also funny he should mention this because I had to fight a tank being supported by a logi lav for the first time today. 4 people shooting at it with swarm launchers couldn't break those reps.

don't get used to it, everything will change after next month, I just want a respect so that when the jets come, il be able to get them.. that's all I want now

also funny he should mention this because I had to fight a tank being supported by a logi lav for the first time today. 4 people shooting at it with swarm launchers couldn't break those reps.

its sounds fun just like mercs and all that.. but av is so strong to take down tanks so easy i would imagine all that other fancy rubbish will be just squishier targets for this overwhelming AV... i mean it makes no since to use a tank when you can call in an LAV with 4k shields that will not die unless you do something really stupid... i dont get why lav is so much stronger than a tank besides the speed factor... i mean my lav takes shots better than my tanks

So you're complaining that a dedicated AV fit designed to kill vehicles are good at killing vehicles?

That's hilarious.

So you're complaining that a dedicated AV fit designed to kill vehicles are good at killing vehicles?

That's hilarious.

So you're complaining that a dedicated AV fit designed to kill vehicles are good at killing vehicles?

That's hilarious.

No. He's not. You're hilarious.

i dont think you read the post... av on top of towers that i cant shoot at... how is that balanced? its kind of one sided right?

i dont think you read the post... av on top of towers that i cant shoot at... how is that balanced? its kind of one sided right?

In that sense it is balanced, the AV runner took the tactical initiative, and you didnt get outta dodge fast enough and fed him a HAV.

it never fails when you put a little intelligence into something that someone dumb comes in and is like dur dur dur

also funny he should mention this because I had to fight a tank being supported by a logi lav for the first time today. 4 people shooting at it with swarm launchers couldn't break those reps.

In that sense it is balanced, the AV runner took the tactical initiative, and you didnt get outta dodge fast enough and fed him a HAV.

No. He's not. You're hilarious.

there is no indicator to even tell me he went up there.... i cant see him up there cause the rendering is off.... im just gettin hit markers on me and losing hp and its not balanced at all.... av can just shoot to far thats point blank

there is no indicator to even tell me he went up there.... i cant see him up there cause the rendering is off.... im just gettin hit markers on me and losing hp and its not balanced at all.... av can just shoot to far thats point blank

That really isnt part of the whole AV/HAV debate then and more so towards 'CCP please fix this bs in general'. I personally hate FG on buildings because they wreck my DS but I tend not to fly them after the first encounter and snipe the bastard.

Be adaptable man, your in a top corp have your boys who are scouting ahead call out threats or something, I dunno, but its much safer to be out of harms way than infront of it, and area denial tactics are just as good as outright killing HAV sometimes. Make a nerf FG thread ill give you likes for that ****.

infantry AV should never be allowed to render farther than tanks until the day when a forge gun costs more than a 2.5 mil isk tank

but hey, lai dais and a proto assault forge for like 50k.....add invisibility and who wouldn't? Right?

i dont think you read the post... av on top of towers that i cant shoot at... how is that balanced? its kind of one sided right?

They are still pretty expensive considering heavies are SLOWER than tanks and DONT PACK 8000+ EHP, and we die a lot more in almost every single game.....

That's the point. AV is supposed to be one sided. They are anti-vehicle, so they're supposed to be really good at killing vehicles.

If everything in this game resulted in a balanced fight, then a scout would be just as good against a tank as an AV fit.

The downside of AV is that they suck against other infantry. Yes, they are pretty good at ******* up your tank, but that's the entire point.

They are still pretty expensive considering heavies are SLOWER than tanks and DONT PACK 8000+ EHP, and we die a lot more in almost every single game.....

That's the point. AV is supposed to be one sided. They are anti-vehicle, so they're supposed to be really good at killing vehicles.

If everything in this game resulted in a balanced fight, then a scout would be just as good against a tank as an AV fit.

The downside of AV is that they suck against other infantry. Yes, they are pretty good at ******* up your tank, but that's the entire point.

That's the point. AV is supposed to be one sided. They are anti-vehicle, so they're supposed to be really good at killing vehicles.

If everything in this game resulted in a balanced fight, then a scout would be just as good against a tank as an AV fit.

The downside of AV is that they suck against other infantry. Yes, they are pretty good at ******* up your tank, but that's the entire point.

i dont just die to av... i die to av in massive numbers and av on top of buildings....

no, they dont. proto assault forges top the kill charts

Then IDK, do something proactive about it. Recall your vehicle while the enemy is switching to AV. Get a squad to back you up and protect you. Don't go out in the open where there are high places, or don't call in a vehicle on Line Harvest at all.

but when your on top of a building with no one shooting at you.... speed and hp is not a factor anymore

Then IDK, do something proactive about it. Recall your vehicle while the enemy is switching to AV. Get a squad to back you up and protect you. Don't go out in the open where there are high places, or don't call in a vehicle on Line Harvest at all.

Same for a tank Sniping behind a mountain in Manus peak.....

In the AV vs Vehicle war, the one with better position wins.
Thats a fact.

Same for a tank Sniping behind a mountain in Manus peak.....

In the AV vs Vehicle war, the one with better position wins.
Thats a fact.
Tanks have more speed and more EHP.
Heavies are overall cheaper with similar firepower.

Then IDK, do something proactive about it. Recall your vehicle while the enemy is switching to AV. Get a squad to back you up and protect you. Don't go out in the open where there are high places, or don't call in a vehicle on Line Harvest at all.

Heavies are overall cheaper with MORE firepower.

Same for a tank Sniping behind a mountain in Manus peak.....

In the AV vs Vehicle war, the one with better position wins.
Thats a fact.
Tanks have more speed and more EHP.
Heavies are overall cheaper with similar firepower.

lurch man lets squad up get on dust damn it

lurch man lets squad up get on dust damn it

its an imbalanced that needs to be fixed, it takes an entire ******* team to kill a single LAV and yet it takes only one ****** to kill an enemy tank.. that's not right at all.

Wrong, and LAV no. An LLAV maybe depending upon the player driving the vehicles skill point investment. The main factor in whether a vehicle is easy or hard to kill. Something everyone seems to forget when they QQ.

''
LOL similar firepower

3000 =/= 2000''

Bro our weapons are made to take out TANKS.
Your weapons are used to kill 400-1100 EHP infantry and in rare occasions OTHER tanks, which both having the same DPS makes the Tanks Vs Tank Fight balanced....

OR am i wrong..?

As long as AV can get on top of buildings and shoot all the way to the ground there will be no balance. Why stand on the ground and fight a tank when you can just go to the top of a building and spam av from nano hives from that one spot until you blow up said tank. This is why I really am hoping that I get a respec. No matter how you do av vs. tanks av will always win because they have the option of gettin higher ground which, 1 the game doesnt render what is on top of building from inside tank, 2 i couldnt shoot that far if i wanted to.. 3 can i have a respec? i honestly would love nothing more than to spec out of vehicles i have lost more money than tanks are worth no doubt

we are full at the moment... if you want i will inv you when we get a spot

your wrong

''
LOL similar firepower

3000 =/= 2000''

Bro our weapons are made to take out TANKS.
Your weapons are used to kill 400-1100 EHP infantry and in rare occasions OTHER tanks, which both having the same DPS makes the Tanks Vs Tank Fight balanced....

OR am i wrong..?

because its easier to drive up to a tank in a cherydbis hope out throw 3 lai dais fire 1 swarm and move onto the next tank
youre welcome

because its easier to drive up to a tank in a cherydbis hope out throw 3 lai dais fire 1 swarm and move onto the next tank
youre welcome

Care to elaborate a little on that?

I mean its not Like i care if Tanks end up doing 5000 damage, i mean they are tanks.but you need to understand FGns need the damage they have in other to be able to take out these tanks...

''
LOL similar firepower

3000 =/= 2000''

Bro our weapons are made to take out TANKS.
Your weapons are used to kill 400-1100 EHP infantry and in rare occasions OTHER tanks, which both having the same DPS makes the Tanks Vs Tank Fight balanced....

OR am i wrong..?

they just want to alpha vehicles... this arguement will go on and on... just let me spec out of them and use a logi LAV that is indestructable

Isnt the counter to that HAV want to be invincible and only damaged by other HAV? Dont hate on things because you cant deal with it, dont be so biased if your not prepared to look at everything on a equitable basis.

Isnt the counter to that HAV want to be invincible and only damaged by other HAV? Dont hate on things because you cant deal with it, dont be so biased if your not prepared to look at everything on a equitable basis.

i made a topic and it went from my topic to av being overpowered which was never stated in original topic... how am i biased?

this community is so ignorant

As long as AV can get on top of buildings and shoot all the way to the ground there will be no balance. Why stand on the ground and fight a tank when you can just go to the top of a building and spam av from nano hives from that one spot until you blow up said tank. This is why I really am hoping that I get a respec. No matter how you do av vs. tanks av will always win because they have the option of gettin higher ground which, 1 the game doesnt render what is on top of building from inside tank, 2 i couldnt shoot that far if i wanted to.. 3 can i have a respec? i honestly would love nothing more than to spec out of vehicles i have lost more money than tanks are worth no doubt

and the AV guys are the ones who changed it. cant have a real discussion about the games cause it is just kids out of school looking to win on the forums instead of ingame

I was thinking that when I noticed you contributed absolutely nothing to this thread.

I took out one of your tanks last night in ambush (on an alt).

I didn't do it alone though, there was at least one other forge gunner taking shots at you as well.

Was I on a building? Yes. Was that a cheap move? No. But why?

Any suit, even a heavy, stands no chance against a tank with 2-3 gunners (heck even one gunner in a blaster can take out any suit in the blink of an eye). So if you expect somebody to perform a Tiananmen Square move against you because that is more "fair", think again. Anything I can do to make it harder for you to find and kill me, the better.

Plus if I am on a building and out of sight, I am a lot less vulnerable to all the infantry roaming the grounds below with AR's that can insta-kill me.

One thing you don't realize, if we are high up, it actually makes it easier for you to get in cover. All you had to do last night to save your tank and it's gunners, was to back up a good 10 feet to get underneath the lip of the building, and I wouldn't have been able to make any shots. But like most tankers out there, you expect to be invincible so you go rushing out into the open, even after being hit with several forge shots a few seconds prior.


And BTW, stay out of bush with your tanks, it's players like you that ruin that mode and make players hate tankers even more. Stay in skirmish where tanks and the majority of vehicles belong. Otherwise you're just going to keep pissing people off by using an OP crutch (yes, in ambush tanks are very OP) and the overpowering ring of "nerf tanks" will resonate louder than you guys saying "buff tanks".

I took out one of your tanks last night in ambush (on an alt).

I didn't do it alone though, there was at least one other forge gunner taking shots at you as well.

Was I on a building? Yes. Was that a cheap move? No. But why?

Any suit, even a heavy, stands no chance against a tank with 2-3 gunners (heck even one gunner in a blaster can take out any suit in the blink of an eye). So if you expect somebody to perform a Tiananmen Square move against you because that is more "fair", think again. Anything I can do to make it harder for you to find and kill me, the better.

Plus if I am on a building and out of sight, I am a lot less vulnerable to all the infantry roaming the grounds below with AR's that can insta-kill me.

One thing you don't realize, if we are high up, it actually makes it easier for you to get in cover. All you had to do last night to save your tank and it's gunners, was to back up a good 10 feet to get underneath the lip of the building, and I wouldn't have been able to make any shots. But like most tankers out there, you expect to be invincible so you go rushing out into the open, even after being hit with several forge shots a few seconds prior.


And BTW, stay out of bush with your tanks, it's players like you that ruin that mode and make players hate tankers even more. Stay in skirmish where tanks and the majority of vehicles belong. Otherwise you're just going to keep pissing people off by using an OP crutch (yes, in ambush tanks are very OP) and the overpowering ring of "nerf tanks" will resonate louder than you guys saying "buff tanks".

first off tanks in ambush isnt very smart... i mean its bad enough when i get 3 guys after me but in ambush i get an entire team... i usually lose tanks in ambush and i have never even liked the game mode... so its not players like me... if you think i play ambush ask around in my corp and find out that i HATE ambush... i like an objective based game mode

and fyi i didnt ask for a buff.... i asked for a better playing field rather than some ass hat going on top of a building that i have no chance to kill him

I see quite a lot of successful tankers owning face in bush, probably because the maps are smaller, which makes it harder for forge and swarmers to find a 'perch' which forces us to get in close (which results in a quick death). And even if there is a good place to go, it may take a while to reach it and the matches are over in about 7 mins. So by the time we get to a nice spot, the tank has either moved on or the match is over.

Plus since the area is more condensed, tankers can often stick with their blob of teammates, making it a living hell trying to get AV close enough to the tank or to reach the right spot without dying to infantry. And lastly, since it is ambush, players are expecting to fight other infantry, not vehicles (although that attitude has changed a lot as of late due to all the vehicle abuse in bush).

Over the last few nights I have seen you and a few other SVER players in bush pretty often. One match it seemed like your entire team was rolling around in LLAV's, it was brutal being on the other side.

I hear you, snipers are pretty much the identical to AV at a distance for tankers, I would imagine. Getting hit from some unknown direction and having a large chunk of health instantly taken away, and 100% unable to fight back. Popping out of cover only to be hit again, forcing us to be dormant or try to find another spot.

You get CCP to do something about these snipers vs us distance AVer's and I may sympathize with your situation. Until then, we have our problems with invisible snipers from unknown locations distance plunking us, and you have you're issues with invisible AV distance plunking you. Guess that makes us even.

no, it doesnt. people can counter snipers. they have no health. infantry cant counter sniper a heavy with a thousand health when you just pull back and sit on a nanohive and uplinks. snipers cant snipe tanks. forges top the kill charts.

People can counter AV too, and it happens all the time when I am a heavy forge gunner. Most of the time it isn't the tank or vehicle that counters me, it's the other infantry who are close-by. Same goes for a sniper vs a forge gunner. Snipers are often too far out for me to hit (or see), and if that sniper is specifically hunting me, there is no way in hell I could line up a long distance shot (if the sniper is in range) before he puts 4-5 rounds into my head. And if I have swarms? 100% vulnerable to a sniper.

Not to mention 99% of the time I have absolutely no idea where the sniper even is. HUD hit detection markers are pretty much useless when it comes to snipers. I just see a crap ton of health drop and hope I run away in the right direction to get out of his line-of-sight.

Snipers to a forge gunner is the same as forge gunners to a tanker, in almost every aspect.

i dont like ambush.... simply said... im not goin to try to explain to you that i dont like callin in tanks in ambush im a shield tank not an armor tank that can actually tank... i play what my squad puts me in... i dont spam tanks in ambush.... this isnt about me.... this is about why av can spam me from the top of buildings... with all this being said i just wanna spec out of them so i can run infantry 100% my 15 mil sp would be much better put into infantry

honestly, in the current state of the game, if you are tower forging and still getting sniped, thats no ones fault but your own

I can count on one hand how many times I have tower forged, it's pretty great but pretty rare somebody has an uplink there or I get a ride.

But are you trying to say being on the tower somehow makes players impervious to sniper fire? They can easily reach that height, and even if they can't kill the heavy up there, the heavy has little chance of doing anything productive if he is being camped by a sniper and gets popped every time he sticks his head out.

Yeah, the only match I saw you bring in a tank was that one (and heck, maybe you were just riding along in it I dunno, although I swore that your name popped up first on the kill-feed).

But any tank in bush, unless it's another tank to counter a tank the enemy team brought in, is destroying that mode. So I am glad you don't make a habit of it.


But yeah, I sort of feel the same way with my Calogi suit that got over-nerfed. Heck, I haven't played this account for a month or longer (I AFK it) just because the suit to me is crap now (plus I got bored of the AR). Which is why I play an alt so I can try other things and get an idea of what I want to spend the 2+ million SP I have been building up on my main, cause I know CCP isn't going to give me a respec. So I just have to save up until I can afford something else.

So I'm with you on the respec.

As long as AV can get on top of buildings and shoot all the way to the ground there will be no balance. Why stand on the ground and fight a tank when you can just go to the top of a building and spam av from nano hives from that one spot until you blow up said tank. This is why I really am hoping that I get a respec. No matter how you do av vs. tanks av will always win because they have the option of gettin higher ground which, 1 the game doesnt render what is on top of building from inside tank, 2 i couldnt shoot that far if i wanted to.. 3 can i have a respec? i honestly would love nothing more than to spec out of vehicles i have lost more money than tanks are worth no doubt

FYI, I've seen plenty of tanks on top of buildings and high rooftops, pounding infantry. Especially rail tanks. And if you have a rail tank on a building, there're no getting them off short of an Orbital Strike(and that might not even work).

It works both ways, noob. Tankers are just as guilty of rooftop abuse as AV.

As long as AV can get on top of buildings and shoot all the way to the ground there will be no balance. Why stand on the ground and fight a tank when you can just go to the top of a building and spam av from nano hives from that one spot until you blow up said tank. This is why I really am hoping that I get a respec. No matter how you do av vs. tanks av will always win because they have the option of gettin higher ground which, 1 the game doesnt render what is on top of building from inside tank, 2 i couldnt shoot that far if i wanted to.. 3 can i have a respec? i honestly would love nothing more than to spec out of vehicles i have lost more money than tanks are worth no doubt

you should read thru this as i even say tanks shouldnt be on them either.... read before you make yourself look like a ass hat like you just did

Oh lol, so Mobile Infantry should not get ontop of rooftops, where do you want them then? Lined up unable to move when the game starts against a wall?

Makes sense...

It should be

Tanks >Kill> Infantry >Kill> AV Infantry >Kill> Tanks

are you really arguing the fact that people can go up to buildings and shoot down AV at vehicles? Seems you want everyone to rush your tank with their forges and swarms. When I see a lot of AV's on top of buildings shooting at my tank, I simply go to their blind spot, or have my squad mates shoo them off their pillar of power.

also funny he should mention this because I had to fight a tank being supported by a logi lav for the first time today. 4 people shooting at it with swarm launchers couldn't break those reps.

I dunno. every 1 always crying bout tankers and av. asking for respects coz they cant own with there tank anymore. bitching bout turrets and how they need to be destroyed otherwise they hurt ur precious tank.. but when they redline sniping, or spawn point raping or on rooftops shooting down on everything then its ok.

The reason ppl bring out av is coz others bring out vehicles. it will never stop. Why should ground forces NOT bring av when pusy tankers are spawn point raping?? and then when they die they go ***** that av is over powered. Well try shooting a real tank with 5 rockets at the same time i think it will burn up pretty fast. Av for tankers is just as annoying as tankers are for others.

So deal about it or skill for something else instead of crying for a respect so u can get something else FOTM OP.

+1 for av

I dunno. every 1 always crying bout tankers and av. asking for respects coz they cant own with there tank anymore. bitching bout turrets and how they need to be destroyed otherwise they hurt ur precious tank.. but when they redline sniping, or spawn point raping or on rooftops shooting down on everything then its ok.

The reason ppl bring out av is coz others bring out vehicles. it will never stop. Why should ground forces NOT bring av when pusy tankers are spawn point raping?? and then when they die they go ***** that av is over powered. Well try shooting a real tank with 5 rockets at the same time i think it will burn up pretty fast. Av for tankers is just as annoying as tankers are for others.

So deal about it or skill for something else instead of crying for a respect so u can get something else FOTM OP.

+1 for av

Ted and Lurch must have a hard time with every infantry man invisible firing invisible weapons. Poor ted even unable to comprehend the limitations of his main turrets elevation as he sits at the base of a tower wondering why hes getting shat on.

Easily the most dumb **** idiots ive ever seen on this forum, and thats saying a lot. Really, they need more mods on this forum its hard and annoying to get good indepth discussions of balance with my comrades sitting on the other side of the fence when you got trolls like these 2 dipshits.

everything about your post is wrong.

we ask for a respec because they are doing an entire overhaul of the vehicle/AV system, so they get a respec too.

i dont ***** about turrets, i kill them. YOU ***** about turrets.

i dont complain about redline sniping, i complain about INVISIBLE sniping.

this is like talking to a brick wall

Ted and Lurch must have a hard time with every infantry man invisible firing invisible weapons. Poor ted even unable to comprehend the limitations of his main turrets elevation as he sits at the base of a tower wondering why hes getting shat on.

Easily the most dumb **** idiots ive ever seen on this forum, and thats saying a lot. Really, they need more mods on this forum its hard and annoying to get good indepth discussions of balance with my comrades sitting on the other side of the fence when you got trolls like these 2 dipshits.

Lurch! Quick Question sensei, just wondering if I can pick your brain for a moment. I saw that video you did with Lowratehitman, and I was just wondering. Without being specific about your fit or anything, is it still possible with the current PG restrictions to field a madrugar with three armor hardeners and a rep?

Lurch! Quick Question sensei, just wondering if I can pick your brain for a moment. I saw that video you did with Lowratehitman, and I was just wondering. Without being specific about your fit or anything, is it still possible with the current PG restrictions to field a madrugar with three armor hardeners and a rep?

FYI, I've seen plenty of tanks on top of buildings and high rooftops, pounding infantry. Especially rail tanks. And if you have a rail tank on a building, there're no getting them off short of an Orbital Strike(and that might not even work).

It works both ways, noob. Tankers are just as guilty of rooftop abuse as AV.

Ted and Lurch must have a hard time with every infantry man invisible firing invisible weapons. Poor ted even unable to comprehend the limitations of his main turrets elevation as he sits at the base of a tower wondering why hes getting shat on.

Easily the most dumb **** idiots ive ever seen on this forum, and thats saying a lot. Really, they need more mods on this forum its hard and annoying to get good indepth discussions of balance with my comrades sitting on the other side of the fence when you got trolls like these 2 dipshits.

that video is prett outdated on numbers....you can still do it, but you will be severely lacking in dps.

Ha! Sweet! That's all I needed to know. I'm a weasel tanker, all I care about is surviving.

As long as AV can get on top of buildings and shoot all the way to the ground there will be no balance. Why stand on the ground and fight a tank when you can just go to the top of a building and spam av from nano hives from that one spot until you blow up said tank. This is why I really am hoping that I get a respec. No matter how you do av vs. tanks av will always win because they have the option of gettin higher ground which, 1 the game doesnt render what is on top of building from inside tank, 2 i couldnt shoot that far if i wanted to.. 3 can i have a respec? i honestly would love nothing more than to spec out of vehicles i have lost more money than tanks are worth no doubt

soooooooo when a tank is on a high spot (on top of buildings, on a mountain in red line, etc) this is not advantageous to the tank?

im sorry, maybe im missing something, but i figure high ground is only as useful as the first unit/person to claim it. i cant even remember how many times i have been rail sniped by a tank from an elevated position that i cant even see.

dude, i get your frustration, but i think its just something we ALL will have to deal with, regardless of play style, unless the Devs ban all usage of rooftops n mountains. Snipers on a roof, AV on a roof, Tanks on a roof, all are just a deadly given the right shooter. (thing is not everyone on a roof is deadly to a tank, but most on the roof are deadly to infantry)

funny im always gettin shot and no idea where it came from let me pull up the map... ooo there they are on top of that building which i cant even shoot at

and i dont promote tanks on buildings either... that is just stupid

stupid, but it happens! and its effective, usually those guys lose only one fit, if at all any.

that one fit puts him in the red for 10 matches

should have got his ass away from the edge of the building then. if one see themselves getting shot........ move to where you are not. on top of a building that is a simple as reversing to where you are out of the line of sight of the the AV.

then you might be interested in speccing into active scanners for your maddy. its nice because for 100m of a radial scanner that has a 20 seconds pulse for a 5 econd cooldown, all you gotta do is use a high slot :)

seeing th enemy coming when in close quarters is a huge advantage, especially when you hear that nanohive being dropped and that dude is getting ready to spam tthose av nades

Figured out how to get three hardeners for my fit, I just had to drop from 180 plates to 120. Yowzers, that damage reduction was good times. I just killed two gunlogis and a silica. Couldn't believe they kept coming at me. I definitely see now why Vehicle vs. vehicle is so much fun. I could have lasted that entire match, if I wasn't a dumb ass and didn't try to go after the Swarm launcher that took me down.

and really, what tank driver doesn't see that they are getting hit by an AV? they may not be able to pinpoint where its coming from, but they usually know they are taking damage. the smart ones get ghost until they can identify the threat, and either avoid/crush the culprit.

i'll tell you, even with my Adv Forge, i usually only kill the slow/stupid/over confident Tank drivers. the savvy ones never let me get off 3 shots on them before they have either taken me out, or high-tailed it. the cost is high admittedly, but as said before, im a firm believer that with the right squad tanks are a very durable and viable option.


eg: last night, in a Skirmish battle on the Map with the objective on the bridge , im on an elevated position, and there is a tank cruising between D, A (on the bridge) and E. it hit him once (he knows im here, but not where), i hit him again, and before i could get him the 3rd time he took cover....... he repped up and came out, i slap him again. he then runs to cover under the bridge and repps up again. cant remember what happened after that, i think i got preoccupied killing the little ants (infantry) but i know i didnt get to kill that tank. the drive was too smart to get caught in the open for me to do any lasting damage.

saying tank drivers are stupid for not moving away from AV fire while simultaneously acknowledging that that AV fire is coming from an invisible guy, and also acknowledging that the damage indicator is lying seems pretty stupid to me

and really, what tank driver doesn't see that they are getting hit by an AV? they may not be able to pinpoint where its coming from, but they usually know they are taking damage

this is what i saw and comprehended as so. if that was not your meaning, then i misunderstood you and thats my bad

read my above post where I have already said sniping heavies on a tower doesnt work

hence the problem with tower forges. and people keep telling me to counter snipe them and expect me to just go, "Oh, wow! What a great idea!"

no, the heavy will simply pull back on the tower and sit on a hive. snipers dont have the dps to ohk a heavy and its not like the heavy has any intention of actually being near the fight anyway. that is the problem.

and really, what tank driver doesn't see that they are getting hit by an AV? they may not be able to pinpoint where its coming from, but they usually know they are taking damage. the smart ones get ghost until they can identify the threat, and either avoid/crush the culprit.

i'll tell you, even with my Adv Forge, i usually only kill the slow/stupid/over confident Tank drivers. the savvy ones never let me get off 3 shots on them before they have either taken me out, or high-tailed it. the cost is high admittedly, but as said before, im a firm believer that with the right squad tanks are a very durable and viable option.


eg: last night, in a Skirmish battle on the Map with the objective on the bridge , im on an elevated position, and there is a tank cruising between D, A (on the bridge) and E. it hit him once (he knows im here, but not where), i hit him again, and before i could get him the 3rd time he took cover....... he repped up and came out, i slap him again. he then runs to cover under the bridge and repps up again. cant remember what happened after that, i think i got preoccupied killing the little ants (infantry) but i know i didnt get to kill that tank. the driver was too smart to get caught in the open for me to do any lasting damage.

but when said Heavy gets brave again

to be fair Ted, there is no (single) AV that can fire off enough volleys to kill a smart tank driver that has a decent Turbo equipped and is aware of his escape route. (ie. the smart tank driver wont get caught in the open with no escape route either, so they kinda negate each other)

Lurch, i think we will be in eternal disagreement on this one (funny as we are arguing re immortal fighters and im a part-time AV and u a tank driver). yes some will do that, but if you are encountering this on each map that you run, then you are one unlucky chap. i DO see them on (unrechable) elevated positions, especially in some of the PC battles that i have managed to play, but to say that its the case in every match.... well it's not what i encounter, and definitely not how i play.

i dont waste my time on ambush, and i hate dom. i play the game mode that matters and it happens without fail, especially once the tank comes out. Simply saying, "Well, I didn't see anything." doesnt work. If that was the case murderers would never get caught.

especially as an AV user, assuming a good tank has a turbo or even should have one is like me saying any good AV user shuold have profile dampening and its their fault for getting spotted. Doesn't work that way.

so in your opinion vehicles, tanks in particular, are not viable at all in this build of the game, irrespective of tactics?
i see you are asking for a respec, and i actually agree with your stance since it seems the changes to the class will be so drastic as to change the feel of the gameplay all together, but is this something you 2 believe is irreparable or that the level design needs to be overhauled too?

i am of the opinion that no matter how good AV is, i believe i am simplly better than other people and i will kill them anyway. If an enemy team squad leader gets on comms and says, "Guys, focus on that tank" then it should be a very big problem. I would just like to be able to see the guys who are shooting at me. I would like AV to lose money when i kill them instead of just going, "Oh well, that was only 150k isk anyway" I would like for all the people with tunnel vision to realize that a weapon that you can get without speccing into it for av, which homes in, does more damage than most AV weapons themselves, can be fit on any suit, costs 15k isk, and can be replenished faster than you can throw is simply a bad game mechanic and takes the purpose of an AV role away.

Tanks choose between railguns or blasters for AI or AV. Infantry can simply throw lai dais on next to that swarm, ar, md or smg. Oh yeah, swarms lock on too.. We dont have countermeasures, we dont get a lock warning, we no longer can see a charge animation when a forge is charging, we no longer get pg, armor, or shields from any of our skills, unlike infantry.......would you like me to go on?

So you're complaining that a dedicated AV fit designed to kill vehicles are good at killing vehicles?

That's hilarious.

to be fair Ted, there is no (single) AV that can fire off enough volleys to kill a smart tank driver that has a decent Turbo equipped and is aware of his escape route. (ie. the smart tank driver wont get caught in the open with no escape route either, so they kinda negate each other)

Lurch, i think we will be in eternal disagreement on this one (funny as we are arguing re immortal fighters and im a part-time AV and u a tank driver). yes some will do that, but if you are encountering this on each map that you run, then you are one unlucky chap. i DO see them on (unrechable) elevated positions, especially in some of the PC battles that i have managed to play, but to say that its the case in every match.... well it's not what i encounter, and definitely not how i play.

i am of the opinion that no matter how good AV is, i believe i am simplly better than other people and i will kill them anyway. If an enemy team squad leader gets on comms and says, "Guys, focus on that tank" then it should be a very big problem. I would just like to be able to see the guys who are shooting at me. I would like AV to lose money when i kill them instead of just going, "Oh well, that was only 150k isk anyway" I would like for all the people with tunnel vision to realize that a weapon that you can get without speccing into it for av, which homes in, does more damage than most AV weapons themselves, can be fit on any suit, costs 15k isk, and can be replenished faster than you can throw is simply a bad game mechanic and takes the purpose of an AV role away.

Tanks choose between railguns or blasters for AI or AV. Infantry can simply throw lai dais on next to that swarm, ar, md or smg. Oh yeah, swarms lock on too.. We dont have countermeasures, we dont get a lock warning, we no longer can see a charge animation when a forge is charging, we no longer get pg, armor, or shields from any of our skills, unlike infantry.......would you like me to go on?

Yes. Please continue. Especially about the part of not having counter measures.

The expected reply... "u mad bro"

Infantry can simply throw lai dais on next to that swarm, ar, md or smg. Oh yeah, swarms lock on too.. We dont have countermeasures, we dont get a lock warning, we no longer can see a charge animation when a forge is charging, we no longer get pg, armor, or shields from any of our skills, unlike infantry.......would you like me to go on?

No Bubba. What he is saying is that the amount of isk/Sp it's takes to use Proto Av's is significantly lower than compared to what it takes to skill into and use tanks. How would you feel if a proto swarm launcher cost you 3 mil isk and then you get ran over by a lav?...exactly.

Care to elaborate a little on that?

I mean its not Like i care if Tanks end up doing 5000 damage, i mean they are tanks.but you need to understand FGns need the damage they have in other to be able to take out these tanks...

You are wrong because you do not need to "take out" a tank to accomplish your job as AV. As long as you keep us out of the fight you are doing your job. The fact that a Dropsuit can solo a tank and actually take it out is where the imbalance truly lies. Tactics should always reign supreme but when a single infantry dressed in a 100k Dropsuit can chuck 3 nades and follow that up with a volley or two from their choice of primary AV weapon to destroy a 2.8 million ISK tank with a 13 million SP driver tactics are pretty much useless.

To the OP's point this situation is exacerbated by the render issues among other things. But the main problem is that it should take a team to kill a tank and a tank should always fall to a well coordinated and equipped team. But as long as tanks can be solo'd by those who invest less in terms of both SP and ISK an insurmountable imbalance will remain. I am not saying AV is "over powered" because it's not necessarily AV damage that is the problem: it is the risk vs reward. Right now for AV there is barely any risk and the reward is limited only by the amount of vehicles on the field. For tanks the risks are too numerous to list and any rewards can really only be achieved when AV is not present. Remember: if a tank goes 30-1 this is not a successful outng as they still lost in the long run. They will have to play anywhere from 2-10 games without any losses to recoup the losses from that one death.

i've put in bold that part because i wholeheartedly agree. just the presence of an AV should scare a tank, and moving the tank should give your team the advantage on that particular patch of the map.

Im an AV (part time Forge Gun) user, and i support that sentiment. deterring the tank so you have map supremacy should be the primary objective, killing it should be the icing on the cake, IMHO. (which is why i stated in earlier posts that the smart drivers tend to run when thy are outgunned, thus saving the tank)

Well forge gunners are for tanks what snipers are for infantry, its exactly the same out of nowhere insta death, only thing is we lose 100-200k isk and tanks 2 mil, thAts something ccp needs to change, lower the prive on tanks A LOT, or make them Stronger so they survive more shots.

Okay, I am going to be upfront as possible. I use Lai Dai's and I WILL come after tanks if I see one on the map. That being said, I CANNOT solo a tanker if he keeps moving. Let me say that again. I CANNOT EVER kill a tanker if he consistently moves around the map.

With that being said, you cannot say that my Lai Dai's are OP. You cannot complain about people chucking Lai Dai's from a higher point and dying. My question to you is this:
Why are you in the middle of the map with a tank? Do you see me running my dropsuit in the middle of 16 guys and expect me to survive? No!

If I was to see a shotgunner in the distance and see him hide behind the crate...do you think that I will attack him by going right up against the crate and turning the corner? NO! You wanna know why? Because I will get blasted in the face and die in one shot.

Its called tactics...use them! A smart person would always keep their distance from shotgunners and always keep an eye on them instead of closing the distance. The same goes for those tankers who charge at infantry. Granted I will give you that you can't tell if they have AV or not. BUT...if I was a tanker, I would assume that all dropsuits have AV weapons. I have no sympathy for tankers who charge at dropsuits. I have no sympathy for stupidity. I do not care if you get 4 kills in a tank while you are at a safe distance because that is being a SMART tanker. I cannot kill you with my Lai Dai's if you are at a safe distance.

The problem is that these tankers want to live the life that was back in chrome. They want to go around a small circle ambush match and get 20+ kills every match without losing a tank.

The price of your tank equals your k/d. I don't hear you complaining about your k/d ratio on here. Everything is about ISK. But its perfectly okay to go around and go 20-0 on a battlefield but then complain that you lost a 3 mil tank and went 14-1. I mean cut me a break. Go respec and join us on the battlefield in a dropsuit. The next thing we will hear from tankers is that their k/d is too low and that their character ALONE needs to be buffed to get that high k/d that they got in a tank.

If you are a tanker...I applaud you. But just don't be stupid and you won't lose a tank. Period.

As long as AV can get on top of buildings and shoot all the way to the ground there will be no balance. Why stand on the ground and fight a tank when you can just go to the top of a building and spam av from nano hives from that one spot until you blow up said tank. This is why I really am hoping that I get a respec. No matter how you do av vs. tanks av will always win because they have the option of gettin higher ground which, 1 the game doesnt render what is on top of building from inside tank, 2 i couldnt shoot that far if i wanted to.. 3 can i have a respec? i honestly would love nothing more than to spec out of vehicles i have lost more money than tanks are worth no doubt

this comment CCP is from one of the best tankers in this game since beta . hit ur archive tab an just search his name
he has countless threads about tanks.

I suggest you take an experts opinion into consideration.

this comment CCP is from one of the best tankers in this game since beta . hit ur archive tab an just search his name
he has countless threads about tanks.

I suggest you take an experts opinion into consideration.

While I don't run tanks (anymore) I can honestly say they are catching the shaft on the AV/HAV conflict you don't need to be a tanker or an av user to know when something is too powerfull AV granades for example are FAR over the line considering what they are : an extremely powerful contact grenade that locks onto it's target. Could you imagine if we had an anti infantry granade that did that? The forums would explode and you know why: because it's BS, anyone who thinks something like that is balanced is wrong in the head period that's not a tactical advantage or a balancing mechanic it's insanity.

we did have that once... the forums blew up with QQing from the infantry, as a result, they got removed.... but that only happened because the infantry complained about it, if anything else complains about something, that thing gets buffed

Yeah I know but if I start talking about stuff from 'back then' the new guys tune me out lol

........nah......

we did have that once... the forums blew up with QQing from the infantry, as a result, they got removed.... but that only happened because the infantry complained about it, if anything else complains about something, that thing gets buffed

While I don't run tanks (anymore) I can honestly say they are catching the shaft on the AV/HAV conflict you don't need to be a tanker or an av user to know when something is too powerfull AV granades for example are FAR over the line considering what they are : an extremely powerful contact grenade that locks onto it's target. Could you imagine if we had an anti infantry granade that did that? The forums would explode and you know why: because it's BS, anyone who thinks something like that is balanced is wrong in the head period that's not a tactical advantage or a balancing mechanic it's insanity.

it dont matter if its a building that is so high i cant see what is up there or if its just a structure like the bridge map where a is between d and e and they both have that little structure... AV is going to get on top of buildings no matter what... im over vehicles not performing to the degree of the cost.... i just want to spec out of them once and for all

I just wanted to quote this so it was posted twice.

Actually it is balanced. There are trade offs. That vehicle can be fit with modules to increase survivabilty, and sp invest can increase hit points. When infantry goes against a vehicle LAV or what ever we fit AV grenades that can only be used against vehicels. That AV grenade can only lock onto its target if its within a certain range. A range close enough for you to run us over, unless we are on high ground. If a LAV or LLAV goes boom and you are aware enough to exit we have to defend ourselves. That Vehicle is actually like having another merc on the field.

we did have that once... the forums blew up with QQing from the infantry, as a result, they got removed.... but that only happened because the infantry complained about it, if anything else complains about something, that thing gets buffed

this comment CCP is from one of the best tankers in this game since beta . hit ur archive tab an just search his name
he has countless threads about tanks.

I suggest you take an experts opinion into consideration.

So because you are "one of the best tankers" according to someone in STB you should have a say above everyone else? Kinda like all of the Exmaplecore posts on here should also be so high and mighty above everyone else as well. Some complaints given by him are about how Lai Dai's are too strong.
Do you mean the exact same Lai Dai's that I threw at his shield rail tank that brought him to half shields? Oh by the way...I threw 6 Lai Dai's at him. Yeah....6!

Why don't you just list every possible weapon in this game that can kill a tank and ask for it to be removed from the game. Seriously....
See my above posts for all the stupidity that I see when I kill tanks.

Did I end up killing Exmaplecore in my example? No...because he is a good tanker in this game. But it is down right hilarious to read posts by "good" tankers complaining about the only thing that can actually kill them. If you are a "good" tanker, then you should receive more isk in your tank than you actually lose it. If you run out of isk, then use militia gear like the rest of the people in this game.
But wait...that would mean that you would have to be in militia gear!!! OMG!! Your poor k/d. Wait wait wait....is that the true reason about all of this? You can get more isk by spawning free dropsuits which clears up the isk problem...but your 10.0 k/d would be ruined!!
Nerf all AV WEAPONS! Give me a break...

He is not "one of the best" HE IS THE BEST! And that "someone in STB" guy...is THE CEO.

I run proto Minmatar Logi with a GEK and Lai Dai's

And please, go post that video of you with all of your STB buddies while I run SOLO
How many tanks do you guys call in a match? The most that I have ever seen is five. Do you know what they said before the match even started.
"Nobody spawn in any vehicles so that we can spawn in five tanks"
The outcome of that skirmish match:

We LOST with five tanks on the field. FIVE. What did they do? Pad their K/D ratio like all of you bums. Go get your respec and skill out of your tank so that we can finally stop hearing you guys whine and so that I can blast your face.

I also love how you say that you run me over and over again like its 10 times...and then say you did it twice. LOL

Oh my! I am sorry your highness. I didn't know that you were THE BEST and the CEO of STB. Where are my manners Lol

As long as AV can get on top of buildings and shoot all the way to the ground there will be no balance. Why stand on the ground and fight a tank when you can just go to the top of a building and spam av from nano hives from that one spot until you blow up said tank. This is why I really am hoping that I get a respec. No matter how you do av vs. tanks av will always win because they have the option of gettin higher ground which, 1 the game doesnt render what is on top of building from inside tank, 2 i couldnt shoot that far if i wanted to.. 3 can i have a respec? i honestly would love nothing more than to spec out of vehicles i have lost more money than tanks are worth no doubt

it takes 15s of continous swarm shooting to kill a well fitted high SP armor tank with proto swarms. what have you done in those 15s? let me guess, you stand still thinking that you should not die, right? and your turrets have plenty of range, there is no need to get close to squads into AV nade range and if you are constantly moving and not camping like a scrub AV nades are no threat.

Okay, I am going to be upfront as possible. I use Lai Dai's and I WILL come after tanks if I see one on the map. That being said, I CANNOT solo a tanker if he keeps moving. Let me say that again. I CANNOT EVER kill a tanker if he consistently moves around the map.

With that being said, you cannot say that my Lai Dai's are OP. You cannot complain about people chucking Lai Dai's from a higher point and dying. My question to you is this:
Why are you in the middle of the map with a tank? Do you see me running my dropsuit in the middle of 16 guys and expect me to survive? No!

Actually it is balanced. There are trade offs. That vehicle can be fit with modules to increase survivabilty, and sp invest can increase hit points. When infantry goes against a vehicle LAV or what ever we fit AV grenades that can only be used against vehicels. That AV grenade can only lock onto its target if its within a certain range. A range close enough for you to run us over, unless we are on high ground. If a LAV or LLAV goes boom and you are aware enough to exit we have to defend ourselves. That Vehicle is actually like having another merc on the field.

Uhh, yes there is...it's called a breach forge gun. And for the cheap price of about 1mil SP and 47k isk you can 2-shot something that costs 9.2milSp and 3.3mil isk.

+75

"Void Echo's Clone Died"

haha such a sweet moment

Honestly though, its no supprise you loose a ton of tanks, when your driving through the middle of the map with a ******* RAIL turret, lmao, how do you expect to kill av with a fecking a rail.....

i shouldnt really have to give you tips, but you should learn2missile

So because you are "one of the best tankers" according to someone in STB you should have a say above everyone else? Kinda like all of the Exmaplecore posts on here should also be so high and mighty above everyone else as well. Some complaints given by him are about how Lai Dai's are too strong.
Do you mean the exact same Lai Dai's that I threw at his shield rail tank that brought him to half shields? Oh by the way...I threw 6 Lai Dai's at him. Yeah....6!

Why don't you just list every possible weapon in this game that can kill a tank and ask for it to be removed from the game. Seriously....
See my above posts for all the stupidity that I see when I kill tanks.

Did I end up killing Exmaplecore in my example? No...because he is a good tanker in this game. But it is down right hilarious to read posts by "good" tankers complaining about the only thing that can actually kill them. If you are a "good" tanker, then you should receive more isk in your tank than you actually lose it. If you run out of isk, then use militia gear like the rest of the people in this game.
But wait...that would mean that you would have to be in militia gear!!! OMG!! Your poor k/d. Wait wait wait....is that the true reason about all of this? You can get more isk by spawning free dropsuits which clears up the isk problem...but your 10.0 k/d would be ruined!!
Nerf all AV WEAPONS! Give me a break...

Ted..good friend... It is just not "TANKS"... people go to "High Places" and try to kill anything... People made these youtube videos teaching players how to do it.... and for some strange reason it ruins the game.... and those same people get a pat on the back for teaching others how to do it...

It was no different when the players was MCC sniping... or even being able to kill people from that location behind their redline.

Spkr calling someone an idiot...BaHa
Keep thrown' them stones and u won't have any house left.

Maybe so but its still hilarious how all u tankers keep crying.

ik. it's almost as hilarious about the infantry complaining about lavs, the melee glitch, mass drivers, forge guns, ars....i could go on. All in all, ya'll whine about way more things way more frequently than we do. Only difference is that it costs us a lot more.

+75

"Void Echo's Clone Died"

haha such a sweet moment

Honestly though, its no supprise you loose a ton of tanks, when your driving through the middle of the map with a ******* RAIL turret, lmao, how do you expect to kill av with a fecking a rail.....

i shouldnt really have to give you tips, but you should learn2missile

the number one complaint about the MD is that it requires no aim and people think is is the most game breaking thing, yet when it comes to lai dais and swarms they conveniently dont care.

hypocrites

LOL

One packed Lai Dai = one dead BPO LAV. And, guess what, you still have your Duvolle or Freedom mass driver in your hands to kill Johnny Random in 1 second because he just got out of the Battle Academy.

There will come a day when we get our beloved Sagaris and Surya back. And when this inevitability occurs, we will show NO mercy on any of you AV users. STB houses 6 of the best tankers in the game. A reign of blood is coming...