It's tactical- just the majority of the players (such as yourself, obviously) are too stupid to take advantage of that. Zerging into a deathtrap gets you nowhere.

Explain how it is, dont go durr hurr you iz bad

This is not the thinking mans shooter some fanboys like to tout it as but a throwback to the arena shooters of old only less polished

Easy.
Pretend I have 8 mill SP
You have 1 mill SP
The tactic is I stand in the open absorbing bullets while you tactically reload before I kill you.

Apparently it's not even a punctuation-using man's shooter.

While it's true that Dust isn't what's defined as a tactical shooter, that doesn't preclude the use of tactics. Checking corners is one tactic, bunny-hopping is another. Different circumstances require different tactics.

It should also be noted that Dust has the potential to be a much more strategic shooter, if PC/EVE is ever fully realized or integrated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_shooter

"" A tactical shooter is a subgenre of first-person shooters, where realistic ("real-world") settings are simulated by the gaming engine (to the best of its ability) and players use authentic military tactics to accomplish goals in the game, thus making tactics and caution more important than quick reflexes in other action games. Tactical shooters involving military combat are sometimes known as "soldier sims"."""

........

authentic military tactics... check
accomplishing goals in the game... check.
tactics and caution more important than twitch... check

unless you haven't played in one of Dingo's squads

Last of us is a good example of tactical shooter.

-XOXO

Just because there's a strategy to the gameplay doesn't mean it's tactical.

It's objective based run and gun FPS. If I run into 10 players all shooting at me and can get out alive with a couple of kills then it's not a tactical shooter.

SOCOM, Ghost recon, Rainbow Six - Tactical shooters.

Killzone, MAG, Halo - Run and gun

There's no need to stop or take cover and no prone - not a tactical shooter.

I use cover all the time. I love it when people don't because they're so easy to kill.

This is an arcade shooter. Twitch based gameplay, run and gun kill the enemy before they kill you.

ARMA, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, Americas Army, Operation Flashpoint.... Those are tactical shooters.

You use cover or you get behind stuff while you're running around - there's a difference.

Really. Your calling a this a twitch shooter lol. This game is what you call a tracking shooter since you have to actually keep your target on someone for more then 2 seconds.

Yes, it is a twitch shooter, and more than 2 seconds....What kind of gun are you using that it takes you so long to kill someone?

Ok fine it take more then 5 bullets to kill someone. Happy now?

Funny I head shot people with my GLU and drop them in 3-4 bullets. 2 with my scrambler pistol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_shooter

"" A tactical shooter is a subgenre of first-person shooters, where realistic ("real-world") settings are simulated by the gaming engine (to the best of its ability) and players use authentic military tactics to accomplish goals in the game, thus making tactics and caution more important than quick reflexes in other action games. Tactical shooters involving military combat are sometimes known as "soldier sims"."""

........

authentic military tactics... check
accomplishing goals in the game... check.
tactics and caution more important than twitch... check

unless you haven't played in one of Dingo's squads

(heh but yeh, i get what you're saying)

Yes, it is a twitch shooter, and more than 2 seconds....What kind of gun are you using that it takes you so long to kill someone?

Being in the military, I promise you: Throwing grenades the very second you see hostile forces 5 feet away from you and running over people as your main method of attack are not military tactics.

My guess? not an AR.

Aw, come on! Don't you remember those squat thrust reload drills? And who could forget the running around in tiny circles gun range.

Feeling bored and want to annoy some fanboys so lets talk about this

Now I see the whole "I like this cause its tactical and you need to think" idea tossed around fairly often but it just does not match up with the game
Bunny hopping, spraying fire wildly, massive health bars, and the whole LAV thing are all anathema to a true tactical experience
This is not the thinking mans shooter some fanboys like to tout it as but a throwback to the arena shooters of old only less polished

Now lets take the Rainbow Six games pre Vegas
Slow paced, needing to look, listen, check every corner, stick to cover for even in heavy armor a few shots is more than enough to put you down, something that truly was tactical since one mistake would cost you dearly


Now to you guys in the playerbase that do support this as a tactical game I want to know a reason why that isnt related to fittings since thats a fairly weak argument, and to everyone else what were some truly tactical games you enjoyed and wish CCP would take some examples from on how to improve this game

Only time when you need cover is when your shields are down , I seen plenty of people play this game like COD( with prototype gear usually) and get lots of kills. Doesn't acquire much thought ; get a good fit , pray that your team doesn't suck, cap points and kill any that tries to recap it , or just kill people.

Game plays like any other shooter the only things that makes it different from the rest is that the shooting sucks and you have to buy stuff so you don't run out.

Twitch Shooter you have a half second to live most of the time it takes about 3 seconds to down most folks in this game.

Yes and 2 of those 3 seconds are trying to keep your aim on target with the sloppy controls.

Dust is not strategic it's just ,slow and cumbersome with a bit of frustration thrown in just to drag it down further.

I agree, Dust really isn't all that tactical.

You get that huge EHP to work with, you can make a mistake, engage in a fight that you shouldn't of, get outnumbered, whatever, in most cases you can turn around and run away and you have plenty of time to react thanks to the TTK (time to kill) in this game; especially now that weapons have been nerfed so many times. Sure you can use tactics, but that goes for ANY shooter game.

I don't see a whole lot tactical about the gameplay that I usually see in Dust, nor do I see it really necessary in average matches. In LOU, unless playing against complete scrubs I still feel it's necessary to crouch walk a lot, check corners, proceed carefully, and pick my fights wisely. I hardly had that feeling in Dust, only in very few pubs that were high competition and corp battles against top corps.

I was always able to run and gun and play stupidly and consistently do well in Dust... That is rarely the case in a tactical shooter unless the enemy is literally brand new to shooters.

Also, how often to you ADS in Dust?

In a tactical shooter, you are not going to do very well unless you ADS.

Also, how often to you ADS in Dust?

In a tactical shooter, you are not going to do very well unless you ADS.

I ADSed a lot in Dust actually, but I know it wasn't really necessary a lot of the time. It annoyed me greatly because I knew that hipfiring was usually more effective than ADS unless at a decent range. There would be moments where I'd go and hipfire and be surprised at how good it was, and it would annoy me at the same time. I found the same true for MAG as well at times.

I can understand hipfire being better than ADS when they're within shotgun range, but further and it's just stupid IMHO.

Hope all is well with you James.

Oh yeah all is good, aside from work soaking up too much time and wanting to game more than I do xD. Hope teamplayers is working out well for you, good to see you getting in some good matches. GJ vs IMPs.

I guess it is tactical if you play tactically, if your roll with your bros and cover each other etc... those that don't do something similar will break against you easily hence such one sided matches. However when like minded people face your group those matches are the exciting strategic close matches.

edit speak moar better engrish

If that was the case, call of duty is a tactical shooter."I can go from cover to cover with ma bros dude, we are tactical dude!"

Socom is a tactical shooter

Feeling bored and want to annoy some fanboys so lets talk about this

Now I see the whole "I like this cause its tactical and you need to think" idea tossed around fairly often but it just does not match up with the game
Bunny hopping, spraying fire wildly, massive health bars, and the whole LAV thing are all anathema to a true tactical experience
This is not the thinking mans shooter some fanboys like to tout it as but a throwback to the arena shooters of old only less polished

Now lets take the Rainbow Six games pre Vegas
Slow paced, needing to look, listen, check every corner, stick to cover for even in heavy armor a few shots is more than enough to put you down, something that truly was tactical since one mistake would cost you dearly


Now to you guys in the playerbase that do support this as a tactical game I want to know a reason why that isnt related to fittings since thats a fairly weak argument, and to everyone else what were some truly tactical games you enjoyed and wish CCP would take some examples from on how to improve this game

there are less tactics in Dust then in CoD or halo which are the prominent twitch based FPSes out there.

Lost all credibility.

Says the guy in the corp bunny hopping in a mob until they spent themselves on Sver in PC....

Maybe IMPs think that is a tactic?

Who knows.....

If that was the case, call of duty is a tactical shooter."I can go from cover to cover with ma bros dude, we are tactical dude!"

Socom is a tactical shooter

That's not even a come back - if you're not bunny hoping at one point in a tough gun fight as an assault you just plain suck. Shows how good you are really.

You already lost all credibility in several threads - why do you even post? You're just a fool around here.

So you agree with me that Dust, where you have to bunny hop to win, is not tactical, and it is designed that way. Or what you think bunny hopping is not a twitch mechanic?

I think you are just pissed because i have dissed on your favorite corp. Get over it. It is not as if IMPS have not been asking for it for at least the two months i have been here.

The piles of smack coming from then literally take up 30% of the friggin forums. And it isn't even good trash talk...just endless banal drivel.

Just because there's a strategy to the gameplay doesn't mean it's tactical.

It's objective based run and gun FPS. If I run into 10 players all shooting at me and can get out alive with a couple of kills then it's not a tactical shooter.

SOCOM, Ghost recon, Rainbow Six - Tactical shooters.

Killzone, MAG, Halo - Run and gun

There's no need to stop or take cover and no prone - not a tactical shooter.


Also... Authentic Military Tactics in Dust? Are you... Yeah, I guess you're right. I remeber in nam when we used to run into a room full of n00bs add fire our grenade launching pistols at their feet while hopping up and down in between reloads.

The game is not advertised as a tactical shooter. It even states when you start a new character that the combat is fast and frantic.

Fast and frantic have little place for tactical shooters.

And yes tactics are used and effective in the game. It's just hard to pull off when you're up against someone with better gear than you.

This is more arcadey than Rainbow Six type stuff, but this is still a tactical shooter.

Faster paced doesn't ruin the tactical use of squads.

I'm sorry you don't realize this.

I would agree squads are one tactical element with dust. If fact i think they implemented it pretty well.

Still that does not change the game play which compared to even BF3 (which also has squads) is not very tactical.

Faster pace does ruin tactical use of squads. There is almost no point in flanking, moving in cover, or setting up crossfire as the fight is over before it has begun. Better to just send in a mob (squad) of people into one point and overwhelm them with people standing up and shooting down the same hallway.

Feeling bored and want to annoy some fanboys so lets talk about this


Now lets take the Rainbow Six games pre Vegas
Slow paced, needing to look, listen, check every corner, stick to cover for even in heavy armor a few shots is more than enough to put you down, something that truly was tactical since one mistake would cost you dearly

Feeling bored and want to annoy some fanboys so lets talk about this

Now I see the whole "I like this cause its tactical and you need to think" idea tossed around fairly often but it just does not match up with the game
Bunny hopping, spraying fire wildly, massive health bars, and the whole LAV thing are all anathema to a true tactical experience
This is not the thinking mans shooter some fanboys like to tout it as but a throwback to the arena shooters of old only less polished

Now lets take the Rainbow Six games pre Vegas
Slow paced, needing to look, listen, check every corner, stick to cover for even in heavy armor a few shots is more than enough to put you down, something that truly was tactical since one mistake would cost you dearly


Now to you guys in the playerbase that do support this as a tactical game I want to know a reason why that isnt related to fittings since thats a fairly weak argument, and to everyone else what were some truly tactical games you enjoyed and wish CCP would take some examples from on how to improve this game

Fine - you asked for it.

Tactics:
An action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end.
The art of disposing armed forces in order of battle and of organizing operations, esp. during contact with an enemy.

Your weak assertion of your point doesn't even touch upon the true meaning of tactics - yet we need to give you a full analysis on our end on how you're just blowing smoke? How about share with us instead how your point makes any valid sense? What other game on it's competitive level requires as much coordination to be successful as dust? Twitch shooters are a joke for this very reason.

Las Vegas is another good example of not being tactical - it's hiding behind corners and waiting for someone else to be stupid. There no aim or goal other then killing your enemy and moving on.

Tactics doesn't = gun game. And your first few lines support this - but then you bring up Vegas like it solidifies your point - it doesn't. Dust 514 requires you to have an open comms with your teams and flexibility to adapt to several situations. If you played in PC you would know this. It's for this very reason tactics flourish here. Giving call outs and orders happens every 30 seconds as plans change.

CCP can go F themselves for ruining this game - but please try to keep some sense before "Attempting" to **** off a group of people who hasn't yet been able to think for themselves - cause some of us happen to know and understand the concept of tactics and strategy and think you foolish atm.

Play RTS for a bit and uses these points at why dust isn't tactical to explain why WC3 is trash next to Rome Total War - you'd be a laughing stock.

Your reading comprehension lacks friend
"Tactics" in and of itself is a wide umbrella term but also avoids the point of is this game a "Tactical Shooter" which someone was kind enough to post the specific definition of earlier

Youll also see that when I mentioned the Rainbow Six series I made a specific point to say PRE VEGAS and not LAS VEGAS, world of difference there

Talk about weak assertions of ones point, why not proofread your own posts and their content or lack thereof or is your nerf rage and sperging making that overly difficult for you?

Everyone else not spazzing out and coming at this from a more neutral and gameplay focused stance and not those that just want to play semantics I appreciate your input

I like how you stubbornly ignore the points of others and harp on with the delusion that my stance hasnt been explained by myself or others in this thread, real classy but Ill humor you

Now we have already established that tactics is how you do something and we have established what generally constitutes a tactical shooter namely a slower paced more dangerous game where caution and area awareness are key
And the entire purpose of this thread was just to tell those in the playerbase that hold this as a thinking mans tactical shooter that they are wrong and its no different from other games in the genre that lambast as somehow beneath Dust for lacking its so called depth

Pretty simple stuff that I felt I got across in the OP but I guess it was beyond your ability to grasp so I spelled it out for you, I take it youll understand now


Now on a side note since you liked to bring up how my argument was smoke and mirrors how is it any different than you using hyperbolic statements in most of your posts or screaming "No U!" when you are called on your bullshit throwing a tantrum like a toddler?

"It's not tactical because other games do this too."

Lol?

Weak points are weak. The depth CCP spoke of are there RPG elements to begin with. Regardless - with map size and customization of suits and using variety in your teams - it is more tactical then most. You're blindly ignoring this.

Maybe I should push that point a bit harder in the other posts - but you'd think saying, "You require a lot more then running around to win." Would of been enough.

And just to remind you, Look at your thread topic and what it says. You've already denounced it yourself.

And to cause some more burns:
Definition: In Video Games, the term tactical generally applies to military, or shooter type games where the missions require some level of planning in order to succeed.

^ how does this not define dust?

There go those hyperbolic statements again, starting to sound like a broken record Sota

But since you want to throw around quotes here is one from Wikipedias Tactical Shooter page

.[14] In contrast to games that emphasize running and shooting, tactical shooters require more caution and patience (making use of cover and avoiding being caught in the open).[15]"

Now how close to Dust does that sound?
I

This part.

Also proof of why so many people are bad at this game. Use cover pubbies -.-

Learn to use cover in game or get squashed. If you ever watched an Imp training video is empahsizes on these points - and jumping can be argued to say no game has done it right - would you enjoy not being able to hop over a railing and need to walk around it? The jumping is simply something people do to advantage of crappy hit detection.

Your argument so far is pretty weak still. Though admittedly mines not much better since it's RTS biased.

Wait, we're not supposed to be bunny hopping in circles in the middle of the road?

Damn, I've been doin it all wrong.

So you base your argument on an entirely different genre with entirely different playstyles but then tell others in the thread that their opinions are null and void?
The irony of it all actually hurts since it made me laugh so hard

Being in the military, I promise you: Throwing grenades the very second you see hostile forces 5 feet away from you and running over people as your main method of attack are not military tactics.

Feeling bored and want to annoy some fanboys so lets talk about this

Now I see the whole "I like this cause its tactical and you need to think" idea tossed around fairly often but it just does not match up with the game
Bunny hopping, spraying fire wildly, massive health bars, and the whole LAV thing are all anathema to a true tactical experience
This is not the thinking mans shooter some fanboys like to tout it as but a throwback to the arena shooters of old only less polished

Now lets take the Rainbow Six games pre Vegas
Slow paced, needing to look, listen, check every corner, stick to cover for even in heavy armor a few shots is more than enough to put you down, something that truly was tactical since one mistake would cost you dearly


Now to you guys in the playerbase that do support this as a tactical game I want to know a reason why that isnt related to fittings since thats a fairly weak argument, and to everyone else what were some truly tactical games you enjoyed and wish CCP would take some examples from on how to improve this game

While it's true that Dust isn't what's defined as a tactical shooter, that doesn't preclude the use of tactics. Checking corners is one tactic, bunny-hopping is another. Different circumstances require different tactics.

It should also be noted that Dust has the potential to be a much more strategic shooter, if PC/EVE is ever fully realized or integrated.

Now I see the whole "I like this cause its tactical and you need to think" idea tossed around fairly often but it just does not match up with the game.
Bunny hopping, spraying fire wildly, massive health bars, and the whole LAV thing are all anathema to a true tactical experience
This is not the thinking mans shooter some fanboys like to tout it as but a throwback to the arena shooters of old only less polished

Now lets take the Rainbow Six games pre Vegas
Slow paced, needing to look, listen, check every corner, stick to cover for even in heavy armor a few shots is more than enough to put you down, something that truly was tactical since one mistake would cost you dearly

Now to you guys in the playerbase that do support this as a tactical game I want to know a reason why that isnt related to fittings since thats a fairly weak argument, and to everyone else what were some truly tactical games you enjoyed and wish CCP would take some examples from on how to improve this game

I guess it is tactical if you play tactically, if your roll with your bros and cover each other etc... those that don't do something similar will break against you easily hence such one sided matches. However when like minded people face your group those matches are the exciting strategic close matches.

edit speak moar better engrish

Feeling bored and want to annoy some fanboys so lets talk about this

Now I see the whole "I like this cause its tactical and you need to think" idea tossed around fairly often but it just does not match up with the game
Bunny hopping, spraying fire wildly, massive health bars, and the whole LAV thing are all anathema to a true tactical experience
This is not the thinking mans shooter some fanboys like to tout it as but a throwback to the arena shooters of old only less polished

Now lets take the Rainbow Six games pre Vegas
Slow paced, needing to look, listen, check every corner, stick to cover for even in heavy armor a few shots is more than enough to put you down, something that truly was tactical since one mistake would cost you dearly


Now to you guys in the playerbase that do support this as a tactical game I want to know a reason why that isnt related to fittings since thats a fairly weak argument, and to everyone else what were some truly tactical games you enjoyed and wish CCP would take some examples from on how to improve this game

I think we use different definitions for GÇ£TacticalGÇ¥.

When I think of Tactical I think of what is needed for my team to win the match, not how to keep myself alive. I suppose that self preservation is tactical too, but I always tend to look at the game from the perspective of a squad or field commander.

Tactical:
- How many objectives do we need to hold, and for how long, to win this?
- If we only hold 2 objectives to their 3, are we far enough ahead to win anyway?
- If they are this far ahead of us, how many objectives do we have to hold to get ahead of them before the timber runs out?
- Should we play recklessly in order to win by Objectives, or should we play conservatively to avoid losing on clones?
- If there is a full squad at this Objective, and more at that objective, then which Objective is likely to be weakest.
- Which set of objectives would be easier to defend?
- Is that Supply Depot an asset to us, or a risk to our tanks?
- Should we hit this Objective in force, or split up and try to take two Objectives at once.

It goes on and on, but hopefully you get the point.

Edit: Oops, after starting to read through the thread I realized that I wandered into a First Person Shooter thread. Words definitely have different meanings in here.

SoTa calls someone noob with the phrase, "You probably don't even know the difference between tactics and strategy." Then goes on to define "tactics" with examples of strategy..... Good times, good times.

I think we use different definitions for GÇ£TacticalGÇ¥.

When I think of Tactical I think of what is needed for my team to win the match, not how to keep myself alive. I suppose that self preservation is tactical too, but I always tend to look at the game from the perspective of a squad or field commander.

Tactical:
- How many objectives do we need to hold, and for how long, to win this?
- If we only hold 2 objectives to their 3, are we far enough ahead to win anyway?
- If they are this far ahead of us, how many objectives do we have to hold to get ahead of them before the timber runs out?
- Should we play recklessly in order to win by Objectives, or should we play conservatively to avoid losing on clones?
- If there is a full squad at this Objective, and more at that objective, then which Objective is likely to be weakest.
- Which set of objectives would be easier to defend?
- Is that Supply Depot an asset to us, or a risk to our tanks?
- Should we hit this Objective in force, or split up and try to take two Objectives at once.

It goes on and on, but hopefully you get the point.

Edit: Oops, after starting to read through the thread I realized that I wandered into a First Person Shooter thread. Words definitely have different meanings in here.

Dust is a Arcade shooter,

COD ,. yep Arcade shooter.

Arma 3 is a simulator. and many other good titles like World of tanks,..


If dust was a simulator the forums would be crying a 1000 times harder.

Back after doing stuff and checking the new responses
I see its still a mix of people with well thought out opinions and guys using the wide wide umbrella of tactics to justify their points and then claim I have only played this style or that style

Oh and guy that said bunny hopping is a cod thing that game actually discourages it, your aim gets ****** to hell and unless you dolphin dive it just increases your chances of getting shot, a lot of games have been moving away from bunny hopping for years

Bunny hoping is people taking advantage of poor hit detection in the first place - it's sorta pathetic. I can't wait for it to vanish and be replaced a mechanic to allow better use of terrain cover to give a more 'tactical' feel like you speak of.

The idea you seem to have trouble grasping is that Dust is not a tactical shooter but a throwback to arena run and gun shooters from days gone by and should be called as such not mislabeled as a tactical shooter