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Announcement:Statement on BPO Removal

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Announcement:Statement on BPO Removal

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Vespasian Andendare Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack 515	Posted - 2013.10.21 16:38:00 - [61] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: The reason why BPOs aren't working as intended is they are having a large negative impact on the ingame economy. For teh economy to function properly, items need to be consumed in battle. With BPOs, no items are consumed, which breaks this fundamental requirement. As far as trading of BPOs, that's not decided yet. I will be taking your feedback though. We'll let you know when we come to a decision. I'm ok with having my bpo items locked into my character, but that is just me. I will let the rest of the player base decide for themselves on that major and go with the majority vote. Actually, do what CCP Cmdr Wang did and put it to a vote. I'm probably ok with having them locked to the character I purchased them on, although this "soulbound" idea is contrary to the Eve Universe. My question to the Dev Team is if BPOs are causing all sorts of issues with the economy, what is to stop someone from just running militia-exclusive (starter) fits all the time? Wouldn't these free offerings be hurting the game economy as much as militia-grade BPO suits are? Are you guys going to remove cost-free militia starter suits altogether?
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1100	Posted - 2013.10.21 16:45:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: The reason why BPOs aren't working as intended is they are having a large negative impact on the ingame economy. For the economy to function properly, items need to be consumed in battle. With BPOs, no items are consumed, which breaks this fundamental requirement. As far as trading of BPOs, that's not decided yet. I will be taking your feedback though. We'll let you know when we come to a decision. So what will happen with BPOs along the way? Will they work like they do in Eve later? Or are the ones who bought them the lucky ones who will be able to keep them?
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers 1889	Posted - 2013.10.21 17:00:00 - [63] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: The reason why BPOs aren't working as intended is they are having a large negative impact on the ingame economy. For the economy to function properly, items need to be consumed in battle. With BPOs, no items are consumed, which breaks this fundamental requirement. As far as trading of BPOs, that's not decided yet. I will be taking your feedback though. We'll let you know when we come to a decision. My feedback is train foresight to level 5! I hope we won't be able to trade them and there will be a limit on how many times a bpo can be run in a single battle
Friendly Woodsman Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 110	Posted - 2013.10.21 17:03:00 - [64] - Quote I think that their current function should be locked to the characters that they were first assigned to, but change, when traded or sold, into Eve style BPOs. When the markets are integrated and player trading is added, Eve and Dust should have the same system of blue prints and copies with Dust players using manufacturing spots in stations, etc. That's gotta be possible using Crest, right? The characteristics they currently have should be the thing that is locked to the characters, with maybe a name change now in order to differentiate them later on. You could change their current name to something like "PBP", for Permanent Blue Print. I don't know if I actually like that name, but that's what just popped into my head...well that and bacon. Anyway, you could then just issue a disclaimer letting people know that PBPs turn into BPOs once sold or traded. They would still be valuable and people who bought tons on speculation would still profit, but they will also suffer attrition over time and the economy around these lower meta level items will recover. Just a thought.
Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 924	Posted - 2013.10.21 17:07:00 - [65] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: The reason why BPOs aren't working as intended is they are having a large negative impact on the ingame economy. For the economy to function properly, items need to be consumed in battle. With BPOs, no items are consumed, which breaks this fundamental requirement. As far as trading of BPOs, that's not decided yet. I will be taking your feedback though. We'll let you know when we come to a decision. It seems your are looking at the effect instead of the cause. Why are people using bpo so much? A couple things come to mind. Players are lazy and restocking gear is annoying (auto restock anyone?) Players run high end gear spend their isk and want to quickly earn isk back, thus low/free suits Vehicles cost a lot, so much that pilots usually have to run free suits for several maps to call one in that they are happy with Some BPOs let you play as another roll without having to skill into it, i.e. Dren xx Your team is losing badly, you want to still try to kill the other side but its not worth risking isk to do so (more isk rewards for flipping a match anyone?)
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 734	Posted - 2013.10.21 17:24:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: The reason why BPOs aren't working as intended is they are having a large negative impact on the ingame economy. For the economy to function properly, items need to be consumed in battle. With BPOs, no items are consumed, which breaks this fundamental requirement. As far as trading of BPOs, that's not decided yet. I will be taking your feedback though. We'll let you know when we come to a decision. get rid of them, or turn them into bpos for manufacture.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4551	Posted - 2013.10.21 17:29:00 - [67] - Quote Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=116658&find=unread Maken Tosch wrote: I will be in my unbiased mood and help host another public vote just like the one I hosted earlier about the weekly SP cap from long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away. How this will work is that I will post two replies down below. Each reply is basically one of two votes to cast. You can cast your vote by simply clicking on the "Like" button located on the top-right corner of each of the two replies. I will host this Public Vote for as long as it takes for CCP to notice. The point of this vote is to get CCP's attention on the issue on whether or not our BPO that are in our hangars (which thankfully we get to keep) get character locked or stay opened for secondary market trading. This is also to help CCP better decide which direction to go for in such a short notice if there is no time to discuss it with the CPM first. It will be most appreciated if the members of the CPM post here for support.
matsumoto yuichi san SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 23	Posted - 2013.10.21 17:52:00 - [68] - Quote so if they are being removed due to the effect on the economy removing them simply from the market doesn't get you anywhere as most players will have them now if they ever intended to, and as previously mentioned the starter fits fill the same role so those for most purposes are similarly problematic, and then there are the things like the EVE 2nd decade things primarily providing dust BPO's and the interaction there. finally though what if you know they functioned AS BPO's and you had the source so you could make the item indefinately but it consumed less material EG cheaper not free, but the best implementation there, as mentioned earlier in the thread requires functioning EVE style manufacture. that resolves the consumption issue, AND then you could let player make items from the BPO and sell them on open maket like you know EVE making the BPO an isk maker if you spend the effort, and if you use it for yourself a cheaper not free alternative to the market items. we can assume for legal reasons the empire limit the purchase of the various infantry grade weapons primarily by access to the limited run BPC's they sell on the market, implying that a large fraction of an items cost is in the BPC not materials, so you need the materials still for BPO (30% price) but the (70%) for the BPC is absent since you have a BPO, now they aren't FREE, but they also have a point for those that have them now, and you can remove the ones on the market, fine, but the remaining BPO's wouldn't have the harmful long term effects you are alluding to.
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 1875	Posted - 2013.10.21 17:56:00 - [69] - Quote I know this may sound simplistic and not complicated enough .... But ,why can we just use ISK to restock BPO's ?.... i will be happy just having the cosmetic look. Maybe just a bit less ISK to restock them.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 132	Posted - 2013.10.21 17:56:00 - [70] - Quote I understand your reasons for withdrawing BPOs from sale. Consistent with that, I am in favour of allowing BPO trade, for three reasons: 1) Players bought the BPOs in the expectation that they would be able to trade them; it is bad form to do a switcheroo on them. 2) Gives new players a chance to acquire BPOs; without trade old players will always have an isk generating advantage denied to new players. 3) Secures the integrity of the market; as a matter of economic principle everything should have its price, especially in New Eden.

Egypt Musk A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 30	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:00:00 - [71] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I'm actually somewhat worried about this... The guy worked on Battlefield Play4Free and Need for Speed World. We just got rid of murder taxi's, for one, and Battlefield Play4Free was a travesty. Hell, just look at the metacritic score (or better yet play the game) and you'll notice some red flags. Okay, that might have come off as some rather heavy handed sarcasm but it is curious none the less. Let's be real here, the last thing we need is content that has a measurable impact on the battlefield that you can only obtain by paying money and since EA's answer to solving that over at BF:P4F was to abolish premium content that people paid MONEY for.... ... and I know, you can't blame one person for the company's mistakes. But one good apple doesn't make a bunch edible. So, here's to hoping that none of EA's business practices wore off on the guy. Either way, welcome to the team. We'll for 1 this ^....I hate to say some 0ne told us so about what was going to happen when the new Ep started but they told us so and the CPM's had the nerve to give him grief for it....2ndly after being CCP's nerf project for the last 4 months altering my ability to use or trade my BPO in anyway really seams like it would be the final straw that breaks the camel's back and stops me from playing this game.... I bought the elite pack specifically for the bpo and was going to get the eve collectors edtion as well for the same reason but given the current state of affairs at cpp I think I will save the cash and use it on other games. I am currently nearing the 20m sp mark and will be at the 200m isk mark soon enough there is no pay out you could offer me in return for my bpo's that I would be happy with unless its COLD HARD CASH just in case you were wondering and I will be putting in a ticket with CCP and Sony asking for such if the are removed.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1193	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:01:00 - [72] - Quote Most of the people who have bpos have millions of isk and proto gear. Very few of us with these assets don't use them BC we do t need them. The new players, however, do need bpos when they start out. Not allowing players to buy bpo gear, or at least trade them, only hurts new players. I'd be in favor of bringing the back to the marketplace.
Sarcastic Dreamkiller I Play Solo 40	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:04:00 - [73] - Quote I don't care whether or not BPO's can be sold, just let me keep the ones I have (I paid for them after all).
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 323	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:08:00 - [74] - Quote 1. Sure, lock them up. 2. I'd accept having my BPOs be removed and cashed for AUR, on the condition this happens to everyone. I also think that BPOs are bad for the game and believe we should rather spend AUR on consumables than BPOs. I'd be perfectly fine with spending AUR on consumable vanity suits. Personally I'd suggest reducing AUR prices alongside since I'm not going to invest 5 real-life cents in a vanity suit and then die to a warbarge strike 5 seconds later.
Dirks Macker Enlightened Infantries 88	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:10:00 - [75] - Quote Argent Mordred wrote: I created an account through a recruitment link. I don't think I ever got the recruit dropsuit beside having enough warpoints. Are those bpo's disapearing or just the ones in the packs and stores. It's not a big deal, but I am curious. You probably should have read the fine print on the recruitment page.
Dirks Macker Enlightened Infantries 88	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:13:00 - [76] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Most of the people who have bpos have millions of isk and proto gear. Very few of us with these assets don't use them BC we do t need them. The new players, however, do need bpos when they start out. Not allowing players to buy bpo gear, or at least trade them, only hurts new players. I'd be in favor of bringing the back to the marketplace. I use the BPO's I have all the time and I don't wear proto gear. I also see people in killer squads wearing them (The Dren Sentinel for instance) alongside their proto-wearing squadmates.
Lt Royal Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2053	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:13:00 - [77] - Quote My Feedback I think BPO's should eventually be made into how they work in EVE. That they require you to actually build the said items with materials. The materials could be gained through the PVE mechanics CCP have said they are working towards. This would then let us put the manufactured items up on the player controlled market (CCP have said they are working towards this too) for the prices we see fit. This would then make BPOGÇÖs very valuable to the people who have invested in the skills to manufacture those said items and useless to those who are not looking to skill into manufacturing apart from to sell upon the market. All in all this will add new meta game mechanics for people to undercut each other to sell their gear. IGÇÖm pretty sure this has already been posted because its a good idea, if i do say so myself. I mean the mechanic works wonders in EVE! Anyway for now; I'm all for player trading BPOGÇÖs.
G Torq ALTA B2O 247	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:14:00 - [78] - Quote Please allow player-traded BPOs. There is a BPO item I would like, but which would cost me 150USD to get - not going to spend that kind of RL money for a single BPO.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 39	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:16:00 - [79] - Quote CharCharOdell wrote: Most of the people who have bpos have millions of isk and proto gear. Very few of us with these assets don't use them BC we do t need them. The new players, however, do need bpos when they start out. Not allowing players to buy bpo gear, or at least trade them, only hurts new players. I'd be in favor of bringing the back to the marketplace. This is very true, and what I think is the core problem for CCP. Many of us have multiple copies of BPOs... What do you think will happen if we are allowed to freely trade these? Instead of one person having x9 BPOs, it will now be 9 people having x1 BPO, making the situation much much worse (you only need one right?). This is why I am against trading BPOs (in its current form). A few people have suggested they turn into EVE type BPOs. I think this is a great idea (and only option IMHO). This will mean a BPO can no longer be equipped directly, but only used for manufacture real items to be consumed. These could then be sold and traded freely, completely negating the problem. Alternatively, I think a block on trading with an optional buy back option could be feasible, where people can get rid of their surplus of BPOs without flooding the market. Just my two cents.
Dirks Macker Enlightened Infantries 89	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:22:00 - [80] - Quote Lt Royal wrote: My Feedback I think BPO's should eventually be made into how they work in EVE. That they require you to actually build the said items with materials. The materials could be gained through the PVE mechanics CCP have said they are working towards. This would then let us put the manufactured items up on the player controlled market (CCP have said they are working towards this too) for the prices we see fit. This would then make BPOGÇÖs very valuable to the people who have invested in the skills to manufacture those said items and useless to those who are not looking to skill into manufacturing apart from to sell upon the market. All in all this will add new meta game mechanics for people to undercut each other to sell their gear. IGÇÖm pretty sure this has already been posted because its a good idea, if i do say so myself. I mean the mechanic works wonders in EVE! It could just be as simple as using minerals to make your items from salvage drops you elect to refine after a battle instead of putting in your inventory. You could also buy the same minerals off of the secondary market they have talked about.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6630	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:22:00 - [81] - Quote Do NOT lock BPO trade please. I know BPOs are bad for the economy, but trading won't increase the amount of BPOs in the game, so there is no point on BPO trade restrictions. BPO trade restrictions would only serve to massively inconvenience us.
Sigberct Amni Goonfeet Top Men. 156	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:31:00 - [82] - Quote The only way I'd support "soulbound" BPOs is if they remain 100% free and infinite as they currently are. Otherwise, attach a cost to them similar to what their non-BPO counterparts require, give them unique skins/color variations and allow them to be tradeable. Another option is to make them worth a single omega booster of choice or a sum of aurum. Let them be exchangeable at any time by the owner. Honestly, this was something pointed out when BPOs were first launched and you all didn't seems to care. Then, there's the fact that you guys JUST got done making a hard push on selling BPOs like, last month after removing them from the market and are now talking about altering them in any form is just... greedy. It certainly doesn't encourage me to spend any more money at all. It really stinks even more because you guys slapped that BPO label on the items, knowing what that means in the CCP universe and knowing that would get you a lot of sales and money. It worked and now you want to renege on that unspoken bond of trust. Be very careful how you go about this. I get that something has to change, but this is more than game balance at stake. This is more of the little player goodwill that you have remaining.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 820	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:31:00 - [83] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: As far as trading of BPOs, that's not decided yet. I will be taking your feedback though. We'll let you know when we come to a decision. In my opinion, the only way to limit BPOs future impact on the economy without removing them from the game completely is to lock BPOs to their current characters. Never allowing transfer of BPOs between characters, and limiting any introduction of BPOs in the future, should limit their effect on the economy to an acceptable level. I'm not saying this because I would benefit from the situation. I have stacks of multiple BPOs that I have no use for. But I think it's what is best for the future economy of the game... should you CCP laggards ever get off your lazy arses and actually implement the market.
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1906	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:39:00 - [84] - Quote I think we should be able to trade BPO between players.
We are 138 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 406	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:42:00 - [85] - Quote I would like to be able to trade BPO items between characters on the same account. I have an alt toon on my account that I play after I cap out my main, as I didnt make my apt for some months after I started playing and buying merc packs I have a spare set of dragonfly scout suits and exile assault rifles that I would like to be able to give to myself at least.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 39	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:44:00 - [86] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Do NOT lock BPO trade please. I know BPOs are bad for the economy, but trading won't increase the amount of BPOs in the game, so there is no point on BPO trade restrictions. BPO trade restrictions would only serve to massively inconvenience us. This is not true for the reason I stated in my previous post. You only need x1 BPO. If you have x8 BPOs of the same type it can be regarded as x1, since you can't use or trade the rest (currently). If you could trade these freely, there would be x7 more people running around using your old BPOs, thus effectively increasing the "amount of BPOs" dramatically.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2020	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:50:00 - [87] - Quote Please do not soul-bind our BPOs. Many of us bought many copies specifically for player trading. Implement some interesting industry into Dust and allow us to research our existing BPOs. Add more content and more isk sinks rather than remove existing features.
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 920	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:52:00 - [88] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: The reason why BPOs aren't working as intended is they are having a large negative impact on the ingame economy. For the economy to function properly, items need to be consumed in battle. With BPOs, no items are consumed, which breaks this fundamental requirement. As far as trading of BPOs, that's not decided yet. I will be taking your feedback though. We'll let you know when we come to a decision. I used to run proto scout all the time but I'm broke now an it's because of this: You have failed to fix shotguns 100% and nova knives, I have been waiting patiently for months for this scout love an have gone broke becaus: 1.My weapons don't detect hits so I die; why would I use 150 000 isk fits if when I stab a guy,he kills me because the game glitched. 2. You dialed up the hit detection an range on assault rifles to the point that they die so much from cheap gear that it makes no difference using proto, change range in gear quality or something, but lower it from what it is dont increase it. 3. 1.4 build made it so easy to die that people don't really have to aim, a lot of vets have their skills so high that a proficient AR user can use basic gear an damage mods an it works like a proto so a free rifle an 3000 isk mod work like a 50 000 isk rifle. Don't remove bpo or starter fits, either remove damage mods or increase their cost to say 10 000 for basic, 20 000 for enh, an 30 000 for complex. This would reduce death an possibly change the game, it makes no sense to use a 50 000 isk rifle an 60 000 for two damage mods for the logi assaults if you did this. As a scout I have lost a slot since uprising an everything else in the game works better, why would I continuously go broke if theirs no survivabilaty difference? This goes for assaults to since its easier to kill, dps is your survival not bpo shields an armor, people use bpo suits an guns an complex damage mods. Change it so that starter fits can't have gear that it comes with interchangeable with other gear. Then increase the cost of damage mods. This way aBPO suit with a complex damage mod still costs 30 000. Also you need to makeBPO SELLABLE on p2p market , I have7 df scouts between characters, toxins, 3 assault bpo an 3 cars, I only need one of each an new players need vets to at least be able to give or sell one to them or corps be able to use them as recruitment bonuses to give noobs a leg up an make them feel important. You could also remove starters after 10 mill sp, vets don't need those , that also would give people a reason to buy BPOS from others an make them a top commodity . Not making BPO sellable is bad for biz, I bought more packs on the ideal that it was top of the line real estate , who wants ten of the same thing that they can't profit selling 9 of? When you took BPOS off market people automatically bought doubles an triple of gear to re sell it because that's how you made it seem to be, that if you bought now it would benifit you in the future. Trust me, pull up damage mod costs then let people sell BPOS an make starter fits non interchangable, this will makeBPOS even more invaluable then they already are.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 820	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:56:00 - [89] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Do NOT lock BPO trade please. I know BPOs are bad for the economy, but trading won't increase the amount of BPOs in the game, so there is no point on BPO trade restrictions. BPO trade restrictions would only serve to massively inconvenience us. This is not true for the reason I stated in my previous post. You only need x1 BPO. If you have x8 BPOs of the same type it can be regarded as x1, since you can't use or trade the rest (currently). If you could trade these freely, there would be x7 more people running around using your old BPOs, thus effectively increasing the "amount of BPOs" dramatically. And that's exactly why they should be player locked. I don't have a use for all those extra Dragonfly Scout suits sitting in my inventory, but I understand it could be a huge problem spreading them around the community. The only other thing I can think of would be to lock them still, but offer some sort of voluntary BPO trade-in program. Say, trading BPOs for FW LP? Then you get the community to voluntarily destroy the BPOs themselves.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1668	Posted - 2013.10.21 18:59:00 - [90] - Quote Some of the folks who run BPOs actually fight in the battles. What if they join the ranks of the redline people who hide for profit? I think removing BPOs only solves part of the issue.



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