV'r. To those of you that have ADV or Proto AV with Proficiency 4 or 5 with Complex Damage mods i dont here you guys saying HAV'S are OP.
You know why....cause they aint,....its because HAV's are not that hard to solo. Hell if you got 2 Av'rs with ADV or Proto with Damage mods n some av nades, we pop with a little effort if you try.
Another tad bit of info for ya Av scrubs. Use teamwork, Get proto, or get lost.
Proof or STFU. Here is a bit of math for you: IAFG does 2047 dmg per shot with proficiency 5 and 2 complex damage mods. There is no infantry based AV that does more sustained damage than the IAFG, it is the premier AV, to top tier, the counterpoint to a fully skilled gunnlogi or maddrugar. This fitting requires a total of 3.5 mil sp just for the suit and the weapon/wdmg mods. All specific to 1 role, before any other things are considered. The IAFG does about 545 damage per second (sustained DPS including reloads). If you were a lazy tanker and threw on 3x enhanced armor reps, with maxed armor rep skill ( a total of 1.2 mil sp) You would tank 450 hp/sec, forever, without any input from you. This means that the IAFG would require around 52 straight seconds of firing at you, without you moving, or firing back, or anything, and a supply of nanohives which it can't carry, in order to blow you up. Oh yeah that seems balanced.
Dont need nanohives 1 clip is all you need scrub. |
The Attorney General
2192
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:51:00 -
[89] - Quote
A more comprehensive list:
Thread #1
AV defenders:
SoldierSaint, Beren Hurin, French Fancy, Son Down
Thread #2
Defenders:
Cody Seitz, Tech Ohm(sort of), StlCarlos, Djinn Leukoplast, Castba, Asirius Medaius, Rynoceros, R'adeh Hunt,
Thread #3
Banning Hammer, Delta 749(here listed, although also a participant in other threads)
Thread #4
Just Calisk on this one.
Thread #5
Wolfgang Erikson, Krasymptimo
Thread #6
Minivan Survivor, Still Blazn, Mike Molle
I could keep going, but maybe by now you get the point.
Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light
Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
318
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 20:51:00 -
[90] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:A more comprehensive list: Thread #1AV defenders: SoldierSaint, Beren Hurin, French Fancy, Son Down Thread #2Defenders: Cody Seitz, Tech Ohm(sort of), StlCarlos, Djinn Leukoplast, Castba, Asirius Medaius, Rynoceros, R'adeh Hunt, Thread #3Banning Hammer, Delta 749(here listed, although also a participant in other threads) Thread #4Just Calisk on this one. Thread #5Wolfgang Erikson, Krasymptimo Thread #6Minivan Survivor, Still Blazn, Mike Molle I could keep going, but maybe by now you get the point.
REserved. |
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