Before:
AV is invulnerable to Tanks (rendering glitch)

Now:
Tanks are invulnerable to infantry and most AV

Before:
Blah Blah ISK

Now:
200k tank >>>>>>>>>>>> 200k suits

Before:
1 AV'er killing 3 tanks is OP

Now:
1 tank killing squads not OP

Before:
Tanks need teamwork to survive!!

Now:
Tanks should be able to SOLO!! Make AV require teamwork.

Then:
400M range locks down entire field

Now:
lol railguns and killing infantry at 200 Ms with blasters....


Yeah, you guys never get to talk about underpowered again... ever. You have no credibility left.

really? you're actually going to try to deny his points with anecdotal evidence of how you are the magical jesus of blowing up tanks?

all right then....

may I suggest video evidence of your elite tank fighting skills, I personally would enjoy watching the batman of tank fighting deal with tanks like they were your whipping boys.

You are making an unproven cliam, I am calling you a liar. Proof or STFU... that is the way science works, you make a claim, YOU PROVE IT WITH EVIDENCE. The burden of proof is not on me, it is on you.

Lets see a video montage of you solo'ing tanks, otherwise you ARE A PROVEN LIAR.

That is all, carry on topic.

And yet you refused to accept my evidence on how not to suck as an HAV player...

Hypocrite much?

And you call my posts loaded

Name the times you are available to be on, I will see if I can make it. I will also try to set up some type of video capture equipment so that afterwards, we can see the complete and utter liar you are.

So we will queu for amarr/caldari FW yes?

ALSO: Still doesn't change 1 thing in the orignal post, tanks are exactly what tankers used to complain about. Tanks are invulnerable, non-sp-intensive, cheap, omgwtfpwn-mobiles. IF ANY tanker had even the least shred of dignity, they would be crying just as loudly as they did before about the imbalance.

Uh... I do not remember the huge outcry from infantry when AV was getting nerfed into the ground. I do not remember people defending AV grenades, and I sure don't remember anyone have a problem with the AV grenade nerf.

I do remember tankers crying non-stop about how tanks were sooo easy to kill, even though they could still kill LEGIONS of infantry then as well. Tanks were glass cannons then, they could kill a lot and die a lot. Now they just kill a lot and your community thinks everything is balanced. See OP.

first one is directed at attim, so he can deal with that

Second and third one HAVE THE SAME GUY claiming swarms are either fine or need a buff. King CHECKMATE. This is not a reasoned arguement, you are just picking one dude and repeatedly showing his post as proof. Just look through the forums at the time.

It was concensus that vehicles needed a buff, from all corners of the community. It was concensus that swarm range was too far.

Also, swarms did need an alteration then, but not the way you are thinking. Swarms get +25% dmg per tier, thats ridiculous. So back then, militia/standard swarms were balanced (other than range) but adv and proto were way too good. The problem with swarms was/is the damage scaling.

Um, look at AV grenade damage. Hypocrisy?
I haven't seen a single AV grenade kill this build not to mention the fact I haven't seen one thrown.

no.

I know Bad Furry and an AV grenade is "usefull" for three things in build 1.7

1 wasting isk
2 wasting CPU PG
3makeing Bad Furry and other tankers say LOOK! an IDIOT! with av grenades...

I got a tank with Lai dais (packed) yesterday.

Actually, neither you, or BAD are a credible source for anything with such little information.

Were AV grenades the only weapon you used?

How much HP did BAD have left?

Why was BAD close enough to be AV Grenadiered?

A person also stole my HAV kill with a Freedom Mass Driver once. If you answered yes to the first question, then Mass Drivers are an AV weapon, and BAD FURRY is both bad, and should feel bad too.

If you answered no to the first question, then AV weapons are not relevant, and your argument is invalid.

---

av grenades are useless as a primary.

adds you to red star list.

Unless you can disprove my first statement, AV grenades are both irrelevant and usless as an AV weapon. Even for vehicle suppression.

I don't need aiming to be done for me. If I did then I would have Aim Assist on and I wouldn't be able to use Railguns as well as I do (and did pre 1.7)

Personally, I believe that AV Grenades should be high damaging on the following basis:

• AV grenades have a pitiful range. If you get close enough to be pelted by AV Grenades, you deserve the punishment for your lack of situational awareness.
• The tracking radii of AV Grenades is so small that you'd practically always land a hit regardless of the tracking feature

Which gives me an idea.

Breach AV Grenade: Extreme damage and explodes on contact, but lack a tracking feature. Hows that sound?

Why do vehicles get the best of both worlds?

1. 20GJ Particle Cannons

2. XT-1 Missile Launchers

3. Grab Damage Modifiers if necessary.

4. Slaughter both Infantry, AV, and vehicles alike.

5. Profit.

But apparently it's all about that 80GJ

inb4 Facts.

Every practically every last one of my 'AV' kills have always been in CQC. Even with my Particle Cannon.

If you use a Forge Gun, on a Heavy Frame, why did BAD FURRY allow you to get so close to him? You move at 3m/s FFS.

I guess his name is BAD FURRY for a reason.

---

Seems as if you missed my point once more.

My idea for a Breach AV grenade would basically be the equivalent to what a Flux Grenade does to Gunnlogies. Not straight up kill, but definitely leave them running with a tail between your legs.

Didn't you yourself say that if AV grenades didn't have a tracking feature, they could deal the same amount of damage as Flux Grenades?

inb4 Even More Facts

So now BAD allowed an LAV to sneak up on him?

I guess that would fly, but isn't BAD a dedicated tanker? And don't dedicated tankers have SP into the Proficiency Skill at V which should offer better turning capabilities?

Even if he didn't, he would still have to stop in order to have allowed you to chuck AV grenades at him.

And wouldn't he also have to already be nearly dead for the AV grenades to work on him? Or did he allow you to jump out and charge your FG and fire at him repeatedly?

But wouldn't a Complex Armor Repairer have already repped his HP back in the time it would take to jump him in a LAV in the first place?

Something in your story doesn't quite check out.

I do strictly remember you saying that, but I won't waste my time digging through GD if you agree with the idea.

I'm not at my home atm, so unfortunately I can't. Send me some mail about what time is convenient for you and I'll be happy to tomorrow.

The weakness of the Minmatar Assault is literal weakness, and the fact that it has the defense and Anti-Infantry power of a Starter Fit. I guess mitigating it's weakness would be going on a tower where my weakness wouldn't hinder me right?

According to your logic, yes. Ironically that also makes you a scrub according to your logic.

Ah. So now BAD is lacking situation awareness? How pitiful. From the way your riding him I'd think he was much better than that.

An HAV doesn't need to be stopped before you use your AV grenades, but unless you have your sensitivity jacked up to 100 (which I highly doubt considering you were using a FG), you wouldn't be able to get the proper arc needed to throw the AV grenades at a moving HAV, whilst charging a FG shot before he got away.

Yep. Despite investing vast amounts of SP into my Limbus build, and with all my time using Swarm Launchers I definitely have never fought an HAV in CQC. Thanks for contributing to my earlier point.

That was the point. It affects turret rotation speed, so he should have been able turn around and kill you. Especially if you hopped out and charging a FG in a Heavy Frame..

Unless you expect me to believe that you threw AV grenades at BAD with perfect accuracy, whilst also charging a Forge Gun with apparently no resistance from BAD whatsoever.

I don't know tanks huh? That's kinda funny considering how I was a tanker before an AVer, but okay.

I'll leave you with this TL;DR:

Let's see here:

3x Complex Damage Mods
1x Ishukone Assault Swarm Launcher (The Specialist variant isn't worth the long charge tbh)

The 3 Damage Mods is about 204CPU, plus the 118CPU from the SL means that you have 392 CPU eaten before you even get into fitting your sidearm or AV/Flux Grenades, couple that with the fact that you have to put CPU Enhancers in your low slots (392 CPU doesn't fit well with a Minmatar Assault suit, and at best you'll be able to fit an extra 2 Basic Shield Extenders.

An extra 44HP?... Wow that's so strong

Lol Sidearms. What's the range of Kaalikiota RR again? Now what's the range of an Ishukone ASMG?

Gee, sidearms are so helpful.

Now I've made some pretty damn stupid posts before, but you sir clearly take the cake on this one.