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Why does the entire Logistics class have to be nerfed?

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Terarrim Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 22	Posted - 2013.05.13 13:45:00 - [1] - Quote How dare anyone suggest that my Proto Amarr Logi Suit is better than anything if they havent played it. I am a support logi so far I have spent near 11 million sp and i am currently on a huge nerf compared to last build. I am slower I can only afford level 4 nanos due to pg and cant afford to get level 5 specs in engineering. I didn't have enough to skill up in my main weapon. I had to get the proto suit to even have enough points to get an advanced nano injector, proto repair tool and advanced nano hive. I have to give up allot of speed all my offence at the moment due to unable to afford more than exile and packed av gren when in the last build I used proto on every equipment slot avanced weapon and proto grens for further support to my team. So here are my issues with me: 1. Proto suit has cost me offence and support through proto grens and bpo guns 2. Bright yellow on my suit has made me a target amounst my fellows 3. I am way slower since my suit is slow plus to take advantage of racial bonus I have to have armour to take advantage of repers. 4. I cant afford stamina buffs Sp wise for a long time as I still havent got core skills or maxed my support passives e.g. armor, enginegenering, support, armour reppers (self) or even any type of points in weaponry atm. 5. Even if I was level 5 in nano hives I cant afford to run proto nano injectors or proto nanohives due to having more slots than my assault but less base pg. This is to say nothing of being to use more than advanced weapons or grens. For me as an Amarr Support logi this build has been a massive nerf I am equimpent slots down, and massive PG nerf means I cant support my team like I used to I have to make major sacrifices in offence, support or defence. I don't know about caldari logi's but for me as a support logi as Amarr I have allready had a massive nerf in both pg and skill points I cannot do what I did in chromazone. If assault players are using logi's to do assault by not specing in support and only using slots for pure offence why the hell would one nerf me who is struggling to be anywhere near as efficent on the battlefield as I was before. Before I was good at everything but master at none. Now I am poor at many things and good at one or two things. My logi needs a buff in order to do what the discription says i.e. to be a support character who can dish out the damage. Because as of now I have the least PG, least equipment slots and cost a huge price in SP to make the proto suit work at minimal proto support levels. In order to be a viable support class I had to talk to my clan leader and explain that I would have to be baby sat during engagments as by spending my points in proto logi and proto repair and advanced nanos has severly affected my ability to defend myself against advanced or proto gear players. Nerfing the logi's are going to drive the support logi's out of the game. I want buffs to do my job properly not nerfs that are going to force me to run a severly gimped assault with tiny amount of support.
Terarrim Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 22	Posted - 2013.05.13 14:11:00 - [2] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Terarrim wrote: How dare anyone suggest that my Proto Amarr Logi Suit is better than anything if they havent played it. I am a support logi so far I have spent near 11 million sp and i am currently on a huge nerf compared to last build. I am slower I can only afford level 4 nanos due to pg and cant afford to get level 5 specs in engineering. I didn't have enough to skill up in my main weapon. I had to get the proto suit to even have enough points to get an advanced nano injector, proto repair tool and advanced nano hive. I have to give up allot of speed all my offence at the moment due to unable to afford more than exile and packed av gren when in the last build I used proto on every equipment slot avanced weapon and proto grens for further support to my team. So here are my issues with me: 1. Proto suit has cost me offence and support through proto grens and bpo guns 2. Bright yellow on my suit has made me a target amounst my fellows 3. I am way slower since my suit is slow plus to take advantage of racial bonus I have to have armour to take advantage of repers. 4. I cant afford stamina buffs Sp wise for a long time as I still havent got core skills or maxed my support passives e.g. armor, enginegenering, support, armour reppers (self) or even any type of points in weaponry atm. 5. Even if I was level 5 in nano hives I cant afford to run proto nano injectors or proto nanohives due to having more slots than my assault but less base pg. This is to say nothing of being to use more than advanced weapons or grens. For me as an Amarr Support logi this build has been a massive nerf I am equimpent slots down, and massive PG nerf means I cant support my team like I used to I have to make major sacrifices in offence, support or defence. I don't know about caldari logi's but for me as a support logi as Amarr I have allready had a massive nerf in both pg and skill points I cannot do what I did in chromazone. If assault players are using logi's to do assault by not specing in support and only using slots for pure offence why the hell would one nerf me who is struggling to be anywhere near as efficent on the battlefield as I was before. Before I was good at everything but master at none. Now I am poor at many things and good at one or two things. My logi needs a buff in order to do what the discription says i.e. to be a support character who can dish out the damage. Because as of now I have the least PG, least equipment slots and cost a huge price in SP to make the proto suit work at minimal proto support levels. In order to be a viable support class I had to talk to my clan leader and explain that I would have to be baby sat during engagments as by spending my points in proto logi and proto repair and advanced nanos has severly affected my ability to defend myself against advanced or proto gear players. Nerfing the logi's are going to drive the support logi's out of the game. I want buffs to do my job properly not nerfs that are going to force me to run a severly gimped assault with tiny amount of support. Your problem is not tied to the fact that logi are unbalanced. But to the fact that logi demands a massive SP investment. But i'll return your observation. How can you state things when you only tried Amarr Logi and not Amarr Assault ? And without full skills ? I tried both logi and assaults with full SP at FF. and logi tends to outmatch Assault easily. Why do you think entire corps run logis for all of their assault players now ? And asking for tweaks doesnt mean people want to see logis becoming useless..... But I am running the Amarr medium frame proto and advanced I find that I can run any of my proto equipment without any problems have any armour or shields I want (while running guns with bpo). I find that my KDR is up and my war points are up and here is why: 1. Base hit points are higher 2. Speed is higher meaning i can get back in cover much quicker meaning I die allot less 3. I can easily fit one proto support tool due to extra pg 4. I don't draw attention to myself due to the fact I am using a repping tool, that I am bright yellow or the fact that I am standing over a corpse trying to stab someone for 5 seconds due to the bugged rez system. So yeh my war points and kdr are better with my amarr medium frame having more survivabilty I can chose when and where to engage I am not in the thick of the action dying trying to support team mates with broken or barely funcitoning support tools (rezing and repping are much harder now in this build). Posiibly if I get rid of my equimpent and build an assault logi I would be better due to change of play stile. However your saying nerf the logi based on assault play stile when I am not playing logi as an assault BUT A SUPPORT CHARACTER. So I do now what Im talking about and can see the advatages that the assault class (without even specing into assault just using the medium frames) with having extra base PG and extra bass hitpoints to start.
Terarrim Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 22	Posted - 2013.05.13 14:31:00 - [3] - Quote William HBonney wrote: LittleCuteBunny wrote: A support class should provide support fire and aid players in the battlefield? maybe? Each logistics suit is superior to its counter part in assault This is why assault suits need a buff...we don't need to nerf logistics, changing the racial bonuses to something less ******** would be nice. Logistics suits have better cpu /pg and more slots with better armor Rep and sheild regan and less delay....how is it that the assault suit has less survivability? Sidearms don't mean jack in the current blob warfare. Sidearms are only needed for av users. Apart from amarr who for some reason have worse pg than the assault.
Terarrim Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 23	Posted - 2013.05.13 16:30:00 - [4] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: LittleCuteBunny wrote: A support class should provide support fire and aid players in the battlefield? maybe? Each logistics suit is superior to its counter part in assault It's primarily the Caldari line that's facing a disparity and that's in the racial buffs, those aside here's the breakdown. Caldari Assault More Shields More Armor More Shield Recharge More Movement Speed More Sprint Speed Longer Sprint Duration More Stamina Higher Stamina Recovery Rate Higher Scan Precision Posses a Sidearm Logi More CPU/PG 1 More high and low Amarr Assault More Shields More Shield Recharge More Movement Speed More Sprint Speed Longer Sprint Duration More Stamina Higher Stamina Recovery Rate Higher Scan Precision MORE PG 70 as apposed to 67 Logi More CPU Minmatar Assault More Shields Armor Repair Rate (suit native buff, does not require mods) More Movement Speed More Sprint Speed Longer Sprint Duration More Stamina Higher Stamina Recovery Rate Higher Scan Precision Posses a Sidearm 1 more High Power slot Logi More CPU/PG More Armor More Shield Recharge 2 more Low Power slots Gallente Assault More Shields More Armor More Shield Recharge More Movement Speed More Sprint Speed Longer Sprint Duration More Stamina Higher Stamina Recovery Rate Higher Scan Precision Posses a Sidearm Logi More CPU/PG 1 More Low Power slot Note: Since the concerns raised are about the Logi frame being more effective for an Assault build than the Assault frame I have omitted the Equip slots as none of the fits I'm aware of which push the Logi into a surpassing combat role include the ability to fit more than one Equip slot anyway. So your conclusion is that an additional 1-2 slots and some more CPU/PG at the cost of base shields, base armor, shield recharge rate, base movement speed, base sprint speed, base sprint duration, stamina, stamina recovery, scan precision and a sidearm (Amarr aside, their internal race contrast is different) equates to a straight up better combat fit? Please break it down for me in detail how is this the case? Also bear in mind that a Logi fit with all slots filled by the same mods as it's Assault counterpart will be a more expensive fit (due to fitting additional total mods) so even a theoretical Logi suit with the same stats as an equivalent Assault suit will cost more ISK to field (again disregarding any more than 1 Equp slot on the assumption that this Logi isn't being fit for support or engineering). Cheers, Cross EDIT: Cosgar wrote: William HBonney wrote: LittleCuteBunny wrote: A support class should provide support fire and aid players in the battlefield? maybe? Each logistics suit is superior to its counter part in assault This is why assault suits need a buff...we don't need to nerf logistics, changing the racial bonuses to something less ******** would be nice. Logistics suits have better cpu /pg and more slots with better armor Rep and sheild regan and less delay....how is it that the assault suit has less survivability? Sidearms don't mean jack in the current blob warfare. Sidearms are only needed for av users. Logis need more survivability because they can't repair themselves. They need tank because they stand out as easy targets. Assaults don't need survivability, they need a buff in their primary role: slaying. As far as the sidearm bonus goes, the Minmatar rifle might be a SMG on steroids. It looks like CCP did a lot of groundwork for future additions with Uprising. ^This Further the assumption that more buffer tank = More survivability is oversimplified. Ignoring the effects scanning, speed, regen, and outgoing dps having on survivability is short sighted. If total raw HP totals (including fits) actually equated to the best combat fit everyone who wanted to excel as a 'slayer' would be running Heavy and all the top spots on the kills board would be held by Heavies. Defense is not equal to offense Assaults are slayers, their role calls for them to excel at gank not tank (which to reiterate actually does increase their overall survivability). Fixed the above Amarr Logi's have less pg than the assault variant not more.

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