i think its time we took a new approch to the LR. im thinking that it would be cool to have some high rate of fire LR like the ones that are already in place. but also some that are semi auto that you fire and have a cool down ( like rockets) where you must wait to refire but have the shot be vary damaging and produce high heat biuld up. say 3 to 4 shots in a row before over heating with higher meta levels ( adv, pro) having less heat per shot. and the same if not more range as a tac ar. what do you think?

...Either the scrambler rifle or the laser rifle should be unlimited ammo

The thing about ammo is that it forces dependancies between other players, encourages tactical movement between physical locations on the battlefield. I don't think unlimited ammo would be all that beneficial (as you point out, not many people are clamoring for this) and yet it dumbs down the game a fair bit when people are less dependent on their teammates. I'd also add that I could see ammunition types being added at some time in the future just like in Eve, and this would work against that goal as well by anchoring expectations about ammo and laser weapons.

I do think you're absolutely right that it feels like it's lost it's place.

The range fix should help the LR find its place again.

Right now it only works in its optimal range, but hopefully remnant can add this effective range fix and youll still do fairly decent damage at even very longe ranges (think 80-100m hopefully/eventually).

You wont be able to evaporate people in a second but still soften them up quite a bit.

I think this is the niche that the TAR and the LR are supposed to fill... softening up targets and/or just keeping them scared and away altogether.

However, since ranges are pretty much garbage until the fix is implemented and then tweaked after feedback, the TAR will remain hella OP and the LR essentially useless at long range.

Also I agree, the iron sight is actually pretty bad... the scrambler scope would do wonders on the LR.

If the TAR and the LR have the same range, why would anyone choose it over the TAR? The LR has many major drawbacks (as mentioned above), and if it's no better than the TAR in other ways, it's always going to the ugly stepsister. I'd like to see the LR hit out to 120-130ish with max skills--still many times shorter than a sniper rifle, but great at the mid range and farther than a TAR. The fact that you announce your location for several seconds every time you fire, prevents you from stealing the sniper's thunder, and the weakness at short range limits the weapon's advantage to mid range.

Haven't used the scrambler rifle yet

^
yep were on the same page. the sight needs to be fixed. does the ADS sensitivity seem to low to you. not sure if it's just the KB/M thats just screwed up with it?

would strongly suggest CCP to change the sight first and nothing else.

I agree with... changing one thing at a time. i don't want a return to chromosome lasers cos they were OP, but lets avoid a see-saw of nerfing and buffing and get it right slowly.

Since the LR is really a Amarr beam laser it should have much much better range, and with this range should come a new sight. A scope or holographic site would be ideal. The fact that A. it needs to ramp up to do its dmg and B. if your not carefull it will blow up in your face justifies either a dmg buff or removing/shorting the ramp up time. I for one would rather have a Mega Pulse rifle tho :)

My fear is that if they do one thing at a time it's going to take many months (or even unitl the next major update) before the LR can compete with the TAC. I think they should take care of the sight as soon as humanly possible, and then they should have some internal testing with a full TAC team vs. a full LR team (with mixed gear). When the LR's have been tweaked to the point they aren't getting completely decimated in the internal tests, that would be a good time to release the fixes.

Also, ditching the ramp up damage is a priority. The damage of the beam should be stable to be on even terms with the other guns.

nothing needs to be done, clearly TAR needs to be fixed the LR is just fine.

nothing needs to be done, clearly TAR needs to be fixed the LR is just fine.

nothing needs to be done, clearly TAR needs to be fixed the LR is just fine.

I disagree with this. I want to keep DUST diverse with each weapon being unique not just reskinned ARs. I like the damage build up mechanic. The devs just need to tweak the numbers until it is balanced.

As a few people have said here CCP *needs* to start tweaking things one by one rather than in great swathes of changes. This method could be vulnerable to cunning metagamers that try to skew the statistics but I think DUST is big enough to be able to avoid this.

In my opinion they need to fix the LR sight first and then see what happens. Then if necessary boost the damage or range or...

Also, ditching the ramp up damage is a priority. The damage of the beam should be stable to be on even terms with the other guns.

There's been a pretty consistent consensus in this thread about how to resolve what is currently a pretty homogenous usage of weapons in dust. In my experience when there is this much consensus something is pretty obviously broken but The stats on weapon usage are there for the devs to see if they are questioning if this is a real issue or just a bunch of laser fanboys QQing. It would just be nice to at least have a "we are looking into it" from a dev.

Sights are the biggest issue. I wanna know how many problems will be solved by the sights being improved. Don't remove the glow, either. Reduce it. I don't know about damage, right now. Hard to properly say until the sights are properly addressed. Same with the TAR. The damage should be fine. 17 instead of the 15 is normally was.



Woefully bad idea. Weapon diversity is one of Dust's major issues. Making it a differently skinned AR would be pointless. The mechanic works. The sights need addressing before anything else.

I want to know how many of the lasers issues will be solved by better sights and the TAR not being insanely OP. When those 2 things happen, we will know what works and what doesn't. Right now, it's looked at purely as a countermeasure for something that is broken.

Ok lets do something constructive here.
I haven't fully tested the LR, but I'm pretty sure most people that used the LR in Uprising would agree, the LR requires adjustements.

Here are my suggestions/requests:

1- Range: increase the effective range to me would be a good counter to tac AR. Refer to this post for more discussions on the topic.

2- Overheat: at lower lever the LR is barely usable, it overheats really too fast. I am lvl 5 now and it is not even near the level 1 in chromosone. I would suggest decreasing the heat built up just a little but never at the level of chromosone.

3- Sight: we all know that someday we may be able to change the sight of our weapon, however the actual sight on the LR is not ideal for this type of weapon. I am requesting to change this ASAP. More discussion here and here

4- Damage: with the above adjustement I would wait to touch the damage.

5- Variety: ok this is maybe on the dev roadmap, but some LR variety would be nice. There is actually 3 ISK version and 1 AUR. Compared to the 14 AR available (not counting officer AR) this is... sad. . I would really like to see proficiency variants with longer range, or high damage/high heat built up versions (without going into the scrambler rifles domain of course).
More details: Laser rifles variants

6- Turning speed: As mentionned by few people, the turning speed at ADS is slow. Tracking of heavies is not that hard, but running assaults and logis is quite a challenge. A small thread about it here.

Other discussions:
- Bob Amarrley
- Aisha Ctarl
- SERPENT-Adamapple
- Baal Entreri

Oh! And please CCP, use a scientific approach by changing one thing at the time and ask some feedback between each. This will avoid QQing from the shielded guys...


What do you think?

Edits: few links added and item number 6.

Hey bien merci Laurent, je suis content de savoir qu'un membre du CPM soit d'accord que le laser a besoin d'ajustements. Je vais continuer en anglais.

I cannot completely agree with what you've said Laurent. Chromosome LR was OP for sure. I was using the standard LR at that time and was killing more people than with the Viziam with prof lvl 3 now. Of course, the SS was playing a major role in Chromosome.

Hopefully you'll be able to have a chat with CCP Remnant for this weapon...

I can understand your concern to not over do any changes and turn the LR into an absolute beast, but I'll hazard a guess you were using the Chromosome LR as it was meant to be used. Meaning, you were making sure to engage enemies at it's optimal med. long range where it's damage is at it's best. Any weapon used in it's ideal tactic in adept hands should "APPEAR" to be OP by the target.

In that case I wouldn't say the LR was OP, just used properly. Had you done all of your fights up close against shotguns and AR's I'm sure the LR wouldn't seem very OP.

My point is right now the LR has no optimal. It doesn't shine where it should, fails everywhere else, and is just out-perforemed by everyother weapon.

I can understand your concern to not over do any changes and turn the LR into an absolute beast, but I'll hazard a guess you were using the Chromosome LR as it was meant to be used. Meaning, you were making sure to engage enemies at it's optimal med. long range where it's damage is at it's best. Any weapon used in it's ideal tactic in adept hands should "APPEAR" to be OP by the target.

In that case I wouldn't say the LR was OP, just used properly. Had you done all of your fights up close against shotguns and AR's I'm sure the LR wouldn't seem very OP.

My point is right now the LR has no optimal. It doesn't shine where it should, fails everywhere else, and is just out-perforemed by everyother weapon.

...but still no word on the LR. I'm sure CCP doesn't prioritise responding to nerd raging and threats to quit over civilised and constructive feedback...

Watching.

In my opinion the laser rifle need a complete review, even its aspect should change.

• Charge to shoot
• Range 200 meters
• A good scope
• Fires a single beam, more you charge it more it depletes its battery
• Charging too much acts like hoverheat

It should be like a charge sniper rifle but laser, with a smaller range.

Animation of the shot:

O ------------------------X------------------------
O \\\\\\\\ -----------------X----------------- \\\\\\\\\
O \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ --------X-------- \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
O \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -X- \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

O =shooter
-- = beam
X = center of the beam
\\ = don't consider, used for spacing.

that would defeat the point of being a beam weapon, it would then be a pulse weapon EG scrambler and we have that :P

I'll reiterate and modify some points I've made before.

• In my opinion, the damage increase should be based on the time that the beam is on the target rather than how long you fire it.

In relation to the second point, since this would mean "pre-firing" and "sweeping" would no longer be viable, it would significantly increase the skill ceiling of the weapon.

With that done, you could increase the damage buildup rate, but I would also recommend that they damage bonus have a falloff of half the buildup rate based on how long the beam is off the target.

This would provide a reward for a player with good strafing ability by allowing them to effectively combat a Laser Rifle user without fear of having the beam sweep across them at 90%+ heat and vaporize them instantly.

In relation to the second point, since this would mean "pre-firing" and "sweeping" would no longer be viable, it would significantly increase the skill ceiling of the weapon.

What's wrong Green? You just saw a LR in a game?

I haven't used the LR since the patch, and I was never a habitual LR user, but I have noticed it's absence from the battlefield. I don't think they should kill off the weapon any more than I think the MD I used should have been so badly destroyed, but LR did need a significant nerf pre-patch. Anyone suggesting lasers should go back to this level is asking for something comparable in damage potential to the present TAR which everyone (including the LR user) is complaining about. Essentially, I think everyone needs to finally acknowledge it was OP before and make suggestions (e.g. the iron sights issue) that bring it more into balance, as opposed to returning it to it's former level.

It also looks ridiculous when the laser sudden drops off a meter from your face.

Don't have experience to comment on the laser's new design but in Chromosome I always laughed when people would fire at me, the laser would end 4-5 meters from me, and they'd hold the trigger down while running at me like some sort of jousting knight.

It can have one of two effects. First it's either an intense moment where you can "see" the bullet inches from your face and you go "holy crap that was close!", or it's no where near you and you laugh at the guy wiggling around a laser hoping for a hit.

Otherwise all I can add is that I haven't seen a laser in a couple weeks. I've seen more plasma cannon kills.

Don't have experience to comment on the laser's new design but in Chromosome I always laughed when people would fire at me, the laser would end 4-5 meters from me, and they'd hold the trigger down while running at me like some sort of jousting knight.

It can have one of two effects. First it's either an intense moment where you can "see" the bullet inches from your face and you go "holy crap that was close!", or it's no where near you and you laugh at the guy wiggling around a laser hoping for a hit.

Otherwise all I can add is that I haven't seen a laser in a couple weeks. I've seen more plasma cannon kills.

I've been killed by lasers.. twice I think since uprising launched.

How many times have you guys been killed by a LR since uprising?

I actually like the balance of the "pre-firing" and sweeping mechanism. It forces you to pop out of cover and linger for a while with a big beam revealing your location while you stand stationary. It makes you very vulnerable to snipers or people flanking you and is a nice "long burst" counterpoint to the "short bursts" mechanism of most weapons. It creates variety and tactical interest. I do think it was too easy to get a kill in chromosome with the sweep though, but you had to time things correctly or you'd overheat. It incentivized flirting with that line of overheating which is also an interesting mechanism.

Great, it's in the Dev weekly feedback/suggestion topic.

Great, it's in the Dev weekly feedback/suggestion topic.

[FEEDBACK] Laser Rifles in Uprising: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=77908
Update: There are more laser rifle variants coming, and we are working on fixing ADS issues.

Update: There are more laser rifle variants coming, and we are working on fixing ADS issues.

i wonder what the new varieties are! I wasn't really thinking about that. anyone got any cool theories for LR variants?

Ok lets do something constructive here.
I haven't fully tested the LR, but I'm pretty sure most people that used the LR in Uprising would agree, the LR requires adjustements.

Here are my suggestions/requests:

1- Range: increase the effective range to me would be a good counter to tac AR. Refer to this post for more discussions on the topic.

2- Overheat: at lower lever the LR is barely usable, it overheats really too fast. I am lvl 5 now and it is not even near the level 1 in chromosone. I would suggest decreasing the heat built up just a little but never at the level of chromosone.

3- Sight: we all know that someday we may be able to change the sight of our weapon, however the actual sight on the LR is not ideal for this type of weapon. I am requesting to change this ASAP. More discussion here and here

4- Damage: with the above adjustement I would wait to touch the damage.

5- Variety: ok this is maybe on the dev roadmap, but some LR variety would be nice. There is actually 3 ISK version and 1 AUR. Compared to the 14 AR available (not counting officer AR) this is... sad. . I would really like to see proficiency variants with longer range, or high damage/high heat built up versions (without going into the scrambler rifles domain of course).
More details: Laser rifles variants

6- Turning speed: As mentionned by few people, the turning speed at ADS is slow. Tracking of heavies is not that hard, but running assaults and logis is quite a challenge. A small thread about it here.

Other discussions:
- Bob Amarrley
- Aisha Ctarl
- SERPENT-Adamapple
- Baal Entreri

Oh! And please CCP, use a scientific approach by changing one thing at the time and ask some feedback between each. This will avoid QQing from the shielded guys...


What do you think?

Edits: few links added and item number 6.