DUST Search - (request) making meters meters

Harpyja wrote:

Ops Fox wrote:

Harpyja wrote:

I don't know if it's just terrible explosion dynamics (I've heard that's it's only a two-dimensional explosion for one) or if distance measurements are actually wrong.

My missile turrets at many times seem to be hitting close enough, but no damage is being applied. I also once took my own test to see distance measurements, so I started right next to my HAV. I backed up to 4m to see just how large my fragmented missile explosion radius is and I felt like I could almost touch my HAV if I stretched my arm out.

Really? that interesting. and if its true is a major problem, all these number from spalsh and speed make sense when they are thought about using meters but if a meter doesn't line up with our perspective of a meter in the game then that is a serious issue.

Yes, my perspective of distance in Dust is thrown out the window. Either the game itself has a faulty measurement system or just like in EVE, the game makes you lose all perspective of distance due to the scale of the ships (similarly, perhaps a NULL cannon is equal to the length of a bus while we perceive it to be no wider than the length of a car. And dropsuits are actually 2.5m tall personal mechs, but aren't considered to be real mechs in Dust Shocked

)

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Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 213	Posted - 2013.06.12 21:22:00 - [1] - Quote In dust 514 the discriptions for things like splash damage and running speed are counted in meters, for exsample let's say the running speed of your minmatar scout is 8 meters per second, this sounds pretty danm goodbon paper but in practice its a bit diffrent as meters are treated as feet in this game making what should be a rather large speed increase marginal at best. Explosives especily suffer from this as say a 3 meter splash radius, which on paper sounds amazing, is actually so tiny it's borderline useless. I'm not sure what the issue is here but a change is needed to make both speedy little scouts and explosives more useful. If you have experiance or just want to comment and want to post do so my fellow dusters! exsuse my crappy grammar/spelling
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 114	Posted - 2013.06.12 21:27:00 - [2] - Quote I don't know if it's just terrible explosion dynamics (I've heard that's it's only a two-dimensional explosion for one) or if distance measurements are actually wrong. My missile turrets at many times seem to be hitting close enough, but no damage is being applied. I also once took my own test to see distance measurements, so I started right next to my HAV. I backed up to 4m to see just how large my fragmented missile explosion radius is and I felt like I could almost touch my HAV if I stretched my arm out.
Ops Fox ZionTCD Unclaimed. 272	Posted - 2013.06.12 21:32:00 - [3] - Quote Harpyja wrote: I don't know if it's just terrible explosion dynamics (I've heard that's it's only a two-dimensional explosion for one) or if distance measurements are actually wrong. My missile turrets at many times seem to be hitting close enough, but no damage is being applied. I also once took my own test to see distance measurements, so I started right next to my HAV. I backed up to 4m to see just how large my fragmented missile explosion radius is and I felt like I could almost touch my HAV if I stretched my arm out. Really? that interesting. and if its true is a major problem, all these number from spalsh and speed make sense when they are thought about using meters but if a meter doesn't line up with our perspective of a meter in the game then that is a serious issue.
Severance Pay Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 349	Posted - 2013.06.12 21:41:00 - [4] - Quote It has come to my attention that the scale of measurement has come into question. A meter is 3.3 feet long, conveniently each floortilemon the warbarge is 3x3 feet or a square yard. Now the splash radius of grenades is 6m, so imagine the explosion reaching about 7 tiles in radius. Never happen right? There are 2 possibilities to explain this. 1. "m" is not for meters but for some other unit of measure that is unique to the EVE universe. 2. Clones are actually 3 x the size of a regular human, so their feet are a meter in length.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 114	Posted - 2013.06.12 21:54:00 - [5] - Quote Ops Fox wrote: Harpyja wrote: I don't know if it's just terrible explosion dynamics (I've heard that's it's only a two-dimensional explosion for one) or if distance measurements are actually wrong. My missile turrets at many times seem to be hitting close enough, but no damage is being applied. I also once took my own test to see distance measurements, so I started right next to my HAV. I backed up to 4m to see just how large my fragmented missile explosion radius is and I felt like I could almost touch my HAV if I stretched my arm out. Really? that interesting. and if its true is a major problem, all these number from spalsh and speed make sense when they are thought about using meters but if a meter doesn't line up with our perspective of a meter in the game then that is a serious issue. Yes, my perspective of distance in Dust is thrown out the window. Either the game itself has a faulty measurement system or just like in EVE, the game makes you lose all perspective of distance due to the scale of the ships (similarly, perhaps a NULL cannon is equal to the length of a bus while we perceive it to be no wider than the length of a car. And dropsuits are actually 2.5m tall personal mechs, but aren't considered to be real mechs in Dust )
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 218	Posted - 2013.06.12 23:55:00 - [6] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Ops Fox wrote: Harpyja wrote: I don't know if it's just terrible explosion dynamics (I've heard that's it's only a two-dimensional explosion for one) or if distance measurements are actually wrong. My missile turrets at many times seem to be hitting close enough, but no damage is being applied. I also once took my own test to see distance measurements, so I started right next to my HAV. I backed up to 4m to see just how large my fragmented missile explosion radius is and I felt like I could almost touch my HAV if I stretched my arm out. Really? that interesting. and if its true is a major problem, all these number from spalsh and speed make sense when they are thought about using meters but if a meter doesn't line up with our perspective of a meter in the game then that is a serious issue. Yes, my perspective of distance in Dust is thrown out the window. Either the game itself has a faulty measurement system or just like in EVE, the game makes you lose all perspective of distance due to the scale of the ships (similarly, perhaps a NULL cannon is equal to the length of a bus while we perceive it to be no wider than the length of a car. And dropsuits are actually 2.5m tall personal mechs, but aren't considered to be real mechs in Dust ) do you think that's it?
Doyle Reese OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 116	Posted - 2013.06.13 00:19:00 - [7] - Quote Missiles are also hit-scan to my knowledge (or maybe it was just laggy, idk), because one time I shot a missile launcher from a tank and I got the kill a good 3 seconds before the missile hit the target
Ops Fox ZionTCD Unclaimed. 277	Posted - 2013.06.13 00:19:00 - [8] - Quote Actually when you think about it distance are really messed up in Dust. so this would make sense on a lot of thing.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 5103	Posted - 2013.06.13 01:23:00 - [9] - Quote ... is there anyway you can prove this? scientifically I mean?
Ops Fox ZionTCD Unclaimed. 277	Posted - 2013.06.13 01:27:00 - [10] - Quote that's kind of the thing we know what a meter is in real life or around about. and its fairly easy to look around the real world and guess to mate a pretty close approx of how many meters something is. in Dust using that same approximation things seam really skewed from our mercs perspective.

Meeko Fent Mercenary incorperated 52	Posted - 2013.06.13 01:34:00 - [11] - Quote I Didn't Know that, If so, that Explains the feeling of Short Range the Weapons have. Make 'em Real Meters CCP!
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 115	Posted - 2013.06.13 02:22:00 - [12] - Quote Ops Fox wrote: that's kind of the thing we know what a meter is in real life or around about. and its fairly easy to look around the real world and guess to mate a pretty close approx of how many meters something is. in Dust using that same approximation things seam really skewed from our mercs perspective. its all subjective but something deffinetly seems wrong with it when you start looking at the distance for object and see how far. away they are. On the above tank thing though the 4 meters was prob. how far away he was from the Center of the tank not the edge i suggest doing the same thing with a person and seeing if 4 meters lines up a little better. Yea I made sure of that when I tested it. It said 0m as I was touching it and backed away perpendicularly until I was 4m away. This was some time ago as well but I believe I made a half circle around my tank, just to be sure that it doesn't calculate the distance from the center of my tank. As for Iron Wolf, I'll see if I can't get some corpmates to help me out on a more scientific approach to this issue tomorrow.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 636	Posted - 2013.06.13 02:50:00 - [13] - Quote This is an interesting thread. I've become so used to it over the builds but I remember my first thoughts when I first started were about how screwed up distance seemed. Mercs are supposed to be 7ft tall. A meter should still feel like a meter.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 218	Posted - 2013.06.13 05:55:00 - [14] - Quote bump before i sleep ^-^
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 42	Posted - 2013.06.13 06:23:00 - [15] - Quote I've always just read the "meters" as "feet" after a while, because that's pretty much how them seem to be right now.
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 325	Posted - 2013.06.13 09:13:00 - [16] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ... is there anyway you can prove this? scientifically I mean? Try the mass driver in game. People can avoid the damage just by jumping, that wouldn't be possible if the radius was 3 METRES. It really feels like it's 3 feet.
Ops Fox ZionTCD Unclaimed. 279	Posted - 2013.06.13 15:38:00 - [17] - Quote CCP can we get a response on this, we are a little curious now.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 221	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:48:00 - [18] - Quote Ops Fox wrote: CCP can we get a response on this, we are a little curious now. ^this would like to see da blue
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 446	Posted - 2013.06.13 17:52:00 - [19] - Quote Agreed, it really feels like the distances are feets with wrong (right!) name. Should be fixable.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 221	Posted - 2013.06.13 23:01:00 - [20] - Quote bump

Ser Chard Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 16	Posted - 2013.06.13 23:45:00 - [21] - Quote Oh my god... This makes so much sense. But... This would affect weapon ranges too. We know the max range on weapons. Does that max range hold up to what it should be per perspective/scale? All I know is that a footsoldier two tanks-lengths away should not be able to jump over my large missile barrages without getting at least a little toasted.
Anita Hardone Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 109	Posted - 2013.06.13 23:50:00 - [22] - Quote THIS JUST IN! CCP doesnt even know the correct scale of things in their own game.
Ser Chard Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 16	Posted - 2013.06.14 00:30:00 - [23] - Quote Was just testing this out... Stood 3m from an ally and the distance between us was less that the height of a drop suit. Rounding could factor into this but still... I guess drop suits are more than 9ft tall.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 222	Posted - 2013.06.14 14:52:00 - [24] - Quote bump
Severance Pay Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 368	Posted - 2013.06.14 16:32:00 - [25] - Quote Ser Chard wrote: Was just testing this out... Stood 3m from an ally and the distance between us was less that the height of a drop suit. Rounding could factor into this but still... I guess drop suits are more than 9ft tall. You are assuming "m" is for meter and not for a different unit of measure that may be unique to EVE universe.
Moonracer2000 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 524	Posted - 2013.06.14 16:34:00 - [26] - Quote I would also like a CCP response. Here is a simple test anyone can do in game: 1. Use the range gauge over objectives and stand 10 meters away. 2. Find out the max effective range of your weapon (AR is 30 meters I believe). 3. Cry. If anyone has screen capture capabilities perhaps they could take a picture of two players X meters from each other and use math to calculate their height? Or something?
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 223	Posted - 2013.06.14 17:36:00 - [27] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Ser Chard wrote: Was just testing this out... Stood 3m from an ally and the distance between us was less that the height of a drop suit. Rounding could factor into this but still... I guess drop suits are more than 9ft tall. You are assuming "m" is for meter and not for a different unit of measure that may be unique to EVE universe. I play eve they use meters
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 112	Posted - 2013.06.14 19:12:00 - [28] - Quote I'm going to do some BS because I really don't know what I'm talking about, I just seem to remember something that I read in a book once. When they make the maps, everything is designed in chunks of meters, but the movement of a camera and the model that it is following is not done in meters/second but rather frames/second so it has smooth movement rather than jumpy. So that means we could be seeing a few things.... 1. We are imagining things and are actually going 8m/s 2. The speed factor is not set high enough to mimic 8m/s 3. The lag is throwing all movement calculations out the window because the frame rate is not constant or its lower than expected. Although, I have no clue what I'm talking about, but it is an interesting thought.
J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 134	Posted - 2013.06.14 19:51:00 - [29] - Quote DUST's low FOV could be a factor and skew things quite a lot; but a Dev response would definitely be appreciated.
S Park Finner BetaMax. CRONOS. 145	Posted - 2013.06.14 20:06:00 - [30] - Quote J-Lewis wrote: DUST's low FOV could be a factor and skew things quite a lot; but a Dev response would definitely be appreciated. This is an excellent point. Games have adjusted the size of characters for years -- often making them disproportionate to the rest of the environment -- in order to balance the look and feel of the world.



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