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Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
616
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Posted - 2013.06.27 23:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
Feeling bored and want to annoy some fanboys so lets talk about this
Now I see the whole "I like this cause its tactical and you need to think" idea tossed around fairly often but it just does not match up with the game Bunny hopping, spraying fire wildly, massive health bars, and the whole LAV thing are all anathema to a true tactical experience This is not the thinking mans shooter some fanboys like to tout it as but a throwback to the arena shooters of old only less polished
Now lets take the Rainbow Six games pre Vegas Slow paced, needing to look, listen, check every corner, stick to cover for even in heavy armor a few shots is more than enough to put you down, something that truly was tactical since one mistake would cost you dearly
Now to you guys in the playerbase that do support this as a tactical game I want to know a reason why that isnt related to fittings since thats a fairly weak argument, and to everyone else what were some truly tactical games you enjoyed and wish CCP would take some examples from on how to improve this game |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
617
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 00:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:It's tactical- just the majority of the players (such as yourself, obviously) are too stupid to take advantage of that. Zerging into a deathtrap gets you nowhere.
Explain how it is, dont go durr hurr you iz bad |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
617
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 00:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Terra Thesis wrote:Delta 749 wrote:This is not the thinking mans shooter some fanboys like to tout it as but a throwback to the arena shooters of old only less polished Apparently it's not even a punctuation-using man's shooter.
ee cummings style Now do you have something to contribute to the topic? |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
631
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 08:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
So Ive been reading the replies and those of you that say this game is tactical have put forth some fairly weak arguments so far They seem to boil down to "You just dont get it" "There are some tactical elements" or like Sota above this post using vague terms of what tactics are but not defining them or giving example of which of them are present in the game
Now the second type of response is actually fairly useful but to that I have to say tiny chunks dont make up a whole It would be like saying a beef stew is a steak since it has meat in it |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
633
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 10:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Feeling bored and want to annoy some fanboys so lets talk about this
Now I see the whole "I like this cause its tactical and you need to think" idea tossed around fairly often but it just does not match up with the game Bunny hopping, spraying fire wildly, massive health bars, and the whole LAV thing are all anathema to a true tactical experience This is not the thinking mans shooter some fanboys like to tout it as but a throwback to the arena shooters of old only less polished
Now lets take the Rainbow Six games pre Vegas Slow paced, needing to look, listen, check every corner, stick to cover for even in heavy armor a few shots is more than enough to put you down, something that truly was tactical since one mistake would cost you dearly
Now to you guys in the playerbase that do support this as a tactical game I want to know a reason why that isnt related to fittings since thats a fairly weak argument, and to everyone else what were some truly tactical games you enjoyed and wish CCP would take some examples from on how to improve this game Fine - you asked for it. Tactics: An action or strategy carefully planned to achieve a specific end. The art of disposing armed forces in order of battle and of organizing operations, esp. during contact with an enemy. Your weak assertion of your point doesn't even touch upon the true meaning of tactics - yet we need to give you a full analysis on our end on how you're just blowing smoke? How about share with us instead how your point makes any valid sense? What other game on it's competitive level requires as much coordination to be successful as dust? Twitch shooters are a joke for this very reason. Las Vegas is another good example of not being tactical - it's hiding behind corners and waiting for someone else to be stupid. There no aim or goal other then killing your enemy and moving on. Tactics doesn't = gun game. And your first few lines support this - but then you bring up Vegas like it solidifies your point - it doesn't. Dust 514 requires you to have an open comms with your teams and flexibility to adapt to several situations. If you played in PC you would know this. It's for this very reason tactics flourish here. Giving call outs and orders happens every 30 seconds as plans change. CCP can go F themselves for ruining this game - but please try to keep some sense before "Attempting" to **** off a group of people who hasn't yet been able to think for themselves - cause some of us happen to know and understand the concept of tactics and strategy and think you foolish atm. Play RTS for a bit and uses these points at why dust isn't tactical to explain why WC3 is trash next to Rome Total War - you'd be a laughing stock.
Your reading comprehension lacks friend "Tactics" in and of itself is a wide umbrella term but also avoids the point of is this game a "Tactical Shooter" which someone was kind enough to post the specific definition of earlier
Youll also see that when I mentioned the Rainbow Six series I made a specific point to say PRE VEGAS and not LAS VEGAS, world of difference there
Talk about weak assertions of ones point, why not proofread your own posts and their content or lack thereof or is your nerf rage and sperging making that overly difficult for you?
Everyone else not spazzing out and coming at this from a more neutral and gameplay focused stance and not those that just want to play semantics I appreciate your input |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
633
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 10:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
I like how you stubbornly ignore the points of others and harp on with the delusion that my stance hasnt been explained by myself or others in this thread, real classy but Ill humor you
Now we have already established that tactics is how you do something and we have established what generally constitutes a tactical shooter namely a slower paced more dangerous game where caution and area awareness are key And the entire purpose of this thread was just to tell those in the playerbase that hold this as a thinking mans tactical shooter that they are wrong and its no different from other games in the genre that lambast as somehow beneath Dust for lacking its so called depth
Pretty simple stuff that I felt I got across in the OP but I guess it was beyond your ability to grasp so I spelled it out for you, I take it youll understand now
Now on a side note since you liked to bring up how my argument was smoke and mirrors how is it any different than you using hyperbolic statements in most of your posts or screaming "No U!" when you are called on your bullshit throwing a tantrum like a toddler? |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
633
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 11:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Delta 749 wrote:I like how you stubbornly ignore the points of others and harp on with the delusion that my stance hasnt been explained by myself or others in this thread, real classy but Ill humor you
Now we have already established that tactics is how you do something and we have established what generally constitutes a tactical shooter namely a slower paced more dangerous game where caution and area awareness are key And the entire purpose of this thread was just to tell those in the playerbase that hold this as a thinking mans tactical shooter that they are wrong and its no different from other games in the genre that lambast as somehow beneath Dust for lacking its so called depth
Pretty simple stuff that I felt I got across in the OP but I guess it was beyond your ability to grasp so I spelled it out for you, I take it youll understand now
Now on a side note since you liked to bring up how my argument was smoke and mirrors how is it any different than you using hyperbolic statements in most of your posts or screaming "No U!" when you are called on your bullshit throwing a tantrum like a toddler? "It's not tactical because other games do this too." Lol? Weak points are weak. The depth CCP spoke of are there RPG elements to begin with. Regardless - with map size and customization of suits and using variety in your teams - it is more tactical then most. You're blindly ignoring this. Maybe I should push that point a bit harder in the other posts - but you'd think saying, "You require a lot more then running around to win." Would of been enough. And just to remind you, Look at your thread topic and what it says. You've already denounced it yourself. And to cause some more burns: Definition: In Video Games, the term tactical generally applies to military, or shooter type games where the missions require some level of planning in order to succeed. ^ how does this not define dust?
There go those hyperbolic statements again, starting to sound like a broken record Sota
But since you want to throw around quotes here is one from Wikipedias Tactical Shooter page
"Overall, the style of play is typically slower than other action games.[12] Jumping techniques are sometimes de-emphasized in order to promote realism,[13] with some games going so far as to omit a jump button.[14] In contrast to games that emphasize running and shooting, tactical shooters require more caution and patience (making use of cover and avoiding being caught in the open).[15]"
Now how close to Dust does that sound? Ive said it before but you are using the umbrella term of tactics as a defense which at its core is a flawed argument , everything from Super Mario to putting my socks on in the morning could technically be caught under the umbrella of tactics The idea you seem to have trouble grasping is that Dust is not a tactical shooter but a throwback to arena run and gun shooters from days gone by and should be called as such not mislabeled as a tactical shooter |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
634
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 11:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Delta 749 wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Delta 749 wrote:I like how you stubbornly ignore the points of others and harp on with the delusion that my stance hasnt been explained by myself or others in this thread, real classy but Ill humor you
Now we have already established that tactics is how you do something and we have established what generally constitutes a tactical shooter namely a slower paced more dangerous game where caution and area awareness are key And the entire purpose of this thread was just to tell those in the playerbase that hold this as a thinking mans tactical shooter that they are wrong and its no different from other games in the genre that lambast as somehow beneath Dust for lacking its so called depth
Pretty simple stuff that I felt I got across in the OP but I guess it was beyond your ability to grasp so I spelled it out for you, I take it youll understand now
Now on a side note since you liked to bring up how my argument was smoke and mirrors how is it any different than you using hyperbolic statements in most of your posts or screaming "No U!" when you are called on your bullshit throwing a tantrum like a toddler? "It's not tactical because other games do this too." Lol? Weak points are weak. The depth CCP spoke of are there RPG elements to begin with. Regardless - with map size and customization of suits and using variety in your teams - it is more tactical then most. You're blindly ignoring this. Maybe I should push that point a bit harder in the other posts - but you'd think saying, "You require a lot more then running around to win." Would of been enough. And just to remind you, Look at your thread topic and what it says. You've already denounced it yourself. And to cause some more burns: Definition: In Video Games, the term tactical generally applies to military, or shooter type games where the missions require some level of planning in order to succeed. ^ how does this not define dust? There go those hyperbolic statements again, starting to sound like a broken record Sota But since you want to throw around quotes here is one from Wikipedias Tactical Shooter page .[14] In contrast to games that emphasize running and shooting, tactical shooters require more caution and patience (making use of cover and avoiding being caught in the open).[15]" Now how close to Dust does that sound? I This part. Also proof of why so many people are bad at this game. Use cover pubbies -.- Learn to use cover in game or get squashed. If you ever watched an Imp training video is empahsizes on these points - and jumping can be argued to say no game has done it right - would you enjoy not being able to hop over a railing and need to walk around it? The jumping is simply something people do to advantage of crappy hit detection. Your argument so far is pretty weak still. Though admittedly mines not much better since it's RTS biased.
So you base your argument on an entirely different genre with entirely different playstyles but then tell others in the thread that their opinions are null and void? The irony of it all actually hurts since it made me laugh so hard |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
641
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Posted - 2013.06.28 22:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Back after doing stuff and checking the new responses I see its still a mix of people with well thought out opinions and guys using the wide wide umbrella of tactics to justify their points and then claim I have only played this style or that style
Oh and guy that said bunny hopping is a cod thing that game actually discourages it, your aim gets ****** to hell and unless you dolphin dive it just increases your chances of getting shot, a lot of games have been moving away from bunny hopping for years |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
642
|
Posted - 2013.06.28 22:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
SoTa PoP wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Back after doing stuff and checking the new responses I see its still a mix of people with well thought out opinions and guys using the wide wide umbrella of tactics to justify their points and then claim I have only played this style or that style
Oh and guy that said bunny hopping is a cod thing that game actually discourages it, your aim gets ****** to hell and unless you dolphin dive it just increases your chances of getting shot, a lot of games have been moving away from bunny hopping for years Bunny hoping is people taking advantage of poor hit detection in the first place - it's sorta pathetic. I can't wait for it to vanish and be replaced a mechanic to allow better use of terrain cover to give a more 'tactical' feel like you speak of.
Indeed, I just strafe to the left or right to dodge their spray and aim where they will land The only ones it doesnt work 100% on are speed stack scouts who are hauling ass away since they just keep bouncing |
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