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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
442
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Posted - 2014.02.05 14:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
This community needs to stop complaining about AA and stop including the removal of it as a serious discussion in balance issues.
This game was a trash FPS without Aim Assist. If Dust had launched with the gameplay we have right now, its reviews would have been a ton better. Every major console FPS, from Halo to BF to CoD has AA. Most of it a LOT stronger than Dust currently has.
AA is needed for console controls to feel tight. The only way this game survives and grows is with aim assist on and as strong as it currently is. This is doubley true when kb/m is an option and lack of aim assist will give every player doubt that the person that killed them actually had more skill, or just used a better input device.
If you want dust to be a tiny little game that nobody plays, then cool, keep demanding that aim assist goes away cause "its a crutch." But honestly, I disregard anyone's opinion who thinks AA is a bad thing, as they are likely not a console FPS player and have no idea what they are talking about.
Complaining about AA is the excuse of folks who have a good gun game, but no other FPS skills so they assume the only reason that other guy killed them is because of AA (not because he has better awareness, better map knowledge, better team work, better builds, faster response time or anything else).
AA is a staple of console FPS games. DUST is not some unique pony when it comes to it. AA IS CONSOLE FPS. Its what makes playing FPS with a controller work. So quit being idiots. |
ResistanceGTA
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
164
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Posted - 2014.02.05 14:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
So... I should turn AA on?
P.A.I.R.- Pilot Against Invisible RDVs.
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
443
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
You can play however you want. It IS playable with it off because a lot of Dust was balanced around folks being unable to shoot eachother due to lack of AA early on. But there is no reason to NOT have AA on. Honest question, why do you have it off now? |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1617
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:This community needs to stop complaining about AA and stop including the removal of it as a serious discussion in balance issues.
This game was a trash FPS without Aim Assist. If Dust had launched with the gameplay we have right now, its reviews would have been a ton better. Every major console FPS, from Halo to BF to CoD has AA. Most of it a LOT stronger than Dust currently has.
AA is needed for console controls to feel tight. The only way this game survives and grows is with aim assist on and as strong as it currently is. This is doubley true when kb/m is an option and lack of aim assist will give every player doubt that the person that killed them actually had more skill, or just used a better input device.
If you want dust to be a tiny little game that nobody plays, then cool, keep demanding that aim assist goes away cause "its a crutch." But honestly, I disregard anyone's opinion who thinks AA is a bad thing, as they are likely not a console FPS player and have no idea what they are talking about.
Complaining about AA is the excuse of folks who have a good gun game, but no other FPS skills so they assume the only reason that other guy killed them is because of AA (not because he has better awareness, better map knowledge, better team work, better builds, faster response time or anything else).
AA is a staple of console FPS games. DUST is not some unique pony when it comes to it. AA IS CONSOLE FPS. Its what makes playing FPS with a controller work. So quit being idiots.
Well you nailed it right there. I love KZ, play it everyday. But I would say that no AA has never once has been a benefit to the game as for as gaining or keeping players. They play KZ for what it is, or don't play it for what it is, But AA is not a pro for the reasons.
AA in consoles in many FPS games, now and those coming down the pike are a main stay. complaining about it, is like complaining about getting snow when you live in NY. (United States) |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4445
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
If you need Aim Assist then please STFU and Get Good.
[/thread]
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1333
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Go biomass
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
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Sgt Buttscratch
1442
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
stop complaining..... Some players run roles based on speed, stealth and manouvering... AA negates speed and manouvering. aslong as at one point that player is within X of your reticle, the gun will trackfire.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1617
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tho I should have added it my post it should always be a option. I think that would have helped with KZ. Those that wanted it on could have turned it on. and those who didn't would leave it off. Better option then just giving up on the game.
KZ is FPS test of skill. Way too many .40 and .50 players. You get to see who really got use to AA way too much. lol But I think it's awesome for those who stick with it, and then that .50 turns to 1.00.
K/d may not be everything. but .50k/d your pretty much useless in objective and TDM. |
CRYPT3C W0LF
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
328
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Unfortunately, aim assist will continue to be a part of practically EVERY Shooter for a console. Although I wouldn't mind if they toned down AA to half its strength now. I get that AA negates and diminishes Speed tanking, and a variety of other tactics, but honestly, they only added Aim assist to improve the fluency of the game, as much as it has unintentionally effected other aspects
Ahhhh....
CPM? Nononono
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Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
313
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
If you need AA to aim, you must have no coordination on your thumbs. Just because every console FPS has it doesn't mean news one should have it too. MAG didn't have a real aim-assist and it was great. Dumbasses couldn't shoot for their life and skilled players actually did good.
In fact, if I had a PS4, I probably buy the new Killzone because of the lack of AA.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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Knight Solitaire
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Remove AA from Low-Sec battles, keep the carebear **** for High-Sec.
/Done
Definitely not who you think I am.
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Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
313
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Surt gods end wrote:Tho I should have added it my post it should always be a option.
No! It should never be an option.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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HYENAKILLER X
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
551
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
I stopped using aim assist when I got the combat rifle.
In my defense this is my first multiplayer fps on console.
I dont judge others for using it because it really is fun kicking ass. I would make it almost manditory for all fps to have the option.
But when debates about who is better start rolling around people using aim assist dont deserve to be in those descussions as runners.
No matter what anyone says or does, this is a team game. Have fun, contribute and get what you want from it.
Tanks are for pusssies.
You are welcome for my leadership.
Proven Aggressive Type
I have spoken.
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Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1333
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Go biomass
"Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
Eve toon: Drake Doe, professional hero tackler, full time pretzel boy
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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
583
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't get why if AA is going to be a thing, then why not turn it on for all weapons? Why are weapons like sniper rifle, shotguns, plasma cannon, forge guns all without AA?
AA is a huge reason rifles are the only weapons in the game.
If we have come to the conclusion that AA is necessary then stop treating half the weapons as 2nd class weapons. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1617
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Marlin Kirby wrote:Surt gods end wrote:Tho I should have added it my post it should always be a option. No! It should never be an option.
Here is the thing... there are players out there who know NOT what a Rig is except to say "a truck" so for them they need AA. I play both fps on my rig and console. And tho my preference is no aa, but as a great fps player I SEE NO CON in AA being in.
If your a great fps player then AA is HELPING YOU OUT EVEN MORE. lol And as a stealth scout, AA is negated to begin with. Meaning as in your dead before you know what hit you.
You don't drum the PC FPS rules on consoles. I play my fps on consoles are the DS3. On my rig the kb/m. Going full nerd with Kb/m on a console is not me. feels weird man.
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Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
1188
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
HAha.. lol.. sorry i have to post on this...
Still defending the aim assist ? and then worrying about Dust being ported to the PC because people "May" cheat with things like "aimbots" ?
You don't like hacking.. but you are defending a hack.... this community still funny as ever i see. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1617
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:HAha.. lol.. sorry i have to post on this... Still defending the aim assist ? and then worrying about Dust being ported to the PC because people "May" cheat with things like "aimbots" ? You don't like hacking.. but you are defending a hack.... this community still funny as ever i see.
That also is weird. lol Tho I'll like to see who play dust on PC? Home of FPS. |
tastzlike chicken
ROGUE SPADES
130
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
AA in this game needs to be minimized to an anorexic shadow of what it is. Or kill it entirely. It clouds many discussions of weapon balance. |
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
314
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Surt gods end wrote:Marlin Kirby wrote:Surt gods end wrote:Tho I should have added it my post it should always be a option. No! It should never be an option. Here is the thing... there are players out there who know NOT what a Rig is except to say "a truck" so for them they need AA. I play both fps on my rig and console. And tho my preference is no aa, but as a great fps player I SEE NO CON in AA being in. If your a great fps player then AA is HELPING YOU OUT EVEN MORE. lol And as a stealth scout, AA is negated to begin with. Meaning as in your dead before you know what hit you.
Aim-assist is implemented into consoles narrows the gap between players. AA may make me better, but AA makes crappy players more better (shut up, it makes sense in my head). I may still be better at a game than dunmthumbs over there, but the gap is reduced to where my skill matters less.
Surt gods end wrote: You don't drum the PC FPS rules on consoles. I play my fps on consoles are the DS3. On my rig the kb/m. Going full nerd with Kb/m on a console is not me. feels weird man.
I won't. I happen to think PC shooters are also bullshit because they're point and click adventures where you character has an unreal reaction time (tapping "A" and "D" repetitively)
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
654
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Speed tanking is negated with AA. Take it out and we'll see the return of Scouts that can actually survive if they are seen.
I use AA because it's there. I don't need it, my gun game is good enough without it. There was a really good FPS on PS2, Black. No AA AT ALL and it was the best game on PS2, with few exceptions. AA is not required in FPS's, it's just that COD fans got so used to it that they suck without it.
I play all sorts of games, adventure, action, action-adventure, RPG's and yes, even FPS's. AA was not in FPS's and were not a staple of them until COD introduced it. Take it out and this game will be what it was supposed to be.
And one last thing: To those who say that it makes it fair to the slightly lesser skilled players, CCP has stated "PvP is inherently unbalanced".
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
449
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aim asisst isnt a hack. Again, this is ignorant PC players who know nothing about console gaming trying to make a point.
Look at Halo. That game is a sport. MLG pretty much became a thing BECAUSE of halo. It has a MASSIVE range of skill sets. Come play me in halo and see if you can even get a kill.
Hint, you wont.
But it has incredibly strong AA. More than DUST.
AA doesnt negate the ability to aim. What it does do is make it so when you DO aim, your aim sticks a bit to compensate for you OVER adjusting your aim. It doesnt lock it on, it doesnt magically hover to the spot. you have to AIM first, it simply makes it a bit easier to mantain that aim and help you from over correcting due to the lack of fine input on a joystick.
A player with better aim will still destroy a player with none. What it avoids is the stupid stuff you saw in dust where two players who knew were facing each other could dance around each other for an entire clip without landing more than a few bullets.
AA does not completely negate speed or stealth. I will admit, it makes scouts a lot easier to kill once you know they are there. But if you get close enough, the stickyness of the aim assist wont matter at all. And speed is still incredibly useful for limitng the amount of time you are in the open and getting an enemies flank.
I was pretty decent at this game before AA, im pretty decent at it now. The difference is, I see less stupid fights where nobody can shoot each other. And more importantly, when I show this game to my friends they dont hate it. |
Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
449
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 15:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote: AA was not in FPS's and were not a staple of them until COD introduced it.
Wrong. It was Halo. Theres some articles on Bungie and AA and how it made FPS gaming on the console a thing people actually found acceptible.
Quote: Take it out and this game will be what it was supposed to be.
No. This game was terrible without AA. It was a joke. Youd have a guy like Aldin just throwing down a proto rep nano and dancing on it while an entire squad shot at him because his proto gear and reps were so high people couldnt out dps his reps. Aldin is good, but the fact he could do that had little to do with HIS skill and more to do with how ****** the controls were. |
Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
314
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Aim asisst isnt a hack. Again, this is ignorant PC players who know nothing about console gaming trying to make a point.
Look at Halo. That game is a sport. MLG pretty much became a thing BECAUSE of halo. It has a MASSIVE range of skill sets. Come play me in halo and see if you can even get a kill.
Hint, you wont.
But it has incredibly strong AA. More than DUST.
AA doesnt negate the ability to aim. What it does do is make it so when you DO aim, your aim sticks a bit to compensate for you OVER adjusting your aim. It doesnt lock it on, it doesnt magically hover to the spot. you have to AIM first, it simply makes it a bit easier to mantain that aim and help you from over correcting due to the lack of fine input on a joystick.
A player with better aim will still destroy a player with none. What it avoids is the stupid stuff you saw in dust where two players who knew were facing each other could dance around each other for an entire clip without landing more than a few bullets.
AA does not completely negate speed or stealth. I will admit, it makes scouts a lot easier to kill once you know they are there. But if you get close enough, the stickyness of the aim assist wont matter at all. And speed is still incredibly useful for limitng the amount of time you are in the open and getting an enemies flank.
I was pretty decent at this game before AA, im pretty decent at it now. The difference is, I see less stupid fights where nobody can shoot each other. And more importantly, when I show this game to my friends they dont hate it.
HALO being a sport means nothing. CoD is a sport too you know and **** that game.
AA does negate the ability to aim because all I have to do is turn on the x-axis until I hit a red-dot and it doesn't matter anymore, it's time to mindlessly shoot.
And of course there's still skill, there's just less of it.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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Marlin Kirby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
314
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Posted - 2014.02.05 15:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote: No. This game was terrible without AA. It was a joke. Youd have a guy like Aldin just throwing down a proto rep nano and dancing on it while an entire squad shot at him because his proto gear and reps were so high people couldnt out dps his reps. Aldin is good, but the fact he could do that had little to do with HIS skill and more to do with how ****** the controls were.
No, that shows that the nanohive is broken.
The not Logic Bomb!
-->We need better comms!<--
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Bones McGavins
TacoCat Industries
449
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Posted - 2014.02.05 16:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quote:AA does negate the ability to aim because all I have to do is turn on the x-axis until I hit a red-dot and it doesn't matter anymore, it's time to mindlessly shoot.
This is an exgeration to say the least. Strafing is still incredibly key. If AA was as strong as you say, it would be useless to do so. But its not, its 100% vital still. So tell me, if strafing is still key, then wouldnt better aim negate better strafing still? |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1081
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:This community needs to stop complaining about AA and stop including the removal of it as a serious discussion in balance issues.
This game was a trash FPS without Aim Assist. If Dust had launched with the gameplay we have right now, its reviews would have been a ton better. Every major console FPS, from Halo to BF to CoD has AA. Most of it a LOT stronger than Dust currently has.
Umm you do realise that EVERY review DUST has recieved on Uprising 1.0 launch and then on the 1.6(for some reviews and 1.7 for otherss... They have LOST significant review score...
DUST is horrific in reviews right now... No console shooter really needs Aim assist. A Majority of all FPS's have never had AA.
Kill Zone : Shadow Fall.. No Aim assist and you can see nothing but DUST Chromosome player names all day in multiplayer...
Soccom 4 : No Aim assist.
MAG : No Aim Assist.
CS:GO No Aim assist and full raw input mouse and keyboard on both Ps3 and 360..
Aim assist has fundamentally changed DUST for the worse... Where Health points and shots that land don;t matter much... Where the speed difference from Jim to Bob mean s nothing my computer program tracks them indiscriminately and even if im off i have magnetic bullets.
In CoD where you can die in a headshot... Deaths don't matter at all other then a mark on your "Epeen" Then sure Aim assist makes sense in those quick react with minimal consequences kinda games.
Dust every death costs you assets, every player has a slight difference in the speed they move... Health points aren't the same value for everyone... then we can start looking at 16 vs 16 and 16 aim assists.... no one would be able to cross open spaces...
It's just a feature that has hurt DUST more then it has helped a few bullets that weren't registering before. And going through past youtube vid's is proof enough for anyone that has been around DUST for a while. |
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
655
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Posted - 2014.02.05 16:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Luna Angelo wrote: AA was not in FPS's and were not a staple of them until COD introduced it. Wrong. It was Halo. Theres some articles on Bungie and AA and how it made FPS gaming on the console a thing people actually found acceptible. Quote: Take it out and this game will be what it was supposed to be.
No. This game was terrible without AA. It was a joke. Youd have a guy like Aldin just throwing down a proto rep nano and dancing on it while an entire squad shot at him because his proto gear and reps were so high people couldnt out dps his reps. Aldin is good, but the fact he could do that had little to do with HIS skill and more to do with how ****** the controls were. Again, once they introduce ways to reduce Proto Stomping, why would THAT matter? You could do the same with 3 logi's holding rep tools, no one complains about that.
My other point still stands, it didn't exist till that point, and COD only exasperated it with yearly releases. Black did not have it and it was one of the best games out there. Yes, at that time I sucked at it, but I worked hard and got so much better. And certain weapons on this game are AA disabled. SR, SG, MD, etc. do NOT have it and, other than the MD and a few others, they kill FASTER than the AR's. SR's in the right hands can 1, 2, or 3-shot ANYTHING. SG's are beastly at CQC, as they should be. My point is, you don't NEED AA for this game to work, now that hit detection has been (somewhat) fixed. It negates Speedy Scouts, because it DOES follow. I know, as I said, I use it.
I am not a PC gamer by any stretch of the imagination, I suck at KB/M games. I play console games almost exclusively. I play THIS GAME almost exclusively. And yes, I was here in Chromosome, with the immortal heavies and such. Oh... wait... they weren't immortal. I still killed killed them, with STD gear, it just took more skill.
Not saying that anyone who uses AA sucks, because I use it, and that would be me calling myself sucky. I mean that it doesn't need to be here, or not as strong as it is. Weaken it by 50-60% and Speed tanking will be back. Or remove it outright.
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
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Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
1617
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Posted - 2014.02.05 16:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote:Speed tanking is negated with AA. Take it out and we'll see the return of Scouts that can actually survive if they are seen.
I use AA because it's there. I don't need it, my gun game is good enough without it. There was a really good FPS on PS2, Black. No AA AT ALL and it was the best game on PS2, with few exceptions. AA is not required in FPS's, it's just that COD fans got so used to it that they suck without it.
I play all sorts of games, adventure, action, action-adventure, RPG's and yes, even FPS's. AA was not in FPS's and were not a staple of them until COD introduced it. Take it out and this game will be what it was supposed to be.
And one last thing: To those who say that it makes it fair to the slightly lesser skilled players, CCP has stated "PvP is inherently unbalanced".
I love Black too, but if I remember it wasn't a multiplayer game. Only SP. So we can't say how it would have been without AA.
KZ on the other hand I think it's a awesome game. and has no AA. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1081
|
Posted - 2014.02.05 16:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bones McGavins wrote:Quote:AA does negate the ability to aim because all I have to do is turn on the x-axis until I hit a red-dot and it doesn't matter anymore, it's time to mindlessly shoot. This is an exgeration to say the least. Strafing is still incredibly key. If AA was as strong as you say, it would be useless to do so. But its not, its 100% vital still. So tell me, if strafing is still key, then wouldnt better aim negate better strafing still?
Actually standing still will let you dodge most players fire better then trying to move...
When you aren't moving usually they are giving to much input and having to aim for themselfs and usually miss..
And it isn't even close to an exaggeration it is proven in over 10 youtube video's...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFqlnXZU6bw Example.
Now seriously is that an essential lesson that all DUST merc's should learn? Because if it is, I choose wrong with investing any time into this game. |
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