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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
436
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 11:24:00 -
[31] - Quote
wants an omega booster bpo set..
we can dream lol |
straya fox
CybinSect
52
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 11:44:00 -
[32] - Quote
it seems that BPO's work as intended but CCP's intentions changed. From the discussions in a few other threads the plan may be to reimburse players eventually the AUR value.
My concern is that if BPO's are removed how can CCP put an AUR value on the items that i purchased with real cash. All my Dren gear was not purchased with AUR, my Toxin assault rifle was not purchased with AUR and neither was my Dragonfly assault suit, my BPO LAV was not purchased with AUR.... All these were bought directly with real money.
I accept some of my BPO's were AUR purchases, like Toxin SMG and Militia armour plate BPO's. These have an AUR value that can be reimbursed, but if something is taken away that i paid direct cash for i would expect a direct cash reimbursement.
I truly believe CCP does not want to give cash back so please think carefully about this issue. |
Savaric Koldaga
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
28
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 11:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Most of the players who are actually gonna stick and are goin to be active have already got bpos. So CCP is just giving new players another reason to bail after only a couple of games. Also if they get rid of them what will there be that is worth spending aurum on besides boosters? Are boosters next? If they get rid of bpos they'll have to give aurum back. If they give aurum back they should just go ahead and give me my money back since there really wont be anything worth spending it on.If this game turns into nothing but boosters and grinding... Oh wait too late. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
212
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 12:57:00 -
[34] - Quote
I suspect the BPO's are being used much more than they suspected, plus all the people who were "smart" enough to buy tons of BPOs when they were dirt cheap. I'm OK with them making it so we have to "build" the things we have BPO's for, and then selling those, and not the BPO's, I understand thats how EVE works (dont play it), so that's not something anyone can say they didn't expect to be a possibility. I'm not sure what to say about selling BPO's between players. I'd certainly like to transfer some of my redundant ones to an alt, but since I didn't buy 100's of them it's not a deal breaker to me.
That said, they actually take away my BPOs, as much as grief I've given the "I'm quiting dust" posters, that's going to be real easy to say, well you better refund my purchases back to my PSN wallet, I'm gonne get another game and I'm out! |
Thang Bausch
Pierrot Le Fou Industries
66
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 13:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
The dragonfly suit and toxin AR helped me as a noob. I think the no BPO will hurt new players and also hurt CCP from making money. Spending 20 on some solid items early in the game was an easy decision. That helped me stay in the game long enough to commit to the 100 for the Elite pack. If the BPOs were not in those packs, I would not have bought them.
If they released a pack of militia BPOs, I'd consider buying it when my current aur runs out. Hell, I just checked out the collectors pack and the idea of having Amar assault/logi suits, scrambler rifle, and laser rifle BPOs made me briefly consider buying that pack. If those items came in a Dust only pack with AUR and depletables, I would consider buying it when my current AUR ran out. |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
496
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 13:49:00 -
[36] - Quote
what is the precise date the bpos in the elite pack will be removed in case i change my mind about grabbing it..i would only be interested in it for the saga bpo |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
1188
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 13:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:If BPOs are currently not functioning as intended, what is the intended function of BPOs.
I also saw a post in which a CCP representative stated they were considering not allowing the trade/sale of BPOs on the player controlled market.
Not allowing the trade of BPOs is a very bad Idea.
There should never be Items purchased by some, but not available to all. This rallies against the Free to Play model. It sends a very bad message to new players, and disproportionately rewards veteran players with the unrestricted ability to earn ISK which they mostly do not need anyway.
Most veteran players are in PC, where they make millions of ISK per match. Those corporations which own districts also make millions perhaps billions of ISK by the sale of clones. Then they are able to turn around and play Pub matches using full BPO fittings and risk absolutely no loss.
The players that could benefit the most from BPOs - the new players - will then only further fatten the wallets of the veteran players, while at the same time depleting their own because they would always be forced to risk something to play.
In a game where risk vs reward is supposed to be the driving factor, not allowing the trade of BPOs after removing the ability to otherwise obtain them completely destroys this philosophy.
Pretty much on point. I make 50 mil a month running bpo in pubs and that's not counting PC. |
Kazeno Rannaa
BIG BAD W0LVES
257
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 14:58:00 -
[38] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Not function as intended? So cutting down on potential AUR purchases you mean
That is the way that BPO's have begun to cut into CCP's money making ability. But only because they have revealed and made available a fraction of what is need for the races to interact, the mechanics are still under a lot of construction and improvement (at least one would hope so), and with the dwindling player base and their general boredom, it is making it difficult for CCP Shanghai to prove their economic viability to corporate headquarters.
Wonder why Valkrye is now coming out and being plastered by articles in gaming magazines?
Resources are being shifted from DUST to other projects, which I would believe would include both personnel and finances. It would be much in the same realm as what I suspect why the DEVs have fallen so behind in their release schedule for content and why only certain fixes and UI addressments have been finished; The staff is no longer there in Shanghai, or better yet it is to say that there is not enough staff in Shanghai and they are not being allowed to have the staff that is necessary to complete what they have.
From my understanding this is much the reported way that CCP has operated for some time. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4516
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 16:01:00 -
[39] - Quote
DeeJay One wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Many players who purchased vast quantities of these BPOs back during the final moments of closed beta (at cheap AUR prices) bought them under the assumption that they will later be able to sell them again to other players for ISK in the secondary market. Well, even at that time this was called speculation and as every speculation it can go sideways sometimes ;) (IMNSHO the whole BPO price change was a disaster and shouldn't have happened in the first place)
I agree. It was a huge mistake for CCP to set those prices at such low levels to begin with. It would have been more practical to setup the prices back then at the rate they are now. But then again, CCP was experimenting with price ranges to see which was most balanced in a market that is fragile and small. Remember, there is no game out there like this in the industry and therefore there was no base data for CCP to base their model on. |
General John Ripper
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
3775
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 16:14:00 -
[40] - Quote
statement approved. |
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crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1874
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 16:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
!!!!!!! what if BPOs were one use per match! And they auto restock at the end of battle?
Or they could have 3-4 runs and then you can't use that suit/module until a new match? hmmm? |
Evicer
THE HECATONCHIRES
19
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 17:25:00 -
[42] - Quote
The F2p kids will be screaming once changes to FW with a zero ISK payout and the LP boosters hit the market.You will now have to buy LP boosters AND SP boosters.The LP booster will increase you aftermatch payout thus being p2w anyways. So the p2w QQ monkeys who like getting rid of Bpos ,can suck on that one.They(CCP) simply have to mathematically adjust with a formula or make revisions as to the value of LP and feed us some line later on that they were not working as intended and adjust there LP store prices.One only has to look at the revisions being made for district ownership in PC as far as ISK generated and the Changes to FW that will be paying nothing to realize that CCP wants us to sustain our characters by using these Aurum BPC packs.
Problem is,is this game currently isnt worth paying a quarter per play for.
The other thing is with the changes to FW payout logic dictates that you the player would start using your militia Bpo's again in FW and playing against noobs wearing militia this might actually level the playing field for noobs CCP knows this and thus will seek to nerf the Militia Bpo's into oblivion.Problem is is they sold them to generate money for the Dev of this game as permanent items.
Also I believe that CCP can not Logistically keep up with Dev'ing content for 3 games at once.One only has to read the forums to see that DUST players want content and the new content will need new skills so people will continue to buy SP boosters and benerate monies for CCP, but they cant keep up with the time line of when people will max out.you only need to run projections into computers to figure this out as far as CCP knowing this.PC stagnates yet by the time they Dev new content and add skills for that content the corps in PC will have generated massive amounts of ISK.They couldnt sell boosters at first and so they put BPO's into the packs to increase there value as a selling point.If this was there intention all along.Why sell BPOs in the first place?
Makes me wonder if there is a single person at CCP who took business ethics.I had thought about buying The second decade collectors edition.Just for the Templar BPO's.At present with the statement in this thread and the possibility of you making future changes to those and all BPO's.The decision to purchase it at present without statements made official that you will not be changing the BPO's, is highly unlikely.It will also be a deciding factor as to whether I will make any future purchases as well.
This is there short sighted fix to a problem they created themselves and who do they punish for there mistakes? There customers...Way to go CCP. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
392
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Hate to say it but if in the future CCP were to limit (in there use) or remove the BPOs I already have I will probably walk away from the game. Not because I do not enjoy it but because I would have stopped trusting CCP with the RL money I have spent on this game. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4533
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:36:00 -
[44] - Quote
Evicer wrote:The F2p kids will be screaming once changes to FW with a zero ISK payout and the LP boosters hit the market.You will now have to buy LP boosters AND SP boosters.
False. You won't have to buy the boosters. Just like the boosters you see now in the current market, no one forces you to get them. Even now, I feel no pressure into buying today's boosters to catch up. |
Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
244
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 20:30:00 -
[45] - Quote
Just hillarious. CCP wanted to make a quick big transaction (due to BPO's cost much more then single use stuff) and now they want to change it cause most people where smart enough to buy a BPO instead off tons of single used AUR weapons. This is just another iteration of the "greed is good" campaing which once happend on eve and caused a riot. If they change a single aspect how BPO's work then i want a full AUR refund for all the BPO's at the last known AUR value on the market. Additionally i want for each BPO which was part from the merc pack a 30 day active booster. This includes the Raven,SVER and Valor dropsuits which where aswell once part of it. |
Necandi Brasil
DUST BRASIL S.A
395
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 20:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
BPO's not working as intended ? CCP , What the hell ? What were they supposed to do ? |
Powerh8er
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men.
170
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 23:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
Dont you touch my bacon BPO. |
Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
134
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 01:46:00 -
[48] - Quote
This isn't a smart move. Flip flops can make a bad plan worse. BPOs are ideal for new players and its obvious CCP has mixed opinions and conflicting design decisions. BPOs are already in the game. Removing them will have fallout, with vets demanding cash refunds. New players will be bitter if Vets get free suits and they have to pay 6k isk a pop in a game mode that doesn't pay isk.
BPOs were not broken. Vets will have 28 or 29 protofits and one or two free setups for special occasions. CCP should have come out with more BPOs (Sica and Soma) as part of a new armored warfare pack.
If someone has a grand vision that involved militia and standard equipment needing to cost isk, that a couple thousand isk for starter equipment is important enough to trigger another fiasco, I have a news flash for you -> That's not an inspiring grand vision. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4543
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 02:51:00 -
[49] - Quote
Luk Manag wrote:BPOs were not broken..
Actually, BPOs present a few complications when it comes to balancing the incoming secondary market. For starters they don't have any material requirements like other BPOs in Eve Online do. Which means they are independent from industry and therefore present a problem for players on the Eve side of the Eve-Dust connection. If Eve players are going to handle most of the initial industry functions of Dust such as manufacturing, how are they going to compete with AURUM BPOs that don't have material requirements and therefore undercut the profits the manufacturers?
Then there is the fact that if Eve players get impacted negatively by AURUM BPOs then proportionally the players that provide the materials for dropsuit production (most likely to be Dust-side district owners in the future) will be equally affected.
Quote: Removing them will have fallout, with vets demanding cash refunds.
Please read CCP's original post. If you already purchased a BPO, it's staying in your hangar despite the fact that CCP is removing them from the market. Think of them as your novelty collection and be glad you get to keep them. |
Soraya Xel
New Eden's Most Wanted Top Men.
681
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 06:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Tell ur team that the vast majority of us DO want BPOs to be sellable once the p2p market is implemented, because we bought multiple merc packs & wanted to sell our extras eventually. & thx for Dev clarification speedily. I agree. Many players who purchased vast quantities of these BPOs back during the final moments of closed beta (at cheap AUR prices) bought them under the assumption that they will later be able to sell them again to other players for ISK in the secondary market.
Adapt or die. You guys shouldn't get special treatment because you were hoping to exploit the beta to take advantage of new players later. |
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OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
915
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 12:35:00 -
[51] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:If BPOs are currently not functioning as intended, what is the intended function of BPOs.
I also saw a post in which a CCP representative stated they were considering not allowing the trade/sale of BPOs on the player controlled market.
Not allowing the trade of BPOs is a very bad Idea.
There should never be Items purchased by some, but not available to all. This rallies against the Free to Play model. It sends a very bad message to new players, and disproportionately rewards veteran players with the unrestricted ability to earn ISK which they mostly do not need anyway.
Most veteran players are in PC, where they make millions of ISK per match. Those corporations which own districts also make millions perhaps billions of ISK by the sale of clones. Then they are able to turn around and play Pub matches using full BPO fittings and risk absolutely no loss.
The players that could benefit the most from BPOs - the new players - will then only further fatten the wallets of the veteran players, while at the same time depleting their own because they would always be forced to risk something to play.
In a game where risk vs reward is supposed to be the driving factor, not allowing the trade of BPOs after removing the ability to otherwise obtain them completely destroys this philosophy. It is risk vs reward.
I risked not having a pack of smokes until payday, maybe getting a flat on the way to work an not having enough in my account, not having gas, not having booze for the hot date so I could GETSOME, see I got this problem with my chequing an my savings, an I risked giving ccp money.
I DESERVE MY REWARD! Bpos are basically like owning your own factory an if they wanna take em I want 1yr supply of active an passive omega boosters per BPO!
If this game is really gonna be around as long as they say it is then I was smart enough to buy park place, boardwalk an Baltic ave an all them train stations!
Everyone had time to buy them, we that have bpos should be able to do whatever we want with them, they are priceless isk making fortune factories an because we supported ccp that should be our reward!
Trade them for other bpos, for 200 officer weapons, for 10 000 000 isk! They are wayne Gretzky rookie cards an as players trade an sell them to each other an people delete characters they will become fewer an more valuable .
We took the risk in a beta game an we funded it, this is our reward! |
OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
916
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 12:45:00 -
[52] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Luk Manag wrote:BPOs were not broken.. Actually, BPOs present a few complications when it comes to balancing the incoming secondary market. For starters they don't have any material requirements like other BPOs in Eve Online do. Which means they are independent from industry and therefore present a problem for players on the Eve side of the Eve-Dust connection. If Eve players are going to handle most of the initial industry functions of Dust such as manufacturing, how are they going to compete with AURUM BPOs that don't have material requirements and therefore undercut the profits the manufacturers? Then there is the fact that if Eve players get impacted negatively by AURUM BPOs then proportionally the players that provide the materials for dropsuit production (most likely to be Dust-side district owners in the future) will be equally affected. Quote: Removing them will have fallout, with vets demanding cash refunds.
Please read CCP's original post. If you already purchased a BPO, it's staying in your hangar despite the fact that CCP is removing them from the market. Think of them as your novelty collection and be glad you get to keep them. Simple! They make adv an proto gear an weapons that aren't bpos. Sell it for whatever you like at that point. Their are no scrambler bpos except from the eve pack, no nova knives, md,lazers,faylocks, forge guns or hmgs. Which means they can sell all that plus jack the cost of any gear above basic, an ya bpo users won't have to buy basic gear but they can afford the sky rocketing costs of proto fits, so it ll work out |
OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
917
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 12:50:00 -
[53] - Quote
Necandi Brasil wrote:BPO's not working as intended ? CCP , What the hell ? What were they supposed to do ? Take your money, the not working as intended part is them not figuring out how to remove them, bait an switch you two weeks ago an keep your cash! |
The Terminator T-1000
The Praetorian Legionary
56
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 13:45:00 -
[54] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Hey all,
We just wanted to clarify statements made about the removal of BPOs.
We are in the process of removing BPOs from the market. We have already removed them from the in game market, and we will eventually be removing them from packs available on the PSN Store. We are not removing any existing BPOs from any player inventories and there are no plans to do so. BPOs are currently not functioning as intended so we are looking at the way they work in game.
Again, we would like to reiterate that they will not be removed from any inventories.
I am glad they will not be removed from my inventory! I have paid money for these BPOs and I want to keep them. Maybe CCP should limit the number of the SAME BPOs someone owns so they are not abused. If I ever lose my BPOs for which I paid money, I would simply stop playing this game. |
Friendly Woodsman
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
110
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 14:17:00 -
[55] - Quote
It's pretty obvious that CCP needs to have some serious and transparent dialogues with the community and the CPM about the future of BPOs, and fast. This is a legal issue that involves contract disputes and real money. It's solution is not going to be as simple as saying, "HTFU, scrubs."
It is a good start to let us know that they are not currently going to remove the items that they have already sold to us. That cannot be the last word on this, though. We agreed to pay them money for a certain product that they advertised. To take our money, and then change the product after the fact and replace it with something that we didn't agree to buy is unethical and generally considered a breach of contract. People can say that the EULA covers their hind parts, and all I can say in response is that a class action lawsuit would definitely find out if that is true or not.
If they need to change how BPOs work, fine. If they want to change how they work without offering refunds so that I can decide if I actually want to buy this new product, that is not fine. I'm sure that their legal team is sitting them down and telling them about things like consumer protection laws, just as I am also sure that the longer they leave players in the dark about this, the longer they go without selling any more packs. |
Luk Manag
of Terror TRE GAFFEL
135
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 15:22:00 -
[56] - Quote
OZAROW wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Luk Manag wrote:BPOs were not broken.. Actually, BPOs present a few complications when it comes to balancing the incoming secondary market. For starters they don't have any material requirements like other BPOs in Eve Online do. Which means they are independent from industry and therefore present a problem for players on the Eve side of the Eve-Dust connection. If Eve players are going to handle most of the initial industry functions of Dust such as manufacturing, how are they going to compete with AURUM BPOs that don't have material requirements and therefore undercut the profits the manufacturers? Then there is the fact that if Eve players get impacted negatively by AURUM BPOs then proportionally the players that provide the materials for dropsuit production (most likely to be Dust-side district owners in the future) will be equally affected. Quote: Removing them will have fallout, with vets demanding cash refunds.
Please read CCP's original post. If you already purchased a BPO, it's staying in your hangar despite the fact that CCP is removing them from the market. Think of them as your novelty collection and be glad you get to keep them. Simple! They make adv an proto gear an weapons that aren't bpos. Sell it for whatever you like at that point. Their are no scrambler bpos except from the eve pack, no nova knives, md,lazers,faylocks, forge guns or hmgs. Which means they can sell all that plus jack the cost of any gear above basic, an ya bpo users won't have to buy basic gear but they can afford the sky rocketing costs of proto fits, so it ll work out
Exactly! As someone who has 3 industrial accounts in Eve, I wouldn't bother with militia or even standard products. I wouldn't bother with cheap gear, because the margins would be so low. I'm just not interested in medium tier high volume production for items that will cost less than 1000 isk each. 100k per unit is a different story.
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Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
45
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 15:45:00 -
[57] - Quote
I think CCP has it ass-backwards. I am sorry to say this, I really am.
If anything they should be making more of them, not less. Have them buy able for AUR or by ISK at a ratio of 1000:1. If BPOs can be bought and traded they themselves can naturally balance it all out.
Why? Because bpo are militia to standard grade, if someone wants advanced or proto they have to buy it. For that edge they have to pay simple as that. Honestly I think the problem currently is there isn't a bpo for every type of item.
Now if you really wanted to put a stipulation on it, make there be a death cap per match, that's right, you die too many times then the bpos "exhausted" until you pull out of combat and are restocked automatically.
Honestly CCP I have played a lot of mmorpgs/mmogs/fps/tps, p2p, f2p, f2p w purchase, etc. I like many other veteran gamers (see gamer not necessarily shooter) would NEVER pay for a consumable item that only lasts one death. If BPOs are eradicated or so marginalized that they are made useless, I will probably just leave. |
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CCP Logibro
C C P C C P Alliance
3016
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 16:28:00 -
[58] - Quote
The reason why BPOs aren't working as intended is they are having a large negative impact on the ingame economy. For the economy to function properly, items need to be consumed in battle. With BPOs, no items are consumed, which breaks this fundamental requirement.
As far as trading of BPOs, that's not decided yet. I will be taking your feedback though. We'll let you know when we come to a decision. CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics
@CCP_Logibro |
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4544
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 16:28:00 -
[59] - Quote
Friendly Woodsman wrote:It's pretty obvious that CCP needs to have some serious and transparent dialogues with the community and the CPM about the future of BPOs, and fast. This is a legal issue that involves contract disputes and real money. It's solution is not going to be as simple as saying, "HTFU, scrubs."
It is a good start to let us know that they are not currently going to remove the items that they have already sold to us. That cannot be the last word on this, though. We agreed to pay them money for a certain product that they advertised. To take our money, and then change the product after the fact and replace it with something that we didn't agree to buy is unethical and generally considered a breach of contract. People can say that the EULA covers their hind parts, and all I can say in response is that a class action lawsuit would definitely find out if that is true or not.
If they need to change how BPOs work, fine. If they want to change how they work without offering refunds so that I can decide if I actually want to buy this new product, that is not fine. I'm sure that their legal team is sitting them down and telling them about things like consumer protection laws, just as I am also sure that the longer they leave players in the dark about this, the longer they go without selling any more packs.
It has to be the last word. There is no way around it.
CCP can't refund us the value of the bpo items due to what I mentioned earlier. Unless of course they go through all the records to see which player bought what bpo and at what price back in closed beta. That will just delay everything because of the manual labor needed. Therefore that idea is out of the window.
There is also the issue with bpo items that can't be found anywhere at all outside of the reward system (recruitment program, special event from last year, etc.) therefore they have no actual aurum value. It will be impossible to compensate for that.
All I can see as a proper solution here is to just let us keep the bpo items as is and forget about this discussion. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4544
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 16:32:00 -
[60] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:The reason why BPOs aren't working as intended is they are having a large negative impact on the ingame economy. For teh economy to function properly, items need to be consumed in battle. With BPOs, no items are consumed, which breaks this fundamental requirement.
As far as trading of BPOs, that's not decided yet. I will be taking your feedback though. We'll let you know when we come to a decision.
I'm ok with having my bpo items locked into my character, but that is just me. I will let the rest of the player base decide for themselves on that major and go with the majority vote. Actually, do what CCP Cmdr Wang did and put it to a vote. |
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