Yah, stuff like that bugs me too.

But my in-game mail frequently has a few angry, insulting messages from my victims in it.


Munch

Dude... don't give me the Sniper wishful thinking rant.. I've heard it 1000x... You wish you could single handedly defend an objective. You wish you could pop an enemy's head off just as he's about to kill your teammate, being a hero... you wish you could earn enough kills to balance out the bottom half of your team... you wish all of that BUT YOU CAN'T... I've never seen it, witnessed it, or even heard about...

A sniper gets about 1 key shot every game, if they are lucky, that's it. All you do is kill Scouts and Starter Fits, and coutnersnipe the other useless snipers on the other team.

DUST 514 Fact: The team with the most snipers, LOSES everytime.

Well, when you actually contribute to a match more than just aggravating the other team, let me know. When matches can be won by the amount of hatemail you receive let me know.

Yes, snipers p*ss people off... but they don't contribute to games, EVER. Not once has a game been decided by which ever team had the better snipers. Because they are 1 dimensional roles that teams can do with, or without.

Snipers are just selfish players who only care about their own KD. Look at the leaderboards, look at the highest KDs in the game. They are all snipers... then look at their win/loss ratios...

I've been playing this game for quite a while, and have NEVER seen a sniper make a difference in a game, or be a game changer. Not once. Out the 100,000s of matches I have played.

im sorry but i beg to differ, i have been on squads with snipers, and they provide fire support as well as enemy locations, one time me as a scout captured a null cannon alone vs 7 enemies thanks to that sniper that gave me info and killed 3 of them, i agree with you on the redline snipers, and GOOD snipers can kill target enemies that are destroying your team

It took 3 people to capture a NULL cannon against 7 enemies? I do that by myself at least once a game, without my squad even aware where I am during it. I'll here my squad say "a blueberry hacked Alpha, cool." That blueberry was ME by myself.

Or when I say, "okay, I can't hold Delta anymore..." and my squad leader will say "why are you at Delta?" and I'll say "I've been holding it off against 8 guys for the last 5 minutes by myself. They finally got me."

You tell 'em buddy. Get the sniper community really riled up. But if you do **** them off, stay out of faction warfare. They might just start tagging you to keep your shields and armor low so you'll be easy pickings for the enemy team. I'd probably pay to watch that. LOL

I was playing around tonight and noticed two things that sort of tie into one another.
Since CCP's new Executive Producer wanted to "turn up the action", I noticed something in Ambush OMS games and it ties to an earlier thought I had about redline sniping.

First things first: Redline Snipers.
You know when you play basketball, and if you shoot the ball and goes into the basket, but your foot stepped out of bounds, the shot doesn't count? Why would a sniper be allowed to sit out of bounds and still get rewarded with doing damage?

Now, I'm not venting about it. In fact, snipers are MEANINGLESS in this game. They don't contribute, even in Ambush game modes. Snipers can b*tch all they want about that, but face facts; snipers make no impact on games other than being nuisances. If I get killed by one, I really don't care, because its only one death and it won't happen again.

These maps are plenty big enough where the sniper can still have major distance without being out of bounds in the red zone.

How this ties into tighter maps: Shrinking games?
In all the Ambush OMS games I played tonight, as I looked over the map before i spawned in I noticed how small the space was. We were playing OMS in standard Ambush spaces, and Turrets even dropped. I am wondering if this is one of CCPs attempts to turn up the action? Because all those Ambush games were over in 5 minutes, just like a standard Ambush game would be, because the time between kill waves is tighter because of the tighter maps.

If this is the case, then smaller maps will hurt snipers in this game and render them to Call of Duty type of playstyles because you can't get enough distance between you and the enemy. But at the same time, I had good Shotgun performances tonight because of the tighter maps. I suppose tighter OMS games wouldn't be a bad thing, as long as the large games stay in the rotation as well.

Well, when you actually contribute to a match more than just aggravating the other team, let me know. When matches can be won by the amount of hatemail you receive let me know.

Yes, snipers p*ss people off... but they don't contribute to games, EVER. Not once has a game been decided by which ever team had the better snipers. Because they are 1 dimensional roles that teams can do with, or without.

Snipers are just selfish players who only care about their own KD. Look at the leaderboards, look at the highest KDs in the game. They are all snipers... then look at their win/loss ratios...

I've been playing this game for quite a while, and have NEVER seen a sniper make a difference in a game, or be a game changer. Not once. Out the 100,000s of matches I have played.

You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Then you dont deserve to Dust or be able to lick CCP's left *** cheek if you NEVER have seen a sniper make a difference in a game in the 100,000's of matches you played. Also stfu about snipers and K/D. It's all about being able to even use your fit in the first place whether it's pure in-game isk, AUR, or loyalty. Plus with all the tankers and sad excuses of tankers, people with OP ranged weapons and Active scanners that ARE trying to pad their K/D out there; there will be an over excess of new snipers that sit in the red line JUST to get away from all the BS that people like you want us (not talking about me or any other snipers like me) to be a part of. Plus don't even try to sound like your the "glamorus" assault, frontline grunt that has ever been added to Dust when i've seen you personally wear FOTM and run around acting llike your the **** just because of your suit/ weapon you used. Also while i'm at it.... doesn't it **** with your brain and psyche when you know if you go a certain way or into a certain area of the map on any game that you'll be pecked or killed by a sniper? Or how about since us snipers have had a set DPS since life on New Eden we get compensation for it just like all of the AR's and new variations of it with the ability to hit anyone with 500+ damage in a few seconds? I don't know like a damage BUFF or at least give every sniper the zoom of a Thale's TAR 07' Sniper Rifle (I put the whole name for a reason) just because your OP rifles keep getting better and better. Oh wait!! That's too unreasonable because the grunts are getting mad that their getting shot from somewhere that they have to RUN to shoot their next victim. I mean seriously how mad can you get when a "Redline Sniper" (don't care if they were there all game or not) stops red berries from going a certain way just so you grunts can continue stockpiling your kills that... wait for it... YOU grunts are so happy about because that means... wait again you can redline them!! Just like you always want to happen so you can get your precious SP which help EVERYONE out.

Now, I'm not venting about it. In fact, snipers are MEANINGLESS in this game. They don't contribute, even in Ambush game modes. Snipers can b*tch all they want about that, but face facts; snipers make no impact on games other than being nuisances.

Then you dont deserve to Dust or be able to lick CCP's left *** cheek if you NEVER have seen a sniper make a difference in a game in the 100,000's of matches you played. Also stfu about snipers and K/D. It's all about being able to even use your fit in the first place whether it's pure in-game isk, AUR, or loyalty. Plus with all the tankers and sad excuses of tankers, people with OP ranged weapons and Active scanners that ARE trying to pad their K/D out there; there will be an over excess of new snipers that sit in the red line JUST to get away from all the BS that people like you want us (not talking about me or any other snipers like me) to be a part of. Plus don't even try to sound like your the "glamorus" assault, frontline grunt that has ever been added to Dust when i've seen you personally wear FOTM and run around acting llike your the **** just because of your suit/ weapon you used. Also while i'm at it.... doesn't it **** with your brain and psyche when you know if you go a certain way or into a certain area of the map on any game that you'll be pecked or killed by a sniper? Or how about since us snipers have had a set DPS since life on New Eden we get compensation for it just like all of the AR's and new variations of it with the ability to hit anyone with 500+ damage in a few seconds? I don't know like a damage BUFF or at least give every sniper the zoom of a Thale's TAR 07' Sniper Rifle (I put the whole name for a reason) just because your OP rifles keep getting better and better. Oh wait!! That's too unreasonable because the grunts are getting mad that their getting shot from somewhere that they have to RUN to shoot their next victim. I mean seriously how mad can you get when a "Redline Sniper" (don't care if they were there all game or not) stops red berries from going a certain way just so you grunts can continue stockpiling your kills that... wait for it... YOU grunts are so happy about because that means... wait again you can redline them!! Just like you always want to happen so you can get your precious SP which help EVERYONE out.

All of what you said has been noted elsewhere in the thread. Im planning proper sniper research soon. I want to dive into your world and hopefully learn something.

But my DUST career has been as follows:
Scout SG
Caldari Shield tank assault w/ AR
Tanking (before 1.7)
Currently Amarr (Assault/SCR combo) fighting for Caldari mostly
Next I will be Forge Gunning (currently at lvl 4)

So, what FoTM have you seen me use? I don't even think I own any FoTM gear, especially at the time of the FoTM.

Its really all I want to address about your post.

Lol to all the snipers u guys are camping turds no matter if u get 1 kill or 100
No 1 gives two fucks go back to sleep.

If you want to hear a scout say they were the hero of a battle once, I'll tell you a true story:

Both teams had about 1/4 of their MCC HP left. My team had just hacked an objective that would put the null cannon count in our favor 3-2. I killed a counter hacker, and then another, and then another. In my Minnie Scout.

Cool. That's great and I'm glad a scoutbro can contribute like that.

On a similar note: I do that dozens of times each week. All dedicated snipers do.

On another note: You can take the redline away OP but I want the sniper rifle damage and ranges to be scaled properly. Give me accurate long range rendering. This means making sniper scopes much, much better. With a proper scope, your body will fill my scope at 500m.

In real life, an average sniper should be able to kill reliably out to 1000m. The best that I'm aware of was a Canadian who killed a Taliban guy at 2430m. Master Corporal Rob Furlong of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry.

I'll be happy if I can sit back 1000m and harvest skulls. Trust me, you won't want to walk that far to get me. You'll just get tired and I'll have moved on anyway.


Munch

I like that proposition and how do you get the words on the bottom of all of your comments?
I mean the dedicated sniper part

All of what you said has been noted elsewhere in the thread. Im planning proper sniper research soon. I want to dive into your world and hopefully learn something.

I am a Sniper. If the map calls for it. If it doesnt, I run Logi or Assault... haven't really gotten a feel for the scout or heavy yet, but I do both from time to time.

If Objective C is tightly overrun with red dots, and is in a position of high cover I might spawn in an HMG. If there are no uplinks on the bridge I might spawn in a Logi and try to open the gates as it were. If B is a mess, and uplinks aren't an issue i might spawn in my min assault.

I am average, maybe a little better in CQC, but I do it all the time...

And if a bunch of red dots drop uplinks in the open... if the map is suited to sniping... If ive died 6 times already to proto stomping badasses... if we are losing but the clone count of the enemy is in the teens... If there are 5 tanks killing everything wholesale, and my squad needs a competant spotter... Or if i just plain feel like it.... I snipe.

***** all you want about the snipers in the redline killing you, that's your right. Maybe you haven't noticed that guys on your side are doing it too. Guess what, sometimes it takes a sniper to kill a sniper. I do it all the time. You can ask anyone that's played with me in squad, if someone says "Sniper!" my first word is "Where?" and i will hunt the guy down. I think this is probably happening more than you realize.

Sure I have ridiculous matches where i kill in the high 20's, but most times I get a lot less kills sniping because I'm taking my job seriously. I will ignore the easy shots to put 3-4 charge shots into a FG sniping Heavy with 1500 HP. I will chase a sniper into his own redline and kill him with my SMG if i need to. I move all over the place because once you find me i'm dead. I pay 47k for a rifle because I must. The "Covenant" just doesn't get the job done... And all those Assists... that's cause i just made the difference between you... the assault ...killing the guy that was about to tear you down in a one on one.

I don't own a Thales, just havent been lucky enough to get one yet. If I do, I'll probably use them from the redline...

Your welcome.

Cool. That's great and I'm glad a scoutbro can contribute like that.

On a similar note: I do that dozens of times each week. All dedicated snipers do.

On another note: You can take the redline away OP but I want the sniper rifle damage and ranges to be scaled properly. Give me accurate long range rendering. This means making sniper scopes much, much better. With a proper scope, your body will fill my scope at 500m.

In real life, an average sniper should be able to kill reliably out to 1000m. The best that I'm aware of was a Canadian who killed a Taliban guy at 2430m. Master Corporal Rob Furlong of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry.

I'll be happy if I can sit back 1000m and harvest skulls. Trust me, you won't want to walk that far to get me. You'll just get tired and I'll have moved on anyway.


Munch

What is it about you guys that you all assume everyone is an AR user? Or better yet, I get accused of being an AR Wh0re on this board all the time; like its an insult...

Newflash: I DO NOT USE THE AR!! Not everyone is convinced that's the only way to play this game (although I'll probably convert sooner than later)


I'll still take those meat shields on my team, because they can:

-hack objectives
-get more kills cause they aren't restricted to one side of a map
-farm WP by being a Logi

all sniper think about is their KD, because its the only stat they have that's impressive. Yet all the highest KDs in the game have the worst Win/loss percentages I have ever seen...
when DUST has a game mode that rewards you team with winning by having the single best KD on the team, then I'll consider sniping more relevant.
Sitting there and averaging 1 kill per minute isn't really doing anything...

Let's not get carried away here. Snipers in dust already have an easy time because their sci-fi sniper rifles don't suffer from bullet drop but rather go in a completely straight line regardless of range.

Hitting a target at 1000 meters away requires some serious compensation for wind and bullet-drop for real world snipers, so unless you're gonna be forced to deal with that, then getting even more range with the SR will end up in the realm of OP.

Well, there's bullet drop compensation, wind compensation, vehicles that right themselves, vehicles that take no damage when they flip, drivers that take no damage when their vehicles flip, inertia dampeners that slow me down in mid-air, scanners that reveal enemy positions through a bunch of walls, nanohives that automatically repair me, nanohives that produce ammunition from ... nothing, drop uplinks that automatically spawn me at some place, dropsuits that repair themselves, transferring dead souls to new clones, faster than light travel and other serious violations of the basic laws of general and special relativity, thermodynamics and common sense.

There are arm-waving explanations for it all, including the super sophisticated HUD and aiming system that is in my sniper helmet. It compensates for target position and speed as well as wind speed, humidity and other stuff. It does all the math for me. I position myself as best I can and pull the trigger. Sometimes the math is a bit off, I move a bit or my aim simply isn't fast enough to compensate for the fast-changing calculations and I miss.

What the heck is your point?

Get off my cloud, man. It's a science-fukking-fiction game.


Munch

Let's not get carried away here. Snipers in dust already have an easy time because their sci-fi sniper rifles don't suffer from bullet drop but rather go in a completely straight line regardless of range.

Hitting a target at 1000 meters away requires some serious compensation for wind and bullet-drop for real world snipers, so unless you're gonna be forced to deal with that, then getting even more range with the SR will end up in the realm of OP.