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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
386
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Posted - 2013.07.06 21:42:00 -
[91] - Quote
Clyffton Donovan wrote:I wonder if they meant to consider it to be a splash diameter instead of a splash radius.
I've no idea, if that's the case there's no way to gell and I've no dev response in this thread just yet |
Tidaen
Nova Corps Marines
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
76
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Posted - 2013.07.07 02:09:00 -
[92] - Quote
I too would like too see this addressed. It has been an annoyance for quite some time. |
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
424
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Posted - 2013.07.08 21:24:00 -
[93] - Quote
Forgot to bump this so......bump |
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
473
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Posted - 2013.07.09 20:52:00 -
[94] - Quote
Bump |
Sinboto Simmons
Sver true blood
Public Disorder.
634
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Posted - 2013.07.14 06:13:00 -
[95] - Quote
Bump |
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
722
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Posted - 2013.07.15 02:40:00 -
[96] - Quote
bump |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2013.07.15 05:15:00 -
[97] - Quote
Poonmunch wrote:This is actually a fairly good observation. The speed of 8m/s translates to 28 km/hr (17mph). The fastest human sprinter (Usain Bolt) runs 100m in 9.58s. This is 10.4m/s, which translates to 37 km/hr (23mph). We are pretty fast thanks to our drop suits.
The explosive damage radius seems a bit small to me, but I'm not any kind of expert. Are there any people of the military persuasion who could help us with the numbers on this?
Munch
The ranges given for dust are laughable to military technology today. The M16 has a max effective range on a point target (read: human) of 550 meters. That's about 5 football fields and change. For qualification the farthest range shot is 500m mark at a Bmodified target (read, human sillouette) and I can personally hit it 9 times out of 10 in the black (not necessarily right where I'm aiming, but close enough that my round would be hitting the man somewhere on his body.) The max effective range of the AK-47, which in gun circles isn't known for its accuracy at range, can hit a man reliably at 300m. 30m is about the max effective range of the M9 pistol.
The reason for this accuracy is that modern troops are trained to take single, well aimed shots in lieu of spray-and-pray tactics. Part of the Rifleman's Creed reads "My rifle and I know that what counts in this war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit..."
Now I understand that the technology is different in EVE, and we can't expect such performance from the weapons we have (hitting a red at 500m with an AR, can you hear the screaming?) However, the ranges of all weapons should be buffed WITHIN REASON. Part of the advantage of firearms over other weapons of ancient war (sword, spear, bow and arrow) is simply one of range. An arrow causes far more damage than most modern rounds (excluding large calibers such as .50, which is technically an anti-materiel rifle designed to shoot equipment, not people) however, I can hit you with my rifle at far greater ranges than the bow, which is a far bigger advantage. I could go on (Spent 4 years in the military, and I'm a huge geek when it comes to military history) but suffice to say that the weapons in DUST are severely lacking, and some effort to buffing range should be made, especially once the larger maps come out.
I've gone severely off-topic, so back to the point. The AR should have maybe 80-200m effective range (lower than modern rifles, to keep it balanced, and lore wise blaster technology isn't that accurate) and then modify the other weapons to be balanced to that. For missiles, that will be a lot tougher to make realistic without turning it into the ridiculous OP it was pre-nerf. The 60mm mortar used by the Marine Corps has a kill radius of 35m, which even with the current faulty dust measurements is insane, so maybe if CCP fixes the range counter then an accurate 2.5m radius would be balanced, with a reduced ROF to avoid spam attacks (give reds time to find cover and avoid your assault.)
Sorry for the wall of text. :/ |
Moonracer2000
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
574
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Posted - 2013.07.15 22:37:00 -
[98] - Quote
The ranges are not realistic but they are (somewhat) balanced from a gameplay perspective. Reducing the weapon range scale allows smaller maps to feel larger. The combination of reduced range and smaller maps means foot travel is reduced and more interesting.
We know how much it sucks to have to run from spawn to the nearest objective 300m away in some matches. Imagine if everything was 1500m away or more! I'm guessing this sort of modification of scale is what lead to the abnormalities we see in game. Perhaps CCP has some good explanations for them?
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
724
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Posted - 2013.07.16 00:55:00 -
[99] - Quote
Moonracer2000 wrote:The ranges are not realistic but they are (somewhat) balanced from a gameplay perspective. Reducing the weapon range scale allows smaller maps to feel larger. The combination of reduced range and smaller maps means foot travel is reduced and more interesting.
We know how much it sucks to have to run from spawn to the nearest objective 300m away in some matches. Imagine if everything was 1500m away or more! I'm guessing this sort of modification of scale is what lead to the abnormalities we see in game. Perhaps CCP has some good explanations for them?
If they've explanations I've yet to come cross them.
Hopefully if this gets fixed we'll become faster as well to compensate |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2013.07.16 07:39:00 -
[100] - Quote
Or we would get vehicles to transport us over those distances. Dropships are already in place, but APCs are another option. In any case, having more realistic weapon ranges would make combat feel a lot more realistic (with an AR, even if I could throw a rock and hit the guy, my damage is reduced?) and would eliminate a lot of the annoyance of running over open fields dodging snipers and forge gunners just to get in weapons range. Especially if they do open up the maps like they say they are, and objectives do end up 1500m away, 30m AR isn't going to cut it. ESPECIALLY especially if there is a bunch of wide open fields like there is in the red zones now. Then most of the combat will be snipers picking off the people trying to get in range. |
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Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood
762
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Posted - 2013.07.18 20:21:00 -
[101] - Quote
Bump |
J Lav
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
153
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Posted - 2013.07.18 20:51:00 -
[102] - Quote
This sounds like an issue of scale, not measurement. To briefly explain the difference, scale is determined on a person's estimate in proportion to a recognizable object. This is not subject to numerical values, but their perception.
For example, if everyone was only 3 feet tall, they would consider the clones in the game to be approximately 3 feet tall. Since people are the reference point as the only recognizable thing in people's lives for real, therein everything becomes proportional to the size of the clones.
In that case, when I read 3 m radius, I assume that the blast should reach about 20' diameter, or roughly 3 times the height of a person. To see if this is accurate, I will have to do a screen shot and have a couple of friends stand that far apart to see what happens. The numerical value given by the game's stats would be secondary to that perspective.
Not long enough, want to read more - Scale is actually more closely related to the proportions of a body, than the overall height. For example, a 6' person, who's head is 3 feet tall will look short. The proportions in Dust are a curious thing since if anything, I think the clones proportions make them look taller than life, with tiny heads, little hands and huge torsos. Try standing next to the couch in your quarters and you'll notice it comes up to your calf muscles...
Blue answer: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1074375#post1074375 |
Moonracer2000
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
594
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Posted - 2013.07.25 14:34:00 -
[103] - Quote
I agree that it has more to do with scale. I thought the earlier posts in this (and similar) threads expressed that. Part of the problem is that this argument tends to get sidetracked with weapon range discussions.
But yeah, now I am just sad that CCP responded to this discussion since they seem to have missed the whole point. I guess it is good to know that meters are in fact meters in the game. Thought that doesn't resolve the fact that they don't feel like meters. We just need to come to terms that clones are 9 meters tall or something and this is why distances feel too short.
If that is the case and as intended then fine. All I'm asking is that CCP let players know "hey, you are a giant". |
J Lav
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
153
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Posted - 2013.07.25 20:13:00 -
[104] - Quote
Moonracer2000 wrote:I agree that it has more to do with scale. I thought the earlier posts in this (and similar) threads expressed that. Part of the problem is that this argument tends to get sidetracked with weapon range discussions.
But yeah, now I am just sad that CCP responded to this discussion since they seem to have missed the whole point. I guess it is good to know that meters are in fact meters in the game. Thought that doesn't resolve the fact that they don't feel like meters. We just need to come to terms that clones are 9 meters tall or something and this is why distances feel too short.
If that is the case and as intended then fine. All I'm asking is that CCP let players know "hey, you are a giant".
Well, I think previous points confused measurement for scale. FOV actually distorts scale, not measurement, so I understand their response. As a photographer, I use different lenses to change the field of view of my subject, to alter the perceived proportions of their body, in a flattering way. In this case, the field of view of the game will change the perception of how close you are to something in the game. So the clones aren't giants, but the FOV makes them appear larger than they really are. I'm curious how this affects gunplay. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1287
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Posted - 2013.07.25 22:11:00 -
[105] - Quote
Moonracer2000 wrote:I agree that it has more to do with scale. I thought the earlier posts in this (and similar) threads expressed that. Part of the problem is that this argument tends to get sidetracked with weapon range discussions.
But yeah, now I am just sad that CCP responded to this discussion since they seem to have missed the whole point. I guess it is good to know that meters are in fact meters in the game. Thought that doesn't resolve the fact that they don't feel like meters. We just need to come to terms that
I'd justclones are 9 meters tall or something and this is why distances feel too short.
If that is the case and as intended then fine. All I'm asking is that CCP let players know "hey, you are a giant".
I'd just like to add to this that I have seen scouts jump over MD hits and not take damage. Unless players more than 3m tall, this should be impossible.
Sorry CCP, it isn't just FOV. |
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