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Seeth Mensch
highland marines
62
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Posted - 2013.12.04 18:34:00 -
[31] - Quote
vilstan wrote:Thanks for the answers guys. Good to know salvage will just happen and I'm not missing any by not standing over enemy corpses holding down O or anything like that.
I will have to look at Dust University. Especially if it's the same group, EVE University guys were good folks.
I have one other question on turrets...do they shoot in their own? I once hacked a missile turret and it immediately started shooting at...something. Maybe the MCC? And how do you kill people in them? (Or kill them directly?) Sometimes I see one turret kill another turret, and I don't know if they respawn or have to be built or what. Other times I am in a turret and I suddenly wind up dead. Not sure if I got hacked out or maybe shot by a sniper or something else.
I agree with most o fyour posts. This game is very unfriendly to newcomers. There's a lot of people that will spout glib one liners like "Welcome blah blah" but the big picture is people have to have fun playing.
Unlike a lot of FPS's, this game punishes you pretty hard. I started having fun again around 6-7 million SP, and stuck it out because I saw (and still see) a lot of cool things that don't happen in other FPS's. But if nobody sticks around long enough to find out about that coolness....
Anyway, re: Turrets: You don't get into them, you operate a..um..console (I guess), from where you hacked it. But you are still counted as being in it. So, if the turret blows up while you're in it, you die. But you can also be sniped because you are just standing there next to it! So, don't operate the turret too long, or at all if they are coming at you and you don't see them.
Please stick with it, I'd love to run with you some time. Join a good channel, and play around with some Corps until you find a good one. Teammates can help explain things that there are no instructions on. You can find me pretty routinely on the hborn channel.
See you out there!
Hi! Gosh, I've missed you...with every bullet, plasma shot, rail gun, and missile.
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Templar 514
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
63
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 18:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
I'm going to at least try to address all of your points. I will firstly note that I will snip the text because yes, character limits are somewhat small.
vilstan wrote:*NPE concerns, Spawn camping, Orbital Strikes*
So first off, NPE is widely acknowledged as lacking. Half of this is due to the fact that the Battle Academy, where all new players start, is very short-lived. The other half is actually because DUST is currently suffering through low player counts, which causes the matchmaking to be slightly broken. Scanning mechanics are somewhat convoluted, but also not super-important; the main issue is that we don't actually have a displayed scan profile stat.
As far as spawn camping.... MCC/ground spawns at the start of a Skirmish match are indeed "safe zone" spawns. Everything else is somewhat fair game. A flaw is that Skirmish allows objective spawning, which devalues deployable and capturable spawn points. The other thing is that mostly spawn camping is at CRUs or drop uplinks; a massive improvement was made in that you could see if an enemy was highlighted on the map around a CRU/link, so that would hopefully tell you "DANGER WILL ROBINSON", and you wouldn't spawn there.
Unfortunately, lots of new DUST players seem to be terminally stupid CoD-kids.
Regarding Orbital Strikes, the main issue I see is that strikes are linked to squad warpoint totals, so squads that dominate tend to get multiple strikes and then kill all the things. For the record, most proper buildings will protect you from a strike, so long as you stay away from doorways/windows. There are stories of people riding out strikes by wedging themselves into corners, though this is rare.
vilstan wrote:*Matchmaking, Victory Conditions, and Impact of War*
As far as Matchmaking, it's widely acknowledged to be broken. The problem is several-fold:
1. We lack the player counts for matchmaking to function properly.
2a. MM seems to decide it's a brilliant idea to stack multiple squads on the same side.
2b. Either that, or tryhard dorks decide to "Que-sync" multiple squads into the same match. Same result though.
Ultimately, we either need to make public matches a no-squad mode, or change MM to put squads on the same side (even if people try to Q-sync).
With regards to your victory condition complain, what you experienced is MCC-to-MCC damage. It's a mechanic that was implemented to help stalemates end faster instead of dragging out for interminable amounts of time, relatively speaking. Unfortunately, that match seems to have been somewhat foregone in that the enemy held more null cannons for slightly longer than your team did. That said, you say it was a close match, and that's really good- it's hard to find such matches these days.
In reference to your "Impact of War" complaint, in that you find you are fighting Gallente FW one day, and then Caldari the next, try changing your faction preference for FW. I currently have my FW preferences to be only for the Amarr. I think the main issue your running into in that regard is just that by default the FW battle-finder has all factions selected. It's also worth noting that December 10th will bring the 1.7 update, and a massively overhauled FW system that gives DUST players a greater view of their impact on FW.
vilstan wrote:*Visuals, Ident, Vehicles, and Certs*
You really haven't looked much at the DUST character models, have you. Seriously, I personally think Planetside 2 looks ridiculous and cartoonish. The Vanu faction is a great example of this; a bunch of dudes in purple? Really? What is the explanation of this?
For the Amarr, the gold-plated suits are explained as the fact that the Amarr have a whole aesthetics=function gig, wherein that which looks awesome is awesome and works awesome. It's a logically explained aspect (culture can have a massive impact on how people do things).
As far as weapons, I've always felt that the DUST guns have some good impact to them. Maybe some more than others, like the various explosive/splash-damage weapons, as well as Shotguns, but I've never really had that problem. Also, there is not currently any weapon customization- it's something that is stated to be on the roadmap, which means we won't see it for a while; core mechanics have a (rightly) higher priority.
As far as AV weapons, Forge Guns have impact. Swarm launchers I would agree, don't have a lot of impact, but they are also the easiest weapon in the game to use. This somewhat leads into the next point of vehicles, but I'll touch on "ID'ing" first.
As far as being able to indentify what suits are what, that will really just come in time. Also, thinking that each Empire's dropsuits are samey is heresy. How dare you claim that my gorgeous Amarrian warplate is similar in appearance to that tetanus-fest plated set of suspenders that is the Minmatar dropsuit! /inner RP'er
In regards to vehicles being OP...... Well, right now, they really aren't. Sure, if you have militia-grade (IE, new player) AV weapons, then yeah, they're pretty unstoppable. But even the Level 3 operation skill weapons (things like "CBR7 Swarm Launcher" and "DCMA-5 Breach Forge Gun") are a potent threat to vehicles. Like anything in DUST- and EVE- skilling into something is a bit of a requirement in order to counter guys who sink lots of SP into a role.
I will also note that the Starter Anti-Vehicle fit is pretty crappy in the first place- it should really have an SMG rather than a Scrambler Pistol.
Finally, I will echo a previous comment regarding certifications- it's taken EVE ten years to get a very useful and informative cert system. Ten. Years. DUST could use one, but there are other things higher on the list of things that it could use. The other side of that is that CCP Shanghai (the branch for DUST) is somewhat quietly acknowledged to be a tad understaffed. Fewer devs with more stuff to do means ruthlessly prioritized updates. |
vilstan
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 18:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
You know, I may have missed Battle Academy entirely.
I don't recall it being there in beta when I created my character and played a game and when I started it back up over Thanksgiving break I was just sitting there in my dingy little merc quarters. I read the 'help' stuff from the neo com and then started jumping in battles.
Is there a way to 'redo' battle academy? |
Forlorn Destrier
2244
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Posted - 2013.12.04 18:40:00 -
[34] - Quote
My thoughts about your thoughts:
1. I think you exaggerate but yes it could use some work.
2. You can see red dots on the screen around spawn points - I think this is intuitive to know it is dangerous. If talking about Ambush, I have no comment as I don't play ambush
3. Roofs do protect you if you are fully under cover. If this is your only complaint, this seems to be unconstructive feedback with what is wrong gameplay wise. If this is a bug, which it sounds like, you should report it so it can be fixed. Please elaborate on why else it doesn't work gameplay wise as opposed to just expressing your opinion so that CCP can take your concerns under consideration.
4. Agreed it's bad and needs work
5. If you look around the environment, you will see that each MCC is shooting at each other doing damage. Having all of the null cannons won't protect your MCC if you are close to death. There does come a time when victory by one method is unlikely and you should follow alternative routes - killing the enemy clones for example. Victory conditions are explained in the forums only so I do agree they can expand on sharing this in game, though.
6. Public matches have no impact - this is the lobby shooter part. For FW, read the devblog released yesterday about the changes coming next week. For PC, join a PC corp and you will see the impacts.
7. Look at the skyboxes. Also watch the original Star Wars. This should give you an idea of the concepts. Keep in mind that these are normal worlds - we haven't been given the more exotic locals yet as they are still in the concept stages. We all want more, you aren't the only one.
8. They are overpowered compared to a new player with no skills, you are right. Once you skill up into higher tier items they are much more squishy. Keep in mind though that those players are also skilling up and might have millions of SP invested in a vehicle. You wouldn't attack a BS in a frigate in Eve, right? That said, there is a full rebalance coming next week (again, see forums and devblogs).
9. Certifications in Eve are a joke. Even the new system isn't that productive. I'd rather not have certifications.
10. Random loot drops in public matches; again read devblog yesterday for information about FW and PC. Could be made clear in game somehow.
11. This is a basis concept of the game and won't be changed; if a deal breaker for you, then I suspect the game concept isn't for you.
12. More would be nice, agreed. But again, check for changes to FW happening next week to make them different in some regards (other than the ultimate objective).
13. Maps are designed to allow for vehicle combat and large moving fights. Eventual goals are 128v128 battles as well, if I'm not mistaken. Agree that they are too big this early. Easy to counter by calling an LAV or hitching a ride on a DS that someone always calls at beginning of match. I would like some tighter maps as well.
Conclusion - yes it needs work and we are getting monthly updates which no other game does. Be patient, grasshopper, and you will see improvement. Alternatively, come back after the changes if the game is not fun for you as it stands today.
Chivalry is not dead, but many who practiced it are.
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vilstan
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 18:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
Thanks for the answers on turrets. I am too used to PS2 I guess, where when you operate a turret you are inside it and safe from small arms fire.
The Dust turrets are massive compared to PS2 turrets so I just assumed there was room in there for me too. If I'm just standing around looking at a console then I can see how I'd get easily sniped.
To the person righteously indignant over my lumping Amarr suits in with the others - yes, Amarr is the one I can tell apart from the others, but I really can't tell minmatar/gallente/caldari apart very well at all.
Not that that really matters, I guess. What's more important (presumably?) is if I'm fighting a heavy assault or a medic or a scout or...something. I don't have a good handle on that yet at all, or suit roles in general.
I *think* this is made harder by the fact that the starter suits don't seem to have any role bonuses at all? Or am I making that up/missing them? |
Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
622
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 18:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
1. It is pretty horrific. While CCP is trying to fix this...I think it's mostly because they're not used to babying players >.> lol. Look at EVE and then look at Dust. I believe there's much more hand holding going on here. But even then, a lot of players lack common sense. When I first played the game I did have information about it beforehand but I didn't really know "enough" to be a pro at it.
I realized that each suit was different and that players can adjust their suits to a situation. I realized that sometimes it's best to escape a confrontation because the odds were against me. If I didn't realize it, I had to learn it. While I agree that the curve is too steep, the game shouldn't be extremely easy to leap into right from the bat. Players should still need to learn the ins and outs of different aspects of the game but they also should be able to understand the basics from the get go.
2. Spawn Camping only happens in Ambush and when I stepped back into it recently, it only happens when you spawn in on uplinks...which makes total sense because I'd go after that pulsating free-kill device as well if I seen it. Having a "safe spawn" feature would make it too "easy" in a way. We need players to question whether or not to spawn there or somewhere else. Also, yeah if you're smart about it, you'll grab a militia uplink and plant one in a different location to avoid spawn camping. Oddly enough it took me less time to realize that than it took me to realize you could buy uplinks from the militia section of the market -_-.
3. Gameplay wise, it's tactical. You don't even have to be winning to get a precision strike first. You just need to have the WPs which can be accumulated by logistics(uplinks, repairing, reviving, assisting, scanning).
4. Yes. I agree. I'm glad you didn't say anything about Proto Stomping and declare the trouble being with actual teams. The problem here is both in mindstate of the players and in the actual matchmaking. When faced with a strong team, a weaker team will do EVERYTHING else working efficiently. Snipers who only want points, AFKers, lone wolves who don't understand the game mechanics, players not thinking tactically and attacking the same point over and over and over again. At the same time, players shouldn't be facing other players who are way above their ability to handle.
5. ? The game actually explains itself in the load screens but I guess the only part players don't pick up is that the MCCs are attacking each other as well as the null cannons. Even with all the points captured, you're still getting damage but it's not that much damage compared to if you had a null cannon. It's been a many games like this and you'd just have to chalk it up to not doing what needed to be done in time.
6. ._. Did you make it so that you only fight for the Gallente? If you have all sides selected for possible battles, you'll be thrown into whatever. Besides that, this should be slightly fix in 6 days with the FW 2.0 and it's Loyalty Stores. You'll only be able to fight for certain groups after playing with them for long enough and you get points from them to buy equipment with. But imo that's not enough to make things really significant. We need some backstory on why we're fighting for districts. I'd want to know why the Federation is attacking the Caldari State and Heth's district but then that's me. Without having played PS2 and only reading up on it, it seems very PS2ish with the constant fighting over areas without reason other than "OMGERSH I HATE U." Which as a mercenary, I don't hate any single faction.
But a portion of that problem can be fixed if you jumped into the community >.>...When you know who's who and stuff, you feel a much bigger impact when you're fighting. "Oh. We're going against AE in Pubs? Better put on my game face and give em a good game."
7. I agree on the first part but the most colorful game in the EVE-verse is actually Valkeryie lol and that's yet to be released. I do think the blandness can be really good if it's done right but idk. I kinda think it's just the planets though. We get on to areas with forests, lakes, and thick vegetation it should be much more colorful. The blandness does work well when it's in contrasts with something colorful like when the Titan ship crashed into the planet and the sky was on fire and raining death.
It's not hard to tell what you're fighting. Scouts have a light size and shape and the races we're limited to have completely different designs. The medium suits all look very different with the logistics versions having color schemes that stand out. There's no mistaking the only heavy suits we have. Then there's the special suits that you can't purchase normally but even then you can point your gun at them and figure out the stats. It even says what kind of suit it is when you aim at them.
But seriously, I think it's just people not paying close enough attention to detail. I could tell the difference between an Amarr assault and a Gallente assault easily even if I'm not focusing on them. I mean >.> seriously...look at the avatars on the forums and tell me they look the same O_o. If it's not an attention to detail it's the fact that it's not "explosive" in color like Team Fortress 2(which is a very bad example because that game is WAY more colorful and it's main selling point is the different classes and the characteristics of each class).
8. o_o This is very far from the truth. Any vehicle can be demolished in 15 seconds or less if you know what you're doing and have good equipment. If you don't know what you're doing and have decent equipment, you can still take a tank down single handily. I do agree that the milita suit first given out sucks but you can edit it and switch out weapons and mods.
9. I believe it took a long time for EVE to get that, right? Dust might get it sooner than them but who knows.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Templar 514
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
63
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:00:00 -
[37] - Quote
To finish up, because lolcharacterlimits:
vilstan wrote:*Salvage, The Cost of Death, Game Modes, Map Design, Competitiveness*
Salvage in public matches are based on loot tables. Think of it like the drops/spawns from belt ratting- sometimes you get okay gear, and every so often you get officer gear.... Unfortunately it seems to like to give officer gear that you'll never use (I have more officer ARs than I know what to do with, and that I will never use, for example).
Salvage in Planetary Conquest matches is a 50% drop rate of destroyed enemy stuff, while FW will be changed to be a 25% drop rate of destroyed enemy stuff.
Insofar as the so-called "Cost of Death", this is an entirely novel thing for a competitive multiplayer shoorter. There is virtually no other game where death has an economic impact, rather than just being another ultimately meaningless stat. This is actually something that makes DUST different, and creates interest in the game.
In regards to the "blapshot dead" issue, it's actually something that's for every single piece of equipment. It's just that high-EHP suits tend to be blapped by different things- a militia medium suit will be easily blapped by a damage-modded Charge Sniper Rifle or even a low-end Shotgun, while blapping a heavy suit will require a damage-modded Forge Gun. This is somewhat a balancing mechanism, because a total newbie in a militia heavy suit with a militia Forge Gun can fight veteran players on semi-equal terms- that MLT Forge will blap the incredibly expensive protosuit of a veteran with ease.
As far as Game Mode repetition, we've really only got three modes right now. Ambush, Domination, and Skirmish. So this is a semi-legitimate complaint, but do remember that DUST hasn't got the impressive pedigree of say, Battlefield. And that Planetside 2 is just as bad in this regard- I'd even say worse, TBH.
In terms of Map Design issues, we've come a long way, and we still have a long way to go. Ultimately, the issue is that we're running 32-player battles on maps that are probably designed more for 48- or 64-player battles. The other core issue is that DUST is supposed to be pretty vehicle oriented, but at the same time vehicles are personal assets, rather than social assets like in BF or PS2.
In other words, you purchase, fit, and call in a vehicle for yourself- you're not at the mercy of a line of people who will LEEROY! a tank/chopper/jet into a pack of Engineers/mountain/the ground to get a vehicle. Nor are you limited by the resources your faction has, like in PS2. So this does impose a certain amount of limitations on what players are willing to risk, especially when ~90% of "bluedots" (IE, teammates) act in a terminally ******** fashion- which in turn feeds back into the problems with NPE.
Finally, to look at DUST's market competitiveness. I'm going to be straight here- if you can't figure out why DUST players are participating in FW, then you probably aren't a big EVE player. Or at least, you don't understand EVE-side FW. Because ultimately, EVE and DUST players will have a lot of the same reasons for participating in faction warfare. I personally think that FW is much more awesome than PS2's conflict, because PS2 is a mindless meatgrinder of endless zerging.
That's not fun. It's stupid. There's a reason a lot of early reviews called DUST a "thinking man's shooter", and that's because it is. I can make a stealthy and tanky and killy suit- and it can even be all three things at the same time. It won't be as stealthy or tanky or killy as a suit designed/fitted to that particular task, but it will get results, and function reasonably well.
But again, this does come back to the NPE, and the general clarity with which information and background is conveyed. It needs a lot of improvements, but there are a lot of other things that need improvement (or straight up implementation) first.
OTOH, looking back at your posts, you seem to be doing a lot of comparison to Planetside 2. Are you sure that you're not going into DUST thinking "this will be kind of like PS2", instead of thinking "this will be like DUST"? Because DUST is fundamentally different from every single shooter out there. |
George Moros
Area 514
204
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
1. Agreed. NPE needs much more improvement.
2. Actually, you can see if reds are camping your CRU (altough, you can't see reds camping a drop uplink). There's also the infamous redline, which is introduced specifically to prevent spawn camping. I'd say that although it's certainly possible to set up a spawn camp, it's also always possible to avoid one. Improved NPE (teaching people about how this works, and how to avoid it) would IMHO eliminate any argument about DUST being a haven for spawn camping.
3. Orbitals are fine. Actually, in some situations, orbital is the only method to break the defense of a well entrenched enemy.
4. Matchmaking sucks. Still, it remains to be seen whether this is because Scotty is doing a lousy job, or there simply isn't enough active players for matchmaking to work good.
5. I wouldn't call the victory conditions "extremely poorly explained", but it wouldn't hurt for them to be more informative. Again, poor NPE.
6. Agreed. All of the "your next shot could topple an empire" advertising is far from being realized. Soon(TM).
7. This is where we completely disagree. I find DUST to have a remarkable visual style. Your comparison to PS2 makes no sense. DUST is happening in New Eden, and it follows the visual style of EVE quite good. As it should.
8. Funny, but most vehicle users claim just the opposite. I'm no expert in vehicles, but they don't seem OP to me.
9. I don't think that EVE's certificate system was too helpful to a new player with regards to skill training. Maybe the new one introduced in Rubicon is better.
10. Salvaging is not functioning as it does in EVE. It's just a very simplified version of it. This is a shooter after all.
11. Permanent loss of equipment is the primary reason why I play DUST, and not some other shooter. This is currently the only game mechanic that truly sets it apart from other shooters, and the one that makes shooting people more meaningful than in other shooters. In EVE, you can avoid getting killed only if you fly ships that are specifically designed to avoid combat. This can be achieved in DUST, but it wouldn't make any sense ATM. And finally, concerning your "in EVE, you can't get insta-popped" argument... no offense, but have you really ever played EVE?
Pulvereus ergo queritor.
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vilstan
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
Templar 514 wrote:IRegarding Orbital Strikes, the main issue I see is that strikes are linked to squad warpoint totals, so squads that dominate tend to get multiple strikes and then kill all the things. For the record, most proper buildings will protect you from a strike, so long as you stay away from doorways/windows. There are stories of people riding out strikes by wedging themselves into corners, though this is rare.
Forlorn Destrier wrote:My thoughts about your thoughts:
3. Roofs do protect you if you are fully under cover. If this is your only complaint, this seems to be unconstructive feedback with what is wrong gameplay wise. If this is a bug, which it sounds like, you should report it so it can be fixed. Please elaborate on why else it doesn't work gameplay wise as opposed to just expressing your opinion so that CCP can take your concerns under consideration.
The roof thing was just an oddity I noticed. I could see if roofs didn't protect you at all (I mean, presumably the ordinance would destroy the buildings) but since visually the buildings seemed to withstand the bombardment I thought they might protect me as well. The ones where I've died I guess are vehicle bays? IE no front wall but a pretty deep 'garage' like area I was hiding in. Now I just run like hell when I hear the orbital strike sound and usually live that way.
My primary complaint about orbital strikes (echoed in the above quote) is that they only ever seem to get called in when one team is rofl stomping the other team, and it just helps the winning team win even more. Stuff like that may as well be removed from the game. The losing team doesn't need to get bombarded in their one remaining spawn point.
Quote:11. This is a basis concept of the game and won't be changed; if a deal breaker for you, then I suspect the game concept isn't for you.
Oh, it's not a deal breaker for me at all. Its one of the things that attracted me in the first place. I just think doing it that way makes the new player experience even more difficult than it otherwise would be. I think the militia gear (which seems really cheap compared to everything else) is an attempt to fix this for new players, which I appreciate.
It's just that not only are new players throttled by their SP gains to access new stuff, they also have to worry about their wallet. So like, even once you skill up for something, you don't actually have the ISK to really 'use' it yet. I assume we still follow the EVE rule of 'don't use it if you can't afford to lose it'.
Also I'm happy to hear there are FW improvements coming. As far as vehicles go, it sounds like they aren't too strong, just that the AV starter set (in paticular) is terribad - both in choice of side arm and the actual swarm launcher itself.
As far as I can tell...you hold R1 while over the target and then release and...stuff flies all over and maybe hits the target :D Do you need to keep tracking the target in your reticule while the missiles fly over there? Or can you immediately duck back into cover? |
Cymek Omnius
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:04:00 -
[40] - Quote
vilstan wrote:I'll preface this by saying that I'm sure people are going to refer back to the famously steep learning curve and harsh unwelcoming environment of EVE. That works for EVE. I love EVE, and the unforgiving and risky environment is part of what makes it great. But there is a key distinction - there is no other game like EVE. If you want to play anything like EVE, there is EVE, and only EVE. If it has warts and faults you have to put up with them.
Not so for Dust. If I want to play a scifi fps...I have unbelievable amounts of options. I chose to give Dust a try because I really love EVE and want to love Dust as well. However it doesn't seem to love me back. As an FPS, it seems to be distinctly mediocre and suffer many glaring faults.
1) The new player experience is pretty horrific. Not *quite* as bad as the new player experience in Planetside 2, where they just hurled you into the middle of a massive firefight as the very first thing in the game. My first kill there was a friendly medic who was wearing camo and healing me and I had no idea what was going on. It's not quite that bad here, but it's pretty bad. You have no idea what's going on, what you are supposed to be doing, how to not die over and over instantly. I know how fittings work from EVE, but scanning seems pretty important and is never explained anywhere. Sometimes you'll unload an entire clip into a guy, he'll casually turn and kill you. Othertimes you drop someone in 3 bullets. It all seems wildly inconsistent. New players can't learn if they can't tell what is going on. The information conveyed by the death screen in PS2 is pretty bad and I feel like this one is even less informative.
2) Spawn camping. Most games seem to go out of their way to prevent spawn camping. This game downright encourages it! Part of that is the way the different spawn options work, and I understand why they have done it the way they have, but a new player isn't really going to figure that out. All he's going to know is he keeps spawning and then getting instantly mowed down. Maybe some sort of visual indicator of 'safe' spawn points vs non safe spawn points?
3) Orbital strike. Thematic, yes. Gameplay wise, I think it's horrible. Particularly as people seem to like to drop it on spawn points. Plus, roofs don't seem to protect you.(?)
4) Matchmaking: Atrociously bad. There are almost no close fights, it's almost all hilarious one sided blowouts. Usually there's a couple guys running around from the same corp going 12/0, 16/1 or whatever, and everyone on the other team is like 2/8 or something. Sometimes you're on the team with the miracle crew, sometimes you're not. Either way, the success or defeat is pretty much pre determined for you by the matchmaker and your actions have no impact
5) Extremely poorly explained victory conditions: one match where there were no amazing 20/0 killers just wiping everyone out, it was a close match. Our MMC was very close to death, theirs was a little farther away. With a heroic effort, we managed to capture ALL the null cannons! And there was much rejoicing. Now we just have to ferociously defend them for a few more seconds until their MMC dies and..oh wait, what? Our MMC just blew up anyway? But there are no null cannons shooting at it! This wouldn't be a big deal if the game weren't full of moments telling you that what you are doing doesn't matter
6) You feel you aren't having any kind of impact at all and that what you are doing barely matters. Ok, so we're anonymous mercenaries doing whatever we want.. That's nice, but when one day I'm fighting for the Gallente in FW and the next day I'm fighting against them in FW, it really makes me not care a bit about the way the match actually ends and mostly about my own performance in it. And even your own payout seems to be mostly divorced from your actual performance. I seem to get about the same amount as when I own it up and kill 10 people and we win and I suck horribly and die 10 times and we lose. Your allies one match might be your enemies the next. One minute you're fighting at this end of the Universe the next you're fighting at the other end. Shrug. It all feels very ephemeral and pointless.
Contrast this to Planetside 2, where you are locked into one faction, the other factions are your hated rivals, you will come to trust and rely on other people in your faction and hate and watch out for other people in the other faction. At any moment, you can pop open the map and see how well 'your' faction is doing. You can organize with hundreds of other players from your faction and spend the whole day slowly sweeping across the map and turning it all blue. Each fight is a necessary stepping stone to the next fight, not a random disconnected pointless skirmish in the middle of nowhere. There is an ongoing war and at any moment you can see how it is going and you know your part in it.
(more below, apparently there is a fairly low character limit?)
I can not say your wrong on any of those points. I am a bitter Vet and former Eve player at times and I had to take a few months away from Dust myself. I understand your frustration. I did notice some improvement when I returned. Best advice I can give is to find a good Corp in Dust and weather the storm till they make things better.
Or take a break and return to see if its better later. I too have my concerns with the new player experience in Dust and its population. Just imagine if you were new to both Eve and Dust.
They have said they want to make matchmaking better and introduce PVE. Both I think would help the new player experience. I am just hoping its not to late by the time they do. |
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Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
614
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:04:00 -
[41] - Quote
I hear you, OP!
The best thing I can advise you to do is join a corp and get a mentor.
Dust University is famous for its lectures (given on comms) and for tutoring noobs. Join them if you can't find a good, helpful corp.
Munch
What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1742
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
1) The new player experience needs work, but is better than it used to be. They are still working on it. Join Learning Coalition chat. There will be experienced players there to answer any questions you may have. As with EVE in its early days, the players are stepping up and trying to help.
2) When you spawn you are clonked, just like when you go through a gate in EVE, only it does not last very long. Also, spawn points have sensors now which project near by red dots unless they have the stealth to full the sensors. This is a major improvement over the way it used to be. With the Cloak it is even possible to ambush the spawn campers.
3) Orbital strikes are very important tactically. However, many squad leaders go for max kill count rather than using them strategically, so they are often wasted.
4) The match making system has settings to make it good, but requires a larger player base to work without making really long que times. CCP decided to tern down all the settings to insure shorter que times. You are free to debate whether it is better to have good match making or fast que times.
5) Null cannons continue to fire while the virus is uploading. They only switch sides when the colour changes. That is why it is important to counter hack, rather than waiting for a Null cannon to turn and then hacking it back. Also, each of the MCCGÇÖs have their own null cannon, so the MCC will still do some damage even when you hold all the objectives.
6) The improvements to Faction Warfare being implemented next week should help give you a feel of the importance and impact you are having in Faction Warfare. The payout for a public match includes a large lump sum for participating, plus a bonus for how well you did in the match. I have heard of people making over 300,000 ISK in a pub match. For rivalries, you need to get into Planetary Conquest where different Alliances are vying for control of Molden Heath. (Yes, Planetary Conquest needs work, but CCP is actively working on Planetary Conquest 2.0.)
7) Visually you may have a point. It is a bit dull and weathered looking. My wife complains about this too. That being said, I donGÇÖt have any trouble distinguishing the different dropsuits. Maybe it just takes practice to be able to distinguish the details.
8) Actually vehicles are very underpowered right now. For a new player, your quickest way to become a tank killer is to skill into AV grenades. Forge guns, once you get the feel for them, can be very effective. As far as the free AV suit, it is about as powerful as a free frigate in EVE. You need an upgraded Swarm Launcher to be effective. That pistol has a huge head shot bonus, but unless you are an excellent shot, I suggest switching it out for an SMG when you can afford to. All the vehicle and AV stuff is getting rebalanced next week.
9) EVE did not have certifications when I started playing it. They are nice. Maybe DUST will have them too someday, but there are a lot of things that EVE has that DUST does not have yet. I donGÇÖt see certifications as a high priority compared to some of the other stuff.
10) I think the assumption is that you did the salvaging after the battle was over. It gets assigned randomly in pub matches. In FW (as of next week) and in PC, salvage consists of stuff lost by the other team.
11) In EVE you donGÇÖt fly anything you canGÇÖt afford to loose. In DUST you donGÇÖt ware anything you canGÇÖt afford to lose 10 of. (Or 5, whatever your average death count is.) It is the same process of risk versus reward. You just have to factor in the deaths that are inevitable and can not be avoided. (I have a guide for that.) If you only ware the starter fits you will not loose any ISK. If you run all Proto suits you lose a LOT of ISK. Find your balance. As you mentioned, you start with Militia gear until you can afford better.
12) We hope to have more variety of game modes in the future. We will probably be limited to 3 (or 2 depending on how you look at it) for a while yet.
13) I play a heavy, which is slow. If I want to travel 600m across open ground I call in a LAV and drive. Good uplink placement by you or your teammates can also help to avoid making the same long trek twice. The lack of cover in some areas can be a problem though, so you have a point there.
As far as player retention, I donGÇÖt think CCP thinks they are there yet either. When they think the game is mature enough to keep peopleGÇÖs attention, then they will run those TV adds they previewed at Fan Fest. |
Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
622
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
10. They need a better explanation but it's basically based on who you killed and whether or not you won.
11. The model isn't an issue. It's just people not liking it is all, which I can understand but then that just means you shouldn't play it(no offense). You can't just start off rich, then you'd be a trust fund baby :3. Nah, you gotta work your way up. I do believe that wearing militia gear both saves ISK and teaches you to adapt and react quickly due to being the most vulnerable. But yeah, if this model was taken out I'd probably slowly get away from Dust since it's such a major part of the game when it comes to thrills and risk taking and the economics I wanted to get into.
12. Pretty much in agreement. We've been asking for new game modes for a while but I believe they're waiting to give us other things before working on incorporating and entirely new game mode into both the lore and the games.
13. ?? The game has a lot of cover but it's the terrain that differs. You could run from an urbanized zone to a blank terrain, or from a mountain area to the base of said area and get shot up. I've never faced a game where my only option was to take a long and open path. I take those long and open path for the advantage of the team and sneaking when I need to do so.
Also yeah the buildings are easy to camp in but >.> they're easy to flush out due to grenades and explosives like in real life.
It does have to work hard to gain a brand new pool of players but at the same time the game is dedicated to certain type of players who probably would prefer for this game to tone down it's differences. I agree completely on the motivation and what not. When I first came in we had events that had to do a lot with story but as we went on these events started to decline...I guess it's because of other things taking priority but I really do wish we had events that would motivate me to really get out there and kill. As I've said before, we need a Faction Warfare that's above PS2 because PS2 is nothing more than a cycle of fighting instead of an actual story or purpose. "Oh hey. They took our district back. We need to go take it again!" will get boring to me after the first month. I'll probably be farming the LP but I do want way more.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
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Templar 514
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
63
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
vilstan wrote:My primary complaint about orbital strikes (echoed in the above quote) is that they only ever seem to get called in when one team is rofl stomping the other team, and it just helps the winning team win even more. Stuff like that may as well be removed from the game. The losing team doesn't need to get bombarded in their one remaining spawn point.
I do agree that strikes tend to be gained by the winning team and just help them win more, but this is more due to the mechanics of orbital strikes in pub matches (it's being changed in FW matches, so that's really awesome). If strikes were decoupled from WPs, and maybe tied to a capturable point (like, say, an anti-ortillery emplacement /hopeful optimism), and you had to actually be at that point to call in a strike every few minutes, it would probably end up being a bit more balanced. Maybe.
I don't know, that sounded a lot better in my head, so them's the breaks, I suppose.
vilstan wrote:As far as I can tell...you hold R1 while over the target and then release and...stuff flies all over and maybe hits the target :D Do you need to keep tracking the target in your reticule while the missiles fly over there? Or can you immediately duck back into cover?
It's fire and forget. You lock, release, and then it fires and you can run away (like a little girl if you so choose- I won't judge). That said, you can actually dump an entire Swarm clip within about 3-4 seconds, so you may want to pop in-and-out of cover three times to get all shots in the air. |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
126
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
MCC* correction, you probably haven't gotten into PC & the wars, spawn camping rarely happens, why are you on a roof unless your sniping/forging or putting a uplink/ammo down you shouldn't be safe up their to hide, some good feedback won't lie but understand Dust 514 is a beta YET isn't a beta.
Yes they need game modes theirs only 3 & all 3 are basically the same only varying in how the players approach it, yes I don't see a purpose in a huge map unless you have more vehicle warfare options which aren't out yet (still VERY sastisfying though if you can redline on a huge map), newbie stuff does need work more, I've already discussed proto stomping in another post of mine
lol at salvage part yes they need more salvage I only see ALOT of salvage in PC, Orbitals are awesome I love them very sastisfying orbitals & the sound for them coming in is awesome |
Preacher Death 2
Lockheed Dynamics
62
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
1. Ambush - kill reds
Skirmish, domination - Capture control points and kill reds
Pretty easy to figure out.
2. Drop uplinks, get a suit on one and some LAV's. Spawn camp broken.
3. Meh, hardly use them and hardly die from them.
4. Eve is a cold place and matchmaking should be cold and random.
5. MCC's shoot missiles as well. A few bars of health will get taken down pretty fast with just the MCC.
6. I'm a merc for hire why should I hold-fast to any one faction. Except when it comes to the Minmatar. They need to be purified. |
8213
BIG BAD W0LVES
940
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:35:00 -
[47] - Quote
I could educate you on all misinformed opinions you have and guide you on solutions to your problems but you're new here. You do give a very good point of view and I realize that this game is not worth the patients of a new player.
I would be educating non stop because new players have it harder now than ever. |
lordjanuz
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation
Top Men.
237
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
Very good feedback. One thing I do not agree on is that the maps are to big, I do hope they get much bigger. |
vilstan
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 19:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
lordjanuz wrote:Very good feedback. One thing I do not agree on is that the maps are to big, I do hope they get much bigger.
I hear they are getting more players (someone mentioned 128 vs 128? That would be great!) which should help greatly.
Currently it just seems like vast empty expanses with a couple guys scattered about. |
Luk Manag
of Terror
TRE GAFFEL
191
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 20:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
The starter AV is comically bad. The cheapest upgrade would be level 1 AV grenades and milita nanohives (because the swarm launcher doesn't hold enough missiles). Even when they nerf the swarm launcher and AV grenade damage on the 10th, you'll still have a chance at killing a tank if you also carry a nanohive.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
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Dbukalski
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2013.12.04 20:59:00 -
[51] - Quote
vilstan wrote:Thanks for the answers guys. Good to know salvage will just happen and I'm not missing any by not standing over enemy corpses holding down O or anything like that.
I will have to look at Dust University. Especially if it's the same group, EVE University guys were good folks.
I have one other question on turrets...do they shoot in their own? I once hacked a missile turret and it immediately started shooting at...something. Maybe the MCC? And how do you kill people in them? (Or kill them directly?) Sometimes I see one turret kill another turret, and I don't know if they respawn or have to be built or what. Other times I am in a turret and I suddenly wind up dead. Not sure if I got hacked out or maybe shot by a sniper or something else.
Turrets dont shoot at mcc. They ineffectively shoot at ground targets. Except rail turrets their deadly
They cant be built. Some game modes they do get dropped from orbit randomly. Once their destroyed their gone permanently
U get shot while operating turret because ur not inside the turret. Ur standing outside at the control panel. So anyone can kill u any way they want. That one took me a while to figure out. So u do want to use the turrets body as a shield. Ull still get killed tso use that info to decide if its worth doing. |
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
290
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:09:00 -
[52] - Quote
vilstan wrote:Ivy Zalinto wrote:Only one thing I want to give you a tip on for gameplay. Everything else I've read is correct. That pistol you have is very dangerous being on the other end. I only run pistols as my weapon and they pay out extensively for every point of sp Ive put into them. That's good to know. Is that the warp scrambler pistol? They made it sound like it ignored shields or something, which I agree could make it really valuable. This actually brings up another point: if you decide "I want to be better at pistols" there's almost no guidance on how to do this. It would be helpful to have a list of skills that effect each weapon or module you have to make it better. Maybe this already exists and I have simply missed it.
Don't know if already addressed, but it has the highest headshot multiplier in the game, something like X4.5 or so. Very potent in the right hands (not mine, though I do well enough.)
Names of playstyles
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Jadd Hatchen
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
134
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
It's great to hear your input and impressions of the game and it helps to provide more insight.
1) I agree that the NPE is horrible still. It's better than it was, but still too dumb and simple. Players have to be shown more of the game's options, like how to use the neocom, how to squad up, how to use voice, how to work with other players, etc. But most of all it should be impressed upon the player how difficult battles in this game will be. Hell it should not only be a theme of this FPS, but a "badge of honor" that you can survive playing in this game. The training needs to feature some kinda hard-ass attitude drill sergeant like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71Lft6EQh-Y
2) It's somewhat of a problem, but mostly in Ambush. Luckily they just added a fix for that in 1.7. 8)
3) It *is* needed for the link between the two games. I agree that they need to fix the corner cases where sometimes you can take cover and sometimes you can't. Inconsistencies cause frustration and that is bad.
4) Matchmaking is horrible and needs fixing and unfortunately it's made worse by lower populations from which to make the matches. Right now all they can do is put on band-aids until more players start playing. Allowing team queuing is a good start to fixing the imbalance though.
5) That happened because there is another null cannon that each side has that cannot be captured - the MCC itself is armed! They do need to explain this, but by watching an MCC long enough you can see the graphics of when it fires.
6) I totally agree with you. I'm happy that they are adding in FW loyalty points in 1.7 to help change this. However they still need to add in a full complement of racial weapons, equipment, and vehicles (to include faction themed buildings and defense turrets) to bring this out more.
7) Graphics are blah because of limitations of the system. As for enemy identification, I agree that they chose a system for colors etc that is lame and has been from the start. But the basic idea is anything yellow-ish is supposed to be a logistics suit, white-ish is an assault, etc... But then they even violate their own conventions later on anyways so it's pointless now. By contrast take a look at the differences between before and after Trinity in graphics for EVE online here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maMjjUr6zIQ&list=PLQvKSs1k6DLM_A7Y5dbK5uH5kOwNDALK7&index=30
My assumption is something similar will occur with this game once it is ported to the PS4... one day...
8) Vehicles are being rebalanced so we'll see how this works out in 1.7. But in the end you won't really know how this will fall out until they fully flesh out the other two races' worth of vehicles too. Really dumb to be this far into a game's development and be missing fully one half of the vehicles.
9) Agreed, but at least they have that dumb skill tree to help out. In the end, just don't EVER remove the full list view that is under the character sheet page. There always needs to be a way to see the full possibilities or else you have no idea where to start for planning ahead.
10) Yeah it's really lame right now unless you are in a PC battle (which is a very small percentage of the playerbase). Luckily they are adding more of this into FW in 1.7. But at some point I hope they actually try to add in a mechanic within the game to try and salvage with tools during the match.
11) It's the heart of the "free to play" model. It's how they expect this game to actually bring in more money than the subscription model that EVE is based upon. If you run a full set of AUR gear, then you are paying about 25 cents per "life" kinda like most arcade games today.
12) Totally agree. They used to have a completely different and much better skirmish model during beta that they got rid of. At EVE Vegas they promised in the near future they would be implementing a new skirmish system that was still under development.
13) Yeah, that's where teamplay is supposed to support you with more drop uplink choices and vehicle transportation, but players have to work together and coordinate for that to happen.
The huge feeling of no real impact comes from the fact that CCP hasn't figure out some "spectacularly awesome EVE-universe holographically pretty" way to implement this in the game yet:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/districts/Molden_Heath
Once they do this not only for PC areas but also for FW districts too AND include it INSIDE the game, players will remain clueless as to the effect they are having on the EVE Universe.
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Akdhar Saif
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
88
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
The NPE is horrid. There's no PVE to introduce the player to the games mechanics.
The academy is just WP limited matches. They should just make it a gear limited Training Ground/Arena where all weapon TYPES are available but only in their basic/rookie versions. As a Training ground ISK isn't lost on equipment. That way people can learn to play the game without fear of losing out on ISK. My idea isn't perfect but "The Academy" seems too much like a simple fix for a much more difficult problem. |
Ivy Zalinto
Bobbit's Hangmen
89
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 15:39:00 -
[55] - Quote
vilstan wrote:Ivy Zalinto wrote:Only one thing I want to give you a tip on for gameplay. Everything else I've read is correct. That pistol you have is very dangerous being on the other end. I only run pistols as my weapon and they pay out extensively for every point of sp Ive put into them. That's good to know. Is that the warp scrambler pistol? They made it sound like it ignored shields or something, which I agree could make it really valuable. This actually brings up another point: if you decide "I want to be better at pistols" there's almost no guidance on how to do this. It would be helpful to have a list of skills that effect each weapon or module you have to make it better. Maybe this already exists and I have simply missed it.
Im a trainer for scout pistols in the learning coalition though Im still in my own merc corp. If you contact me in game I can in fact teach you to use these, but they definitely dont ignore shields. If they did, Id hit a hell of a lot harder. Thing warp pistols were mass effect as well...
Dedicated scout.
Player bodyguard
Pistol supremacy.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
377
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 15:48:00 -
[56] - Quote
When every players personal aiming skill played a major role in how games turned out this was a massively different FPS option then anything really offered.
Now we are back to a cookie cutter shooter with very little satisfaction in even killing someone. |
vilstan
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
42
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 15:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
I spent a lot of time yesterday looking at the market. I bought a big stack of all the militia stuff so I could try out different things. I also think I'm getting better at being able to tell the different suit types apart.
Also, is it my imagination, or do the MCC's also look a little different depending on empire?
It seems like the only heavy suit is the Amarr one, and Amarr has no light while the others do. And everyone gets a scout. At least at the militia level.
Now, the militia suits (and I think the first level of basic ones) have big disclaimers saying "NO ROLE BONUSES" which makes me think the OTHER suits do have role bonuses. (Like ships in eve might have 5% medium projectile damage per level of Minmatar Cruiser). However I don't see these anywhere. Are they not in yet?
Speaking of the market...in EVE everything on the market is player made. Is this the case in DUST? Is it player made in dust or is all the stuff made in EVE and sold in Dust? (This could be problematic, I think, as 2 million isk in EVE is peanuts (hooray i shot one rat) and in Dust it seems like a big deal). Is there any way to get into the market as a trader/industrialist like you can in EVE?
I whipped up an Amarr Heavy suit with an armor plate to see how it compared to my caldari suit. I had tons more HP, but died in about the same time. Sadly, with an armor plate, I couldn't also equip an armor repairer, which meant after one fight I was kinda in trouble. I couldn't figure out how to repair my own armor at any terminals or anything. Supposedly there are things you can drop/deploy that will repair armor? I don't think the Amarr Heavy Militia suit has any of those slots though.
I also kind of figured out the meta level tier system. Triangle means its better stuff than mine, x means it's much better stuff than mine. This makes me feel less bad when I get mowed down and look and see the guy was using top meta level guns and suits. He's using the absolute best stuff, I'm using the absolute worst, I probably *should* lose that fight!
How do you buy BPO's? I have one of an exile assault rifle and one of a gallente skinweave light drop suit? It seems like in the long run it would save money to buy BPO's of your most commonly used modules / suits as opposed to buying new ones every time. |
RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
630
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 16:58:00 -
[58] - Quote
I hope all new players read this. This is how you bi*ch. Constructive criticism can create change. You have voices...use them. But do it in a way that gives the developer concise feedback and isn't just a bunch of whining and threats to leave and go play something else.
Every new player who is having a poor experience should create a post like this. |
Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1047
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:10:00 -
[59] - Quote
vilstan wrote:I spent a lot of time yesterday looking at the market. I bought a big stack of all the militia stuff so I could try out different things. I also think I'm getting better at being able to tell the different suit types apart.
Also, is it my imagination, or do the MCC's also look a little different depending on empire?
It seems like the only heavy suit is the Amarr one, and Amarr has no light while the others do. And everyone gets a medium suit. At least at the militia level.
Now, the militia suits (and I think the first level of basic ones) have big disclaimers saying "NO ROLE BONUSES" which makes me think the OTHER suits do have role bonuses. (Like ships in eve might have 5% medium projectile damage per level of Minmatar Cruiser). However I don't see these anywhere. Are they not in yet?
Speaking of the market...in EVE everything on the market is player made. Is this the case in DUST? Is it player made in dust or is all the stuff made in EVE and sold in Dust? (This could be problematic, I think, as 2 million isk in EVE is peanuts (hooray i shot one rat) and in Dust it seems like a big deal). Is there any way to get into the market as a trader/industrialist like you can in EVE?
I whipped up an Amarr Heavy suit with an armor plate to see how it compared to my caldari suit. I had tons more HP, but died in about the same time. Sadly, with an armor plate, I couldn't also equip an armor repairer, which meant after one fight I was kinda in trouble. I couldn't figure out how to repair my own armor at any terminals or anything. Supposedly there are things you can drop/deploy that will repair armor? I don't think the Amarr Heavy Militia suit has any of those slots though.
I also kind of figured out the meta level tier system. Triangle means its better stuff than mine, x means it's much better stuff than mine. This makes me feel less bad when I get mowed down and look and see the guy was using top meta level guns and suits. He's using the absolute best stuff, I'm using the absolute worst, I probably *should* lose that fight!
How do you buy BPO's? I have one of an exile assault rifle and one of a gallente skinweave light drop suit? It seems like in the long run it would save money to buy BPO's of your most commonly used modules / suits as opposed to buying new ones every time.
I'll try and answer some of these questions in each paragraph.
MCCs: Yes every race should have its own MCC. The ones for Minmatar and Amarr are to be added though so they usually get the variant of their allied faction.
Suits: Almost. Caldari lacks their light suit aswell. Other than that you got it right.
Skillbonuses: Yep non MLT(militia) suits have racial and/or role bonuses attached to them. You can look them up on the respective skill in the tree, as opposed to the suit itself like in EVE.
Market: No. Everything is seeded at a fixed price and thus is not manufactured or influenced by market dynamics. A secondary player market is in the works though and manufacturing should follow eventually. Relevant skills and UI a yet to be implemented.
Armor and quick death: There's currently a general consensus that the TTK(time to kill [an enemy]) is very low and that this limits the usefulness of large eHP pools. People tend to fit dmg mods because of it which, incidentally, worsenes the problem.
Meta LVL: The meta system is pretty much carried over with the exception that the differences between certain meta "blocks" are much more pronounced than in eve. An ADV(advanced, or triangle) mod can easily be 50% stronger than the STD(standard) version.
BPOs: CCP has almost finished removing BPOs from being purchasable since they believe that they are not compatible with the future prospect of a merging of the EVE/Dust economies. Have a read here for why i doubt that BPO have ever been a fiscally sensible choice for players and this follow-up by Cross Atu arguing that BPOs are more a psychological thing, rather than about saving ISK.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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4447
Resolution XIII
902
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 17:22:00 -
[60] - Quote
vilstan wrote:I'll preface this by saying that I'm sure people are going to refer back to the famously steep learning curve and harsh unwelcoming environment of EVE. That works for EVE. I love EVE, and the unforgiving and risky environment is part of what makes it great. But there is a key distinction - there is no other game like EVE. If you want to play anything like EVE, there is EVE, and only EVE. If it has warts and faults you have to put up with them.
Not so for Dust. If I want to play a scifi fps...I have unbelievable amounts of options. I chose to give Dust a try because I really love EVE and want to love Dust as well. However it doesn't seem to love me back. As an FPS, it seems to be distinctly mediocre and suffer many glaring faults.
1) The new player experience is pretty horrific. Not *quite* as bad as the new player experience in Planetside 2, where they just hurled you into the middle of a massive firefight as the very first thing in the game. My first kill there was a friendly medic who was wearing camo and healing me and I had no idea what was going on. It's not quite that bad here, but it's pretty bad. You have no idea what's going on, what you are supposed to be doing, how to not die over and over instantly. I know how fittings work from EVE, but scanning seems pretty important and is never explained anywhere. Sometimes you'll unload an entire clip into a guy, he'll casually turn and kill you. Othertimes you drop someone in 3 bullets. It all seems wildly inconsistent. New players can't learn if they can't tell what is going on. The information conveyed by the death screen in PS2 is pretty bad and I feel like this one is even less informative.
2) Spawn camping. Most games seem to go out of their way to prevent spawn camping. This game downright encourages it! Part of that is the way the different spawn options work, and I understand why they have done it the way they have, but a new player isn't really going to figure that out. All he's going to know is he keeps spawning and then getting instantly mowed down. Maybe some sort of visual indicator of 'safe' spawn points vs non safe spawn points?
3) Orbital strike. Thematic, yes. Gameplay wise, I think it's horrible. Particularly as people seem to like to drop it on spawn points. Plus, roofs don't seem to protect you.(?)
4) Matchmaking: Atrociously bad. There are almost no close fights, it's almost all hilarious one sided blowouts. Usually there's a couple guys running around from the same corp going 12/0, 16/1 or whatever, and everyone on the other team is like 2/8 or something. Sometimes you're on the team with the miracle crew, sometimes you're not. Either way, the success or defeat is pretty much pre determined for you by the matchmaker and your actions have no impact
5) Extremely poorly explained victory conditions: one match where there were no amazing 20/0 killers just wiping everyone out, it was a close match. Our MMC was very close to death, theirs was a little farther away. With a heroic effort, we managed to capture ALL the null cannons! And there was much rejoicing. Now we just have to ferociously defend them for a few more seconds until their MMC dies and..oh wait, what? Our MMC just blew up anyway? But there are no null cannons shooting at it! This wouldn't be a big deal if the game weren't full of moments telling you that what you are doing doesn't matter
6) You feel you aren't having any kind of impact at all and that what you are doing barely matters. Ok, so we're anonymous mercenaries doing whatever we want.. That's nice, but when one day I'm fighting for the Gallente in FW and the next day I'm fighting against them in FW, it really makes me not care a bit about the way the match actually ends and mostly about my own performance in it. And even your own payout seems to be mostly divorced from your actual performance. I seem to get about the same amount as when I own it up and kill 10 people and we win and I suck horribly and die 10 times and we lose. Your allies one match might be your enemies the next. One minute you're fighting at this end of the Universe the next you're fighting at the other end. Shrug. It all feels very ephemeral and pointless.
Contrast this to Planetside 2, where you are locked into one faction, the other factions are your hated rivals, you will come to trust and rely on other people in your faction and hate and watch out for other people in the other faction. At any moment, you can pop open the map and see how well 'your' faction is doing. You can organize with hundreds of other players from your faction and spend the whole day slowly sweeping across the map and turning it all blue. Each fight is a necessary stepping stone to the next fight, not a random disconnected pointless skirmish in the middle of nowhere. There is an ongoing war and at any moment you can see how it is going and you know your part in it.
(more below, apparently there is a fairly low character limit?)
This is why i love DUST 514, It's hard, It's broken. I love it and love the journey i go with it on the Buffs and nerfs.
Troll, For lifeGǪ But maybe a dragon, uh a bigger dragon.
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