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Announcement:Factional Contract Changes Introduction

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)

CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2810	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:48:00 - [1] - Quote So while we are already under way implementing the core of these changes, a lot of the specifics are still up for debate so we want to hear concise and reasoned feedback on everything. Please take the time to chew on this for a bit, ask questions if it's not clear then let us know where we might run into problems and why. Looking forward to hearing all the comments. Cheers.


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2813	Posted - 2013.10.19 07:27:00 - [2] - Quote Woo lots of feedback so far, thanks guys. We'll need a bit of time to discuss all the comments with the team. A couple of early tidbits though, basically stuff we have already discussed internally. Friendly Fire I can see us also doing a max TK per battle as well as the standings penalties. That was actually in the original design but we didn't include it in the notes here. I think of all the numbers and mechanics, the friendly fire penalties will be the area that undergoes the most change based on player feedback and just how well it plays out once we go live. We are acutely aware of how important it is to get the FF penalties in pubs correct. EVE Orbitals On my todo list is to add kill mails for OB, LP rewards and improve the locating of battles. We have some rough ideas for a battle finder in EVE to help the FW guys out. Making the district name visible in the war barge should be possible as well. We may do changing local for dust mercs in battle now that local is delayed and not leaking intel. We will very likely allow connected EVE pilots to talk and chat in the team channel. No ISK Faction warfare right now will not be a sustainable career on its own. There will be objections to this of course but we are doing it on purpose for some good reasons. There is quite a lot of ISK in dust and not a lot of things to spend the riches on, so items exclusive to FW as well as the progression in FW itself will be the motivation to spend some of that money. When the secondary market comes online (itshappening.gif) faction warfare specialist should be able to maintain it as an exclusive career. The other concern we have though is that faction warfare becomes more profitable in every way, leaving public contracts under populated. We still want to continue working on matchmaking, levels, game modes and rewards for public contracts and with the current dust population having this starved for players would be a negative overall. A healthy dust lifestyle in our mind includes playing a bit of public, FW and PC. This may change as the game grows however and specialising becomes more sustainable. With that all said, we are talking about this stuff early in the development and we're very happy to have out minds changed so let's keep the discussion going. o7


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2816	Posted - 2013.10.19 12:44:00 - [3] - Quote Absolute Idiom II wrote: Accidental Leak? Quote: EVE Orbitals On my todo list is to add kill mails for OB, LP rewards and improve the locating of battles. We have some rough ideas for a battle finder in EVE to help the FW guys out. Making the district name visible in the war barge should be possible as well. We may do changing local for dust mercs in battle now that local is delayed and not leaking intel. We will very likely allow connected EVE pilots to talk and chat in the team channel. Local in DUST has been delayed for a while now.


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2816	Posted - 2013.10.19 13:18:00 - [4] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: but they'll show up in Eve local, which will give a big hint that things are going down somewhere. Which might be okay, I guess, but i was expecting beacons, not local spikes :) That's fine, we want to be showing activity in DUST when it happens. We are more concerned about DUST accounts being used to dig up intel for EVE.


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2817	Posted - 2013.10.19 15:04:00 - [5] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: No ISK Faction warfare right now will not be a sustainable career on its own. There will be objections to this of course but we are doing it on purpose for some good reasons. There is quite a lot of ISK in dust and not a lot of things to spend the riches on, so items exclusive to FW as well as the progression in FW itself will be the motivation to spend some of that money. When the secondary market comes online (itshappening.gif) faction warfare specialist should be able to maintain it as an exclusive career. The other concern we have though is that faction warfare becomes more profitable in every way, leaving public contracts under populated. We still want to continue working on matchmaking, levels, game modes and rewards for public contracts and with the current dust population having this starved for players would be a negative overall. A healthy dust lifestyle in our mind includes playing a bit of public, FW and PC. This may change as the game grows however and specialising becomes more sustainable. Please look at this whole post. Who are you to tell us what game modes we should play to be considered having a "healthy lifestyle" in Dust? Isn't this supposed to be a sandbox? Your "good reasons" to remove the ISK penalty is punishing people who only do FW with an ISK sink? I am part of a corp that has been focused on FW since it was introduced in EVE. This is all we do. Now you're telling me in order to participate in FW I'm going to have to play pub matches for these randomly selected corps like Blood Raiders and Sansha's Nation? And while I'm fighting for these corps, my faction that I truly care about could be losing a district in FW that I otherwise would of been able to defend? I'm sorry Nullarbor, you're going to have to come up with a lot better reasoning than that. And look, I see your argument of "we still want people playing public matches" and that's great! But you can't FORCE us to play public matches. Why not instead have public matches pay more ISK while FW matches pay less ISK and LP. So basically Public Matches: Lots of ISK payout, no LP payout Faction Warfare: Small, but still there, ISK payout. LP payout. That would give people a reason to play public matches over FW without FORCING people to. FORCE being the key word. And again, as many have said, I'm fine with the removal of ISK from factional contracts if you gave us another way to make ISK that doesn't take time away that I could be spending defending my faction, like a player market where I can sell LP and salvage. But until then, FORCING us to play public matches is absolutely unacceptable. As I said we expect specialists will exist in the game, but that won't be sustainable until the player market comes online. Until then we're not compromising on our big picture plan, so you'll need to supplement it with pubs / PC / corp income etc


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2817	Posted - 2013.10.19 15:07:00 - [6] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Also in terms of team kills, I know there is no way to tell between an intentional TK and an accidental TK, but it really shouldn't matter. If you are TKing at all you are a liability to your team and should be punished (unless of course you are "TKing" someone who has already TKed to defend yourself"). Yeah it will suck for the person who gets too many accidental TKs and gets suspended from his faction for a long length of time, but that will teach him to be more careful. We will have a forgive option to cover accidental where the victim agrees it was an accident. I kinda like the suggestion about no TK penalty for squad mates as well. Will discuss that with the team.


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2820	Posted - 2013.10.19 15:33:00 - [7] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: As I said we expect specialists will exist in the game, but that won't be sustainable until the player market comes online. Until then we're not compromising on our big picture plan, so you'll need to supplement it with pubs / PC / corp income etc Since when was it a good practice in game development to release something before it was ready? If something won't be sustainable until something else arrives, then it needs to be delayed so they both arrive at the same time. Game development 101. I know you guys are excited about expanding FW as am I, but you can't get ahead of yourselves. As for supplements, I already made my point on pubs and PC is a terribly exclusive party with how few districts there are. Corp income on the other hand really shouldn't even be listed in my opinion, as right now corps have no way to get income aside from PC, which is already listed, and taxing players, which is through pubs and PC, both already listed. But that does bring up a good question, will corp tax apply to LP as well? It won't be too far behind, and experience tells me you guys will complain but manage just fine until the player market is rolled out. We could delay FW until everything is ready by that seems like a worse idea. No taxation on LP, corps do not have an LP wallet.


CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 2823	Posted - 2013.10.19 16:15:00 - [8] - Quote Avinash Decker wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: Woo lots of feedback so far, thanks guys. We'll need a bit of time to discuss all the comments with the team. A couple of early tidbits though, basically stuff we have already discussed internally. Friendly Fire I can see us also doing a max TK per battle as well as the standings penalties. That was actually in the original design but we didn't include it in the notes here. I think of all the numbers and mechanics, the friendly fire penalties will be the area that undergoes the most change based on player feedback and just how well it plays out once we go live. We are acutely aware of how important it is to get the FF penalties in pubs correct. EVE Orbitals On my todo list is to add kill mails for OB, LP rewards and improve the locating of battles. We have some rough ideas for a battle finder in EVE to help the FW guys out. Making the district name visible in the war barge should be possible as well. We may do changing local for dust mercs in battle now that local is delayed and not leaking intel. We will very likely allow connected EVE pilots to talk and chat in the team channel. No ISK Faction warfare right now will not be a sustainable career on its own. There will be objections to this of course but we are doing it on purpose for some good reasons. There is quite a lot of ISK in dust and not a lot of things to spend the riches on, so items exclusive to FW as well as the progression in FW itself will be the motivation to spend some of that money. When the secondary market comes online (itshappening.gif) faction warfare specialist should be able to maintain it as an exclusive career. The other concern we have though is that faction warfare becomes more profitable in every way, leaving public contracts under populated. We still want to continue working on matchmaking, levels, game modes and rewards for public contracts and with the current dust population having this starved for players would be a negative overall. A healthy dust lifestyle in our mind includes playing a bit of public, FW and PC. This may change as the game grows however and specialising becomes more sustainable. With that all said, we are talking about this stuff early in the development and we're very happy to have out minds changed so let's keep the discussion going. o7 What about players that don't try to team kill , but activity damage their teammates shields and their health close to zero? Or deliberately get in the way so your teammates kill you? How about once at the end of every one or two weeks you get isk based on your performance? Like I won 30 battles and received 5-10k wps at the end of the week (or more) I maybe receive about 1 million isk . This is a good point and something we have discussed already. Whether we should be tracking kills, damage done or maybe ISK destroyed. Kills are simple for now in that they can also be forgiven and are easy to track and explain to players. Flux grenading your whole just before a big skirmish is pretty lame though, so we'll keep chewing on that problem.