They QQ precisely because it takes a squad to kill them, if they had their way they would be invulnerable to everything except possibly other tanks and even then they would just avoid each other to gank infantry

You're crying because militia gear couldn't kill non militia tanks.

Jesus Christ.

Just as bad as the people crying that their AR can't kill tanks.

So just now I went into a pub skirmish match and the opposing team (no exaggeration) had 4 Tanks and 1 dropship. These weren't just militia tanks either these were top of the line your miltia AV won't make a dent tanks. So after being pushed to one outside objective and eventually non half the team switched to AV. We even coordinated to all fire on one tank in order to take it down. In the whole match we took down 2....... one being milita called in later. We had mostly AV but also one guy using Proto AV. Militia Forge guns and swarms didn't make a dent. The dropship went down, but it was foolish enough to stick around despite half the team firing swarms at it (no sympathy).

All in all is was a fun match, AV versus tanks running around trying to pick them off from the hills. Even with minimal success it was quite enjoyable. This team of tankers had a place and they worked well.

So what is my problem? If 6 militia AV can barely dent these standard tanks, then why all the QQ?
Is it the cost? Retreat was always an option for them but they never had to.
Is it the "OP" AV? You'd need 3 dedicated proto AV fits to take down one of those tanks.

So I'm starting to understand that many tankers have this mentality that anything other than a tank that can take them out is OP, regardless of how they use their tank.

They QQ precisely because it takes a squad to kill them, if they had their way they would be invulnerable to everything except possibly other tanks and even then they would just avoid each other to gank infantry

I have never heard anyone say an AR should kill a tank and Ive been on this board for several months now
You vehicle players always say the cutest things though

And what's wrong with known tankers having that kind of truce if they happen to go against each other? If that happened to me, with one or two more other prominent tankers on my side, and a couple of other prominent tankers on the other side, I'd start up a chat real quick to make sure we purposely avoid each other. Do you see a problem with that? I'd absolutely maneuver myself to take incoming friendly swarms if a red tank is about to get trashed, should we have an agreement between us that I don't get grenaded to the scrap heap.

What corp was it?

Actually you missed a thread back during the OP days of the tac AR, in it, it was calculated that a prototype TAR was doing more DPS than an advanced large blaster turret, and that furthermore with several people concentrating fire it would be possible to kill well fitted tanks relatively quickly. Despite the ludicrousness of this people were still defending the TAR.

Also complaining about militia AV being useless? Of course it's useless, you need some incentive to spec out of it don't you? And it's blatantly clear that the vehicle/AV balance needs some major work, things are kinda bad right now.

We had a proto AV guy, he actually lost a lot of ISK trying to help us out. I could understand 2 mitita AV guys not being able to take out a tank moving in and out of cover, but we had at least 6 people running AV, and we were all shooting at one tank, and it barely did anything.

I love running with tanks, I want them to be tough, but even 3 Miltia Assaults can take down 1 Proto Assault. The tanks weren't even trying to avoid our fire.

I have never heard anyone say an AR should kill a tank and Ive been on this board for several months now
You vehicle players always say the cutest things though

Ugh thats ********, did they all just happen to magically forget that all vehicles greatly resist small arms damage and that turrets by pass that resistance?
Like I said, **** like that is why its hard to take vehicle players seriously, they come up with wild accusations backed by faulty math and expect us to not call them on their BS

The problem is you not being a contributing member to the team if you do that
The way I see it you are much dead weight as redline snipers and MCC AFKers

Although take that with a grain of salt since I AFK half the time as well

LOL How is that dead weight? If 4 tankers on either side have an agreement not to fire on each other, and I'm protecting them from my team's AV, mostly for laughs to teach infantry a lesson, how is that dead weight? I'd also be killing red infantry, as well as plowing into blue LAVs.

It's a damn pub match, it's not helping FW or PC. It means nothing.

Ugh thats ********, did they all just happen to magically forget that all vehicles greatly resist small arms damage and that turrets by pass that resistance?
Like I said, **** like that is why its hard to take vehicle players seriously, they come up with wild accusations backed by faulty math and expect us to not call them on their BS

How were you shooting? Were you all firing in one volley? Or were you keeping up a constant barrage? Was the tanker running hardeners or reppers? Or both? There's more than a few things to be taken into account, if your not doing enough damage quickly enough he'll just keep repping that damage away.

Oh no, that math did take reduced efficiency into account, if you got enough people you could kill a tank with TAR's. and are you really one to call vehicles users bullshitters? As far as I've been playing this game (since the start of the year) it's the infantry who's consistently come up with the most ridiculous QQ topics and call for nerfs, and they've always flooded the forum with it.

You should change your username to "I am AIDS" for all the help you do

Sounds like you we playing against stb

Not as mad as you when there's AV on the field, QQ more and tell us why you should be invincible in your toy

There was one av on the field vs four tanks. Why do you think that it would go well? Put points into av and enjoy being OP

So just now I went into a pub skirmish match and the opposing team (no exaggeration) had 4 Tanks and 1 dropship. These weren't just militia tanks either these were top of the line your miltia AV won't make a dent tanks. So after being pushed to one outside objective, and eventually none, half the team switched to AV. We even coordinated to all fire on one tank in order to take it down. In the whole match we took down 2....... one being milita called in later. We had mostly AV but also one guy using Proto AV. Militia Forge guns and swarms didn't make a dent. The dropship went down, but it was foolish enough to stick around despite half the team firing swarms at it (no sympathy).

All in all is was a fun match, AV versus tanks running around trying to pick them off from the hills. Even with minimal success it was quite enjoyable. This team of tankers had a place and they worked well.

So what is my problem? If 6 militia AV can barely dent these standard tanks, then why all the QQ?
Is it the cost? Retreat was always an option for them but they never had to.
Is it the "OP" AV? You'd need 3 dedicated proto AV fits to take down one of those tanks.

So I'm starting to understand that many tankers have this mentality that anything other than a tank that can take them out is OP, regardless of how they use their tank.

Not as mad as you when theres AV on the field, QQ more and tell us why you should be invincible in your toy

I never sympathized with them. The QQ'rs just want to be able to solo wreck the enemy team. Any decent tank crew has very little to worry about from AV in most cases.

Aside from the fact that the have a very long rang with little/no fall off, and that PROTO AV is very easy to get? Did I mention that it is very hard, sometimes impossible to find decent AV players because of invisa-swams, and no smoke trail from FG's? yea, be quiet scrub.

My whole argument is that I don't want to be solo'd. Is that so much to ask for?

Oh no, that math did take reduced efficiency into account, if you got enough people you could kill a tank with TAR's. and are you really one to call vehicles users bullshitters? As far as I've been playing this game (since the start of the year) it's the infantry who's consistently come up with the most ridiculous QQ topics and call for nerfs, and they've always flooded the forum with it.

And you wont be solo'd unless you suck, how is that a difficult concept for tankers to understand?
Guy gets close enough to spam you with enough nades to die thats your fault
Get killed my swarms with their tendency to blow up on terrain and **** poor travel time, thats your fault
Forges you could maybe make the argument for but hey you are the only ones who have to deal with forge gunners sitting on rooftops since they shoot everyone and you have the luxury of not being killed in a single shot

So HTFU

I haven't heard the word scrub since 1995. Get with it.

And you wont be solo'd unless you suck, how is that a difficult concept for tankers to understand?
Guy gets close enough to spam you with enough nades to die thats your fault
Get killed my swarms with their tendency to blow up on terrain and **** poor travel time, thats your fault
Forges you could maybe make the argument for but hey you are the only ones who have to deal with forge gunners sitting on rooftops since they shoot everyone and you have the luxury of not being killed in a single shot

So HTFU

your team musta sucked @ss cuz i can pretty much solo a gunnlogi with a STD swarm launcher and Packed av Nades, i have no clue where the fk you geys got your info.... trying being sneeky and use AV nades their the most OP weapon in the game, use them to your hearts content!! :O

Lol

Trying to get a better shot that's not in the redline means I suck. If it's a protostomp, I stay in the redline, or in the MCC if I get killed.

"Enough grenades"

3 Packed Lai Dai puts out about 6400 damage against armor. By the time I get up to speed, well... I'm not up to speed, because I'm dead after the 5th grenade. Haven't you realized yet how easy it is to solo a tank? How stupidly pathetically easy it is?

Then heres why vehicles are like they are now:
There used to be these tanks called Sagaris and Surya and when you had two of them on the field and you had ten, TEN!! PROTO! AV!! you ended up with ten DEAD! INFANTRY AV.
It was the days of any tanker going 20 and 0 every game!!

It was the days of well fit tanks going 50 and 0 EVERY GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was the days of to kill a Sagaris or a Surya it was only if the phone distracted the tankers since proto AV by infantry was a joke.

Then came the days of dropships going 60 and 0 and well fit dropships going 100 and 0
Thats not a typo it really was 100 and 0 with an invincible flying gunship.

Thats why vehicles are the way they are today.

I have those grenades and against a STUPID tanker yeah its five to seven grenades and its a dead tank.
When its a SMART tanker its one or two grenades and then its these results:
Madrugar....Tech Ohm Eaven Died, Madrugar and Tech DIED, Madrugar and Tech DIED, Madrugar and sigh....Tech DIED.

So just now I went into a pub skirmish match and the opposing team (no exaggeration) had 4 Tanks and 1 dropship. These weren't just militia tanks either these were top of the line your miltia AV won't make a dent tanks. So after being pushed to one outside objective, and eventually none, half the team switched to AV. We even coordinated to all fire on one tank in order to take it down. In the whole match we took down 2....... one being milita called in later. We had mostly AV but also one guy using Proto AV. Militia Forge guns and swarms didn't make a dent. The dropship went down, but it was foolish enough to stick around despite half the team firing swarms at it (no sympathy).

All in all is was a fun match, AV versus tanks running around trying to pick them off from the hills. Even with minimal success it was quite enjoyable. This team of tankers had a place and they worked well.

So what is my problem? If 6 militia AV can barely dent these standard tanks, then why all the QQ?
Is it the cost? Retreat was always an option for them but they never had to.
Is it the "OP" AV? You'd need 3 dedicated proto AV fits to take down one of those tanks.

So I'm starting to understand that many tankers have this mentality that anything other than a tank that can take them out is OP, regardless of how they use their tank.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT QQ, I HAD FUN!!!!

Those were the days when you couldn't solo tanks. You complained, so CCP nerfed tanks until you could. That's also when the vehicle-vehicle dynamic was perfect. If you didn't maintain situational awareness at all times among the squad, any tanks out would get popped instantly.

Those were also the days when a glass cannon Soma could two-shot everything.

stupid tanker people complain because a forgegunner/proto swarm with la di grenades can pretty much solo anything dumb tank in a matter of seconds

Geez, having been in Beta during these rather unpleasant days, despite tanking being a lot harder now they are far more realistic.

You do of course realize that real world tanks get 'solo'd' all the time anyway?

Tank/Dropship stomping wasn't good for the game, despite the 'l33t' freaks thinking it's pretty awesome. And i'm a sometimes tanker, who mostly sucks.

CCP is going to have to be very careful with the higher tier tanks or they risk getting back into that situation.

As a tanker, if i dumped 10 mil SP into tanks (ONLY tanks), then militia AV shouldn't put a dent in my tank. I'd never complain about getting taken out by enemy AV, because if and when I do get taken down, it'll be by an adversary who's skilled into AV. I feel the balance of tank versus AV is ok. If AV personnel put a significant amount of SP into AV, it's only right that they are effective against my tank. You won't see me QQ when i get taken down. I'll blame it on my tactics, or my fit before i scream buff the tanks! then again, that's just me. there are alot of QQ tankers out there, however.

The other issue is that tankers don't even have their proto tanks, yet proto AV is the only viable way to take down tanks now (unless they are just terribad, poorly fitted, or somehow end up in the worst possible spot with several low-end AV players raining hell down upon them).

When tankers get their proto tanks back, our proto AV will become advanced AV, and they will just shrug us off like little insects biting at their ankles.


if CCP doesn't buff the crap out of AV when proto tanks get released back in the wild, it's going to be a VERY rough couple of months until it eventually gets balanced out. It's already bad enough as it is now. Tanks are the iwin button of ambush, and while I don't play skirmish, I would imagine it is the same there.

they need to be sure not to over buff AV again like theyv been doing the entire time.


chromosome as I look back on it was the closest weve ever gotten for balance

You're crying because militia gear couldn't kill non militia tanks.

Jesus Christ.

Just as bad as the people crying that their AR can't kill tanks.

You're crying because militia gear couldn't kill non militia tanks.

Jesus Christ.

Just as bad as the people crying that their AR can't kill tanks.

You're crying because militia gear couldn't kill non militia tanks.

Jesus Christ.

Just as bad as the people crying that their AR can't kill tanks.

Well, the tanks most people are using are the std variants right?

As you know, militia weapons have std stats, just with a higher fitting cost (some aren't as good as std, but most are identical). So it's really std vs std.

Even so, a militia shotgun can still kill a proto suit with pretty good efficiency. So why should tanks be any different? And don't use ISK cost as an excuse, unless you admit you want tanks to be p2w.

Also proto AV barely stands a chance against the current std tanks, so yeah. The only useful advanced AV weapon is the forge, the adv swarms suck bad IMO. Yet they should be insta-owning std tanks, since the AV is of a higher tier... right?

Well, the tanks most people are using are the std variants right?

As you know, militia weapons have std stats, just with a higher fitting cost (some aren't as good as std, but most are identical). So it's really std vs std.

Even so, a militia shotgun can still kill a proto suit with pretty good efficiency. So why should tanks be any different? And don't use ISK cost as an excuse, unless you admit you want tanks to be p2w.

Also proto AV barely stands a chance against the current std tanks, so yeah. The only useful advanced AV weapon is the forge, the adv swarms suck bad IMO. Yet they should be insta-owning std tanks, since the AV is of a higher tier... right?

You're crying because militia gear couldn't kill non militia tanks.

Jesus Christ.

Just as bad as the people crying that their AR can't kill tanks.

Even so, a militia shotgun can still kill a proto suit with pretty good efficiency. So why should tanks be any different? And don't use ISK cost as an excuse, unless you admit you want tanks to be p2w.

Also proto AV barely stands a chance against the current std tanks, so yeah. The only useful advanced AV weapon is the forge, the adv swarms suck bad IMO. Yet they should be insta-owning std tanks, since the AV is of a higher tier... right?

Video you see of real tanks being "solo'd" is probably a couple of warheads strapped together, detonating simultaneously. Since we don't have those in Dust, well.... yeah.

Militia has std damage, higher fitting cost, and less ammo. less ammo=more time reloading=SIGNIFICANTLY reduced DPS.

regular swarm 4 shots.
militia swarm 2 shots.

both launch 4 missiles that deal 330 damage per missile and take one second to lock on and fire(travel removed as missiles would be reaching target at 1 second intervals) so that is a standing dps of 1320 per second

regular swarm can do 1320 dps for 4 seconds. In this time period, the militia will do 660 and have spent 2 seconds reloading.

they are in no way equal for their intended purpose. the proper way to take down a tank is high, sustained damage over time. the militia is at best, a minor distraction to a skilled into, well fit, properly driven tank.

My 7.5 million SP into my vehicles should invalidate your 0 into AV. Period. End of story. I have spent a mostly proto suit's SP into my standard vehicles(and only one type of tanking, shields) it should **** all over your nothing.

there is a massive gap between a proto-skilled std fit and a militia fit(50% hp, 15% extra damage, 15% faster reload, etc.). The only thing proto about tanks right now, besides turrets is the skill tree.

Scary part? I'm actually on the low end of vehicular warfare and skilling into it. and still have another 2.9 million to put into my enforcer tank for a 6 percent bonus to missiles, the redheaded stepchildren of turrets. and another 2 to max out my shielding tree, then comes finishing out hybrid turrets, thankfully, I'm only 720K from that. after that, I can start to branch out to other vehicles.

So, I only need to hit about 13-14 million to put out my core skills, turrets, finish off one tank, have my turrets ready(even though only 1-2 are worth a damn) then I can start all over again with armor tanks, go into murdertaxis, or take up the aerial self-screw.(Da Vinci joke. since dropships are something I'm happy to see on field. they're basically free, floating ISK to me and my rail turret.)

and keep in mind that I also maintain a ground suit for when there is ONE proto forger on the field. so I could also start skilling into that as well. then only a paltry 8 million and I'm good to go.

good thing it only takes someone with 2 million SP(proto forge on a militia heavy) to remove me(I'm either dead or running) from the field unless there are 4 of me, and coordinated to boot, or for once the blues actually kill the AV guys.

hell, let's highball that and say he's using a proto standard suit for the extra damage bonuses which he also skilled into. 4-5 million SP to kick me off the field.


and dust is pay to win. period. You want the best gear, conducive to winning the fight? Pay for it. Since tank players have to pay out the nose(a well fit STD tank is over a million) they should be significantly harder to kill.

FGM 148 Javelin
Available since the 90s and allows a single soldier to bust a tank by way of a SINGLE tandem warhead which just means it has multiple stages of detonation to defeat reactive armor on a tank
Also happens to be a lock on fire and forget type weapon like our swarm launcher but even better since it has a top attack flight profile, that means it shoots up into the air then flies and lands on top of the tank avoiding any accident detonations on the terrain unlike the swarm launchers we have now

Now lets imagine you fired 6 of those at once and you get close to what a proto swarm launcher is, multiple warheads detonation at the same time on a single target

Explain to me why it should not do significant damage to your tank without crying about cost or using a hyperbolic argument like "Durr its a future tank and therefore stronger" keep in mind that weapons technology is generally ahead of defensive technology

Need to add in something that you vehicle players always forget when talking about swarm launchers
The after firing cooldown, it prevents you from reloading, re locking a target, switching weapons, or sprinting for 2.5-3 seconds and theres is absolutely nothing that can be done to prevent it or shorten the delay

now keep in mind that 2/3s of the time your swarms are invisible to us, and we generally can't trust our hit indicators because they blatantly lie about where we're getting hit from.

So just now I went into a pub skirmish match and the opposing team (no exaggeration) had 4 Tanks and 1 dropship. These weren't just militia tanks either these were top of the line your miltia AV won't make a dent tanks. So after being pushed to one outside objective, and eventually none, half the team switched to AV. We even coordinated to all fire on one tank in order to take it down. In the whole match we took down 2....... one being milita called in later. We had mostly AV but also one guy using Proto AV. Militia Forge guns and swarms didn't make a dent. The dropship went down, but it was foolish enough to stick around despite half the team firing swarms at it (no sympathy).

All in all is was a fun match, AV versus tanks running around trying to pick them off from the hills. Even with minimal success it was quite enjoyable. This team of tankers had a place and they worked well.

So what is my problem? If 6 militia AV can barely dent these standard tanks, then why all the QQ?
Is it the cost? Retreat was always an option for them but they never had to.
Is it the "OP" AV? You'd need 3 dedicated proto AV fits to take down one of those tanks.

So I'm starting to understand that many tankers have this mentality that anything other than a tank that can take them out is OP, regardless of how they use their tank.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT QQ, I HAD FUN!!!!

Keep in mind my shield tank is specifically built to defeat explosive weaponry. as in, those missiles only sting a little bit. DURR its the future and shield tech was made to combat explosives.

Invisible Swarms + Incorrect Hit Indicator Direction = Escaping in the wrong direction. If I shoot you in the Face w/ a BB Gun & your Body registers a Hit to your A*SHOLE, you will run forward to eat more Lead. Idiot posting Stupidity is Irrelevant, GTFO

Ninja the Javelin also offers direct fire avoiding the trophy systems anti air abilities
Herp derp learn what you are talking about, informations only a google search away

I have never seen a tank run in the wrong direction from fire or a person for that matter
But you are right, you are an idiot posting stupidity and are irrelevant

Bad render distance is a known problem for everyone but really you guys are blaming hit indicators now?
Whats next? My tank was blown up because my chair wasnt comfortable enough?

If you get shot, you turn and shoot the guy, or get to cover using the hit indicator as to define where is "safe" from the enemy's fire. If I get shot, I have to spend 3 seconds turning then I see that there is nothing over on my right because the guy was on my left, or I go for cover, only to learn that I'm going right toward whatever was shooting me later.

I then turn for another 5 seconds and by then, if the guy isn't mentally borked he'll be long gone, along with somewhere between 1000 of my shielding(swarms), or me getting popped(forges, other tanks) because the systems I use to judge where is prudent to take cover are malfunctioning.

and really, how often do other players stop rendering when you look directly at them? this happens all to often with tank to tank warfare at railgun distances. get out of cockpit view, you can see him. get into it so you can actually aim properly, boom, they're invisible, and your dot won't turn red. 50/50 on it happening to him at the same time.

the hit indicator problem seems to go hand in hand with the rendering issue, if I can't render them or their munitions, then for some reason my hit indicators start going random. on me. as in I've gotten hit from the front by inviso-swarms(third person view, explosions off front armor) and my indicator said they came from left,right, and behind me. I know that at least one of those was a lie as behind me was the redline, and all explosions were on the front armor.

This discussion was already had on these very Forums. Result??? Trophy System & w/e the Russian Variant was are capable of stopping Direct Fire as per ADVANCEMENTS in TECHNOLOGY. Learn2Forum, Learn2Research, The More You Know

"FUTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" - Squidward

Prove there wont be advancements to counteract the trophy system since you want to toss around the future

It is not my Job nor Perogative to prove ANYTHING about Current & Future Gen V -> AV Relations. It was my intention to shut down your Incorrect & Irrelevant Statement with FACTS. Mission Accomplished. The Intention was to get your COMPLETELY Out-of-Place Argument on IRL Comparisons as far away from here as possible. You are an Incorrigible Ignoramus, thus Mission Incomplete. IRL BS has no place in Discussions about Balance in a Video Game. You are a MAJOR Contributing Factor in the De-Evolution of DUST 514 & should feel bad about it. But.....what the heck, I'll take my OP Trophy Tank since you so graciously want IRL "Balance". Screw that.....I'll just Spec into Stealth Nuke & call it a day

Ugh thats ********, did they all just happen to magically forget that all vehicles greatly resist small arms damage and that turrets by pass that resistance?
Like I said, **** like that is why its hard to take vehicle players seriously, they come up with wild accusations backed by faulty math and expect us to not call them on their BS

They QQ precisely because it takes a squad to kill them, if they had their way they would be invulnerable to everything except possibly other tanks and even then they would just avoid each other to gank infantry

TBH I look at games like Battlefield and **** and tanks in that go down so easily. Why do tanks in this game complain, they cannot be OHKOed can they?

Blah blah blah

Use railgun. Current tests can deliver up to 33 MJ of impact force from over the horizon, to within 5 meters of target.

Of note. a single megajoule is "roughly equivalent to a 1-ton car traveling at 100 mph." so yeah, it's either a 33 ton car at 100 miles per hour, or a single ton car moving at 3300 miles per hour. or maybe both, which would just be mind boggling to consider the physics of it. Or, how anything can still exist after being hit by it.

So what is my problem? If 6 militia AV can barely dent these standard tanks, then why all the QQ?
Is it the cost? Retreat was always an option for them but they never had to.
Is it the "OP" AV? You'd need 3 dedicated proto AV fits to take down one of those tanks.

So I'm starting to understand that many tankers have this mentality that anything other than a tank that can take them out is OP, regardless of how they use their tank.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT QQ, I HAD FUN!!!!

You should change your username to "I am AIDS" for all the help you do

OP crying about how milita AV isnt strong enough to take a fully fit non milita tank down

Priceless

Next OP will be crying about how his AR isnt strong enough to OHK a tank

If only i had more game against milita AV and not proto AV

So just now I went into a pub skirmish match and the opposing team (no exaggeration) had 4 Tanks and 1 dropship. These weren't just militia tanks either these were top of the line your miltia AV won't make a dent tanks. So after being pushed to one outside objective, and eventually none, half the team switched to AV. We even coordinated to all fire on one tank in order to take it down. In the whole match we took down 2....... one being milita called in later. We had mostly AV but also one guy using Proto AV. Militia Forge guns and swarms didn't make a dent. The dropship went down, but it was foolish enough to stick around despite half the team firing swarms at it (no sympathy).

All in all is was a fun match, AV versus tanks running around trying to pick them off from the hills. Even with minimal success it was quite enjoyable. This team of tankers had a place and they worked well.

So what is my problem? If 6 militia AV can barely dent these standard tanks, then why all the QQ?
Is it the cost? Retreat was always an option for them but they never had to.
Is it the "OP" AV? You'd need 3 dedicated proto AV fits to take down one of those tanks.

So I'm starting to understand that many tankers have this mentality that anything other than a tank that can take them out is OP, regardless of how they use their tank.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT QQ, I HAD FUN!!!!

give your troll a 3/10, militia av should not take a dent into a fully specked out vehicle, it would be like a small team of the starter ship in eve take on a titan, it would not work

We don't have one tank portable yet.

And what's wrong with known tankers having that kind of truce if they happen to go against each other? If that happened to me, with one or two more other prominent tankers on my side, and a couple of other prominent tankers on the other side, I'd start up a chat real quick to make sure we purposely avoid each other. Do you see a problem with that? I'd absolutely maneuver myself to take incoming friendly swarms if a red tank is about to get trashed, should we have an agreement between us that I don't get grenaded to the scrap heap.

if only the infantry could come to peace the same to take out POS tankers working against the team they are on in favor of getting easy kills.

So just now I went into a pub skirmish match and the opposing team (no exaggeration) had 4 Tanks and 1 dropship. These weren't just militia tanks either these were top of the line your miltia AV won't make a dent tanks. So after being pushed to one outside objective, and eventually none, half the team switched to AV. We even coordinated to all fire on one tank in order to take it down. In the whole match we took down 2....... one being milita called in later. We had mostly AV but also one guy using Proto AV. Militia Forge guns and swarms didn't make a dent. The dropship went down, but it was foolish enough to stick around despite half the team firing swarms at it (no sympathy).

All in all is was a fun match, AV versus tanks running around trying to pick them off from the hills. Even with minimal success it was quite enjoyable. This team of tankers had a place and they worked well.

So what is my problem? If 6 militia AV can barely dent these standard tanks, then why all the QQ?
Is it the cost? Retreat was always an option for them but they never had to.
Is it the "OP" AV? You'd need 3 dedicated proto AV fits to take down one of those tanks.

So I'm starting to understand that many tankers have this mentality that anything other than a tank that can take them out is OP, regardless of how they use their tank.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT QQ, I HAD FUN!!!!

This sounds oddly like a PC vs Stb yesterday....

Anyway, generally it takes 2 proto AV, 6 MLT AV, or one beefy tank to kill me and it's the same with most other highly skilled tankers. I'm fine with this BC they're meta 1 tanks, but we need proto tanks to match the proto av in PC battles; I really couldn't care less about pubs Bc it is ccp'a fault for putting noons with mlt av against teams for 14mil so tankers rolling together.

As an avid AV user, and someone with a good friend who is a tanker, the biggest complaint tankers seem to have involve Proto Swarms and Proto Forges on rooftops. While this isn't the forum post for this, would removing rooftops as safe zones be a possible solution to the AV vs. Vehicle debate? Allow vehicles to escape, while not messing with the status quo too much (as Proto Vehicles will require current damage of AV to stay roughly the same)

Just a thought.

The other issue is that tankers don't even have their proto tanks, yet proto AV is the only viable way to take down tanks now (unless they are just terribad, poorly fitted, or somehow end up in the worst possible spot with several low-end AV players raining hell down upon them).

When tankers get their proto tanks back, our proto AV will become advanced AV, and they will just shrug us off like little insects biting at their ankles.


if CCP doesn't buff the crap out of AV when proto tanks get released back in the wild, it's going to be a VERY rough couple of months until it eventually gets balanced out. It's already bad enough as it is now. Tanks are the iwin button of ambush, and while I don't play skirmish, I would imagine it is the same there.

He is 'crying' because half a team using AV gear, albeit militia, could take out only one real tank during a whole game. A head can go in the sand only that deep, you know.

Well, the tanks most people are using are the std variants right?

As you know, militia weapons have std stats, just with a higher fitting cost (some aren't as good as std, but most are identical). So it's really std vs std.

Even so, a militia shotgun can still kill a proto suit with pretty good efficiency. So why should tanks be any different? And don't use ISK cost as an excuse, unless you admit you want tanks to be p2w.

Also proto AV barely stands a chance against the current std tanks, so yeah. The only useful advanced AV weapon is the forge, the adv swarms suck bad IMO. Yet they should be insta-owning std tanks, since the AV is of a higher tier... right?

FGM 148 Javelin
Available since the 90s and allows a single soldier to bust a tank by way of a SINGLE tandem warhead which just means it has multiple stages of detonation to defeat reactive armor on a tank
Also happens to be a lock on fire and forget type weapon like our swarm launcher but even better since it has a top attack flight profile, that means it shoots up into the air then flies and lands on top of the tank avoiding any accident detonations on the terrain unlike the swarm launchers we have now

Now lets imagine you fired 6 of those at once and you get close to what a proto swarm launcher is, multiple warheads detonation at the same time on a single target

Explain to me why it should not do significant damage to your tank without crying about cost or using a hyperbolic argument like "Durr its a future tank and therefore stronger" keep in mind that weapons technology is generally ahead of defensive technology

Need to add in something that you vehicle players always forget when talking about swarm launchers
The after firing cooldown, it prevents you from reloading, re locking a target, switching weapons, or sprinting for 2.5-3 seconds and theres is absolutely nothing that can be done to prevent it or shorten the delay

Bad render distance is a known problem for everyone but really you guys are blaming hit indicators now?
Whats next? My tank was blown up because my chair wasnt comfortable enough?

i'm a proto swarm user as many murder taxi mercs know very well. i spend most matches killing lav's and sometimes their occupants but my main task is to force tanks back behind the redline to which i am very good at. if im lucky i get some militia tanks to kill but as for the others types, if you don't stop moving and don't get caught in the open you have nothing to worry about from me. swarms don't fly around corver and run out of steam at 400m. also if your vigilant you can hide your tank, jump out with a sniper rifle and take me out before i swarm you, well you can try anyway :)

Prove there wont be advancements to counteract the trophy system since you want to toss around the future

2 People fire Militia AV Swarms at you? You just got hit harder than a Proto Swarm,
Tank QQers make me sick.

Wait, it takes 2 proto AV to kill you and you think that you should be significantly tougher?
The hell?

Show me exactly where I said tanks should get killed by a single shot
The javelin example is to show you that you guys have it so much better than you really know

Just another example of tank drivers using hyperbolic arguments, come back when you have something that isnt you crying like a child
Or hell maybe you should just roll a new character and stay in the battle academy, no mean proto AV there to hurt your feelings

It's what you're implying. We're not all stupid.

LOL Impossible to prove. Nice strawman. You clearly lost, yet continue to argue with no ground to stand on.

You're crying because militia gear couldn't kill non militia tanks.

Jesus Christ.

Just as bad as the people crying that their AR can't kill tanks.

You're crying because militia gear couldn't kill non militia tanks.

Jesus Christ.

Just as bad as the people crying that their AR can't kill tanks.

You realize that's not some random scrub, right?

You dont even see the irony do you?

You realize that's not some random scrub, right?

One of the other major issues with vehicles is the hardeners, resistance, and booster modules. A LLAV could show as having 2800 shield HP, but after hitting them three times with an assault forge equipped with an enhanced damage mod, and their shields only drop ~20%, you know something is terribly wrong. Especially when the forge is best against shields.

And boosters are just pure BS, what is this crap? Would be acceptable, maybe, if it was a one time-use module. But no, you just wait 30 seconds and you can gain an additional 1645 HP whenever you feel like it.

IMO hardeners, resistance, and booster modules need to get the boot. Vehicles need to be like our suits, you get shield extension and armor extension... that is IT when it comes to boosting your health. The only other non-visible variable should be the shields vs armor in terms of explosive resistance and whatnot.

Vehicles are a cancer to this game in their current form, we might as well call the game Vehicle 514. And the sooner vehicle scrubs realize this and stop trying to make themselves 100% invincible by QQing to the devs about trivial problems, the better this game can get.

/me pets his Proto swarms

Wait, it takes 2 proto AV to kill you and you think that you should be significantly tougher?
The hell?

I know right screw that man

More of a "CoD makes wild strawman arguments all the time so its ironic when he says others do the same" Lorhak

Yeah, they think a full squad of Proto AV is needed to kill their one tank, because they spend 20m sp and 2m Isk on it, newsflash my 20m sp i put into my Infantry role is just as much points as their 20m sp and they can easely destroy 2m Isk in suits before they explode.

Every match i see one of the tanker crowds bunched up in a squad, deploying at least 4 of them, they A) Never die and B) **** anything that moves and C) Still cry about how underpowered their tanks are....

Tanks should be like ships in Eve, cost up to Billions in fittings and still die because your multi billion rock met 1 cheap-ass Paper on the field. If tanks are supposed to be rock and AV is the Paper, atm its very very wet crappy paper.

One of the other major issues with vehicles is the hardeners, resistance, and booster modules. A LLAV could show as having 2800 shield HP, but after hitting them three times with an assault forge equipped with an enhanced damage mod, and their shields only drop ~20%, you know something is terribly wrong. Especially when the forge is best against shields.

And boosters are just pure BS, what is this crap? Would be acceptable, maybe, if it was a one time-use module. But no, you just wait 30 seconds and you can gain an additional 1645 HP whenever you feel like it.

IMO hardeners, resistance, and booster modules need to get the boot. Vehicles need to be like our suits, you get shield extension and armor extension... that is IT when it comes to boosting your health. The only other non-visible variable should be the shields vs armor in terms of explosive resistance and whatnot.

Vehicles are a cancer to this game in their current form, we might as well call the game Vehicle 514. And the sooner vehicle scrubs realize this and stop trying to make themselves 100% invincible by QQing to the devs about trivial problems, the better this game can get.

You realise that taking an entire squad of proto AV to down a standard tank isn't reasonable, right?

:P

I don't know what he posts like, so I'll take that one.

He is 'crying' because half a team using AV gear, albeit militia, could take out only one real tank during a whole game. A head can go in the sand only that deep, you know.

I post analytical, but you'll listen to him. Figures assaults flock together.

So just now I went into a pub skirmish match and the opposing team (no exaggeration) had 4 Tanks and 1 dropship. These weren't just militia tanks either these were top of the line your miltia AV won't make a dent tanks. So after being pushed to one outside objective, and eventually none, half the team switched to AV. We even coordinated to all fire on one tank in order to take it down. In the whole match we took down 2....... one being milita called in later. We had mostly AV but also one guy using Proto AV. Militia Forge guns and swarms didn't make a dent. The dropship went down, but it was foolish enough to stick around despite half the team firing swarms at it (no sympathy).

All in all is was a fun match, AV versus tanks running around trying to pick them off from the hills. Even with minimal success it was quite enjoyable. This team of tankers had a place and they worked well.

So what is my problem? If 6 militia AV can barely dent these standard tanks, then why all the tanker QQ?
Is it the cost? Retreat was always an option for them but they never had to.
Is it the "OP" AV? You'd need 3 dedicated proto AV fits to take down one of those tanks.

So I'm starting to understand that many tankers have this mentality that anything other than a tank that can take them out is OP, regardless of how they use their tank.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT QQ, I HAD FUN!!!!

As a dedicated AV forgegunning, metal melting, vehicle vivisectionist, i would like to say tanks need to be brought up to par with the proto AV that is available now, it is simply far too easy to kill Ninjanomyx while he hides in the redline. CCP should give him a stronger tank, because after i solo his maddy in a pub match i get a flood of mails with his tears soaking the envelopes.......poor guy

go back to bf scrub

I'm not commenting on the quality of your posts as a rule my only knowledge of your posts as a rule is what he's said.

Whether or not you post straw men, I actually agree with you in this discussion.

But I don't care enough to weigh in to his discussion; sick of even reading the damn things.

My post was not agreement, but an acceptance that he may have had a point. Which is not something I know or not.

Despite his dramatic statements, Leuko does have one point I think we can all agree is probably the focus of much QQ with tanks.

You can work your ass off whittling a tank down to 1 HP, and then they pop that repper on and are at full health in seconds. That is quite frustrating and makes it feel like all that AV work you put into that tank was worthless.

I would like to see vehicles have a larger focus on EHP and resistance and less on self reps. Having it take lots of punishment but not bouncing back from it in seconds. This would also bring a larger focus to spider tanking, and making an invincible tank be more of a group effort so that it justifies needing multiple AV guys to tank down what is essentially a vehicle squad.

This would probably also have to come with some sort of change to the way vehicles are recalled so you can't abuse the mechanic by constantly calling in a fresh HAV after yours has taken some damage.

Something along the lines of doubling the EHP on a tank while halving its rep/s (just as an example).

Despite his dramatic statements, Leuko does have one point I think we can all agree is probably the focus of much QQ with tanks.

You can work your ass off whittling a tank down to 1 HP, and then they pop that repper on and are at full health in seconds. That is quite frustrating and makes it feel like all that AV work you put into that tank was worthless.

I would like to see vehicles have a larger focus on EHP and resistance and less on self reps. Having it take lots of punishment but not bouncing back from it in seconds. This would also bring a larger focus to spider tanking, and making an invincible tank be more of a group effort so that it justifies needing multiple AV guys to tank down what is essentially a vehicle squad.

This would probably also have to come with some sort of change to the way vehicles are recalled so you can't abuse the mechanic by constantly calling in a fresh HAV after yours has taken some damage.

Something along the lines of doubling the EHP on a tank while halving its rep/s (just as an example).

I can attest, from having personally run AV with Eurydice on several occasions, that me with only ADV AV nades and he with militia nades and a militia forge have killed, without issue, 99% of the tanks we've targeted, and not to belabor the point but we have killed a LOT of tanks in this fashion.

That, I believe, is his reasoning for pointing out that a team of AV doing so poorly is more a sign of lacking in coordination rather than an inherent failing of AV or a sign of overpowered vehicles.

Sure.....b/c spending 1 Minute & 30 Seconds out of Combat after a 20 Second Engagement (Or 3-5 Seconds if hit by 1 PRO AVer) is sooooo much "Fun"..... That is based on Current Reps on x2 HP (Assuming Hardeners were Active when taking Damage). So now 1/2 of that.....hmmmmm..... 3 Minutes of pretty much AFKing & Praying for No OBs.... You do realize that Reps are the ONLY reason we even come out to "Play".....right??? Even w/ a Max Pilot Suit (Assuming they do the whole Cooldown Buff) that is basically bringing it back down to 2 Minutes of AFKing. So if I am correct here.....a Tank should be Still Soloed by 1 PRO AVer, & be out of the Fight for even LONGER??? & Slower Recall even though it's like Hacking an Objective w/ No Skills???

GG Bro.... If (I should say "When"...) this falls through just sign me up for that Respec so I may go "GROUND GAME GRRRR MURIKA!!!" w/ the rest of the CoDboitards.....AGAIN. Better yet, Delete Vehicles, we has Feet Bro

Heavy suits have the same problem. May want to look into how they handle it? Oh teamwork! Yeah!

Just cause you have a big bad tank doesn't mean you should be a solo death machine. Lets give LLAVs a reason to exist.

Heavy suits have the same problem. May want to look into how they handle it? Oh teamwork! Yeah!

Just cause you have a big bad tank doesn't mean you should be a solo death machine. Lets give LLAVs a reason to exist.

FGM 148 Javelin
Available since the 90s and allows a single soldier to bust a tank by way of a SINGLE tandem warhead which just means it has multiple stages of detonation to defeat reactive armor on a tank
Also happens to be a lock on fire and forget type weapon like our swarm launcher but even better since it has a top attack flight profile, that means it shoots up into the air then flies and lands on top of the tank avoiding any accident detonations on the terrain unlike the swarm launchers we have now

Now lets imagine you fired 6 of those at once and you get close to what a proto swarm launcher is, multiple warheads detonation at the same time on a single target

Explain to me why it should not do significant damage to your tank without crying about cost or using a hyperbolic argument like "Durr its a future tank and therefore stronger" keep in mind that weapons technology is generally ahead of defensive technology

sounds like you want this game to be more realistic, you are aware though people in real life who get shot once generally fall on the floor and are taken to hospital if there lucky.

Despite his dramatic statements, Leuko does have one point I think we can all agree is probably the focus of much QQ with tanks.

You can work your ass off whittling a tank down to 1 HP, and then they pop that repper on and are at full health in seconds. That is quite frustrating and makes it feel like all that AV work you put into that tank was worthless.

I would like to see vehicles have a larger focus on EHP and resistance and less on self reps. Having it take lots of punishment but not bouncing back from it in seconds. This would also bring a larger focus to spider tanking, and making an invincible tank be more of a group effort so that it justifies needing multiple AV guys to tank down what is essentially a vehicle squad.

This would probably also have to come with some sort of change to the way vehicles are recalled so you can't abuse the mechanic by constantly calling in a fresh HAV after yours has taken some damage.

Something along the lines of doubling the EHP on a tank while halving its rep/s (just as an example).

Pretty sure I said it earlier but thats just an example to show tankers how good they actually have it compared to the real world

So just now I went into a pub skirmish match and the opposing team (no exaggeration) had 4 Tanks and 1 dropship. These weren't just militia tanks either these were top of the line your miltia AV won't make a dent tanks. So after being pushed to one outside objective, and eventually none, half the team switched to AV. We even coordinated to all fire on one tank in order to take it down. In the whole match we took down 2....... one being milita called in later. We had mostly AV but also one guy using Proto AV. Militia Forge guns and swarms didn't make a dent. The dropship went down, but it was foolish enough to stick around despite half the team firing swarms at it (no sympathy).

All in all is was a fun match, AV versus tanks running around trying to pick them off from the hills. Even with minimal success it was quite enjoyable. This team of tankers had a place and they worked well.

So what is my problem? If 6 militia AV can barely dent these standard tanks, then why all the tanker QQ?
Is it the cost? Retreat was always an option for them but they never had to.
Is it the "OP" AV? You'd need 3 dedicated proto AV fits to take down one of those tanks.

So I'm starting to understand that many tankers have this mentality that anything other than a tank that can take them out is OP, regardless of how they use their tank.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT QQ, I HAD FUN!!!!

I have never heard anyone say an AR should kill a tank and Ive been on this board for several months now
You vehicle players always say the cutest things though

I would like to point out that on at least one occasion I was part of a two squad group that concentrated AR fire on a militia tank and was able to take it down. Nothing but AR's were used. That being said it was a Sica and they are made of a slurry of tissue paper and pre-teen tears. Oh the fun we had.

You're crying because militia gear couldn't kill non militia tanks.

Jesus Christ.

Just as bad as the people crying that their AR can't kill tanks.