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Green Living
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
333
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Posted - 2013.05.30 01:17:00 -
[61] - Quote
Bump |
gil pilferer
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
2
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Posted - 2013.05.30 02:45:00 -
[62] - Quote
Well it seems the TAR is getting a nerf and the SR is getting a small range buff,( both excellent IMO) but still no word on the LR. I'm sure CCP doesn't prioritise responding to nerd raging and threats to quit over civilised and constructive feedback... |
RoundEy3
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.05.30 15:52:00 -
[63] - Quote
TonYtigr wrote:Hey bien merci Laurent, je suis content de savoir qu'un membre du CPM soit d'accord que le laser a besoin d'ajustements. Je vais continuer en anglais.
I cannot completely agree with what you've said Laurent. Chromosome LR was OP for sure. I was using the standard LR at that time and was killing more people than with the Viziam with prof lvl 3 now. Of course, the SS was playing a major role in Chromosome.
Hopefully you'll be able to have a chat with CCP Remnant for this weapon...
I can understand your concern to not over do any changes and turn the LR into an absolute beast, but I'll hazard a guess you were using the Chromosome LR as it was meant to be used. Meaning, you were making sure to engage enemies at it's optimal med. long range where it's damage is at it's best. Any weapon used in it's ideal tactic in adept hands should "APPEAR" to be OP by the target.
In that case I wouldn't say the LR was OP, just used properly. Had you done all of your fights up close against shotguns and AR's I'm sure the LR wouldn't seem very OP.
My point is right now the LR has no optimal. It doesn't shine where it should, fails everywhere else, and is just out-perforemed by everyother weapon.
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Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
74
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Posted - 2013.05.30 15:58:00 -
[64] - Quote
RoundEy3 wrote:TonYtigr wrote:Hey bien merci Laurent, je suis content de savoir qu'un membre du CPM soit d'accord que le laser a besoin d'ajustements. Je vais continuer en anglais.
I cannot completely agree with what you've said Laurent. Chromosome LR was OP for sure. I was using the standard LR at that time and was killing more people than with the Viziam with prof lvl 3 now. Of course, the SS was playing a major role in Chromosome.
Hopefully you'll be able to have a chat with CCP Remnant for this weapon... I can understand your concern to not over do any changes and turn the LR into an absolute beast, but I'll hazard a guess you were using the Chromosome LR as it was meant to be used. Meaning, you were making sure to engage enemies at it's optimal med. long range where it's damage is at it's best. Any weapon used in it's ideal tactic in adept hands should " APPEAR" to be OP by the target. In that case I wouldn't say the LR was OP, just used properly. Had you done all of your fights up close against shotguns and AR's I'm sure the LR wouldn't seem very OP. My point is right now the LR has no optimal. It doesn't shine where it should, fails everywhere else, and is just out-perforemed by everyother weapon.
Yeah, and seriously this change one thing, wait, change it more or less thing won't work, personally I regret spending ANY skill point into lasers at the moment. I'd rather use this SP for nothing at all than on the lasers. THIS is how bad the LR is right now. |
TonYtigr
Les Rebelles A Qc
28
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Posted - 2013.05.30 21:25:00 -
[65] - Quote
RoundEy3 wrote:TonYtigr wrote:Hey bien merci Laurent, je suis content de savoir qu'un membre du CPM soit d'accord que le laser a besoin d'ajustements. Je vais continuer en anglais.
I cannot completely agree with what you've said Laurent. Chromosome LR was OP for sure. I was using the standard LR at that time and was killing more people than with the Viziam with prof lvl 3 now. Of course, the SS was playing a major role in Chromosome.
Hopefully you'll be able to have a chat with CCP Remnant for this weapon... I can understand your concern to not over do any changes and turn the LR into an absolute beast, but I'll hazard a guess you were using the Chromosome LR as it was meant to be used. Meaning, you were making sure to engage enemies at it's optimal med. long range where it's damage is at it's best. Any weapon used in it's ideal tactic in adept hands should " APPEAR" to be OP by the target. In that case I wouldn't say the LR was OP, just used properly. Had you done all of your fights up close against shotguns and AR's I'm sure the LR wouldn't seem very OP. My point is right now the LR has no optimal. It doesn't shine where it should, fails everywhere else, and is just out-perforemed by everyother weapon.
Well of course I was using the LR as it meant to be and I'm still using it as before. The only difference is that I have proficiency level 3 now, the viziam and 2 complex damage modifier to get the same results that I had with the std LR in chromosome ( was lvl 3 with no complex damage). Now in the best games I may do 17/5 with my 150k ISK setup... In chromosome It was 15k ISK. This is why I'm saying it was OP in Chromosome. I really feel that now we are close to have a fair weapon when compared with equal meta level weapon in their respective area of excellence. To me, to compete against the TAR, which is its direct opponent, the LR requires: 1- a usable sight 2- a slight increase in range 3- a slight decrease in heat build up.
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Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.06.01 18:41:00 -
[66] - Quote
gil pilferer wrote:...but still no word on the LR. I'm sure CCP doesn't prioritise responding to nerd raging and threats to quit over civilised and constructive feedback...
The silence is deafening. I just want to hear them say they realize it's a problem and they're looking into it.
If CCP thinks everything is fine, then they need to do a lot more internal testing, because a full squad of LRs will get completely decimated by a full squad of any other weapon--not even close.
They need to run some SQL queries on their database to see percent of kills by LR's since Uprising launched. KD ratios of LR users since Uprising. Have someone try to kill a stationary target in good gear before the thing overheats, repeat the exercise with every other weapon out there. |
Green Living
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
339
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Posted - 2013.06.02 00:52:00 -
[67] - Quote
Back up top. Hopefully a reply from (CCP) Remnant about the sorry state of my weapon of choice. |
Templar Renegade200
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.06.02 01:06:00 -
[68] - Quote
I used the tier 1 BPO laser rifle without any SP invested into it and think it's awesome. I don't understand why you people think otherwise. |
TonYtigr
Les Rebelles A Qc
29
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Posted - 2013.06.02 01:46:00 -
[69] - Quote
Do you put some point into Amaar assault dropsuit? This would give you some heat built up reduction. Have you used the LR during Chromosome? How did you found the sight while ADS? |
Green Living
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
341
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Posted - 2013.06.03 23:47:00 -
[70] - Quote
Back up Top. Remnant has commented on other weapon threads. How about the Laser Rife? |
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4865
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Posted - 2013.06.04 07:52:00 -
[71] - Quote
Watching. |
XXfootnoteXX
DUST University Ivy League
332
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Posted - 2013.06.04 10:08:00 -
[72] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Watching.
Are the Dev's? |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1812
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Posted - 2013.06.04 11:55:00 -
[73] - Quote
I'll reiterate and modify some points I've made before.
- The Laser Rifle needs some kind of scope, preferably the camera-scope it had before.
- In my opinion, the damage increase should be based on the time that the beam is on the target rather than how long you fire it.
In relation to the second point, since this would mean "pre-firing" and "sweeping" would no longer be viable, it would significantly increase the skill ceiling of the weapon.
With that done, you could increase the damage buildup rate, but I would also recommend that they damage bonus have a falloff of half the buildup rate based on how long the beam is off the target.
This would provide a reward for a player with good strafing ability by allowing them to effectively combat a Laser Rifle user without fear of having the beam sweep across them at 90%+ heat and vaporize them instantly. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
143
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Posted - 2013.06.04 12:20:00 -
[74] - Quote
In my opinion the laser rifle need a complete review, even its aspect should change.
- Charge to shoot
- Range 200 meters
- A good scope
- Fires a single beam, more you charge it more it depletes its battery
- Charging too much acts like hoverheat
It should be like a charge sniper rifle but laser, with a smaller range.
Animation of the shot:
O ------------------------X------------------------ O \\\\\\\\ -----------------X----------------- \\\\\\\\\ O \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ --------X-------- \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ O \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -X- \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
O =shooter -- = beam X = center of the beam \\ = don't consider, used for spacing. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1814
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Posted - 2013.06.04 12:26:00 -
[75] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:In my opinion the laser rifle need a complete review, even its aspect should change.
- Charge to shoot
- Range 200 meters
- A good scope
- Fires a single beam, more you charge it more it depletes its battery
- Charging too much acts like hoverheat
It should be like a charge sniper rifle but laser, with a smaller range. Animation of the shot: O ------------------------X------------------------ O \\\\\\\\ -----------------X----------------- \\\\\\\\\ O \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ --------X-------- \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ O \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -X- \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ O =shooter -- = beam X = center of the beam \\ = don't consider, used for spacing. I don't know about all that.... |
matsumoto yuichi san
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
5
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Posted - 2013.06.04 12:50:00 -
[76] - Quote
that would defeat the point of being a beam weapon, it would then be a pulse weapon EG scrambler and we have that :P
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1814
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Posted - 2013.06.04 12:51:00 -
[77] - Quote
matsumoto yuichi san wrote:that would defeat the point of being a beam weapon, it would then be a pulse weapon EG scrambler and we have that :P
Exactly. |
RoundEy3
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2013.06.04 13:19:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:I'll reiterate and modify some points I've made before.
- In my opinion, the damage increase should be based on the time that the beam is on the target rather than how long you fire it.
In relation to the second point, since this would mean "pre-firing" and "sweeping" would no longer be viable, it would significantly increase the skill ceiling of the weapon. With that done, you could increase the damage buildup rate, but I would also recommend that they damage bonus have a falloff of half the buildup rate based on how long the beam is off the target. This would provide a reward for a player with good strafing ability by allowing them to effectively combat a Laser Rifle user without fear of having the beam sweep across them at 90%+ heat and vaporize them instantly.
On that point I don't believe that would be a good idea technically. It could work, but it would seem they'd have to re-tool most of the weapon's #'s and function.
Also, every time your beam slipped off of your target you would lose the bonus to damage. It doesn't matter how good you are, unless your target is standing still your aim transitions from on and off the target frequently even if only for a brief moment.
Purely speaking of damage delivery I think they just need to recalculate the outright damage vs. damage amplification vs. heat build rate for LR's of all lv's.
Sweeping is what makes the LR unique and fun, just needs to be worked on along with the sights and range issues as well.
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WeapondigitX V7
Planetary Response Organization
8
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Posted - 2013.06.04 13:21:00 -
[79] - Quote
I agree, the laser rifle does need to have the same damage but build up more damage quicker than it currently does while firing. And fix the sights the laser rifle has. The laser rifle sights was fine in chromosome (which was no sights) or put the scrambler rifle sights on it. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
144
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Posted - 2013.06.04 13:35:00 -
[80] - Quote
A long range pulse weapon with a beam animation would be awesome. |
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matsumoto yuichi san
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
5
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Posted - 2013.06.04 15:13:00 -
[81] - Quote
in regards to the earlier post about damage build up for on target it is 100% correct this seems ok on paper but ruins the weapon because except for stationary targets the aims slips on and off as you fire and forcing damage reset would be destructive unless damage built up near instantly and then the weapon is silly, and might as well not have the heat up mechanic at all.
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Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.06.04 17:06:00 -
[82] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:In relation to the second point, since this would mean "pre-firing" and "sweeping" would no longer be viable, it would significantly increase the skill ceiling of the weapon. I actually like the balance of the "pre-firing" and sweeping mechanism. It forces you to pop out of cover and linger for a while with a big beam pointing at your location while you stand stationary. It makes you very vulnerable to snipers or people flanking you and is a nice "long burst" counterpoint to the "short bursts" mechanism of most weapons. It creates variety and tactical interest. I do think it was too easy to get a kill in chromosome with the sweep though, but you had to time things correctly or you'd overheat. It incentivized flirting with that line of overheating which is also an interesting mechanism. |
Your Absolut End
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
85
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Posted - 2013.06.04 17:11:00 -
[83] - Quote
I don't feel like retyping it:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=902019#post902019
You guys should know how you ruined that LR, as said in that thread above, the Chromosome LR in Uprising would be nice balance.
Bigger maps, smaller optimal range, the changes CCP did are exactly what the LR in chromosome needed to find it's place. Just bring back the old LR for 1 week and see how it works. |
Green Living
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
341
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Posted - 2013.06.04 20:01:00 -
[84] - Quote
Lots of great ideas in this thread. Back to the top. |
Green Living
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
342
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Posted - 2013.06.05 02:50:00 -
[85] - Quote
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TonYtigr
Les Rebelles A Qc
30
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Posted - 2013.06.05 03:40:00 -
[86] - Quote
What's wrong Green? You just saw a LR in a game? |
Green Living
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
342
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Posted - 2013.06.05 03:43:00 -
[87] - Quote
TonYtigr wrote:What's wrong Green? You just saw a LR in a game?
LOL Never. I only know two other LR users left in this game. |
TonYtigr
Les Rebelles A Qc
30
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Posted - 2013.06.05 03:52:00 -
[88] - Quote
Well.. I converted myself to the MD (I may be stupid or looking for challenges). Anyway, I burn two mercs with my Viziam tonight, it was still nice. I was feeling like a blind, shooting anywhere and waiting until I hear the sound of burning armor plates, telling me I'm on the right spot. |
Pseudonym0
Free Guard of Arrakis
2
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Posted - 2013.06.05 05:26:00 -
[89] - Quote
I haven't used the LR since the patch, and I was never a habitual LR user, but I have noticed it's absence from the battlefield. I don't think they should kill off the weapon any more than I think the MD I used should have been so badly destroyed, but LR did need a significant nerf pre-patch. Anyone suggesting lasers should go back to this level is asking for something comparable in damage potential to the present TAR which everyone (including the LR user) is complaining about. Essentially, I think everyone needs to finally acknowledge it was OP before and make suggestions (e.g. the iron sights issue) that bring it more into balance, as opposed to returning it to it's former level. |
Vile Heathen
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
455
|
Posted - 2013.06.05 06:44:00 -
[90] - Quote
I say approach it scientifically.
For instance, if you're gonna say it takes time to "heat up", then maybe range should increase over time as well?
Also, if you're going to say it has a limited range, it can only be because it's bloomingGÇöa phenomenon where the photons are disrupted and dispersed as the beam ionizes its way through the thick atmosphere. This means as it reaches its effective range, the beam becomes weaker.
And lets face it. It's a goram laser! It's "muzzle velocity" is the fastest possible. It SHOULD shoot as far as a railgun, and certainly the TAR. It also looks ridiculous when the laser sudden drops off a meter from your face.
The blooming would be a great way of balancing it, keeping it from being OP at long range, perhaps only good enough to kill shields, and allow it to be semi-useful at a hip-fire range.
Another thing that could make it more interesting is pulse mode/variant. If you fire a laser in short, fast pulses, the first few pulses "cut a hole" through the atmosphere, allowing the later pulses to reach the target without blooming, hence unlimited range. The photons would hit the target and would cause thermal damage, as well as a shockwave, as the targets atoms evaporate so quicklyGÇösomething the "cutting laser" more doesn't do. This of course would require a massive buildup of power, and the laser rifle would have to be fitted with a capacitor, like the forge gun. But imagine how cool it would sound hearing the capacitor fill up like a camera flash, and a strobed blink of light appears for but half a second, followed by a line of ionized atmosphere which fades away into the wind? |
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