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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
40
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Posted - 2013.10.21 19:10:00 -
[91] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:Regis Blackbird wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Do NOT lock BPO trade please. I know BPOs are bad for the economy, but trading won't increase the amount of BPOs in the game, so there is no point on BPO trade restrictions. BPO trade restrictions would only serve to massively inconvenience us. This is not true for the reason I stated in my previous post. You only need x1 BPO. If you have x8 BPOs of the same type it can be regarded as x1, since you can't use or trade the rest (currently). If you could trade these freely, there would be x7 more people running around using your old BPOs, thus effectively increasing the "amount of BPOs" dramatically. And that's exactly why they should be player locked. I don't have a use for all those extra Dragonfly Scout suits sitting in my inventory, but I understand it could be a huge problem spreading them around the community. The only other thing I can think of would be to lock them still, but offer some sort of voluntary BPO trade-in program. Say, trading BPOs for FW LP? Then you get the community to voluntarily destroy the BPOs themselves.
We think alike https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1413172#post1413172 |
Bucktooth Badger
Buck's Intergalactic Pawn Shop
107
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Posted - 2013.10.21 19:12:00 -
[92] - Quote
The annoying thing is this could have all been resolved many moons ago with a refund at release (or switch from closed to open beta, I forget which) that was originally suggested but withdrawn as a few might make a few extra AUR profit, instead we're 5 months down the line, loads more BPOs sold & even, as someone else has mentioned, a massive encouragement campaign by CCP to purchase more BPOs before they're removed. You've dug yourself a hole with a friggin bulldozer here guys!:-)
With regard to the current state of the BPOs, I will admit that I am the epitome of everything that CCP hate about them. I bought 100+ when they were cheap in preparation for player trading & they're my primary fit for instant battles. They're my primary fit, so I can save up ISK to fund my FW addiction, being the payouts are so measly - it's expensive business running advanced/proto logi fits to help the federation.:-)
My first choice, is of course playing trading & the ability to sell our BPOs, but if that isn't going to happen & complete removal is the choice then...
In the vastness of the data files this game creates, do you keep a record of original purchase price of items for players? If so, how about the playerbase receives a refund for all BPOs at their original purchase price, and for those we received as rewards, part of Merc packs etc we receive 30 day Omega Boosters as compensation for their removal? At least then you won't have people with obscene amounts of AUR (;-)) & in the long term we all go back to consumables.:-)
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2295
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Posted - 2013.10.21 19:19:00 -
[93] - Quote
If all those dragonfly suits AR's and Toxin SMG's get out it would be a sizable population.
Still, I spent real money on them in Merc packs so they shouldn't be neutralized in value and left to rot in my inventory. So I'd be willing to turn in my extras for Aurum compensation.
That would be a way to keep the effect of BPO's to a minimum. If we actually get a sizable population increase the number of BPOs in the universe will be a small percentage of items used and therefore they won't be destabilizing.
As more and more BPO owners get substantial SP they will probably use them less and less.
If they meant to completely eliminate BPOs they should have just pulled them from the market with no big announcement. All that did was tell everyone to stock up now. Of course that is the fair thing to do if you are going to leave them alone, then you can say you gave everyone here the chance to grab them if they wanted them.
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OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
920
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 19:25:00 -
[94] - Quote
I want the novelty of my dragonfly an toxin, suits that the new guys don't have, for some reason I have no quaffe or black eagle suits so I want to keep what I have, either way until they solve this I'm not gonna use anything else but bpo suits. |
Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet Top Men.
158
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Posted - 2013.10.21 19:30:00 -
[95] - Quote
The more I think about it, I feel like a voluntary conversion to something of value (boosters, AUR sum) is the only way to please both the Dust market and the players who were encouraged by CCP to stock up on extras. Code in some dialog for each BPO that will let you convert at any time if you want and soulbind them.
It's a ****** situation, but it's one CCP made for itself and customers should not be made to pay for their mistake. I know I will be more hesitant to spend in the future because of this, no matter how CCP decides to nerf BPOs. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2295
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 19:37:00 -
[96] - Quote
Sigberct Amni wrote:The more I think about it, I feel like a voluntary conversion to something of value (boosters, AUR sum) is the only way to please both the Dust market and the players who were encouraged by CCP to stock up on extras. Code in some dialog for each BPO that will let you convert at any time if you want and soulbind them.
It's a ****** situation, but it's one CCP made for itself and customers should not be made to pay for their mistake. I know I will be more hesitant to spend in the future because of this, no matter how CCP decides to nerf BPOs.
Don't make the option obnoxious. I'm keeping one full set of everything and I don't want to be asked every time I use one. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
532
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 19:41:00 -
[97] - Quote
Back when the redeemable items window was limited to (I think) 20 items and people (myself included) began losing items that were being issued for participating in events I straight away assigned all my items to my main character so they had room to give me my stuff.
This combined with the fact that second and third character slots are rendered redundant by the free2play and the free PSN account and the passive sp gain restriction to 1 character making it not worth creating a second character, but instead creating a second PSN account.
And the fact that the Merc pack was the most economical method of buying boosters over the straight AUR packs, since you got a 30 day booster and enough AUR to buy (I think it was) 5 weeks of further boosters.
Leaves us with a situation where I (and I'm sure many others) have multiples of Exiles, Toxins, Skinweave sets, Dragonflies, I know people have multiple MAG sets from stocking up on boosters during that weekend and I don't doubt the list goes on with other 'event prize / Merc Pack bundle' BPOs.
If these aren't tradeable or at the VERY least donateable to corp hangers for new player recruits to make use of.
That's all related to them working in their current state, which CCP have said isn't good for the game, so all this about locking them to characters is the wrong topic to be discussed ... BPOs are blueprint originals ... a blueprint is a set of instructions that tell you how to make something ... it is not a box set of build your own IKEA bookshelf, there are no panels, no shelves, no stupid little jointing screws and no glue (ohh wait IKEA doesn't provide glue ... maybe their stuff would last more than 6 months if they did, but I digress).
BPOs should be used with materials to install a manufacture job in your NPC station (as they do in Eve) ... you find or buy the materials off the market ... an NPC haulage corp can move them to your station at a small cost if you have no Eve access ... and you install the job, come back in 17 hours 24 minutes and 51 seconds and hey presto you have a batch of 100 Exiles for the low low cost of a few hundred isks worth of materials that you can use or sell on the market to others for a profit.
That's how BPOs need to work ... then there will be no need to lock them to characters, since they will be just the same as Eve BPOs and will be of value to those that want to skill into manufacture. |
Vee Abbey
Three-body Solution
22
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Posted - 2013.10.21 19:41:00 -
[98] - Quote
I wish to trade it freely. Locking it to one character when you could trade it with others or at least between my characters is cheap I expect more from you CCP, not SOON TM, right now.
On switching them for same value AUR or items:
I payed for a BPO the description said "permanent"
end of discussion. |
Nirwanda Vaughns
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
117
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Posted - 2013.10.21 19:41:00 -
[99] - Quote
As i said in my previous post in this thread.
simply make the bpos work as they do in eve. allow us to buy and sell the ones we want for isk and tie the resources we need into PvE Drone infestation where we are rewarded materials to build the bpo items and use them, people who want to run 'free' suits can do so by running a few hours of PvE to stock up their suits but they are still consumable but you have to work for them a little and have the manufacture time so you have to wait for them to build as you do in eve. if you make it that you can build 20 suits a day then it doesn't damage the economy as much. even those who have multiple copies of the mag suits or covenant ect cant over do it. eventually the suits could be sold for isk which in turn helps us run proto and advanced gear and vehicles thus turns into an isk sink but helps with the limited income we get from grinding pub matches |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1638
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 19:50:00 -
[100] - Quote
The only reason BPOs don't work with the current iteration of DUST is because the game isn't finished. The BPO/BPC concept will work fine once something has to go into the process to use that blueprint to generate a useable item.
The blueprint, whether original or a limited-run copy, is a license from the original designer to print the item. Because the game is not finished the entire cost to use is now wrapped up in the license instead of including the materials necessary to print the item. The simplest solution is to add a material cost to get a copy. Eventually, we'll need to deliver a stockpile of that material inside our CRUs and supply depots to the battlefield. If the enemy hacks or destroys those items then we lose that material.
For instant battles or even faction warfare that doesn't work (do I have to say it... because the game isn't finished). So, CCP could change the current system to retain BPOs and BPCs but indicate the material cost necessary for the item.
Let's say an Assault Rifle BPC costs 1,000 ISK and the materials necessary for it cost 1,000 ISK. During the battle the player needs to 'print' another suit because he died. The contract provider has also provided the MCC, CRUs and other deployable items. The provider then deducts 1,000 ISK from the mercenary for the cost of providing that rifle. If the mercenary owned a BPO of the rifle they pay 1,000 ISK per unit used. If they don't then they need to purchase licenses for however many they would like to have available.
For future iterations of PC battles there should be no printing costs since the corporations will need to provide the entire infrastructure on the battlefield, including the base material needed to create equipment. |
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Aran Abbas
Goonfeet Top Men.
291
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Posted - 2013.10.21 20:08:00 -
[101] - Quote
In the world of New Eden, everything should be tradeable. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2295
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 20:09:00 -
[102] - Quote
Nirwanda Vaughns wrote:As i said in my previous post in this thread.
simply make the bpos work as they do in eve. allow us to buy and sell the ones we want for isk and tie the resources we need into PvE Drone infestation where we are rewarded materials to build the bpo items and use them, people who want to run 'free' suits can do so by running a few hours of PvE to stock up their suits but they are still consumable but you have to work for them a little and have the manufacture time so you have to wait for them to build as you do in eve. if you make it that you can build 20 suits a day then it doesn't damage the economy as much. even those who have multiple copies of the mag suits or covenant ect cant over do it. eventually the suits could be sold for isk which in turn helps us run proto and advanced gear and vehicles thus turns into an isk sink but helps with the limited income we get from grinding pub matches
As the post below yours makes clear, EVE manufacturing won't be possible as we use point of clone manufacturing.
Nobody carries a stack of 100 rifles, 30 scrambler pistols, 50 HMG's, etc. around with them. We make items one at a time at the point of sale.
As such you could charge for materials, but that should be a fraction of the license cost. Intellectual property is the main expense. So a 1k ISK copy would be made up of 950 ISK in license and 50 ISK of materials. |
OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
920
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 20:11:00 -
[103] - Quote
I'd be willing to trade extra bpos to ccp for omega boosters one per bpo BUT ONLY IF I CAN KEEP ONE OF EACH! |
Aqua-Regia
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
448
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 20:17:00 -
[104] - Quote
Make it like Eve tradeable because if I can't sell it ****.
I'm just going to stop just stop playing this game. |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
629
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 20:50:00 -
[105] - Quote
BPOs in EVE require you to mine/manufactre/buy ingredient components statetd on the BOM list. Then you have to pay for manufacture job if you don't posses your own infrastructure to do so. In the end it still cost some ISK or game time (read $$$) to produce your items out of BPOs. It still costs less than buying ready made items out of market. And you can sell improved copies of BPOs as BPCs.
Leave those BPOs as they are now. Until you introduce full market functionality and integration with EVE and industry into DUST. Then you may make BPOs to cost some ISK to use. And "fix" them ...if you think they are broken now.
What you have done (i hope unintentionally) by removing BPOs out of market and threatened us to remove them from AUR packs is called a manipulation. It will make people to stampede PSN store to buy those packs while they still contain BPOs. I wonder how many of us decided to buy all BPOs from market few days before October 8th... I smell fish. But i agree we have to earn money to keep our bodies alive... That's life... |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
263
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 21:00:00 -
[106] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:The reason why BPOs aren't working as intended is they are having a large negative impact on the ingame economy. For the economy to function properly, items need to be consumed in battle. With BPOs, no items are consumed, which breaks this fundamental requirement.
As far as trading of BPOs, that's not decided yet. I will be taking your feedback though. We'll let you know when we come to a decision.
BPOs are in one way, a form of ISK farming. A person chooses to run with lesser gear, and potentially get less WP (which means less SP), in order to maximize their ISK return.
Its impossible to completely remove ISK farming, with out radically changing the battle reward system.
After all, a new person right now, can simply drop into a game, and DO NOTHING. The "nothing" can be either as dumb as hiding in the MCC, or fancy, by such means as flying around in a dropship, in protected space.
Either way, they get "less SP" than they might otherwise have gottten.. but they're out 0 ISK, and get a chunka change in ISK back.
And of course then there's the "free BPOs" that you give to everyone: the starter fits. They can zerg stuff with the 100% free frontine, get a few kills (particularly with the free grenades)... and again, be out 0 ISK, but get a chunka change back.
And people can do some serious damage this way, if they're skilled up. AR profieciency 5, sharpshooter 5, anyone? Gaaahhhh...
So: Are you gonna take away free starter fits, and battle rewards for doinhg nothing? I doin't think so. Therefore CCP, you either need to rethink your "requirements"... or you may as well bring back the militia BPOs.
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Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1695
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 21:03:00 -
[107] - Quote
To CCP:
You could offer a reasonable sum of AUR or ISK through a "buyback" effort. Mercs will readily part with the BPOs they don't use, so you'll have fewer BPOs in circulation.
Glad to hear you aren't taking BPOs from player inventories. You could nerf bat them to discourage use, but that'd be plain dirty.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
264
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 21:22:00 -
[108] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:To CCP:
You could offer a reasonable sum of AUR or ISK through a "buyback" effort. Mercs will readily part with the BPOs they don't use, so you'll have fewer BPOs in circulation.
Err.. CCP has no motivation to do that. Their claimed issue, is with the BPOs that people are actually using.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
442
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 21:45:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:The reason why BPOs aren't working as intended is they are having a large negative impact on the ingame economy. For the economy to function properly, items need to be consumed in battle. With BPOs, no items are consumed, which breaks this fundamental requirement.
As far as trading of BPOs, that's not decided yet. I will be taking your feedback though. We'll let you know when we come to a decision.
what about this:
you allow players to run off copies from a bpo. the bpo itself is not a suit. to produce your copies you have to pay "x" amount of isk per suit/item which is substantially less than the isk variants. all your bpo's can be listed on the market in a new menu and you just run them off from that menu.
isk is being lost, and bpo owners are still saving isk.
thats a compromise i would be willing to accept but the isk cost has to be at a level to make them worth while |
Guilbert 515
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
18
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Posted - 2013.10.21 21:53:00 -
[110] - Quote
I dont get the point of the whole discussion. Why would using BPOs hurt the ingame economy? Are you talking about the rewards given out in a battle or the trade of items on the future market? Be specific CCP. Why wasnt that thought of pre release? All BPOs are standard anyways. We didnt even get to tech 2 stuff. Is it cause nobody wants to spend RL money or Aurum on standard bpcs? I dont get it. |
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bauloe reporter
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
2
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Posted - 2013.10.21 22:00:00 -
[111] - Quote
An Idea is to make these BPO - much like Eve BPO, give them a component cost. to build. - For now it may be an isk or Aurum value, but in the future allow them to be traded to Eve Players for making this unit, or require a certain salvage to be required off the battle field.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4635
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 22:07:00 -
[112] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:To CCP:
You could offer a reasonable sum of AUR or ISK through a "buyback" effort. Mercs will readily part with the BPOs they don't use, so you'll have fewer BPOs in circulation.
Not gonna happen.
Too many players back in closed beta purchased hundreds of BPOs for dirt cheap (100 AURUM +/-50) and then later on CCP jacked up the prices to as much as 12,000 AUR a piece. A closed beta player who spent 50,000 AUR to get 500 BPOs will be in a position to gain 500,000 AURUM with 450,000 of that amount coming from thin air (no cash input for CCP). That is the equivalent of the US Mint printing out trillions of dollars and then handing them out for free to anyone who walks by. It will completely devalue the AURUM itself and cause a massive influx of players proto-stomping in AURUM gear for a very long time. |
Aqua-Regia
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
451
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 22:10:00 -
[113] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:The reason why BPOs aren't working as intended is they are having a large negative impact on the ingame economy. For the economy to function properly, items need to be consumed in battle. With BPOs, no items are consumed, which breaks this fundamental requirement.
As far as trading of BPOs, that's not decided yet. I will be taking your feedback though. We'll let you know when we come to a decision. what about this: you allow players to run off copies from a bpo. the bpo itself is not a suit. to produce your copies you have to pay "x" amount of isk per suit/item which is substantially less than the isk variants. all your bpo's can be listed on the market in a new menu and you just run them off from that menu. isk is being lost, and bpo owners are still saving isk. thats a compromise i would be willing to accept but the isk cost has to be at a level to make them worthwhile
+1 |
Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
137
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 22:13:00 -
[114] - Quote
Why not ignore BPOs and just offer more incentives to use ADV and PRO equipment? If the BPOs are too good, that might mean that ADV and PRO are not good enough to justify the prices.
Why not scale the ISK rewards based on the value of the equipment you risked/expended in combat? To that end, you could partially compensate players for the losses of their equipment (call it insurance) so they will consume more high end equipment and thus participate more in the future market economy?
What's the real goal? If I'm trying to save ISK, and I run BPOs - replacing a 6k setup - and I die 8 times in a fight - my profit is reduced by 48k isk. Instead of earning 198k in a fight, I'd earn 150k. Somebody thinks this extra tiny profit is a big deal? 48,000 isk? So, every 3 fights I could afford one more protosuit (to add to my stacks of thousands). It's somehow a disaster for the economy that I not earn so many protosuits so quickly? If only I had earned 3 instead of 4 protosuits in those 3 rounds, that would be the key to making the economy run like it should? Seriously? |
Aqua-Regia
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
451
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 22:14:00 -
[115] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:To CCP:
You could offer a reasonable sum of AUR or ISK through a "buyback" effort. Mercs will readily part with the BPOs they don't use, so you'll have fewer BPOs in circulation.
Glad to hear you aren't taking BPOs from player inventories. You could nerf bat them to discourage use, but that'd be plain dirty.
or CCP can buy it back in the open market, if we call sell them in the player market . |
Kovinis Sparagas
Bullet Cluster
66
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 22:15:00 -
[116] - Quote
Aqua-Regia wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:The reason why BPOs aren't working as intended is they are having a large negative impact on the ingame economy. For the economy to function properly, items need to be consumed in battle. With BPOs, no items are consumed, which breaks this fundamental requirement.
As far as trading of BPOs, that's not decided yet. I will be taking your feedback though. We'll let you know when we come to a decision. what about this: you allow players to run off copies from a bpo. the bpo itself is not a suit. to produce your copies you have to pay "x" amount of isk per suit/item which is substantially less than the isk variants. all your bpo's can be listed on the market in a new menu and you just run them off from that menu. isk is being lost, and bpo owners are still saving isk. thats a compromise i would be willing to accept but the isk cost has to be at a level to make them worthwhile +1 I wanted to replay to delete BPO all together, but this is even better idea
+1 |
Goric Rumis
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
228
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 22:15:00 -
[117] - Quote
Once again, I'm going to toss out that all dropsuits should have an optional mod slot to add a visual style element ("skin"). The visual style mods can be BPO's from here until eternity. I think that would be useful for future releases / real-money packs.
I have no problem with other BPO's changing hands. They'll become a rarity but offer no actual battlefield advantage (without more of them being sold, they'll just skyrocket in price until you couldn't save that kind of money after using them for a million matches, and none of them to my knowledge are better than an ISK counterpart). That's my perspective, anyway.
Isn't it all ultimately a question of economic impact? What does the economic consultant dude have to say about it? |
HowDidThatTaste
Ancient Exiles
3846
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 22:22:00 -
[118] - Quote
I bought the elite pack and the other one because of the BPO's I was under the impression like other items in the game we could be able to sell them. as with the whole respec issue you will do what ever you want.
I have multiple LAVs and BPOs suits and so many SMG's
If you had told me that each one I bought i would not be able to resell I would not have purchased so many.
I guess you have made a fool of your paying customers once again if you do not allow us to sell these items. |
MassiveNine
0uter.Heaven
276
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 22:25:00 -
[119] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:I bought the elite pack and the other one because of the BPO's I was under the impression like other items in the game we could be able to sell them. as with the whole respec issue you will do wharever you want.
I have multiple LAVs and boo suits and so many SMG's
If you had told me that each one I bought i would not be able to resell I would not have purchased so many.
I guess you have made a fool of your paying customers once again if you do not allow us to sell these items.
Right. There are a bunch of us from closed beta that bought 2-3 of each BPO before the market jumped prices on them under the guise that we would be able to sell them for a big profit when the market goes live. Would be pretty messed up if we couldn't offload them, what am I supposed to do with 3 BPOs of the same thing? |
OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
922
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 22:38:00 -
[120] - Quote
Or they could give us all respec s for every 50 000 worth of aur BPOS =ƒوى |
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