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First Prophet
Unkn0wn Killers
1192
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 18:55:00 -
[211] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:First Prophet wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Except First Prophet has no clue what he's talking about. Keep making up ridiculous lies and maybe people will start to believe them? How dare you, sir. I know exactly what I'm saying. I've read this sht. I've never once said such thing about you, why would you ever say that to me? I thought we were friends. You Amarr always leave us in tears. because hes amarr, and the amarr have the biggest diehard fanbois over every other race in dust. a lot like the "beliebers" So very true. I mean, I used to squad with them. But then they go and attack me so easily. Proof of Amarr evil right there. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2741
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 19:29:00 -
[212] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Void Echo wrote: you hold the title of the worst empire mainly because your the only openly religious biased based society in the game that is playable by people. .
Hmm, if that is so, was all of 1400's Europe evil? Because...you know....it was all catholic and biased as such.... What has real life modern society come to if people are equating "religious society" to "evil"? Smh its not the religious society that has granted you the title, it is your methods, much like the Christian crusades and the current muslim jihad. the main goal may be of good will, but your image will be forever tainted by your methods. people outside of the Christian faith saw the crusades as nothing but mindless killing much like how we outside of the empire see your war against the minmitar to be. Christian faith holders saw it as an upbringing to other people, either they accept god or they burn forever in hell, much like you amarr beliefs. but the muslim example is far worse. they see anyone who doesn't join their religion to be non-human and will not hesitate to kill anyone in their way.. all in the name of their god, much like the amarr... basically, the amarr are the combination of the past Christianity and the current islam. however, they do not see themselves as that, much like how the past Christians did not see themselves as biased murderers and the current muslim extremists see themselves as holy warriors. main difference between all 3 is that Christianity never had slaves and was in fact created by slaves, the muslims just kill and take no prisoners unless they convert, the amarr take slaves and convert them. for the amarr, they are forever tainted by the religious fanatic title because they invaded minmatar space, nearly destroyed all their civilization and took their prisoners to be enslaved, no matter the slavery type, violent or non-violent, slavery is already a evil word that gives the holder the worst view from anyone who hears of it. that is why people view the amarr as evil, because they enslaved the minmatar..... violent slavery and non-violent slavery, its still slavery. lol what? People still to this day judge Christians off actions of a few made some hudreds of years ago? And no, not all Christians supported crusades, that's just silly to even suggest. But yeah, let's forever judge Christians as mindless murders just as we should forever judge say a country like Germany as mindless murders?
Also Christianity is based around serving your fellow man, and Amarr slavery isn't really far off. Don't be confused with 17th/18th century slavery, that is not at all what is happening here. Think of it more as an indentured servitude to help bring these raises up to a high standard of living.
Again, you are associating "slavery" with "evil" because you are looking at 17th/18th century slavery on Earth. Slavery in Amarr is not a harsh, brutal, or violent lifestyle at all. It is entirely an upbringing, as these slaves will very quickly become full citizens of the empire. Anyone found acting with disrespect towards the slaves is a criminal by imperial law, so how is it fair to judge an entire empire off a small handful of criminals? Hey, I saw in the news earlier that some dude in America killed some other dude. Guess that means America stands for citizens killing citizens. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2741
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 19:32:00 -
[213] - Quote
First Prophet wrote:Void Echo wrote:First Prophet wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Except First Prophet has no clue what he's talking about. Keep making up ridiculous lies and maybe people will start to believe them? How dare you, sir. I know exactly what I'm saying. I've read this sht. I've never once said such thing about you, why would you ever say that to me? I thought we were friends. You Amarr always leave us in tears. because hes amarr, and the amarr have the biggest diehard fanbois over every other race in dust. a lot like the "beliebers" So very true. I mean, I used to squad with them. But then they go and attack me so easily. Proof of Amarr evil right there. I don't recall ever squadding with you. And we're not attacking you, we're attacking these false claims you have been making. Amarr don't beat their slaves, that is a fact. Anyone who does is a criminal, and I'm sure there are criminals in every society.
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Void Echo
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
1728
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 20:38:00 -
[214] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:lol what? People still to this day judge Christians off actions of a few made some hudreds of years ago? And no, not all Christians supported crusades, that's just silly to even suggest. But yeah, let's forever judge Christians as mindless murders just as we should forever judge say a country like Germany as mindless murders?
because today we live in a society that has 0 tolerance for violence of any kind whether it be defense or assault, all past actions committed by the human species that involves mass genocide are very much frowned upon. sane people do not blame others that are alive today for their ancestors actions. id also like to point out that you let out the muslims on this post, when in fact their religion does say to kill and annihilate any and all non-believers until only they are left.
Aero Yassavi wrote:Also Christianity is based around serving your fellow man, and Amarr slavery isn't really far off. Don't be confused with 17th/18th century slavery, that is not at all what is happening here. Think of it more as an indentured servitude to help bring these raises up to a high standard of living.
slavery is still slavery, no matter if its violent or non-violent as I already said, slavery has always been and will always be a word that people associate fully with oppression, genocide and plain cruelty towards another group or individual. nobody is going to change the definition of the word slavery just because a group of people that don't even exist on earth do not use slavery as we know it, it doesn't work like that. if that what you believe, then instead of calling it slavery you rename it something like reeducation, not slavery.
Aero Yassavi wrote:Again, you are associating "slavery" with "evil" because you are looking at 17th/18th century slavery on Earth. Slavery in Amarr is not a harsh, brutal, or violent lifestyle at all. It is entirely an upbringing, as these slaves will very quickly become full citizens of the empire. Anyone found acting with disrespect towards the slaves is a criminal by imperial law, so how is it fair to judge an entire empire off a small handful of criminals? Hey, I saw in the news earlier that some dude in America killed some other dude. Guess that means America stands for citizens killing citizens.
slavery no matter violent or non-violent is still slavery, we also have sex slavery and human trafficking basically another form of slavery.. it does not matter if a certain individual does something bad, if the entire community basically openly advocates the method used, then they are forever marked by it. your also confusing beliefs with actions. the actions of an individual do not represent the whole unless the whole openly says that's what they believe. again, the world is not going to change the definition of slavery just because you people do not use it in the way we are used to, mainly because you don't even exist in the real world. |
Llast 326
An Arkhos
229
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 20:38:00 -
[215] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote: I don't recall ever squadding with you. And we're not attacking you, we're attacking these false claims you have been making. Amarr don't beat their slaves, that is a fact. Anyone who does is a criminal, and I'm sure there are criminals in every society.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Slavery
This part may be relevant to the discussion "Methods of Control Most slaves in the Empire are controlled simply by violence or the threat of such. Overseers constantly patrol slave populations, making sure they are doing work and not misbehaving. Slaves who are not doing as they should may be beaten, isolated, denied sufficient or high quality food and water, or punished in some other methods.[29] However, some slave populations, such as those working on space ships or in dangerous mining colonies, or particularly troublesome and rebellious slaves, require more stringent methods.
In recent years, the most popular form of slave control has been the Vitoc method. The Vitoc method involves two steps. First, a slave is infected with a viral agent known as Vitoxin. Next, the slave is given a drug known as Vitoc. Vitoc not only staves off the multitude of physical effects of Vitoxin, it also induces mild euphoria. In this way, slaves can come to regard the Vitoc as a reward rather than a method of control.[15]
This method was widely used by the time of the Elder War, which led to widespread chaos when Insorum, a permanent cure to Vitoxin, was deployed over slave worlds. The slaves, freed of their addiction, rebelled and joined the invaders against the Amarr.[18]
With the advent of Insorum, older methods of control have begun to regain popularity. Slave collars are a bulky piece of equipment that fits around a slave's neck. The collars are fitted with needles filled with a variety of chemicals, some deadly, others merely incapacitating. If necessary, overseers can remotely trigger the slave collars and inflict whatever punishment is deemed appropriate.[9]
Transcranial microcontrollers have seen limited use throughout the Empire. These small chips convince those implanted that they are experiencing a variety of situations; with slaves, this is typically to convince them they are not enslaved.[30] For many years, the chips were not used due to cost[31], but following the failure of Vitoc, they came into wider use. However, they are considered controversial in the Empire, as many believe they undermine the religious reasons the Amarr keep slaves.[32]
The slaver hound, a large canid, is often used on plantations and planetary populations. The animals, a native of Syrikos V, are typically allowed to roam free outside of fenced in areas. They are often trained to view slaves, particularly those running, as prey. Their mere presence dissuades slaves from attempting escape, as they can easily outrun a man and are intelligent enough to ambush prey.[13]" |
Phazoid
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
50
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 20:40:00 -
[216] - Quote
hey we offer people the oportunity to be integrated into the amarr culture, they need to pass some sort of trial known as slavery, to gain full social status and be recognized as amarr, also we have slaverhounds, big hyena-like dogs, very lovable, but they eat people so dont forget to feed them or you may be they next lunch, on another note i support everything BUT the religion in the amarr regime, it just blinds people, also as we expand we offer more people to join us, other races just kill eveyone or use them as pow, we enslave them, but with the very real posibility of full amar social status. |
SgtDoughnut
Red Star Jr. EoN.
262
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 20:43:00 -
[217] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Slag Emberforge wrote:As someone who didn't come from EVE I don't know much more about the racial lore than is provided in Dust, but the most self-centered of all the races is pretty clearly spelled out as Amarr.
They take what they want because its their deity given right and duty to do so.
With that said I had to rally behind minmatar, as they seem to fight for [i]something that matters,[/i ]what had been denied them by their oppressors/owners. Except the Amarr aren't oppressors, I mean unless you consider providing schools and hospitals, food and shelter, oppressing. But I understand you only know what it told to you in Dust, so it makes sense that you would come to this conclusion.
If by schools, hospitals, food and shelter you mean a collar that injects a neurotoxin at the owners whim. |
Void Echo
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
1728
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 20:44:00 -
[218] - Quote
Phazoid wrote:hey we offer people the oportunity to be integrated into the amarr culture, they need to pass some sort of trial known as slavery, to gain full social status and be recognized as amarr, also we have slaverhounds, big hyena-like dogs, very lovable, but they eat people so dont forget to feed them or you may be they next lunch, on another note i support everything BUT the religion in the amarr regime, it just blinds people, also as we expand we offer more people to join us, other races just kill eveyone or use them as pow, we enslave them, but with the very real posibility of full amar social status.
amarr version of offering something: full invasion of said society and complete and near annihilation of the civilization, kidnapping its citizens and taking them where they will never leave.
il go with the normal version of the word offering.
im glad I openly oppose and fight you hypocrites.. however the only amarrian I like to debate against is adamance. |
First Prophet
Unkn0wn Killers
1192
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 20:48:00 -
[219] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:I don't recall ever squadding with you.
Now that's incredibly hurtful. We did FW. :(
And yes. You guys are pretty cruel.
Quote:A normal man would have screamed at the scorching agony unleashed by the shockwhip. Instead, the slave merely picked his mining laser off the ground and switched it back on, continuing with his work as though nothing happened. The Amarrian guard, staring at the fresh wounds on the manGÇÖs back, considered delivering a second blow. A slave numbed to pain was difficult to control, and besides, replacements were due to arrive at any moment should this one perish. ... The guard wound his arm back and struck again. Sparks exploded from the slaveGÇÖs back, and this time he crumpled to the ground in a heap. The cauterized wounds intersected the previous marks, creating an approximate visage of the Sign..
Reaching against the cavern walls for support, the slave struggled to pull himself back onto his feet. Waves of excruciating pain pulsed through his wiry frame. He was terrified of each surgeGÇönot for its physical torment, but for the cruel reminder that death continued to elude him. If there was a time in this manGÇÖs life that was not plagued by anguish, then its memory had long since been lost. Besides pain, all he knew was that he was damned for the crime of not being Amarrian by birth
http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/communityassets/pdf/shortstories/Theodicy_All.pdf That sounds pretty damn cruel to me. |
Void Echo
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
1728
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 20:49:00 -
[220] - Quote
Honestly the main topic that shows how weak amarr is, is the jove war.
When you amarrians found the jove, they were in a weakened state due to their crippling disease that they are still trying to find a cure for, you saw opportunity to take them over and attempted to destroy them. you failed, miserably I might add and ran back to your home planet with your tails up your asses. if they weren't so weakened by their disease at the time, you would offered to become allies like you did with the caldari in hopes and plans that one day in the future, when they are weak, you would make your move.
the only thing keeping you from attacking the caldari is the fact that they have a powerful military capable to defeating you in an all out war if we aren't fighting them. |
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Dengru
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
132
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 21:15:00 -
[221] - Quote
I fail to see how what the amarr do to minmatar and others are indentured servitude?There also is an economic component to having inexhaustible reserves of labor that falls outside of whatever wage system the amarr have. Also the attempts to destroy the Minmatar culture mimics what happened in the first wave of chattel slavery in western europe/the americas.
When I first started looking into the lore, it struck me how gross all of this stuff was and how CCP seemed to pile on alot of lore for RP while not really addressing the socio-political-economic aspects and historical analogs of the amarr/minmatar situation... and then wonder why so many people are immediately repelled by them |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2204
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 21:43:00 -
[222] - Quote
Why the Amarr are not evil
Is owning a cow wrong? Why not? Because it is an animal? Why is it not wrong to "own" an animal (I never believe I own an animal in reality but just play along)? Humans do not consider the ownership of animals wrong because humans believe the animals to be below them and thus can be treated as lessers.
However PETA would say otherwise, all things equal. They'd find owning a pet as wrong as slavery. However in reality there is a sort of chain. Animals eat other animals after all, as an efficient means of energy and protein. Equals don't eat eachother, there is a food chain and thus a hierarchy. And really it's alright to participate in the hierarchy, because in order to become the top dog, you must participate in the hierarchy.
'War Crimes' are determined by the winners
As of right now, the Amarr own FW. They are the winners right now. Therefore, they can dictate what is a crime and what is good. Therefore, the Amarr are good because they have won, they define what is good. Owning a slave can not make them bad, when they say it is good.
Therefore they can not be evil unless they say they are, but they aren't saying that. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2857
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 21:56:00 -
[223] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:True Adamance wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Enslaving, expansionist, religious zealots? The Amarr empire is by far the worst. Ha you should look around New Eden. We are the only things holding back half the Sani Sabik Cults from Empire space. Those are the really bad people. Fanatics with no sense of a forgiving God, who would happily blood children and clones for their barbaric and debased rituals, those who would affect your minds with implants and technologies to make you a part of the Hive Mind. We clothe and feed our slaves, we love and care for them as no one else in this vast cluster would, or could. We try to educate our peoples to the right paths, to make them whole in God's eyes so that they shall not sin against their creator and damn their selves for eternity. Shall I bring up the extremist Caldari who bombed an underwater Gallentean city, killing Billions. Sansha's Nation who take captives to the Darkest regions of space to do god knows what. Shall I mention the lawless Angel Cartel, so deep in corruption and murder that they cannot see the light. And you wish to call us, who wish only the best of intentions, the unity of mankind, and the formations of One galaxy spanning people are evil. You are ignorant and have no knowledge of the universe. I can only hope one day the Matari see that and cast you out as you deserve. you hold the title of the worst empire mainly because your the only openly religious biased based society in the game that is playable by people. if sansha's nation or the black ravens or whatever they are called were an option to be playable, they would hold the title of the worst empire in new eden.
I still cannot understand why people bring their scepticism and hatred of religion from RL into a game, nor do I understand this eras inherent mistrust and dislike of people who wan to believe their is something more in their lives than the utterly depressing and generally horrible arms of humanity they deal with. |
First Prophet
Unkn0wn Killers
1192
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:00:00 -
[224] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Void Echo wrote:True Adamance wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Enslaving, expansionist, religious zealots? The Amarr empire is by far the worst. Ha you should look around New Eden. We are the only things holding back half the Sani Sabik Cults from Empire space. Those are the really bad people. Fanatics with no sense of a forgiving God, who would happily blood children and clones for their barbaric and debased rituals, those who would affect your minds with implants and technologies to make you a part of the Hive Mind. We clothe and feed our slaves, we love and care for them as no one else in this vast cluster would, or could. We try to educate our peoples to the right paths, to make them whole in God's eyes so that they shall not sin against their creator and damn their selves for eternity. Shall I bring up the extremist Caldari who bombed an underwater Gallentean city, killing Billions. Sansha's Nation who take captives to the Darkest regions of space to do god knows what. Shall I mention the lawless Angel Cartel, so deep in corruption and murder that they cannot see the light. And you wish to call us, who wish only the best of intentions, the unity of mankind, and the formations of One galaxy spanning people are evil. You are ignorant and have no knowledge of the universe. I can only hope one day the Matari see that and cast you out as you deserve. you hold the title of the worst empire mainly because your the only openly religious biased based society in the game that is playable by people. if sansha's nation or the black ravens or whatever they are called were an option to be playable, they would hold the title of the worst empire in new eden. I still cannot understand why people bring their scepticism and hatred of religion from RL into a game, nor do I understand this eras inherent mistrust and dislike of people who wan to believe their is something more in their lives than the utterly depressing and generally horrible arms of humanity they deal with. If you want to believe there's a higher power that's fine and no one has a problem with that.
But once you start enslaving and shock whipping people using religion as an excuse, people then take issue with that. Also, please stop touching the choir boys.
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True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2863
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:12:00 -
[225] - Quote
First Prophet wrote:True Adamance wrote:Void Echo wrote:True Adamance wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Enslaving, expansionist, religious zealots? The Amarr empire is by far the worst. Ha you should look around New Eden. We are the only things holding back half the Sani Sabik Cults from Empire space. Those are the really bad people. Fanatics with no sense of a forgiving God, who would happily blood children and clones for their barbaric and debased rituals, those who would affect your minds with implants and technologies to make you a part of the Hive Mind. We clothe and feed our slaves, we love and care for them as no one else in this vast cluster would, or could. We try to educate our peoples to the right paths, to make them whole in God's eyes so that they shall not sin against their creator and damn their selves for eternity. Shall I bring up the extremist Caldari who bombed an underwater Gallentean city, killing Billions. Sansha's Nation who take captives to the Darkest regions of space to do god knows what. Shall I mention the lawless Angel Cartel, so deep in corruption and murder that they cannot see the light. And you wish to call us, who wish only the best of intentions, the unity of mankind, and the formations of One galaxy spanning people are evil. You are ignorant and have no knowledge of the universe. I can only hope one day the Matari see that and cast you out as you deserve. you hold the title of the worst empire mainly because your the only openly religious biased based society in the game that is playable by people. if sansha's nation or the black ravens or whatever they are called were an option to be playable, they would hold the title of the worst empire in new eden. I still cannot understand why people bring their scepticism and hatred of religion from RL into a game, nor do I understand this eras inherent mistrust and dislike of people who wan to believe their is something more in their lives than the utterly depressing and generally horrible arms of humanity they deal with. If you want to believe there's a higher power that's fine and no one has a problem with that. But once you start enslaving and shock whipping people using religion as an excuse, people then take issue with that. Also, please stop touching the choir boys.
((That's and opinion you have there and no one gave you the right to judge anyone else or anything else, however I think the distinctions come in here, with a doubt standard applying to the Amarr, with a tradition of belief in an almighty god, thousands of years of entitlement is something that I think makes them act in the ways they do, the honestly believe that the are sanctions by a higher power to do what must be done to unite the galaxy whether this is right or wrong is not important only that people understand why it is done. More often than not Void/Prophet you know the what for's and hows but never bothered to acknowledge the why's.)) |
First Prophet
Unkn0wn Killers
1193
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:32:00 -
[226] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:First Prophet wrote:True Adamance wrote:Void Echo wrote:True Adamance wrote: Ha you should look around New Eden.
We are the only things holding back half the Sani Sabik Cults from Empire space.
Those are the really bad people. Fanatics with no sense of a forgiving God, who would happily blood children and clones for their barbaric and debased rituals, those who would affect your minds with implants and technologies to make you a part of the Hive Mind.
We clothe and feed our slaves, we love and care for them as no one else in this vast cluster would, or could. We try to educate our peoples to the right paths, to make them whole in God's eyes so that they shall not sin against their creator and damn their selves for eternity.
Shall I bring up the extremist Caldari who bombed an underwater Gallentean city, killing Billions.
Sansha's Nation who take captives to the Darkest regions of space to do god knows what.
Shall I mention the lawless Angel Cartel, so deep in corruption and murder that they cannot see the light.
And you wish to call us, who wish only the best of intentions, the unity of mankind, and the formations of One galaxy spanning people are evil. You are ignorant and have no knowledge of the universe. I can only hope one day the Matari see that and cast you out as you deserve.
you hold the title of the worst empire mainly because your the only openly religious biased based society in the game that is playable by people. if sansha's nation or the black ravens or whatever they are called were an option to be playable, they would hold the title of the worst empire in new eden. I still cannot understand why people bring their scepticism and hatred of religion from RL into a game, nor do I understand this eras inherent mistrust and dislike of people who wan to believe their is something more in their lives than the utterly depressing and generally horrible arms of humanity they deal with. If you want to believe there's a higher power that's fine and no one has a problem with that. But once you start enslaving and shock whipping people using religion as an excuse, people then take issue with that. Also, please stop touching the choir boys. More often than not Void/Prophet you know the what for's and hows but never bothered to acknowledge the why's.)) I know and understand the why's just fine. I more than bothered to understand the why's. The why's just do not excuse the how's. And nobody likes entitled people. The forums are entitled enough without having a lore reason for it.
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Void Echo
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
1729
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 23:34:00 -
[227] - Quote
True Adamance wrote: ((That's and opinion you have there and no one gave you the right to judge anyone else or anything else, however I think the distinctions come in here, with a doubt standard applying to the Amarr, with a tradition of belief in an almighty god, thousands of years of entitlement is something that I think makes them act in the ways they do, the honestly believe that the are sanctions by a higher power to do what must be done to unite the galaxy whether this is right or wrong is not important only that people understand why it is done. More often than not Void/Prophet you know the what for's and hows but never bothered to acknowledge the why's.))
there is only one "why", you do it because you say your god demands it. |
Pvt Numnutz
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
262
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 01:03:00 -
[228] - Quote
As a fellow caldari I can tell you that the gallente are evil. Their people are puppets, slaves if you will to their "elected" officals. How many gallente know that their government controls the serpentis and guristas? They are warmongeres obsessed with power and will stop at nothing to further their agenda of bringing "freedom" to all and growing their military industrial machine. Too put it simply america in space.
The caldari do have value of human life, though we will make nessasary sacrifises for the state. We opperate on the idea that only the merited should rule, and if tibus proves to be an ineffective leader then he will be replaced by one more merited than himself. Look into the time that tibus took power, we were weak, and corrupted by gallente thinking. Those in power did not deserve to be there, but were instead put into power by corrupt high ranking officals too much like the gallente.
Our great leader ended that corruption and those truly merited for those positions were givin the jobs they rightfully deserved. I'm tiered of corruption and military complexes, I want a nation that wants to focus on wealth prosperity and technology. So I choose and fight for caldari. |
MINA Longstrike
One Shot Killahz
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 01:04:00 -
[229] - Quote
First Prophet wrote:True Adamance wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Slag Emberforge wrote:As someone who didn't come from EVE I don't know much more about the racial lore than is provided in Dust, but the most self-centered of all the races is pretty clearly spelled out as Amarr.
They take what they want because its their deity given right and duty to do so.
With that said I had to rally behind minmatar, as they seem to fight for [i]something that matters,[/i ]what had been denied them by their oppressors/owners. Except the Amarr aren't oppressors, I mean unless you consider providing schools and hospitals, food and shelter, oppressing. But I understand you only know what it told to you in Dust, so it makes sense that you would come to this conclusion. But forcing them to live in one area without leaving said area, beating them to your will, and making them do horrible jobs is. Except slaves aren't beaten, and they are not forced to do horrific jobs, it is our duty to take care of them. They can leave and be where they wish as soon as we know they are on the right path. Except that's a total lie. You guys beat them super hard.
Among the nicer amarran families slaves would have been what they were like in the roman empire - an actual legal caste whose owners hold all sorts of important LEGAL obligations to them. Some 'slaves' entered into their position willingly and hold a much higher position in life than if they'd done so otherwise. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2866
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 01:07:00 -
[230] - Quote
That's more what it is like.
I think people get this idea that the slave sleep in a long house out in the wastelands somewhere, only called when they need to work, I don't this this is accurate. Amarrian slaver from what I have read are more like indentured servants, they wont claim a wage, no, but they are clothed and fed well, taken care of, and in some cases a deserved few are educated in standard Amarr tradition. |
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True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2866
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 01:08:00 -
[231] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:True Adamance wrote: ((That's and opinion you have there and no one gave you the right to judge anyone else or anything else, however I think the distinctions come in here, with a doubt standard applying to the Amarr, with a tradition of belief in an almighty god, thousands of years of entitlement is something that I think makes them act in the ways they do, the honestly believe that the are sanctions by a higher power to do what must be done to unite the galaxy whether this is right or wrong is not important only that people understand why it is done. More often than not Void/Prophet you know the what for's and hows but never bothered to acknowledge the why's.))
there is only one "why", you do it because you say your god demands it. But do you understand why we say that? That is the "what not the why. |
First Prophet
Unkn0wn Killers
1194
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Posted - 2013.10.12 01:09:00 -
[232] - Quote
True Adamance wrote: That's more what it is like.
I think people get this idea that the slave sleep in a long house out in the wastelands somewhere, only called when they need to work, I don't this this is accurate. Amarrian slaver from what I have read are more like indentured servants, they wont claim a wage, no, but they are clothed and fed well, taken care of, and in some cases a deserved few are educated in standard Amarr tradition.
Quote:A normal man would have screamed at the scorching agony unleashed by the shockwhip. Instead, the slave merely picked his mining laser off the ground and switched it back on, continuing with his work as though nothing happened. The Amarrian guard, staring at the fresh wounds on the manGÇÖs back, considered delivering a second blow. A slave numbed to pain was difficult to control, and besides, replacements were due to arrive at any moment should this one perish. ... The guard wound his arm back and struck again. Sparks exploded from the slaveGÇÖs back, and this time he crumpled to the ground in a heap. The cauterized wounds intersected the previous marks, creating an approximate visage of the Sign..
Reaching against the cavern walls for support, the slave struggled to pull himself back onto his feet. Waves of excruciating pain pulsed through his wiry frame. He was terrified of each surgeGÇönot for its physical torment, but for the cruel reminder that death continued to elude him. If there was a time in this manGÇÖs life that was not plagued by anguish, then its memory had long since been lost. Besides pain, all he knew was that he was damned for the crime of not being Amarrian by birth
http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/communityassets/pdf/shortstories/Theodicy_All.pdf
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True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2867
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Posted - 2013.10.12 01:38:00 -
[233] - Quote
First Prophet wrote:True Adamance wrote: That's more what it is like.
I think people get this idea that the slave sleep in a long house out in the wastelands somewhere, only called when they need to work, I don't this this is accurate. Amarrian slaver from what I have read are more like indentured servants, they wont claim a wage, no, but they are clothed and fed well, taken care of, and in some cases a deserved few are educated in standard Amarr tradition.
Quote:A normal man would have screamed at the scorching agony unleashed by the shockwhip. Instead, the slave merely picked his mining laser off the ground and switched it back on, continuing with his work as though nothing happened. The Amarrian guard, staring at the fresh wounds on the manGÇÖs back, considered delivering a second blow. A slave numbed to pain was difficult to control, and besides, replacements were due to arrive at any moment should this one perish. ... The guard wound his arm back and struck again. Sparks exploded from the slaveGÇÖs back, and this time he crumpled to the ground in a heap. The cauterized wounds intersected the previous marks, creating an approximate visage of the Sign..
Reaching against the cavern walls for support, the slave struggled to pull himself back onto his feet. Waves of excruciating pain pulsed through his wiry frame. He was terrified of each surgeGÇönot for its physical torment, but for the cruel reminder that death continued to elude him. If there was a time in this manGÇÖs life that was not plagued by anguish, then its memory had long since been lost. Besides pain, all he knew was that he was damned for the crime of not being Amarrian by birth
http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/communityassets/pdf/shortstories/Theodicy_All.pdf I have never claimed that all Holders are good holders, in many circumstances you must consider that the punishment for disregarding Heiderans laws are being reduced to slavery yourself.
Shall I bring such pointed and weighted excerpts from lore about how Minmatar are brutal and violent, unable to accept that the Ammatar like it in the empire?
Now one thing you did here that you probably don't want other people to know about this it you took the excerpt from the original Reclaiming of the MInmatar, at that time such laws by Hiederan were not well establish, or practically non existant. It was his legacy as a peacemaker that defined the laws by which the Amarr treat their slaves to this day, so at the time of this excerpt you are talking about the Amarr mistreating them before their moral code forbid them from doing so.
Heideran was widely accepted as a peacemaker and one of the core reasons why New Eden has enjoyed the relative peace and stability is has to this day.
Since the Rebellions such acts have been ladled as unforgivable and punishable by slavery itself. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
305
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 04:12:00 -
[234] - Quote
First Prophet wrote:True Adamance wrote:First Prophet wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:First Prophet wrote: Someone add more evil things the list I'm too lazy to. :\
You should take the number one slot on the list of evilness for fabricating ones own words to pursue your own agenda! That makes you the most evil. All I do is make jokes. Lazily too. I'm chaotic neutral at worst. Gallente Chaotic EVIL! Neutral Good for the Amarr. Lawful Evil for the Gravelords! Amarr are lawful evil. Gallente are chaotic neutral. Caldari are true neutral. Minmatar are chaotic good. Amarr= Lawful Evil (The law of God above all else) Caldari= Lawful Good ( For the good of the people) Gallente= Chaotic Evil (Power, Sex and Drugs) Minmatar= Chaotic Good (Angry but have good intentions)
That being said. I support Amarr/Caldari, because the Caldari are the most good IMHO and the Amarr have the best plans for the future.
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Coleman Gray
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
799
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 05:00:00 -
[235] - Quote
Amarr are evil, like the *** they use religion as an excuse for their atrocities. The Amarr make the japanese during WWll look like gentlemen, and they got a letter from the ****'s asking them to tone down. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2870
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Posted - 2013.10.12 05:15:00 -
[236] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:Amarr are evil, like the *** they use religion as an excuse for their atrocities. The Amarr make the japanese during WWll look like gentlemen, and they got a letter from the ****'s asking them to tone down.
You are too biased on the matter.
The Amarr are a combination of half a dozen religious groups and civilisations all formed into one pseudo Roman Empire like structure.
If you are going to ***** about atrocities then please consider the losses of the MInmatar Rebellions both sides lost millions of civilians in the conflict, the Minmatar, much like the Amarr were unwilling to spare their enemies even down to women and children. Consider the Gallente's bombardment of Caldari Prime killing millions of innocent souls who merely wanted their independence in the name of their imperialistic, expansionist, and gospel you call Freedom.
Consider the Caldari Templis Dragonaurs who bombed Nouvelle Rouvenour killing many millions of Gallenteans.
Consider the Murder of Karen Midular and 53 innnocents, or the aggressive actions of the Matari "Revenge" Fleet that killed hundred of Gallenteans and thousands more Matari crew men.
Think hard. All of the factions have committed atrocities in the names of their causes. What makes religion so much worse than Greed and Solitude, Freedom and Corruption, Revenge and Brutality. What makes your reasons so much better.
Unlike the Caldari and Minmatar, both the Amarr and Gallente both want a unified Galaxy, one under the power of corrupt officials but with unlimited freedoms and unlimited horrors, one under a God capable of inspiring absolute freedoms and horrors. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
319
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 05:46:00 -
[237] - Quote
Sigh.
Folks, let's please remember that this is a fictional universe and a noir setting. Virtually everybody's corrupt in some way or other. The game's utopians (Sansha's Nation) are so twisted they're the equivalent of the freaking Borg. By the same token, even the most barbaric groups often show a surprising depth of humanity.
Among the four empires, the Amarr happen to show their darkness, by our standards, in particularly vivid colors, combining both some of the brighter and darker aspects of the Roman Empire and Spanish conquistadors, glory blended with horrid abuse.
Of course, the Minmatar, as a culture, have gotten so carried away with rage that they sent dreadnoughts against an ally to try to retrieve one man, the Caldari are about six meters (six important meters) from being fascists, and the Gallente have a military adventurist streak that matches their streak of self-righteousness and are the only empire to have ever actually BECOME verifiably flat-out fascist.
Let's also please remember that, Tony G the melodramatist aside, these are nation states we are talking about. Jamyl Sarum could be coalesced evil incarnate, and the average Amarrian citizen would still just be a person, with good points and bad, probably religious and probably disagreeing with us, sitting here, now, about a lot of stuff, but almost certainly possessing a conscience and more concerned with making a living and keeping the family fed and clothed than with interstellar politics.
To my fellow roleplayers: some of you are talking in character. I highly recommend cutting it out; this isn't the place and it's no skin off your nose whether people think of your faction as evil, OOC. (Among other things, many folks like rooting for the bad guys.) Furthermore, answering in character won't change whether people think of the Amarr as evil; at most, you can demonstrate that they don't consider themselves evil, which was pretty obvious from the get-go. Few people do, even when they're horrendously wrong about a great many things.
Welcome to a world of swirling grays. This is Eve. This is noir. There are no true heroes. Everyone is tainted. Nobody is pure. If you think you're pure, you're probably a villain because of it.
Good luck. |
Atiim's Amarr Kamikaze
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 06:02:00 -
[238] - Quote
Clearly Amarr is the best race. We only enslave people try to expand our empire at all costs and enslave everyone trying to speak their opinion.
Get the point? |
Thurak1
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
272
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Posted - 2013.10.12 06:04:00 -
[239] - Quote
All of them. They are all giant corps full of greed and run by corruption. |
Tupni
Capital Acquisitions LLC Public Disorder.
38
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 06:21:00 -
[240] - Quote
In a realm of unbiased rational thought, absent from divinity, there is no such thing as "Good" or "Evil", only indifference and ambiguity.
It is only by the presence of The One True Amarr God that True Righteousness exists, and through their adherence and worship of the Amarr God's teachings that the Amarr race distinguishes itself as objectively Good.
Therefore in their absence of faith, even rebellious opposition, so the other, inferior races, denote themselves as being truly Evil.
:D |
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