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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
442
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Posted - 2014.02.05 14:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
This community needs to stop complaining about AA and stop including the removal of it as a serious discussion in balance issues.
This game was a trash FPS without Aim Assist. If Dust had launched with the gameplay we have right now, its reviews would have been a ton better. Every major console FPS, from Halo to BF to CoD has AA. Most of it a LOT stronger than Dust currently has.
AA is needed for console controls to feel tight. The only way this game survives and grows is with aim assist on and as strong as it currently is. This is doubley true when kb/m is an option and lack of aim assist will give every player doubt that the person that killed them actually had more skill, or just used a better input device.
If you want dust to be a tiny little game that nobody plays, then cool, keep demanding that aim assist goes away cause "its a crutch." But honestly, I disregard anyone's opinion who thinks AA is a bad thing, as they are likely not a console FPS player and have no idea what they are talking about.
Complaining about AA is the excuse of folks who have a good gun game, but no other FPS skills so they assume the only reason that other guy killed them is because of AA (not because he has better awareness, better map knowledge, better team work, better builds, faster response time or anything else).
AA is a staple of console FPS games. DUST is not some unique pony when it comes to it. AA IS CONSOLE FPS. Its what makes playing FPS with a controller work. So quit being idiots. |
ResistanceGTA
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
164
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Posted - 2014.02.05 14:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
So... I should turn AA on?
P.A.I.R.- Pilot Against Invisible RDVs.
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
443
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
You can play however you want. It IS playable with it off because a lot of Dust was balanced around folks being unable to shoot eachother due to lack of AA early on. But there is no reason to NOT have AA on. Honest question, why do you have it off now? |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1617
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:This community needs to stop complaining about AA and stop including the removal of it as a serious discussion in balance issues.
This game was a trash FPS without Aim Assist. If Dust had launched with the gameplay we have right now, its reviews would have been a ton better. Every major console FPS, from Halo to BF to CoD has AA. Most of it a LOT stronger than Dust currently has.
AA is needed for console controls to feel tight. The only way this game survives and grows is with aim assist on and as strong as it currently is. This is doubley true when kb/m is an option and lack of aim assist will give every player doubt that the person that killed them actually had more skill, or just used a better input device.
If you want dust to be a tiny little game that nobody plays, then cool, keep demanding that aim assist goes away cause "its a crutch." But honestly, I disregard anyone's opinion who thinks AA is a bad thing, as they are likely not a console FPS player and have no idea what they are talking about.
Complaining about AA is the excuse of folks who have a good gun game, but no other FPS skills so they assume the only reason that other guy killed them is because of AA (not because he has better awareness, better map knowledge, better team work, better builds, faster response time or anything else).
AA is a staple of console FPS games. DUST is not some unique pony when it comes to it. AA IS CONSOLE FPS. Its what makes playing FPS with a controller work. So quit being idiots.
Well you nailed it right there. I love KZ, play it everyday. But I would say that no AA has never once has been a benefit to the game as for as gaining or keeping players. They play KZ for what it is, or don't play it for what it is, But AA is not a pro for the reasons.
AA in consoles in many FPS games, now and those coming down the pike are a main stay. complaining about it, is like complaining about getting snow when you live in NY. (United States) |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4445
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
If you need Aim Assist then please STFU and Get Good.
[/thread]
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1333
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Go biomass
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
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Sgt Buttscratch
1442
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
stop complaining..... Some players run roles based on speed, stealth and manouvering... AA negates speed and manouvering. aslong as at one point that player is within X of your reticle, the gun will trackfire.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1617
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tho I should have added it my post it should always be a option. I think that would have helped with KZ. Those that wanted it on could have turned it on. and those who didn't would leave it off. Better option then just giving up on the game.
KZ is FPS test of skill. Way too many .40 and .50 players. You get to see who really got use to AA way too much. lol But I think it's awesome for those who stick with it, and then that .50 turns to 1.00.
K/d may not be everything. but .50k/d your pretty much useless in objective and TDM. |
CRYPT3C W0LF
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
328
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Unfortunately, aim assist will continue to be a part of practically EVERY Shooter for a console. Although I wouldn't mind if they toned down AA to half its strength now. I get that AA negates and diminishes Speed tanking, and a variety of other tactics, but honestly, they only added Aim assist to improve the fluency of the game, as much as it has unintentionally effected other aspects
Ahhhh....
CPM? Nononono
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Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
313
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
If you need AA to aim, you must have no coordination on your thumbs. Just because every console FPS has it doesn't mean news one should have it too. MAG didn't have a real aim-assist and it was great. Dumbasses couldn't shoot for their life and skilled players actually did good.
In fact, if I had a PS4, I probably buy the new Killzone because of the lack of AA.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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Knight Solitaire
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Remove AA from Low-Sec battles, keep the carebear **** for High-Sec.
/Done
Definitely not who you think I am.
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Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
313
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Surt gods end wrote:Tho I should have added it my post it should always be a option.
No! It should never be an option.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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HYENAKILLER X
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
551
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
I stopped using aim assist when I got the combat rifle.
In my defense this is my first multiplayer fps on console.
I dont judge others for using it because it really is fun kicking ass. I would make it almost manditory for all fps to have the option.
But when debates about who is better start rolling around people using aim assist dont deserve to be in those descussions as runners.
No matter what anyone says or does, this is a team game. Have fun, contribute and get what you want from it.
Tanks are for pusssies.
You are welcome for my leadership.
Proven Aggressive Type
I have spoken.
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Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1333
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Go biomass
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
583
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't get why if AA is going to be a thing, then why not turn it on for all weapons? Why are weapons like sniper rifle, shotguns, plasma cannon, forge guns all without AA?
AA is a huge reason rifles are the only weapons in the game.
If we have come to the conclusion that AA is necessary then stop treating half the weapons as 2nd class weapons. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1617
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Marlin Kirby wrote:Surt gods end wrote:Tho I should have added it my post it should always be a option. No! It should never be an option.
Here is the thing... there are players out there who know NOT what a Rig is except to say "a truck" so for them they need AA. I play both fps on my rig and console. And tho my preference is no aa, but as a great fps player I SEE NO CON in AA being in.
If your a great fps player then AA is HELPING YOU OUT EVEN MORE. lol And as a stealth scout, AA is negated to begin with. Meaning as in your dead before you know what hit you.
You don't drum the PC FPS rules on consoles. I play my fps on consoles are the DS3. On my rig the kb/m. Going full nerd with Kb/m on a console is not me. feels weird man.
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Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
1188
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
HAha.. lol.. sorry i have to post on this...
Still defending the aim assist ? and then worrying about Dust being ported to the PC because people "May" cheat with things like "aimbots" ?
You don't like hacking.. but you are defending a hack.... this community still funny as ever i see. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1617
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:HAha.. lol.. sorry i have to post on this... Still defending the aim assist ? and then worrying about Dust being ported to the PC because people "May" cheat with things like "aimbots" ? You don't like hacking.. but you are defending a hack.... this community still funny as ever i see.
That also is weird. lol Tho I'll like to see who play dust on PC? Home of FPS. |
tastzlike chicken
ROGUE SPADES
130
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
AA in this game needs to be minimized to an anorexic shadow of what it is. Or kill it entirely. It clouds many discussions of weapon balance. |
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
314
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Surt gods end wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote:Surt gods end wrote:Tho I should have added it my post it should always be a option. No! It should never be an option. Here is the thing... there are players out there who know NOT what a Rig is except to say "a truck" so for them they need AA. I play both fps on my rig and console. And tho my preference is no aa, but as a great fps player I SEE NO CON in AA being in. If your a great fps player then AA is HELPING YOU OUT EVEN MORE. lol And as a stealth scout, AA is negated to begin with. Meaning as in your dead before you know what hit you.
Aim-assist is implemented into consoles narrows the gap between players. AA may make me better, but AA makes crappy players more better (shut up, it makes sense in my head). I may still be better at a game than dunmthumbs over there, but the gap is reduced to where my skill matters less.
Surt gods end wrote: You don't drum the PC FPS rules on consoles. I play my fps on consoles are the DS3. On my rig the kb/m. Going full nerd with Kb/m on a console is not me. feels weird man.
I won't. I happen to think PC shooters are also bullshit because they're point and click adventures where you character has an unreal reaction time (tapping "A" and "D" repetitively)
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
654
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Speed tanking is negated with AA. Take it out and we'll see the return of Scouts that can actually survive if they are seen.
I use AA because it's there. I don't need it, my gun game is good enough without it. There was a really good FPS on PS2, Black. No AA AT ALL and it was the best game on PS2, with few exceptions. AA is not required in FPS's, it's just that COD fans got so used to it that they suck without it.
I play all sorts of games, adventure, action, action-adventure, RPG's and yes, even FPS's. AA was not in FPS's and were not a staple of them until COD introduced it. Take it out and this game will be what it was supposed to be.
And one last thing: To those who say that it makes it fair to the slightly lesser skilled players, CCP has stated "PvP is inherently unbalanced".
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
449
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aim asisst isnt a hack. Again, this is ignorant PC players who know nothing about console gaming trying to make a point.
Look at Halo. That game is a sport. MLG pretty much became a thing BECAUSE of halo. It has a MASSIVE range of skill sets. Come play me in halo and see if you can even get a kill.
Hint, you wont.
But it has incredibly strong AA. More than DUST.
AA doesnt negate the ability to aim. What it does do is make it so when you DO aim, your aim sticks a bit to compensate for you OVER adjusting your aim. It doesnt lock it on, it doesnt magically hover to the spot. you have to AIM first, it simply makes it a bit easier to mantain that aim and help you from over correcting due to the lack of fine input on a joystick.
A player with better aim will still destroy a player with none. What it avoids is the stupid stuff you saw in dust where two players who knew were facing each other could dance around each other for an entire clip without landing more than a few bullets.
AA does not completely negate speed or stealth. I will admit, it makes scouts a lot easier to kill once you know they are there. But if you get close enough, the stickyness of the aim assist wont matter at all. And speed is still incredibly useful for limitng the amount of time you are in the open and getting an enemies flank.
I was pretty decent at this game before AA, im pretty decent at it now. The difference is, I see less stupid fights where nobody can shoot each other. And more importantly, when I show this game to my friends they dont hate it. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
449
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote: AA was not in FPS's and were not a staple of them until COD introduced it.
Wrong. It was Halo. Theres some articles on Bungie and AA and how it made FPS gaming on the console a thing people actually found acceptible.
Quote: Take it out and this game will be what it was supposed to be.
No. This game was terrible without AA. It was a joke. Youd have a guy like Aldin just throwing down a proto rep nano and dancing on it while an entire squad shot at him because his proto gear and reps were so high people couldnt out dps his reps. Aldin is good, but the fact he could do that had little to do with HIS skill and more to do with how ****** the controls were. |
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
314
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Aim asisst isnt a hack. Again, this is ignorant PC players who know nothing about console gaming trying to make a point.
Look at Halo. That game is a sport. MLG pretty much became a thing BECAUSE of halo. It has a MASSIVE range of skill sets. Come play me in halo and see if you can even get a kill.
Hint, you wont.
But it has incredibly strong AA. More than DUST.
AA doesnt negate the ability to aim. What it does do is make it so when you DO aim, your aim sticks a bit to compensate for you OVER adjusting your aim. It doesnt lock it on, it doesnt magically hover to the spot. you have to AIM first, it simply makes it a bit easier to mantain that aim and help you from over correcting due to the lack of fine input on a joystick.
A player with better aim will still destroy a player with none. What it avoids is the stupid stuff you saw in dust where two players who knew were facing each other could dance around each other for an entire clip without landing more than a few bullets.
AA does not completely negate speed or stealth. I will admit, it makes scouts a lot easier to kill once you know they are there. But if you get close enough, the stickyness of the aim assist wont matter at all. And speed is still incredibly useful for limitng the amount of time you are in the open and getting an enemies flank.
I was pretty decent at this game before AA, im pretty decent at it now. The difference is, I see less stupid fights where nobody can shoot each other. And more importantly, when I show this game to my friends they dont hate it.
HALO being a sport means nothing. CoD is a sport too you know and **** that game.
AA does negate the ability to aim because all I have to do is turn on the x-axis until I hit a red-dot and it doesn't matter anymore, it's time to mindlessly shoot.
And of course there's still skill, there's just less of it.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
314
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote: No. This game was terrible without AA. It was a joke. Youd have a guy like Aldin just throwing down a proto rep nano and dancing on it while an entire squad shot at him because his proto gear and reps were so high people couldnt out dps his reps. Aldin is good, but the fact he could do that had little to do with HIS skill and more to do with how ****** the controls were.
No, that shows that the nanohive is broken.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
449
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quote:AA does negate the ability to aim because all I have to do is turn on the x-axis until I hit a red-dot and it doesn't matter anymore, it's time to mindlessly shoot.
This is an exgeration to say the least. Strafing is still incredibly key. If AA was as strong as you say, it would be useless to do so. But its not, its 100% vital still. So tell me, if strafing is still key, then wouldnt better aim negate better strafing still? |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1081
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:This community needs to stop complaining about AA and stop including the removal of it as a serious discussion in balance issues.
This game was a trash FPS without Aim Assist. If Dust had launched with the gameplay we have right now, its reviews would have been a ton better. Every major console FPS, from Halo to BF to CoD has AA. Most of it a LOT stronger than Dust currently has.
Umm you do realise that EVERY review DUST has recieved on Uprising 1.0 launch and then on the 1.6(for some reviews and 1.7 for otherss... They have LOST significant review score...
DUST is horrific in reviews right now... No console shooter really needs Aim assist. A Majority of all FPS's have never had AA.
Kill Zone : Shadow Fall.. No Aim assist and you can see nothing but DUST Chromosome player names all day in multiplayer...
Soccom 4 : No Aim assist.
MAG : No Aim Assist.
CS:GO No Aim assist and full raw input mouse and keyboard on both Ps3 and 360..
Aim assist has fundamentally changed DUST for the worse... Where Health points and shots that land don;t matter much... Where the speed difference from Jim to Bob mean s nothing my computer program tracks them indiscriminately and even if im off i have magnetic bullets.
In CoD where you can die in a headshot... Deaths don't matter at all other then a mark on your "Epeen" Then sure Aim assist makes sense in those quick react with minimal consequences kinda games.
Dust every death costs you assets, every player has a slight difference in the speed they move... Health points aren't the same value for everyone... then we can start looking at 16 vs 16 and 16 aim assists.... no one would be able to cross open spaces...
It's just a feature that has hurt DUST more then it has helped a few bullets that weren't registering before. And going through past youtube vid's is proof enough for anyone that has been around DUST for a while. |
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
655
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Luna Angelo wrote: AA was not in FPS's and were not a staple of them until COD introduced it. Wrong. It was Halo. Theres some articles on Bungie and AA and how it made FPS gaming on the console a thing people actually found acceptible. Quote: Take it out and this game will be what it was supposed to be.
No. This game was terrible without AA. It was a joke. Youd have a guy like Aldin just throwing down a proto rep nano and dancing on it while an entire squad shot at him because his proto gear and reps were so high people couldnt out dps his reps. Aldin is good, but the fact he could do that had little to do with HIS skill and more to do with how ****** the controls were. Again, once they introduce ways to reduce Proto Stomping, why would THAT matter? You could do the same with 3 logi's holding rep tools, no one complains about that.
My other point still stands, it didn't exist till that point, and COD only exasperated it with yearly releases. Black did not have it and it was one of the best games out there. Yes, at that time I sucked at it, but I worked hard and got so much better. And certain weapons on this game are AA disabled. SR, SG, MD, etc. do NOT have it and, other than the MD and a few others, they kill FASTER than the AR's. SR's in the right hands can 1, 2, or 3-shot ANYTHING. SG's are beastly at CQC, as they should be. My point is, you don't NEED AA for this game to work, now that hit detection has been (somewhat) fixed. It negates Speedy Scouts, because it DOES follow. I know, as I said, I use it.
I am not a PC gamer by any stretch of the imagination, I suck at KB/M games. I play console games almost exclusively. I play THIS GAME almost exclusively. And yes, I was here in Chromosome, with the immortal heavies and such. Oh... wait... they weren't immortal. I still killed killed them, with STD gear, it just took more skill.
Not saying that anyone who uses AA sucks, because I use it, and that would be me calling myself sucky. I mean that it doesn't need to be here, or not as strong as it is. Weaken it by 50-60% and Speed tanking will be back. Or remove it outright.
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
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Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1617
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote:Speed tanking is negated with AA. Take it out and we'll see the return of Scouts that can actually survive if they are seen.
I use AA because it's there. I don't need it, my gun game is good enough without it. There was a really good FPS on PS2, Black. No AA AT ALL and it was the best game on PS2, with few exceptions. AA is not required in FPS's, it's just that COD fans got so used to it that they suck without it.
I play all sorts of games, adventure, action, action-adventure, RPG's and yes, even FPS's. AA was not in FPS's and were not a staple of them until COD introduced it. Take it out and this game will be what it was supposed to be.
And one last thing: To those who say that it makes it fair to the slightly lesser skilled players, CCP has stated "PvP is inherently unbalanced".
I love Black too, but if I remember it wasn't a multiplayer game. Only SP. So we can't say how it would have been without AA.
KZ on the other hand I think it's a awesome game. and has no AA. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1081
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Quote:AA does negate the ability to aim because all I have to do is turn on the x-axis until I hit a red-dot and it doesn't matter anymore, it's time to mindlessly shoot. This is an exgeration to say the least. Strafing is still incredibly key. If AA was as strong as you say, it would be useless to do so. But its not, its 100% vital still. So tell me, if strafing is still key, then wouldnt better aim negate better strafing still?
Actually standing still will let you dodge most players fire better then trying to move...
When you aren't moving usually they are giving to much input and having to aim for themselfs and usually miss..
And it isn't even close to an exaggeration it is proven in over 10 youtube video's...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFqlnXZU6bw Example.
Now seriously is that an essential lesson that all DUST merc's should learn? Because if it is, I choose wrong with investing any time into this game. |
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
655
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Posted - 2014.02.05 16:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
Surt gods end wrote:Luna Angelo wrote:Speed tanking is negated with AA. Take it out and we'll see the return of Scouts that can actually survive if they are seen.
I use AA because it's there. I don't need it, my gun game is good enough without it. There was a really good FPS on PS2, Black. No AA AT ALL and it was the best game on PS2, with few exceptions. AA is not required in FPS's, it's just that COD fans got so used to it that they suck without it.
I play all sorts of games, adventure, action, action-adventure, RPG's and yes, even FPS's. AA was not in FPS's and were not a staple of them until COD introduced it. Take it out and this game will be what it was supposed to be.
And one last thing: To those who say that it makes it fair to the slightly lesser skilled players, CCP has stated "PvP is inherently unbalanced". I love Black too, but if I remember it wasn't a multiplayer game. Only SP. So we can't say how it would have been without AA. KZ on the other hand I think it's a awesome game. and has no AA. Used Black because I knew the game, and yet, my point still stands. You still need to aim, regardless of whether it's SP or MP.
And I forgot one thing: Everyone gets upset at: Brick tanking, Dual tanking, etc. Removing AA will cut back, without eliminating, these, as more people will Speed tank again.
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
449
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Posted - 2014.02.05 16:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
i currently speed "tank". i cant stand in front of guys and make them miss, but i can use the environment to keep them from having stable LOS and make them miss and get good flanks. The scouts of old were silly. You had folks like annie oakley running out in the open into a squad and just shotgunning everyone without dying. Thats dumb. That is a bad game that allows that.
Scouts should be ewar and flanking, not "dance in front of you".
You may have a fondness for those things, but they are BAD gameplay.
Im not saying lack of AA dust wasnt fun in its own tiny, niche way. But that game was dying, it was impossible to get most people to give it a chance because they couldnt hit people.
Hell, even I pretty much adjusted to never fighting anyone who knew I was there because theyd just dodge me while someone else got a better angle and killed me or them. I was decent at playing the game this way, but it was silly.
If you insist on AA removal. Cool, we can all be elitist kings of our tiny little castle that nobody cares about because most people think the game is a terrible joke. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1081
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote: i currently speed "tank". i cant stand in front of guys and make them miss, but i can use the environment to keep them from having stable LOS and make them miss and get good flanks. The scouts of old were silly. You had folks like annie oakley running out in the open into a squad and just shotgunning everyone without dying. Thats dumb. That is a bad game that allows that.
Scouts should be ewar and flanking, not "dance in front of you".
You mean Cal Logi? not scout... unless chromosome? then definitely not... with chromosomes good aiming and hit detection.. he had to use a lot of LoS tricks and flanking...
speed tanking isn't viable in a competitive aspect of DUST...
ANYTHING can be made viable with situational awareness in a Public match...
Sheesh look at the Plasma cannon in Pub's .... Can get scores higher then most people come to the forums bragging about... But take it to a PC or que synced FW? pfft.
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Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
1191
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Posted - 2014.02.05 16:33:00 -
[34] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Bones McGavins wrote: i currently speed "tank". i cant stand in front of guys and make them miss, but i can use the environment to keep them from having stable LOS and make them miss and get good flanks. The scouts of old were silly. You had folks like annie oakley running out in the open into a squad and just shotgunning everyone without dying. Thats dumb. That is a bad game that allows that.
Scouts should be ewar and flanking, not "dance in front of you".
You mean Cal Logi? not scout... unless chromosome? then definitely not... with chromosomes good aiming and hit detection.. he had to use a lot of LoS tricks and flanking... speed tanking isn't viable in a competitive aspect of DUST... ANYTHING can be made viable with situational awareness in a Public match... Sheesh look at the Plasma cannon in Pub's .... Can get scores higher then most people come to the forums bragging about... But take it to a PC or que synced FW? pfft.
Speed hacking to beat the aimbot ....now we only need a wallhack to beat the Speed hack and .. ohh wait.... |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
450
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
I think they were scouts before they were cal logi. I think cal logi only became the speed tanker FOTM at uprising?
But yeah, im probably referring to uprising, cal logi speed tanking. Shotgunning in open fields, surrounded by reds. Running through groups of reds dropping RE.
And if you think this is just in pubs, go watch some early PC vids. Youll see Team Player ringers versus Negative Feedback (so some of the best players in the game) and speed tankers just run through without getting touched.
So, its not just "oh you people suck at aiming" stupid stuff that was laughable to most FPS players was happening at the highest levels. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:i currently speed "tank". i cant stand in front of guys and make them miss, but i can use the environment to keep them from having stable LOS and make them miss and get good flanks. The scouts of old were silly. You had folks like annie oakley running out in the open into a squad and just shotgunning everyone without dying. Thats dumb. That is a bad game that allows that.
Im not saying lack of AA dust wasnt fun in its own tiny, niche way. But that game was dying, it was impossible to get most people to give it a chance because they couldnt hit people. .
You are making stuff up now to sound correct. There wasn't one video or review or even mention that a player has made that said they aren't gonna play DUST because they can't "HIT" or Aim at anything.. that was one of the reasons people logged on everyday... to get "better" at aiming....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHWpFIAkvC0
That is why people stop playing DUST since Uprising launch it all comes down to the terrible NPE.
When someone isn't aiming well and knows it's them... The last thing they blame is "The lack of Aim Assist on this console game" That idea and concept is hilarious... They work on improving their aim and it adds to the game play. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1920
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
OP, Dust was just fine before AA was introduced. You were just used to having AA, so not having it was foreign to you, and the game probably felt 'unresponsive' or 'clunky' to you. I had the same issue. You just have to learn how to not rely on aim assist, you will end up being a far better player if you do.
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
MAG ~ Seryi Volk Executive Response
|
Syeven Reed
RETR0 PR0 GAMERS INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
293
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:50:00 -
[38] - Quote
Atiim wrote:If you need Aim Assist then please STFU and Get Good.
[/thread] Don't you tank?
Gÿé Syeven 514
|
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
659
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
You know, I like how everyone except the OP is saying that AA can go or be dialed back, and he is the ONLY one defending it. I use it, yes, but I wish I didn't have to use it to be competitive. Dust before AA was much more fun. It gave people an excuse to TRY to shoot at the proto people.
And speed tanking MEANS not that you run AWAY quickly, it means that you can get under their gun and then circle around them so fast that they don't stand a chance, but if they see you, you die. High HP and Speed Tanking are not compatible, hence why the Matari have the lowest HP, to encourage speed tanking.
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
|
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
1191
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:i currently speed "tank". i cant stand in front of guys and make them miss, but i can use the environment to keep them from having stable LOS and make them miss and get good flanks. The scouts of old were silly. You had folks like annie oakley running out in the open into a squad and just shotgunning everyone without dying. Thats dumb. That is a bad game that allows that.
Im not saying lack of AA dust wasnt fun in its own tiny, niche way. But that game was dying, it was impossible to get most people to give it a chance because they couldnt hit people. . You are making stuff up now to sound correct. There wasn't one video or review or even mention that a player has made that said they aren't gonna play DUST because they can't "HIT" or Aim at anything.. that was one of the reasons people logged on everyday... to get "better" at aiming.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHWpFIAkvC0That is why people stop playing DUST since Uprising launch it all comes down to the terrible NPE. When someone isn't aiming well and knows it's them... The last thing they blame is "The lack of Aim Assist on this console game" That idea and concept is hilarious... They work on improving their aim and it adds to the game play.
Is like playing football with a ball that Auto-aims to the goal all the time..Anyone that can hit the ball will become a Professional football player. Consoles is making Kids lazy..nothing wrong with some mental exercise to keep you brain muscles in top shape.
|
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
661
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:56:00 -
[41] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Bethhy wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:i currently speed "tank". i cant stand in front of guys and make them miss, but i can use the environment to keep them from having stable LOS and make them miss and get good flanks. The scouts of old were silly. You had folks like annie oakley running out in the open into a squad and just shotgunning everyone without dying. Thats dumb. That is a bad game that allows that.
Im not saying lack of AA dust wasnt fun in its own tiny, niche way. But that game was dying, it was impossible to get most people to give it a chance because they couldnt hit people. . You are making stuff up now to sound correct. There wasn't one video or review or even mention that a player has made that said they aren't gonna play DUST because they can't "HIT" or Aim at anything.. that was one of the reasons people logged on everyday... to get "better" at aiming.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHWpFIAkvC0That is why people stop playing DUST since Uprising launch it all comes down to the terrible NPE. When someone isn't aiming well and knows it's them... The last thing they blame is "The lack of Aim Assist on this console game" That idea and concept is hilarious... They work on improving their aim and it adds to the game play. Is like playing football with a ball that Auto-aims to the goal all the time..Anyone that can hit the ball will become a Professional football player. Consoles is making Kids lazy..nothing wrong with some mental exercise to keep you brain muscles in top shape. If you're American, like myself, he means soccer, I'm almost 100% sure of it.
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
|
Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
514
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:59:00 -
[42] - Quote
Marlin Kirby wrote:If you need AA to aim, you must have no coordination on your thumbs. Just because every console FPS has it doesn't mean news one should have it too. MAG didn't have a real aim-assist and it was great. Dumbasses couldn't shoot for their life and skilled players actually did good.
In fact, if I had a PS4, I probably buy the new Killzone because of the lack of AA.
Hows mag doing these days?
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
|
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
10595
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:59:00 -
[43] - Quote
If you're actually a skilled player, then you're still going to stomp an unskilled player using AA.
This is just DUST, where people want to shove their opponent so far into the dirt that it actually forces an uninstall and sets their ps3 on fire.
No on in this game wants a challenge.
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
|
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
451
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:01:00 -
[44] - Quote
Yes, im the only one posting, but notice the folks liking the OP? So its not exactly an unshared viewpoint.
I adapted to lack of AA. I was fine. My k/d hasnt changed much since AA. A meh game is 2 for me and better games go double digits. I run by myself or with a buddy so we are typically on the ass end of proto stompings and still hold our own. Not amazing, but definitely solid. This was how it was prior to AA and how it is post AA. I run speed/stealth adv min assault and adv gallante scout.
I aimed fine in chromosome, I aimed fine in uprising.
I mean, no, I didnt, but compared to most players, I was ok. It was still a joke compared to most FPS games.
Im not defending AA because I need it. Im defending it because the gameplay was a disaster before it. I was fine in that disasterous gameplay, cause I like the ideas DUST has. But dust (in a gameplay, not in balance) is in a much better place for me to show a buddy and have him enjoy himself now than it was prior to AA.
Look at the uprising control complaints. Those ALL died when AA came in. Now people blame AA for other things and dumbing down the game, but nobody is complaining that the hit detection or controls blow. |
Akdhar Saif
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
216
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
The AA in games like COD are alot stronger than in Dust. Don't know what people are complaining about. |
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
661
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:05:00 -
[46] - Quote
It's still a cheap way to make the tryhards feel better. I love this game, have for a year now, but AA is making it boring. If you want to know, I actually do better WITH AA than I did without it, but I still enjoyed it more when it wasn't here.
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
|
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
451
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:06:00 -
[47] - Quote
Quote:If you're actually a skilled player, then you're still going to stomp an unskilled player using AA.
This.
AA doesnt magiclaly make a bad player kill a good one. It makes it so people arent emptying enitre clips at eachother standing in the open.
Prior to AA my gallante scout could run into a group and murder everyone untouched.
Prior to AA it was a legit tactic to not fire until the other player reloaded and then take them out uncontested while they reloaded.
Prior to AA it was a legit tactic to just cook a nade 1on1 while dancing and then whip it at their feet.
prior to AA it was a legit tactic to run through a blob of reds and drop RE.
This has very little to do with me "gettin gud" as I was the one doing these things, not being the victim of them. It was just obvious that nobody could kill you (nobody, not even good players) with regular gun play in the time it took you to do these other "aim free" tactics. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1084
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:08:00 -
[48] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:If you're actually a skilled player, then you're still going to stomp an unskilled player using AA.
This is just DUST, where people want to shove their opponent so far into the dirt that it actually forces an uninstall and sets their ps3 on fire.
No on in this game wants a challenge.
If you think this is about unskilled players using AA.... lawls....
Let's just say your premise is right and every post in this thread is about unskilled FPS players killing all of us tooo much!!!(LAWLS)
What would you think highly skilled players would do with such a tool?
You would of been better trying to make the point you have tried to make relevant since 1.4 "remove AA when you remove M/KB"
And then you talk about a challenge and how a computer program tracking people is better then someone physically using a peripheral.
Your just full of self contradiction Fiend. |
Sgt Buttscratch
1444
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:09:00 -
[49] - Quote
you can still drop REs, BPO scout suit MLT kitkat/PD, RE's. No-one ever notices me until I have placed 3 remotes in their little clumps, I suicide or get killed, then watch the screen as Kill+50 and equipment destroyed +5 rollllllllllllls down my screen
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
|
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
1191
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Quote:If you're actually a skilled player, then you're still going to stomp an unskilled player using AA. This. AA doesnt magiclaly make a bad player kill a good one. It makes it so people arent emptying enitre clips at eachother standing in the open. Prior to AA my gallante scout could run into a group and murder everyone untouched. Prior to AA it was a legit tactic to not fire until the other player reloaded and then take them out uncontested while they reloaded. Prior to AA it was a legit tactic to just cook a nade 1on1 while dancing and then whip it at their feet. prior to AA it was a legit tactic to run through a blob of reds and drop RE. This has very little to do with me "gettin gud" as I was the one doing these things, not being the victim of them. It was just obvious that nobody could kill you (nobody, not even good players) with regular gun play in the time it took you to do these other "aim free" tactics.
NO.. seriously no.. What AA does is that i can kill as much people as before when watching TV at the same time ..Before my PS3 broke i watched the full series of Stargate SG-1 as i was playing...
No way i could do that in CS... CCP is making a game for lazy people. |
|
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
453
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:12:00 -
[51] - Quote
To opponents of AA, I honestly want you to go watch youtube videos of NF versus STB(team player ringers) and watch how ****** it is. These are the best players in the game, with the best gun game, and runnng through the enemy dropping RE is something that works.
Note, im not saying they flanked and got them from behind undetected, they run straight at them, and through them, speed tanking the gunfire.
Do you honestly think that was good gameplay? Please defend how even in the top levels, such a suicidal move could be successful?
I get it, there is a wider gap between skilled and unskilled players without AA.
But honestly, i think the bigger problem people have is...
back when AA wasnt around, TTK was a ton higher. So the gap between proto and adv, or adv and std gear was a lot more meaningful. AA reduces tier advantage, and folks dont like that. |
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
662
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:13:00 -
[52] - Quote
Bethhy and I don't usually agree, the fact that we do now is amusing. AA cheapens this game more so than, say, COD, where you get killed instantly. I hate COD for that reason. I play this because I actually stand a chance of living for ten seconds. I do better WITH AA than without it, but I did well enough without it to be feared and sent hate mail for using Shotty Scout (AKA "Easy Mode" though how it was that, IDK.)
The fact is, I STOPPED being a Shotty Scout when Uprising dropped because it was nearly useless to be it because of the AA.
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
|
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
453
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:15:00 -
[53] - Quote
Quote:No way i could do that in CS... CCP is making a game for lazy people. CS? PC gamer? Doesnt understand console FPS...noted. Everything I said was true. Your counter point had nothing to do with what I said. You ignored all the stupid things I could accomplish with AA off. And then brought up a PC shooter...from 20 years ago?
Quote:you can still drop REs, BPO scout suit MLT kitkat/PD, RE's. No-one ever notices me until I have placed 3 remotes in their little clumps, I suicide or get killed, then watch the screen as Kill+50 and equipment destroyed +5 rollllllllllllls down my screen
Yes, because you snuck up on them. The key here is "no-one ever notices me". Back before AA it didnt matter if they noticed you or not. You could run at them, by them, and drop REs on them, all while they shot at you. |
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
662
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:To opponents of AA, I honestly want you to go watch youtube videos of NF versus STB(team player ringers) and watch how ****** it is. These are the best players in the game, with the best gun game, and runnng through the enemy dropping RE is something that works.
Note, im not saying they flanked and got them from behind undetected, they run straight at them, and through them, speed tanking the gunfire.
Do you honestly think that was good gameplay? Please defend how even in the top levels, such a suicidal move could be successful?
I get it, there is a wider gap between skilled and unskilled players without AA.
But honestly, i think the bigger problem people have is...
back when AA wasnt around, TTK was a ton higher. So the gap between proto and adv, or adv and std gear was a lot more meaningful. AA reduces tier advantage, and folks dont like that. "Folks don't like their crutch being removed" is basically your argument? Seriously? I use STD gear, did in Chromosome, and I LOVED killing Proto people with it. Proto heavies were particularly fun, as they sent me fan mail after EVERY kill.
And I find it rich that someone defending AA is using THAT argument.
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
|
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
454
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:19:00 -
[55] - Quote
Its true though. It was a LOT harder for std gear to kill proto before AA. The TTK was a ton higher, so the extra ehp or dps or reps from proto gear had a much bigger role. Not saying thats the only reason people want AA off. But when people refer to how "great" it was before... I cant help but think that may be a cause. |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
1193
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Quote:No way i could do that in CS... CCP is making a game for lazy people. CS? PC gamer? Doesnt understand console FPS...noted. Everything I said was true. Your counter point had nothing to do with what I said. You ignored all the stupid things I could accomplish with AA off. And then brought up a PC shooter...from 20 years ago? Quote:you can still drop REs, BPO scout suit MLT kitkat/PD, RE's. No-one ever notices me until I have placed 3 remotes in their little clumps, I suicide or get killed, then watch the screen as Kill+50 and equipment destroyed +5 rollllllllllllls down my screen Yes, because you snuck up on them. The key here is "no-one ever notices me". Back before AA it didnt matter if they noticed you or not. You could run at them, by them, and drop REs on them, all while they shot at you.
And i don't think you understand gaming .. console or pc. What is the point of having a Controller if the game itself is doing half of the job for you ? You may just play an interactive movie where you just have to choice A or B, probably don't even need a controller for that.. just a couple of buttons in a stick. |
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
662
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:23:00 -
[57] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Its true though. It was a LOT harder for std gear to kill proto before AA. The TTK was a ton higher, so the extra ehp or dps or reps from proto gear had a much bigger role. Not saying thats the only reason people want AA off. But when people refer to how "great" it was before... I cant help but think that may be a cause. But it's PROTO. It SUPPOSED to be better, to go with the COST. High risk, high reward. Now it's better running STD gear than Proto for the cost efficiency (not that that's a bad thing, mind you) but in Chrome, when Proto meant something, how many Protos did you actually see? And no, I would still NOT use proto, as I think it's a coward's tactic. I use ADV or lesser ONLY. And kill the Protos who try too hard.
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
|
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
315
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:25:00 -
[58] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote:If you need AA to shootersyou must have no coordination on your thumbs. Just because every console FPS has it doesn't mean news one should have it too. MAG didn't have a real aim-assist and it was great. Dumbasses couldn't shoot for their life and skilled players actually did good.
In fact, if I had a PS4, I probably buy the new Killzone because of the lack of AA. Hows mag doing these days?
As dead as a dead horse. I guess that's what happens to games that have a terrible ad campaign while being sandwiched between the releases of MW2 and BC2. Not to mention the false information reviewers gave and some poor decisions made in post-production by Zipper. None of which involved AA.
Not that SONY wanted to cut all existing relations with the now nonexistent Zipper. SOCOM4 and SOCOM Con were shutdown on the same day.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
662
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:25:00 -
[59] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:Quote:No way i could do that in CS... CCP is making a game for lazy people. CS? PC gamer? Doesnt understand console FPS...noted. Everything I said was true. Your counter point had nothing to do with what I said. You ignored all the stupid things I could accomplish with AA off. And then brought up a PC shooter...from 20 years ago? Quote:you can still drop REs, BPO scout suit MLT kitkat/PD, RE's. No-one ever notices me until I have placed 3 remotes in their little clumps, I suicide or get killed, then watch the screen as Kill+50 and equipment destroyed +5 rollllllllllllls down my screen Yes, because you snuck up on them. The key here is "no-one ever notices me". Back before AA it didnt matter if they noticed you or not. You could run at them, by them, and drop REs on them, all while they shot at you. And i don't think you understand gaming .. console or pc. What is the point of having a Controller if the game itself is doing half of the job for you ? You may just play an interactive movie where you just have to choice A or B, probably don't even need a controller for that.. just a couple of buttons in a stick. If you want a game where it does nearly everything for you, play Beyond: Two Souls. As much as I love that game, it holds your hand. This game is all about diversity, and yet, 1/4 of the tanking styles is useless.
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
|
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
844
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
Marlin Kirby wrote:If you need AA to aim, you must have no coordination on your thumbs. Just because every console FPS has it doesn't mean news one should have it too. MAG didn't have a real aim-assist and it was great. Dumbasses couldn't shoot for their life and skilled players actually did good.
In fact, if I had a PS4, I probably buy the new Killzone because of the lack of AA. So you want EVEN MORE noobs to leave? |
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1086
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:26:00 -
[61] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Its true though. It was a LOT harder for std gear to kill proto before AA. The TTK was a ton higher, so the extra ehp or dps or reps from proto gear had a much bigger role. Not saying thats the only reason people want AA off. But when people refer to how "great" it was before... I cant help but think that may be a cause.
False yet again.
Any skilled player could make a new 500k Sp character and compete directly with their friends in Chromosome..
Because player skill was the first thought and skill points and gear was an after thought.
Players knew instantly when they dueled another quality FPS player and would remember their name from gained mutual respect.
A new player doesnt stand a chance anymore unless the Vet makes a massive mistake or has their back turned for a long period....
Its My AA locks, Your AA locks. My skill points, Gear subtracted your skill points and gear = winner.
Skill and the ability for a skilled FPS player to download DUST jump in and be relevant is gone... The ability for new characters to compete with skill is gone.
This is like Coloring by the numbers but done in shooter form it's ruined any sense of achievement in killing someone its an empty pointless feeling that leaves most people bored after an hour of DUST 514 game play... Unless watered down ALOOOT by social interaction. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
454
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:26:00 -
[62] - Quote
I know proto is supposed to be better. Im just saying the gap was wider with AA off.
Ill also say, Luna you seem reasonable. Everyone but a select few obvious PC elitists are so. I respect that. I can even see how the old gameplay could be considered more fun. It was defnitely more unique. But for every console FPS player I showed dust to, it was a major turn off.
And i think folks (like a certain panther) VASTLY overstate the impact AA has on narrowing the skill gap. And have a fundemental misunderstanding of what AA does and does not do. And if you ever want dust to be more than a niche game, AA is needed. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
844
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:27:00 -
[63] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote:Speed tanking is negated with AA. Take it out and we'll see the return of Scouts that can actually survive if they are seen.
I use AA because it's there. I don't need it, my gun game is good enough without it. There was a really good FPS on PS2, Black. No AA AT ALL and it was the best game on PS2, with few exceptions. AA is not required in FPS's, it's just that COD fans got so used to it that they suck without it.
I play all sorts of games, adventure, action, action-adventure, RPG's and yes, even FPS's. AA was not in FPS's and were not a staple of them until COD introduced it. Take it out and this game will be what it was supposed to be.
And one last thing: To those who say that it makes it fair to the slightly lesser skilled players, CCP has stated "PvP is inherently unbalanced". My scout suit can survive being seen And no, I'm not tanking HP |
Komodo Jones
Chaotik Serenity
437
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:27:00 -
[64] - Quote
This game was a trash FPS before aim assist because people could use mouse and keyboard.
I learned how to aim without AA, **** it was and odd match when I didn't get at least 3 headshots, it's definitely do-able.
This might seem troll-y but if you want more flexibility in terms of fittings and a solution to the TTK issue, remove mouse and keyboard support, then remove aim assist, it's harsh but it will definitely work, things like speed tanking will actually become viable again.
This is a signature.
You're now reading it.
You may now reply to my post.
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
456
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:30:00 -
[65] - Quote
Betthy...accoridng to your post...what FPS game ISNT "paint by numbers for shooters?"
All the popular, highly reviewed games have aim assist a lot stronger than dust.
And you are lying to yourself if you think AA removes the need for skill. Thats the argument that makes anti-AA people look like they want to blame AA for their loss instead of player skill. The player still needs to aim on you, the player still needs to react quicker. All AA does it slow down their aim as they pass over you and make it a bit sticky to make it easier to hold the aim once they have done so.
It does not aim for them. They have to aim first. So someone with a quicker draw and better ability to aim on a target will still win. The only skill being mitigated a bit is the ability to hold aim on a moving target. But in the wide range of skills needed for an FPS game, that isnt as game changing as youd like to suggest. |
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
663
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:31:00 -
[66] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Luna Angelo wrote:Speed tanking is negated with AA. Take it out and we'll see the return of Scouts that can actually survive if they are seen.
I use AA because it's there. I don't need it, my gun game is good enough without it. There was a really good FPS on PS2, Black. No AA AT ALL and it was the best game on PS2, with few exceptions. AA is not required in FPS's, it's just that COD fans got so used to it that they suck without it.
I play all sorts of games, adventure, action, action-adventure, RPG's and yes, even FPS's. AA was not in FPS's and were not a staple of them until COD introduced it. Take it out and this game will be what it was supposed to be.
And one last thing: To those who say that it makes it fair to the slightly lesser skilled players, CCP has stated "PvP is inherently unbalanced". My scout suit can survive being seen And no, I'm not tanking HP Perhaps I should rephrase: It's impractical to Speed tank.
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
663
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:33:00 -
[67] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Betthy...accoridng to your post...what FPS game ISNT "paint by numbers for shooters?"
All the popular, highly reviewed games have aim assist a lot stronger than dust.
And you are lying to yourself if you think AA removes the need for skill. Thats the argument that makes anti-AA people look like they want to blame AA for their loss instead of player skill. The player still needs to aim on you, the player still needs to react quicker. All AA does it slow down their aim as they pass over you and make it a bit sticky to make it easier to hold the aim once they have done so.
It does not aim for them. They have to aim first. So someone with a quicker draw and better ability to aim on a target will still win. The only skill being mitigated a bit is the ability to hold aim on a moving target. But in the wide range of skills needed for an FPS game, that isnt as game changing as youd like to suggest. Once more, I STOP aiming as soon as the reticle turns red. It follows the target like a guided missile. What does that say?
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
|
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
315
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:34:00 -
[68] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote:If you need AA to aim, you must have no coordination on your thumbs. Just because every console FPS has it doesn't mean news one should have it too. MAG didn't have a real aim-assist and it was great. Dumbasses couldn't shoot for their life and skilled players actually did good.
In fact, if I had a PS4, I probably buy the new Killzone because of the lack of AA. So you want EVEN MORE noobs to leave?
No, I want more skill involved. People don't leave because there isn't AA they do it because there's no hope in improving. Getting proto and tank stomped scares people away.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
|
Silas Swakhammer
GamersForChrist Orion Empire
346
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:34:00 -
[69] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:If you want dust to be a tiny little game that nobody plays, then cool, keep demanding that aim assist goes away . . . quit being idiots.
Pineapples on pizza.
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
844
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:35:00 -
[70] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:i currently speed "tank". i cant stand in front of guys and make them miss, but i can use the environment to keep them from having stable LOS and make them miss and get good flanks. The scouts of old were silly. You had folks like annie oakley running out in the open into a squad and just shotgunning everyone without dying. Thats dumb. That is a bad game that allows that.
Im not saying lack of AA dust wasnt fun in its own tiny, niche way. But that game was dying, it was impossible to get most people to give it a chance because they couldnt hit people. . You are making stuff up now to sound correct. There wasn't one video or review or even mention that a player has made that said they aren't gonna play DUST because they can't "HIT" or Aim at anything.. that was one of the reasons people logged on everyday... to get "better" at aiming.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHWpFIAkvC0That is why people stop playing DUST since Uprising launch it all comes down to the terrible NPE. When someone isn't aiming well and knows it's them... The last thing they blame is "The lack of Aim Assist on this console game" That idea and concept is hilarious... They work on improving their aim and it adds to the game play. I stopped playing when uprising lauched because aiming was crap
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1087
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:36:00 -
[71] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:I know proto is supposed to be better. Im just saying the gap was wider with AA off.
Ill also say, Luna you seem reasonable. Everyone but a select few obvious PC elitists are so. I respect that. I can even see how the old gameplay could be considered more fun. It was defnitely more unique. But for every console FPS player I showed dust to, it was a major turn off.
And i think folks (like a certain panther) VASTLY overstate the impact AA has on narrowing the skill gap. And have a fundemental misunderstanding of what AA does and does not do. And if you ever want dust to be more than a niche game, AA is needed.
Tripwire President John Gibson wrote:the skill gap is so compressed, that itGÇÖs like a slot machine. You might as well just sit down at a slot machine and have a thing that pops up an says GÇ£I got a kill!GÇ¥ TheyGÇÖve taken individual skill out of the equation so much. So you see these guysGÇöI see it all the time, they come in to play Red Orchestra, and theyGÇÖre like GÇ£This gameGÇÖs just too hardcore. IGÇÖm awesome at Call of Duty, so thereGÇÖs something wrong with your game. Because IGÇÖm not successful at playing this game, so it must suck. IGÇÖm not the problem, itGÇÖs your game.GÇ¥ And sometimes as designers, it is our game. Sometimes we screw up, sometimes we design something thatGÇÖs not accesible enough, they canGÇÖt figure it out, we didnGÇÖt give them enough information to figure out where to go... but more often than not, itGÇÖs because Call of Duty compressed their skill gap so much that these guys never needed to get good at a shooter. They never needed to get good at their twitch skills
Fact is people are buying a PS4 and KZ:SF because of the multiplayer not having AA.
DUST would do much better catering to that FPS market... Rather then try and Cater to the AA-short-TTK CoD, Battlefield.. market that is nearly impossible to compete with.
I can count 8 personal gaming friends i play games with all the time that quit specifically over the Aim Assist feature. You can say that your friends wouldn't touch DUST because it didn't have AA.... But that to any logical person that knows DUSt sounds like bullshit.
There are 20 different major issues that would become a massive issue with DUST before a computer program helping someone Aim would be one. |
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
316
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:39:00 -
[72] - Quote
Komodo Jones wrote: This might seem troll-y but if you want more flexibility in terms of fittings and a solution to the TTK issue, remove mouse and keyboard support, then remove aim assist, it's harsh but it will definitely work, things like speed tanking will actually become viable again.
Sure, less point and click adventuring and "A"/"D" tapping.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
|
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
1193
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:42:00 -
[73] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Bethhy wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:i currently speed "tank". i cant stand in front of guys and make them miss, but i can use the environment to keep them from having stable LOS and make them miss and get good flanks. The scouts of old were silly. You had folks like annie oakley running out in the open into a squad and just shotgunning everyone without dying. Thats dumb. That is a bad game that allows that.
Im not saying lack of AA dust wasnt fun in its own tiny, niche way. But that game was dying, it was impossible to get most people to give it a chance because they couldnt hit people. . You are making stuff up now to sound correct. There wasn't one video or review or even mention that a player has made that said they aren't gonna play DUST because they can't "HIT" or Aim at anything.. that was one of the reasons people logged on everyday... to get "better" at aiming.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHWpFIAkvC0That is why people stop playing DUST since Uprising launch it all comes down to the terrible NPE. When someone isn't aiming well and knows it's them... The last thing they blame is "The lack of Aim Assist on this console game" That idea and concept is hilarious... They work on improving their aim and it adds to the game play. I stopped playing when uprising lauched because aiming was crap
This ^
I still don't understand why CCP changed the aiming.. everyone was happy with it, except for few loud mouth trolls in the forums.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1089
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:46:00 -
[74] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Dexter307 wrote: I stopped playing when uprising lauched because aiming was crap
This ^ I still don't understand why CCP changed the aiming.. everyone was happy with it, except for few loud mouth trolls in the forums.
CCP Wolfman said at the time the Chromosome Aiming system was causing a 1-3 Frames Per Second drop.
When Uprising Launched they put Infinite acceleration curves onto the DS3 joysticks...
So you wouldnt cap out on your scan speeds it would keep getting faster and was near impossible to get consistency out of it.
Because Mouse and Keyboard was a full ds3 Emulation on Uprising launch it made Mouse and keyboard near useless.. You could make the same movement with the mouse and get a different input result everytime... there was no muscle memory... it was all like shooting in the dark...
Or trying to have a gun battle with giant wet fish... |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
845
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:47:00 -
[75] - Quote
Marlin Kirby wrote:Dexter307 wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote:If you need AA to aim, you must have no coordination on your thumbs. Just because every console FPS has it doesn't mean news one should have it too. MAG didn't have a real aim-assist and it was great. Dumbasses couldn't shoot for their life and skilled players actually did good.
In fact, if I had a PS4, I probably buy the new Killzone because of the lack of AA. So you want EVEN MORE noobs to leave? No, I want more skill involved. People don't leave because there isn't AA they do it because there's no hope in improving. Getting proto and tank stomped scares people away. Terrible aiming mechanics will also scare people away Dusts aiming is in a good place right now so I'd rather they didn't mess it up |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1089
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:51:00 -
[76] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote:Dexter307 wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote:If you need AA to aim, you must have no coordination on your thumbs. Just because every console FPS has it doesn't mean news one should have it too. MAG didn't have a real aim-assist and it was great. Dumbasses couldn't shoot for their life and skilled players actually did good.
In fact, if I had a PS4, I probably buy the new Killzone because of the lack of AA. So you want EVEN MORE noobs to leave? No, I want more skill involved. People don't leave because there isn't AA they do it because there's no hope in improving. Getting proto and tank stomped scares people away. Terrible aiming mechanics will also scare people away Dusts aiming is in a good place right now so I'd rather they didn't mess it up
Turn off AA, its still terrible...
Lets not even get to the Move or the M/KB...
Stop letting them get away with this horrible band-aid.... |
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
316
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:54:00 -
[77] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote:.....I want more skill involved. People don't leave because there isn't AA they do it because there's no hope in improving. Getting proto and tank stomped scares people away. Terrible aiming mechanics will also scare people away Dusts aiming is in a good place right now so I'd rather they didn't mess it up
I also think not aiming directly on someone yet killing the target are good aiming mechanics.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
|
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
456
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:54:00 -
[78] - Quote
this horrible band aid is what makes console FPS games popular. There isnt one popular console FPS game without it.
I havent checked out the sales of KZ4, but its also the ONLY next gen FPS game. So I wager a lot of folks are trying ot specifically for that. Coming from dust, the aim in that game seemed fine though. So im shocked to find out it has no AA.
But it also has low TTK, so its not like you need to hit someone with 20-30 rounds to kill them like you do in dust. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
456
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:56:00 -
[79] - Quote
Quote:I also think not aiming directly on someone yet killing the target are good aiming mechanics.
This happened before AA as well. Its hard to know what is bullet magnetism and what is poor hit detection/lag. I agree, im not a fan of bullet magnetism as its too...random. When will my bullet hit, when wont it? Sticky aim is a pretty stable mechanic that isnt random. |
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
316
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 17:59:00 -
[80] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:this horrible band aid is what makes console FPS games popular. There isnt one popular console FPS game without it.AA
There isn't one because almost all of them do it.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
|
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1089
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 18:01:00 -
[81] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:this horrible band aid is what makes console FPS games popular. There isnt one popular console FPS game without it.
I havent checked out the sales of KZ4, but its also the ONLY next gen FPS game. So I wager a lot of folks are trying ot specifically for that. Coming from dust, the aim in that game seemed fine though. So im shocked to find out it has no AA.
But it also has low TTK, so its not like you need to hit someone with 20-30 rounds to kill them like you do in dust.
Check the TTK more... its much higher then DUST right now.
And DUSt had double the numbers when there was no aim assist.... Not only that but check server population density in August before the September 1.4 Aim assist release...
DUST didnt have massive peak times where the server population doubles ... Server population was consistent... because the game was ENJOYABLE... most people would logg on and have a hard time getting off until they where forced to sleep....
People play for an hour now... at best and if they play longer it requires a squad of friends to make it interesting... The fun and sense of achievement in DUST is gone.... Along with so many fun aspect's of the game like speed tanking... |
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
316
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 18:03:00 -
[82] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Quote:I also think not aiming directly on someone yet killing the target are good aiming mechanics. This happened before AA as well. Its hard to know what is bullet magnetism and what is poor hit detection/lag. I agree, im not a fan of bullet magnetism as its too...random. When will my bullet hit, when wont it? Sticky aim is a pretty stable mechanic that isnt random.
I sure as hell didn't notice it. I think you're mistaking that for random bullet spread (RBS).
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
|
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
845
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 18:11:00 -
[83] - Quote
Marlin Kirby wrote:Dexter307 wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote:.....I want more skill involved. People don't leave because there isn't AA they do it because there's no hope in improving. Getting proto and tank stomped scares people away. Terrible aiming mechanics will also scare people away Dusts aiming is in a good place right now so I'd rather they didn't mess it up I also think not aiming directly on someone yet killing the target are good aiming mechanics. That's called lag It's in every game When people stand still there's no magnatism |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1090
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 18:11:00 -
[84] - Quote
Marlin Kirby wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:this horrible band aid is what makes console FPS games popular. There isnt one popular console FPS game without it.AA There isn't one because almost all of them do it.
Kill zone...
Soccom...
CS;Go no aim assist raw mouse and keyboard input.... "CS:GO has hit a new peak concurrent player mark with 67,049 players on at the same time according to SteamGraph. This number breaks the old record of 54,097 which was hit in mid-November"
Not bad for a FPS game without Aim assist eh? Even broke the server numbers with EVE and DUST running....
And that's on a game that you said is what 20 years old? |
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
316
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 18:18:00 -
[85] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:this horrible band aid is what makes console FPS games popular. There isnt one popular console FPS game without it.AA There isn't one because almost all of them do it. Kill zone... Soccom... CS;Go no aim assist raw mouse and keyboard input.... "CS:GO has hit a new peak concurrent player mark with 67,049 players on at the same time according to SteamGraph. This number breaks the old record of 54,097 which was hit in mid-November" Not bad for a FPS game without Aim assist eh? Even broke the server numbers with EVE and DUST running.... And that's on a game that you said is what 20 years old?
I meant games that still provide service. Killzone is the only one I'm aware of.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
|
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
845
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 18:21:00 -
[86] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:this horrible band aid is what makes console FPS games popular. There isnt one popular console FPS game without it.AA There isn't one because almost all of them do it. Kill zone... Soccom... CS;Go no aim assist raw mouse and keyboard input.... "CS:GO has hit a new peak concurrent player mark with 67,049 players on at the same time according to SteamGraph. This number breaks the old record of 54,097 which was hit in mid-November" Not bad for a FPS game without Aim assist eh? Even broke the server numbers with EVE and DUST running.... And that's on a game that you said is what 20 years old? Dust and eve are niche games. Player count is not a good way to compare games |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1090
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 18:23:00 -
[87] - Quote
Marlin Kirby wrote:Bethhy wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:this horrible band aid is what makes console FPS games popular. There isnt one popular console FPS game without it.AA There isn't one because almost all of them do it. Kill zone... Soccom... CS;Go no aim assist raw mouse and keyboard input.... "CS:GO has hit a new peak concurrent player mark with 67,049 players on at the same time according to SteamGraph. This number breaks the old record of 54,097 which was hit in mid-November" Not bad for a FPS game without Aim assist eh? Even broke the server numbers with EVE and DUST running.... And that's on a game that you said is what 20 years old? I meant games that still provide service. Killzone is the only one I'm aware of.
CS:GO? lol people pay 15 bux for that and it has very high population numbers... With mouse and keyboard support and raw input on both the ps3 and 360...
And it isn't a title that sits advertising in the PSN store all day(Like DUST for 8 months)... Or ships a billion dollars in retail units like CoD Ghost(CCP would never be able to compete with this)Proof
A stand alone product based on it's merits as a FPS shooter. DUST had the same result's when it was without Aim assist... much higher server population density, much higher server populations... |
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
317
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 18:31:00 -
[88] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote: I meant games that still provide service. Killzone is the only one I'm aware of.
CS:GO? lol people pay 15 bux for that and it has very high population numbers... With mouse and keyboard support and raw input on both the ps3 and 360... And it isn't a title that sits advertising in the PSN store all day(Like DUST for 8 months)... Or ships a billion dollars in retail units like CoD Ghost(CCP would never be able to compete with this) ProofA stand alone product based on it's merits as a FPS shooter. DUST had the same result's when it was without Aim assist... much higher server population density, much higher server populations...
I thought you said CS had AA when using a controller. I must of misread.
I also heard that the hit-detection was bad compared to CS:S. I only heard though, never played them.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
|
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1091
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 18:36:00 -
[89] - Quote
Marlin Kirby wrote:Bethhy wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote: I meant games that still provide service. Killzone is the only one I'm aware of.
CS:GO? lol people pay 15 bux for that and it has very high population numbers... With mouse and keyboard support and raw input on both the ps3 and 360... And it isn't a title that sits advertising in the PSN store all day(Like DUST for 8 months)... Or ships a billion dollars in retail units like CoD Ghost(CCP would never be able to compete with this) ProofA stand alone product based on it's merits as a FPS shooter. DUST had the same result's when it was without Aim assist... much higher server population density, much higher server populations... I thought you said CS had AA when using a controller. I must of misread. I also heard that the hit-detection was bad compared to CS:S. I only heard though, never played them.
Eww no one likes source... ahahahah.
Is console as smooth as PC? nah ... but given the hardware changes in the last 6 years its not un expected there would be performance differences between the two.
But the console versions really are amazing.. its competitive FPS gameplay at its best... and functional matchmaking working as it should... But it is Valve. |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
1193
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 18:38:00 -
[90] - Quote
Marlin Kirby wrote:Bethhy wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote: I meant games that still provide service. Killzone is the only one I'm aware of.
CS:GO? lol people pay 15 bux for that and it has very high population numbers... With mouse and keyboard support and raw input on both the ps3 and 360... And it isn't a title that sits advertising in the PSN store all day(Like DUST for 8 months)... Or ships a billion dollars in retail units like CoD Ghost(CCP would never be able to compete with this) ProofA stand alone product based on it's merits as a FPS shooter. DUST had the same result's when it was without Aim assist... much higher server population density, much higher server populations... I thought you said CS had AA when using a controller. I must of misread. I also heard that the hit-detection was bad compared to CS:S. I only heard though, never played them.
CS never had a perfect hit-detection ...in any version. But that is part of the magic, setting your rates correctly is actually part of the game. |
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
867
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 18:47:00 -
[91] - Quote
I miss the days when losing to someone in a firefight meant they had better aim and hit you in the face faster than you could chew through them.
now it just means they have AA and a Fail Rifle.
Remove autoaim. The game was more fun, more people played it, and it made dust actually feel like a hardcore shooter that relied on your skills.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
845
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 18:51:00 -
[92] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:I miss the days when losing to someone in a firefight meant they had better aim and hit you in the face faster than you could chew through them.
now it just means they have AA and a Fail Rifle.
Remove autoaim. The game was more fun, more people played it, and it made dust actually feel like a hardcore shooter that relied on your skills. Without AA it felt like a joke where you could run past squads of people and take no damage Broke the immersion IMO |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
1193
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 18:57:00 -
[93] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:I miss the days when losing to someone in a firefight meant they had better aim and hit you in the face faster than you could chew through them.
now it just means they have AA and a Fail Rifle.
Remove autoaim. The game was more fun, more people played it, and it made dust actually feel like a hardcore shooter that relied on your skills. Without AA it felt like a joke where you could run past squads of people and take no damage Broke the immersion IMO
You see.. that is just a lie. I dare you to run across me in Chromosome and take not damage.. i double dare you !!!
Of course in Uprising with the ****** aiming you could easily do that... |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
845
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 19:01:00 -
[94] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Dexter307 wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:I miss the days when losing to someone in a firefight meant they had better aim and hit you in the face faster than you could chew through them.
now it just means they have AA and a Fail Rifle.
Remove autoaim. The game was more fun, more people played it, and it made dust actually feel like a hardcore shooter that relied on your skills. Without AA it felt like a joke where you could run past squads of people and take no damage Broke the immersion IMO You see.. that is just a lie. I dare you to run across me in Chromosome and take not damage.. i double dare you !!! Of course in Uprising with the ****** aiming you could easily do that... Uprising 1.0 yes You could easily do it in chromosome as well, it was almost comical. |
Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
868
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 19:07:00 -
[95] - Quote
and now you die if someone spins around holding down the trigger on their rail rifle, such realism! because you know, in the real world bullets automatically seek out a target to make sure the shooter's feelings aren't hurt because they have **** poor aim.
no wait, if your aim sucks IRL, you ****ing miss. remember missing your target in dust? most of the people playing now don't because the AA hits the target, no matter how bad their aim.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
|
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
317
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 19:08:00 -
[96] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote:Bethhy wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote: I meant games that still provide service. Killzone is the only one I'm aware of.
CS:GO? lol people pay 15 bux for that and it has very high population numbers... With mouse and keyboard support and raw input on both the ps3 and 360... And it isn't a title that sits advertising in the PSN store all day(Like DUST for 8 months)... Or ships a billion dollars in retail units like CoD Ghost(CCP would never be able to compete with this) ProofA stand alone product based on it's merits as a FPS shooter. DUST had the same result's when it was without Aim assist... much higher server population density, much higher server populations... I thought you said CS had AA when using a controller. I must of misread. I also heard that the hit-detection was bad compared to CS:S. I only heard though, never played them. Eww no one likes source... ahahahah. Is console as smooth as PC? nah ... but given the hardware changes in the last 6 years its not un expected there would be performance differences between the two. But the console versions really are amazing.. its competitive FPS gameplay at its best... and functional matchmaking working as it should... But it is Valve. Quote:"When bringing Counter-Strike to PS3 and Xbox, we wanted to make sure we weren't 'noobing' it, or dumbing it down. The game has an entry point for new players in its Casual Mode, but it's not ticking off the top players," he said.
He even said that during cross-platform play between PC and PS3, console players using a controller won't get any sort of auto-aim to compensate for the precision of a mouse and keyboard.
"We think that if you're really good with the controller, and you can match the fidelity of movement of the mouse and keyboard, then you'll hold your own. If not, well, you'll just be matched with people who play like you," Faliszek said, adding that PS3 players can also use a mouse and keyboard if they choose.
Remember they have raw input... ANd there are Gamepad users ontop of the leaderboards some consider the best player on the ps3 to be gamepad.
Interesting. You're the first person to say that "no one like Source." I've always gotten the opposite impression. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just different. Again, I never played either. The only Valve games I ever played were Portal 1&2.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
845
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 19:11:00 -
[97] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:and now you die if someone spins around holding down the trigger on their rail rifle, such realism! because you know, in the real world bullets automatically seek out a target to make sure the shooter's feelings aren't hurt because they have **** poor aim.
no wait, if your aim sucks IRL, you ****ing miss. remember missing your target in dust? most of the people playing now don't because the AA hits the target, no matter how bad their aim. IRL you don't have to aim with two small analog sticks
"and now you die if someone spins around holding down the trigger on their rail rifle, such realism!" Video proof or it didn't happen |
Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
869
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 19:17:00 -
[98] - Quote
IRL bullets don't magnetize to someone.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
|
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
845
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 19:23:00 -
[99] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:IRL bullets don't magnetize to someone. IRL dosent have lag either |
Doanna
WarRavens League of Infamy
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 19:25:00 -
[100] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:stop complaining..... Some players run roles based on speed, stealth and manouvering... AA negates speed and manouvering. aslong as at one point that player is within X of your reticle, the gun will trackfire. I run speed builds all the time and strafing to dodge bullets never seems to be an issue, they still spray to their heart's content in full proto.. and miss 3/4 of their shots. Could you please be a bit more specific with your statement? Like.. within what distance does AA do this? Otherwise, I'm afraid I've heard a lot of people say this but I've never seen the issue myself. |
|
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
845
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 19:32:00 -
[101] - Quote
Doanna wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:stop complaining..... Some players run roles based on speed, stealth and manouvering... AA negates speed and manouvering. aslong as at one point that player is within X of your reticle, the gun will trackfire. I run speed builds all the time and strafing to dodge bullets never seems to be an issue, they still spray to their heart's content in full proto.. and miss 3/4 of their shots. Could you please be a bit more specific with your statement? Like.. within what distance does AA do this? Otherwise, I'm afraid I've heard a lot of people say this but I've never seen the issue myself. I was worried I was the only one who felt this way My scout also dosent have to much of a problem dodging bullets |
Harpyja
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
1150
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 19:37:00 -
[102] - Quote
I honestly don't see why AA is such a huge deal. I even turned it on/off and I didn't notice any difference in my aim; these so called "auto-aim" and "locking-on" mechanics never show up for me as I can't stay on target on someone at range without my own input, much less in CQC where I'm just hipfiring and praying that I'm on target.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
|
NomaDz 2K
The Rainbow Effect
118
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 20:23:00 -
[103] - Quote
People can turn AA off from ingame options or How about Play KILLZONE Shadow Fall, No AIM ASSIST and Better NetCoding All U need is 1 copy of the game and a PS4 and you're set
DON'T SPEND CA$H ON DUST 514
CCP WILL ONLY GIVE YOU AUR AFTER THEY REMOVE YOUR BPOs WHICH U SPENT REAL MONGé¼Y ON!
|
Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
381
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 20:36:00 -
[104] - Quote
Removing AA isn't the right solution and anyone calling for it is ignoring the fact that the unreal engine blows.
Toning down the damage on all weapons associated with it is the correct solution.
They really need to be doing at LEAST 10-15% less base damage. At the VERY LEAST. |
Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
869
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 20:42:00 -
[105] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:IRL bullets don't magnetize to someone. IRL dosent have lag either
Someone's never been cripplingly drunk.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
|
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
461
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 21:21:00 -
[106] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:I miss the days when losing to someone in a firefight meant they had better aim and hit you in the face faster than you could chew through them.
now it just means they have AA and a Fail Rifle.
Remove autoaim. The game was more fun, more people played it, and it made dust actually feel like a hardcore shooter that relied on your skills.
see, this right here? This is someone who is bad at DUST (or isnt as good as they think they are) trying to rationalize why they arent doing better.
I just went 25-1 as a adv gallante scout with like 300 hp using a std cbr (not even speed tanked, ewar fit). Folks couldnt hit me. Danced my way to winning a number of 2on1s. Why didnt auto aim lock on me and instantly kill me? |
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
317
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 21:31:00 -
[107] - Quote
You flanked
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
|
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
461
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 21:33:00 -
[108] - Quote
Danced my way to winning a number of 2on1s.
bolded because you must have missed it... |
Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
869
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 21:56:00 -
[109] - Quote
congrats, you beat on academy newbs. now do this against a full protostomp of venezuela pricks abusing their third world connections to take no damage while they shoot through walls.
and 300HP on a scout? that's not an ewar fit as Gscouts have 200 base HP(combined). you had a plate on in one of your only two lows, and a tiny hitbox, with flanking.
yes, you beat a couple two on one fights. now how do you define two on one? You snuck up, killed a guy and then his buddy turned around? you charged head on? you killed two people at once with a remote explosive?
I do each of these regularly and it doesn't mean AA is fine, it just means the people I beat on were fresh out of the academy or terrible.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
|
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
461
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 23:18:00 -
[110] - Quote
Wait so now you're saying only valid test for AA is to play top talent? Shouldn't they be abl to hit me regardless of AA ? I thought the entire point was AA makes it so aiming skill doesn't matter? The test to prove that wrong is to stomp noobs. Clearly skilled players who are better than me will stop me from killing then. But that has zero to do with AA and more to do with them being better than me |
|
Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
869
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 23:38:00 -
[111] - Quote
no, it has to do with them being equal/better than you normally and then AA changing the natural outcome of the fight more than tactics can.
I.E. scout sneaks up, begins gunning down a caldari suit(600 DPS, caldari has 900 EHP), caldari suit revs RR BEFORE turning, firing before he even knows what's hitting him, whips around to the general direction of fire(red indicator) and thanks to chest-high aim, locks onto the scout, killing them nigh-instantly(scout has 300 ehp).
this is about players who know how the AA works, and abusing it.
one of my favorite kills was beating someone who did that, thanks to height advantage. he whipped around and shot the wall until he died.
Now, unfortunately height advantage for scouts is rare outside of cities, and otherwise, combat takes place on mostly level ground and open fields. this both neuters stealth combat tactics, and gives the advantage to simply stacking the most EHP and DPS you can run(heavies with Rail Rifles) and letting the AA handle the rest.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
|
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
310
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 01:17:00 -
[112] - Quote
AA the way it is right now, or more to the point the bullet magnetism basically makes KB/M play uncompetitive. Yes you get some kills but you will never have bullets sucked to your enemies head from hip firing around corners like AA people have.
This game was more fun back in chromosome without AA. I know we cant get chromosome back but we can build our way back only this time with things how they should be.
AA and bullet magnetism I think ruin a lot of features of this game. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
3922
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 01:32:00 -
[113] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:stop complaining..... Some players run roles based on speed, stealth and manouvering... AA negates speed and manouvering. aslong as at one point that player is within X of your reticle, the gun will trackfire. As a scout, I've noticed that there's rarely middle ground with people hitting me: either they miss a ton, or they land every shot.
Easy to tell that way who has aim assist, who doesn't, and who is legitimately good.
I am your scan error.
|
Marad''er
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
817
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 02:02:00 -
[114] - Quote
Aim assist should have never gotten introduced...
The reason aiming felt so poor was because hit detection was so awful. When they improves hit detection, they added in aim assist which imo bad.
Remove AA, leave good hit detection. It will be good. It'll be rough the first week though as players have to relearn they actually have to track targets now and can't let the system do it for them.
And also, what was wrong with "dancing to win 1v2s"? Obviously you won because you strafed and they didn't. If all three of you strafed, you would have lost. Strafing was the best mechanic ever. A 500sp character could strafe his way into beating bad proto players...
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 4 | Banishment this World! | PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
|
Buzzin Fr0g
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
236
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 07:43:00 -
[115] - Quote
Dust has always had wonky aiming mechanics but with the arrival of 1.4 and the ramped up AA this game has gotten unbearable. Took a few months hiatus and it seems that the ludicrous aim assist is more powerful now when coupled with new weapons like the rail gun rifles. As long as AA is as pronounced as it has been these past several updates Dust will not flourish. |
McFurious
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
607
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 08:48:00 -
[116] - Quote
Fiddlestaxp wrote:Removing AA isn't the right solution and anyone calling for it is ignoring the fact that the unreal engine blows.
Toning down the damage on all weapons associated with it is the correct solution.
They really need to be doing at LEAST 10-15% less base damage. At the VERY LEAST.
Pretty sure I saw a dev post mentioning a rifle nerf of 10%. We need a dev blog and patch notes ASAP.
Half Irish. Often angry.
Closed Beta Masshole
|
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
379
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 08:51:00 -
[117] - Quote
What I find a bit hypocritical is those that slam the use of proto suits (i.e. "protostomping"), yet in the same breath ask for AA to be removed. |
Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division Top Men.
682
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 09:33:00 -
[118] - Quote
Make it so AA only works when your scan precision is higher or equal to enemy profile.
BLAMMO! Instant AA balance. Want your Aimbot to work? Skill into precision enhancement and lose some tank. Git gud however, and these requirements become nonessential.
Under 28db
Officially nerfproof (predicting CR nerf February '14)
Selling SP: 10k SP per 100k ISK.
|
DootDoot
Da Short Buss Legacy Rising
184
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:10:00 -
[119] - Quote
Aim assist ruined all the work and effort I put into actually using the DS3 and getting better with it.I have tried to play DUST with AA off, but I'm not competitive doing so... People talk about BF4 and CoD Aim Assists and talk about how they are much stronger then DUST 514's.
There is a big difference everyone is missing in those games, No competitive circle in BF4 and CoD uses Aim assist because it hinders more then helps when you are actively good at aiming yourself. In those games with their uber strong AA, it is used almost non existent in competitive circles. In DUST? you HAVE to use it to be competitive otherwise your shots will blue shield and theirs will land..
Somewhere along the lines of introducing an Aim assist to help new players grasp aiming in DUST 514... We built an Aim bot that registers bullets better then someone without it.
And that is such an over powered feature to get over for anyone wanting to use their own ability in a FPS game.
|
Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
1051
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:16:00 -
[120] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:You can play however you want. It IS playable with it off because a lot of Dust was balanced around folks being unable to shoot eachother due to lack of AA early on. But there is no reason to NOT have AA on. Honest question, why do you have it off now?
The reason to keep AA off is so you won't stick to targets. That's my main reason. Sometimes papa gotta do trick shots.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
|
|
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
312
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 15:48:00 -
[121] - Quote
Dudes -
Hip firing with AA off or on a KB/M setup = bullets spread out and fire in a rough area.
Hip firing with AA on (In its working rang which is what 40-50m?) = Bullets from hipfire DO NOT spread and in stead magentise to peoples faces, around corners and through walls.
Aim Assist is a bad thing that needs to be addressed but it is bullet magnetism that is REALLY foul play. By any other standards it is a damn semi aim bot. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
848
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 16:12:00 -
[122] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:congrats, you beat on academy newbs. now do this against a full protostomp of venezuela pricks abusing their third world connections to take no damage while they shoot through walls.
and 300HP on a scout? that's not an ewar fit as Gscouts have 200 base HP(combined). you had a plate on in one of your only two lows, and a tiny hitbox, with flanking.
yes, you beat a couple two on one fights. now how do you define two on one? You snuck up, killed a guy and then his buddy turned around? you charged head on? you killed two people at once with a remote explosive?
I do each of these regularly and it doesn't mean AA is fine, it just means the people I beat on were fresh out of the academy or terrible. Gallente scout has 250 hp 162.5 armor 87.5 Shield One extender could get you 300 HP Also I think it's funny how you make up situations to try to argue your point. "those guys were just bad because I say so!" I've won 1v3s against proto suits with my shotgun in a advanced scout suit. Last time it happened first guy turned around right before I killed him, then the other 2 turned around as I took them down right after, managing to dodge the majority of their bullets. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
848
|
Posted - 2014.02.06 16:14:00 -
[123] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:Dudes -
Hip firing with AA off or on a KB/M setup = bullets spread out and fire in a rough area.
Hip firing with AA on (In its working rang which is what 40-50m?) = Bullets from hipfire DO NOT spread and in stead magentise to peoples faces, around corners and through walls.
Aim Assist is a bad thing that needs to be addressed but it is bullet magnetism that is REALLY foul play. By any other standards it is a damn semi aim bot. AA dosent change spread Also bullet magnatism is most likely just lag. Shooting around corners is definetly lag |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1108
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 02:31:00 -
[124] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:ANON Cerberus wrote:Dudes -
Hip firing with AA off or on a KB/M setup = bullets spread out and fire in a rough area.
Hip firing with AA on (In its working rang which is what 40-50m?) = Bullets from hipfire DO NOT spread and in stead magentise to peoples faces, around corners and through walls.
Aim Assist is a bad thing that needs to be addressed but it is bullet magnetism that is REALLY foul play. By any other standards it is a damn semi aim bot. AA dosent change spread Also bullet magnatism is most likely just lag. Shooting around corners is definetly lag
Because we where shooting around corners before? or did this "lag" magically show up?
No idea about spread o.O
|
KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
471
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 07:50:00 -
[125] - Quote
If you want Aim Assist, you are playing the wrong genre.
GTFO. |
Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
395
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 07:56:00 -
[126] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:This community needs to stop complaining about AA and stop including the removal of it as a serious discussion in balance issues.
This game was a trash FPS without Aim Assist. If Dust had launched with the gameplay we have right now, its reviews would have been a ton better. Every major console FPS, from Halo to BF to CoD has AA. Most of it a LOT stronger than Dust currently has.
AA is needed for console controls to feel tight. The only way this game survives and grows is with aim assist on and as strong as it currently is. This is doubley true when kb/m is an option and lack of aim assist will give every player doubt that the person that killed them actually had more skill, or just used a better input device.
If you want dust to be a tiny little game that nobody plays, then cool, keep demanding that aim assist goes away cause "its a crutch." But honestly, I disregard anyone's opinion who thinks AA is a bad thing, as they are likely not a console FPS player and have no idea what they are talking about.
Complaining about AA is the excuse of folks who have a good gun game, but no other FPS skills so they assume the only reason that other guy killed them is because of AA (not because he has better awareness, better map knowledge, better team work, better builds, faster response time or anything else).
AA is a staple of console FPS games. DUST is not some unique pony when it comes to it. AA IS CONSOLE FPS. Its what makes playing FPS with a controller work. So quit being idiots.
games don't take into accounts : - Fitting - Dodge - Passive Skills
AA totally negates the "dodge" factor which is the main advantage of speed. It makes Rifles WAY too powerful against "shotgun" / Laser rifle / Mass driver etcetc.....
AA should just be divided by 2 AND only appears when you're in Optimale Range. It would solve the RR problem in CQB or the CR problem that it kill at long range too easily.
|
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
476
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 16:10:00 -
[127] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:If you want Aim Assist, you are playing the wrong genre.
GTFO. Lol what? What genre? Console FPS? Where all the top dogs have AA? Thanks for your silly elitist post, you are a delight. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
476
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 16:16:00 -
[128] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:This community needs to stop complaining about AA and stop including the removal of it as a serious discussion in balance issues.
This game was a trash FPS without Aim Assist. If Dust had launched with the gameplay we have right now, its reviews would have been a ton better. Every major console FPS, from Halo to BF to CoD has AA. Most of it a LOT stronger than Dust currently has.
AA is needed for console controls to feel tight. The only way this game survives and grows is with aim assist on and as strong as it currently is. This is doubley true when kb/m is an option and lack of aim assist will give every player doubt that the person that killed them actually had more skill, or just used a better input device.
If you want dust to be a tiny little game that nobody plays, then cool, keep demanding that aim assist goes away cause "its a crutch." But honestly, I disregard anyone's opinion who thinks AA is a bad thing, as they are likely not a console FPS player and have no idea what they are talking about.
Complaining about AA is the excuse of folks who have a good gun game, but no other FPS skills so they assume the only reason that other guy killed them is because of AA (not because he has better awareness, better map knowledge, better team work, better builds, faster response time or anything else).
AA is a staple of console FPS games. DUST is not some unique pony when it comes to it. AA IS CONSOLE FPS. Its what makes playing FPS with a controller work. So quit being idiots. games don't take into accounts : - Fitting - Dodge - Passive Skills AA totally negates the "dodge" factor which is the main advantage of speed. It makes Rifles WAY too powerful against "shotgun" / Laser rifle / Mass driver etcetc..... AA should just be divided by 2 AND only appears when you're in Optimale Range. It would solve the RR problem in CQB or the CR problem that it kill at long range too easily. It doesn't negate dodge. It may lessen the ability to do so but it's still very viable. Speed tanking was just silly in the past, as we already discussed in this thread. I play scout and speed tanking s at a solid place. You have to be smart, can't jut stand there in the open making 3 people miss but you can still win 1on1s against assaults and logis by making them miss
Not if the player is really good, but that's how it should be. I shouldn't be able to take a really good player head on as a scout. The fact you could do that before speaks to the ****** gameplay pre AA |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
861
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 16:41:00 -
[129] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Dexter307 wrote:ANON Cerberus wrote:Dudes -
Hip firing with AA off or on a KB/M setup = bullets spread out and fire in a rough area.
Hip firing with AA on (In its working rang which is what 40-50m?) = Bullets from hipfire DO NOT spread and in stead magentise to peoples faces, around corners and through walls.
Aim Assist is a bad thing that needs to be addressed but it is bullet magnetism that is REALLY foul play. By any other standards it is a damn semi aim bot. AA dosent change spread Also bullet magnatism is most likely just lag. Shooting around corners is definetly lag Because we where shooting around corners before? or did this "lag" magically show up? No idea about spread o.O
Yes, even in beta people died around corners |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1117
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 16:59:00 -
[130] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:KA24DERT wrote:If you want Aim Assist, you are playing the wrong genre.
GTFO. Lol what? What genre? Console FPS? Where all the top dogs have AA? Thanks for your silly elitist post, you are a delight.
Even battlefield 3 didnt have Aim assist through all it's launched success's... they FINALLY had to implement it because of frostbite engine hit detection issues... that never got fixed after dice worked on them for over a year..
Go check what that did to the console version of bf3... the console community never really recovered till the end...
Now check bf4... Everyone talks about the console versions ridiculous AA... To the point where it is being echoed around the forums where people aren't playing the title exclusively for it... They are even on a mass petitioning scheme to remove Aim Assist in BF4 on Hardcore mode... And world gaming leagues are thinking about removing it from the competitive gaming leagues..
An epic CCP like U.I. control customization(Like they are known for in EVE) And stressed upon hit detection was always the answer for DUST 514.... The Ability to customize and map every button, The ability to tweak your ds3 deadzones, set you acceleration curve, remove the stupid sensitivity cap limit because most ds3 users are using 100% sensitivity..
Allowing the player to have epic customization and feel for their controls, then have a responsive hit detection system that compliments the players ability, Suit, equipment, battlefield role... is what will make DUST shine, and what has been asked for by the general community....
AA has cheapened DUST. Everyone that gets bored after an hour or so of play is proof. |
|
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1117
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 17:06:00 -
[131] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Bethhy wrote:Dexter307 wrote:ANON Cerberus wrote:Dudes -
Hip firing with AA off or on a KB/M setup = bullets spread out and fire in a rough area.
Hip firing with AA on (In its working rang which is what 40-50m?) = Bullets from hipfire DO NOT spread and in stead magentise to peoples faces, around corners and through walls.
Aim Assist is a bad thing that needs to be addressed but it is bullet magnetism that is REALLY foul play. By any other standards it is a damn semi aim bot. AA dosent change spread Also bullet magnatism is most likely just lag. Shooting around corners is definetly lag Because we where shooting around corners before? or did this "lag" magically show up? No idea about spread o.O Yes, even in beta people died around corners
Very rarely and clear rubber banding... felt by both sides.. i can count maybe one hand the amount of times it happened... and i spent ridiculous amount of time on DUST then. Uprising launch? nope... never did happen.. until 1.4
Now it could happen to almost everyone at least once a week at least if not a couple times per day....
|
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1122
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 17:10:00 -
[132] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:This community needs to stop complaining about AA and stop including the removal of it as a serious discussion in balance issues.
This game was a trash FPS without Aim Assist. If Dust had launched with the gameplay we have right now, its reviews would have been a ton better. Every major console FPS, from Halo to BF to CoD has AA. Most of it a LOT stronger than Dust currently has.
AA is needed for console controls to feel tight. The only way this game survives and grows is with aim assist on and as strong as it currently is. This is doubley true when kb/m is an option and lack of aim assist will give every player doubt that the person that killed them actually had more skill, or just used a better input device.
If you want dust to be a tiny little game that nobody plays, then cool, keep demanding that aim assist goes away cause "its a crutch." But honestly, I disregard anyone's opinion who thinks AA is a bad thing, as they are likely not a console FPS player and have no idea what they are talking about.
Complaining about AA is the excuse of folks who have a good gun game, but no other FPS skills so they assume the only reason that other guy killed them is because of AA (not because he has better awareness, better map knowledge, better team work, better builds, faster response time or anything else).
AA is a staple of console FPS games. DUST is not some unique pony when it comes to it. AA IS CONSOLE FPS. Its what makes playing FPS with a controller work. So quit being idiots. games don't take into accounts : - Fitting - Dodge - Passive Skills AA totally negates the "dodge" factor which is the main advantage of speed. It makes Rifles WAY too powerful against "shotgun" / Laser rifle / Mass driver etcetc..... AA should just be divided by 2 AND only appears when you're in Optimale Range. It would solve the RR problem in CQB or the CR problem that it kill at long range too easily. It doesn't negate dodge. It may lessen the ability to do so but it's still very viable. Speed tanking was just silly in the past, as we already discussed in this thread. I play scout and speed tanking s at a solid place. You have to be smart, can't jut stand there in the open making 3 people miss but you can still win 1on1s against assaults and logis by making them miss Not if the player is really good, but that's how it should be. I shouldn't be able to take a really good player head on as a scout. The fact you could do that before speaks to the ****** gameplay pre AA
If you are good at looking in general directions... dodging is mostly useless... with a ds3 and AA... This is nothing new since september, and echoed by almost every respected scout in the game since september ...
|
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
320
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 17:15:00 -
[133] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:ANON Cerberus wrote:Dudes -
Hip firing with AA off or on a KB/M setup = bullets spread out and fire in a rough area.
Hip firing with AA on (In its working rang which is what 40-50m?) = Bullets from hipfire DO NOT spread and in stead magentise to peoples faces, around corners and through walls.
Aim Assist is a bad thing that needs to be addressed but it is bullet magnetism that is REALLY foul play. By any other standards it is a damn semi aim bot. AA dosent change spread Also bullet magnatism is most likely just lag. Shooting around corners is definetly lag
AA or more to the point bullet magnetism does affect spread.
Pull out an AR or SMG with AA off. Shoot at an enemy and you will notice bullets will spray. As you fire longer the spray gets more intense. Ok.
Now using AA with an enemy in-front of you at 30-40 meters or what ever the AA range is, and you will notice the bullets do not spray any more, instead they are sucked towards the centre of the reticle.
I urge people to test this for themselves. The first time I realised this I was shocked. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
863
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 17:23:00 -
[134] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:Dexter307 wrote:ANON Cerberus wrote:Dudes -
Hip firing with AA off or on a KB/M setup = bullets spread out and fire in a rough area.
Hip firing with AA on (In its working rang which is what 40-50m?) = Bullets from hipfire DO NOT spread and in stead magentise to peoples faces, around corners and through walls.
Aim Assist is a bad thing that needs to be addressed but it is bullet magnetism that is REALLY foul play. By any other standards it is a damn semi aim bot. AA dosent change spread Also bullet magnatism is most likely just lag. Shooting around corners is definetly lag AA or more to the point bullet magnetism does affect spread. Pull out an AR or SMG with AA off. Shoot at an enemy and you will notice bullets will spray. As you fire longer the spray gets more intense. Ok. Now using AA with an enemy in-front of you at 30-40 meters or what ever the AA range is, and you will notice the bullets do not spray any more, instead they are sucked towards the centre of the reticle. I urge people to test this for themselves. The first time I realised this I was shocked. I have tried it, all I notice is sticky aim.
|
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
864
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 18:12:00 -
[135] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Dexter307 wrote:Bethhy wrote:Dexter307 wrote:ANON Cerberus wrote:Dudes -
Hip firing with AA off or on a KB/M setup = bullets spread out and fire in a rough area.
Hip firing with AA on (In its working rang which is what 40-50m?) = Bullets from hipfire DO NOT spread and in stead magentise to peoples faces, around corners and through walls.
Aim Assist is a bad thing that needs to be addressed but it is bullet magnetism that is REALLY foul play. By any other standards it is a damn semi aim bot. AA dosent change spread Also bullet magnatism is most likely just lag. Shooting around corners is definetly lag Because we where shooting around corners before? or did this "lag" magically show up? No idea about spread o.O Yes, even in beta people died around corners Very rarely and clear rubber banding... felt by both sides.. i can count maybe one hand the amount of times it happened... and i spent ridiculous amount of time on DUST then. Uprising launch? nope... never did happen.. until 1.4 Now it could happen to almost everyone at least once a week at least if not a couple times per day.... It happened to me More in beta, it dosent happen to me or when I kill people now |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
864
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 18:13:00 -
[136] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:This community needs to stop complaining about AA and stop including the removal of it as a serious discussion in balance issues.
This game was a trash FPS without Aim Assist. If Dust had launched with the gameplay we have right now, its reviews would have been a ton better. Every major console FPS, from Halo to BF to CoD has AA. Most of it a LOT stronger than Dust currently has.
AA is needed for console controls to feel tight. The only way this game survives and grows is with aim assist on and as strong as it currently is. This is doubley true when kb/m is an option and lack of aim assist will give every player doubt that the person that killed them actually had more skill, or just used a better input device.
If you want dust to be a tiny little game that nobody plays, then cool, keep demanding that aim assist goes away cause "its a crutch." But honestly, I disregard anyone's opinion who thinks AA is a bad thing, as they are likely not a console FPS player and have no idea what they are talking about.
Complaining about AA is the excuse of folks who have a good gun game, but no other FPS skills so they assume the only reason that other guy killed them is because of AA (not because he has better awareness, better map knowledge, better team work, better builds, faster response time or anything else).
AA is a staple of console FPS games. DUST is not some unique pony when it comes to it. AA IS CONSOLE FPS. Its what makes playing FPS with a controller work. So quit being idiots. games don't take into accounts : - Fitting - Dodge - Passive Skills AA totally negates the "dodge" factor which is the main advantage of speed. It makes Rifles WAY too powerful against "shotgun" / Laser rifle / Mass driver etcetc..... AA should just be divided by 2 AND only appears when you're in Optimale Range. It would solve the RR problem in CQB or the CR problem that it kill at long range too easily. It doesn't negate dodge. It may lessen the ability to do so but it's still very viable. Speed tanking was just silly in the past, as we already discussed in this thread. I play scout and speed tanking s at a solid place. You have to be smart, can't jut stand there in the open making 3 people miss but you can still win 1on1s against assaults and logis by making them miss Not if the player is really good, but that's how it should be. I shouldn't be able to take a really good player head on as a scout. The fact you could do that before speaks to the ****** gameplay pre AA If you are good at looking in general directions... dodging is mostly useless... with a ds3 and AA... This is nothing new since september, and echoed by almost every respected scout in the game since september ... My scout can dodge just fine
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
472
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 18:52:00 -
[137] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:KA24DERT wrote:If you want Aim Assist, you are playing the wrong genre.
GTFO. Lol what? What genre? Console FPS? Where all the top dogs have AA? Thanks for your silly elitist post, you are a delight.
You are indeed playing the wrong genre, and you are specifically playing the wrong game, all the while providing input to CCP to cheapen the experience of what is supposed to be a serious competitive shooter with lasting consequences.
It doesn't matter how many FPS games have AA, it's just a gimmick to attract people with no coordination, and the console shooters WITHOUT AA are a testament to the viability of the DS3 in an FPS.
Hell, the leaderboards during Chromosome were also a testament to the viability of the DS3 without aim assist...
It's not needed, it negates the advantage of speed, it negates trying to throw off your enemy's aim, it negates the time people put into their ability to aim, it negates the modules on your suit that aren't straight damage.
It's bad for the health of the game, and its only purpose is to pacify people who want to put zero effort into their gun game.
GTFO stands for Get The **** Out.
You and your kind are a cancer on this game. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
866
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 19:13:00 -
[138] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:KA24DERT wrote:If you want Aim Assist, you are playing the wrong genre.
GTFO. Lol what? What genre? Console FPS? Where all the top dogs have AA? Thanks for your silly elitist post, you are a delight. You are indeed playing the wrong genre, and you are specifically playing the wrong game, all the while providing input to CCP to cheapen the experience of what is supposed to be a serious competitive shooter with lasting consequences. It doesn't matter how many FPS games have AA, it's just a gimmick to attract people with no coordination, and the console shooters WITHOUT AA are a testament to the viability of the DS3 in an FPS. Hell, the leaderboards during Chromosome were also a testament to the viability of the DS3 without aim assist... It's not needed, it negates the advantage of speed, it negates trying to throw off your enemy's aim, it negates the time people put into their ability to aim, it negates the modules on your suit that aren't straight damage. It's bad for the health of the game, and its only purpose is to pacify people who want to put zero effort into their gun game. GTFO stands for Get The **** Out. You and your kind are a cancer on this game. Why don't YOU leave if you hate it so much Aiming was GARBAGE in uprising before we got aim assist Also, I have no problem evading bullets in my scout so no idea what your talking about there. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1125
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 21:59:00 -
[139] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:KA24DERT wrote:If you want Aim Assist, you are playing the wrong genre.
GTFO. Lol what? What genre? Console FPS? Where all the top dogs have AA? Thanks for your silly elitist post, you are a delight. You are indeed playing the wrong genre, and you are specifically playing the wrong game, all the while providing input to CCP to cheapen the experience of what is supposed to be a serious competitive shooter with lasting consequences. It doesn't matter how many FPS games have AA, it's just a gimmick to attract people with no coordination, and the console shooters WITHOUT AA are a testament to the viability of the DS3 in an FPS. Hell, the leaderboards during Chromosome were also a testament to the viability of the DS3 without aim assist... It's not needed, it negates the advantage of speed, it negates trying to throw off your enemy's aim, it negates the time people put into their ability to aim, it negates the modules on your suit that aren't straight damage. It's bad for the health of the game, and its only purpose is to pacify people who want to put zero effort into their gun game. GTFO stands for Get The **** Out. You and your kind are a cancer on this game. Why don't YOU leave if you hate it so much Aiming was GARBAGE in uprising before we got aim assist Also, I have no problem evading bullets in my scout so no idea what your talking about there.
Seems the only 5 or so scouts that don't have a problem are here..
Aiming wasn't garbage in 1.3? hit detection was.... aiming wasn't garbage in 1.2 either hit detection was... Aiming was no better or worse...
An aim assist doesn't magically show up and make a poorly done core game mechanic magically better.
The time in Uprising where Aiming was abysmal was it's launch. When CCP Wolfman reworked all the aiming system and threw out the old aiming system from Chromosome because he said it was making us loose 1-3 FPS in populated fire fights.
When Uprising Launched they put infinite Acceleration curves on the DS3 to try and attempt to fix the "clunky" complaints they got so much... Which basically would continue to accelerate the look speed to the point where it was crazy fast...
This also made massive issues for M/KB as it was an emulation of the ds3 at this time, creating no consistency in any control input be it DS3 or mouse and keyboard, no consistent movement yielded the same input results, so when stopping your aim at what would be conceived the right spot would end up short or overshooting constantly having to correct.... making aiming a near impossibility with consistency.
P.S. And to the point before... Show me all these chromosome video's of people hitting targets as they run behind walls and boxes.... and behind mountains and hills... jumping off ledges... It didn't happen if anything in Chromosome it was HARDER to hit targets partly by cover.... Now? There has been well over 10 video's showcasing what some are calling "Lagg" and the rest call "Homing bullets" or bullet magnetism... |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
480
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 00:50:00 -
[140] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:KA24DERT wrote:If you want Aim Assist, you are playing the wrong genre.
GTFO. Lol what? What genre? Console FPS? Where all the top dogs have AA? Thanks for your silly elitist post, you are a delight. You are indeed playing the wrong genre, and you are specifically playing the wrong game, all the while providing input to CCP to cheapen the experience of what is supposed to be a serious competitive shooter with lasting consequences. It doesn't matter how many FPS games have AA, it's just a gimmick to attract people with no coordination, and the console shooters WITHOUT AA are a testament to the viability of the DS3 in an FPS. Hell, the leaderboards during Chromosome were also a testament to the viability of the DS3 without aim assist... It's not needed, it negates the advantage of speed, it negates trying to throw off your enemy's aim, it negates the time people put into their ability to aim, it negates the modules on your suit that aren't straight damage. It's bad for the health of the game, and its only purpose is to pacify people who want to put zero effort into their gun game. GTFO stands for Get The **** Out. You and your kind are a cancer on this game. Awwww you are adorable. You have such bad opinions but you are so passionate about them it's delightful. Keep posting, it's cute.
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
477
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 03:51:00 -
[141] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:KA24DERT wrote:If you want Aim Assist, you are playing the wrong genre.
GTFO. Lol what? What genre? Console FPS? Where all the top dogs have AA? Thanks for your silly elitist post, you are a delight. You are indeed playing the wrong genre, and you are specifically playing the wrong game, all the while providing input to CCP to cheapen the experience of what is supposed to be a serious competitive shooter with lasting consequences. It doesn't matter how many FPS games have AA, it's just a gimmick to attract people with no coordination, and the console shooters WITHOUT AA are a testament to the viability of the DS3 in an FPS. Hell, the leaderboards during Chromosome were also a testament to the viability of the DS3 without aim assist... It's not needed, it negates the advantage of speed, it negates trying to throw off your enemy's aim, it negates the time people put into their ability to aim, it negates the modules on your suit that aren't straight damage. It's bad for the health of the game, and its only purpose is to pacify people who want to put zero effort into their gun game. GTFO stands for Get The **** Out. You and your kind are a cancer on this game. Awwww you are adorable. You have such bad opinions but you are so passionate about them it's delightful. Keep posting, it's cute.
I'm pretty damned cute, but I'm nowhere near as adorable as you.
Now let me put this little aim assist pacifier back in your mouth so you stop crying.
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
480
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 07:21:00 -
[142] - Quote
I just love the guy saying I'm playing the wrong game when he's the one wanting to change it. Precious. |
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
332
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 07:31:00 -
[143] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:I just love the guy saying I'm playing the wrong game when he's the one wanting to change it. Precious.
The game was changed in your favor and he wants it back.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
893
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 07:33:00 -
[144] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:I just love the guy saying I'm playing the wrong game when he's the one wanting to change it. Precious.
You mean the change(adding in AA) that happened after the game launched? We want the game to go back to being about skill, not "SPAM RR AND WIN EVERY FIGHT!"
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
480
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 15:38:00 -
[145] - Quote
AA was in from the start. It was disabled because it was bugged. It was always in the menus and was in the game in beta. At least try to be a little less wrong when you act so sure of yourselves. Was fun at first but now it's getting sad. And saying things like spam RR every fight shows me that I'm right wgen I say the folks who hate AA have little fps skills aside from decent aim. If you're good at fps AA shouldn't matter much cause the opponent shouldn't even be shooting at you.
Two people standing around straifing 1on1 may require decent aim but its the lowest form of complete fps skills. |
KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
478
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 16:47:00 -
[146] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote: ... Two people standing around straifing 1on1 may require decent aim but its the lowest form of complete fps skills.
It isn't the "lowest" form, it's the base mechanic around which the FPS is built. It's the First Person Shooter part. The part where you shoot.
You want to automate out the part where you shoot. In a shooter.
You can talk about maneuvering, map strategy, tactics, use of cover, and that's all great, but eventually you have to shoot someone. And you want the outcome of that engagement to be based on everything that happened before, and nothing that happens during.
Sadly, nothing is going to convince you that it's a bad idea because various game designers have trained you to believe that one doesn't have to be able to aim to win an engagement. Of course you're not going to go along with un-bribing yourself. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
870
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 17:10:00 -
[147] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:Bones McGavins wrote: ... Two people standing around straifing 1on1 may require decent aim but its the lowest form of complete fps skills.
It isn't the "lowest" form, it's the base mechanic around which the FPS is built. It's the First Person Shooter part. The part where you shoot. You want to automate out the part where you shoot. In a shooter. You can talk about maneuvering, map strategy, tactics, use of cover, and that's all great, but eventually you have to shoot someone. And you want the outcome of that engagement to be based on everything that happened before, and nothing that happens during. Sadly, nothing is going to convince you that it's a bad idea because various game designers have trained you to believe that one doesn't have to be able to aim to win an engagement. Of course you're not going to go along with un-bribing yourself. Untill controllers can be as accurate as a mouse AA will be in the game Thats why AA was made for consoles in the first place, to make them feel more like PC shooters |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1132
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 17:13:00 -
[148] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:I just love the guy saying I'm playing the wrong game when he's the one wanting to change it. Precious.
DUST 514 has existed longer without AA then it has with it...
But I guess that is a side point? |
KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
478
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 17:34:00 -
[149] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Bones McGavins wrote: ... Two people standing around straifing 1on1 may require decent aim but its the lowest form of complete fps skills.
It isn't the "lowest" form, it's the base mechanic around which the FPS is built. It's the First Person Shooter part. The part where you shoot. You want to automate out the part where you shoot. In a shooter. You can talk about maneuvering, map strategy, tactics, use of cover, and that's all great, but eventually you have to shoot someone. And you want the outcome of that engagement to be based on everything that happened before, and nothing that happens during. Sadly, nothing is going to convince you that it's a bad idea because various game designers have trained you to believe that one doesn't have to be able to aim to win an engagement. Of course you're not going to go along with un-bribing yourself. Untill controllers can be as accurate as a mouse AA will be in the game Thats why AA was made for consoles in the first place, to make them feel more like PC shooters
Disregarding the incredibly sad state of mouse support in this game:
The small advantage the mouse gives over the DS3 is NOT sufficient to give the DS3 an artificial enhancement which FUNDAMENTALLY ALTERS the nature of the ENTIRE game. The top players in this game were DS3 users during a time where the mouse support was MUCH smoother.
I don't buy the argument that mouse = god mode, because the evidence doesn't support it.
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
481
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 18:54:00 -
[150] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:I just love the guy saying I'm playing the wrong game when he's the one wanting to change it. Precious. DUST 514 has existed longer without AA then it has with it... But I guess that is a side point? Yes because the only reason it wasn't in Was because it had a bug, not because the devs didn't want it. It was always in the menus just not functional. And I'm not entirely sure of the timeline of when it was and was not implemented since it was always in the menu.
And again, the idea that aim assist is so powerful it auto determine a winner has been disproven and shot down. So ever other skill leading to and during an engagement excep aiming is untouched and the aim itself still allows for the better player to win AA just makes it feel smoother and more rewarding since it feels like your DS3 is more responsive.
The basis of the anti AA argument is exaggeration and lies. If you won most 1on1 engagements before AA you'll probably do so after. You losing likely isn't due to AA. If it makes you feel better to think the only reason you die was cause the other guy had AA thenby all means keep deluding yourself.
Like I said I was fine before AA was fixed and ill be fine if it goes away. But I'd rather the game have enough players so we can have decent matchmaking so when I go 20-1 every time I join a half way decent squad I don't feel like king of the kiddy pool. When I was good at halo it felt like it actually mattered cause more then 4000 people were on playing. If you want to keep looking down on AA and making fun of popular games as though somehow you are better than most people that's cool. I want the CoD crowd, I want the Halo crowd. I want dust to grow and prosper so we can see it become the gane we all think it can be. But at the base of that is fps mechanics that appeal to console fps players. |
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LUGMOS
YELLOW JESUS EXP FORCE
301
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 18:58:00 -
[151] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:stop complaining..... Some players run roles based on speed, stealth and manouvering... AA negates speed and manouvering. aslong as at one point that player is within X of your reticle, the gun will trackfire. This. Too much this.
The biggest threat to my scout is everything.
[Q] <-- Drink Moar Quafe
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DootDoot
Da Short Buss Legacy Rising
188
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 03:38:00 -
[152] - Quote
DootDoot wrote:Aim assist ruined all the work and effort I put into actually using the DS3 and getting better with it.I have tried to play DUST with AA off, but I'm not competitive doing so... People talk about BF4 and CoD Aim Assists and talk about how they are much stronger then DUST 514's.
There is a big difference everyone is missing in those games, No competitive circle in BF4 and CoD uses Aim assist because it hinders more then helps when you are actively good at aiming yourself. In those games with their uber strong AA, it is used almost non existent in competitive circles. In DUST? you HAVE to use it to be competitive otherwise your shots will blue shield and theirs will land..
Somewhere along the lines of introducing an Aim assist to help new players grasp aiming in DUST 514... We built an Aim bot that registers bullets better then someone without it.
And that is such an over powered feature to get over for anyone wanting to use their own ability in a FPS game.
I have been playing KZ:SF lately, the multi-player without Aim-Assist really is amazing.. I will try and log on and support dust a few times a week but until these core gameplay issues are resolved playing DUST 514 isn't enjoyable from the moment to moment anymore. I Hope these issues get addressed in 1.8.
In the mean time watch some old school DUST players from Chromosome enjoy the game aswell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEX0wZQbpc It's a good match. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1152
|
Posted - 2014.02.11 03:58:00 -
[153] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Bethhy wrote:Bones McGavins wrote:I just love the guy saying I'm playing the wrong game when he's the one wanting to change it. Precious. DUST 514 has existed longer without AA then it has with it... But I guess that is a side point? Yes because the only reason it wasn't in Was because it had a bug, not because the devs didn't want it. It was always in the menus just not functional. And I'm not entirely sure of the timeline of when it was and was not implemented since it was always in the menu. And again, the idea that aim assist is so powerful it auto determine a winner has been disproven and shot down. So ever other skill leading to and during an engagement excep aiming is untouched and the aim itself still allows for the better player to win AA just makes it feel smoother and more rewarding since it feels like your DS3 is more responsive. The basis of the anti AA argument is exaggeration and lies. If you won most 1on1 engagements before AA you'll probably do so after. You losing likely isn't due to AA. If it makes you feel better to think the only reason you die was cause the other guy had AA thenby all means keep deluding yourself. Like I said I was fine before AA was fixed and ill be fine if it goes away. But I'd rather the game have enough players so we can have decent matchmaking so when I go 20-1 every time I join a half way decent squad I don't feel like king of the kiddy pool. When I was good at halo it felt like it actually mattered cause more then 4000 people were on playing. If you want to keep looking down on AA and making fun of popular games as though somehow you are better than most people that's cool. I want the CoD crowd, I want the Halo crowd. I want dust to grow and prosper so we can see it become the gane we all think it can be. But at the base of that is fps mechanics that appeal to console fps players.
Not entirely what happened either with AA but what happens and happened and is... usually isn't part of the conversation about AA.
AA got removed and disabled twice during the beta process because of largely what we have now, Community HATING it... And the same giant community uproar about it ... Twice did it get implemented and twice was it disabled.. By community combined cheers... but this was the beta process so we had nothing but FPS or CCP product enthusiasts playing then so they actually cared about competitive play and improving the whole losing assets on each death aspect.
No fan of DUST 514 or CCP wants them to be limited on the customer base they can draw from. But we can't expect to market a complex FPS shooter to a CoD player by implementing AA. Teaching a player and having intuitive Battle Academy's that have missions where you have to drop a Nanohive and have 2 different people use it... drop an Uplink and have 2 people spawn on it.. Use a Militia tank... Use a Militia Dropship... BEFORE YOU EVEN LEAVE THE BATTLE ACADEMY...
People get to this game and run and gun for their 2-3 matches in the Academy, get booted and are put up against vet's playing for a year. Tanks and dropships everywhere, Lav's racing all over... Magic spawn pads that 8 heavies and logi's pop out of...
You can hand a newb An automated aiming system and magnetic bullets... the strongest gun and suit in the game they will get destroyed by the vet playing for a year every time. Aim assist wasn't a feature ever wanted or needed most people had issue with the horrific aiming Mechanics not the lack of aim assist.
CoD shipped 1 billion dollars worth of retail copies for CoD Ghost http://www.joystiq.com/2013/11/06/activision-call-of-duty-ghosts-has-shipped-1-billion-worth-in/ Really can DUST compete with the super aim AA fast killing compressed skill gap genre of FPS? because CCP with all it's combined might couldn't compete with that let alone DUST. We need to build a unique gamer experience not be emulating CoD and competing for their casual player base.
And in DUST where every death can cost Real assets, having a computer program assist with it's loss ruins the unique gamer experience. |
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