DUST Search - Laser rifle - A constructive discussion

TonYtigr wrote:

Ok lets do something constructive here.
I haven't fully tested the LR, but I'm pretty sure most people that used the LR in Uprising would agree, the LR requires adjustements.

Here are my suggestions/requests:

1- Range: increase the effective range to me would be a good counter to tac AR. Refer to this post for more discussions on the topic.

2- Overheat: at lower lever the LR is barely usable, it overheats really too fast. I am lvl 5 now and it is not even near the level 1 in chromosone. I would suggest decreasing the heat built up just a little but never at the level of chromosone.

3- Sight: we all know that someday we may be able to change the sight of our weapon, however the actual sight on the LR is not ideal for this type of weapon. I am requesting to change this ASAP. More discussion here and here

4- Damage: with the above adjustement I would wait to touch the damage.

5- Variety: ok this is maybe on the dev roadmap, but some LR variety would be nice. There is actually 3 ISK version and 1 AUR. Compared to the 14 AR available (not counting officer AR) this is... sad. Sad

. I would really like to see proficiency variants with longer range, or high damage/high heat built up versions (without going into the scrambler rifles domain of course).
More details: Laser rifles variants

6- Turning speed: As mentionned by few people, the turning speed at ADS is slow. Tracking of heavies is not that hard, but running assaults and logis is quite a challenge. A small thread about it here.

Other discussions:
- Bob Amarrley
- Aisha Ctarl
- SERPENT-Adamapple
- Baal Entreri

Oh! And please CCP, use a scientific approach by changing one thing at the time and ask some feedback between each. This will avoid QQing from the shielded guys... Big smile

What do you think?

Edits: few links added and item number 6.

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Your Absolut End SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 91	Posted - 2013.06.05 08:58:00 - [91] - Quote Pseudonym0 wrote: I haven't used the LR since the patch, and I was never a habitual LR user, but I have noticed it's absence from the battlefield. I don't think they should kill off the weapon any more than I think the MD I used should have been so badly destroyed, but LR did need a significant nerf pre-patch. Anyone suggesting lasers should go back to this level is asking for something comparable in damage potential to the present TAR which everyone (including the LR user) is complaining about. Essentially, I think everyone needs to finally acknowledge it was OP before and make suggestions (e.g. the iron sights issue) that bring it more into balance, as opposed to returning it to it's former level. I don't think the LR in chromosome was OP. The problem on chromosome were the small ambush maps and the sharp-shooter skill. Just remember manus peak: There was simply no spot where you could not reach the enemy, and most of the time when you got them they were in your optimal range. I can't mention this point to much, you were nearly everywhere in it's OPTIMAL range. The weapon itself was never OP, but the maps were the big problem, to gether with the SS-skill. And on top of this we had millions of people complaining about it who never used it. Even in chromosome u needed some RL-skills to succeed with the LR. Im talking about all the other maps. So, now we don't have the SS-Skill anymore, and the maps are way bigger. With this in mind, you could implement the LR from chromosome into uprising 1 to 1. The LR has to be a beast, if it is fully heated and you are in it's optimal range. It HAS to be, there is no way around, simply because of the fact that the LR besides it's optimal range is absoloutely useless. Like I offered before. Implement the old LR, also with the old sights and than let's see how it works. I think alot of people will be surprised how well balanced the LR in reality all the time was.
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1455	Posted - 2013.06.05 12:43:00 - [92] - Quote I had to respec to an AR build. Prior to the respec I ran proto Amarr Assault, Viziam, Laser Prof 5. Even with 3 complex damage mods on top it was very difficult to employ. Over time I became an armor tanking SMG user, so I had to respec to logi / AR to get stuff done. Some thoughts : Heat Management was handled well by Amarr Assault 5, it does make quite a difference compared to using an unbonused suit. Damage output is pretty low in general, even at optimal range you can't trade shots and win. Only by hunting stragglers who I could catch unawares did I have any success at all. Running in squad or team where I couldn't always maneuver to my optimal I would end up using the SMG or running closet logi for the fight. Range was the real killer. Not being able to engage targets at range, or getting outranged by tac ars, and at close range the damage output is next to nil. In conclusion the laser as it stands now is all disadvantages. Unemployable.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 786	Posted - 2013.06.05 13:53:00 - [93] - Quote Vile Heathen wrote: It also looks ridiculous when the laser sudden drops off a meter from your face. Don't have experience to comment on the laser's new design but in Chromosome I always laughed when people would fire at me, the laser would end 4-5 meters from me, and they'd hold the trigger down while running at me like some sort of jousting knight. It can have one of two effects. First it's either an intense moment where you can "see" the bullet inches from your face and you go "holy crap that was close!", or it's no where near you and you laugh at the guy wiggling around a laser hoping for a hit. Otherwise all I can add is that I haven't seen a laser in a couple weeks. I've seen more plasma cannon kills.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 546	Posted - 2013.06.05 14:09:00 - [94] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: Vile Heathen wrote: It also looks ridiculous when the laser sudden drops off a meter from your face. Don't have experience to comment on the laser's new design but in Chromosome I always laughed when people would fire at me, the laser would end 4-5 meters from me, and they'd hold the trigger down while running at me like some sort of jousting knight. It can have one of two effects. First it's either an intense moment where you can "see" the bullet inches from your face and you go "holy crap that was close!", or it's no where near you and you laugh at the guy wiggling around a laser hoping for a hit. Otherwise all I can add is that I haven't seen a laser in a couple weeks. I've seen more plasma cannon kills. Plasma Cannon is its own special brand of hilarious. I've been killed by lasers.. twice I think since uprising launched. I credit some of this to people jumping ship on lasers, and another big chunk to lasers losing their niche being outranged/matched by TARs. The sight issue on a long-range weapon also seems.. problematic.
Vile Heathen Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 457	Posted - 2013.06.05 15:51:00 - [95] - Quote Rynx Sinfar wrote: Vile Heathen wrote: It also looks ridiculous when the laser sudden drops off a meter from your face. Don't have experience to comment on the laser's new design but in Chromosome I always laughed when people would fire at me, the laser would end 4-5 meters from me, and they'd hold the trigger down while running at me like some sort of jousting knight. It can have one of two effects. First it's either an intense moment where you can "see" the bullet inches from your face and you go "holy crap that was close!", or it's no where near you and you laugh at the guy wiggling around a laser hoping for a hit. Otherwise all I can add is that I haven't seen a laser in a couple weeks. I've seen more plasma cannon kills. The funniest instance of this is when someone is lasering you and they don't realize they're not hitting you. And then you retaliate with you own laser which (in the chromosome build), had a higher sharpshooter proficiency.
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.06.05 18:12:00 - [96] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: I've been killed by lasers.. twice I think since uprising launched. I think I've only been killed once since uprising, I was wearing a basic Amarr Assault with a small shield tank shooting at him with a mid-level SR. He killed me with a Viziam and I got him down to almost 0 health (with sloppy shooting while he was doing a great job of keeping me in the beam) my squadmate killed him less than a second after I died. He definitely earned that kill. How many times have you guys been killed by a LR since uprising?
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 494	Posted - 2013.06.05 19:51:00 - [97] - Quote The increased damage at range is due to better focus, so range could be buffed by having damage fade out past optimal. So the optimal band could be in the same spot, but there would be area of decreasing damage few dozen meters past optimal. The laser rifle is a beam laser, that by eve lore should out range plasma and pulse laser weapons. In eve the range is doubled. So, adding the decreasing damage currently before optimal after optimal as well would bring it inline with eve lore and help give it a role in the fps. chromosome range was laser optimal 61-78 and max 81m without sharpshooter skills change to optimal 61-78 and max 139m with damage falling off from optimal in both directions for comparison Douvelle Tactical Assault Rifle 1-79 optimal and max 122m by chromosome tests exile ar 1-38 optimal and max 64m by tests in uprising build The old build laser rifle sight was fine, not fan of the new one. The damage increase while on target would not be good for ai for reasons given above. It could be great for the heavy av version though. av beam heavy weapon idea 2/3 speed of damage ramp and heat build up with 50% larger clip, have the damage also ramp while on target. This would make it slightly less effective vs infantry since the combined ramp would be less in most cases, but allow damage to quickly increase when held on larger target to av levels. It would also be unfortunate for any infantry that ran through the beam when firing on shield tank. Values would have to be adjusted by playtest but sounds like an interesting starting point to me.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 882	Posted - 2013.06.05 23:03:00 - [98] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: How many times have you guys been killed by a LR since uprising? I'd say about 4-6 times. It's always been in a laser duel, when I made the switch to the SCR I've never lost a fight with a LR. the LR can't compete with the alpha of the SCR or the DPS/rang of the tac. It's a useless weapon.
TV Repair Guy DUST University Ivy League 6	Posted - 2013.06.05 23:33:00 - [99] - Quote I've been killed by it maybe once or twice since release. I used the optional respec to get away from laser rifles, they're complete garbage now. The assault rifle is already the popular choice in any shooter, but the other weapons in Uprising so are underwhelming that the AR is completely dominant. I saw far more diversity in Chromosome, and it made for a more interesting game. CCP: Buff the laser rifle, and restore the old iron sights so people can aim.
gil pilferer The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2	Posted - 2013.06.06 03:28:00 - [100] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: In relation to the second point, since this would mean "pre-firing" and "sweeping" would no longer be viable, it would significantly increase the skill ceiling of the weapon. I actually like the balance of the "pre-firing" and sweeping mechanism. It forces you to pop out of cover and linger for a while with a big beam revealing your location while you stand stationary. It makes you very vulnerable to snipers or people flanking you and is a nice "long burst" counterpoint to the "short bursts" mechanism of most weapons. It creates variety and tactical interest. I do think it was too easy to get a kill in chromosome with the sweep though, but you had to time things correctly or you'd overheat. It incentivized flirting with that line of overheating which is also an interesting mechanism. +1 I loved the sweeping mechanic in chromosome, and the risk vs reward which is what makes eve/dust so appealing to me in the first place. I realise it was op but it only needed a small tweak. As for weather the issues would have been resolved by bigger maps and losing sharpshooter it's hard to say, but I would be interested to hear or see how the chromosome LR would fare in the current dust climate. A test server like they have on eve to try out changes before implementing them would be cool, although I suspect that dust doesn't have to population to support it.

martinofski Les Rebelles A Qc 170	Posted - 2013.06.06 13:16:00 - [101] - Quote Great, it's in the Dev weekly feedback/suggestion topic.
Green Living PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 389	Posted - 2013.06.06 18:50:00 - [102] - Quote martinofski wrote: Great, it's in the Dev weekly feedback/suggestion topic. Great news, finally!
TonYtigr Les Rebelles A Qc 30	Posted - 2013.06.06 22:09:00 - [103] - Quote martinofski wrote: Great, it's in the Dev weekly feedback/suggestion topic. Link please Edit: forget it.... Found Quote: [FEEDBACK] Laser Rifles in Uprising: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=77908 Update: There are more laser rifle variants coming, and we are working on fixing ADS issues. Great news
gil pilferer The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2	Posted - 2013.06.07 00:08:00 - [104] - Quote Quote: Update: There are more laser rifle variants coming, and we are working on fixing ADS issues. It's so reassuring to know that CCP are looking into it and I can't wait to hear more about what's planned. I just hope "ADS issues" refers to a new sight as well as improving the tracking speed. i think that would be enough of a start to then take stock and see how the LR fares. the damage / range numbers can then be tweaked pretty easily if it's still off. Also i wonder what the new varieties are! I wasn't really thinking about that. anyone got any cool theories for LR variants? THANKYOU CCP
KrazyEyeKilla Greek Death Squad 11	Posted - 2013.06.07 09:36:00 - [105] - Quote This is something that is needed.
BangBang Chuck Les Rebelles A Qc 7	Posted - 2013.06.07 18:17:00 - [106] - Quote +1
Full Metal Kitten Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 764	Posted - 2013.06.07 19:08:00 - [107] - Quote gil pilferer wrote: i wonder what the new varieties are! I wasn't really thinking about that. anyone got any cool theories for LR variants? I know it isn't feasible, but would be cool if you could switch laser crystals for different ranges.
Provolonee Undefined Risk DARKSTAR ARMY 0	Posted - 2013.06.07 23:59:00 - [108] - Quote In Chromosome the lasor was a joy to use, i could put the beam on somebodys tear duct at max range, and hold it there while straffing. It was unique, my friends looking over my shoulder were allways "woah wtf is that gun, its Awesome!" It looked and sounded great using it. I speced into and out of it. (no wep past STD currently) So after the recent Tac nerf I loaded up my Lazoring alt, to see if its better. It is better now that it has its niche back. I have prof level 4 and the viziam. Im using 2x complex dmg mods with it also. My best round with it so far is 8 kills and 30 assists. but most rounds are pretty poor. You need to be in the right place at the right time for it to be effective. I miss the gun alot and i do believe it needs a comeback for the image of Dust. -The viziam in chromozone was OP towards the end of its cycle, I think the others were fine. I think even the damage and range currently are fine. -I think the most important thing to remember was back in Chromo all we had were Caldari assault suits, This gun was the exact counter to shield tanking. It would make it appear OP because nobody had the choice to Armor tank. Even most heavys were in the type 2 suit. It was the counter to everybody, Now that more suits are in, not so much. -I dont think you should nerf a weapon by blocking off a persons abilty to shoot. The sights along with the glare make it a spray and pray. It is at times impossible to even see the person you are shooting at. Im not sure why you even need iron sights on a gun that allready had a lasor sight. Hip fire sensitivity is to high, ADS is to low. (hip fire is also pretty pointless) -The damage seems to be OK, Im not sure you should have to go all the way to Prof level 4 and stack dmg to be able to kill a suit in one magizine though. Wait and see IMO. -It is no longer useable as an area denial tool, The heat build up is to quick to keep the lasor out for long enough to scare anybody. -You cannot use the STD lasor on a MLT light frame, one over heat will blow your head off. on a standard frame you can live through 1, but your gonna be toast soon. -It is still subject to the reload bug, (reload, cant shoot, melee, reload for real this time) happens 3-4 times a match for me. -The beam its self, Cannot be seen while ADS, and it is to thin and not a solid line, So its less awesome. (i can live with it looking less awesome if it works) -I did enjoy doing the pre heat and swipe move, It rewarded pre planning and skill. It made you feel all warm inside just holding down the button. It was a requirement to drop a Proto suit. I know all of this stuff has been mentioned before. I think this game could use a bit more "Unique-Awesome", The lasor was unique to Dust. I have 10 mil SP in my charactors suit, and no SP in its weapon, i want my job back. Thanks CCP I know you will make it right.
RedBleach LeSanglant Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 310	Posted - 2013.06.12 20:28:00 - [109] - Quote Yep, as is the LR is uselss. Thanks OP
RoundEy3 Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 57	Posted - 2013.06.12 20:37:00 - [110] - Quote I've stopped posting on it because they seem to be aware of the issues with it, and many, many people agree. Just waiting for my laser rifles to be a real weapon again...

Sibri Vannikh Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.06.14 06:30:00 - [111] - Quote Please fix it that it becomes what it's supposed to: a LMG. Its optimal range should be about 100 m and the max about 150. Also give it a good ADS like that of the SCR.
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2013.06.19 17:45:00 - [112] - Quote I'm disappointed we haven't seen a fix to the sights. It's been WAY too long for such a simple fix. All they need to do is use the ones from the Scrambler or bring back the old ones, even if it's just temporary until they re-design them (if that's what's holding things up). They also need to tweak the range, and damage too, but FFS CCP at the minimum fix the sights--this should have been done as a hotfix the first week of Uprising. Your LRs are broken and it doesn't take long to grab the resources from your version control and execute a rollback.
Mikael Murray Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.06.21 00:46:00 - [113] - Quote Lazer is in peril right now. Re ballance asap
gil pilferer The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 5	Posted - 2013.06.27 00:45:00 - [114] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=980095#post980095 No mention of the SR sight... I am disappoint
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 265	Posted - 2013.06.27 00:51:00 - [115] - Quote TonYtigr wrote: Ok lets do something constructive here. I haven't fully tested the LR, but I'm pretty sure most people that used the LR in Uprising would agree, the LR requires adjustements. Here are my suggestions/requests: 1- Range: increase the effective range to me would be a good counter to tac AR. Refer to this post for more discussions on the topic. 2- Overheat: at lower lever the LR is barely usable, it overheats really too fast. I am lvl 5 now and it is not even near the level 1 in chromosone. I would suggest decreasing the heat built up just a little but never at the level of chromosone. 3- Sight: we all know that someday we may be able to change the sight of our weapon, however the actual sight on the LR is not ideal for this type of weapon. I am requesting to change this ASAP. More discussion here and here 4- Damage: with the above adjustement I would wait to touch the damage. 5- Variety: ok this is maybe on the dev roadmap, but some LR variety would be nice. There is actually 3 ISK version and 1 AUR. Compared to the 14 AR available (not counting officer AR) this is... sad. . I would really like to see proficiency variants with longer range, or high damage/high heat built up versions (without going into the scrambler rifles domain of course). More details: Laser rifles variants 6- Turning speed: As mentionned by few people, the turning speed at ADS is slow. Tracking of heavies is not that hard, but running assaults and logis is quite a challenge. A small thread about it here. Other discussions: - Bob Amarrley - Aisha Ctarl - SERPENT-Adamapple - Baal Entreri Oh! And please CCP, use a scientific approach by changing one thing at the time and ask some feedback between each. This will avoid QQing from the shielded guys... What do you think? Edits: few links added and item number 6. From a full time user of the LR back in chromosome, and also from uprising. THIS MAKES SENSE CCP
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 61	Posted - 2013.07.13 13:48:00 - [116] - Quote I don't mean to keep QQing, but CCP--this is getting ridiculous. FFS give us working sights (roll-back the original ones, or give us the scrambler version as a temporary fix at the very least). This should have been done so long ago. Getting your existing weapons to the point they are viable options should be a priority over adding extra crap like Commando suits.
Orion Vahid DUST University Ivy League 53	Posted - 2013.07.13 14:02:00 - [117] - Quote I'm not a LR user, but I can tell something is very wrong with LRs because I see NOBODY using them. I'm serious, about a month after Uprising I didn't find a single person running LRs. As a HMG Heavy I kinda miss shitting my pants when getting hit by lazors
WeapondigitX V7 Planetary Response Organization 30	Posted - 2013.07.14 06:57:00 - [118] - Quote Since the 1.3 patch I have used the basic laser rifle with 2 complex damage mods a bit more. I have found some success with the weapon. However: The sights are still horrible (I think the blue glow when in ADS may have been removed). The weapon does very good damage at extreme ranges however loses damage by alarming amounts as range of your targets decreases and beyond a certain range the damage starts to drop off again. What the laser rifle needs: Needs a scope or much larger zoom while in ADS like in chromosome. It is very hard to aim with the laser rifle currently and the current iron sights does obstruct my view a little. The start of the optimal range (at which the damage done is maximum) needs to be reduced (moved further towards the weapon user). The point when damage starts to drop as range increases needs to be increased so that point is further away from the weapon user. (example: optimal range of scrambler pistol might be 15m to 30m, now changed to, 10m to 50m) This example is meant to add clarity to what I am saying only.


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