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TonYtigr
Rebelles A Quebec
Orion Empire
15
   |
Posted - 2013.05.15 22:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok lets do something constructive here.
I haven't fully tested the LR, but I'm pretty sure most people that used the LR in Uprising would agree, the LR requires adjustements.
Here are my suggestions/requests:
1- Range: increase the effective range to me a good counter to tac AR. Refer to this post for more discussions on the topic.
2- Overheat: at lower lever the LR is barely usable, it overheats really too fast. I am lvl 5 now and it is not even near the level 1 in chromosone. I would suggest decreasing the heat built up just a little but never at the level of chromosone.
3- Sight: we all know that someday we may be able to change the sight of our weapon, however the actual sight on the LR is not ideal for this type of weapon. I am requesting to change this ASAP. More discussion here.
4- Damage: with the above adjustement I would wait to touch the damage.
5- Variety: ok this is maybe on the dev roadmap, but some LR variety would be nice. There is actually 3 ISK version and 1 AUR. Compared to the 14 AR available (not counting officer AR) this is... sad.  . I would really like to see proficiency variants with longer range, or high damage/high heat built up versions (without going into the scrambler rifles domain of course).
Oh! And please CCP, use a scientific approach by changing one thing at the time and ask some feedback between each. This will avoid QQing from the shielded guys... 
What do you think? |
Full Metal Kitten
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
317
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 01:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
I was a part time LR user in Chromosome. I had SS Proficiency 3 so all ranges are disappointing now, but I be adapting. More than anything I want the old sighting mechanic back. It was much easier to track my target because I could see where he was moving. Now the ADS blocks my view. Damage application requires you stay on your target, so this is problematic.
Overheat and the "hey here I am!" trail of the laser is the balance, not difficult sighting. Thanks in advance, CCP!  |
Starne
Planetary Response Organization
5
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 01:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
i think its time we took a new approch to the LR. im thinking that it would be cool to have some high rate of fire LR like the ones that are already in place. but also some that are semi auto that you fire and have a cool down ( like rockets) where you must wait to refire but have the shot be vary damaging and produce high heat biuld up. say 3 to 4 shots in a row before over heating with higher meta levels ( adv, pro) having less heat per shot. and the same if not more range as a tac ar. what do you think? |
TonYtigr
Rebelles A Quebec
Orion Empire
15
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 02:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Starne wrote:i think its time we took a new approch to the LR. im thinking that it would be cool to have some high rate of fire LR like the ones that are already in place. but also some that are semi auto that you fire and have a cool down ( like rockets) where you must wait to refire but have the shot be vary damaging and produce high heat biuld up. say 3 to 4 shots in a row before over heating with higher meta levels ( adv, pro) having less heat per shot. and the same if not more range as a tac ar. what do you think?
This could be like a ''breach'' variant. Although it must not fall into the same gameplay as a scrambler rifle.
I've played with the viziam tonight and it can be quite good in some maps. Playing defensive on open areas is nice. I'm playing with 2 complex damage and at prof lvl 3. |
J Lav
Opus Arcana
Orion Empire
68
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 12:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm at prof lvl 4, and even with 3 complex damage mods I will tell you plain and simple - there is no place for the Laser Rifle on the field anymore.
I've tried to make it work, I really have. But take a close look at it:
It does 20-50% damage at it's reasonable range. That is where you can make out someone's head through the awful sight they gave it.
The cheapest TAC AR does 3 times the damage, longer range, more damage up close and comes with a better sight... That's right, get closer to a laser, and somehow the heat dissipates...
Before, it took skill to charge up the heat on a laser, and then hit someone with it, or to track your target. Now, you've got the worlds worst sight, with a crazy blue haze that blocks your view, trying to shoot at people who are like the size of ants on the screen, and track them with sluggish controls. Oh, and to make it even better, your targets all have longer range and do a crap load more damage.
Much Needed improvements:
-Less heat accumulation! -I can't even kill someone before overheating when I do track them - with lvl 4 lsr.
-Make it actually heat up when not on the target.
-Fix close range damage -Why in the world would a laser lose its effect up close?
-Fix the horrible sights
-Damage - like above, is probably okay if you fix the others. |
Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
225
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 12:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
LR needs:
17.7 damage at advanced
18.5 damage at proto
revome of the glow during ADS
this would bring the scaling inline with other weapons which also get damage increase on higher meta level. damage would be still 15% weaker than prenerf viziam.
and TAR has to be nerfed, TAR makes the LR obsolete. |
semperfi1999
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
449
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 13:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Laser rifle does need some adjustments and I agree with at least some of the OP proposals.
#1 Range needs to be increased......it needs to minimally have the same max range as the tac rifle and I would say that a tad bit more probably wouldnt hurt.
#2 optimal needs to be better. Put optimal from 60-max range (probably around 105 meters for max range)
#3 The sight on the LR needs to be the same as the sight on the scrambler (this only makes sense as its the same race)
Do these things and you will see the noob TAC users cry tears here on the forums. While those who know anything about weapon balance would appreciate these adjustments since the laser was nerfed to the ground. I would not change anything further on the LR without it being in service for a bit to see whether this is enough to balance it out (I suspect it is). |
Green Living
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
222
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 13:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Agreed. Really wish I wouldn't have skilled into the LR as it's complete garbage right now. But I'm going to stick with it as it's the weapon that made me interested in this game. |
Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
The laser rifle is a unique beast. It has several MAJOR downsides:
1. By far the biggest downside to using a laser rifle is that it produces a massive bright colored beam which is essentially a giant arrow pointing at you that almost anyone on the map can see: "laser rifle user here."
2. It builds damage over time, so you've got to be able to not only hit a moving target, but hold the beam on them as they jump, strafe, react etc.
3. It overheats which not only damages you, but also disables your ability to fire while it cools off in the middle of a firefight. Because it does most damage the closer it gets to overheating, players are incentivized to flirt with getting as close to the overheating boundry as possible.
4. Despite the overheat mechanism, it still takes ammo, so you still need to reload.
5. It's useless at close range.
6. It's very weak against armor.
I think all of these things are great. It makes the weapon feel very unique and creates tactical variety on the battlefield, adding to a deeper and more rich gameplay. Having everyone running around with assault rifles is boring, and shallow. Weapons like the laser rifle add depth and dimention. However with all of these very serious negatives, there really needs to be benefits to counterbalance them. I don't want laser rifles to become overpowered, just balanced in a way that keeps them unique and interesting.
1. Laser rifles should have their range significantly boosted so they can effectively counter TAC AR's by outranging them (perhaps to balance this change you could make it require a significant skill point investment to unlock deep in the laser rifle skill tree).
2. Increase damage, but only as it gets closer to overheating (i.e. make the damage output vs time graph a steeper slope). This boosts damage, but is balanced with the increased risk of being exposed from cover for longer periods (with the giant "laser rifle here" sign on your head), and being close to overheating (disabling/damaging you).
If done properly these changes could really boost the weapon (CCP: what percent of kills have been from laser rifles since uprising launched?) to make it viable again, but in a way that keeps the weapon unique and adds to the tactical complexity of the battlefield.
Oh and the sight is absolute ****. Please replace with something that doesn't make the weapon completely unusable, midrange weapons needs to be able to see what they're shooting, especially when they need to keep a bead on their target to do significant damage. |
Herpn Derpidus
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 18:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
i think with All the AR variants and the scrambler rifle the LR really lost its place in the game, this is just me personaly saying this, but either the scrambler rifle or the laser rifle should be unlimited ammo.... i know no one is expecting that but thats just my preference that way the one with unlimited ammo is clearly inferior and the one that has limited will have a big range buff and be overall beter |
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Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 19:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Herpn Derpidus wrote:...Either the scrambler rifle or the laser rifle should be unlimited ammo
The thing about ammo is that it forces dependancies between other players, encourages tactical movement between physical locations on the battlefield. I don't think unlimited ammo would be all that beneficial (as you point out, not many people are clamoring for this) and yet it dumbs down the game a fair bit when people are less dependent on their teammates. I'd also add that I could see ammunition types being added at some time in the future just like in Eve, and this would work against that goal as well by anchoring expectations about ammo and laser weapons.
I do think you're absolutely right that it feels like it's lost it's place. |
Herpn Derpidus
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 19:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Herpn Derpidus wrote:...Either the scrambler rifle or the laser rifle should be unlimited ammo The thing about ammo is that it forces dependancies between other players, encourages tactical movement between physical locations on the battlefield. I don't think unlimited ammo would be all that beneficial (as you point out, not many people are clamoring for this) and yet it dumbs down the game a fair bit when people are less dependent on their teammates. I'd also add that I could see ammunition types being added at some time in the future just like in Eve, and this would work against that goal as well by anchoring expectations about ammo and laser weapons. I do think you're absolutely right that it feels like it's lost it's place.
my idea for adding unlimited ammo for it would be to also nerf the gun be a large amount and hopefully make it less pg and cpu heavy, this would be more for logis because they shouldnt realy be out geting kills and what not but they do wana help support and need to defend themselves, but this would be useful that way we arent eating up our own nano hives, an assualt runing around tryin to kill with an unlimited ammo gun like that would be wasting his time, maybe even make the gun a sidearm too |
ZDub 303
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
145
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 20:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
The range fix should help the LR find its place again.
Right now it only works in its optimal range, but hopefully remnant can add this effective range fix and youll still do fairly decent damage at even very longe ranges (think 80-100m hopefully/eventually).
You wont be able to evaporate people in a second but still soften them up quite a bit.
I think this is the niche that the TAR and the LR are supposed to fill... softening up targets and/or just keeping them scared and away altogether.
However, since ranges are pretty much garbage until the fix is implemented and then tweaked after feedback, the TAR will remain hella OP and the LR essentially useless at long range.
Also I agree, the iron sight is actually pretty bad... the scrambler scope would do wonders on the LR. |
Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 20:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:The range fix should help the LR find its place again.
Right now it only works in its optimal range, but hopefully remnant can add this effective range fix and youll still do fairly decent damage at even very longe ranges (think 80-100m hopefully/eventually).
You wont be able to evaporate people in a second but still soften them up quite a bit.
I think this is the niche that the TAR and the LR are supposed to fill... softening up targets and/or just keeping them scared and away altogether.
However, since ranges are pretty much garbage until the fix is implemented and then tweaked after feedback, the TAR will remain hella OP and the LR essentially useless at long range.
Also I agree, the iron sight is actually pretty bad... the scrambler scope would do wonders on the LR. If the TAR and the LR have the same range, why would anyone choose it over the TAR? The LR has many major drawbacks (as mentioned above), and if it's no better than the TAR in other ways, it's always going to the ugly stepsister. I'd like to see the LR hit out to 120-130ish with max skills (still many times shorter than a sniper rifle, but great at the mid range. The fact that you announce your location for several seconds every time you fire, prevents you from stealing the sniper's thunder, and the weakness at short range limits the weapon's advantage to mid range. |
RedBleach LeSanglant
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
208
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 21:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
+1 to suggestions. Nerfed out of existence a fix to the sight and the overheat adjustment would be great. |
TonYtigr
Rebelles A Quebec
Orion Empire
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 21:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:If the TAR and the LR have the same range, why would anyone choose it over the TAR? The LR has many major drawbacks (as mentioned above), and if it's no better than the TAR in other ways, it's always going to the ugly stepsister. I'd like to see the LR hit out to 120-130ish with max skills--still many times shorter than a sniper rifle, but great at the mid range and farther than a TAR. The fact that you announce your location for several seconds every time you fire, prevents you from stealing the sniper's thunder, and the weakness at short range limits the weapon's advantage to mid range.
You may be right, but if I was in CCP's shoes, I would rather increase the range equal to the Tac AR first and see what happens. Yesterday I played a match with the Viziam in a defensive fashion and was able to pin down some tac AR users. Maybe they were bad, but one of my heavy corpmate flanked them and did a massacre. It is feasible to achieve something, but with a lot of practice and mostly luck.
Actually, after reconsidering all my OP suggestions, the biggest flaw is the sight and the blue haze. The only way i can track a enemy while ADS is looking at their shield bar. When its going down its because I'm at the right spot...
Haven't used the scrambler rifle yet, it seems that this type of sight would be great for LR. Still keep the blue haze, but a bit reduced in intensity. |
KrazyEyeKilla
Greek Death Squad
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 23:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Just removing the iron sights would be a good step. |
Green Living
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
228
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 01:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Back to the top. |
Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 19:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Has there even been confirmation from CCP that the Laser Rifle is broken and that they're looking into ways to improve it? Or is it currently considered to be working as intended?TonYtigr wrote:Haven't used the scrambler rifle yet The scrambler has a really cool feel to it, I think CCP did a great job on the scrambler--it feels very different from the AR but is still fairly competitive at similar ranges. And the sight is great for it. I could see how CCP wants the Laser Rifle to have it's own unique sight, but the SR's sight would be a great starting place for re-working it. |
Ekrano Fergus
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 21:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
The blue haze should be removed. It should not be there if it is actually a laser since there is nothing for the laser to reflect off of at the front of the gun.
If there was a dense fog everywhere then it would be okay to have, but there isn't any so it is unnecessary. |
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CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization
12
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Posted - 2013.05.17 22:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
if the std Lr was not nerfed last build it would have been an effective counter to the tac ar right now.... |
DeadlyAztec11
One-Armed Bandits
Unclaimed.
298
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 04:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
The Standard Laser Rifle is worse than the Militia SMG. At ALL ranges! I remember the weapon I did the best with, was the standard Laser Rifle (I stopped using it 'cause it felt cheap). Though, now it is just a useless weapon that is no more than novelty. I was so disappointed, a different play style, ruined. |
Mr PurpSicle
D3LTA FORC3
Orion Empire
37
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 09:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
ADS sensitivity needs to be up'ed with the LR. Not sure why they reduced it in the first place. Vertical sensitivity is especially bad. Not sure if this is only a problem with the M/KB, as I don't use the DS3. Here's a list of things which I believed need to be fixed with the LR:
1. ADS sensitivity. Return to Chromosome levels.
2. Remove crappy Iron Sights. Use SR AGOC sight. Remove annoying glow in ADS mode.
3. Level all heat build up on all models. Reduce heat build up slightly. Also, damage should be dependent not on continuous fire but on level of heat build up.
4. Damage: STD - 17, ADV - 17.5, PRO - 18. Possibly even make damage levels even.
5. Range. should be made to counter TAR. This depends on what is done, in the future, to the TAR. Maybe LR needs a damage falloff range from something like 80m-120m. |
TonYtigr
Rebelles A Quebec
Orion Empire
17
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 11:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
^
Mr. PurpSicle, I agree on almost everything in your post, but I'm not sure about the damage buff. If the LR gets a AGOC sight + a damage buff, i would be afraid that the LR re-become OP. I would strongly suggest CCP to change the sight first and nothing else. Then see what's happening. Even the blue haze I would keep it as a first step.
When I started in Uprising in my basic LR, I was pissed, especially with the heat built up, then I took the chance to put SP up to lvl 5, the difference is HUGE between the lvl 1 and lvl 5. And this is what I like with this weapon. Now when I run with a std LR or the ELM I can do good things but not as much as with the Viziam, which is a killer when used the right way.
My tips while using the LR.
1- keep your distance! You are not effective below 60m.
2- cover, cover, cover! You shine so much with this weapon you need to hide sometimes
3- Aim steady targets first! These guys are snipers or other LR users....the ones that can shoot you at these distances.
4- look at your heat! Not only that you stop firing for a while, you die from it!
5- look for open areas! Find where the enemy are forced to cross an open area, you'll melt their face off!
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Mr PurpSicle
D3LTA FORC3
Orion Empire
37
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Posted - 2013.05.19 13:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
^
yep were on the same page. the sight needs to be fixed. does the ADS sensitivity seem to low to you. not sure if it's just the KB/M thats just screwed up with it? |
TonYtigr
Rebelles A Quebec
Orion Empire
17
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Posted - 2013.05.19 14:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mr PurpSicle wrote:^
yep were on the same page. the sight needs to be fixed. does the ADS sensitivity seem to low to you. not sure if it's just the KB/M thats just screwed up with it?
True, sensitivity is a bit low and I'm using the DS3. I am guessing that CCP reduced it to avoid the death ray of light that we had in Chromosone. Still, just a little increase in speed wouldn't hurt. I'm gonna test various sentitivity setting with corpmates and see if I can follow runners. |
Green Living
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
247
|
Posted - 2013.05.19 17:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm not having too many problems tracking targets unless I'm shooting into the glare of the light. If shooting into the light it's nigh impossible to see my target with the iron sight obstructing my view. So much for Amar technology. |
NSProxy
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.05.19 18:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
TonYtigr wrote: would strongly suggest CCP to change the sight first and nothing else. Have you used the TAC? I really don't think the LR will hold up against the TAC with just the sight swapped out. I had someone shooting me with a LR from range the other day on my other toon with only about 1,500,000 SP and I should have been long dead (would have been if he'd be using any other weapon). He managed to hit me a lot but couldn't bring me down and I was wearing crap gear. There's more to be concerned about than just the sight. |
TonYtigr
Rebelles A Quebec
Orion Empire
20
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Posted - 2013.05.19 18:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Haven't try the Tac AR, not enough SP to spec into two weapons. All I am saying is that CCP shall change one thing at the time and see the effect of that change, then proceed with another change if required. I do agree that the sight change isn't enought but I suggest they could start from that point.
Your example would mean something if you knew which type of LR the guy was using and how much SP he invested in. With almost no SP in LR and equipped with a std LR, that's is true you can't do much. When we compare the TacAR to LR we shall always compare them with the same SP invested in and using the same metalevel. In fact, right now there is no proficiency level LR, so we can't even trully compare. |
Round3y3
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.05.20 00:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
I agree that the laser rifle needs some work. I am referring to the level 1 version in comparrison to the other lv.1 light assault weapons (assault rifle, scrambler rifle, shotgun).
I tried using it in about 5 matches and it consitently feels useless compared to the other weapons. Even when you do get a solid bead on someone through the peep hole gun sight it seems like you aren't hurting your opponent, but rather letting them know which direction they need to turn to.
I agree with just about everyone else here in what adjustments are needed. Perhaps a faster fire rate would help. Well, faster ammo consumption is how it would be perceived by the player, the beam would stay the same.
Putting my vote out there to please make this a better weapon. |
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