DUST Search - Stop complaining about Aim Assist

Mordecai Sanguine wrote:

Bones McGavins wrote:

This community needs to stop complaining about AA and stop including the removal of it as a serious discussion in balance issues.

This game was a trash FPS without Aim Assist. If Dust had launched with the gameplay we have right now, its reviews would have been a ton better. Every major console FPS, from Halo to BF to CoD has AA. Most of it a LOT stronger than Dust currently has.

AA is needed for console controls to feel tight. The only way this game survives and grows is with aim assist on and as strong as it currently is. This is doubley true when kb/m is an option and lack of aim assist will give every player doubt that the person that killed them actually had more skill, or just used a better input device.

If you want dust to be a tiny little game that nobody plays, then cool, keep demanding that aim assist goes away cause "its a crutch." But honestly, I disregard anyone's opinion who thinks AA is a bad thing, as they are likely not a console FPS player and have no idea what they are talking about.

Complaining about AA is the excuse of folks who have a good gun game, but no other FPS skills so they assume the only reason that other guy killed them is because of AA (not because he has better awareness, better map knowledge, better team work, better builds, faster response time or anything else).

AA is a staple of console FPS games. DUST is not some unique pony when it comes to it. AA IS CONSOLE FPS. Its what makes playing FPS with a controller work. So quit being idiots.

games don't take into accounts :
- Fitting
- Dodge
- Passive Skills

AA totally negates the "dodge" factor which is the main advantage of speed.
It makes Rifles WAY too powerful against "shotgun" / Laser rifle / Mass driver etcetc.....

AA should just be divided by 2 AND only appears when you're in Optimale Range.
It would solve the RR problem in CQB or the CR problem that it kill at long range too easily.


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Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 442	Posted - 2014.02.05 14:56:00 - [1] - Quote This community needs to stop complaining about AA and stop including the removal of it as a serious discussion in balance issues. This game was a trash FPS without Aim Assist. If Dust had launched with the gameplay we have right now, its reviews would have been a ton better. Every major console FPS, from Halo to BF to CoD has AA. Most of it a LOT stronger than Dust currently has. AA is needed for console controls to feel tight. The only way this game survives and grows is with aim assist on and as strong as it currently is. This is doubley true when kb/m is an option and lack of aim assist will give every player doubt that the person that killed them actually had more skill, or just used a better input device. If you want dust to be a tiny little game that nobody plays, then cool, keep demanding that aim assist goes away cause "its a crutch." But honestly, I disregard anyone's opinion who thinks AA is a bad thing, as they are likely not a console FPS player and have no idea what they are talking about. Complaining about AA is the excuse of folks who have a good gun game, but no other FPS skills so they assume the only reason that other guy killed them is because of AA (not because he has better awareness, better map knowledge, better team work, better builds, faster response time or anything else). AA is a staple of console FPS games. DUST is not some unique pony when it comes to it. AA IS CONSOLE FPS. Its what makes playing FPS with a controller work. So quit being idiots.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 443	Posted - 2014.02.05 15:03:00 - [2] - Quote You can play however you want. It IS playable with it off because a lot of Dust was balanced around folks being unable to shoot eachother due to lack of AA early on. But there is no reason to NOT have AA on. Honest question, why do you have it off now?
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 449	Posted - 2014.02.05 15:46:00 - [3] - Quote Aim asisst isnt a hack. Again, this is ignorant PC players who know nothing about console gaming trying to make a point. Look at Halo. That game is a sport. MLG pretty much became a thing BECAUSE of halo. It has a MASSIVE range of skill sets. Come play me in halo and see if you can even get a kill. Hint, you wont. But it has incredibly strong AA. More than DUST. AA doesnt negate the ability to aim. What it does do is make it so when you DO aim, your aim sticks a bit to compensate for you OVER adjusting your aim. It doesnt lock it on, it doesnt magically hover to the spot. you have to AIM first, it simply makes it a bit easier to mantain that aim and help you from over correcting due to the lack of fine input on a joystick. A player with better aim will still destroy a player with none. What it avoids is the stupid stuff you saw in dust where two players who knew were facing each other could dance around each other for an entire clip without landing more than a few bullets. AA does not completely negate speed or stealth. I will admit, it makes scouts a lot easier to kill once you know they are there. But if you get close enough, the stickyness of the aim assist wont matter at all. And speed is still incredibly useful for limitng the amount of time you are in the open and getting an enemies flank. I was pretty decent at this game before AA, im pretty decent at it now. The difference is, I see less stupid fights where nobody can shoot each other. And more importantly, when I show this game to my friends they dont hate it.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 449	Posted - 2014.02.05 15:49:00 - [4] - Quote Luna Angelo wrote: AA was not in FPS's and were not a staple of them until COD introduced it. Wrong. It was Halo. Theres some articles on Bungie and AA and how it made FPS gaming on the console a thing people actually found acceptible. Quote: Take it out and this game will be what it was supposed to be. No. This game was terrible without AA. It was a joke. Youd have a guy like Aldin just throwing down a proto rep nano and dancing on it while an entire squad shot at him because his proto gear and reps were so high people couldnt out dps his reps. Aldin is good, but the fact he could do that had little to do with HIS skill and more to do with how ****** the controls were.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 449	Posted - 2014.02.05 16:00:00 - [5] - Quote Quote: AA does negate the ability to aim because all I have to do is turn on the x-axis until I hit a red-dot and it doesn't matter anymore, it's time to mindlessly shoot. This is an exgeration to say the least. Strafing is still incredibly key. If AA was as strong as you say, it would be useless to do so. But its not, its 100% vital still. So tell me, if strafing is still key, then wouldnt better aim negate better strafing still?
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 449	Posted - 2014.02.05 16:21:00 - [6] - Quote i currently speed "tank". i cant stand in front of guys and make them miss, but i can use the environment to keep them from having stable LOS and make them miss and get good flanks. The scouts of old were silly. You had folks like annie oakley running out in the open into a squad and just shotgunning everyone without dying. Thats dumb. That is a bad game that allows that. Scouts should be ewar and flanking, not "dance in front of you". You may have a fondness for those things, but they are BAD gameplay. Im not saying lack of AA dust wasnt fun in its own tiny, niche way. But that game was dying, it was impossible to get most people to give it a chance because they couldnt hit people. Hell, even I pretty much adjusted to never fighting anyone who knew I was there because theyd just dodge me while someone else got a better angle and killed me or them. I was decent at playing the game this way, but it was silly. If you insist on AA removal. Cool, we can all be elitist kings of our tiny little castle that nobody cares about because most people think the game is a terrible joke.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 450	Posted - 2014.02.05 16:36:00 - [7] - Quote I think they were scouts before they were cal logi. I think cal logi only became the speed tanker FOTM at uprising? But yeah, im probably referring to uprising, cal logi speed tanking. Shotgunning in open fields, surrounded by reds. Running through groups of reds dropping RE. And if you think this is just in pubs, go watch some early PC vids. Youll see Team Player ringers versus Negative Feedback (so some of the best players in the game) and speed tankers just run through without getting touched. So, its not just "oh you people suck at aiming" stupid stuff that was laughable to most FPS players was happening at the highest levels.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 451	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:01:00 - [8] - Quote Yes, im the only one posting, but notice the folks liking the OP? So its not exactly an unshared viewpoint. I adapted to lack of AA. I was fine. My k/d hasnt changed much since AA. A meh game is 2 for me and better games go double digits. I run by myself or with a buddy so we are typically on the ass end of proto stompings and still hold our own. Not amazing, but definitely solid. This was how it was prior to AA and how it is post AA. I run speed/stealth adv min assault and adv gallante scout. I aimed fine in chromosome, I aimed fine in uprising. I mean, no, I didnt, but compared to most players, I was ok. It was still a joke compared to most FPS games. Im not defending AA because I need it. Im defending it because the gameplay was a disaster before it. I was fine in that disasterous gameplay, cause I like the ideas DUST has. But dust (in a gameplay, not in balance) is in a much better place for me to show a buddy and have him enjoy himself now than it was prior to AA. Look at the uprising control complaints. Those ALL died when AA came in. Now people blame AA for other things and dumbing down the game, but nobody is complaining that the hit detection or controls blow.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 451	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:06:00 - [9] - Quote Quote: If you're actually a skilled player, then you're still going to stomp an unskilled player using AA. This. AA doesnt magiclaly make a bad player kill a good one. It makes it so people arent emptying enitre clips at eachother standing in the open. Prior to AA my gallante scout could run into a group and murder everyone untouched. Prior to AA it was a legit tactic to not fire until the other player reloaded and then take them out uncontested while they reloaded. Prior to AA it was a legit tactic to just cook a nade 1on1 while dancing and then whip it at their feet. prior to AA it was a legit tactic to run through a blob of reds and drop RE. This has very little to do with me "gettin gud" as I was the one doing these things, not being the victim of them. It was just obvious that nobody could kill you (nobody, not even good players) with regular gun play in the time it took you to do these other "aim free" tactics.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 453	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:12:00 - [10] - Quote To opponents of AA, I honestly want you to go watch youtube videos of NF versus STB(team player ringers) and watch how ****** it is. These are the best players in the game, with the best gun game, and runnng through the enemy dropping RE is something that works. Note, im not saying they flanked and got them from behind undetected, they run straight at them, and through them, speed tanking the gunfire. Do you honestly think that was good gameplay? Please defend how even in the top levels, such a suicidal move could be successful? I get it, there is a wider gap between skilled and unskilled players without AA. But honestly, i think the bigger problem people have is... back when AA wasnt around, TTK was a ton higher. So the gap between proto and adv, or adv and std gear was a lot more meaningful. AA reduces tier advantage, and folks dont like that.

Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 453	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:15:00 - [11] - Quote Quote: No way i could do that in CS... CCP is making a game for lazy people. CS? PC gamer? Doesnt understand console FPS...noted. Everything I said was true. Your counter point had nothing to do with what I said. You ignored all the stupid things I could accomplish with AA off. And then brought up a PC shooter...from 20 years ago? Quote: you can still drop REs, BPO scout suit MLT kitkat/PD, RE's. No-one ever notices me until I have placed 3 remotes in their little clumps, I suicide or get killed, then watch the screen as Kill+50 and equipment destroyed +5 rollllllllllllls down my screen Yes, because you snuck up on them. The key here is "no-one ever notices me". Back before AA it didnt matter if they noticed you or not. You could run at them, by them, and drop REs on them, all while they shot at you.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 454	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:19:00 - [12] - Quote Its true though. It was a LOT harder for std gear to kill proto before AA. The TTK was a ton higher, so the extra ehp or dps or reps from proto gear had a much bigger role. Not saying thats the only reason people want AA off. But when people refer to how "great" it was before... I cant help but think that may be a cause.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 454	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:26:00 - [13] - Quote I know proto is supposed to be better. Im just saying the gap was wider with AA off. Ill also say, Luna you seem reasonable. Everyone but a select few obvious PC elitists are so. I respect that. I can even see how the old gameplay could be considered more fun. It was defnitely more unique. But for every console FPS player I showed dust to, it was a major turn off. And i think folks (like a certain panther) VASTLY overstate the impact AA has on narrowing the skill gap. And have a fundemental misunderstanding of what AA does and does not do. And if you ever want dust to be more than a niche game, AA is needed.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 456	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:30:00 - [14] - Quote Betthy...accoridng to your post...what FPS game ISNT "paint by numbers for shooters?" All the popular, highly reviewed games have aim assist a lot stronger than dust. And you are lying to yourself if you think AA removes the need for skill. Thats the argument that makes anti-AA people look like they want to blame AA for their loss instead of player skill. The player still needs to aim on you, the player still needs to react quicker. All AA does it slow down their aim as they pass over you and make it a bit sticky to make it easier to hold the aim once they have done so. It does not aim for them. They have to aim first. So someone with a quicker draw and better ability to aim on a target will still win. The only skill being mitigated a bit is the ability to hold aim on a moving target. But in the wide range of skills needed for an FPS game, that isnt as game changing as youd like to suggest.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 456	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:54:00 - [15] - Quote this horrible band aid is what makes console FPS games popular. There isnt one popular console FPS game without it. I havent checked out the sales of KZ4, but its also the ONLY next gen FPS game. So I wager a lot of folks are trying ot specifically for that. Coming from dust, the aim in that game seemed fine though. So im shocked to find out it has no AA. But it also has low TTK, so its not like you need to hit someone with 20-30 rounds to kill them like you do in dust.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 456	Posted - 2014.02.05 17:56:00 - [16] - Quote Quote: I also think not aiming directly on someone yet killing the target are good aiming mechanics. This happened before AA as well. Its hard to know what is bullet magnetism and what is poor hit detection/lag. I agree, im not a fan of bullet magnetism as its too...random. When will my bullet hit, when wont it? Sticky aim is a pretty stable mechanic that isnt random.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 461	Posted - 2014.02.05 21:21:00 - [17] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: I miss the days when losing to someone in a firefight meant they had better aim and hit you in the face faster than you could chew through them. now it just means they have AA and a Fail Rifle. Remove autoaim. The game was more fun, more people played it, and it made dust actually feel like a hardcore shooter that relied on your skills. see, this right here? This is someone who is bad at DUST (or isnt as good as they think they are) trying to rationalize why they arent doing better. I just went 25-1 as a adv gallante scout with like 300 hp using a std cbr (not even speed tanked, ewar fit). Folks couldnt hit me. Danced my way to winning a number of 2on1s. Why didnt auto aim lock on me and instantly kill me?
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 461	Posted - 2014.02.05 21:33:00 - [18] - Quote Danced my way to winning a number of 2on1s. bolded because you must have missed it...
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 461	Posted - 2014.02.05 23:18:00 - [19] - Quote Wait so now you're saying only valid test for AA is to play top talent? Shouldn't they be abl to hit me regardless of AA ? I thought the entire point was AA makes it so aiming skill doesn't matter? The test to prove that wrong is to stomp noobs. Clearly skilled players who are better than me will stop me from killing then. But that has zero to do with AA and more to do with them being better than me
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 476	Posted - 2014.02.07 16:10:00 - [20] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: If you want Aim Assist, you are playing the wrong genre. GTFO. Lol what? What genre? Console FPS? Where all the top dogs have AA? Thanks for your silly elitist post, you are a delight.

Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 476	Posted - 2014.02.07 16:16:00 - [21] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: This community needs to stop complaining about AA and stop including the removal of it as a serious discussion in balance issues. This game was a trash FPS without Aim Assist. If Dust had launched with the gameplay we have right now, its reviews would have been a ton better. Every major console FPS, from Halo to BF to CoD has AA. Most of it a LOT stronger than Dust currently has. AA is needed for console controls to feel tight. The only way this game survives and grows is with aim assist on and as strong as it currently is. This is doubley true when kb/m is an option and lack of aim assist will give every player doubt that the person that killed them actually had more skill, or just used a better input device. If you want dust to be a tiny little game that nobody plays, then cool, keep demanding that aim assist goes away cause "its a crutch." But honestly, I disregard anyone's opinion who thinks AA is a bad thing, as they are likely not a console FPS player and have no idea what they are talking about. Complaining about AA is the excuse of folks who have a good gun game, but no other FPS skills so they assume the only reason that other guy killed them is because of AA (not because he has better awareness, better map knowledge, better team work, better builds, faster response time or anything else). AA is a staple of console FPS games. DUST is not some unique pony when it comes to it. AA IS CONSOLE FPS. Its what makes playing FPS with a controller work. So quit being idiots. games don't take into accounts : - Fitting - Dodge - Passive Skills AA totally negates the "dodge" factor which is the main advantage of speed. It makes Rifles WAY too powerful against "shotgun" / Laser rifle / Mass driver etcetc..... AA should just be divided by 2 AND only appears when you're in Optimale Range. It would solve the RR problem in CQB or the CR problem that it kill at long range too easily. It doesn't negate dodge. It may lessen the ability to do so but it's still very viable. Speed tanking was just silly in the past, as we already discussed in this thread. I play scout and speed tanking s at a solid place. You have to be smart, can't jut stand there in the open making 3 people miss but you can still win 1on1s against assaults and logis by making them miss Not if the player is really good, but that's how it should be. I shouldn't be able to take a really good player head on as a scout. The fact you could do that before speaks to the ****** gameplay pre AA
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 480	Posted - 2014.02.08 00:50:00 - [22] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: KA24DERT wrote: If you want Aim Assist, you are playing the wrong genre. GTFO. Lol what? What genre? Console FPS? Where all the top dogs have AA? Thanks for your silly elitist post, you are a delight. You are indeed playing the wrong genre, and you are specifically playing the wrong game, all the while providing input to CCP to cheapen the experience of what is supposed to be a serious competitive shooter with lasting consequences. It doesn't matter how many FPS games have AA, it's just a gimmick to attract people with no coordination, and the console shooters WITHOUT AA are a testament to the viability of the DS3 in an FPS. Hell, the leaderboards during Chromosome were also a testament to the viability of the DS3 without aim assist... It's not needed, it negates the advantage of speed, it negates trying to throw off your enemy's aim, it negates the time people put into their ability to aim, it negates the modules on your suit that aren't straight damage. It's bad for the health of the game, and its only purpose is to pacify people who want to put zero effort into their gun game. GTFO stands for Get The **** Out. You and your kind are a cancer on this game. Awwww you are adorable. You have such bad opinions but you are so passionate about them it's delightful. Keep posting, it's cute.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 480	Posted - 2014.02.08 07:21:00 - [23] - Quote I just love the guy saying I'm playing the wrong game when he's the one wanting to change it. Precious.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 480	Posted - 2014.02.08 15:38:00 - [24] - Quote AA was in from the start. It was disabled because it was bugged. It was always in the menus and was in the game in beta. At least try to be a little less wrong when you act so sure of yourselves. Was fun at first but now it's getting sad. And saying things like spam RR every fight shows me that I'm right wgen I say the folks who hate AA have little fps skills aside from decent aim. If you're good at fps AA shouldn't matter much cause the opponent shouldn't even be shooting at you. Two people standing around straifing 1on1 may require decent aim but its the lowest form of complete fps skills.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 481	Posted - 2014.02.08 18:54:00 - [25] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: I just love the guy saying I'm playing the wrong game when he's the one wanting to change it. Precious. DUST 514 has existed longer without AA then it has with it... But I guess that is a side point? Yes because the only reason it wasn't in Was because it had a bug, not because the devs didn't want it. It was always in the menus just not functional. And I'm not entirely sure of the timeline of when it was and was not implemented since it was always in the menu. And again, the idea that aim assist is so powerful it auto determine a winner has been disproven and shot down. So ever other skill leading to and during an engagement excep aiming is untouched and the aim itself still allows for the better player to win AA just makes it feel smoother and more rewarding since it feels like your DS3 is more responsive. The basis of the anti AA argument is exaggeration and lies. If you won most 1on1 engagements before AA you'll probably do so after. You losing likely isn't due to AA. If it makes you feel better to think the only reason you die was cause the other guy had AA thenby all means keep deluding yourself. Like I said I was fine before AA was fixed and ill be fine if it goes away. But I'd rather the game have enough players so we can have decent matchmaking so when I go 20-1 every time I join a half way decent squad I don't feel like king of the kiddy pool. When I was good at halo it felt like it actually mattered cause more then 4000 people were on playing. If you want to keep looking down on AA and making fun of popular games as though somehow you are better than most people that's cool. I want the CoD crowd, I want the Halo crowd. I want dust to grow and prosper so we can see it become the gane we all think it can be. But at the base of that is fps mechanics that appeal to console fps players.